July 19, 2012

Let's look at the latest Romney and Obama ads.

I like Romney's riff on Obama's "you didn't build that" gaffe/revelation (via Instapundit):



And then there's this from Obama and Biden, who bill themselves (at the end) as "The Truth Team":



This is an odd ad, using a kind of "Jaywalking" technique of asking people on the street what something means, which allows them to throw out a lot of statements that "The Truth Team" doesn't have to get behind. Then there's a scroll of text that the viewer assumes supports the insinuation conveyed by the guesses from the people in the interviews. The phrase the people were asked to define is "retroactively retired," which the Romney campaign has used to explain Romney's exit from Bain Capital. The ad says to the viewers: There's something confusing and fishy here, and we know it means that Romney's ashamed of what his company did, which must be really bad or he wouldn't be trying to dance out of it, and we've got the facts, in case anybody wants to check, but you can trust us, we're The Truth Team.

It was funny watching this ad after the Romney ad, which has such a somber tone. The businessman almost breaks into tears over the fact that Obama isn't giving him respect for his accomplishments as a businessman. The Obama ad with its perky, plucky music portrays the businessman Romney as a big old clown. We're invited to identify with the amused and confused ordinary people who either don't know what's with the "retroactively retired" or assume it's some kind of trick. They seem like nice people, so maybe it's planted in our heads that Romney's a big joke. Who's the trickster here? You might think it's Obama. That's how the Obama ad could backfire. "The Truth Team" — seems juvenile, especially in context. But it also can make you suspicious. I get a Ministry of Truth— "Minitrue, in Newspeak"— kind of "1984" vibe from things like that. Obama's ad relies on the viewer's skepticism about language, so why wouldn't we be skeptical about his language too?

Obama's ad feels like Leno-light comedy, and Romney's ad is melodrama. Given the state of the economy, viewers might feel a stronger pull toward melodrama and identify with that hardworking owner of a metal fabricating company. Note that the campaign didn't choose a businessman in a suit type guy. There's a real workingman aura around this man that reminds me of the laid-off steelworker used in Obama's most famous anti-Bain ad. (Yes, I know that guy, Donnie Box, called Obama a "pantywaist.")

The Romney ad shows a workingman/businessman who gets up at 6:18 am, drinks coffee kisses his wife (in a conventional, middle-class kitchen, drives a truck into the sunrise, works in a shop complete with punch cards and spark-flinging grinders, and wears a T-shirt along with his employees. Interestingly, the business owner doesn't have a stereotypical workingman look. He's got a neat gray goatee and a trim body. Interestingly, the coffee is made in a French press. (And speaking of French, do you notice the slightly French way Romney says "entrepreneur" at 1:20 in the ad?)

I'll let you make the call:

Which ad is more successful?


  
pollcode.com free polls 

UPDATE: Obama has a new ad directly confronting "You didn't build that," and I analyze it here.

150 comments:

MayBee said...

Is it so hard for someone in government, with Robert Byrd, Ted Kennedy, and Gabrielle Giffords, to understand the idea of someone not doing a job but retaining the title?

How about Senator Obama when he was candidate Obama? He was still getting the paycheck, still had the title, but was not showing up to do that work. He was doing something elese.

campy said...

Demonstrating why they call the GOP the Stupid Party ...

aronamos said...

Hell, I don't know why where someone worked 20 years ago is more important than why people can't find jobs now.

Pogo said...

Obama will start talking about abortion again.

Or maybe Ann Romney's horse.

Or: Mormons!!!

MayBee said...

Or maybe Ann Romney's horse.

Yeah, that horse thing is a ridiculous disaster.

Dave said...

@ aronamos brilliant summation

cubanbob said...

campy said...
Demonstrating why they call the GOP the Stupid Party ...

7/19/12 8:07 AM

And you are emblematic of why the democrat-communist party is called the evil party. November can't come soon enough to toss the trash out of the white house and congress. By the time the next Administration gets done prosecuting all of those worthless criminals there won't be enough jail cells to hold all of the democrat-communists in. I'm sure Holder will enjoy being Blago's cellmate.

Moose said...

I think I'm going to kill my self before November rolls around. This election is all about shit circling the drain.

Hagar said...

Mitt Romney took leave of absence from Bain Capital to go off to Salt Lake City and get the Olympics put together, then when that was over, decided to go into politics rather than return to Bain, so they converted his leave of absence to something like a backdated resignation.
That's a bit unusual, but not that hard to understand.

So, can anyone show there was anything more to it?

cubanbob said...

Notice that even though the have spent a hundred million in ads lately team evil isn't getting any traction in the polls.

Valentine Smith said...

Very targeted audiences. Romney shows real men whereas The Big O shows 1 lesbian cab driver, a terminal student, a rare Urkel bird, and an acupuncturist/hypnotherapist.

LilyBart said...

That's a bit unusual, but not that hard to understand.-

Yes, but Obama has to make it sound nefarious - because, honestly, he's got nothing else.

The last 3 years prove he and his group don't have a clue about how to get this economy back on track. And he's vulnerable with Romney's business experience. So he has to make Romney's business background a liablity.

LilyBart said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BarryD said...

If the incumbent President has to run stupid attack ads in July, that looks bad.

Did Reagan have to do this against Mondale? Did Clinton against Dole? Bush against Kerry?

Sure, other people, pundits, etc. did attack them, but the incumbents weren't out doing it themselves, using their own faces in the ads.

LilyBart said...

This election is all about shit circling the drain

Yes, but whats circling the drain is our country's financial and social stability.

We've got to smarten up and take back control of our lives and our futures. We need to stop expecting government to take care of us. Honestly, who really thinks that turning over our lives and our money to government types will lead to some kind of earthly utopia?

Not advocating for NO government, Just limited government. Its safer that way.

deborah said...

The people answering the retroactively retired question are depressingly insipid and fatuous. The ad team must have taped many more people answering the question, but those four or five were apparently the cream of joe average.

I truly believe that both libs and cons are necessary for balance, but my god!

MadisonMan said...

Like Valerie Smith, I was struck by the people in the ads. Obama has a bunch of people from (I'm guessing) DC or Chicago. Romney has a businessman from New Hampshire.

I think Romney's ad is far more effective. Obama has nothing to crow about, does he?

campy said...

And you are emblematic of why the democrat-communist party is called the evil party.

Really? I despise the democrats. They're worse than the republicans. A lot worse.

But they aren't quite as stupid.

machine said...

So Romney gets to claim the good things that occurred at Bain during his "retroactive" period, but can disown the bad things....typical GOP position. I'm not sure why it is even questioned....

traditionalguy said...

There they go again. Obama's campaign is running ads that make Romney look like a smart man that outsmarted them. Oh, woo, woo.

But the Presidency needs a smart man that outsmarts his and our enemies.

Thanks again, Genius Axelrod.

Moose said...

*sigh*
I feel like we're being asked to replay the 2004 election. We've got a sitting president that hasn't really done anything he promised, and has gotten us into an expensive boondoggle. The opposing side is fielding a candidate the is about is interesting and accessible as wallpaper paste, and it freakin' rich besides.

Sad fact is, neither candidate is going to either destroy or save this country. We'll survive in spite of either's efforts no matter how noble or freakin' *brilliant* they are (sarcasm really intended).

Neither Romney nor Obama can "fix" anything. Its beyond their control. And the only people that can do *anything* to fix it is Congress and their ineptitude beggars the imagination.

I'm fixing to vote Libertarian again, like I did in 2008.

814659a2-986c-11e0-98c3-000bcdca4d7a said...

I don't like the way the Romney ad concatenates different parts of the Obama audio. It sounds like it should have been a contiguous recording , but it's not.

I have no argument with the "you didn't build that" context, which is sort of a different battle – but I like to think that my side doesn't need questionable editing to make the point, and this approach is dangerously close to an accusation like that, even if you say it doesn't materially change the meaning of what Obama said.

To insert a pause, or even more of a camera cut to indicate a gap, would not have really impacted the effectiveness of the Obama quote. This is perhaps more a nit than anything else, but Romney had the better argument against out-of-context quotes like "I'm not worried about poor people" – and then there's the whole outsourcing thing- I hate to see him opening himself up to this kind of argument against him. 

Maybe in a pinch, you could argue for taking a shortcut – but it should be a least be a case where you really benefit from the shortcut. This looks a little misleading, but without a tangible upside, as I see it. I say, don't wander away from the high ground – certainly not for no good reason.

Jake Diamond said...

Both ads are pretty damn lame.

Romney's ad is filled with false claims (e.g., President Obama wants to punish achievement). That kind of bullshit is just annoying and essentially it's yet another way of lying.

Obama's ad pretends to raise serious questions without offering the kind of information people would need to answer those questions. And using stooges to make accusations is pathetic.

cubanbob said...

Thanks moose for helping elect Obozo in the first place and for helping to re-elect him.

Campy given the choice between evil and stupid, stupid is better. At least the stupid aren't malicious. If you are against Obozo then it can only mean that you are to the left of him.

TWM said...

Romney keeps doing ads like this and he is going to win. Barry has nothing. Bain? Please, save for the spelling most people are thinking the Batman villian.

Wait? That's it. Maybe Barry can call on Batman to help.

Jay said...

machine said...
So Romney gets to claim the good things that occurred at Bain during his "retroactive" period, but can disown the bad things....typical GOP position


You mean like The deficit I inherited?

Kind of like that, right?

TWM said...

"Romney's ad is filled with false claims (e.g., President Obama wants to punish achievement). That kind of bullshit is just annoying and essentially it's yet another way of lying."

Barry's actions would suggest otherwise. Virtually everthing he has done to the economy does indeed punish achievement.

cubanbob said...

Jake Diamond said...
Both ads are pretty damn lame.

Romney's ad is filled with false claims (e.g., President Obama wants to punish achievement). That kind of bullshit is just annoying and essentially it's yet another way of lying.

You ever pay taxes at the 70% rate at the margin? Trust me, it does punish achievement. You think raising the cap gains tax and the dividend tax isn't going to not have an effect on achievement? You must be sharing a line of toot with Choom to believe that.

Jake Diamond said...

So, can anyone show there was anything more to it?

For starters, the chronology isn't as simple as you think. There was the part-time leave of absence first, then the full-time leave of absence, then the retroactive retirement. And during that time, he was still involved with the company in a way that a retired person and stockholder wouldn't normally have been.

Jay said...

I do rather enjoy the fact that Obama has spent $100 million for ads in select battleground states to be tied in VA, up 2 in OH, and down 1 in Michigan.

Smart guy, that Obama.

TWM said...

"I'm fixing to vote Libertarian again, like I did in 2008.

And that's always a winner . . .

Jake Diamond said...

You ever pay taxes at the 70% rate at the margin? Trust me, it does punish achievement.

Yeah, Obama invented taxes. And deficits. And war.

Any other secret information you want to share?

Shanna said...

I love the Romney ad. He hits all the points that the 'that's not what Obama meant' people are missing. That alot of people work hard, a lot of people are smart, bit is the devastating part for me, followed by this guy making the point "What about the Risks we took!"

I think Obama's general idea is if there are smart people out there and hard workers out there, why aren't they rich? He never consideres 1. That they aren't the same people or 2. The element of risk taking involved in starting a business. The majority of businesses fail. The people that don't have done something amazing, whether Obama understands it or not.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Yeah, Obama invented taxes. And deficits. And war.


I think you should keep attacking things people never said.

It is quite revealing.

Idiot.

Jake Diamond said...

Virtually everthing he has done to the economy does indeed punish achievement.

I'll modify what I said before: Romney's ad is terrific for exciting the irrational rabid right wing of the GOP.

Are you happy now?

Jay said...

It is funny that Obama’s job council agrees with Romney’s corporate tax plan.

Of course just like when he ignorned Simpson-Bowles, Obama gets to ignore his jobs council.

Smart guy, that Obama.

Jake Diamond said...

And that's always a winner . . .

Because the most important thing is to vote for the winner!

Pathetic.

LilyBart said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jake Diamond said...

Jay seems to be the Althouse blog fear barker. His yapping is annoying and tiresome, but his endurance is amazing.

Shanna said...

OK, now I've watching Obama's ad. It shows a bunch of dumb people speculating about what retroactively retired means. It doesn't tell you anything factual, really, except some businesses failed. Duh. As I mentioned before, that happens to MOST of them. If Obama understood anything he would know that.

Interestingly, the business owner doesn't have a stereotypical workingman look. He's got a neat gray goatee and a trim body.

This is a weird comment to me. People who actually work hard, rather than sitting in an office, are often trim. What is the 'stereotypical workingman look'?

LilyBart said...

.....false claims (e.g., President Obama wants to punish achievement).

Its true that their objective is not necessarily to 'punish' success. They just want to take the money - the 'punishment' is just the consequence - the effect.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...
Jay seems to be the Althouse blog fear barker


Sockpuppet:

You're this week's intellectual coward.

Carry on.

TWM said...

"Because the most important thing is to vote for the winner!

Pathetic."

No, the most important thing is to throw your vote away on a sure loser because you think it is a meaningful gesture.

That's both pathetic AND egotistical.

BarryD said...

"Not advocating for NO government, Just limited government. Its safer that way."

If we have to err, I'd rather have too little than too much, though.

The reason that the mob, monopolistic corporations, etc. have had as much power as they have is because they capture the government, whether it's the local cops or the majority of Congress. The progressive belief that more and bigger government will protect us from threats to our liberty is silly.

edutcher said...

didn't like any of the options.

The Romster's ad is simple and, by showing a working stiff going off and doing something, ridicules Choom's words.

Axelrod's ad make Choom's voters look like idiots (they don't know the meaning of retroactive?).

machine said...

So Romney gets to claim the good things that occurred at Bain during his "retroactive" period, but can disown the bad things....typical GOP position.

No, typical Zero position.

"We've had some bad luck".

Arab Spring

Japanese tidal wave

Euro debt

blah, blah.

Jay said...

Jobless claims rise by 34,000 in latest week to 386,000 vs. 365,000 expected.

Unexpectedly!

But, Romney was "retroactive"!!!

He was!!!

Matthew Sablan said...

Obama has stated he is OK with punishing achievement. Remember, at some point, you've earned enough money. Phrasing it as punishment is simply finding a different way to explain it. Also, remember, energy prices will necessarily skyrocket.

Jake Diamond said...

Its true that their objective is not the 'punish' success. They just want to take the money - the 'punishment' is just the consequence, the effect.

I don't agree with your assessment but I give you credit for posting something that demonstrates a bit of thought. The reactionary bullshit that characterizes so many of the comments here makes me wonder if over half the posters are TeaPartyBots.

Jay said...

Asked who would better handle terrorism, 44% say Obama, 43% say Romney.

The OBL kill did wonders for Obama, right?

Also, in the same NY Times poll: 36% approve of "2010 Health Care Law," 50% disapprove.

Gee, I guess Obama just needs to give more speeches about it.

Jake Diamond said...

You're this week's intellectual coward.

Thanks Jay but I'll let you keep the title for the 43rd consecutive week. After all, you've earned it!

Yap yap yap yap yap!

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...
. The reactionary bullshit that characterizes so many of the comments here makes me wonder if over half the posters are TeaPartyBots.


Right!

As opposed to you, big truth tellin' fact machine!!!

I mean, you're not like a silly dishonest hack or anything.

You talk facts little boy.

You do!!!

Idiot.

Shanna said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

Best part is, even with a 6 point skew toward the Demos, the Gray Lady/Black Rock poll still has the Romster up by 1.

Jay said...

Jay seems to be the Althouse blog fear barker


Sockpuppet:

You're this week's intellectual coward.


I see someone else notes a similarity in "style".

ricpic said...

Why don't they call themselves the We Ain't Got No Shame team? Oops, that would be honest: the only absolute No No.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

Yap yap yap yap yap!


Mind you, from the author of:

That kind of bullshit is just annoying and essentially it's yet another way of lying.


And:

Romney's ad is terrific for exciting the irrational rabid right wing of the GOP

And:

reactionary bullshit that characterizes so many of the comments here

Project much?

Idiot

Jake Diamond said...

the most important thing is to throw your vote away on a sure loser because you think it is a meaningful gesture.

It's time you grow a pair. When was the last time you were happy with your elected officials? I'm sick and tired of choosing between corporate America candidate A and corporate America candidate B. There are a lot of people who don't like either outcome enough to want to participate in a game of "pick the winner."

If you don't like third party candidates, don't vote for them. But people like you, who automatically rule out third party candidates, help perpetuate the conditions that keep third party candidates from meaningfully competing.

cubanbob said...

Jake Diamond said...
You ever pay taxes at the 70% rate at the margin? Trust me, it does punish achievement.

Yeah, Obama invented taxes. And deficits. And war.

Any other secret information you want to share?

7/19/12 8:53 AM

Hmmm US corporations are sitting on nearly two trillion dollars in retain earnings from foreign operations and not repatriating the money home.
Of course to a typical democrat voter it doesn't compute that paying 35% in US corporate income taxes if they brought the money back has no effect on how the companies make their investment decisions. But thanks to the democrats that money will never come back. Romney on the other hand has stated if elected he will only tax US corporations on income they earn within the US, something most of the worlds other countries managed to figure out for themselves. Try to imagine what two trillion privately invested dollars would do for the country. But at 35% corporate taxes and then the new and horrible dividend tax increase no board of directors or CEO would be stupid enough to bring back the money as there is no chance of ever earning enough on the net to make it worthwhile. Keep sipping the KoolAid while you are on the unemployment line.

No Obama didn't invent taxes or war but he sure has doubled down on stupid. Which is why no doubt you are voting for him. Stupid is as stupid does.

Jay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jake Diamond said...

Phrasing it as punishment is simply finding a different way to explain it.

It's called distorting the truth. Or lying.

Shanna said...

Romney's ad is terrific for exciting the irrational rabid right wing of the GOP

It is truly bizarre to me that anyone would watch that sober, heartfelt Romney ad and think anything close to 'irrational' or 'rabid'.

Jay said...

So the speaker of such phrases as:

At some point you've earned enough money and I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness

and who is running around calling for higher taxes on people making over $250,000 and who is imposing a medical device excise tax and a dividend “surtax” of 3.8% on families making more than $250,000 per year under Obamacare, is totally not punishing success.

He's not!!!

Really! And you tea party dummies who think otherwise are just soooooo stupid!!!

Matthew Sablan said...

"It's called distorting the truth. Or lying."

-- No. Lying is saying that Romney may be a felon, or saying that a business did things when he was in charge when he was not. Lying is an actual contradiction of known facts with an intention to deceive.

Characterizing Obama's desire to injure those who have succeeded beyond a certain threshold as wanting to punish them is simply good rhetoric.

Jake Diamond said...

Has anyone started a fund to help Jay buy a new exclamation point key every month?

campy said...

you tea party dummies who think otherwise are just soooooo stupid!!!

... and racist.

Jake Diamond said...

Obama's desire to injure those who have succeeded

I don't doubt that you believe this, but check out reality some time. It's not as scary as you think.

elkh1 said...

Was Romney smarter and worked harder in Bain, did he do what Obama said he did in Bain? No, Romney didn't build up Bain, somebody else did.

Wouldn't it be nice if Obama had retroactively retired as of Jan 2009?

Btw, do anybody, especially those who just pulled their first unemployment checks, care when Romney retired from Bain? I bet they care more about when Obama would retire.

Christopher in MA said...

Not saying anything that hasn't been said before, but the "you didn't build that" line may be the kryptonite that finally kills Little Black Jesus. If you trawl around the web, Axelrod's trolls are frantically pushing one of five storylines:

1. He didn't say it!
2. If he did say it, it's out of context!
3. If he did say it and it's in context, he misspoke!

(parenthetically, #3 is the funniest, since the Choomer's voters never tire of bleating that he's the greatest orator since Pericles. So, were they lying then or are they lying now? Or is the teleprompter a paid Koch Brothers saboteur?)

4. Bain!
5. Racist!

BTW, don't like to engage in troll feeding (unless it's sticking it to garage), but Jake, can you define "reactionary?" I'm guessing it means "I hate Republicans," since I can't imagine you have any real understanding of the term.

X said...

The Truth Team sounds like a car dealer who appends "Honest" in front of his name. Instant non-credibility.

TWM said...

"It's time you grow a pair. When was the last time you were happy with your elected officials?"

I've never been totally happy with an elected official in my life. Any person who says they have been is either a liar or a fool and probably both.

There is no perfect person and therefore no perfect politician. You vote for the best person. The one who you believe most closely represents your interests and, more importantly the best interests of America.

Of course that person could be a third party candidate. But even if it is you also have to factor in the chances of that person winning. What good does it do to vote for someone who has no chance? Especially when a vote for that person may hurt the chances of someone who is perhaps not your perfect choice but certainly better than the other guy.

It's just egotistical feel-good bullshit and nothing else. Politial masturbation for the "I'm smarter than the rest of you" crowd.

For the record, I am quite impressed with Romney so far. Was he my first choice? No. But he's saying the right things and keeping Barry on the defensive. I like that.

If elected will he govern well? I don't know. But I'm willing to give him a chance and am certain that he will do better that Obama. And better than the guy you are voting for who, you know, is NEVER going to get a chance to govern.

chickelit said...

Jake Diamond said...

Romney's ad is filled with false claims (e.g., President Obama wants to punish achievement). That kind of bullshit is just annoying and essentially it's yet another way of lying.

I think you object to the word "punish" so how about "not reward" instead? or more bluntly, tax?

I don't know about this ad, but the message is true. Obama is all about reengineering a middle class along the lines of Europe: rise too high above the median and you are "punished"; fall too far below median and you are pumped up. If you can accept that, then we can debate the merits of Obama's philosophy and other import points. But don't argue the facts Herr Diamond, it's unbecoming of you.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I don't doubt that you believe this, but check out reality some time. It's not as scary as you think."

-- That's exactly how he characterizes it; he wants to increase taxes on them for reasons of fairness, even when given the hypothetical that actual revenue will shrink. He would rather the government have less money, provided people above a given threshold lose more money. It is purely about hurting them and not about improving the government's position, or well, I suppose, "fairness" is how he characterized it, but I see nothing fair about a hypothetical that only hurts people with no upside.

elkh1 said...

Shanna:It is truly bizarre to me that anyone would watch that sober, heartfelt Romney ad and think anything close to 'irrational' or 'rabid'.

An 'irrational' and 'rabid' person would.

TWM said...

BTW, I love the trolls. Get's the blood flowing in the morning.

edutcher said...

Jake Diamond said...

Obama's desire to injure those who have succeeded

I don't doubt that you believe this, but check out reality some time. It's not as scary as you think.


From one who deals in surreality.

Actually, Little Zero has told us on many occasions how he intends to destroy the country and, as his ad shows, only the feeble of intellect support him.

WV "ageniE" How Barbara Eden made a living for 5 years.

Christopher in MA said...

I'm sick and tired of choosing between corporate America candidate A and corporate America candidate B.

I think we can rule out Robert Cook as Jake - they may think the same, but Cook is far more mannered.

Nathan Alexander said...

Right now, the only chance Obama has is if conservative voter turnout is as depressed as liberal turnout is going to be.

That's why you see all the passive-aggressive assertions by shiloh.

It's also why you see all the "pox on both their houses" by people like phx.

They'll still vote for Obama, of course, but if they can convince you that both sides are equally bad, maybe you won't vote.

Don't fall for it.

The choice is clear: if you want the nation to get back on track, stop the entitlement time bomb, and restore the American dream (work hard and make careful choices and you will become wealthy, regardless of race, sex, religion, or starting point), then vote for Romney.

If you want to nurse grievances, be perpetually angry, blame others for everything you don't like in life while not lifting a finger to make things better, then vote for Obama.

traditionalguy said...

Romney's ad may win this election for him. It is as spot on an ad as I have ever seen.

The urban giggling bureaucrats and pretty students are Obama's people and are being taken care of quite well, for now, by Obama Fascism.

But the middleclass business OWNERS and workers that think they can still do anything except go extinct as China rules the economic earth are the ones that Obama fascism leaves out and assigns to EPA Death Panels for Private Business.

This election is very important.

chickelit said...

Nathan Alexander said...
Right now, the only chance Obama has is if conservative voter turnout is as depressed as liberal turnout is going to be.

Fight the Dour!

Fight the Glowers that be!

edutcher said...

Christopher in MA said...

I'm sick and tired of choosing between corporate America candidate A and corporate America candidate B.

I think we can rule out Robert Cook as Jake - they may think the same, but Cook is far more mannered.


There are a few real Lefties here - Cook, garage, MadMan, a few more.

Most of the rest are sockpuppets run by maybe 2 or 3 trolls with boilerplate provided.

As several have noted, the only differentiation is slight shifts in "style".

elkh1 said...

MS: he wants to increase taxes on them for reasons of fairness

Actually he wants to increase taxes so he could have more taxpayers money to reward his billionaire bundlers: Solyndra's Kaiser, Petrobra's Soros, Goldman Sachs' Buffett, Pelosi's brother-in-law, to name a few.

shiloh said...

lol come Nov. no one will remember these ads.

As always Althouse con lemmings, pace yourselves! :-P

chickelit said...

Shilhoh is Dr Dour hisself.

garage mahal said...

I think we can rule out Robert Cook as Jake - they may think the same, but Cook is far more mannered.

Sez the guy that uses drowning and gun to the head metaphors on other commenters.

Matthew Sablan said...

You'll be amazed what ads resonate and which ones don't. None of these are Demon Sheep quality, but, you never know.

TWM said...

"The urban giggling bureaucrats and pretty students are Obama's people and are being taken care of quite well, for now, by Obama Fascism."

I don't think Barry should bet on students. At least not recent grads. Jobs are few out there and a lot of them are feeling disenchanted big time now. They may not be able to vote for Romney but I can see them sitting this one out.

Matthew Sablan said...

The general feeling I'm noticing among the people younger than me is not necessarily disenchantment so much as just non-enchantment. If you get them talking, yeah, they still like the President. But, it requires conscious prompting and choice as opposed to 2008's emotional connection.

Jake Diamond said...

Actually, Little Zero has told us on many occasions how he intends to destroy the country

Sanity is in short supply among the Obama haters. Why isn't disagreeing with his policies enough? Why do you feel obliged to invent bullshit like "Obama wants to destroy the country!!!" or "Obama wants to injure successful people!!!"

Seriously folks, tune into reality now and then.

chickelit said...

And is there anyone more gloomy and full of doom that Garage Mahal (except when he talks about beer or the great Wisconsin outdoors).

EMD said...

I find it laughable that this Bain business is all that the Obama side has to attack Romney.

I mean, the guy was Governor of a state and has a public record.

edutcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EMD said...

Why isn't disagreeing with his policies enough?

Okay, Jake. Obama's policies suck.

edutcher said...

shiloh said...

lol come Nov. no one will remember these ads.

No, but, "You didn't build that", is probably going to be remembered as what lost it for Zero.

Joe Schmoe said...

Haven't read all the comments yet; I just wanted to comment on the ads.

The O-Camp. ad is hands-down better, and it pains me greatly to say that. Shorter, more succinct, and it cuts quickly and deeply to something that will hurt Mitt throughout this campaign. Mitt doesn't explain things quickly and clearly. He uses terms like 'retroactively retired' that are just begging to be parodied. When he says shit like that, it makes my eyes roll.

Mitt's ad takes too long to get to the point. If he wants gauzy treatment of small-town America, he should hire the people who made the 'Friday Night Lights' TV show. That was brilliantly shot.

If Mitt's going to go edgy, this ain't it.

Christopher in MA said...

I never said I was mannered, garbage. But I admire it in Cook. I disagree with nearly everything he says, but he is able to indulge in a respectful conversation and gives time to opposing points of view.

As opposed to you, who are a mendacious hack incapable of telling the truth, linking to the truth or even engaging in reality (BTW, how's that John Doe investigation going?)

If you were honest, I'd treat you with respect. But you're not.

Colonel Angus said...

It is truly bizarre to me that anyone would watch that sober, heartfelt Romney ad and think anything close to 'irrational' or 'rabid'.

Not when you consider that Obama's core base of supporters are somewhat to the left of Fidel Castro on the ideological spectrum.

It's quite evident that Obama despises those who have accumulated wealth. His repeated statements of the wealthy needing to pay their fair share of income tax right up to telling business owners that they really didn't build their business goes right to the heart of his belief in the collective rather than applauding individual achievement.

The man isn't fit to run a lemonade stand let alone be President.

Colonel Angus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shanna said...

Mitt's ad takes too long to get to the point.

It's probably an internet ad, rather than tv spot. Are they doing a shorter version for TV?

But I disagree with you on ad quality. Maybe it's just because I think the Romney ad is amazing and the music alone on the Obama ad makes it sound like evil clowns are out to get you. I guess that's supposed to be associated with Romney but it's not working for me.

Jim said...

"Come November, no one will remember these ads."

Yeah. That's EXACTLY why Obama spent $100 million in negative ads.

This is beyond wishful thinking and well into desperate wishcasting.

Christopher in MA said...

I mean the guy was governor of a state and has a public record.

Apparently a record of Mormon duplicity and lying which brought the state to bankruptcy, if you read Crack's meltdown last night.

Hagar said...

So, can anyone show there was anything more to it?

For starters, the chronology isn't as simple as you think. There was the part-time leave of absence first, then the full-time leave of absence, then the retroactive retirement. And during that time, he was still involved with the company in a way that a retired person and stockholder wouldn't normally have been.


All true, but still nothing sinister about it. Romney had moved on, and he and his partner's agreed all the financial arrangements were in place, so the easiest thing to do was just to put a coversheet on it saying to cross out "leave of absence and write retirement," staple it all together, and file it.

Roger J. said...

As it now July 19, it does seem a bit strange to me that attack ads are showing up--And I do agree with Shilo that most of these will be long forgotten (except for Obama's gaffe re "you didnt create that"). Fortunately I dont own a TV, not in a battleground state, and will be in Spain in October, so I will not be assaulted by the bullshit.

Roger J. said...

And let me second the comments about Rober Cook--I disagree with him on most issues, but he appears to me to be intellectually honest, and civil in stating his positions.

garage mahal said...

RogerJ
How was the Canada trip? You should have caught a boatload of northerns I should think.

edutcher said...

The attack ads are showing up because, even in rigged polls, Barry is barely staying even with Romney.

The real numbers must have him down by about 4.

If Axelrod and Plouffe can't make the Full Court Alinsky work now, this election will fall in the history books somewhere between '64 and '72.

Consider the desperation of the trolls

Roger J. said...

Garage--it was basically a northern on every cast--I use 4 lb test ultra light and a quarter ounce johnson silver minnow (with a six inch stainless steel leader)--and this trip the walleye were out in force--walleye for breakfast and dinner every day. I am telling you, you had to hide behind a tree to bait a hook.

Gahrie said...

Am I missing something here?

Romney gives up his private job, making millions of dollars for himself and others, to save the failing Olympics, and this somehow makes him an evil capitalist?

Roger J. said...

(pardon the off topic, but fishing is more important than politics)--Garage--we rented canoes at Pelican Narrows and fished Mirond Lake--had a bad forest fire which scortched 70 percent of the shoreline, but were able to camp and enjoy. Fished what I call the high grass along the shorelines--where it comes to within about 2 feet of the surface. BTW, I always fish my spoons with the barbs bent down--easier to unhook the northerns. My son caught a 40 inch northern he fought for 30 minutes.

TWM said...

"Obama wants to destroy the country!!!" or "Obama wants to injure successful people!!!"


It doesn't matter whether he wants those things or not. His policies are doing just that.

That's not hyperbole, that's a fact.

cubanbob said...

Jake Diamond said...
Actually, Little Zero has told us on many occasions how he intends to destroy the country

Sanity is in short supply among the Obama haters. Why isn't disagreeing with his policies enough? Why do you feel obliged to invent bullshit like "Obama wants to destroy the country!!!" or "Obama wants to injure successful people!!!"

Seriously folks, tune into reality now and then.

7/19/12 9:41 AM

Hmm who to believe? You, Obama or my lying eyes?
When more people are applying for SSI than are getting jobs every month.....

So after at today's rates working five months out of the year for government isn't punishing me I'm supposed to believe if he has his way working six months of the year for government isn't going to punish isn't a punishment either? Or should I be grateful for his generosity in leaving me what i have left?

garage mahal said...

Good deal Roger. Hope you fried up some of those northerns. They're as good or better tastting than walleyes IMO. Albeit a pain in the ass to filet with the Y bones.

I'd like to get up in some of those big shallow bays and try throwing streamers for northerns with a fly rod in the spring.

machine said...

"But the video deceptively edits Obama’s remarks to seamlessly link up two different parts of the speech, removing a chunk in order to make Obama’s remarks seem far worse than they are."

You are all Breitbart now...how proud...

Matthew Sablan said...

I don't think the edit sounds particularly deceptive. In fact, the edit is perfectly legitimate. What is the key message that Obama is wanting to tell you? If you built that, X. It's a legitimate cut of the audio. Maybe they could make it more clear there was an edit, but that is Obama's thesis statement, there is nothing wrong with focusing on it.

Matthew Sablan said...

Also, Machine, it would help if you would cite your sources.

Joe Schmoe said...

I have one other comment on these ads and others that have been put out recently. Team O has done a good job of putting out attack ads that don't feature Obama. How many ads do they put out where Obama is the one featured directly and speaking directly? He almost never is. Even in our comments here, there are a few people denigrating Axelrod for the ad content, not Obama.

Conversely, Romney is featured in his ad, speaking directly to Obama's dumbass comment. He does this in other ads, too.

The result is that Romney seems like the one directly engaging in negative campaigning, and Obama is removed from it. We blame Axelrod, not Obama.

Now, an unspoken implication of this tactic is that Obama has totally lost his ability to be inspiring and convincing. However, it does seem to be an effective tactic in the short term.

Romney needs to realize that a strong offense is the best defense right now. Tons of shit to nail the BHO White House with right now. Just use it.

Jay said...

Jake Diamond said...

I don't doubt that you believe this, but check out reality some time. It's not as scary as you think.


Notice how you couldn't bother to explain with actual facts or data how Obama would never want to punish success.

You'll just name-call.

Why do you think that is?

Titus said...

I love the horse ad. It's so bitchy and mean.

I think it would be more interesting if they went into a ring and physically fought each other. The wives too.

I want hair pulling and blood.

tits.

Roger J. said...

Garage: sent you a note off line re the really important stuff: fishing.

Jay said...

machine said...


You are all Breitbart now...how proud...


Except Breitbart never edited any video at any time, ever.

Idiot.

Matthew Sablan said...

Does that also make NBC Breitbart? Hey! Their edit was ACTUALLY dishonest, as opposed to Romney's.

Rusty said...

The Romney ad shows a workingman/businessman who gets up at 6:18 am, drinks coffee kisses his wife (in a conventional, middle-class kitchen, drives a truck into the sunrise, works in a shop complete with punch cards and spark-flinging grinders, and wears a T-shirt along with his employees. Interestingly, the business owner doesn't have a stereotypical workingman look. He's got a neat gray goatee and a trim body. Interestingly, the coffee is made in a French press.


Yeah. So. It's almost exactly how I ran my shop down to the T shirt everyone else wears. I din't have a goatee and our coffee machine was a Mr.Coffee. But other than that it's exactly how it worked.
I'd keep a change of good clothes in case I had to met a vendor or a client. I miss good shop coffee.

garage mahal said...

Roger
The yahoo address?

EMD said...

Garage: sent you a note off line re the really important stuff: fishing.

Fishing is bi-partisan behavior.

Roger J. said...

garage--think its you business addy

Bruce Hayden said...

I think that the Romney add is effective, but maybe aimed at a demographic that he already has nailed down - working class whites. Running up the score with them. I think that it might have done better if the ad had featured a black business or something like that.

Sure, it is an attack ad, but so is the Obama one. It highlights the main issue that the Romney people need to push, and that is the economy, and gets their core message out, which is that Obama doesn't understand how this country creates jobs or wealth, and that is why he has helped drive this recession into almost a depression.

There is something innately American and the American dream with the Romney ad. This is how we became great, with people taking chances at their dreams, borrowing money against their houses, and working their rear ends off, etc. And, this is where the jobs come from.

Another thing that Romney seems to be pushing here is nostalgia. Nostalgia for when America was great, and taking chances and working hard was the American dream.

Roger J. said...

OK--another off topic note: why do you always take two mormons fishing with you? ans: if you only take one he will drink all your beer. apologies to latter day saints everywhere.

edutcher said...

Jake Diamond said...

Actually, Little Zero has told us on many occasions how he intends to destroy the country

Sanity is in short supply among the Obama haters. Why isn't disagreeing with his policies enough? Why do you feel obliged to invent bullshit like "Obama wants to destroy the country!!!" or "Obama wants to injure successful people!!!"


Telling the truth hurts the little trolls. And sanity is their problem because they sell their souls to shill for a bankrupt system like the welfare State.

But, to prove where Little Zero stands, a medley of his hits:

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody".

"They get bitter and cling to their guns and religion".

"You didn't build that".

"I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money".

Gee, doesn't sound like anybody who likes the way the country has worked, now does he?

Throw in ignoring court orders and circumventing Congress' Constitutional role and I'd say he means this country no good.

garage mahal said...

Roger
We met a client of ours in Nashville that told that same joke, except about about Baptists. Hah.

Seeing Red said...

When it comes to the point the mob wants less juice than Uncle Sam, we have a problem.

At least the mob risked their money.

Shanna said...

We met a client of ours in Nashville that told that same joke, except about about Baptists.

I've always heard it about baptists. There's also one that asks what the difference is between a bapitist and a methodist? The methodist will speak to you in the liquor store.

There is something innately American and the American dream with the Romney ad.

Indeed. That’s why I disagree that it only targets middle class whites. It targets anyone with a business, and anyone who would hope to own one. Even if it is ‘attacking’ Obama, it doesn’t feel like an attack. It feels like an earnest question to Obama. Why don’t you value the risk I took to start this business and the hard work that goes into it? Why are you so dismissive of what I’ve worked hard to build?

Titus said...

I love Mrs. Romney referring other Americans as you people.

It is so bitchy and rich.

I would of said the same thing.

You people.

She is a nasty piece of work, but I love her.

Her and Michelle Obama in a ring now, I want to see hair pulled and tits bouncing.

tits.

Roger J. said...

Shanna and Garage: re baptists: why are the so many drive thru liquor stores in the south? Ans: so deacons dont have to meet their parishoners face to face.

Joe Schmoe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe Schmoe said...

Shanna, I have to agree with Bruce. Mitt's ad is just fodder for the already-believing. I don't mean to imply it's a terrible ad. It's nice. It's just not hard-hitting enough for now, so I'm scoring the round for the bad guys.

Like with most things with Mitt when it comes to politics, he's going to have to learn how to hit back just as hard. He doesn't have instincts for fighting.

I think Obama's got a good system set up. Axelrod is the fall guy, just like Rove was Bush's fall guy, and Romney should take a page out of their book. He can stay above the fray while his Darth Vader-like campaign manager takes the opprobrium.

Joe Schmoe said...

When Obama riffs on successful business owners versus all of the smart people around, I had to laugh.

"There are a lot of smart folks out there!" Sure. But smart people with lots of college credentials are some of the most timid, risk-averse people I know. Good luck hoping they will take a chance on running their own business.

Our contemporary society has raised detached, cynical second-guessing to the highest of artform. It's not a great quality for entrepreneurial success, and it's not a great quality to see on display in a president.

Michael said...

Jake Diamond wrote. "And during that time, he was still involved with the company in a way that a retired person and stockholder wouldn't normally have been."

How was he involved other than through ownership and title retention? How are stockholders involved?

bagoh20 said...

"I think Obama's got a good system set up. Axelrod is the fall guy, just like Rove was Bush's fall guy, and Romney should take a page out of their book. He can stay above the fray while his Darth Vader-like campaign manager takes the opprobrium."

You can't argue with the effectiveness or long history of this approach, but I think a strategy that would kill that one is a candidate making it very clear that he was not doing that. The "buck stops here" approach. He would say: Others may attack my opponent, but unless you heard it from me, I don't endorse or agree with it. I take full responsibility for my campaign as I will the job of President. I won't blame my predecessor or unfortunate events, I will simply get to work, and in four years you can judge me on my results, period.

That's an Obama-killer approach. All the same stuff would happen, and he would still get help with attacks on Obama, but he keeps denouncing them unless they are vetted as true, and he wants to endorse it.

If you want contrast with Obama, that's where it is. I would also take responsibility for some of the Bain stuff. I'd say, if it was a direct result of things I did when I was there then OK, blame me, but that also goes for the successes. The time for excuses is over. We need to act, and change the focus away from government solutions. It's not the people who are broke, it's the government, because unlike the rest of us, they don't act responsibly, and now they want us to pay for it.

Sure that may piss of some people who actually consider themselves broke and in need of government help, but he's not getting that vote anyway.

Michael said...

Roger J and Garage: a game and fish guy is trying to figure out why only one person is catching fish on the lake. He is convinced the guy is using an illegal method. He goes undercover and gets invited to fish with the suspect and sure enough once out on the lake the guy opens up a gunny sack, pulls out a stick of dynamite, lights it and tosses it in the lake. The game and fish guy whips out his badge and tells the guy he is under arrest. The guy calmly reaches in the gunny sack, pulls out a stick, lights it and hands it to the game warden. " do you want to talk or do you want to fish?"

Roger J. said...

Michael: dupont spinners are VERY effective although they do require long handled nets :)

garage mahal said...

Hahaha. Good one Michael. I may have even grown up with some people that fished with explosives. For real.

bagoh20 said...

The Romney ad could have been shot in my company where I sit right now. The exact same visuals, and the owner looks about my age, and I too risked my home and every penny I had to get this, and that was after first building it with a lot of help as an employee. I don't know how many like me there are, but it certainly resonated with me.

Of course, I know that Obama was actually saying we didn't build the infrastructure, rather than our companies, but that's just bullshit too. It's just the other side of the ideology that he's entirely immersed in. The idea that government is what creates success is stupid, and clueless, as one would expect from someone who never had a real job or took a risk with his own money. There certainly are people who owe their success to government, but that just means private business was successful enough to carry them both. We don't tax the government to pay for business now do we?

Nathan Alexander said...

I don't think you can look at these ads without considering the context.

The context is, the whole Bain conversation is a complete loser for Obama.

Why?

This whole line of attack depends on the following chain of logic:

1) Romney was still in charge of Bain despite a claim of leaving the company
2) Bain was doing bad things
3) Bain's bad things were actually bad for the economy
4) The supposed bad things Romney was supposedly in charge of that were supposedly harmful to the economy were somehow different than the things that key Obama supporters have done in their businesses (and in one stark case, when the Obama supporter was in charge of Bain)

The desired conclusion:
If you accept that Bain did bad things, and if you accept that these things were extremely bad for the economy, and if you accept that these things were different than Obama supporters actions, and if you accept that Romney was actually in charge of all these things after he claimed to have left Bain, and if you accept that the difference between Romney's claims of when he left Bain are somehow relevant, then you still have to accept that his experiences and methods at Bain will have a greater influence on Romney's actions as President than his successful management of the 2002 Olympics and relatively successful turn as MA governor.

I mean, you can then try to argue that his time leading MA and the Olympics weren't as successful as originally thought, but that is an extremely long and complicated argument to make.

Most liberals can't understand anything more complex than "Visualize World Peace" or "It's W's fault".

Just look at how all the liberal sockpuppets commenting here can't keep the talking points concise and succinct.

The comment threads are going to be really quiet the 2nd week in November, as all the liberals avoid eating crow.

Tarzan said...

When more people are applying for SSI than are getting jobs every month.....

Just had a conspiracy minded thought:

WHAT IF:

Bill Ayres aka 'President Barak Obama' has secretly decreed that supporters will get steered into receiving SSI so that 'only bad people' will get hurt when his plan to nuke the economy come to full fruition?

Crazy, I know, but please, someone talk me down so I can get back to some productive work!

Joe Schmoe said...

Hypothetical: If Chris Christie had been the GOP nominee, is this the ad he would've put out in response to Obama's nonsense?

Jim Howard said...

It looks to me like Obama's ad is targeted at keeping his core voters in his camp.

For the father of Solyndra to criticize a private sector bankruptcy is pretty hilarious to anyone with a clue, which of course excludes the core Obama vote.

Romney's ad takes his argument to the blue collar 'workers', who used to be a core Democrat constituency.

Net/net to me, Romney is on offense, Obama is on defense.

Michael said...

Garage: In my youth I misspent a great deal of time fishing. I lived on a lake in the deep south while I was teaching at a nearby college. I fished every day but was bothered by a guy, an evil redneck, who ran a trot-line between his dock and a beautiful cove that was home to several large Bass. In fact, on many nights I sculled my jon boat into the cove and liberated the larger bass. In the end I simply chopped up his lines entirely.

Never let it be said that I was not a liberator, a liberal and a sport!

Matthew Sablan said...

For everyone saying they want Romney to be tougher on Obama: He called the guy a liar. That's pretty ballsy to actually say that in politics. Don't worry. He's not gonna go soft.

garage mahal said...

Never let it be said that I was not a liberator, a liberal and a sport!

Nice work! Trot lines for bass is just wrong.

When I was younger, and when the lake turned over in fall/early winter, and it's too cold to motorboat, a great tactic fishing for musky is to canoe or paddle a musky sucker out as far as you have line, and drop it. Paddle back and leave it sit. Tie a little colored piece of anything to your line, to see if something peeled off any line. I used to watch right from my window with football on the TV. I used swallow rigs, so you would have to jump in your boat and follow the fish and set the hook. It's an old Tony Rizzo trick. I would have to say that was pretty unethical in this day and age though.

Shanna said...

ad is just fodder for the already-believing.

I don't know, you may be right. But you know what? Half the game is turnout.

If Romney can get all the people who gritted their teeth or just stayed home for McCain onboard and happy about it he's halfway there.

Michael said...

Garage: Nice story. I am reminded of all the unsporting ways to catch fish that may not be around any more Do you remember Yo-Yos? They were tied to a branch and had a primitive spring loaded spool. Sort of a one line trot line.

Anyway, I was teaching myself to fly fish for bass in those days and the trot lines were in my way! That, my friend, is when I turned Republican!!!

Saint Croix said...

"The Truth Team" — seems juvenile, especially in context. But it also can make you suspicious. I get a Ministry of Truth— "Minitrue, in Newspeak"— kind of "1984" vibe from things like that. Obama's ad relies on the viewer's skepticism about language, so why wouldn't we be skeptical about his language too?

Especially since "The Truth Team" used to be Attack Watch!