August 12, 2011

Attack on Althouse at the Wisconsin Capitol singalong.

As discussed in an earlier post, a man attacked me today at the Capitol. We captured the assault on 2 different cameras, and I'm not editing the material together (at least not at this point). First, here's what Meade got on the Flip camera. He wasn't deliberately filming me, so some of this is unframed or off camera.



The man doing all the talking about politics and religion is not the attacker. Please note how friendly and nonconfrontational I am. I don't put my camera in anyone's face. I'm just recording a guy who's basically performing for the camera. He's yelling at a friend who is a Christian minister (and a commenter here, as "caplight"). You can see my son Chris on the right, in dark sunglasses, at 3:00. The attacker is the man with the "solidarity" armband, visible clearly at 3:38.

In the middle of the screen, at 3:38, in the red "fist" T-shirt and holding a heart-shaped balloon, is the man who pointed me out in the rotunda yesterday and who (apparently) participated in the comments yesterday under the pseudonym "Dirty Hippie." He talks to the attacker just before the attacker yells "You're socially retarded" and attacks me. The attack is at 3:58, off camera. Meade yells "hey" a few times and gets the incident framed. At 4:00, you see Chris detaching that man's hands from me. At 4:04, I yell "police" and the 2 men mock me, yelling "police!" in their girlie voice. At 7:12, the talkative guy tells the police what "transpired." He clearly states that the other man grabbed my camera (and portrays himself as the peacemaker).

The second camera was held by me. I'm processing that now. It gives you a first-hand view of the attack and my discussion with the police.

ADDED: Here's my video, with explanatory text appearing as subtitles.

554 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 400 of 554   Newer›   Newest»
Seven Machos said...

I'd go straight to jail to protect my Mom from assault and battery. Fuck the law at that point.

Chris Althouse Cohen said...

..and if he wasn't wrong, I'm glad I've chosen to live in states like Texas and California that have laws that side with the victim in those situations.

Canuck said...

"but your story about the fire and theft makes me sick. Don't be a victim for goodness sakes."

Yes, I really hope there were extenuating circumstances, (Perhaps he was a good friend of your son?) because you need to protect yourself. And getting away with it most likely didn't do this kid any favours.

I think you do perhaps feel too safe around crowds because it's in your hometown and Madison is generally safe. And most of the protesters are non-violent.

However, it just takes one crazy person. No more naivety. Bat sh*t crazy people are attracted to protest movements. Attention on the crowd, be safe, be smart, act defensively to protect yourself in a proactive manner.

You make yourself into a target with the camera. Crowds have their own psychology and loopy people are drawn to intense crowds. Remember that.

William said...

This was the observation back in Reagan's day: The radicals took over the English Department and the Republicans took over the Defense Department....Well, let the protestors take over the red balloons, and leave the legislature, courts, and governor's office in Republican hands..... I second the motions of Canuck and Titus. It's a fine summmer day, and there are better things to do then watch losers coagulate. As Titus would say, if you spend too much time interacting with assholes, shit happens.

Trooper York said...

On the other hand if you bitch slap Bob Wright I will pay your bail.

Just sayn'

ironrailsironweights said...

Too bad you didn't take advantage of Wisconsin's concealed carry laws and bust a cap in those mo-fo's.

I am quite intoxicated, if you haven't guessed.

Peter

Lombardi Chick said...

Chris, you're a good guy, defending your mother the way you did. Kudos.

Trooper York said...

Hey Peter.

I have it from very good sources that Snooki has an Oscar Gamble.

Just sayn' dude.

Turn on MTV.

Dustin said...

Garage is a goon.

I think this thread is pretty damn good indication of that.

Oh, he needs to defend his team. Pathetic.

I still did not report the arson. Or the theft. That's just the way I am.

Ann Althouse, the last thing you should do is advertise to the world that you will let this slide legally.

This event could have gone a number of ways, one of which could have cost your son had he lost control of himself. I suggest you ask the batterer be prosecuted. Make sure the next coward (striking an older lady is as cowardly as it gets) has something tangible to fear.

It amazes me this cop wasn't showing Chris gratitude for his restraint. I think this cop needs training.

Chris Althouse Cohen said...

Also, thanks for all the nice compliments.

MarkG said...

Chris,

One option you may have is to file a complaint against Officer Calhoun if you think you were misled. The Madison PD would have to deal with the complaint, and the officers working the protest might be better prepared next time. The squeaky wheel and all that.

Meade said...

Chris Althouse Cohen said...
"..and if he wasn't wrong, I'm glad I've chosen to live in states like Texas and California that have laws that side with the victim in those situations."

Laws can be changed. We recently changed a few laws here in Wisconsin and I expect we will change more. Wisconsin's greatest days are ahead.

Prosqtor said...

Chris:

You don't need an expert on Wisconsin law. The right of self-defense is not exactly the same in all 50 (57?) States, but I assure you that you did not commit a crime in any American jurisdiction. England, maybe. Heck, you can't even konk a burglar on the head there.

Darleen said...

Chris, you absolutely did the right thing.

I had a cop try and pull the same bs line on me when I was chaperoning a bunch of band kids on one of our tours. One night some drunk got pissed because one of the kids mistook his door and knocked believing it was one of the chaperones. Guy started chasing the kid, shoving other kids around, screaming. One other kid planted himself of this staggering idiot and the drunk banged into him, falling on his butt.

Cop had the audacity to tell me that “impeding the man’s forward motion could be considered assault.”

I told him he was out-of-line, that the drunk was the problem and he wasn’t going to talk to ANY of the kids without me being right next to them. Stood toe-to-toe with the guy … I literally had my face within 8 inches of his and was one cold *itch and I was ready to go to jail for “my” kids.

I didn’t go to jail and the cops only asked a couple of questions of the kids with me there and moved on.

I went back to my room later and had a huge case of the shakes.

I work with law enforcement and too many are in the job that should not be there ... they are more interested in getting through the day without writing a report then doing the "serve & protect" part.

And the cop trying tell you to DO NOTHING isn't helping the stereotype be being such a fat tub of union lard.

Seven Machos said...

On the plus side, in England it is far, far easier to sue that burglar for slander.

Prosqtor said...

Loved that slander line, SM.

garage mahal said...

She was no innocent in that incident, and I suspect you know that very well.

The MoveOn lady was definitely up to mischief, wanting to get a picture of Rand Paul with the "award" sign she tried giving him. But he did get into legal trouble from it and had to pay her medical bills:

Ex-Paul campaign volunteer gets probation in assault of activist

So were still back to "bitch deserved it"?

Mary Beth said...

The guy grabbed my arm hard enough so that I had fingernail cuts on my wrist, and I could still feel where he grabbed me when I was talking to the police afterwards.

I hope he's had his rabies vaccine.

Canuck said...

"..and if he wasn't wrong, I'm glad I've chosen to live in states like Texas and California that have laws that side with the victim in those situations."

My sense of public order/ keeping the peace stuff is that both people are arrested if there is any confusion.

At a bar fight cops usually don't ask, "well, were you just protecting your friend/girlfriend before you got into this fight..." They just arrest anybody who got physical and call it a day. The cop was telling you not to inject yourself in a physical way.

He didn't know exactly what happened. Did he? Perhaps he saw it? But I'm guessing he didn't know that it wasn't easy to remove yourself and your mother physically from the situation at that point.

The cop doesn't know if you're a trouble-maker or not. Did he think you were provoking a fight? Did he think you engaged in a physical way? He might not have seen what happened.

I understand your frustration, but from his point of view you're complaining to him but don't want anybody arrested -- that might seem odd.

MarkG said...

It seems like the protesters are unaccustomed to dissent in their presence, and the police seem unprepared for conflict. It would be public service to make a stink about both the protester's behavior (blowing a vuvuzela in someone's face) and having the police unable to respond in a reasonable manner.

Seven Machos said...

Concerning the law, here are two better questions:

1. What district attorney in his right mind is going to pursue a case against a son who was defending his 60-year-old mother from another man?

2. What judge or jury is going to convict that son?

I said keep gender out of it. I stand by that. But mother is a different deal and the law doesn't really matter when these human factors are all at play.

What I think the cop was really trying to say is he wishes all these people would all just go home.

traditionalguy said...

The most interesting thing The Professor has said was that she does not do harm to others who have harmed her.

What we have here is a one in a million person who does no harm to others, or to bugs.

It seems to me that in today's climate of lawlessness, God specially sent her a Mr. Meade to guard the charming harmless woman that He named Ann.

My Coptic Egyptian friends used to tell me that the test for a strong christian are the scriptures that order them to turn the other cheek and pray for their enemies.

You make life better, dear Professor.

David R. Graham said...

"Talkative" guy in the gray cut-off sweat shirt and tan shorts is no clergyman. That's a cover. He's a paid agitator with a clever script pining multiculturalism on Jesus the Christ. Ha!

Only question is, who's paying him? He is talented, a prime hire. Operationally, his role is what in the military is called "perimeter," i.e., guarding the perimeter of an op from incursion that could disrupt, defeat or distract the op. This is a professional organization you were facing. They took your attention away from the demonstration proper, fulfilling their mission. You were unaware and outclassed, and lucky to come away as whole as you did.

Recall the warning/guidance/shot-over-the-bow issued by Capitol Police, whom you were provoked/manipulated to call. CP were serious and will ever present a united front in that regard. You might be able to correct their approach, and it should be corrected -- son-protecting-mother is primal, prius, and congratulations on having reared such a son -- but are you willing to spend the time, money and energy to make the point in statute or court? Police bet not. They are bureaucrats, not moral or legal arbiters. Their bet paid off when you declined to press charges but they know well enough the high probability it would have paid off if you HAD pressed charges. They know the courts and the neighborhood, their customers.

The perimeter guy and his operator buddy who attacked you (operator teams, including police, work in pairs and groups of pairs) succeeded in keeping you out of the the operation and potentially subverting it (face IDs of participants, etc). You faced more than you knew and were in over your head. Besides keeping you out of their area of operations, their mission was to get you and your son arrested for assault, i.e., hostile incursion into a "peaceful demonstration." I am glad they failed at that aspect.

Besides the "talkative" guy's rhetoric and bumptiousness, the tells were his ability to call off the guy who attacked you and divert police attention from him to you and your son. He had all the rhetoric in place, knew just what to say to CP. A professional agitator.

You were outdone because you were unaware of the preparation and skill of the force you faced. You were defeated by your lack of situational awareness. Morally and legally you will claim victory and you would be right about that, at least morally. But in the area of operations the demonstrators defined, you were defeated: you were forced out of the area by the police you asked for help. Win-Win for the demonstrators. You could not control the area of operations and were instead controlled by its creators.

I am happy you and you son were not physically injured more than you were. Emotionally, and more to the point, spiritually, is another matter, as you know.

Please try to take your conceptuality of these situations toward which you rightly and, for the nation's and race's welfare, helpfully gravitate out of lawyer framework and into military framework. It will improve your safety by heightening your situational awareness. Or, stay out of areas of operation defined by skilled professionals knowledgeable in manipulating, and more to the point, inventing the law.

Lawyers have some power in courtrooms. On battlefields, qua lawyers, they have none. Life is more battlefields than courtrooms. In this event you were on a battlefield your opponents controlled and skillfully maneuvered you into thinking was a courtroom (legal situation). It wasn't and CP told you it wasn't. It's a bitter pill, I know, having swallowed it more than once.

MayBee said...

Seriously.

When you see grown women holding red heart shaped balloons as a symbol of the righteousness of their cause, you need to steer clear of everyone involved.

Not that anything bad that happens after that will be your fault, but you have to know when you are dealing with bat shit crazy people.

Canuck said...

"2. What judge or jury is going to convict that son?"

They wouldn't. It would never go to trial.

And if the police saw the video he would have most likely praised Chris.

Chris did a good thing - he acted defensively to calm the situation and protect his mother. It was smart and he did a good job controlling the crowd.

Lombardi Chick said...

So were still back to "bitch deserved it"?

Who said, "bitch deserved it"?

The point is that the people who pulled her to the curb didn't know her intent. All they saw was a hostile person charging their candidate.

Try that with Obama and see what happens.

Lombardi Chick said...

And count me among those who think the self-appointed "preacher" has more than one screw loose.

garage mahal said...

You asked
Who said, "bitch deserved it"?

Then answered yourself:

The point is that the people who pulled her to the curb didn't know her intent. All they saw was a hostile person charging their candidate.

ironrailsironweights said...

So far I've had a 24-ounce can of Four Loko (12% alcohol) and six shots of Canadian Club. Now I'm deciding whether to knock off a half-full bottle of port wine or have the remaining three or so shots in a bottle of Maker's Mark bourbon.

When that's done I don't think there's any more alcohol remaining in the house, though I do have a couple Xanax pills.

Peter

M Jordan said...

My only question is, why didn't someone take on this jackass? I'm talking about the loudmouth. His argument should have been annihilated. For instance, why not respond with his Jesus only cared for the poor meme with, Jesus hung around a lot of rich people. He was financed by rich women like Joanna and Susanna. Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea were wealthy ... And they provided Jesus with a rich man's burial. It's completely bogus to think Jesus only cared for the poor. Jesus railed on wealth because it insulates people from their real needs.

It bugs me to death that douchebags like this clown are not taken to task on their cartoonish philosophies.

David said...

Hey Garage that particular lady (you called her a bitch) did deserve it.

Meade said...

"What I think the cop was really trying to say is he wishes all these people would all just go home. "

That is exactly right. The Capitol police officer I talked to (off camera) soon after we arrived today told me "this is ruining my family." By "this" he meant the protests - the overtime, the stress and tension. Since February, I've had more than half a dozen conversations with that officer. He in particular has not supported the protesters but of course he has had to follow orders from his superiors.

chickenlittle said...

@Christopher Cohen Althouse: Ya done good. I would have done the same for my mom (who also lives in Madison but would never think to go down to the Square like that).

Canuck said...

"My only question is, why didn't someone take on this jackass? I'm talking about the loudmouth. His argument should have been annihilated."

Watching this video makes me feel sick to my stomach. What argument? He seems unhinged.

The guy who attacked I identified as a potentially dangerous person in one of the videos early on. He looks angry. That's dangerous.

If you're going to not just film crowds from a safe distance, but get in close and mix it up verbally, it's all the more important to identify this sort of body language for your own safety.

And you really need to keep in mind that some people are mentally ill and/or potentially dangerous with low inhibitions.

Glad you are all safe.

jim said...

Wasn't that fat cop the same guy who fell asleep in the Capitol? The one with the filthy feet? Maybe the other Capitol Cops recruited him.

chickenlittle said...

@garage mahal: I am trying to honor my earlier offer to lay off you but why are you talking about Rand Paul?

BTW, I know you hate the flag, but what do you have against motherhood?

What's next, apple pie?

hoop said...

I think you need to tone down the hops in your local brews. The people in Wisconsin have been mighty testy lately. ;-)

But seriously, you all are more entertaining than any movie. If it wasn't actually real life, I'd never have to pay the theater again (and I wait until movies hit the cheap seats).

And there's really no question what happened here. The strongest move the left can make is to disown the guy (hey, all political ideologies have a few douches who tag along) and move on. We can all respect that.

caplight said...

Titus
The camera adds ten pounds. Though I did have one of those cream puffs while visiting your fair state. Now I will cry myself to sleep.

Dianna said...

Only just read about this (work). I hope you are all right.

Palladian said...

Chris Althouse Cohen, you're an amazing guy and you have my respect. You did what any sensible person would have done and you're right that that cop's statement was meant to discourage you, as a victim, from "making trouble".

Best wishes to all of you from PalladianHouse

Palladian said...

Caplight, don't mind Titus, he's just bitter that he looks like a battered 70s-vintage Gucci handbag trading to the lowest bidder on eBay.

DADvocate said...

So were still back to "bitch deserved it"?

A simple rule you should contemplate following, when you're in a hole, quit digging.

When do you get your brown shirt, or do you already have it?

JAL said...

I just listened to part of the discussion with the cop and Chris at the end of the professor's video.

Granted only a picked up a little ... (I HAVE to get to bed!) but it sure sounded like a threat (very nicely done) to me!

Words to the effect -- "I could write him a disorderly conduct ticket and because he's from out of state he'd have to go to jail ... and I could write you too a ticket and the assumption (on his part) that you were from out of state also meant you (Professor) would have to go to jail ...

What the hey?

Who was talking to the jerk in the fisted red shirt? Why would this cop write YOU a ticket for DC?

And as Matthew mentioned waaaay back in the early comments, the cop does not know the law. But he is committed ... COMMITTED to keeping the peace by overlooking every infraction lest he disturb the song and dance masturbation by the brats.

("Look buddy -- tough sh*t. You want to be out here, there are going to be other people out here too. Taking pictures even. It's a free country. [For now.] If you can't keep your hands off other people you're looking at an assault & battery or a disporderly conduct charge. Behave yourself. And leave the tousists and bloggers and everyone else alone.")

That was easy.

Edward Von Bear said...

too bad Althouse supported Obama, the "smart Law Professor", over the old guy who picked the baby birthin' snowbilly.

JAL said...

Of course, one might say your unwillingness to pursue prosecuting a guy who sets fire to your basement while someone is sleeping upstairs, and steals stuff from you besides is a similar type of "peacekeeping," right?

I mean you just talk to them and tell them to keep their distance and not provoke the wild animals by pointing cameras at them and everything willl be fine. And we'll talk about how this wasn't a smart or safe thing to do to set a fire in a house, especially with people in it and how taking people's stuff will get you in trouble some day and they won't like you or trust you anymore.

But that can wait for another discussion.

Seven Machos said...

Honestly, Edward: what does Obama have to do with any of this?

walter said...

"It's your responsibility to move away". i.e. bend over, spread wide...smile.

Ann..the only thing that thug will recognize is arrest. Use it or lose it.

A. Shmendrik said...

The guy with the Vuvuzela (sp?) - the main focus of the video is like an evil crossing between Perry King and Tom Driesen.

But seriously, I think the folks at home in various places around the country who are not experienced in Madison may not understand that in addition to the overlay of political wackos that are clustered in Madison, you have mentally ill folks who tend to ride public transportation (i.e., buses). In Madison, due to simple geography, many of the bus routes overlap on the Capitol square. Thus, if one were offered $1M to find one certifiably mentally ill person in Madison in, say, the next 10 minutes, the safe bet on any day of the week would be to head to the Capitol Square.

My advice to Prof. Althouse is: your documentation/coverage of this phenomenon known as public protest in Madison is exceptionally valuable. (In all other aspects the blog is superb as well, but on this Walker v. the Unions kerfuffle, et. seq., it has been especially great.) It is a true public service to have this cinema verite perspective available via your blog site. Please be careful, there are a lot of crazies out there and as we have seen in things like the Tucson shooting in January, crazy people are sometimes drawn to political events, where they sometimes do violence that is not even recognizable as part of a coherent political motivation. Keep covering this stuff, but consider a telephoto lens and a parabolic microphone.

walter said...

"Crazy people are sometimes drawn to political events, where they sometimes do violence that is not even recognizable as part of a coherent political motivation. "

True. But there is such a preponderance of incohesive politic on the Madisonian left, it becomes hard to separate the Pfffft from the shat. But grabbing cams in a public space is beyond shat.

Carol_Herman said...

Remember when Obama went after Office Crowley of the Cambridge Police Department ... because the "scholar" Gates was arrested at what turned out to be his own front door?

But he didn't have a key to enter. So the cops got called. At Professor Gates of Harvahd got screaming mad?

Then Obama at a press conference early in his presidency ... just dropped the bombshell "Officer Crowley Acted Stupidly."

Exactly how did that work out for him, huh?

Discount the beer summit.

With the frauds from the media invited to the Rose Garden. But kept away from the 4 beer drinkers at the table. Where the media heard nothing. They were not allowed to capture sound.

All over America the word went out that "Officer Crowley acted stupidly."

The full weight of whatever it is that a president can deliver to an ordinary citizen ... went out to destroy Officer Crowley.

Just in case you don't remember this. HELLO!

Keep the faith.

The "preacher" comes off as a liar.

And, there's video.

And, you, Chris Althouse Cohen have Calhoun's name.

Call Ken Thompson.

And, tell your mom not to wash the white shirt she was wearing.

Also, it seems to me something happened to Kirby Jones' vuvu-zuva ... How did it get shortened between frames? Did he break off a piece to give to someone as a souvenir?

Wouldn't CONSIPRACY come in to play IF two people talk to each other ... to help an assault happen?

You know. Investigating the relationships between Calhoun. The "preacher." And, the sex pervert.

If you go "civil," it won't cost you anything. You go "contingency." And, you'd be surprised ... but attorneys who need to win cases don't depend on government jerks to collect evidence.

As a matter of fact, in front of a jury they can show how the gov'mint screwed up.

Jurors are finders of fact. They listen to both sides. But they pick only one.

"Sponsorship." Since I'm not a lawyer I'm not supposed to know this term. But both sides can "sponsor" an argument ... by the process of bringing evidence to the attention of jurors.

The best legal advice you can get would be to know the name of the best attorney in town.

Joanna said...

Wisconsin's greatest days are ahead.

They better be.

Sigh.

george said...

I live in the South. Any guy that attacked a woman in the presence of her son and husband would have been beaten down like the dog that he is. The cop would have patted us on the back and taken the perp to jail.

That is how it is done in a place where civilization still exists.

And remember Ann you voted for this. Obama was a rabble rouser just like these guys and he did not hide his intentions to be a thug once he became president. He is the political equivalent of these street thugs and he has created the atmosphere that makes them feel safe to assault you. I doubt you would agree with that but when the justice department won't go after guys using clubs to intimidate voters at polling places the message has been sent in as clear a way as is possible.

By not reporting or punishing those who assail you, you are not taking the high road. You are just encouraging and emboldening them. You are also working at odds against the system of law you have spent your life studying. The criminal justice system cannot work if people do not do their part by pressing charges... even in the face of a lazy, ignorant and recalcitrant cop.

Arsonists like to set fires and will continue to do so until they are forced to stop. Crazy thugs like to rant, and intimidate and assault. They are masters at judging their victims and knowing what they can get away with. They saw you as a political enemy which is a mark in your favor. But they also marked you as weak. That is the only lesson they will draw from this sorry episode. They hit you and you took it. They have now been encouraged, emboldened and empowered.

Someone has to stop them or we will end up like the UK.

grackle said...

It’s good that the attacker didn’t harm anyone. Some thoughts. You were lucky this time. He didn’t completely lose his temper. Next time he could. It only takes an instant to do great harm. What if he’s the stalking type? I’ll bet he knows who you are; do you know who he is? If you ever see him or the phony preacher again it would not be a good sign. If I were you I would be a little worried at this point.

Seven Machos said...

George: what does any of this have to do with Obama?

caplight said...

Ann was videoing as were Meade and I. They approached us and got in our faces or cameras. Ann was not smirking she was smiling and trying to be pleasant while shooting. She did not invade their space she was harassed by them. Gray shirt was not crazy. May look it on video but he didnt give that vibe in person. Red shirt seemed unpredictable from the start. He just seemed off.

My take is that the protesters are pretty much known to each other. I was there taking pictures about ten minutes before Ann, Meade and Chris arrived. I was drawing lot of looks, too many in retrospect. There is an air of suspicion of outsiders. Once I greeted Ann and Meade I was marked. No one would talk to me and the harrassment began. The two of them are definitely marked and people feel quite comfortable making comments about them rather loudly which sets a tone that invites further abuse.

The sing-a-long as they like to call it reminds me of revival services I've seen on the town square in little mid western towns. There is a religious quality to it. Quite benign for the most part but only for insiders.

The Professor has guts. She is a very courageous lady and it was privilege to watch her in action. Cool under fire. Meade too with the added ability to be able to talk to just about anybody. Very disarming.

Seven Machos said...

Caplight -- There is a point when the talkative guy sort of shoos the red guy behind him and seems to suggest that it would be in everyone's best interest if the red guy was not in the foreground.

mbabbitt said...

Jesus did not say, "When I was hungry, you sent the government to feed me." He did say, "When I was hungry, you fed me." You as a person fed the poor; not a government agency paid for by a redistributon of wealth ideology. Additionally, for a union thug to claim to be one of the oppressed is laughable. And what is it with this man and his unrepentant rage -- is this in any way Christian?

bobby said...

"You know, bobby, if you want anyone to read your 5000-word post, you might start by getting her name right."

Sorry, Ann. My wife is "Anne." I remember once spelling it without the "e". It is not a good memory. Now the "e" is the default spelling.

Son of Ann: Yes, the cop gave you incorrect legal advice. However, he's not your lawyer. He's also not obliged to tell anyone the truth. About anything.

Here's what he accomplished: The fighting was over. There was no worked-up crowd, no arrest or citation, no need for his boss to send out a reinforcement while he transported, and no newspaper stories the next day by some partisan witness decrying the obvious injustice of (fill in the blank.) He may have made it home on time.

For the cop, this was Mission Accomplished. On his usual, non-protest-day duty, he's looking at knifed women, squashed drivers, buggered children, and house fires. Here, he's got a law school prof claiming that someone pushed her camera away from their face.

And this incident carries many times the career risk for him as does his real work.

caplight said...

Seven Machos
Yes, I see that now that I'm home and able to look at. There was something hinky about Red Shirt from the get go. Seeing it now, Gray Shirt looks more like a professional agitator.

Lombardi Chick said...

You asked
Who said, "bitch deserved it"?

Then answered yourself:

The point is that the people who pulled her to the curb didn't know her intent. All they saw was a hostile person charging their candidate.


Zzzzzzz.

I know this game. You're creating an issue where there is none, and ignoring the one that exists.

Do me a favor and don't tell me what I said, particularly when I said no such thing.

I asked you (and you ignored the question): Is she responsible at all, for her clearly pre-meditated act of throwing her hostile little agitating body into a moving vehicle on the side carrying a candidate, or did the big, bad conservatives make her do that?

I asked you (and you ignored the question): What would happen to you if you did that to Obama's motorcade?

She came looking for an incident, and she got one (albeit maybe more than she bargained for...I don't know what she expected or wanted to happen).

That's quite a different thing than what happened to Ann, who didn't do ANYTHING wrong...so it was a ridiculous comparison, which was my original point.

Methadras said...

Holy shit, the leftard reality distortion field was set to transwarp 1 billion. Personally, if that dude grabbed my wife like that I wouldn't be trying to frame the camera except through his fucking head.

Methadras said...

Hats off to Chris for being there with his mother and defending her.

Darleen said...

For the cop, this was Mission Accomplished. On his usual, non-protest-day duty, he's looking at knifed women, squashed drivers, buggered children, and house fires. Here, he's got a law school prof claiming that someone pushed her camera away from their face.

And this incident carries many times the career risk for him as does his real work.


If he doesn't want to do his job - which is "to serve and to protect" everyone, even law profs, then he either gets out of his job or he stops telling people they don't have any right to defend themselves and their family.

His "real work" is everyone. Period.

Methadras said...

Guys, don't you understand by now that the only thing garage understands or ever will understand is a baseball bat to the side of the head? That's what this bottom feeder needs frankly and if you are going to feed his perpetual trolling frenzy, do what is the right thing to do to trolls. KILL THEM WITH FIRE!!! If it works in D&D, it will work in real life. :D Goodnight.

Methadras said...

Darleen said...

If he doesn't want to do his job - which is "to serve and to protect" everyone, even law profs, then he either gets out of his job or he stops telling people they don't have any right to defend themselves and their family.

His "real work" is everyone. Period.


Darleen, could you not see it in his demeanor and his body language? He was being inconvenienced. All he wants in life is freshly made donuts and an empty seat to enjoy them in. Being put upon by the hoi peloi is just to much for officer squishy.

Darleen said...

oh, Ann .. isn't this cute? Scotty Kaufman is sneering that this man was being "rude" and, the mercenary you are, are cashing in on it by claiming to be a victim.

walter said...

Again...going out of your way to say you don't want the sh_thead arrested just perpetuates such crap. Make officer Squishy earn his Doh!-nut. He's probably getting time and a half for it anyway. Like you said, you have video for ID. What makes you considerate of a thug..with your son present? Avoiding prosecution can seem prudent until someone actually gets hurt.

walter said...

..lest we forget you are a legal scholar.

Apfelkuchen said...

Ann, why go into a crowd of protestors who know what your politics are, especially Meades and that you write a conservative blog, with a camera and a smirk like grin and expect that you won't antagonize unstable people at a left wing protest?

The perp was wrong to attack you in any way, but as a grown woman with exceptional intelligence,you should know better. You behaved like a person who must feel that they are immune to attacks by nut cases. Ann you have made yourself semi famous in WI and Madison with your blog and your and Meade's presence at the protests.

If you insist on covering the protests and reporting on them on your blog and soliciting the often times very nasty comments of your readers, just be aware that you put yourself and those who accompany you there at risk. I don't agree with violence from either side, but I also think you are pushing your luck when you stick your video camera in the face of people you know nothing about.

As someone else said, unstable people are attracted to protests. I think you and Meade have been very much entertained by what has happened in Madison since February, but it's not a game.

Laika's Last Woof said...

Dustin said:
"It's going to be easy for some to roll their eyes at this."
Yeah, they're called "liberals." Saul Alinsky told them whatever they want to do is all right, and they've been taking his advice ever since.

Martin L. Shoemaker said:
"Expect a bunch of new commenters, especially a bunch of liberals who assume Prof. Althouse is a conservative."
Well, they say a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged.
Althouse was mugged by liberals. That would either make her an arch-conservative or a very ironic one.

@garage:
Lauren Valle was the aggressor. Her armed assault against Rand Paul was thwarted when his quick-thinking supporters subdued her with non-lethal force.
All decent people are thankful that despite Ms. Valle's best efforts Rand Paul escaped unharmed. The silver lining of this attack is that his supporters will be even more vigilant the next time something like this happens.
I suspect the same is true for Althouse and company. If there is a "next time" they'll be ready for you.

Seven Machos said...

a conservative blog -- You give the game away right here. So easily. It's sad. It's like you are standing on the baseline taking an Andy Roddick serve right to the vagina.

a smirk like grin

Interesting that you know Althouse's thoughts at the time well enough to call it a smirk. Also interesting that the word smirk keeps getting bandied about. It's not a particularly common word. At what hothouse did you find it?

Seven Machos said...

Saul Alinsky : Democrats :: Leo Strauss: Republicans

It's a silly thing to say. Give it up.

walter said...

"it's not a game."

All the more reason to seek prosecution of those who cross the real line. It's the sense of lawlessness that keeps me from being anywhere near these idiots. Why spare thugs the (legal) rod? It's what they count on.

Seven Machos said...

Walter -- Nobody was hurt. The cop was silly to say he could arrest everybody for the same reason you are silly to say he should have arrested anybody: police authority should be used judiciously and practically.

Incidentally, count the number of crimes you commit tomorrow. See how many times you should be arrested under your own system.

Marshal said...

Madison is a remarkably intolerant place. But since academic culture is the most intolerant in western civilization I suppose it shouldn't be surprising their Meccas reflect that.

walter said...

The question is whether there is grounds for arrest. If someone attempted to grab a cam out of someone's hands, perhaps a crime.

"count the number of crimes you commit tomorrow. See how many times you should be arrested under your own system."

Counting presumes at least one. On;t be necessary for me. And Sir Nacho?

Seven Machos said...

Counting presumes at least one

You won't go a mile over the speed limit? Roll through a stop sign? Fail to turn signal? Walk outside the crosswalk? The list goes on and on and on.

Okay, chief. Gotcha. But why are you using the name Walter, Jesus?

The question is whether there is grounds for arrest.

There's grounds for arrest all the time and forever. The issue is whether an arrest would be prudent or at all serving the public.

walter said...

BTW, I was mostly reacting to Ann's repeated mention of not wanting the thug arrested. Why take it off the table like that?

Seven Machos said...

Why take it off the table like that?

Lots and lots of reasons. You obviously are not a lawyer, Walter, as you have not learned about the parade of horribles and you don't seem to have a sense of fairness to counterbalance your raging sense of justice.

walter said...

Nacho, you really think there's no difference between the understood legality of going a few over posted is the same as manhandling somenes property? Get a grip.

walter said...

"The issue is whether an arrest would be prudent or at all serving the public."

Perhaps if a thug like that feared/faced prosecution for crossing the line, it would be crossed less often. Of course, if you feel deterrence is irrelevant...

Seven Machos said...

you really think there's no difference between the understood legality of going a few over posted is the same as manhandling somenes property?

If you aren't going to apply judiciousness and some practical sense, then crime is crime. There's no getting around this.

Why do you get to decide what is a crime worth prosecuting and what is not?

walter said...

"you don't seem to have a sense of fairness to counterbalance your raging sense of justice."

I hoe you're drunk posting.

Seven Machos said...

Perhaps if you, Walter, Jesus feared/faced prosecution for speeding and rolling through stop signs, you would not commit those crimes as often. Of course, if you feel deterrence is irrelevant...

Seven Machos said...

Walter -- I'm perfectly sober. Nobody is going to arrest anybody for what happened in that video.

Sometimes, the mere fact that the police show up is all that is necessary. Here is a good example.

walter said...

"Why do you get to decide what is a crime worth prosecuting and what is not?"

Just stop Nacho. You generally seem more sensible than this. By your logic, murder is just an extension of going 30 in a 25. No biggie.

Seven Machos said...

Walter -- Althouse herself said that, of course, she did not want anyone arrested.

You are failing to see that what happened in this situation is a lot closer to going 30 in a 25 than murder -- by, like, a factor of 100.

People fight all the time. Ask those very cops how many stupid little bar skirmishes they've had to deal with in the last year. My guess is 50 each. It's a Big 10 college town with a lot of drunk, undersexed men.

Now ask, out of those fights -- where noses were bloodied and bruises were made -- ask how many times anybody got arrested. Note how low the answer is.

Then, get over yourself.

walter said...

A stupid bar brawl is less involved than this situation. Get over YOURself. Ann could have let thig s go where they may..but she basically bent over to avoid any enforcement issue...while her son was told it was his responsibility to go away.

walter said...

thug learns that he can do what he wants, veen when on cam, as long as he flees before tubby gets there. That bugs me a helluva lot more than someone passing me in a 25. Oh...I'm just tooooo sensitive. The cops have bigger doughnuts to fry. Oh.. sorry to expend resources on trivial thnigs.

Seven Machos said...

A stupid bar brawl is less involved than this situation.

Dude, honestly. You have no idea what you are talking about. I would venture to wager thousands of dollars that entrants in the average bar fight know each other much better than the people in the video we have here.

walter said...

BTW, She's the one who yells "Police!". I don't yell that when someone passes me.

walter said...

"entrants in the average bar fight know each other much better than the people in the video we have here."

"Dude"....that is one of the reasons the situation is completely different!

Seven Machos said...

Walter -- In the video, does Althouse say or does Althouse not say that she does not want anyone arrested?

LifeoftheMind said...

It is my suspicion that lawyers are often reluctant to become participants or consumers, as opposed to practitioners, in the legal process. Aren't doctors exceptionally reluctant to become patients? It is unfortunate that Ms Althouse did not press charges but it need not be seen as a partisan decision.

It is best to engage as an observer as part of a team of three. Prior training on how to respond in various situations is needed. Left wing agitators and crowd Marshals often have such training. There are outreach efforts to minority groups and youth to provide similar training. We need organized efforts to teach all citizens what their Civil Rights are and how to act with hostile groups or authority. Ideally that training would be considered part of qualifying as a full citizen and would be part of a universal military training program.

It would have been nice if some friendly federal officer had been present and arrested the perps for violating Ms Althouse's Civil Rights.

Seven Machos said...

So, Walter, the police should be more inclined to arrest when people in fights know each other? Is that your argument?

Dude?

Peter said...

Y'all pardon me for bein' a pore dumb redneck who hasn't time to sort through every comment but isn't it usually a mistake to attack an established lawyer in front of not one, but two video cams?

Ann, please sue the little weasle until his grandchildren are still paying damages.

walter said...

Nachos..you are beyond hope.

walter said...

"isn't it usually a mistake to attack an established lawyer in front of not one, but two video cams?"
Someone gets it..........

Seven Machos said...

Walter -- I thought you wanted an arrest. Now you are just saying it was morally wrong and clinically stupid to attack Althouse under the circumstances?

We agree!

james conrad said...

LOL, DAMN! I retreat to the TV room to watch this years last golf major, the PGA, and on my return to the web find Althouse & family involved in a physical altercation with protesters? Gee Wiz, what in the hell is going on in Madison Wisc? I thought all you guys were supposed to be pacifist with the possible exception of Packer football fans.

BTW, Steve Stricker, a native of Madison, torched the course in the heat at Atlanta on thur and shot a 63. GO STEVE!

walter said...

I only agree that "it was morally wrong and clinically stupid to attack Althouse". But it was irresponsible for Althouse to blather on about not wanting the perp arrested. If there was grounds for arrest, arrest the perp. If you're not part of the solution, part of the problem. How, as a law prof, do you defend diminishing enforcement of the rule of law. Again..not a meaningless bar brawl.

walter said...

Golf! Woo hoo!

Seven Machos said...

You! A law prof! Defending diminishing enforcement of the rule of law! Disgusting!

Also, the bar brawls are obviously quite meaningful to the participants. Are their lives lesser than yours?

walter said...

Sigh...no...Althouse is the law prof.

"the bar brawls are obviously quite meaningful to the participants. Are their lives lesser than yours?'"

Actually? Yes.

Seven Machos said...

And then Walter missed one of the longest running jokes at Althouse, which was directed squarely, squarely at him.

But, Walter is also of a superior caste -- better than other humans.

Go Phils said...

I'm just glad you guys had cameras rolling. There's no telling what they might've done otherwise, being that angry.

I try not to judge a book by it's cover, BUT... it seems like the guy in gray may have a drinking problem. He doesn't appear to be drunk in the clip, which is actually his "problem". I've been around these types of people my whole life, so it's not hard for me to diagnose.

walter said...

Yah..the schizo Nacho/Macho said previously: Blogger Seven Machos said...

I'd go straight to jail to protect my Mom from assault and battery. Fuck the law at that point.
8/12/11 11:12 PM

Sorry if I missed the running blog "joke". When you subsequently suggest physically intimidating thugs are worthy of a legal pass a la incremental mph transgressions, I'll call you on it every time.

Seven Machos said...

Walter -- Yeah, dude. If somebody messed with my Mom, yeah, I'd be all over them until they stopped or I couldn't act. That's what I'd do. I would not worry about the legal ramifications. Why would I? Much transcends mere law.

You are confusing three things:

1. the right thing to do

2. the legal thing to do

3. the actual thing done

It's cute that you think that those things can somehow be made to align by government force.

In the case in the video, we have a guy who did something wrong and also something illegal to Althouse, but something that does not rise to the level of an arrest.

Jess said...

Not a single christian among you.

To those confused, the violent man in red was in the wrong. The fast-talker in the gray did in fact step between Ms. Althouse and the "assaulter", effectively disengaging the two of you. Self-defense is only a defense when other options fail. After Mr. Gray broke up the altercation, you, evidenced by your own camera, refuse to disengage. Methinks that might be a difficult question to answer on the stand.

That being said, you know what you're doing, and that's showing up to foment discontent so you can capture it and feed it to your thronging, violent masses. Sure, one man in your video was violent; dozens in your comments apparently are as well. If violence is wrong, decry it everywhere.

It would also be nice to get an answer to the questions Mr. Gray posed. How do you think Jesus would feel about money stripped from Teachers and public servants given to corporations?

I don't expect anything from this except to be tarred as a Dane Co. Crazy, or a radical Liberal, or a Socialist. The fact remains that none of you know anything about me or any other commentor on this site, yet feel justified in making nasty, disgusting insults, justified, apparently, by "the other side does it too."

This is bad politics, and the Althouses are simply trying to drum up a following by getting right in the middle and trying to piss people off. Congratulations, all; you're part of the problem.

walter said...

Ah..so it was illegal. What should be law enforcement's response?

But as I said before, why should a law prof with recorded evidence take any action off the table? Make your case and leave it to Joe Krispy Kreme to sort out.

edutcher said...

First, having looked at the video again, the part that struck me was the guy in the red shirt jamming that stupid horn in the camera lens. As everybody's mother said at least once, "He could have put her eye out".

Seriously.

Second, agree with Troop, Dustin, and walter on the "use it or lose it" aspect of the law. This is the problem they're having in Dear Old England right now. The animals know nothing will happen to them.

Ann's attitude is far more Christian (turn the other cheek) than the revolution theologian in the muscle shirt. It is praiseworthy (the creamy hippie love chick center coming out again), but I have to agree that, by not rendering unto Caesar (pressing charges), she may be making herself a target. She needs to assert her crusty Conservative coating.

They want to run her off the streets because she spreads the truth and we all know they have no compunctions about playing rough.

Be careful out there, Madame.

Seven Machos said...

How do you think Jesus would feel about money stripped from Teachers and public servants given to corporations?

Corporations like the public employee unions and the Democratic party> Like those kinds of corporations>

I don't expect anything from this except to be tarred as a Dane Co. Crazy, or a radical Liberal, or a Socialist.

That's good.

The fact remains that none of you know anything about me

I know all kinds of things about you now. My God, your treatise went on for days.

walter said...

Jess,
"you know what you're doing, and that's showing up to foment discontent "

Wouldn't that apply to the protesters?

Some protesters preach to the converted..some preach to convert. But when thugs manhandle those listening, thugs need to go down.

Seven Machos said...

You! A law prof! With recorded evidence yet taking any action off the table!

Jess said...

So, are you going to answer a question, or be incendiary, like the "liberals" you claim to hate so much?

More bad politics, driven by a man hiding behind anonymity.

Seven Machos said...

I'm sorry, Jess. Was there a question in that mountain of dreck?

Could you please repeat it?

walter said...

Skip it. Nachos/Machos has lost it.

Jess said...

@ Walter - Re: Fomenting discontent

If that's how you understand protest, that's a failure of your understanding of activism. Those people there singing show up every week to express discontent with the officials that govern their state.

The Althouses apparently show up to rile those people into doing admittedly dumb things. A thug for a thug. And seriously, the man in the gray shirt stepped in to stop the physical altercation right away. That's not exactly thuggish, IMO.

I'll leave this radical circle-jerk after this comment, but I want to make clear, your corporate masters, with their lies about "Socialism" and "distribution of wealth" are just using you to fight the other half of the middle class. They want the middle class gone, so there's nothing stopping them from putting us all in a slave class, and having us build widgets at $6 an hour. I know you're not going to listen, because fundamental belief only becomes stronger in the face of contradictory evidence. (That's also why I'm not presenting evidence. If any of you were open minded enough to want to know the whole store, there's hundreds of pages of theory, both economic and sociopolitical, available readily on the internet or your local library).

lt/dr (for Mucho, since he's not the best reader, apparently) The Rich are using you to fight their war on the middle class. I used to vote republican, then I saw the mess Bush allowed to happen, the criminals that perpetrated it, and the tightly organized propagandizing that keeps people like you in lock step against their fellow Americans. I hope you'll stop thumping that bible and read it a little, find out how ol' JC really wanted us to treat the poor and the selfless.

Seven Machos said...

I used to vote republican

Child, please.

Marshal said...

Jess says..."Sure, one man in your video was violent; dozens in your comments apparently are as well."

You use this word, violence. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It's also interesting that the thronging massses of leftists witnessed someone attempting theft, threatening a defenseless woman, then physically attacking her, yet no one intervened. Not one leftist present was motivated by morality or humanity.

So while leftists cannot be bothered to act to prevent actual violence, they're quite motivated to show up on blogs and pretend non-violence is violence in order to defend those using actual violence.

What despicable people.

Jess said...

@ SadoMachos - Seriously?

Nevermind the fact that you complained about "not finding a question" in one post after you DIRECTLY QUOTED ME ASKING A QUESTION.

You are the people our parents warned us about.

Jess said...

"It's also interesting that the thronging massses of leftists witnessed someone attempting theft, threatening a defenseless woman, then physically attacking her, yet no one intervened. Not one leftist present was motivated by morality or humanity. "

Did you not watch the video? Most of the people were completely ignoring Althouse, and it's terribly likely that none of them know this happened until the MacIver "News" group tweeted it to #p2 and #tcot. Note only Mr. Gray shirt and Mr. Red shirt, and for one small moment, well after the altercation is over, a woman in a red shirt, even care to interact with the Althouse group. If Ms. Althouse were truly afraid, she would have disengaged and moved well away from her "attackers" like any rational person. She didn't. After her "assault" she moves TOWARD her "assaulter" waving a finger in his face. Mr. Gray, steps BETWEEN Mr. Red and Ms. Althouse and says "I'll worry about him, you worry about yours." Looks like he broke it up, and that, if I'm sane (and one of us is, ProTip: Not You) that basically invalidates your entire argument.

Marshal said...

Jess says

"They want the middle class gone, so there's nothing stopping them from putting us all in a slave class, and having us build widgets at $6 an hour."

But WE'RE the radical circle jerk.

This last is right after she admonishes others for being un-christian. Doesn't she know how to keep the voices straight?

This one's a straight product of academia. Unaware of her own hypocrisy, spouting extreme nonsense which can only be believed by people so removed from life they have to have it described to them.

Easily the funniest comment to this post.

Sixty Grit said...

More theater of the absurd. I'd rather watch Ionesco.

Marshal said...

"I'll worry about him, you worry about yours."

Kind of defeats your theme he's a non-aligned bystander, doesn't it? You have to keep the voices straight.

jimspice said...

I actually woke up thinking this. Who on earth yells "police?" If you're in trouble, don't you yell "help?"

Jess said...

"This one's a straight product of academia."

Why you're all so readily duped; stop making fun of school, and maybe show up once in a while. Critical thinking is an asset no matter what ridiculousness you believe. Marshal has no ability to think critically, or any willingness to address facts presented, instead choosing to speak in broad generalizations, sticking to talking points.

The voices (read: logic and reason) are clear. People who stand in support of the modern republican party don't care for the teachings of Christ. The right exists to destroy the policies that we will all soon have to rely on for food and medicine, once the wealth finishes getting vacuumed to the tippy top of wall St, and WalMart finishes shutting down Main St.

On a personal, and probably ill-advised note, lick my testicles, Marshal. it'll be a nice change of pace for the corporate sack you're used to munching.

jimspice said...

"...cuts on my wrist..."

Pictures please.

Jess said...

You obviously dropped out of school, Marshal. Your reading comprehension skills are piss poor. I never once asserted that Mr. Gray was a "non-aligned bystander," and if I had, his intervention wouldn't have meant much as a counter to your assertion that no "leftist" moved to break up the altercation, now would it?

*waits breathlessly to see if Marshal cops to being either a drop-out, or a product of the academia he so despises.

walter said...

@Jess
"The Althouses apparently show up to rile those people into doing admittedly dumb things."

Ah..otherwise rational folk churned into thuggery.

"the man in the gray shirt stepped in to stop the physical altercation right away. "

Well..that thug is not the primary thug in question. (nice try). I'm not sure the guy in gray is a thug...just a leftist appropriating religion as it suits hm.

Marshal said...

"Why you're all so readily duped; stop making fun of school, and maybe show up once in a while."

Yeah, you write like a student. After you graduate you realize most learning comes afterward. Unless you join academia of course. Then you're stuck in a circle of ever amplified nonsense with no correctional feedback loop.

"The right exists to destroy the policies that we will all soon have to rely on for food and medicine, once the wealth finishes getting vacuumed to the tippy top of wall St, and WalMart finishes shutting down Main St."

Like this.

Marshal said...

"People who stand in support of the modern republican party don't care for the teachings of Christ."

This sounds remarkably like the nut in the video.

Jess said...

@ Walter - Mr. Red is wrong. Always was, if it seemed like I was defending him, I made a mistake. Violence is wrong. In all fairness, Ms. Althouse is wrong as well. She clearly identified the person most agitated by her presence and aimed her camera right in his face. As a private citizen, being at a protest or not, I would be agitated by that, especially if I knew that said person was just trying to dredge up red-meat for her base of blog followers.

No one ever claimed that every single protestor was a saintly personage, there are bad apples in every bunch. I'm sure that any rational republican supporter can browse this comment thread and find things to disagree with, and find things that they had wished were left unsaid by their side. For example, I think we can both agree that any person in these comments threatening physical violence is just as in the wrong as Mr. Red.

The only point I've been steadily trying to make is that Ms. Althouse showed up looking for a fight to prove a preconceived notion about the protestors. When only one caved, and another stepped in to stop the altercation, a whole gaggle of commentors leap on the train calling all protestors, leftists, and dane county residents "thugs." Thugs don't stop other thugs, they help. And your admission ("Not the thug in question") pretty much proves that point.

Regardless, I'd still like an answer to his question; if he's merely "appropriating" religion for his own ends, his premise should be easy to shoot down. What would Jesus think about taking from teachers and public servants to give the wealthy a tax break?

Marshal - Give it up, geezer, you're 0/50 in "Guess details about Jess". Go have a metamucil and watch some Hannity. He'll make it all better. Also might want to google "feedback loop."

Seven Machos said...

Hey, Jess, I thought you were leaving.

P.S.: I am far more educated than you are. For example, I know when people are fucking with me. And I am not humorously earnest. That stopped at college graduation at the latest.

walter said...

"As a private citizen, being at a protest or not"

Therein lies a large distinction in terms of dealing with a camera.

"The only point I've been steadily trying to make is that Ms. Althouse showed up looking for a fight"

By wielding a camera?

But framing is everything. you wrote "What would Jesus think about taking from teachers and public servants to give the wealthy a tax break?"

You think that an honest, thorough portrayal of the issues? Is that how you would present it to Jesus?

Paul Zrimsek said...

One way of knowing when you're dealing with a True Believer is his interest in branding others as fake believers.

Jess said...

@SudoMachocist - In what class did you learn how to identify "people fucking with you"? "Internet Hardcockery 101" or was it "How to backslide out of making as ass of yourself when you contradict yourself in public"?

Here's a great example of your prized "education" and the end of your "humorous earnestness"
http://poeticmissedconnections.blogspot.com/

Moron.

walter said...

How about asking teachers to subscribe to more Earthly health care plan so that more teachers could keep their jobs and student could retain teachers based on performance, not by union ordained seniority. Oh...Jesus might have a different view on that scenario...

Jess said...

@ Walter - Yes, I think it's accurate. Walker's administration takes benefits that were negotiated as a term of employment for public workers, including nurses and schoolteachers, and reduces them by legislative fiat in the same budget awarding $200M in tax cuts to big business.

"Framing is everything" indeed. Althouse absolutely showed up looking for a fight. Maybe not an altercation of the physical variety, but she went a protest, for pete's sake, a political fight already very much in progress. She showed up to get footage of "looney" protestors, how is that not looking for a fight? She wanted footage of protestors behaving badly, and she got it, mostly by putting a camera in an agitated man's face.

Do you think our mutually accredited "thug" would have flown off the handle being taped from ten or fifteen feet away, rather than within two?

@ Paul - That edge cuts both ways. The teachings of Christ as I understood them are based on love, compassion, charity and goodwill. Gutting social programs and welfare (read: charity, goodwill, compassion) to give ever larger tax breaks to not-really-job-creators (read: Money Changers) seems pretty counter to what I understand as the teachings of Christ. So far, the only counter I've received is one like yours: "You're crazy." "You're appropriating religion." Someone grow a sac and make a theological argument if I'm such a nut.

Jess said...

@ Walter - retaining teachers based on performance? How do you measure teacher performance? Did your parents blame any of your bad grades on your teacher?

Asking teachers to work for less than they already do is only going to make good, well-trained, experienced teachers leave the profession. Teachers negotiated shitty salaries for much better pensions and benefits as a term of employment. How come contracts only seem to matter when they pertain to lavish Wall St. bonuses, rather than the purveyors of the cornerstone of society? These teachers are highly trained professionals, many of them with multiple degrees, that are working for $40k a year! You make more than that managing a McDonalds, for pete's sake, and you have the gall to ask them to take LESS in the name of charity? I bet many of them would if that money was going to go directly into their schools and classrooms instead, but asking them to give it up to give handouts to corporations that are actively anti-people isn't goodwill, and it isn't charity, and that's not really debatable.

Jess said...

@ Walter - never mind the fact that you're totally ignoring the possibility that corporations and the wealthy give up their tax loopholes so that we can, instead of laying off teachers, HIRE MORE TEACHERS, and PROPERLY OUTFIT CLASSROOMS, and IMPLEMENT SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT ELIMINATE CHILDHOOD POVERTY, which, as anyone moderately versed in education reform should already know, is the largest driver in poor education results, far more so than any bureaucratic or institutional cause.

Seven Machos said...

Oh my God. Somebody looked at the poetry of Missed Connections! Awesome. Will there be an instalanche?

Marshal said...

"Moron."

Jess, you again forgot you're pretending to be Christian.

Keep the voices straight.

Jess said...

@ Marshal - big fucking difference between being Christian and understanding the onus of the religion.

0/51

walter said...

Jess,
OMG,
So unfair to ask a haircut of the chosen..even if those who pay the freight get dismembered.

Won't you "do it for the children"?

And further ONG! Althouse pointing a camera at a protester! OMG!!!!!

And of course, far better to increase the public sector feeding at the trough than to create an environment where the rest of society can engage in a more prosperous economy. THAT'S what Christ was all about.

walter said...

And yes...we don't spend nearly enough on education. That's the ticket...

Tacitus2 said...

Hard to tell via the internet, but these folks seem less like real protesters and more like some kind of re-enactors. You know, guys who show up on schedule with uniforms far better than the original participants and try to get into some kinda historical mood.

They should re-channel.

I suppose Revolutionary war is out, too Tea Party. Confeds also, not progressive. Bet they'd really like to be Matthew Broderick in Glory, Union progressive guy leading valiant oppressed types into battle.

But with the random bad hair.....Madison got any Klingon enactors?

Tacitus2
Detritus of Empire

Seven Machos said...

But, Jess, we can't eliminate child poverty. Jesus said the poor will always be with us.

Further, Jesus was a small business owner, so he voted Republican.

Further, it's over, pal. Your side lost, like 12 times. It's all just performance art at this point, but apparently not to be captured on film because the retarded brother in There's Something about Mary will bat your camera away.

Anyway, you crazy ex-Reaganite and reformed Cato Institute platinum member, what other gags are there?

traditionalguy said...

Althouse's point of view comes out of Proverbs 19:11..."A man's wisdom gives him patience. It is his glory to overlook an offense."

walter said...

Maybe it's more about avoiding the inconvenience of participating in legal action. Didn't enter the calculus when yelling "Police!!"

Seven Machos said...

Walter -- Plus the danger.

Jess said...

@ - Machos http://ohinternet.com/Trollface

@ Walter - re: Unfair - Yes. It is unfair to renegotiate the underpaid by legislative fiat when money is begin funneled to businesses who ARE NOT INVESTING IN WISCONSIN, NO MATTER WHAT MACIVER IS TELLING YOU. Supply side economics failed. Over, and over and over. Asking business owners to invest in capacity when demand doesn't fully utilize existing capacity is far crazier than Ms. Althouse, even. The only thing that creates jobs is demand. Giving tax breaks to corporations who will only sit on the windfall until the economy recovers is no way to end a recession, and only the liarconomists on Fox believe otherwise. Reinforce the middle class, enact fair tax policy, spend to stimulate the economy. That's how to make things better for everyone; not slashing the pay of public employees and convincing your cronies to demonize them. That's about as unChristian as you can get.

Maybe we don't spend enough on education; Maybe what we need is real reform, rather than more spending OR draconian cuts. But a line-item in a midnight shit-sandwich isn't education reform, no matter how much Scooter says it is.

At any rate, thanks for the reasoned discussion, Walt, even though I think you could stand to learn a thing or two reading the other side's playbook.

Nacho, Marshal, lick my nut sack.

Good night.

Marshal said...

Jess,

Now you're dropping F bombs? It's not even amusing any more.

Next time you're posing and you absolutely have to let your real voice out set up a new comment ID. Sure, enterprising people can tell. But not doing so just shows you aren't serious about your attempts to minimize violence when committed in support of leftist causes.

You don't want other activists thinking you weren't giving your best efforts do you? If they think you're slacking they might give tenure to someone a little more reliable. Someone who is willing to work through the details.

Clark said...

Bastards. You rock Professor. Keep it up.

Jay said...

I'm sorry to read this happened to you Ann, but what the hell is wrong in Madison?

If I would have seen this happen, that clown would have been hospitalized.

I guess "equal rights" has really killed off chivalry.

walter said...

"It is unfair to renegotiate the underpaid"

Wow...
Bad start there..and indicative of the ongoing tone deaf approach leading to further undoing of the public sector unionization that FDR presaged.my advice would be to accept the "defeat" and RUN with the tremendous benefits of Wisco civil service protections..you know what I'm talkin' bout. And the longer the protest, the more the average tax payer will know. It can only get worse for the naive public sector.

Jay said...

Jess said...

@ Walter - never mind the fact that you're totally ignoring the possibility that corporations and the wealthy give up their tax loopholes so that we can, instead of laying off teachers, HIRE MORE TEACHERS, and PROPERLY OUTFIT CLASSROOMS, and IMPLEMENT SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT ELIMINATE CHILDHOOD POVERTY,


Yeah Jess, because it isn't like we haven't spent trillions on eliminating childhood poverty or anything.

I mean, all we need is more money, right?

Oh, and there is no, zero correlation between greater education spending and student performance.

None.

PS: he U.S. spends the most in the world on education, an average of $91,700 per student in the nine years between the ages of 6 and 15.

You're a moron.

Jay said...

Supply side economics failed.

*GIGGLE*

21 million jobs created between December 1982 and June 1990.

You're still a moron.

Jay said...

spend to stimulate the economy. That's how to make things better for everyone

Yeah Jess, we've never tried that or anything.

You can't point to a single instance in the history of mankind where government spending "made things better" or created a single job.

Why, it is almost as if despite the real world evidence, you believe in things that aren't true.

Jay said...

Teachers negotiated shitty salaries for much better pensions and benefits as a term of employment.

Oh really?

Wisconsin is one of 41 states where public employees earn higher average pay and benefits than private workers in the same state

Oh really?

The average annual compensation for a Milwaukee Public Schools teacher will be $101,091 in 2011

Why Jess, it is almost as if despite the real world evidence, you believe in things that aren't true.

Jay said...

How do you think Jesus would feel about money stripped from Teachers and public servants given to corporations?

Well, the money isn't "given" to corporations in the first place.

But anyway, I really enjoy watching the "separation of church and state" left making public policy arguments in Jesus' name.

It is rather heart warming.

Why it is almost as if you're an incoherent hypocrite or something Jess.

Jay said...

These teachers are highly trained professionals, many of them with multiple degrees

"Highly trained"

Hysterical.

Hey, how are these "highly trained professionals" doing in making America more competitive in science in math education?

Oh, they're not?

Never mind.

You are a clown.

Charlie said...

Jess, you are right that "framing is everything." David R. Graham made the most cogent comment in the thread. Both gray and red guy are playing roles. Gray guy is the smart one, the professional--the rodeo clown in the real sense of the term, as someone dressing & playing the fool to set the framing but doing critically important work that someone who doesn't know what's really going on may even notice.

Remember when Uri Geller invited "experts" to examine his spoon-bending feats? The experts he accepted were metallurgists and physicists, brilliant people who happened to be experts in something other than what was really going on. They reasoned cognetly through the wrong frames, the ones they naturally brought to the event. James Randi pointed out that Geller never invited magicians to study his performance closely--experts in what was *really* going on.

Sluggh said...

Officer Calhoun's comments were dispiriting. So interjecting one's self into any defense-of-others environment, regardless of the context, leaves one open to a charge of public disorder, is what he seems to be saying.

Davod said...

Shades of the UK police. Don't protect, move away and call the police.

Jay said...

george said...

I live in the South. Any guy that attacked a woman in the presence of her son and husband would have been beaten down like the dog that he is. The cop would have patted us on the back and taken the perp to jail.

That is how it is done in a place where civilization still exists.


Yes.

And is anyone now wondering why so many people got beat up at the recent county fair?

Is everyone in WI a pansy or what?

singleton said...

I am shocked that you were attacked, but curious why you told the police you did not want the man arrested. If I was attacked as you were I would press charges. You made the definite point that you had evidence on your camera of the attack, but that you did not want the man arrested. Why did you call for the police? What did you expect them to do if the complainant said she had evidence of a crime that she did not want prosecuted?

AllenS said...

Seriously, what is the objective when you video-tape these people? Your reporting and video-taping these protests seems like such a waste of time.

Lincolntf said...

I love it when the hysterical Libs go all "Jesus-y" to defend the indefensible. Face it, Libs, you are protesting for one reason and one reason only: you reject the will of the voters. You will do anything, say anything, hurt anyone, to get your grasping little mitts on every bit of your neighbors' money as you can. All the rest of the speechifying, sing-a-longing and random thuggery are just symptoms. The disease is your ignorance of and contempt for the American way of life. The more we see what kind of lowlifes make up the bulk of the Madison protesters, the better.

Henry said...

Althouse, Chris, Meade -- I'm glad you came out of this all right. You acted impressively cool, refusing to be intimidated, and using the right amount of pushback on the attacker. Keep up the good work.

Jim Treacher said...

Garage Mahal advocates violence towards women because people he hates did so first. This is because he's a man of principle.

Omaha1 said...

Ann, I’m glad you weren’t hurt in this incident. The whole thing is disgusting but the most outrageous is that policeman threatening to throw Chris in jail for trying to protect you. Duty to retreat? This is ridiculous, of course your son has a right to defend his 60-year-old, diminutive mother from a physical assault or attempted robbery (of your camera).

Be very careful. The police are obviously on the side of the protesters and are signaling here that they WILL NOT PROTECT YOU from future attacks. It is basically open season on you and Meade now. Truly frightening to think that because your politics are “wrong” you have forfeited your right to safety in a public place.

One other thing, I would make sure that you have a trusted friend who will be able to bail you out if you are arrested for “disorderly conduct” in the future. Since now “disorderly conduct” is not loudly screaming about Jesus’ politics, or blowing horns in people’s faces, but rather standing quietly with a camera.

MadTownGuy said...

I think that documenting the lefty lunacy is a good thing - let them show their true colors and so be exposed. I would call that primary source reporting. Perhaps what is needed is an Army of Kodaks to reveal more fully the protesters' antics.

Paul Zrimsek said...

I'm probably the wrong person to be demanding a theological argument from, since I haven't been a Christian of any description, real or fake, for many years now. I seem to recall that the idea of turning Christ's ministry into a political movement was Judas', not Jesus'... but, like I said, it's been a while. I am quite sure that Jesus never said anything about how people with degrees ought to make more money. I'm also pretty sure they taught me that there's only one Judge of who is or isn't a real Christian-- and it ain't you, Jess.

Beta Rube said...

It's always a treat to see the same lefties who gasp with outrage when social conservatives use religious arguments decide that Jesus wants to redistribute wealth and use huge over priced bureaucracies to do it.

Omaha1 said...

This is making me so angry. The leftists saying that because you were “smirking” you pretty much had it coming. That you “shoved the camera in the man’s face” when clearly he approached you and put his hands on you. That your son could have gone to jail for merely putting his hand up to protect you. Totally outrageous!

And the whole “Jesus” thing. It is disgusting whenever anyone invokes religion to support their politics. Not only is it irrelevant it is blasphemous. The right and the left are both guilty of this. Christianity is about the relationship between an individual and the Lord, not about using the power of government to compel righteousness.

MeTooThenMail said...

@David R. Graham

We have a winner!

What you said.

"the talkative guy" is an operative: well- rehearsed, very well- scripted, and practiced at the loud, forceful, and effectively disarming rant.

It is interesting that his script called on shaming you as bad Christians for neglecting the poor and stealing from public union members - but he didn't know his target audience nor did it matter.

He could have yelled incessantly about prime numbers or the color of pencils - he succeeded in his (paid) role.

As for whether or not to press charges, that's obviously your business, and you are no doubt experienced and sophisticated enough (and have great self-knowledge) to make your own best choice.

Still, I come here to read about your adventures, and now misadventures, and it seems that you are not aware of the danger and violence around you.

Beware.

And be wary.

Just sayin'

lawblolly said...

"The right of self defense is removed by a corrupt system to ensure that they are always necessary.
" That is exactly what struck me about the whole situation and the Great London Looting of 2011: a subtle, creeping message to law-abiding citizens that only the government is permitted to protect you from criminals, and if you protect yourself when the government cannot (or will not) protect you, you are a criminal too. The interests of the law and the criminal are protected and everyone else will just have to try to stay off the radar.

Lincolntf said...

Oh I forgot to ask, did anyone ever confirm/disprove that "ol' gray shirt" is the guy with the criminal record?

TWM said...

"TWM...Thanks for pointing out that Ford Pintos were not in need of a law effectively denying civil suits to the occupants of only 27 rolling gasoline bombs sold as compact family cars.

If you are confident in your facts, then I dare you to ride down the road with your kids in the back seat of a Pinto."

Again 27 deaths - actual explosions really - out of 2 million Pintos built. Statistically no worse than other cars at the time.

I know it bothers you to hear that the whole things was much ado about nothing but it simply was. Alar in apples was too. So was DDT. As were the lawsuits over the recent Toyota nonsense. And so on and so on.

John in Cincinnati said...

From the vids, I don't see camera in face (his claim) or an "attack" (Ann's claim). What I take from the videos is the man with arm band was out of line and calling what's evident from videos an "attack" seems to me to be a stretch.

Henry said...

@TMW -- For years after that my Dad looked for used Pintos for sale as our second car. We owned a couple. You couldn't beat the price point.

Paddy O said...

Some thoughts...

First off, kudos to Chris. Absolutely the right thing to do. No matter the overall situation, someone gets aggressive with your mom, a son steps in.

Second, the stuff about Jesus. Everyone likes to bring Jesus into their cause. The religious right did it in the 80s and 90s, and the religious left is doing it now, in exactly the same way. The issues are different but it basically comes down to thinking Jesus is on the side of the government and the government's power to control morality. For the Right this morality tended towards controlling sexual issues. For the Left, this control of morality is about economic issues.

What's funny it's the exact same misguidedness. Weird that the Left, who is aghast at government involved in sexuality, thinks that people's moral decisions about money should be controlled by the government.

So, to the right and to the left I have this to say, as someone active in the church for all of my 36 years, with eleven years of advanced higher education in studying Scripture and theology.

Jesus is not on your side.

Jesus is on his own side.

It's pretty clear. We even have analogous situations to what he faced head on. In the first century there were pro-Roman folks who assimilated, there were pro-power structure leaders (sadducees), pro-religious rule folks (pharisees), anti-Roman folks (zealots). Basically each of these camps had at least one representative in the Twelve. Moreover, every time Jesus was asked about government issues, to get him to commit to a side, he refused to do it. Give what you owe to Rome, give what you owe to God is coupled with the demand that tax collectors give back the money they've overcharged.

Jesus had causes, pretty clearly, but he almost completely stayed away from the topic of the government's role. Yet both right and left insist that Jesus was a political agitator. Meanwhile, he got every side mad at him because he basically said everyone was missing the point.

Still true today. Most everyone talking about Jesus at rallies on the left or on the right is missing the point.

Jesus would have defended his mother, though. That much is certain.

Henry said...

@TMW -- I suppose that is a response to who you were responding too. My dad had no problem putting his kids in the back of a Ford Pinto. And we lived.

Henry said...

Jesus would have defended his mother, though. That much is certain.

Right on!

garage mahal said...

Hey Garage that particular lady (you called her a bitch) did deserve it.

So assaults on women are sometimes justified, more than likely what their political bent is. Precisely what I suspected.

J Allen said...

Chris,

I completely agree with Trooper York. You did the right thing protecting your Mom. Even if Ann had been a complete stranger, you did the right thing. If Meade had been in that situation, you did the right thing. The problem is that we are becoming a wussified society in which bad/stupid people’s intolerable actions are excused away while the appropriate actions of a good person are penalized and chastised.

Lincolntf said...

Poor garage, still clinging to the pathetic notion that he can distract from the real story by dragging out the same phony and tired parallels. There's really no point anymore, Garage, nobody believes you. Why don't you go down to the Capitol and hang around with Bowzer. You two have a remarkably similar patter, and probably matching prescriptions.

Steve Austin said...

I think the poster caplight above had it correct. This was the left's version of a religious revival. And they are wary of outsiders. Ann is the equivalent of a 20/20 reporter walking into a Jim and Tammy Faye service in the 80's to "expose things"

And that is why a couple protestors brought the "Jesus" discussion into it. They wanted to explain their side to the conservatives in a way the conservatives could understand it. So they figured if they went to "Jesus" they could communicate using the framework of their opponents.

Because to the left, government IS Jesus. It is their religion. And Scott Walker has walked into the temple known as the State Capitol and defiled it in their minds.

JAL said...

@11:24 last night - the resident lefty - The MoveOn lady was definitely up to mischief...

See? When the left does it is is "mischief."

Anyone else? Racism, assualt & battery, violence, libel, slander, lies ...

Don't you just love Garage Orwell?

garage mahal said...

Please go to the new post if you want to talk about the young man who overreacted to a perceived threat to Rand Paul and pushed his sneaker-cushioned toes against a woman's shoulder as she nestled her hard skull on the pillowy curb.

Hahahahahaha! Anyone guess who said that?

JAL said...

Geez.

Doesn't Althousia ever sleep?

I mean, Lem I can understand from time to time, but you partied all n'ght over here.

Paco Wové said...

"See? When the left does it is is 'mischief.'"

But was she smirking? Cause, you know, smirking justifies anything.

pst314 said...

Seven Machos 8/12/11 11:08 PM "If all that's true, why fight with her? Why pick a fight with someone who essentially buys ink by the barrel? Why let her narrate the story on a widely read internet platform? It's more evidence of instability."

Or maybe he WANTS people to see that if they displease the union thugs they will be assaulted.

M. Simon said...

Well at least that Palin woman didn't get elected.

pst314 said...

...not that instability is implausible. He certainly doesn't behave like a normal civilized human being, and many of the leftists I've known varied from eccentric to nuts.

mythusmage said...

Shorter Jess

"I'm not just a spin doctor, I play one on tv."

JAL said...

@ Apfelkuchen I think you and Meade have been very much entertained by what has happened in Madison since February, but it's not a game.

Tell us what it is from your perspective.

J said...

Sry to hear Miss A. but as Willard said in Apoc.Now: "don't get off the boat."

Schoolmarmies are a tough breed, especially when pickets are out.

JAL said...

@ 4:47 How do you think Jesus would feel about money stripped from Teachers and public servants given to corporations?

Two responses:

1. ???

2. You've misdiagnosed the problem.

2b. And the result.

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