January 31, 2012

Cynthia Nixon gets right with ideologues.

Originally, she said:
I understand that for many people it's not, but for me it's a choice, and you don't get to define my gayness for me... A certain section of our community is very concerned that it not be seen as a choice, because if it's a choice, then we could opt out. I say it doesn't matter if we flew here or we swam here, it matters that we are here and we are one group and let us stop trying to make a litmus test for who is considered gay and who is not.
In a second interview, she was pushed to use the term "bisexual," and she resisted:
"I don't pull out the 'bisexual' word because nobody likes the bisexuals. Everybody likes to dump on the bisexuals... But I do completely feel that when I was in relationships with men, I was in love and in lust with those men. And then I met (her fiance) Christine and I fell in love and lust with her. I am completely the same person and I was not walking around in some kind of fog. I just responded to the people in front of me the way I truly felt."
Now, she's yielded to pressure. She gives an "exclusive statement" to The Advocate:
My recent comments... were about me and my personal story of being gay. I believe we all have different ways we came to the gay community and we can't and shouldn't be pigeon-holed into one cultural narrative which can be uninclusive and disempowering. However, to the extent that anyone wishes to interpret my words in a strictly legal context I would like to clarify...
Strictly legal?!
While I don't often use the word, the technically precise term for my orientation is bisexual. I believe bisexuality is not a choice, it is a fact. What I have 'chosen' is to be in a gay relationship.

... I do, however, believe that most members of our community — as well as the majority of heterosexuals — cannot and do not choose the gender of the persons with whom they seek to have intimate relationships because, unlike me, they are only attracted to one sex.
Interestingly, the comments over at The Advocate are about the way gay people disrespect people who say they are bisexual.

43 comments:

Tibore said...

Political correctness. That's all that needs to be said. Individual thought be damned where there's a "correct" narrative to stick to.

chickenlittle said...

The Advocate are about the way gay people disrespect people who say they are bisexual.

I was unaware of such bi-bigotry.

Carol_Herman said...

Back in the 1960's, homosexuality was considered a disease. It had a label in a psychiatrist's manual. And, lots of people HID the fact of their sexuality from everyone.

This changed. Today, homosexuality is not considered a medical disease.

Today, I am reading Simon Doonan's WONDERFUL BOOK "GAY MEN DO NOT GET FAT." On the back of the book, Malcolm Gladwall is quoted: "If I were really, short, gay and way funnier than I am now, I would try to pass myself off as Simon Doonan."

Joan Rivers wrote: "Simon writes like a leath combo of Robert Benchley and Dorothy Parker. I laughed so hard while reading this book that I split my Spanx."

Also, I didn't have to sneak into a bookstore to buy this book. After hearing about it (and that Simon Doonan is responsible for "doing" Barney's NYC windows, I went to Amazon.

Did I learn anything so far? Yes! Simon calls himself a "poof.' He says he was born with special radar. Because gay men, in particular, have to worry about what can happen to them. Merely being attracted to someone else is no guarantee that you won't end up in the hospital. Or worse: Dead.

Then Doonan says this special talent is why so many gay men have ended up working in espionage.

Is being gay the same experience as not being gay? NO!

But you can laugh. That's an advantageous human quality to have.

t-man said...

The funniest line from Nixon: "nobody likes the bisexuals.

TWM said...

It was just a matter of time before she caved to the intolerance of just another liberal sub-group.

If I were gay I would want to go with choice over genetics, because once they start being able to easily isolate specific genes and change/remove them to mold the "perfect" child, the choice gays will have to worry about is the choice a woman (parents) will make when she is told her child will be gay.

I do wonder how the left will react to a woman's right to choose in that decision.

rhhardin said...

we can't and shouldn't be pigeon-holed

This suggests itself as slang of some kind.

Brennan said...

It sure sounds like an awful lot of work homogenizing homosexuals...er...or...the non-heterosexuals.

But the real story here is that Cynthia is in the Dan Savage polyamoruspalooza tent.

Moose said...

You have to adhere to church doctrine, or you get excommunicated. The church of "gay" has only one line - homosexuality is *not* a choice.

Coketown said...

After coming out, I spent a few months trying to "get right" with the gay community, and it was the worst time of my life. It's not so much a community as a fascist cult, and this Cynthia Nixon story illustrates that. I understand why young people gravitate toward it: it's the first place they're accepted for what they are. But the corrolary is that they're only accepted for what they are. Break the mold and you're exiled, sister.

I found my bocce ball and fiction writing groups far more welcoming than that sad herd of insecure, petty, jealous narcissists.

Alex said...

What I want to know is why Ms. Nixon ever felt compelled to give an interview about her personal life in the first place. Who's fucking business is it?

Alex said...

Coketown - what do you think of the portrayal of gay characters in TV shows since "Six Feet Under" began?

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

It's long been politically incorrect to be bisexual. There was a time when the Kinsey Scale was all the rage, but now, not. If you think you're anything between zero and six, you're just a six in denial. Because we know the inside of your head ever so much better than you do.

The mystery to me is why "LGBT" still has a "B" in it, when actual "B"s are constantly told by other members of the alleged coalition that they're just deluding themselves.

[Disclaimer: I'm a lifelong Kinsey zero; no dog in this fight, just observing.]

wv: uniase. I'd guess that that's an enzyme added to the water in WI public buildings.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

TWM,

If the "choice" folks can stomach sex-selective abortion (as most of them seem to), they can stomach anything.

t-man said...

"The Kinsey Zeros" is a great name for a band.

Unknown said...

I would say gay versus not gay has a genetic, environmental, and spiritual component like everything else in the universe. What is choice? Is a person compelled by their genes or by emotional trauma? What life does is compensate with weakness in one area by strength in another area.

To some extent everything about gay is a choice and at another view choice is clouded out and not relevant due to the complexity of the cause. so let bygones be bygones.

Coketown said...

Coketown - what do you think of the portrayal of gay characters in TV shows since "Six Feet Under" began?

I don't watch much TV so couldn't say. I saw Six Feet Under, though, and thought it was too hyper-conscious about normalizing gay characters. Oh, look. That gay guy is black, churchgoing, and a cop. So normal! But then they had decidedly un-normal instances where I was left wondering whether it was satire or some facet of gay culture that I didn't know existed, like getting random blowjobs from the plumber, seeing your wife's straight brother having sex with a guy IN A CUSTOMER'S BASEMENT WHILE ON THE JOB, coercing a guy to drop a lawsuit against your deranged partner by sleeping with him, or having sex with the guy who cut your hair IN THE BATHROOM OF THE PLACE WHERE YOU GOT YOUR HAIRCUT. Does this shit actually happen? Or are the writers making fun of us because we assume it happens but doesn't?

Yahoo reported on an episode of Glee that betrayed the most egregious example of writer intrusion I've ever seen, and you could just tell one (or most) of the writers were expressing their high school fantasies in the script. When the faggy little douche (the one everyone thinks is brave; don't follow the show so can't name him) confronts the big, mean jock-bully for picking on him, then jock-bully breaks down and kisses him. Oh, right. His animosity is motivated by jock-bully's latent and repressed homosexuality. Got it. What the fuck? Who wrote this shit?

Then my mom was watching Two and a Half Men over Christmas and they had an episode with two gay characters who stood around at a dinner party with their hands on each others' waists the entire time. Gay people don't do that. We're just as ambulatory as straight people.

I thought Gregg's character in The Wire was realistic.

Tom Brady is too over-the-top.

edutcher said...

Well, here's a surprise. The Gay Raiders once again acting like storm troopers, making sure everybody falls into line.

As I say, this is what's going to torpedo the homosexual rights agenda the more it becomes more publicly known. Before it was mostly local, now it's going national.

Alex said...

Coketown - interesting. I know Alan Ball is a hyper-homosexual and he just can't help himself with these characters. It's quite sad actually.

ricpic said...

Since nobody likes the bisexuals and everybody dumps on the bisexuals does this mean the time is ripe for the bisexuals to found THE BISEXUAL LIBERATION ARMY and FIGHT THE POWER?!?!

Amartel said...

Back in line, sheep! These lefty ideologues aren't really afraid of overbearing religious (Christian) dogma like they claim; they're jealous of it! It threatens their franchise.

Also: Coketown represents!

Alex said...

What's sad is Ms. Nixon was pretending to have heterosexual sex on "Sex In the City" all the while batting for the other side. Shame on you Cynthia.

Lyssa said...

Why the problem with Bisexuals? I don't get it.

Related: I've known a dozen or more gay males in my life, but only one (female) who identified as bi (with the exception of a truely gay guy who identified as bi for a little bit), and she was only about 14-15 and, I suspect, more about the "look at me" factor. I've known almost no lesbians, other than one relative who I only have passing contact with. Even here at Althouse, we have at least several gay guys at any one time, but I think I've only ever noticed one lesbian (Beth's a lesbian, right? NTTAWWT) and no bis (bi's?).

What's up with that?

Coketown said...

Coketown - interesting. I know Alan Ball is a hyper-homosexual and he just can't help himself with these characters.

It is sad. He's a talented person but injecting gay people into everything is clumsy. In cases like American Beauty, it's integral to the theme. In Six Feet Under it was laziness: David was a grating, irritating character with no redeeming values so Ball fell back on making him gay as a way to make him pitiable.

I write fiction as a hobby and never have gay characters. Gayness just isn't interesting once you get down to brass tacks. I dealt with the struggles of gayness once in a story, but used an android to illustrate it. I thought it was a success.

traditionalguy said...

Nixon's hair is all gone. Is she in chemotherapy?

ricpic said...

tradguy - She's bald for the role she plays of a woman battling cancer in Wit, a broadway show.

She does a wooden job by the way.

DADvocate said...

I'm omnisexual. Any thing, any tme, any where.

Jose_K said...

: "nobody likes the bisexuals.
so as someone said in the last thread ,she really thinks nobody like Girls going wild

Methadras said...

Tolerance? We don't need no stinking tolerance.

Amartel said...

The problem with bi-sexuals is that they're not gay enough for the ideologues. There shall be no deviation from the path of righteousness, doncha know.

Michael said...

You cannot improve on the comedy of political correctness when heaped on top of fence jumping in search of sexual gratification. Splendid.

In truth I am not interested in other people's sexual preferences. I am offended when I am forced to consider what other people do in bed together. I do not care, Gene Robinson, Cynthis Nixon, gay people everywhere. Please shut up.

Blue@9 said...

I don't know if it's political correctness. The term is definitely disfavored though. I regularly hang out with a group of "queer" girls--they don't go by "lesbian" because they still date guys, but "bisexual" is out too, because (1) it sounds pretty clinical, and (2) it suggests an even bifurcation of sexuality. These girls are probably 80-90% on the gay side, so bisexual doesn't sound accurate to their ears.

edutcher said...

DADvocate said...

I'm omnisexual. Any thing, any tme, any where.

I thought that was stereosexual.

Oh, right...

Technology's different now.

Trapper Townshend said...

"After coming out, I spent a few months trying to "get right" with the gay community, and it was the worst time of my life. It's not so much a community as a fascist cult..."

The gay groups at every college campus in the country that have one are always full of new freshmen faces at their first meetings in early September, and then stripped down to a handful of the totalitarian die-hards by the next month. This repeats itself annually.

Nathan Alexander said...

@coketown,
re: homosexual characters

You said, Gayness just isn't interesting once you get down to brass tacks.

I think that is because having a "homosexual" character really means that you take one minor aspect of the character and make it the only important thing about that character.

In the same way, I cringe when people identify as gay, and the promotion of LGBT, because:
why reduce yourself to being the sum only of your sexual urges?

As humans, shouldn't our identity be bound up in so many more rich and varied aspects than just our sexual preference?!?

Take you, for example: you mentioned being gay because it was relevant to the topic, but you are clearly far more than one tiny, little label.

I would have much less problem with the goals of the homosexual culture/society movement if it didn't come across as such a semi-stealthy bait-and-switch...

"All we want is to not be discriminated against. Now that we are not discriminated against, all we want are legal civil unions. Now that we have legal civil unions, all we want is legal marriage. Now that we have legal marriage..."

Aside:
I'm also convinced that a good portion of the "there is no possible way homosexuality is ever a choice" argument is that it frees homosexuals to make aggressive seduction/pressure attempts without guilt: if you succeed, that person was always gay and you just liberated them, right?

Active in both music and theater, I've known more than my fair share of gays...only a small handful were comfortable enough with themselves for me to be friends with w/o them taking it as a green light to hit on me. Those few were worth their weight in gold.

Carol_Herman said...

Not only is homosexuality genetic, according to the research done by Marlene Zak, it travels on a woman's mitochondria.

Most traits erase after 7 generations. But not this one! It's been there for thousands of years. Because the mitochondria is different.

It's a waste of time to worry about the future. We are present. And, then we disappear.

And, within societies where women can make choices; they've begun to opt out of getting pregnant in the first place. That's why you don't see "cheaper by the dozen" sized families, anymore.

All you really have to know, now, if you find yourself attracted to same sex partners ... is that you can go home, and rummage around your mom's closet ... to see whom among her relatives, also shows up with this trait.

Why would anyone want to "cure" whom they're attracted to?

As Simon Doonan explains, we've had a cultural shift so that young kids aren't left feeling all alone.

Doesn't mean a young gay kid wants the trauma of hitting on someone who isn't.

So, again, Simon Doonan points out that because he, himself, has uncanny radar ... where straight guys don't ... Just means he's got an adaptable survival skill. (Where gay sex with a stranger can lead to a terrible beating. And, even death.) That's what hasn't changed.

Crunchy Frog said...

Reminds me of when Ellen the character came out - what was a funny, interesting show instantly turned unwatchable.

Amartel said...

Er, Carol? Straight guys have radar. Just not for gay guys.

David said...

"These girls are probably 80-90% on the gay side, so bisexual doesn't sound accurate to their ears."

Maybe they are going in the direction where they find it easiest to get sex. If either one works for you, the path of least resistance is often your own sex.

Nathan Alexander said...

I wish I had a nickel for every gay who said, "Why would I choose to be gay? It's horrible, it's the worst thing in the world."

I'd be rich.

And then I would want a nickel for every gay person that tried to hit on someone who has firmly said they were straight.

I bet I'd have two piles of nickels of remarkably similar amounts.

Meaning: cognitive dissonance leads one to talk the talk even when they don't walk the walk.

Eric said...

I think that is because having a "homosexual" character really means that you take one minor aspect of the character and make it the only important thing about that character.

Yeah, I think that's right. Putting a gay character in a murder mystery isn't the same thing as writing a gay murder mystery, and the writer needs to decide what kind of story he wants to tell.

EMD said...

The funniest line from Nixon: "nobody likes the bisexuals.

Second funniest: "Mrs. Nixon is finished!"



WV: alimb. Nixon, Cynthia, out on.

R. Chatt said...

I think Ms. Nixon did a very good job of clarifying her position -- that she has the capacity for attraction to either men or women but she has now chosen a woman as her partner. In that sense she is a bisexual by nature and a lesbian as a choice.

Part of the reason, probably the main reason, for the antipathy towards bisexuals in the LGBT community is that as a political movement gay activism has been driven by those at the extremes -- the totally gay identified males and totally lesbian identified females. They have had to face the greatest amount of discrimination in life and the most to lose in terms of jobs, careers, housing, etc., because of their identities. Banding together made sense politically as well as psychologically for emotional support.

Bisexuals, on the other hand, have mostly lived notoriously under the radar -- they are frequently married heterosexuals who cheat on their spouses, and thus have the advantages of both lifestyles. Check out bisexual support online chat rooms and you'll see what I mean. The guys leave the chat room when their wives get home from work.

Furthermore, you will find many bisexuals who are in fact "gay" but are unable or unwilling to make the commitment to that homosexual identity because of their fear of rejection socially. Perhaps that is fear is lessening, but I don't really think so for ordinary people.

So frankly, those who are bisexual by nature, such as Nixon, have faced a bad rap from the heterosexual community, obviously. But also bisexuals have faced resentment and rejection from gays and lesbians who have taken on the fight against the discrimination and violence directed toward the gay community.

Thanks to Nixon it looks like bisexuals might enjoy greater tolerance and acceptance within the LGBT
community. I wouldn't count on any shift in the world of conservatives though.

Amartel said...

R. Chatt puts everyone back in their boxes.
Gays and lesbians=good: victims.
Bisexuals=bad: opportunistic liars but possibly sometimes good as long as they're really gay or lesbian and therefore victims.
Conservatives=bad: full stop.

I wouldn't count on any shift in the closed mind of R. Chatt.