December 20, 2011

Madison school board votes down charter school designed to lift up poor minority kids.

It was a terrible clash between Madison interests: unionists against those who wanted to find innovative ways to serve the interests of the most downtrodden members of society.

Urban League of Greater Madison President Kaleem Caire immediately announced that he would sue the board for racial discrimination: "We are going to challenge this school district like they’ve never been challenged before, I swear to God."

From the comments at the link:
This was never about Unions. Mr. Caire's tea party pals play the union card because they understand how divisive and powerful it can be.

This was an attempt by the Urban League to create a private school with public money. Their attempt has failed. That Mr. Caire is now apparently going to sue (and further drain resources that could be used to close the achievement gap), reinforces the assertion that the real objective is to put public money into private pockets.

Mr. Caire is behaving like a professional victim.
When liberals attack liberals! What to look for: 1. They'll call each other conservatives. 2. Race card. 3. Lawsuit!

ADDED: If you leverage your proposal on race — thinking that's a great way to get Madison liberals to give you what you want — when they vote it down, do you get to cry race discrimination? Seems to me, that's counting race twice. Or... to put it another way... it's arguing that affirmative action is not merely permitted, but required.

I think Caire should show his good faith by withdrawing the race card and declining to sue. He lost a political fight. The place to fight a political fight is in the political arena. You're competing for taxpayer money, so prove your commitment to not wasting taxpayer money by not draining it through litigation. Caire should focus on the next election. Try to put people who support the charter school on the school board.

116 comments:

MadisonMan said...

I was hoping it would pass. Let the lawsuits commence -- that's the Madison way (See: Edgewater)

The Op-Ed piece by Matthews, president of MTI, was illuminating. Of course the Union was against it. The Op-Ed didn't mention children or students once.

Sorun said...

"For the past 20 years, our schools have been ablaze with failure and we have been unable to extinguish the fire."

Try directing the fire hose at the crappy parents. Some of them were probably there wearing your retarded t-shirts.

DADvocate said...

Hahahaaha!! The huge danger in charter schools is that the kids get a good education, get good jobs, acheive freedom from government handouts, become conservatives/libertarians.

Henry said...

From the article: Opponents, most of them Madison teachers, focused on growing poverty and limited funding for public schools as the driving factors behind the achievement gap.

Via Google: Madison invests more in its public schools than other Wisconsin communities, spending over $13,493 per student compared to the state average of $11,894 per student.

https://www.madison.k12.wi.us/mmsdfact.htm

Original Mike said...

I've been pretty vocal in my support for the changes Gov. Walker has instituted for state workers, even though they cost me personally. I support them because they are better for the state as a whole.

Here we have an appalling vision of greed and selfishness on display by the same people who claim the mantle of civic virtue. It is disgusting.

JAL said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kit said...

There had to been a way to get this to work, but both sides seemed unwilling to compromise or come up with alternatives.

A pox on both their houses.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

When liberals attack liberals! What to look for: 1. They'll call each other conservatives. 2. Race card. 3. Lawsuit!

They just have a mind like a bingo tumbler full of stock phrases and words on little balls.

Spin the tumbler and the words come out in random order that seem to have some deeper meaning....but in the end it is just the bingo tumbler spinning and spinning.

Just like the feminist diatribe in the posts of yesterday. Random words that sound smart, but underneath.....nothing.

bagoh20 said...

There is no such thing as "public money". There is no paycheck or tax return with the name Mr. Public on it.

edutcher said...

A twofer. The Lefties placate the unions and keep a bunch of poor kids on the welfare plantation.

coolkevs said...

To John Matthews and the people on the School Board who voted against this, I say "SHAME!!!!!!!!!" Where's my recall petition for the school board members - if MTI can play this game, so can we!

bagoh20 said...

" the real objective is to put public money into private pockets. "

We need to help the teachers - apparently they can't even afford pockets.

Scott M said...

That Mr. Caire is now apparently going to sue (and further drain resources that could be used to close the achievement gap), reinforces the assertion that the real objective is to put public money into private pockets.

This particular statement caught my eye. The commenter seems to believe that money was already being well-spent on these kids. Is there empirical proof to suggest that more money would net better results?

Chip S. said...

...the real objective is to put public money into private pockets.

Whose pockets does the money spent on public schools go into? In what way are those pockets not private?

Oh, right...they're public servants, who toil ceaselessly for the greater good. Unionized and well-compensated servants, but servants nonetheless.

Just don't try to cut their benefits, or you'll quickly discover the limits of their servility.

Peter Hoh said...

Laws regulating charter schools vary from state to state. Is it absolutely necessary for a charter school to get approval from a local school board?

Under Minnesota law, those wishing to start a charter school do not need to get the blessing of the local school board.

MadisonMan said...

Parent quote from the Isthmus Article on the vote:

You meet every need of the unions, but keep minority student achievement a low priority

That'll leave a mark.

roesch/voltaire said...

As I stated in previous posts, I have mixed feelings about this for several reasons. For one the charter school group makes grandiose claims based on a "dream", and not actually accomplishments and I would have liked to see them run a smaller pilot program successfully and then asked for larger funds.The Malcolm Shabazz alternative school is a good example of this model. Secondly they could have explored more ways to involve parents and students in after-school programs designed to help minority students close the gap. The PEOPLE project at UW is one small example that could be expanded.

MadisonMan said...

The Malcolm Shabazz alternative school is a good example of this model.

I had a student once who was a graduate of Shabazz, and she was dumb as a post. That experience made me suspect that there are a fair few number of students there who are just being processed through to graduation.

I do know other students at MS that seem to thrive there, but my experience with the one stinker makes me wonder exactly what they are learning.

Tim said...

For Liberals, Labor Unions > Poor Blacks.

More campaign contributions, and more likely to vote.

Original Mike said...

"That'll leave a mark."

No it won't. You assume a level of concern for the welfare of the kids that is not in evidence.

Tim said...

edutcher said...

"A twofer. The Lefties placate the unions and keep a bunch of poor kids on the welfare plantation."

+1.

roesch/voltaire said...

Madison, yes Shabazz students can be a mixed bag and I do not see many in the COE, but given where many of these students start from, I think they have a better rate of success with that population then the traditional high schools.

AprilApple said...

Somehow only the holy "State" can provide us with a good education. Do not question the "state".

SGT Ted said...

If they are not learning during school, how is an after school program going to be more effective? How come that special instruction isn't being used in the first place during normal school hours in order to bring them up to speed? Or is that expecting too much from these alleged experienced professionals?

traditionalguy said...

Sue them. Lawyers need jobs, tenure and outrageous Benefit plans too.

It's for the children...the lawyers' children that is.

Renee said...

I'm opposed to some of these charter schools. If they are 'for-profit' and run by non-local cooperations, like SABIS.

SABIS is trying to create a charter school here in Lowell, Massachusetts. Essentially, they have the ability to get the students who would do well anyways in our public schools. Our children actually do well in public, if they have two parents in the home, or a single parent is stable in employment and residence.

It's the truly at-risk children, who do not have limited parental support in the home to begin with that need the most help. What about a charter school that specializes in children who have parents on drugs or have been abused????

I can be critical of unions, but when it comes to charter schools I'm on the unions side. The whole idea of public schools is not parental choice, but the community's obligation to all children. Charter schools can not be picky or choosy, schools should be neighborhood based and apart of the whole community. The ability choose who can and can't be students skews the numbers to make them look successful, but they're not.

Christopher in MA said...

"This was an attempt by the Urban League to create a private school with public money."

Listen to the pig squeal because somebody might take a drop of swill out of the union trough.

Hey, "comment at the link," MY money is stolen from me every week at gunpoint in order to fund a crappy, politicized, PC-addled Massachusetts government school system in which I have no children, nor wish to support in any way. But I am forced to by your "divisve and powerful" union thugs. So as far as I'm concerned, turnabout is fair play. I hope Caire sues that worthless school district into penury.

James said...

Try directing the fire hose at the crappy parents. Some of them were probably there wearing your retarded t-shirts.

"Crappy parents" don't show up at school board meetings.

Christopher in MA said...

"What about a charter school that specializes in children who have parents on drugs or who have been abused?"

Excellent idea, Renee, and I would gladly contribute to such an endeavor. But try running that past the corrupt Massachusetts NEA, or the parasites sitting on the Lowell city council who begrudge you and me every cent of our own paychecks.

TosaGuy said...

Renee said.

"The whole idea of public schools is not parental choice, but the community's obligation to all children."

That sounds wonderful until the parents feel that the public school system is not serving their children and with a 50 percent grad rate for minorities, Madison schools in the eyes of many are not.

Renee said...

Conservatives for years have argued that federal government needs to get out of education, that it needs to be locally controlled. Yet, when it comes to charter schools, they have no problem handing over local and state tax dollars to large educational corporations to manage the students' test scores.

Charters argue that one size doesn't fit all, but then why do these charters pop up like fast food franchises serving the same thing to every school district?

Scott M said...

"This was an attempt by the Urban League to create a private school with public money."

Laughable if you consider that collective bargaining gives public money to private interests and does so in an extremely smelly way, ie, the public employee unions negotiating against the taxpayers at large.

Marshal said...

"Tim said...
For Liberals, Labor Unions > Poor Blacks."

Leftist politics is always about the money. That's why their accusations of greed are so ridiculously hysterical.

Consider the quoted idiot: Wisconsin, as with roughly 45 other states, vastly overspends on education considering the return. Yet according to those raping the system the only solution can be to spend even more. On the other hand any - and I mean ANY - accountability or demand for improvement is treated as a personal attack on the workers. The output of the system means exactly nothing to these people. Sure the piety lament is always available at need, but improving the system? Numer 6,324 on the priority list.

The public schools don't work and we all know it. The left doesn't care because they consider it workfare, but even they know the system sucks. But they need the unions, over half the delegates at their last convention were teacher union members.

And why do we have this system? Because the courts and parental political pressure have elminated teachers ability to make decisions and put feckless administrators in charge. Teachers naturally objected to rules preventing them from accomplishing their jobs. So in turn administrators simply eliminated educating the children from their goals.

The system works in perfect balance now. Teachers do not perform but receive the rewards anyway. Democrats cannot educate but receive votes and union financial support anyway. Children aren't educated but get into college anyway. The underperformers then go to work as teachers or elsewhere in government and the cycle begins again.

As long as the money keeps flowing everything works perfectly.

Renee said...

Chris,

We actually do have specialized schools in Massachusetts for many of them. Children sent outside of the district to a school much like a 'boy's home' that is state run.

Renee said...

"The public schools don't work and we all know it."


Public schools work perfectly fine in affluent suburbs, where there is no low-income housing, but yet they still have unions.

Tim said...

There is, of course, no correlation whatsoever between increasing power of teacher unions over state legislatures and local school boards, and concomitant, higher-than-ever public expenditures on public schools, and the growing failure of public schools to adequately teach.

At this rate, we will spend all public funds on education and no one will know how to read, let alone think.

Tim said...

"Public schools work perfectly fine in affluent suburbs, where there is no low-income housing, but yet they still have unions."

These are, by dint of the exceptional admission price of high-priced housing, effectively private schools.

And everyone knows it.

Original Mike said...

"...they have the ability to get the students who would do well anyways in our public schools."

You hear this convienient argument all the time, but I doubt it is true (though I'm sure it can vary from place to place). You see lotterys on the news where concerned parents are trying to get their kids out of failing schools. How does the Charter school rig a lottery? And it's not the case with Madison Prep.

chuck said...

focused on growing poverty and limited funding for public schools

And that's why public education sucks. The teachers haven't a clue.

@Sorun
at the crappy parents

Yeah, I've heard teachers make that argument before. Maybe if the parents' education had been better there wouldn't be that problem. But in any case, I don't buy the argument. Lousy texts, crappy curricula, faddish teaching methodology, ignorant teachers, and worthless teachers colleges probably have more to do with it.

Henry said...

Renee wrote: Charters argue that one size doesn't fit all, but then why do these charters pop up like fast food franchises serving the same thing to every school district?

Is that the case where you live? Not in Rhode Island.

Peter Hoh pointed to something important far upstream -- the way charter schools are created and run depends on state law. All manner and perverse outcomes are generated by idiotic frameworks and ongoing legislative battles.

Here in Rhode Island a charter school must serve a specific purpose (thus the charter). That's a general concept behind the whole movement. Unless Massachusetts is behind Rhode Island on this, your blanket statement rings false.

One charter school here in Rhode Island unites english-speaking and non-native-english-speaking students in a dual-language track curriculum (English/Spanish or English/Portuguese).

Another highly successful charter school is focused on marine science (appropriate for Rhode Island).

However, the politics of starting a charter school are formidable. You can have a fully developed proposal, supporting parents, specialist teachers, and get nowhere unless someone cuts a political deal. It's a disgrace.

Jay said...

that the real objective is to put public money into private pockets.


You mean kind of like WEAC?

Renee said...

I agree Henry, if charters are run by local people as non-profits and not by outside corporations, my opinion changes.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Renee, why would your opinion change based on anything except how effective (and cost-effective) the schools are? Priorities!

Peter Ryan said...

Ann said: "I think Caire should show his good faith by withdrawing the race card and declining to sue. He lost a political fight. The place to fight a political fight is in the political arena. You're competing for taxpayer money, so prove your commitment to not wasting taxpayer money by not draining it through litigation. Caire should focus on to the next election. Try to put people who support the charter school on the school board."

While I agree with you, Ann, it is typical for liberals to run to the courts when they can't win the political fight. It is so ingrained in the liberal arsenal that they often prepare their legal arguments while the political fight is still going on. Then, they shop for a liberal judge and file suit.

The real question is, when the liberal judge is facing a liberal challenge to a liberal cause, which side do they re-interpret the law to support?

Ann Althouse said...

@Peter Ryan Amusing though such exercises are, they are too expensive, and, frankly, a deliberate attempt to set up an exercise of that is an abuse of the courts.

RonF said...

... could support opening it in 2013, after the district’s contract with its teachers union expires. The union contract requires Madison public school students to be educated by unionized teachers.

So - no charter schools in Madison? Madison's City Council deliberately gave the teacher's union a legal monopoly on publicly-funded schools? They don't even have that in Chicago (which is one reason why the Chicago Teachers Union opposes charter schools here)_.

Marshal said...

"Renee said...
"The public schools don't work and we all know it."


Public schools work perfectly fine in affluent suburbs, where there is no low-income housing, but yet they still have unions."

The point isn't whether unions created the problem, it's whether they prevent a solution. And they do. And your position that suburban schools work "prefectly fine" is a vast overstatement.

Ann Althouse said...

"The public schools don't work and we all know it."

This is a (corrupt) reason for supporters of public schools to oppose any experiments that would produce evidence that other approaches are more effective.

Original Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael said...

As in Washington, DC the liberals are very illiberal when it comes to threatening the public school monoply. Poor blacks are a political tool to the " progressives" who wll never let them off the plantation. Ever.

Original Mike said...

"why would your opinion change based on anything except how effective (and cost-effective) the schools are?"

This "fairness" thing really seems to be ingrained. Even if it works, if a "business" makes money it's dirty.

Why that's different than the money the teachers make for doing their job escapes me.

Renee said...

Again let's go back why do we educate children with public funds at all and why is it ideal to it organize it at a local level?

I also have a developmentally delayed child, and well he will never be above average or succeed in these types of charter schools. Why should public schools get a bad reputation, because they have the absolute obligation to educate him when cookie cutter charters don't?

Charters for specific interests, such as the example in Rhode Island isn't about taking a dump on public schools, but simply a specialization, much like a vocational public school.

Peter Hoh said...

There are states where pretty much anyone can open a charter school, and some are run with a structure that seems similar to multi-level marketing operations.

I think Renee might have been talking about organizations such as Edison Schools, which run charter schools and district schools in several states.

Original Mike said...

"Caire should focus on to the next election. Try to put people who support the charter school on the school board."

Nice sentiment, but winning a school board seat against the entrenched interests in this town may be nigh impossible.

X said...

crappy parents

I too have heard this, from a tatted up, weed smoking, lives with her boyfriend teacher. I'm guessing the crappy parents she refers to are substance abusing, lacking personal discipline, and typically not a stable two parent family.

Methadras said...

Democrat leftist unionistas: Why, we can't allow the unwashed masses a chance to degraft themselves from our endentured system of low expectations and less per child payments. Why that would mean that it would weaken our already weakened union.

Advocates for charter system: But you need to give children a chance to rise up to their potential while your system holds them back and holds them down. You've created a level of disparity that they could never overcome when you pander to the lowest common denominator in the way your system callously cares only for the plight of the union, not the education of children.

Democrat leftist unionistas: Fuck the children, we only care about the union and keeping this multi-decade gravy train rolling.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... Via Google: Madison invests more in its public schools than other Wisconsin communities, spending over $13,493 per student compared to the state average of $11,894 per student..."

For liberals there never is enough money. I recall Althouse saying what her property taxes were and after I finished throwing up, I concluded that the state could confiscate your entire paycheck and it still wouldn't be enough.

Henry said...

I also have a developmentally delayed child, and well he will never be above average or succeed in these types of charter schools.

Renee, what do you mean by "these types" of charter schools. What "types" are those?

By definition a charter school has a charter -- a specific mission. There's no reason a charter school couldn't be targeted to children with developmental delays. And, in fact, many have.

A school has a charter to fulfill. It gets a certain amount of money per pupil. It's outcomes, per test scores, are public knowledge. If it fails or is mismanaged it's charter can be revoked.

If the school does the job, does it matter if it is for-profit or not?

I send my kids to for-profit pediatrician. Do you think I'm worried? As chance would have it, my doctor is part of a not-for-profit group. Does that make him better? We're talking life and death here.

mccullough said...

Kaleem Caire, this is how conservatives are born. See Cleaver, Eldridge.

Sorun said...

The reason that you can't blame teachers and then ignore parents is that ultimately parents choose teachers. Not directly, but parents are key to overseeing school administration. If the parents ignore this responsibility, then you get lousy schools.

People in WI used to go to one-room schoolhouses with a minimum of school supplies. In a literacy contest, I'd pick a rural class from 1900 over east Madison today. It's boils down to the parents.

Renee said...

http://www.miamiherald.com/charterschools/index.html

"South Florida charter schools admit few special needs children"

"During a tour of Bridgepoint, Vigil was told the school had no specialist for children with disabilities, nor could it provide the special education services to which David is legally entitled.

Vigil then called Somerset Academy, another charter school in Southwest Miami-Dade. But an employee there told her that the school didn’t have the resources her son would need, she said.

“I would cry because it was constant rejection,” Vigil said. “Nobody wanted to take my son.”"

Sorun said...

...a fee the school would pay the Urban League of Greater Madison totaling $900,000 over five years.

Ok, now I get the picture.

Michael said...

Sorun: "People in WI used to go to one-room schoolhouses with a minimum of school supplies. In a literacy contest, I'd pick a rural class from 1900 over east Madison today. It's boils down to the parents."

A couple of things happened in those one room school houses that do not happen today. One, the children were forced to memorize considerable amounts of information from history to math to literature. Memorization is not considered a valid teaching method according to contemporary "Education" theory. Second, the teachers in those one room school houses enforced a discipline with a technique that today is illegal.

Most of those who comment on this blog would be challenged by the tests those kids were required to pass.

Original Mike said...

"...a fee the school would pay the Urban League of Greater Madison totaling $900,000 over five years."

Hell, $180k/yr probably isn't enough to buy one Administrator in the Madison Public School system. Without seeing their budget, I don't find this remarkable in the least.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... South Florida charter schools admit few special needs children".."

Do special needs kids need special needs schools?

garage mahal said...

Not one compelling argument in 65 comments why Madison Prep should have been approved. I doubt most even made it past the first paragraph. YOOOOYUNS BADDDD

Sorun said...

That $180K/yr might mean a lot to the Urban League of Madison. At least enough for them to cry racism if they don't get it.

Sorun said...

One more thing about one-room schoolhouses. At least for the earliest ones, the parents in the community combined efforts to both build it and hire the teacher.

Yes, it used to be solely the parents' responsibility to educate children. Look how far we've come. Fucking amazing, isn't it.

Original Mike said...

"Not one compelling argument in 65 comments why Madison Prep should have been approved."

Maybe because most here don't need the district’s 48 percent graduation rate among black students explained to them.

Original Mike said...

Nor do they need it explained to them that it is the Union who is standing in the way. Nor do they need the Union's motive explained to them.

TosaGuy said...

Renee,

I am not saying this to be mean ..... but you are not the only parent who wants the best for their kids. Every good parent wants the best for their kids and some parents want charter schools because they think they will be best for their kids. To other parents, such a school is a threat to their kids. Yet other parents see vast resources in teachers and time dedicated to a few at the expense of the run-of-the-mill kid.

Such conflicts are what happens when you have a one-size-fits-none type of public school system.

Pogo said...

Public employee unions are indeed bad, Garage.
FDR thought so, too.

Whatever they support, the best thing is usually unthinking opposition.

In fact, they have done a lot of legwork and research into these issues, and one can be quite confident that once public unions have weighed in on a subject it has been thoroughly vetted and support is thrown to that which benefits themselves the most.

As a result, one need do no evluation of the issue at all, save for observing what the PEUs support, and advocating the opposite, and you will almost always have chosen the path that best preserves liberty.

For this work, I am grateful. They appear to have no other worthy purpose.

Original Mike said...

"That $180K/yr might mean a lot to the Urban League of Madison."

Until I'm shown otherwise, I assume there are personnel costs involved.

Stephen said...

When liberals attack liberals! What to look for: 1. They'll call each other conservatives. 2. Race card. 3. Lawsuit!

This is brilliant and funny.

Question: what are the parallel moves for conservatives. Obviously call each other liberal is the first. What are the second and the third? And is there a conservative race card, too? Immigration, perhaps? Let your outstanding imagination loose on this, it could be interesting.

TosaGuy said...

Garage said:
"I doubt most even made it past the first paragraph. YOOOOYUNS BADDDD"


From the 12th paragraph of the article.......

"The union contract requires Madison public school students to be educated by unionized teachers."

buwaya said...

California is one of the better experimental sites for charter schools.

The reason is that the state testing system rates schools vs "similar" schools - schools where the demographic and circumstantial characteristics indicate similar levels of difficulty in achieving good test results. These rating are achieved with a rather complex regression model.

Anyway, for a few years I did an annual analysis of charter vs regular school performance (and other such quations), as a bit of a busmans holiday. The usual result was that charter schools that catered to the higher-end "similar" school populations - white/asian, educated parents, etc. - did worse than the regular schools. Charter schools that catered to the lower-end of the population did better than regular public schools. There is a lot of variance of course.

The really big difference though is that taking school district budgets into account, charter schools are MUCH cheaper per student. Part of this is the general unavailability of special-ed funding, which is normally allocated directly by districts, but not all of the difference is explained by that.

The person in Florida looking for a charter to take a special needs child is barking up the wrong tree. The money for that is in the regular schools.

As for why public schools are so expensive - special ed kids inclusion into normal school populations is extremely expensive and inefficient. Few places in the world try to do this. The results are also not commensurate with the effort.

LilEvie said...

I love the smell of irony in the morning.

I say let the lawsuits begin; anything that pushes a corrupt system closer to the brink is a plus.

Renee & RV:
How about the charter schools in New Orleans, which are now almost all the schools? Just grandiose claims or actual accomplishments?

buwaya said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Nor do they need it explained to them that it is the Union who is standing in the way. Nor do they need the Union's motive explained to them.

Then what about this:

There's some disagreement about whether, under under the state's new collective bargaining law, such an agreement would nullify the whole contract

The union contract, which expires in 2013, doesn't allow Madison to hire nonunion teachers. Exceptions have been made previously through negotiated agreements between the union and the district.

Now, that appears impossible due to the changes in collective bargaining rules in Act 10. I also find it strange the same people that are so for the children and Madison Prep don't blink an eye when 29,000 kids are going to be thrown of BadgerCare.

Henry said...

@Renee -- You said you live in Lowell. Forget Florida. What are the options in Lowell?

That article you linked to? You should read the whole thing:

Quote: “Charter schools do not have the infrastructure and economies of scale to provide special programs to meet the needs of those children,” said Michael Kooi, director of school choice programs at the Florida Department of Education.

Quote: Yet in Miami-Dade, only two out of 109 charter schools serve children with more profound disabilities like autism and cerebral palsy. One is a specialized school for children with developmental delays, the other for children with autism. (my emphasis)

What we see in this article is a confusion between models and an abuse of statistics. The public school model has large enrollment, boilerplate academic model, and a broad array of special programs. The charter school model has low enrollment, a tailored academic program and a narrower array of special programs. Yet the charter school model allows for schools that have a specific focus on special programs (as I've emphasized). In the charter school model the charter is the specialty.

(Also note that the narrative that leads the article is about a parent who is sad and angry that her child has to go to the non-charter school!)

I think the Peter Hoh makes the point well that the management of charter schools varies widely across states. Some are going to be more lax. Some are not. Some will be more open to national for-profit management. Some are decidedly hostile. Some states have such byzantine regulations that make starting a charter school impossible unless you pull political strings (something some good friends of mine discovered the hard way).

What I would want for charter schools is a fair and open process for starting a school combined with rigorous standards for their performance and management.

I would also emphasize that just because a school offers extra services doesn't mean those services are any good. I send my kids to an urban public school, I have been in the IEP meetings, and I have watched the specialists fall on their faces.

Scott M said...

when 29,000 kids are going to be thrown of BadgerCare

How can one be "thrown of" something? Is that similar to "be taken with"?

Original Mike said...

I don't click on your links anymore, Garage, but this:

"The union contract, which expires in 2013, doesn't allow Madison to hire nonunion teachers. Exceptions have been made previously through negotiated agreements between the union and the district."

seems to say the Union could agree to Madison Prep if it wanted to.

Original Mike said...

What are the specifics of 29,000 kids being thrown off BadgerCare? I might agree with you if you made your case but I'm certainly not going to accept your premise. I know you too well.

ignatzk said...

If, like some, you want to blame "crappy parents" they are likely crappy Madison school system educated parents.

If, like some, you want to blame poverty, it is likely the poverty of greedy Madison leftist ideology that needs physical poverty to succor its smug self righteousness.

The best we can hope for is the students educated in Madison schools will stay in Madison.

The better you can do is take your children out of Madison public schools.

The best you can do is stop contributing to the Madison tax base by leaving the city. Let it rot from within on someone else's dime.

Original Mike said...

Oh, I didn't see this: "Now, that appears impossible due to the changes in collective bargaining rules in Act 10."

Still not worth wading through your link. They rarely, if ever, say what you say they say.

MadisonMan said...

I assume there are personnel costs involved.

That's my impression as well. It's not like it's a gift.

garage mahal said...

Still not worth wading through your link. They rarely, if ever, say what you say they say.

It was a link to Althouse on her last post on this topic.

coolkevs said...

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/11/the-expansion-of-badgercare/
Here's the history of BadgerCare. Umm...going from 100,000 to 550,000+ in 2008 strikes me as a tad unsustainable during some of the worst economic times we've ever seen. Wisconsin has been overly nice - I'm suspecting given the number above that the 29,000 kids would not have been on BadgerCare as it was pre-2008. Indeed, this article states that Badgercare "vastly expanded the eligible population by covering people with incomes higher than the original targeted population"
So, where is the money to sustain this and is it the responsibility of Wisconsin state government to sustain it???

ricpic said...

All hands on deck to winch up those 80 IQ minority kids out of the hold and onto the sub-deck.

Fernandinande said...

For the past 20 years, our schools have been ablaze with failure and we have been unable to extinguish the fire.

"Failing schools" are just schools with lots of failing kids; move the kids to a different school and it will become a "failing school". Changing schools, including charted schools, doesn't change or improve the kids' performance and it's been shown repeatedly for the past 30 years.

But US schools actually do pretty damned well on the international PISA tests:
PISA Scores Show Demography Is Destiny In Education Too—But Washington Doesn’t Want You To Know

Carol said...

Oh, the achievement gap again? It's the same way everywhere, isn't it?

You'd think they'd start to figure things out.

EMD said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carol said...

"a fair few number of students there who are just being processed through to graduation."

Fancy that, eh..separate schools, different standards, suspect diplomas. And the Urban League wants this?

LOL

EMD said...

"Public schools work perfectly fine in affluent suburbs, where there is no low-income housing, but yet they still have unions."

These are, by dint of the exceptional admission price of high-priced housing, effectively private schools.

And everyone knows it.


Tim FTW.

Now,I don't pay absurd Althousian levels of property taxes, but I pair a good amount of "tuition."

EMD said...

Pair?

Try pay.

Peter Hoh said...

Fernandinande, here's a charter school that does a great job serving a population that has not been served well by large, urban public school districts: Harvest Prep.

I suspect that this is the kind of program that the Urban League of Madison would like to see.

Curious George said...

"coolkevs said...
http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/11/the-expansion-of-badgercare/
Here's the history of BadgerCare. Umm...going from 100,000 to 550,000+ in 2008 strikes me as a tad unsustainable during some of the worst economic times we've ever seen. Wisconsin has been overly nice - I'm suspecting given the number above that the 29,000 kids would not have been on BadgerCare as it was pre-2008. Indeed, this article states that Badgercare "vastly expanded the eligible population by covering people with incomes higher than the original targeted population"
So, where is the money to sustain this and is it the responsibility of Wisconsin state government to sustain it???"

Yep, garage fails to mention that none of these kids are from poor families. Zero.

Peter said...

The politics of teachers' unions vs. students and their parents is going to play out in Democratic politics in more than a few Democratic-run cities.

it's not as if the parents of these students- poor and poorly educated thought they may be- cannot see that politicians are choosing the unions over the needs of their children.

Which means, increasingly these big-city Democratic politicians will have do decide whether they value the votes of these parents more than the money of the unions.

In Wisconsin, the answer is clearly, the unions win and students lose. But in some other places the answer may be the opposite.

Scott M said...

In Wisconsin, the answer is clearly, the unions win and students lose. But in some other places the answer may be the opposite.

In Detroit, we'll never find out. They can't find a place with the power still on in which to hold the meeting.

garage mahal said...

Changing schools, including charted schools, doesn't change or improve the kids' performance and it's been shown repeatedly for the past 30 years.

Milwaukee has the nation's oldest charter school system, and we're still waiting for the evidence they outperform public schools.

When public schools fail to raise test scores it's a sign of their structural failure. When a charter school fails to raise test scores...Oh well!

The shock doctrine:

1. Erode public confidence smearing public teachers with bogus attacks.

2. Make largest ever cuts to public K-12.

3. As public schools are weakened from the first two attacks, keep pushing for statewide voucher programs.

Henry said...

The garage doctrine:

1. Ignore problems with public schools.

2. Give public schools more money.

3. See 1.

Michael said...

If you care about your kids send them to private schools. Suck it up, spend less on yourself, and send them to private schools that are accountable, directly accountable. Bad teachers don't survive in private schools; there is not organization meant to protect them. I have nothing but great things to say about the schools that my kids attended and I only rarely think about the hundreds of thousands that could otherwise have gone to other uses.

Original Mike said...

100,000 to 550,000 to 471,000. Wow, that's real Simon Legree territory.

gregq said...

"You're competing for taxpayer money, so prove your commitment to not wasting taxpayer money by not draining it through litigation."

Clair's trying to save poor children from the piss-poor schools that the "Teachers'" Union would inflict on them. Good for him. He should fight them any and every way he can.

"Madison" is fighting hard against the democratically elected Republican Legislature and Governor, they deserve to have hte same thing done to them.

gregq said...

" the real objective is to put public money into private pockets. "

And we all know how wrong that is. So let's stop paying all unionized teachers, and stop all other funds going to the teacher's union, because those are private hands, and therefore they shouldn't get any public money.

Sounds good to me!

garage mahal said...

Get a fucking life, loser.

Original Mike said...

"When public schools fail to raise test scores it's a sign of their structural failure. When a charter school fails to raise test scores...Oh well!"

No, if Charter schools fail, defund them.

lawnboy said...

see cowgirl, it's over 30 minutes. it's busy at the liquor store during christmas. i will be gone soon. it's been fun busting your balls but it is like shooting fish in a barrell. i feel some guilt, but not much. maybe you better email meade and be a good liberal ass kissing snitch.

Heart_Collector said...

Its not like im talking about cuming on some fem cunts face or anything.

Jason said...

Remember....

...all for the kids.

David said...

"He lost a political fight."

Yes, but more than that, if he's thinking. He lost the sense that liberals actually a rat's ass about minority children if their political and economic interests are at risk.

Liberal policies are a large factor in the crappy schooling that most black kids get in this country. Yet they continue with approaches that have failed. Sometimes this is because of stubborn stupidity. Sometimes it is for darker reasons, like this time.

lawnboy said...

heart collector, we just delete whenever we like and don't explain. when we get back from our christmas party all liquoured up we'll be in real nasty delete mode. so, if you want an explanation, email me. but i won't be in any shape to respond until sometime on wed. don't like it, call caplight45 @ 1-800-eat-shit. he's my evil twin.

ken in sc said...

The purpose of after school programs is to keep kids from having sex or using drugs until their parent come home. Then they can watch their parents have sex and use drugs.

AJ Lynch said...

Imagine the typical elementary school classroom in 50 years. With technology advances, I'd be surprised if they averaged more than 200 students in grades 1-8 and will be in a nice, safe building that is close to their homes. The school will have very few administrators.

I believe parents will start a revolt very soon and demand school choice and the country will have to dismantle the huge failed education bureaucracies [especially in the big cities]

Carol_Herman said...

Shabazz? Is that like graduating from "Shazzam?"

Instead of "demanding" the schools improve the students ... why not learn from the students who come to America, and do well?

Why not see that in homes that respect books, you usually don't see failures. (Unless the kid's born retarded.)

And, America has FREE LIBRARIES! If you use them, you overcome the shortages that can occur in poor schools.

Throw all the money you like at this one. It's not gonna get better.

And, Dust Bunny Queen: That "visual" with the bingo words just tumbling out ... was one good way to express what happens when an entire community has been brainwashed into believing "just one more entitlement will bring them better educated kids."

You know what's been shunned? The HARD WORK.

MarkD said...

When rape is inevitable....

Yeah, quit. There'll be other kids.