October 23, 2011

"Babe Ruth, twice. Reggie Jackson. Albert Pujols."

"That is the complete list of players with three home runs in a World Series game."

40 comments:

Ron said...

I saw Jackson's on TV. What I remember was he hit 3 different kinds of pitches from 3 different pitchers.
(first pitches? I think so...but can't be 100% sure)

Ron said...

A little research shows...it was indeed 3 first pitches hit by Reggie...

Shouting Thomas said...

Pujols' career is on the same level as the Babe.

Jackson's is not.

Some great moments for Jackson, but he did not do it consistently over his career.

ricpic said...

Saint Louis fans better appreciate Pujols while they've got him, because it's buh bye small market Saint Louis next year.

Maguro said...

Nyjer Morgan could not be reached for comment.

Bob Ellison said...

It wasn't just three first pitches. "With his Game 5 first-pitch homer and his four-pitch walk in the second inning of Game 6, Jackson would homer on his last four swings of the bat in the Series, each off a different Dodger pitcher." (From Wikipedia.)

Ron said...

That's right Bob, I forgot! I also seem to remember them being different kinds of pitches too, not just fastballs...

ST, yes, Reggie was no Babe....or not as good as Pujols...but he is an HOF player, so he did do it as some level consistently.

virgil xenophon said...

Considering Ruth's record as both a pitcher AND a hitter at both Boston and NY one has to ask just what kind of further records would he have set had he made the slightest use of modern training methods (nutrition and weight tng, etc.) not to mention playing in the modern era of the "live" ball--as opposed being to the glutton and boozer that he was..

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Why are the Dodgers the perpetual foil? Here are a few examples off the top of my head:

Jackson's three world series HR's.

Don Larsen's WS perfect game.

Hank Aaron breaks Ruth's HR record.

All against my Dodgers. I was watching two of the three. There are probably more. It's discouragin'.

DADvocate said...

I'm betting they all did it without 'roids.

DADvocate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Uncle Frank said...

I'm not trying to minimize Jackson's performance in the WS against the Dodgers, but before anyone calls him Mr. October, check his record against KC in the '77 ALCS. Also in October.

LarryK said...

Ricpic I think you got it wrong about Pujols - he wants to stay in St. Louis, and it's really more of a mid- than small market. StL draws about 3 mn fans every year and because of their history they have a strong regional following and good TV revenues. Unlike Milwaukee, they have the bucks to pay someone like Pujols, and after this year I think they'll pony up. And does Pujols really want to leave a winner, and the only manager he's ever had, and a community that he both likes and which reveres him? They'll find a way to work it out.

Without a doubt, Reggie Jackson was not in Pujols' league. And although his career is only half over, it does look like he will take his place among the most elite baseball players - Ruth, Williams, and Mays.

Curious George said...

Pujols is a beast. Even as a Cubs fan, I hope he stays with the Cards. He is a Cardinal. And baseball needs that...like Jeter with the Yanks.

virgil xenophon said...

Ron/

I watched Jackson's performance on tv also and it's the first pitch bit that sets him apart and makes his performance so memorable. After the first two there was almost a sense of inevitability about the 3rd--as if the baseball gods and NY Yankee historical zeitgeist had fore-ordained it..

Scott M said...

Saint Louis fans better appreciate Pujols while they've got him, because it's buh bye small market Saint Louis next year.

Define market in the context of your statement. Define small. You've got some interesting thoughts there if you believe St Louis is both.

Ron said...

virgil... weight training and things like that in the '20's? Not so much...

Imagine if Ruth had just used a slightly lighter bat than that monster war club he used!

Yeah, that "inevitability" thing with Reggie in that game...I felt it too!

Reggie does hit 10 HR and .357 in 5 WS....not too shabby.

sorepaw said...

not to mention playing in the modern era of the "live" ball-

Babe Ruth did play in the modern "live ball" era, after 1920. That was whenRay Chapman's death after being hit by a darkened spitball led to a rule requiring the frequent introduction of new, clean balls into a game.

The other considerations do apply.

David said...

Reggie was a great player over a long time. Like the Babe he was also great with the press. His 3 HR on 3 pitches was the most awesome thing I ever saw a hitter do. So kudos to Albert for stepping up to that exalted podium.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

Pujols has a genuine affection for St. Louis and LaRussa, and St. Louis obviously loves Pujols.

If he never plays another game he already has enough "fuck you" money to live like a king and pursue his philanthropic interests. So it's not about money, per se.

However, compensation is how adults, especially pro athletes, keep score. If he stays healthy, he'll go down in history as one of the top 5 players ever -- and possibly the very best to ever play the game. Accordingly, he deserves a ginormous compensation package to reflect that fact. It's about the market validating him as the elite of the elite.

And in that regard, I don't think St. Louis can pay him what he's worth.

Almost Ali said...

That latch pitch was served up on a silver platter; fast ball in Pujol's wheel-house. Home run. Whoopee.

I suppose the pitcher [also] wanted to be part of history.

ndspinelli said...

Pujols is in the top 3 hitters in my lifetime.

Carol_Herman said...

Wasn't Reggie Jackson called "Mr. October?"

Meanwhile, yesterday's game was a complete blowout for the Cardinals.

So the Cardinals have won two. And, Texas one. Probably means we're watching a six or seven game series.

Craig said...

Prohibition was the law of the land. Ruth needs an asterisk.

Almost Ali said...

..."last" pitch.

Ron said...

I wonder how Cardinals fans feel about Pujols vs Musial as players....

Craig said...

El Hombre?

Kit said...

CG, as a Brewers fan, I also agree. Great talent, without all the outside garbage - I, actually, really like the guy.

Scott M said...

Accordingly, he deserves a ginormous compensation package to reflect that fact. It's about the market validating him as the elite of the elite.

He turned down a 9-year, $190-200 million contract, if memory serves, but the reasons were unclear. Two slightly "inside baseball" tidbits from here in St Louis. First, one of my good friends works for a contractor that redid the deck at Pujol's cabin on Lake Ozark. They were redoing a lot of stuff to both that location and the local one here in STL. While that could mean they're fixing up to sell, it was my friend (and his boss') take that Pujols and his wife were setting in for the long haul. Secondly, I was fortunate enough to get invited to a benefit that the Pujols through last Christmas at the Chase Park hotel. Less than 12 months ago, both of them were talking about doing the work their organization is doing for years to come. Again, not a smoking gun for him staying, but the way they phrased their statements that evening led me to believe that they aren't going anywhere. From that same evening, Chuck Berry is aging poorly, but still wears the hat.

All that having been said, it's just a likely he'll quit baseball all together than move back to Santo Domingo.

LarryK said...

I think the magic numbers for Pujols staying in StL are 10 years, $250 million, with a few sweeteners for performance, retirement options etc. There may a team out there that offers a little more (eg Chicago), but they won't be a winner, and Pujols will not go to a loser organization. I think the Cardinals will come through with these numbers - it's more than they want to pay, but they can afford it and the PR and revenue hit from losing Pujols will be even greater (I bet attendance falls by at least 300K/yr for three years; multiply the loss of a million paying fans by about $60 per trip to the ballpark and the team is better off keeping him and paying $250 mn than losing him and sticking with the $200 mn offer). Pujols wants to be a Cardinal for life, but he's also very aware that he's the best player in the game and wants a contract that's commensurate with that status, and I think a quarter billion will do the trick.

Scott M said...

Are the Cardinals winning the World Series (which we will) just another example of this solidly midwestern city being to "uppity"?

...granted...this is balanced out by the Rams... The Rams are to professional football what Detroit is to successful cities.

yoobee said...

"one has to ask just what kind of further records would [Babe Ruth] have set had he made the slightest use of modern training methods (nutrition and weight tng, etc.)"

That argument cuts the other way too...what if the pitchers Ruth faced were as good as the pitchers today? Granted there were several great pitchers in that time, but my guess is that the average talent was not nearly what it is today. On the other hand, ballparks were bigger then, so he might have hit a lot more if he played in today's game. It's hard to guess things like that. But the comment about the "live ball" era is completely wrong. As another person pointed out, Ruth played most of his career during the live ball era.

As for Pujols, he hit his home runs off three different pitchers last night. In the same game, he also tied the records for most hits and rbi in a World Series game, and set the record for total bases. Neither Jackson nor Ruth did all of those things in one game.

Cardinals fans love Pujols almost as much as they love Musial, and the two have great respect for one another. Pujols has often said he would love to make a career of playing for the Cardinals the way Stan did.

rcocean said...

Ruth suffered under a lot of Handicaps. Bad bat, no modern training methods, smoker & drinker, no real sports medicine. And you got to add no real motivation in the 1930s to keep breaking his own HR records.

The pitching talent wasn't as diluted. Ruth faced the 160 best pitchers, 17 of whom were allowed to throw spitballs even after 1920.

Conserve Liberty said...

There's just too much BS out there.

The 13 partners who own the St. Louis Cardinals have all the money they need to have to pay Albert Pujols all the money he needs to be paid.

Scott Boras' ego is the real problem.

And they're ALL 1%'ers - so fuck off #OWS

Jose_K said...

Babe ruth began playing at Fenway sandbox ,296.Then went to Polo Ground 272 in the RF. The hr heard around the world was a flyball to shallow RF at Tiger Stadiums and would have catched by the 2b. And ended at the old, old Yankee Stadium an its staggering 306.
The dead ball era ended just after he went to NY.
Then, there were 8 teams in each league so it was easy to know them all .
Travels were on train and short
Pitchers batted and were there until their arms fell apart.
He, like every great batter, had advantages. Of course , they were commons to all but only them proffited.
Ted Williams playing at Fenway sandbox.
Willie Mays only had the expansion pitching dilution.
Today is harder to bat:
Advanced scouting, sabermetrics, computer records and analysis, videos.
Starters going 6 or 7 innings. For LHBs a loogy. Then a setup and the closer.
Travels from NY to San Diego.
Bigger stadiums and on harder weather conditions. A longer season and specially post season.
Most games are night games so less light.
Bats are far worse than in the old era. The mapple bat are the worst ever used.
Pitchers throwing 100 miles in the 9th inning like Verlander did with the 109 pitch of the no hit against the Brewers? There were none like him in Ruth times.
Said that, Pujols is not so good against the AL. He has struggled against them both in WS and interleague games.The best hitter in baseball is José Miguel Cabrera.
And of course blame it on Kulpa. Without the most outrageous miscall since Joyce , the game was another one.

Chip S. said...

Jose K, Most of your points are good ones, but you are way off base regarding Fenway Park being a "sandbox" (I assume you meant "bandbox") when Ruth played there.

In his time the distances were 488 to center field (got some doubts about this figure) and 405 to the right-field power alley, and 313 down the RF line. It's old Yankee Stadium where the distance down the RF line was 296. After Ted Williams's rookie year they installed the outfield bullpens, reducing the distance in the RF power alley to a "mere" 380.

OTOH, there was significant dilution of pitching talent in Ruth's and most of Williams's era because blacks were banned from MLB.

Jose_K said...

Forbes puts Pujols over Gibson as best Cardinals. No way.
Stan The Man. Bob Gibson. The racist Dean

Why are the Dodgers the perpetual foil?
The Dodgers had the best 1-2 ever to pitch. Koufax- Drysdale. They have been 22 times to the postseason.
And with the Yankees have the gratest rivalry of sports. Not the phony espn created between Yankees and BoSox( I can writte the latter name the right way ,because i dont want to be banned)
They have some of the best moments of the WS . The 1981, ferdandomania year, over the yankees. The yankees only went that time to the WS between 1979 and 1995( When Eric Gegg gave then a free pass over a a fan inteference on a flyouut by captain supeflous that was called hr)
The Gibson hr or the heroics of Hershiser.
And on top of that the boys of the summer of 1955, breaking the Yankees dominance.
Not only pitchers were all white. many were cricket players because there were not enought white people for 16 teams with four starters.Today, they come from Japan, Australia, Venezuela. Dominican republic , Cuba. Even a frenchman pitched and he was good one ( he had a no hit on july the 14 th)

Joe Schmoe said...

I think he stays in St. Lo. Yankees have Texeira; Red Sox have Adrian Gonzalez. Those are the two biggest wallets out there.

Theo Epstein as new ChiCub GM could try to make a splash by prying him away, though. That'll be fun to watch.

Re: Pujols possibly as best ever; tough to make that case for a first baseman. That position just doesn't have the cache of CF, 3B, or SS. A good hitting catcher has more of an impact on a game than a 1B too. If he has 5-6 more seasons like he has recently, he'll be regarded as the right-handed Ted Williams.

Pujols appears to be a beloved model citizen while Reggie Jax was a complete douche on the Yanks.

Joe Schmoe said...

Jose K, if pitchers are so dominant now, why are there so few 20 game winners? Nobody's won 30 games since the late 60s.

How many guys besides Verlander now throw 100 in late innings? Nobody. He's unique in that regard. We can't toss it out that everyone's doing it because they aren't.

Without radar guns, we don't know if anyone did that back in the 1920's. By many written accounts, Walter Johnson threw in the upper 90's, and he rarely came out for relievers. This is before weight training and all that other stuff.

All of the pitching advantages you cite, like scouting and video, are available to hitters, too. Hitters can also get unlimited batting practice using pitching machines that throw harder than Verlander.

virgil xenophon said...

Sportsfans/

Lets not forget other rules changes like shaving the top six inches off the pitchers mound in ,iirc 67 after people like Gibson's dominance in the early 60s. Also the foul ball poles have been repositioned from the days Ruth played, so that has some influence on hitting also.