August 31, 2012

Eric Holder announces the end of "the Obama administration’s limited effort to scrutinize the counterterrorism programs carried out under President George W. Bush."

The NYT reports:
The Justice Department did not say publicly which cases had been under investigation. But officials had previously confirmed the identities of the prisoners: Gul Rahman, suspected of being a militant, who died in 2002 after being shackled to a concrete wall in near-freezing temperatures at a secret C.I.A. prison in Afghanistan known as the Salt Pit; and Manadel al-Jamadi, who died in C.I.A. custody in 2003 at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, where his corpse was photographed packed in ice and wrapped in plastic.

Mr. Holder’s announcement might remove a possible target for Republicans during the presidential campaign. But the decision will disappoint liberals who supported President Obama when he ran in 2008 and denounced what he called torture and abuse of prisoners under his predecessor.
It's one thing to run for office, quite another to occupy it. You can criticize and express all manner of outrage from the sidelines, but when you are on the inside, it's different, and by cycling the Democratic Party into power, the American people got to learn something about what the Bush Administration did. Those who don't like Obama should see the value of what we learned.

50 comments:

shiloh said...

Impeaching cheney/bush or their "associates" would just be a needless distraction as Newt found out when he impeached Clinton.

It's the reality of our political system.

shiloh said...

Prosecuting, not impeaching ...

Shouting Thomas said...

Once again, I'll refer to today's NYT lead editorial, which clearly states that the Obama administration gave up and acceeded to Bush's foreign policy, without admitting same. Really, what else could be done?

The editorial is also filled with bizarre, vindictive barbs aimed at Romney... hardly the sort of behavior you'd expect from the great Paper of Record.

For instance:

Mr. Romney's big speech, delivered in a treacly tone with a strange misty smile on his face suggesting he was always about to burst into tears, was of a piece with the rest of the convention.

Andy R. said...

the American people got to learn something about what the Bush Administration did

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

Colonel Angus said...

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

While Obama used unmanned drones to the same effect.

Then again I don't typically grant terrorists the title of people but I'm discriminating that way.

dbp said...

"Those who don't like Obama should see the value of what we learned"

We already knew that the left's "war crime" hysterics were bullshit, before electing Obama. The sad and pointless thing is that they will never admit they were wrong.

Shouting Thomas said...

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

Somewhere along the line, Andy Santorum, we will have to torture some people to death to save you from the Jihadists.

We will save you, despite your stupidty and ingrate madness.

Americans are good people. No matter how hard you try to defame and alienate them (and you are doing your damnedest), they will still fight like hell to protect you and preserve your rights. Americans will do this even for a destructive, ingrate, spoiled child like you.

God bless America! And, thank you, President Bush.

gregq said...

Andy R. said...

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

Well, if so, the Obama Administration approved of it.

IOW, keep whining, no one cares what you have to say.

Revenant said...

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

In a secret base under the Rose Garden. Dick Cheney worked the testicle clamps himself, I hear.

Michael K said...

Hatboy would certainly have done a better job protecting us from terrorists if he had had the chance.

Maybe.

Maybe not.

He would have been sincere, though.

John Lynch (another) said...

Seems a high price to pay for comity. A lost decade of economic recovery; $5T increased debt (I know: related); worsening of race relations. But hey - now the Dems "own it" on much of the hyperbole vented pre 2009. And those that voted for those reasons can feel better.

chickelit said...

You can criticize and express all manner of outrage from the sidelines, but when you are on the inside, it's different, and by cycling the Democratic Party into power, the American people got to learn something about what the Bush Administration did. Those who don't like Obama should see the value of what we learned.

I'm looking forward to learning the truth about Holder and Fast & Furious when the Republicans recycle back into power.

chickelit said...

Gotta love how the NYT can't focus on the incoming administration and must perpetually look backwards to Bush.

carry on.

blessings, take care

Revenant said...

I'm looking forward to learning the truth about Holder and Fast & Furious when the Republicans recycle back into power.

I wouldn't hold your breath. There may have been SOME presidential administration that spilled the beans about its predecessor's misdeeds, but it hasn't happened in my lifetime.

Comanche Voter said...

Well its a damned high price to pay for the lesson learned. And you can bet your sweet bippy that if Mittens gets into the Oval Office, the Dems will forget everything they learned. They'll be waving the bloody war crime shirt again on oh say, about February 1,2013.

Their memory half life--where political reality is concerned--has the lifespan of a gnat.

Shouting Thomas said...

The more I look at the quote, the stranger it seems:

Mr. Romney's big speech, delivered in a treacly tone with a strange misty smile on his face suggesting he was always about to burst into tears, was of a piece with the rest of the convention.

Isn't this the same paper that is constantly hectoring men to show their emotions? And ridiculing men who subscribe to the John Wayne ethic?

JL said...

"...by cycling the Democratic Party into power, the American people got to learn something about what the Bush Administration did. Those who don't like Obama should see the value of what we learned."

What have we learned that is so valuable that you believe it was worth the risk of putting an inexperienced man with a largely hidden past in the most powerful executive positive in the world?

shiloh said...

chicky, it's "take care, blessings" as again, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

Shouting Thomas said...

What have we learned that is so valuable that you believe it was worth the risk of putting an inexperienced man with a largely hidden past in the most powerful executive positive in the world?

That there's no choice but to get one's hands dirty in the face of terrorists who are determined to destroy you.

You know, that "The Dark Knight Rises" movie is not far off the mark. The terrorists will be back in NYC at some point in the future, this time armed with a nuclear weapon.

Cedarford said...

Andy R. said...
the American people got to learn something about what the Bush Administration did

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

=================
Au contraire, progressive Jewish Andy.
Your radical Muslim freedom fighter heroes torture people to death. America just waterboarded 3 to get information.

After your media brethren went into high moral dungeon about GITMO, tooorrrrrtuuuuuure!, grim "death milestones", and "extrajudicial assassinations"?? All that blather went away when Obama came in and had to choose between cossetting terrorists to please the left...and keeping power and credibility by showing he did take the enemy seriously.

But his pal Eric Holder did not get the message and as pretty well damaged and embarassed Obama by association as pal-ing around with terror extremists, giving the Panthers and incompetent ATF and corrupt bankers like Corzine a pass from prosecution while going after the people that helped get intel from the enemy.

JL said...

That there's no choice but to get one's hands dirty in the face of terrorists who are determined to destroy you.

A lot of people already knew that. And those who thought what Bush did was torture still think it is. The fact that Obama went a step further to actual assassinations resulting in civilian casualties does not guarantee that Dems and their base will not condemn Romney if he continues to do the same.

And those who don't pay attention to politics will ignore this information. IMO, nothing was learned.

Cedarford said...

Shouting Thomas -

The terrorists will be back in NYC at some point in the future, this time armed with a nuclear weapon.

I doubt it.
That was a dishonest Neocon meme.
Meant to scare Americans into starting a series of wars with the enemies of Israel.

The truth is the Islamoids would need to get a weapon from a nation.
If they did...and detonated it or were caught before they could set it off....it would trigger actions we promised the Soviets we would do by the so-called "4th Protocol". Global thermonuclear war aimed at putting the nation that furnished the bomb(s) down for the count.

It is stupid to even think the Constitution and "civilian law enforcement and precious due process rights" would exist for a while.
It would be an existential fight. If we couldn't prove the culprit...no problem. The US nuke bombs would be heading out to end the threat.
I am sure this has been communicated very well to nations we consider a threat that the aftermath of nuke bombs going off in America would not be people performing as lawyers and court warrant judges "investigating the matter for criminal prosecution".

It would be codes, coordinants, people turning the two launch keys or pushing the button on a B-2 to launch the 1st of 15 440KT thermonuclear bombs over the country or suspected countries involved in starting a nuclear war. Done as fast and as devestatingly as possible to ensure we not only deter...but would prevail.




JL said...

"executive positive" should be "executive position"

in my 1:29 post.

Shouting Thomas said...

The truth is the Islamoids would need to get a weapon from a nation.

Hmmm. Have you ever heard of... say...

- Iran
- North Korea
- Pakistan

And, no, they don't have to get a weapon from a nation. Remember that selloff of nuclear material after the Soviet Union expired?

madAsHell said...

limited effort to scrutinize

It's jumbo shrimp all over again!!

dreams said...

Unfortunately, we get all the bad with the little bit of good. Yeah, I guess all is well that ends well is now our best hope.

wyo sis said...

Torturing terrorists is not the same as killing people. And, beyond that torturing has come to mean very little when libs call asking mean questions torture. Just more erosion in the meaning of words.

The Drill SGT said...

the American people got to learn something about what the Bush Administration did. Those who don't like Obama should see the value of what we learned.

duh, no!

Career lawyers in DOJ had already investigated.

What Holder, the soon to be top lawyer, did, was announce before ever seeing the classified case files, that career DOD and CIA officers were guilty of crimes. Then he used the full power of the government to punish those men for 3+ years before walking away from it.

shame.

Beyond that, the whole Obama strategy that avoids gathering live terrorists for their intelligence value and prefers them dead and silent instead, because captive intelligence sources don't fit the plan is criminally dumb

Tom DeGisi said...

I learned that the Democrats cannot meet the minimal job requirement of passing a budget. If your phone company had screwed up your bill for three years would you stick with them? Why didn't Democrats primary Obama? What has destroyed the competenece of leading Democratic politicians, and why hasn't a 'good government' movement arisen in that party? My mind boggles.

Yours,
Tom

Tom DeGisi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bruce Hayden said...

It would be codes, coordinants, people turning the two launch keys or pushing the button on a B-2 to launch the 1st of 15 440KT thermonuclear bombs over the country or suspected countries involved in starting a nuclear war. Done as fast and as devestatingly as possible to ensure we not only deter...but would prevail.

My vote would be launch from a boomer sitting off the coast, which would mean minutes, and not hours, between decision and first strike.

BUT, would President Obama pull the pin, and give the orders? Not really sure there. Remember, it is likely that the people on the receiving end of such a strike would be Muslim, and fighting American imperialism, by their strike against us.

This is one of the reasons that a lot of Americans are more comfortable with Republicans having their finger on the button. Every Republican from Nixon onward would likely have had little hesitation doing what needed to be done. But Carter? Obama? Neither would likely have initiated nuclear retaliation all that quickly. Both dithered when decisive action was called for, and there is little reason to believe that either not hesitate in this scenario.

Tom DeGisi said...

I also learned that although Republicans would go after Nixon, Democrats wouldn't go after Holder, much less Obama.

Yours,
Tom

mccullough said...

The Republicans get credit for consistency in the GWOT. They didn't have a problem with water-boarding under W. and they don't have a problem with drone assasinations of U.S. citizens under Obama.

I can remember when Obama and the Dems kept harping that waterboarding (and Gitmo) would create more terrorists because of the outrage among the muslims. Has any reporter ever asked Obama about how many terrorists the U.S. has created with his drone strikes? Is Gitmo still the recruiting tool it was before Obama was elected?

The Dems will crank up the outrage machine though when Romney keeps the policy intact. Again, we will be creating terrorists.

edutcher said...

It only became "torture" after the Lefties figured they were safe (thank you, Dubya, Darth, Condi, Rummy) and they needed a stick with which to beat the Administration.

shiloh said...

Impeaching cheney/bush or their "associates" would just be a needless distraction as Newt found out when he impeached Clinton.

He did? He got the indictment, didn't he?

Andy R. said...

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

Not according to Eric Holder.

PS It must really be Hell to be a Lefty this week.

The whole "torture" thing goes up in smoke

Isaac is only a minor inconvenience

The Republicans have a great convention

And it comes out the Demos are reduced to handing out tickets to Choomie's big speech in the bars and saloons of Charlotte.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Holder is clearly looking down the road to a Romney administration casting a jaundiced eye on his own activities as AG. Given that Democrat leadership was incontrovertibly informed of Bush's intended interrogation tactics, Holder was pretty much forced to drop the subject. He is counting on Romney's AG being similarly blind to Fast and Furious. The difference is, F & F had no bipartisan support, and it involved actual capital crimes.

Jim S. said...

Yeah, I'm not clear on how "The Bush administration tortured people to death." I presume the torturing refers to the water-boarding, is that right? But there is a very genuine controversy over whether that qualifies as torture -- we do it to our own troops to train them, for example. And, at any rate, we did it to three people, and they're all very much alive, having their special-ordered halal meals and every accommodation you could ask for (except, you know, freedom). So who exactly did the Bush administration torture to death?

mrs whatsit said...

It's hard to believe that anybody is still complaining about the waterboarding that went on under Bush -- horribly uncomfortable, very frightening, I certainly don't want to go through it, but when it's over, you're still alive, breathing and in full possession of all your fingers and toes -- when Obama is shooting drones into countries we aren't at war with to kill people Obama picked out of a deck of baseball cards? We get no intelligence, we understandably infuriate the countries we're attacking, and every drone takes civilians out along with the terrorists. At least one of the people Obama killed this way was an American citizen. He's not an individual whose loss the world should mourn -- but the loss to due process and the rule of law is a different story. Where the hell do hypocritical liberals get off arguing that non-citizens in Guantanamo should get full federal trials, but it's perfectly fine to assassinate an American citizen with no due process at all -- just as long as it's a Democrat who does the killing, preferably one who won the Nobel Peace Prize? The hypocrisy is beyond unbelievable.

Matthew Sablan said...

See, the problem with this reasoning is Reid and Pelosi were in the room when many of the decisions they now claim were horrible were made.

They didn't learn anything new; we just learned how craven they are.

jr565 said...

The Bush administration tortured people to death.

And how much do you want to bet that Andy and those like him will vote for Obama,despite the fact that he dropped all charges, continued with Bush anti terror policies (including keeping guantanamo open, maintaining renditions, upping the drone strikes, in all cases backing keeping states secrets).
There will be little speaking truth to power at all. You guys are frauds Andy, absolute frauds.

jr565 said...

mrswhatsit:

Where the hell do hypocritical liberals get off arguing that non-citizens in Guantanamo should get full federal trials, but it's perfectly fine to assassinate an American citizen with no due process at all -- just as long as it's a Democrat who does the killing, preferably one who won the Nobel Peace Prize? The hypocrisy is beyond unbelievable.

Their attacks were nothing but craven attempts to get in power. There is a long and storied record of Democrats alsmost across the board recognizing that Sadaam did have WMD's and/or was trying to acquire them, and there is a long and storied history (with quotes to match) where they said as much. Yet, they could, within the time frame of passing the torch of a single administration deny what was common knowledge to everyone.
And liberals went along with it. Back ithen was the season of speaking truth to power, but as we all can see, that's conditional on who is in the office.
F them all.
And you'll note, they argue that Bush was a doofus, and Obama is this erudite learned leader. And of course, when push comes to shove they drop the idea of trying KSM in a civilan trial because it's a beyond STUPID idea. Yet Bush was dumb.
F them all.

t-man said...

Haven't read the comments, so this is probably not original, but:

The people who don't like Obama already knew that the Democrats' howls against the Bush Administration were pure political posturing. We didn't need to learn that lesson. The Democrats will never admit that, though. Moreover this fact will not be the subject of much press coverage or analysis in the major newsources. Therefore, the people who really needed to learn this will remain ignorant.

furious_a said...

It would be codes, coordinants, people turning the two launch keys or pushing the button on a B-2 to launch the 1st of 15 440KT thermonuclear bombs...

It frightens me that a garrulous idiot like Joe Biden is only a heartbeat away from the Big Red Button.

He might just sit on it by mistake.

Joe said...

mrs whatsit, it's worse than that. Obama ordered the assassination of teenagers guilty of nothing.

furious_a said...

C4: The truth is the Islamoids would need to get a weapon from a nation.

Shout: Hmmm. Have you ever heard of... say...

- Iran
- North Korea
- Pakistan *


* Pakistan isn't a country, it's a collection of quarrels with vague tribal borders.

Rusty said...

Andy R. said...

The Bush administration tortured people to death.



yes.
thank god.

Dante said...

Translation: we need to get idiots elected to the white house because the press is biased and stupid.

Next, we need to elect a green candidate, and convert to solar and wind. They are trying it in CA, and despite the obvious economic disaster that will be, they will want to do it anyway.

Dante said...

Translation: we need to get idiots elected to the white house because the press is biased and stupid.

Next, we need to elect a green candidate, and convert to solar and wind. They are trying it in CA, and despite the obvious economic disaster that will be, they will want to do it anyway.

chickelit said...

mrs whatsit said...
It's hard to believe that anybody is still complaining about the waterboarding that went on under Bush --

I never even looked at that list of Craiglist perverts Althouse linked to the other day. It occurs to me to ask those who did whether any of those creeps were begging for a good soaking.

veni vidi vici said...

Sure, we got to learn something about what the Bush Administration did.

Namely, not enough to justify the egregiously bunched-panty tantrum the Dems and left went on for about the entirety of Bush's tenure in office.

Announcing dropping the effort now is no less cynical than was the ballyhoo around this effort by Obama during his 2008 campaign.

Lameness on stilts; bollocks being out of the question as goes Obama...

Kirk Parker said...

Comanche,

"They'll be waving the bloody war crime shirt again on oh say, about February 1,2013."

What? Have they moved the date of Inauguration Day?