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ADDED: Who decided that Obama should start pronouncing the word "business": bid-ness. Is that supposed to make us feel that this country is back to work?
AND: What are those beams of light shooting in from the upper right? It's nighttime. Did they set up some spotlights? Or is that the light of God?
ALSO: Amazingly unbelievable assertion: "I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
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165 comments:
No. I am not a masochist.
He's just reading the teleprompter. We can read the text later, much faster, without having to listen to all the hand slapping.
I'm with Tradguy!
Nope.
Can't stand the guy.
How many poses did he strike tonight?
I can't believe it, but yes, we are watching President Disingenuous.
Nope - I never watch pols speechify. To me, it's like having to read Ritmo's comments.
Listening now.
Repeatedly, Obama seems to be saying to congress: "send me a unicorn pony and I will ride it."
More leading from behind. Obama's got more empty "ideas" than Newt Gingrich.
No.
I have only broadcast TV, so have had to resort to Cold Case reruns and some old Ninja movie while I surf Althouse and get some work done.
A Jimmy Carter quote came to mind when I saw the preview headline on Drudge -- or someplace I was, avoiding this thing.
Carter: "Life is not fair."
Smartest thing he ever said.
Obama should take note.
But won't.
Nope, I am almost certain I'll never listen to him read a teleprompter again, be it just one more year or God forbid, five more.
Molly Ivins! That who started the word "bid-ness." May she rest in peace.
AA: What are those beams of light shooting in from the upper right? It's nighttime. Did they set up some spotlights? Or is that the light of God?
Are you trying to make us look?
You jus' a hater. Playa' gonna' rap like a brother should. Just cause you whiter 'en "Snow White" don' mean you can cum in here, all disrespectin' a strong black man, 'n' shit.
Apologies to your black readers, but I really hate it when politicians pander, and if Obozo pandered anymore, he'd be in white face, while wearing black face, and singing "Mammie"
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would care what this ass has to say about anything. To paraphrase Tim Leary, "tune out, turn off, and then turn out" of the WH.
Yes, and I'm playing my SOTU game - when Obama started talking, I started drinking.
"I've increased veterans spending every year I've been President"
You've increased ALL spending every year you've been President!
"STFU" seems more appropriate.
"That day in the situation room" when I killed Bin Laden.
This is pathetic.
Althouse: enduring the unendurable so the rest of us don't have to.
I'm watching. Obama seems half drunk. He keeps missing words. We'll wait decades to hear what he imbibed before this pathetic speech.
I am, but wondering why. When he was elected someone I know said the presidency would be transformative for American cities...did he even mention our urban centers? yawn....next leader, please.
I caught about four minutes at a friend's house since it was on in the other room. Half of what I heard was about what will happen in the future if we re-elect him, like raising the lifetime earnings of each classroom by $250,000. And I thought, "Is this the State of the Union, or a Projection of the Future?" Then I recalled how horrible he's been with projections thus far, ranging from unemployment to the CLASS act to Obamacare to green jobs, and I stopped listening.
Ann Althouse said...
He's just reading the teleprompter.
Althouse summarizes the Obama Presidency in five words.
"Althouse: enduring the unendurable so the rest of us don't have to."
Well... I'm not really watching. Intermittently. I didn't commit to live-blog. That's a horrible mistake.
"I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would care what this ass has to say about anything."
Well, he is the President. The only President we've got, as LBJ would put it.
Right about now, I bet Paul Ryan is wishing he had run for president this time around. My guess is that he would already have the GOP nomination. Watching Ryan debate Obama on economic policy would be must-see TV.
November cant get here soon enough.
"I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
Show you how little BHO thinks of us.
AA I didn't commit to live-blog. That's a horrible mistake.
Not committing to live blog?
Or live blogging?
He never mentioned ObamaCare, the singular "achievment" of his term, once.
Maybe those rays of light are Lincoln reassembling himself in bodily form. He and Obama could debate the role of government. Or just have a talk. Imagine: Lincoln and Obama having a talk.
Is anyone drunk yet?
"...unbelievable assertion..."
Not unbelievable at all. I've long said the same. We are all children of western political thought, and as such, students of limited govternment and want it as small as possible. We just have different definitions of what what government does better. For the right most, that would be defense only, maybe highways. For those on the left fringe, that may include food, clothing, shelter and health care to subsistence levels. But no one wants government involved in anything they do not consider necessary.
He never mentioned ObamaCare, the singular "achievment" of his term, once.
He's more interested in saying that the "American Dream" can be achieved by anyone, and then in the next breath rip anyone who has been successful or made any money in their lives as worthless scum who "dont pay their fair share".
That, in a nutshell, is Obama's economic vision.
The only person who could write that is someone who believes that people cannot do for themselves and that the government ought to do a few of those things (like reading, writing, arithmetic, [purchasing; food, cars, electricity, housing], cleaning the house and toilet) because the proles cannot make do.
It's a sad state of affairs.
I love the latest update. And he's totally right. The government throws a way better cowboy poetry slam than I could put together, and I can't hold a candle to its knack for smuggling guns into Mexico.
Obama's economic plan for the future:
1.) Outlaw ATMs
2.) Increase GDP by by doubling the number of food stamp recipients?
3.) Profit!
Trickle down government. Mitch Daniel's speechwriter for President!
Mitch Daniels is speaking now. He stopped drinking before Obama did.
Obama defeats Newt (with VP: Perry or Santorum) in all 50-US-states, plus Guam. I mean defeat, like in disaster defeat.
The GOP will lose everything. It is going to be a blood-bath.
Tonight it begins. Watch what happens.
Oh, that's Mitch Daniels?
Huh.
I'm still with the notion of unicorn riding. What a charming notion after a tuff day.
Didn't watch SOTU, but currently watching Mitch Daniels do an effective response. He looks almost corpselike in the face from some sort of profuse base makeup, but otherwise he's doing well. Maybe Kristol's on to something.
PS He mentions light bulbs!
"Without their help, we might pick the wrong light bulb"
Help me, Obama!!!
How terribly sad that the first black President has created a nation of slaves.
how is it an effective response if you don't watch the state of the union.
Please put modern family on now ABC!
Pathetic. The only problem is the Repubs are worse. Kinda patheticx2
Obama: "We've come too far to turn back now"
Uh, yeah. That's what we are all worried about.
Obama defeats Newt (with VP: Perry or Santorum) in all 50-US-states, plus Guam. I mean defeat, like in disaster defeat.
Drinking this much is bad for you.
The fact that a President of the United States used a State of the Union speech to spew about "economic inequality" shows exactly what kind of mental midget is currently the leader of the free world.
What the fuck is happening to this country?
I'm not smart anuf to have my kids eat healthy food. Can you help me Mr. President?
How terribly sad that the first black President has created a nation of slaves.
Apparently you can't see them from the links.
How terribly sad that the first black President has created a nation of slaves
Post of the night. Because its so true.
It's effective cuz Daniels makes some good points that need to be said now, regardless of whatever some tool said before him. Plus I have a life and this is the first chance I've had today to watch TV and surf the web.
We re-watched A Spy in the House of Love on DVD instead. I must say that it's a close call between a trip to the attic and watching Obama's SOTU, but the effect seems about the same.
Ann Althouse said...
"He's just reading the teleprompter. We can read the text later, much faster, without having to listen to all the hand slapping."
So why even give the speech? Go back to the written SOTU! It can't make it worse, it might make it better, and it'd certainly be less demeaning to our government.
So did the Supreme Court show up this year?
I'd take a trip to the Dollhouse attic before I listen to this guy read a speech again.
Supreme Court folk were: Roberts, Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, and Kagan.
Amazingly unbelievable assertion.
Only one?
FWIW I heard Black drill sergeants pronounce "business" as "bid-ness" (with the glottal stop between syllables) forty-three years ago. I never heard it pronounced that way before or since (by any person of any ethnic heritage). Is this a ghetto thing, like pronouncing "ask" as "ax"? Not that Hyde Park is in any way a ghetto, of course.
No Alito? What a surprise. He probably had a prior engagement. Those sock drawers don't rearrange themselves.
Valarie Jarrett says Daniels "didn't have a very optimistic view of our future."
Understatement of the night.
"Pathetic. The only problem is the Repubs are worse. Kinda patheticx2"
So nice, let's post it twice ...
>
Again, elections come done to choices and an incumbent has many advantages!
Supreme Court folk were: Roberts, Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, and Kagan.
And Roberts probably "had" to come.
Mitch Daniels blew me away. I always saw him as a Bush tool before.
But he has a "connect with the viewer" skill in his eyes and demeanor big time.
He seems to me to be an educated Scots-Irish Presbyterian, so he naturally he connected with me instantly.
No longer a joke, Gingrich needs him as his VP. Then if the Dems impeach Newt, or if Newtron just resigns to do something that he suddenly likes better, we will have a good leader ready to go.
I'm still with the notion of unicorn riding. What a charming notion after a tuff day.
I'm here to ruin that charming notion.
"What are those beams of light shooting in from the upper right? It's nighttime. Did they set up some spotlights? Or is that the light of God?"
That's exactly what I was thinking: Obama is starting his campaign kick-off with the presentation as the new Messiah.
Well, it worked for him the first time, didn't it?
No. I still want to ride a unicorn.
Irregardless.
Supreme Court folk were: Roberts, Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, and Kagan.
Wise Latina, indeed.
On a side note — does word verification not work for some people? I have to go through the rigamarole at least 3 times to put up a post, even though I get the letters right the first 2 times.
@David
I got one dick but I ain't gonna listen to what it says either. (last time I did, I got in trouble) :-)
@ Americas Politico
Hah, I've said before that you were the greatest satist to ever live, and now I have proof. Even the first Wookie is not thinkimg this is gonna be a cake walk for Obozo.
Sonia was probably out speaking Spanish and being empathetic to people again. How dare she be that wise.
"""We just have different definitions of what what government does better"""
That's why we have that document called the Constitution in which we all in our consent agreed what the proper role of government! Enumerated powers! Reserved to the People! It all fits together.
A decent, but not amazing speech. And one thing is for sure. While I don't agree with everything this President has said or done, he certainly is a better class of person than most of his political opponents. All you have to do is look at many of the commenters here to notice that.
Ann Althouse said...
"Supreme Court folk [included] Roberts"
Disappointing. One can see why, but it just seems, ahem... banana.
Bidness, huh?
Maybe that 58% approval among blacks is for real.
traditionalguy said...
Mitch Daniels blew me away. I always saw him as a Bush tool before.
But he has a "connect with the viewer" skill in his eyes and demeanor big time.
He seems to me to be an educated Scots-Irish Presbyterian, so he naturally he connected with me instantly.
And if he'd been Michele Daniels, you'd want to marry him, uh, her?
Get a grip, tg.
somefeller said...
A decent, but not amazing speech. And one thing is for sure. While I don't agree with everything this President has said or done, he certainly is a better class of person than most of his political opponents.
Sure, the way Perry and Cain and Romney provided a chance so thousands of people could have productive livelihoods was so nefarious.
And Big Mike, the pronunciation of business as bidness is not a "ghetto thing". (Doesn't that line say something?). It is not uncommon to hear that pronunciation in Texas or other Southern places, among people of all races. Though I didn't notice Obama using that pronunciation tonight anyway. But you are still a dumbass.
You watching?
No
just words
I think Pope Benedict's response to the State of the Union was pretty good.
(He released a message today exhorting the value of silence.)
I have to go through the rigamarole at least 3 times to put up a post, even though I get the letters right the first 2 times.
You too?
I noticed that I had to wait a long time before it accepted them. So I was thinking they had been rejected ... Thought it was my computer.
Unknown said...
"'We just have different definitions of what what government does better' That's why we have that document called the Constitution in which we all in our consent agreed what the proper role of government! Enumerated powers! Reserved to the People! It all fits together."
That's a great bit of Paul-ish rhetoric, but it's not really correct. The Constitution sets the outer bounds of what government can do. It does not settle the question of whether government should perform any given function that's permissible under the Constitution--that question is best settled instead by questions such as "does government do this better than the private sector."
@ HT
You may want to ride a unicorn still, just not that one... truly disturbing.
Patrick was making suggestions for a drinking game out of the dummy's speech sorta like "Hello Bob" from the old Bob Newhart show.(as opposed t the new Newhart show).
I was gonna suggest using the word "I", but I came to my senses and realized that not that many people own a liquor store.
OMG! Mitch Daniels!! Whoo Hoo! Let's hear it for moderate Republicans!(tweet!tweet!) Yowza! Once you go WASP, you never go back!
(I am underwhelmed)
The one group of people dumber than O'bots, the GOP, didn't even use their favorite to rebut?
Romney going down in the polls faster than a Democrat intern in the Clinton White House, and you use some one not even running?
Or maybe the elites are PRAYING for a brokered convention now, and this is our intro to the new fair haired boy. (many people run serpentine to get out of trouble, I think serpentine to avoid it)
Amazingly unbelievable assertion: "I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
Oh, I'm sure he believes that. Included in the list"
- pay taxes
- work for the glory of the Democrat Party
"Bidness" is a Texan pronunciation. You know, like "nucular", only way more sophisticated.
The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more.
Like eat. And drive! And illuminate their homes!
How terribly sad that the first black President has created a nation of slaves.
There can only be slaves when a white man occupies the white house.
We re-watched A Spy in the House of Love on DVD instead. I must say that it's a close call between a trip to the attic and watching Obama's SOTU, but the effect seems about the same.
I'm watching "And Those We've Left Behind" which I don't think is too bad considering that I only started watching the show during Christmas.
Why, no, Carol, Molly Ivins should rot in hell, or burn in hell, or do whatever evil people do in hell, or if there is no hell, she should certainly get no closer to Heaven than the dog she named Shit. It's funny that you like her.
Charles Murray had a better take: Government shouldn't do anything for people that they can do for themselves, even if it thinks it can do it better.
whether "bid-ness" is a southern thing or a ghetto thing (it's ebonics), barack is from neither the south nor the ghetto so it's affected speech intended to telegraph his coolness and street-cred. he turns the ebonics on and off just like harry reid told us he could.
It is not uncommon to hear that pronunciation in Texas or other Southern places, among people of all races.
Actually, it's a phonological quality peculiar to African American Vernacular English ("ebonics") that word-medial open-stop consonant clusters (the /s/ to /n/ transition in "business") be replaced with stop-stop consonant clusters (the /d/ to /n/ transition in "bidness"). I have relatives all over the South, from east Georgia to the Texas panhandle, and I've not once heard any white person pronounce it "bidness."
While I don't agree with everything this President has said or done, he certainly is a better class of person than most of his political opponents.
This is the same president who said during '08 presidential campaign that "if they (meaning the Republicans) bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun."
But yeah, he's a better class of person.
The beams of light were weird, not because they were there (they're needed for good TV quality) but because they glowed bluish. It looked like a smoke-filled room. At one time, I have no doubt it was. But that would have been at least a generation ago.
Your third point -- his Lincoln quote -- brought home to me just how much dishonest we were hearing. Like so many Americans, when we hear a president speak we give him the benefit of any doubt. I do the same with Obama until I hear him saying something like saying he agrees with Lincoln. He doesn't, and we all know he doesn't. But we let it go unless we stop and focus on the statement, at which point we (or at least I) realize he's flat out lying. And that made me start to count what I knew were dishonest statements. There were a lot.
Thorley Winston, I think that's Fringe rather than Dollhouse.
EMD said...
On a side note — does word verification not work for some people? I have to go through the rigamarole at least 3 times to put up a post, even though I get the letters right the first 2 times.
I have all kinds of trouble with it with Chrome and Safari.
I believe it's a Javascript thing.
YMMV.
WV "tanto" The Lone Ranger's other Indian companion. She knew 69 positions, most of them could be done on a horse.
I gave Fringe a try but it just didn't engage. Dollhouse, however, dug its claws in right away and never let go (notwithstanding a few really jolting gear changes). And it raises interesting questions: What's the Christian perspective on the attic, for example? To be sure, Dollhouse wasn't airtight; like the Ringworld, it was unstable. But it was a lot of fun, even if Eliza is a walking near occasion of sin.
After perusing the comments, I may have misjudged Obozo's ability to unite the country-lol
As far as Somefellers assertion that "bidness" is a southern thing? Maybe south Philly, or south LA, but having lived in the south all my life, I've very rarely heard it come out of a white persons mouth. Not saying it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen a lot.
As for class? I don't care what class you are from. You will get treated with the class you deserve. If someone acts kind and gracious to me, I reciprocate. If someone calls me a "bitter clinger", and tells me to shut up because he won, guess what? They get the peace sign, with one digit missing.
PS. I don't care what color Obama is either. Before he was president I used to reserve this kind of vitriol for Jimmy Carter, a southern white man, and all the Kennedy's except Jack, again all white men.
No garage in the comments section?
The only politician I'd pay to hear was Ronald Reagan. Too bad I was just a small child at the time.
I watched it, hoping for some Repub fireworks. All I got was fake sunbeams from the heavens, shining upon The One. And more dopey Special Guests Who Did Nothing to Deserve It.
Mitch Daniels was much better.
JAL said...
"I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
Show you how little BHO thinks of us."
It's evidence-based politics.
People bought that the affirmative action, least qualified man ever nominated for president should actually be president - why would, or should, he think any more of us? He could tell us he believes in limited government, balanced budgets, and soaring, free-markets - and too many Americans would believe it.
Everybody loves the sound of a train in the distance. Everybody thinks its true.
I guess it kind of depends on your relation to those 'rules that are fair for everybody to live with.' I'm put off by the Sunshine Act that requires every little gratuity in education to a physician be a public record. When I started my practice, BMS provided me with some letterhead stationary. Patients are going to want letters for administrative purposes. I didn't have to learn about getting that before I opened my doors. Now that is prohibited. On the other hand, does the government help me get the reimbursement for doing electronic health records. Absolutely not. 'They don't want you to get the money,' one doc told me.
ALSO: Amazingly unbelievable assertion: "I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
I believe that is a misquote. Lincoln said that government should do for people what they CAN'T do for themselves.
Huge differnce.
The latter is known as the safety net. The government will help you when you really need it.
The former is the entitlement state and a recipe for federal meddling because the government always thinks it can do it better even when evidence shows that it can't.
For example, I like to lose weight, but I have problems sticking to a diet and a workout program. According to Obama's misquote that gives the government all the justification it needs to run my workout and eating program.
"I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
...the devil being in the details: 1) what are the things that fall into the category of "only" that "the people" cannot do better for themselves? and 2) what is meant by "the people," "cannot do better" and "only"? And what's up with the "no more"part? Isn't that 'outcome' entirely dependent on the rest?
Good grief.
ALSO: Amazingly unbelievable assertion: "I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
I believe that is a misquote. Lincoln said that government should do for people what they CAN'T do for themselves.
The actual quote is probably from a fragment of Lincoln's writings from 1854:
" The legitimate object of government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done, but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves, in their separate and individual capacities. In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere.
The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more.
What a lying sack of shit.
Don't be silly, he meant "bid-ness" not "business.
He was sending a message to his donors that all his policies were biddable: taxpayers' money would be awarded to the highest bidder, e.g. in the last round, $535 million taxpayers' money was awarded to a billionaire bundler who had bidden $500,000 for the jackpot.
In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere.
Worth pondering, as opposed to skimming over.
What are those beams of light shooting in from the upper right?
Heh. My word verification provided the answer. sapplit
While I don't agree with everything this President has said or done, he certainly is a better class of person than most of his political opponents
Bullshit. Obama is a preening, condescending, narcissistic prick.
He is easily the most classless President I've ever witnessed.
A friend said his mother pronounces the word potato as butayduh. It gets on his nerves so he snapped, "Ma! How many 'b's in the word potato?
She could have said, "None of your bidwax."
My sister says, "for all intensive purposes."
FWIW, I found a good chunk of the section of tonight's SOTU speech focused on education chilling both in terms of public education AND homeschooling.
This is not a good thing. It was quite a feat, of sorts, to be sure, but still: This is not a good thing.
somefeller said...
And Big Mike, the pronunciation of business as bidness is not a "ghetto thing". (Doesn't that line say something?). It is not uncommon to hear that pronunciation in Texas or other Southern places, among people of all races
And yet Obama is not from the South.
Funny that, huh?
somefeller said...
A decent, but not amazing speech. And one thing is for sure. While I don't agree with everything this President has said or done, he certainly is a better class of person than most of his political opponents.
Yes!
Because endlessly demonizing "millionaires and billionaires" as greedy and calling people bitter clingers is just so classy.
With Obama, watch what he does, not what he says. They are often very different.
"The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
Is this something Lincoln actually said? It sounds like the expression of a contemporary concern, rather than a concern of Lincoln's place and time.
Also, whoever said it, as it's phrased it does not really say anything at all: interpretations of "what people can do better by themselves" are apt to vary widely (and wildly).
After all, there's plenty I think the government can do better (and more cheaply) for the people than can the people for themselves, but someone else can read it to mean there's almost nothing the government can do for the people better than they can for themselves.
"With Obama, watch what he does, not what he says. They are often very different."
Oh, please.
This is fundamentally true for every politician. Obama is hardly an extraordinary example of this universal trait of his ilk.
The nation's middle class is at risk because of evil globalist charlatans like Teh Won, bought and paid for.
No joke.
"The fact that a President of the United States used a State of the Union speech to spew about "economic inequality" shows exactly what kind of mental midget is currently the leader of the free world."
Globalization, coming to a neighborhood near you. Democrats will be the first to bear the mark.
wv - revatera
The camera shot that stuck on the beams of light shining down was ridiculous.
Oh wait, was Tim Tebow in the gallery?
Obama's assertion that "the government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more" is not unbelievable: not if you see people as by and large part of a helpless herd: the fundamental leftist worldview, from which flows endless "helping."
We recorded "House' and watched it instead of the SOTU address (last year it was 'Justified' we watched.
Far more entertaining than this farce of a SOTU.
Still the BS detector went off all night. Must have somehow got the SOTU airwaves.
As Donald Trump would say, "You are fired" come November Obama.
"The legitimate object of government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done, but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves, in their separate and individual capacities. In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere."
Okay...not this sounds like something Lincoln would have said...or written, as was the case here.
It still opens the door for many interpretations of what government "should" do for the people, and cannot be seen as a cut and dried statement supporting the idea that the government should do nothing or little for us.
"The only politician I'd pay to hear was Ronald Reagan. Too bad I was just a small child at the time."
Yeah...as President, Reagan was a great actor.
"...w e just have different definitions of what what government does better. For the right most, that would be defense only, maybe highways. For those on the left fringe, that may include food, clothing, shelter and health care to subsistence levels..."
So for the left, that pretty much includes having the government involved in pretty much every facet of our lives.
Thanks for clarifying.
Flyers v. Panthers and Penguins v. Blues last night and what's on NBC Sports and FSSW? Wild v. Avalanche or Ducks v. Stars.
"Didn't watch SOTU, but currently watching Mitch Daniels do an effective response. He looks almost corpselike...."
If you didn't watch SOTU, how can you tell Daniels' response is "effective?" You don't know what he's responding to!
Unless you're impressed--as I guess we all must be--that a corpse can talk at all!
"I'm a Democrat, but I believe what Republican Abraham Lincoln believed: The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more."
Simply doesn't square with his comments about the Constitution being a document of negative rights. Completely transparent bullshit on the part of Obama.
Surprise, surprise.
Scott M said...
"Simply doesn't square with his comments about the Constitution being a document of negative rights."
The Constitution is a document of negative rights. What are you talking about?
Cook, it's obvious you can't read for comprehension very well, so please tell me what boffo part of Barry's speech did I miss. Please leave out the boilerplate Demo talking points about Republican obstruction and class warfare. Anything left after that?
The Constitution is a document of negative rights. What are you talking about?
Obama said it's a list of what the government can't to you, with which I agree. He considers it lacking because that's all it mentions.
What are you talking about?
Did Abraham Lincoln say that government should only do what people can not do *better*?
And why wouldn't that be a believable statement from Obama? It all has to do with whatever is believed about the word "better".
Yesterday (I think it was) Althouse said that she didn't trust private charities to manage huge funds well (or something like that). Well, of course they won't do it *well*, but they still tend to do better than government. And charities closer to home, closer to the need, tend to identify that need more accurately and what ought to be done about it than government can, though the notion that private charities might be focused on a variety of odd but not particularly useful things (dogs and cats) is likely also true. (Except that we expect government to do some things that leave us the leisure to worry about dogs and cats.)
But my point... all that depends on how a person defines better, and what they believe about the inherent efficiency or inefficiency of government.
A big government person, nay a HUGE government person, could make Obama's statement without the blink of an eye.
Revenant said...
The government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more.
What a lying sack of shit.
Well put. And succinct.
Edit, edit edit. delete delete delete. Strunk & White.
I spent the evening playing guitar and reading PD James impersonating Jane Austen. Weird.
"he certainly is a better class of person"
So long as you're not "nice enough" or can be referred to as a pig wearing lipstick or are a youthful looking reporter.
How about that... I agree completely with Cook.
I'm as big a political grognard as the rest of you, but has anyone else got political fatigue to the point of wishing we could skip all the bullshit between now and November 4th and just vote already, letting the chips fall where they will?
Scott, I wonder if the problem is just that you're not familiar with the argot whence those terms are drawn. When we talk about negative rights in ConLaw, we mean a right that obliges the government to leave you alone in a particular regard, as opposed to a positive right which obliges the government to give you what you need to exercise the right. Thus the First Amendment, broadly-speaking, prevents government from hauling you down of your soapbox; it does not oblige the government to provide you with a soapbox. Even the supposed "right to abortion" is a negative right: The government can't interfere in a women's right to choose to kill her unborn child, but it's not obliged, as it would be if abortion were a positive right, to facilitate or pay for the exercise of that right. I think I'm right in saying—this is just off the cuff and in the midst of only the first cup of coffee—that the only positive right in the Constitution (besides a few due process quirks like Brady) is the right to counsel, and that only because of the Warren Court's gloss.
""What are those beams of light shooting in from the upper right?"
I didn't watch the speech but I've seen pictures of the beams of light... any lighting designer will tell you (I'm a professional photographer) that if you want to see actual BEAMS of light, you have to use a fog machine or pump some sort of smoke into the air. Beams don't just show up in clean air. Did they REALLY fire up a fog machine for the SOTU? Fascinating!
When we talk about negative rights in ConLaw, we mean a right that obliges the government to leave you alone in a particular regard, as opposed to a positive right which obliges the government to give you what you need to exercise the right.
I'm not sure about ConLaw, Simon, but we talked about negative and positive rights in 8th grade leading up to the state-mandated Constitution test. So, yes, I understand the difference. Go back and listen to Obama's quotes on the matter. He's complaining the government isn't given more positive rights to do more to/for people.
"Cook, it's obvious you can't read for comprehension very well, so please tell me what boffo part of Barry's speech did I miss."
Shit, I didn't watch SOTU or the Republican corpse's response! I've got better things to do than to listen to self-serving bullshit from the lying murderers on either side of the aisle.
I'm just asking you how you can know whether the Republican corpse's response was "effective" if you didn't know what he was responding to, given that you declared you didn't watch SOTU.
Now, where is my reading comprehension lacking?
Simon, you're such a law nerd :)
Garage, thanks. :)
Scott, the transcript's here; Obama explains that the courts didn't get into redistribution because the Constitution's a charter of negative libertes (he's right, although a bunch of laypeople got their panties in a twist over it at the time because they don't know what that term means), and talks about how that kind of change has to come through community organizing. That's what he said. So what did you mean when you said that "'I believe … government should do for people only what they cannot do better by themselves and no more' [s]imply doesn't square with his comments about the Constitution being a document of negative rights"?
Robert Cook said...
Yeah...as President, Reagan was a great actor.
Yeah, economic policies getting the misery index out of our lives (Carter gave out "WIP" buttons) and 20 million jobs created.
Just awful.
Wait wait, I think I just understood. You realize that he wasn't talking about government generally rather than the courts specifically, right? Obama was talking about the power of the courts to intervene by enforcing rights, and how that power is limited by the negative character of Constitutional rights. But rights aren't the whole Constitutional ballgame-I just realized that your comment makes perfect sense if you think (or if you think Obama thinks) that rights are the only issue. They aren't. The Constitution affirmatively authorizes government to do a number of things; that's a very different issue to the scope of action available to the courts. I'm not explaining this well, I need more coffee, but do you see what I'm saying?
Simon,
the issue many people had with Obama's "negative liberties" comments was that he was whining that the courts didn't go far enough.
His comments came across as complaining about the pesky constitution being in the way of redistribution.
He's complaining the government isn't given more positive rights to do more to/for people.
There's a Barry YT vid about that, yes, the King wants to do good for his people and that Darned Document gets in his way.
@Simon
I'm a couple cups short of where I'm normally at myself by this point in the morning :0
His comments came across as complaining about the pesky constitution being in the way of redistribution.
This is how I remember it, but I would have to go back and watch the video to see what the question was that prompted his answer. My recollection, though, was as Jay mentions above.
Tarzan was going to watch, but got side-tracked by the Shocking Meat Video.
Andrew Sullivan, author of the Newsweek love letter to Obama, said that judging solely by the two speeches last night, he'd pull the lever for Daniels.
Writ, I'm sure that Andrew pulls his lever for Daniels, but why that's got to be public information is beyond me.
Jay, Scott, I'm sure that that's right (with some exceptions), but just to be clear, the problem doesn't lie in the description of the Constitution as a charter of negative rights. It lies in Obama's utilitarian notion that there is a goal and the proper direction of every instrument of society is to advance toward that goal regardless of constitutional limits.
but just to be clear...
Gotcha. And now with the background you provided, if anyone asks me for clarification on it, I can say, "Simon Says."
Obama is extremely creepy. How can anyone look at the guy let alone listen to him read from the teleprompter? Especially words written by people that *Obama* considers to be partisan political hacks.
*shudder*
Reader- re schooling, the amazing thing is the trend in education is to more and more small, community run indepenent/ charter schools. Yet so many of our leaders think central planning from Wash DC is the way to go.
Because I already addressed why I didn't watch the SOTU in a previous post.
The idea that the government should take over what it thinks it can do "better" than the individual is an open-ended invitation to tyranny because it relies on the sober judgement of the politician to decide what he can and can't do.
Problems with your student loans? The government will take it over because we can do it better. Health care costs rising. We'll take it over because we can do it better. Your kids getting fat because you buy them too many Happy Meals. We'll take charge of that, because we can do it better. Are the wrong people buying tv ads for political candidates? Don't worry we can handle who gets to buy tv ads, because we can do it better. Can't afford to buy a home. We'll handle that because we can do it better ...
People like Obama ALWAYS believe they can do it better, because, well, they're just brilliant. After all, they're our LEADERS. Ask Obama about all of the messes the government has made and he'll tell you: "But of course they made a mess of it; they didn't have me!!!"
I don't trust to government to do it better. In fact, I'd much rather have freedom to make my own mistakes and achieve my own victories. Because in the end I have a stake in doing it better because it's my life.
I don't ask to goverment or Obama or anyone to choose the better for me because in the end they will always choose what's better for themselves.
So Cook, you've got nothing to commend from Barry's address. You've got better things to do. Both sides are ignoramuses.
Do you see how you're part of the lefty trend of simply being against everything? It's easy to do but not constructive. Please, tell us what you're for. Garage and Andy are always inveighing against the world; take an independent stand for once in your life and tell us what you're for. When I finally coaxed something it of Andy it was a wish for a Democrat dictatorship. At least he was being honest. You?
BID-ness
How much his cronies will ante up to get the biz.
Wasn't it WIN (Whip Inflation Now?
It seems to have become some sort of a Right Wing meme: failed Presidency. Where exactly does this failure lie? In hunting down Osama, Win. In getting us out of Iraq? Win. In turning around the economy? Win. We have not been in recession for quite a while. Stimulus worked, sorry folks. Just a fact. Keeping us safe from Terrorists? Win. Closing Gitmo? Well, fail but because the Right successfully scared everyone into thinking that having terror suspects on US soil were lead to disaster!! Prosecuting Wall Street criminals? Once again, thanks to the Republicans in congress, fail. You supported them and now they walk free so do not complain. Healthcare? Obama ran on reforming healthcare and pledged to do something for the millions who do not have it. He won. You might not like it but ... win. No surprise, elections have consequenses. Jobs? The president does not hire. Private sector creates jobs and right now we do not have a Bush Bubble so those jobs are not coming back anytime soon. Sorry. So the only failure so far is in getting the message out that the same fools who ran this country into the ground have repackaged themselves, with Rove's help, as Tea Baggers and now want another shot at finishing us all off. Oh, and after 8 years of a Presidential C student who was as articulate as a drunken cabbie it is a pleasure to listen to some intelligent talk coming from the POTUS. So, please nominate Newt so we can have four more years of success and drive you people even nuttier than you are.
FWIW, I found a good chunk of the section of tonight's SOTU speech focused on education chilling both in terms of public education AND homeschooling.
Same.
In turning around the economy? Win. We have not been in recession for quite a while. Stimulus worked, sorry folks. Just a fact.
Laugh out loud funny.
I think you should tell the 2.3 million + people who have lost their jobs since Obama was sworn in that the economy has "turned around"
Really, you should.
Closing Gitmo? Well, fail but because the Right successfully scared everyone into thinking that having terror suspects on US soil were lead to disaster!!
Hysterical.
Yes, one of Obama's signature issues is failure because of Republican messaging!
Despite the fact that Obama is like so smart & articulate, those dumb Republicans outwit him.
Rube.
What recession - Apple just posted the 2nd biggest EBITA for any company ever! Corporate America has trillions in cash and is very profitable.
Jay said...
"Yeah, economic policies getting the misery index out of our lives (Carter gave out "WIP" buttons) and 20 million jobs created."
No, Gerald Ford gave us the "Whip Inflation Now' buttons. Jimmy Carter gave us the 'misery index'.
And then Ronald Reagan pointed out Carter had doubled the 'misery index' in the three years he had so far had in office!
And Obama has now beaten Jimmy at the index!
"I think you should tell the 2.3 million + people who have lost their jobs since Obama was sworn in that the economy has "turned around""
And look at the turn-around time on previous recessions (and even those in other countries now). The only sense in which the stimulus "worked" was it worked in slowing down the natural recovery by misdirecting and wasting so much money on non-productive uses that it dragged everything else down and thus we are where we (still) are today.
I don't know what to say. I suspect it wouldn't be worth saying, anyway. What is it that people experience out in the non-virtual world and what also do they experience second-hand out in the non-virtual world? It's almost impossible to tell, either way, and therefore impossible to judge what they're thinking.
Lots of words, little information, less context, almost nothing useful.
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