May 9, 2012

Why didn’t all the people who signed the Walker recall petitions bother to vote yesterday?

There were over 900,000 signatures (supposedly valid signatures) on the petitions. That's over 200,000 people who forced this expensive procedure on the state and then didn't care enough to participate.

Who are those people?
  
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(Just pick the best answer. Your desire to vote "all of the above" or 2 or 3 of the above can go in the comments. Those answers make boring results in a poll like this. Deal with it. This isn't pollster science I'm doing here.)

86 comments:

mystickeeper said...

They don't care who opposes Walker, so long as Walker loses.

Matthew Sablan said...

Realistically, I think it is a mixture between social pressure to sign what someone you like put in front of you and laziness. (with, maybe, a few thousand fake names, people not really living there, blank spaces erroneously counted among the signatures, etc.)

Meade said...

Afraid, weak, and lazy. Also, they don't pay taxes and don't really care that these special elections are costing taxpayers millions of dollars.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matthew Sablan said...

... Here's another possibility, I just thought of.

People said yes to the recall, while supporting Walker, solely out of a desire to win again and dance over the ruined dreams of people trying for a recall.

That is highly unlikely, but if I were writing some drama, I'd have people do that.

kristinintexas said...

Ditto mystickeeper - exactly what I came to say. Also, I voted fake signatures, but I think its a combination of that and laziness, with a possible rationale for the laziness being what mystickeeper said.

David said...

Hard to choose between lazy, weak and nonexistent. A little of each, in proportions not knowable.

The real vote comes in June. The triumphal dancing by Walker supporters is premature celebration. You know where that can lead.

kristinintexas said...

But I'm in Texas, obviously, so what do I know? :)

traditionalguy said...

Secret ballot, allows for reality based adjustments that refusing to sign a petition to even allow a vote at a request made in public did not allow.

It worked out for Walker's triumph and it cements his supporters while the news is still favorable to his Reforms.

Douglas2 said...

They thought it was a big enough controversy that it should be put to a popular vote, even though they were personally happy with the status-quo. Or they thought that if it could be demonstrated by vote that a plurality of the voting public were really behind the changes, the demonstrations would end and life would go back to normal.

Douglas2 said...

This is why I was uncomfortable with the thought that known signatories were necessarily biased against Walker

Patrick said...

David said: Hard to choose between lazy, weak and nonexistent.

Lazy, weak and nonexistent is no way to go through life, son.

Dan from Madison said...

If you were at a union meeting and they were passing around petitions, would you NOT sign it?

Also, a commenter mentioned at the last thread, if it was Thanksgiving and one of the persons at the table was, say, a teacher, and circulating a petition would you sign it and keep the peace or let the whole thing blow up?

I have a feeling there was a lot of this, plus WAY more fraud than the GAB cared to inform us about.

edutcher said...

Went with 5, although I think it's a combo of 1 and 3, as well as 5.

But, yeah, this does not bode well.

Shanna said...

A combo of 'don't exist' and 'lazy', with a dash of 'just signed this to get this idiot out of my face or alternately am too polite to say no to people in person'.

Jane said...

In addition to the social pressure, people also put forward the arguement that signing the petition doesn't really mean that you want to recall the man, just that you have the pleasantly democratic motive of enabling an election to take place. Never mind the tremendous expense, of course!

ricpic said...

All of the above, because I can't "deal with it."

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Law of Large Numbers: with so many people involved, the answer almost has to be "All of the above."

Christopher in MA said...

I say a combination of laziness, fear and the natural desire not to rock the boat when a petitioner comes calling (especially if they're in the family, emotionally blackmailing you).

But, as a great philosopher once said, don't get cocky.

BTW, how's garage this morning? Anyone on suicide watch?

Mary Beth said...

Lazy, weak and nonexistent is no way to go through life, son.

Are they now on double secret probation?

AllenS said...

It's because one third of them now feel like fucking idiots.

MadisonMan said...

People are lazy. That is my default explanation for many things. It saves me having to think up real explanations.

Fen said...

Maybe that will be the death of the entitlement parasites - they become too irresponsible to make it to the voting booth.

Although I think we'll run out of money first.

garage mahal said...

What happened to the million+ Walker voters last night showing support for their hero? So much for the silent majority. Er, I mean minority. Walker would have lost last night with Dems getting 52%

Maybe even many Republicans won't support a governor entangled in a nasty criminal corruption probe?

TosaGuy said...

Do you really feel good about those talking points, Garage?

Which campaign strategist feels more confident this morning about the upcoming race -- Walker's or Barrett's?

Fen said...

Hey Garage, how about if Walker wins, you leave the blog for a year. If Barrett wins, I leave the blog for a year.

Deal?

Petunia said...

Let's see. Four Dems together get 52% of the total votes cast, in a crucial election they've been preparing for since BEFORE Governor Walker was even elected, AND just over half of the people who signed recall petitions bothered to come out and vote.

Governor Walker, running effectively unopposed in a primary that the media hardly mentioned, against a joke candidate who was only on the ballot because the GAB gave him extra time to correct filing mistakes, gets 48% of the total votes case, and about half the total number of votes he got in the November 2010 election. Sounds like a pretty good result for the Governor to me.

The lack of political astuteness and critical thinking by most of those on the left shouldn't amaze me, I guess, because after all, these are the same people who voted for Obama, the most unqualified president we have ever had.

phx said...

Do I want a recall is an entirely separate question from Do I want to vote in the recall. I may think for example that it's just for others to have their vote even though I don't want mine. That's their right.

Petunia said...

And really, give it up with the John Doe probe and the legal defense fund. It's a witch hunt by a politically-motivated DA, and it hasn't come up with anything substantive against Walker in two years of digging.

Walker would be an idiot if he discussed it with the media, who've shown their bias again and again, and he'd be an idiot if he didn't have a legal defense fund given the irrationality of the people who are going after him.

Nathan Alexander said...

Hey Garage, how about if Walker wins, you leave the blog for a year. If Barrett wins, I leave the blog for a year.

So if things continue apace, the person behind Garage has one less sockpuppet to use. I don't see how you (or the rest of reader/commenters) gain from this bet.

Dead Dog Bounce said...

Could the turnout be low because yesterday wasn't Dem v Repub, and they didn't care much which Dem went forward?

Patrick said...

Garage, it's the Dems who had the primary. There was no reason for Walker voters to come out - no meaningful opposition. The Dems, on the other hand had all the reason in the world to come out - but didn't.

Funny!

Quaestor said...

I voted "fake", but there was a three-way tie among "fake", "weak" and "lazy".

Christopher in MA said...

What happened to the million+ Walker voters last night showing support for their hero?

Now that's comedy gold coming from you, the mini-Dr Evil who chortled over the ONE MIIILLLIION signatures on the recall petition. It takes FOUR Dems to get 52% and you think it's a win?

Honestly, garage, just change your avatar to Baghdad Bob. Show a little truth in advertising, dude.

Dante said...

I've signed petitions whose ultimate aims I disagree with because I think the people ought to decide.

Quaestor said...

Could the turnout be low because yesterday wasn't Dem v Repub, and they didn't care much which Dem went forward?

From what I read the turnout was considered high for a special election. At least that's how the MJS reported it. What's the real story? Light or heavy?

garage mahal said...

Which campaign strategist feels more confident this morning about the upcoming race -- Walker's or Barrett's?

Hard to say. But if you were Walker, would you rather have less votes than the other team, or more?

AllenS said...

Walker 626,538 votes

Barrett 390,109 votes

What if the Dems that didn't vote for Barrett refuse to vote next time because Barrett just wasn't their guy?

AllenS said...

One person versus a team. Sounds good.

syd B. said...

Billboard just south of Green Bay last week-

"Don't Falk us. We can't Barrett."

Jay said...

rage mahal said...
Wh Er, I mean minority. Walker would have lost last night with Dems getting 52%




Er, the Republican received 626,538 votes, while the two top Democrats took 619,049 combined. Put together the total of all four Democratic candidates, and they manage to beat Mr. Walker’s total, taking 670,278 combined.

Keep plucking that chicken, loser.

You're going to be so, so butt-hurt come June.

Alex said...

Hey everyone, garage is turning into...

*DRUMROLL*

America's Politico!

bagoh20 said...

Laziness, of course. It's the major appeal of the liberal agenda.

In hindsight, it does look like it's all a plan from the right. The left base is our greatest ally. Which is the only reason I can think of that voting for Obama made sense. He's a false flag President. Althouse, you mischievous genius.

Matthew Sablan said...

"What happened to the million+ Walker voters last night showing support for their hero? So much for the silent majority. Er, I mean minority. Walker would have lost last night with Dems getting 52%"

-- Actually, Walker would have won, handily, since the Dems votes were split between two candidates. You do know how elections work, right?

bagoh20 said...

"...if you were Walker, would you rather have less votes than the other team, or more?"

That's it! That's the winning strategy. Just run ten Democrats against Walker, then add their votes together. It's absolutely diabolical, but it could work. Now that's what democracy looks like.

garage mahal said...

Er, the Republican received 626,538 votes, while the two top Democrats took 619,049 combined.

4 Democrats were in the race moron. Who do you think you're fooling with this horseshit? Or, maybe you didn't even know and pasted if from some wingnut blog, which would be just as likely I guess.

Matthew Sablan said...

If we're going to combine all the Democrats votes, does Walker get the 18k from protest Lincoln?

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

4 Democrats were in the race moron. Who do you think you're fooling with this horseshit? Or, maybe you didn't even know and pasted if from some wingnut blog, which would be just as likely I guess.


Um, dipstick, why do you think you cut off my post when quoting it?

Is it because you're a drooling imbecile or because you're beyond reading comprehension?

Neither scenario reflects well on you.

Jay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay said...

Just think how pathetic garagie's little life is.

He has to tally up the votes of 4 Democrats to pretend the candidate he hates is unpopular.

Meanwhile, despite "1 million signatures!" said deeply unpopular candidate polls ahead of the Dem who used Walkers reforms.

Why, it is almost as if garage is an incoherent loon or something.

Superdad said...

There is a victory in this primary for the state of Wisconsin. The primary voters rejected the ultra-progressive Falk in favor of the more centrists,less union owned Barrett. That's a win for the state regardless of how the general election turns out.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

I voted "lazy." That's pretty much my default assumption when people don't turn out to vote. Not that laziness is a bad thing in an electorate; I'd far rather have a smaller number of voters that have some actual interest in the outcome -- enough to have educated themselves on the questions at issue -- than a larger one that votes by rote.

The mystery to me is the huge Walker turnout. Was there widespread fear that his challenger would win (due to crossover votes or whatever)? I didn't even know that anyone was running against him on the Republican side until Ann posted about it a couple of days ago. Amazing that 600K+ people showed up to vote for him.

Michael K said...

Walker has to feel pretty good today. In spite of Garage's efforts at damage control, those "million" petition signers didn't show up. It looks like loser, loser, loser to me.

EMD said...

GM thinks Walker will lose to Barrett. This is possible, but Barrett needs to garner support from all of the democrats who voted in the primary in time to oppose Walker in June.

And Walker hasn't even started running against Barrett yet.

Had Barrett received most of the 670k votes in his primary, I would be more willing to accept that Walker is in more trouble.

garage mahal said...

He has to tally up the votes of 4 Democrats to pretend the candidate he hates is unpopular.

4 Democrats were in the race, plus Riggs. That's 55,000 more votes than Walker. Spin that any way you want. I honestly don't give a shit what you think anyway.

Matthew Sablan said...

"The mystery to me is the huge Walker turnout."

-- I would have voted for him simply to help deny a narrative that he lacked support. Which would have happened if he didn't get a reasonable vote tally.

Curious George said...

One thing is for sure from leading all the lefty comments in this post and others, the Recall really is simply about retribution. The lazy selfish union fucks are not going to get their collective bargaining back, they don't care who represents them, they can't even keep a reason for the recall for more than a fucking week. It's about workers rights, no it's about the children, no it's about women, no it's about jobs. Who are you crappin?!?

Tom Barrett is going to be squashed like the cockroaches that he now represents. But don't feel bad, on June 7th he will still have his cozy gig as mayor of Milwaukee, where he can constinue to do nothing as much of the city continues to swirl in the bowl.

section9 said...

Uh, even some of the Good Government DEMOCRATS aren't buying into the mass of propaganda being thrown at them by the DNC and the Unions?

Wisconsin is in better fiscal shape than it was before Walker took office, AND it is attracting private investment.

Voters see this and will reward Walker at the polls. It has nothing to do with him being a Republican.

AllieOop said...

EMD, those who voted for Vinehout, LaFollette, Falk and Kohl-Riggs will come out and vote for Barrett, that is not a concern for Democrats.

garage mahal said...

GM thinks Walker will lose to Barrett. This is possible, but Barrett needs to garner support from all of the democrats who voted in the primary in time to oppose Walker in June.

And Walker hasn't even started running against Barrett yet.



I've never said Barrett will win. And Walker has already started running against Barrett.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
He has to tally up the votes of 4 Democrats to pretend the candidate he hates is unpopular.

4 Democrats were in the race, plus Riggs. That's 55,000 more votes than Walker. Spin that any way you want. I honestly don't give a shit what you think anyway.



Hey loser, Walker ran basically unopposed.

Of course you can't think about that because you're in full piss your pants mode.

Again, you're going to be so, so butt hurt in June.

Kirk Parker said...

Nathan,

Fen's getting lazy, and wants to take a break from commenting, but this way we don't know that.



(Fen: j/k, ok??????)

traditionalguy said...

Garage must be in mourning this morning. Let's be nice to him until he recovers.

It will not be easy to adjust to The Night They Drove old Unions Down.

Christopher in MA said...

Tradguy, I'd suggest Althouse and Meade get ready to preserve the Walker recall election night thread for posterity. If garage is losing his shit this eary, June promises to be a meltdown of Chernobyl proportions.

garage mahal said...

Garage must be in mourning this morning. Let's be nice to him until he recovers.

Just let me know what I'm supposed to be mourning over, and I'll think about it. I'm impervious to right wing spin. It doesn't work.

Even if Walker gets beat, it's not like it's the end of it. They grow people like Walker in vats in Kansas, if he goes down, another 100 million dollar drone just pops right back up.

Nathan Alexander said...

Even if Walker gets beat, it's not like it's the end of it. They grow people like Walker in vats in Kansas, if he goes down, another 100 million dollar drone just pops right back up.

This is bargaining stage of grief, right? Or is it resignation?

alan markus said...

According to Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 400,000 of the recall petitions signers did not vote in 2010. Factor out the ones under the age of 20 (couldn't vote in 2010) & that explains at least 200,000 right there. Good luck getting those 400,000 motivated to vote in June.

Walker-Barrett

traditionalguy said...

Garage @1:27 essentially repeated what Scarlet O'Hara said after the Yankees destroyed her beloved Tara and took away its slaves," Tomorrow is another day." And they are both right.

Madison, Wisconsin is a passionate place. And Garage is a good man. They will make a comeback.

garage mahal said...

This is bargaining stage of grief, right? Or is it resignation?

Just reality. Walker isn't particularly bright. He didn't think of all this on his own. None of these goobers in the legislature were smart enough either - all these bills were written by ALEC and the like.

Dante said...

Am I right about this? Republicans had little reason to ensure their candidate got the nomination, yet 620 thousand of them went to the polls anyway? Was anything else of note on the poll?

furious_a said...

I vote #6: "Teachers' Union couldn't print enough fake doctors' notes to excuse their members to spend all day voting multiple times at different polling places.

alan markus said...

Republicans had little reason to ensure their candidate got the nomination, yet 620 thousand of them went to the polls anyway?

And that is 55.5% of the vote that Walker got in 2010. The Dems combined was 66.7% of Barrett's total in 2010. By himself, Barrett got 38.8% of his 2010 vote.

In the big picture, maybe not meaningful. Leading up to the primary it was noted that because recall elections are rare, it would be hard to infer any analysis based on yesterday's results.

traditionalguy said...

Garage is impervious to right wing spin. That is a needed trait.

The Reagan conservatives are better at economics than Socialists. But the GOP regimes tend to sell out to the highest bidder as if that is their job.

As a lawyer with a son still active in Plaintiff's litigation, I know how hard hearted the Bush appointees in Federal District Courts are in eliminating (by new Expert Witness fiat rules at a judges discretion) the rights of recovery that belong to legitimately injured plaintiffs. It has become as bad as Chavez in expropriating property of Venezuelans.

Over the last 7 years the GOP appointed judges in the system are significantly rigging outcomes in favor of the Corporations and the defense firms who "win" for thir Insurance companies.

And when a serious known medical need has new treatments found, getting the new treatments funded is nearly impossible.

We really do NOT want Rick Perry's Texas style that protects Corporations from the legal system extended everywhere.

So I have also become quasi-impervious to mindless right wing spin.

But Obama is another matter He actually is an enemy 5th column agent inside the Government. He is not a liberal; and real liberals need to help the right wing to get him out while we still have a country left.

Calypso Facto said...

I like Terry Moulton's chances for Senate re-election in EC/Chippewa. His Dem opponent Kristen Dexter only drew 64% of the vote in the Dem primary against one of garage's favorite "fake" Democrats that no one had even heard of before yesterday.

JAL said...

I did some of the petition checking.

It's was clear there were family or neighborhood groups (not unexpected). Some names were prnted, sopme siognatures completely illegible, but I usually gave those the benefit of the doubt, since signatures are an art form, it seems.

The petitions were checked by more than one person (i.e. if there were questionables or unknowns on it someone else apparently gave it a look).

I was surprised that only 4 turned up "fake." A fifth "fake" was a woman who someone found on Ffacebook, therefore she must be is "real" (?) and they included her. But note that she was not found on the list of registered voters.

Are there that many people who are not registered to vote in WI?

I think some people had second thoughts. What seemed like a good idea (boot Walker) turned out, when they looked at real numbers, like a not so good idea if they realized their money would be affected adversely.

But in reality I think most of the no-shows were too lazy to go vote.

roesch/voltaire said...

It is very difficult for "crisp conservatives" to accept that nearly a million folks did sign the petitions, especially when they predicted that this could not possibly happen, but it did. I suspect folks are nervous because the polls show Walker with only a one point lead over Barrett, and depending on the energy Barrett can sum up, and any further revelations from the investigation causing more Walker aids to get arrested-- well who knows what could happen.

JAL said...

Little OT -- any thoughts on why more people voted in the Dem Lt Gov race than in the Dem Gov race?

alan markus said...

any thoughts on why more people voted in the Dem Lt Gov race than in the Dem Gov race

Republicans who voted for Walker were able to jump down the ballot and vote for whoever they wanted to run against Rebecca Kleefisch - whomever they perceived as beatable. There was a "protest" candidate, although the Republicans did not have a wide spread effort to encourage anyone to vote for him. Also, the votes that Kohls-Riggs got (against Walker) were most likely Dems that then voted for the Lt. Gov. candidate that they think could beat Kleefisch.

Robin said...

The petition signers, minus the many faked signatures, were merely vandals - happy to clog up society but not responsible enough to show up and clean up their mess.

It didn't matter if Republicans showed up to vote at all for Walker in this ballot, and he still came up with almost as many votes as all the Democrat candidates.

That's a pretty good predictor that Walker will easily win the recall itself.

Robin said...

"But the GOP regimes tend to sell out to the highest bidder as if that is their job."

This is the kind of patently ignorant nonsense that Democrats give us. Who is selling out to Hollywood with oppressive "anti-piracy" legislation? Democrats. Who is known as "President Goldman Sachs"? A Democrat.

Who misappropriated a billion dollars of client money, and is not only still free, not only not charged at all, but is bundling donations for President Obama? Democrat Jon Corzine.

Matthew Sablan said...

Robin: That's solely because the GOP hasn't been given the opportunity to do many of those things yet. Give them a few years with a comfortable majority again.

traditionalguy said...

Robin... Nice return shot. That was as good of a "everybody does it" defense as I've seen since Bill Clinton had to use it so much.

The GOP is not as user friendly as the social conservatives give them credit for.

John Stodder said...

It is very difficult for "crisp conservatives" to accept that nearly a million folks did sign the petitions, especially when they predicted that this could not possibly happen, but it did.

This message, once so compelling, is now officially behind the curve. It doesn't matter anymore. The new high water mark is that 626,000 people turned out to vote for Scott Walker even though his nomination was never in doubt. That's more than the Democrats were able to get out for their top two candidates.

Turning out to vote > Signing a petition.

Matthew Sablan said...

I don't see why we keep spotting them a second Democrat if we're not taking that 18k the other Republican left on the ground (even if he wasn't legit). Apples to apples, folks. 1v1.

Steven said...

Garage hangs on to the raw vote totals because that's all he has, folks. Any analysis (like, "if just one in twenty votes in the Dem primary were cast by Walker supporters who wanted to influence the contested primary, more Walker supporters went to the polls yesterday than Walker opponents") makes it immediately obvious that the vote was a very bad sign for anti-Walker forces.

You can't really expect Garage to be emotionally mature enough to face that.

Northwoods Space Girl said...

I know a few people who did not sign the petition and voted for Falk in order to support the less viable Democrat. Those people will vote for Walker come June and I think there are many others who did the same. I had zero interest in voting in the primary, but will also vote for Walker come June -- and I'm sure there are many others like me. I think the recall is unlikely.