March 27, 2011
Wisconsin Capitol Police very gently enforce the law against posting signs on the first floor.
Via Garage Mahal. Meade and I didn't witness this, but we were there the other day when activist Ben Masel couldn't get himself arrested.
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57 comments:
Jeez- the cop could not be nicer. I have to note the fact that this does nothing but instill disrespect authority. Which of course is what this whole thing has been about.
This is what a pussy officer looks like!
Uncle Saul is smiling...
Walker now arrests children (watch for the signs next weekend).
Not unlike the various cutthroat revolutionaries who wait until some kids get between them and US forces and then start a firefight.
Citing "freedom of speech" apparently is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Rightly so. It is abused and woefully misunderstood.
These are unfit parents, teaching their kids that they can defy the police and break any and all rules that they disagree with. Maybe the kids will grow up to be law abiding citizens in spite of their parents. I hope so.
Once again, bringing children to political rallies is a form of child abuse. They are essentially "human shields" for gutless adults. Since when does a child have any civil rights to speak of anyway? They are at the mercy of their parents until 18 or unless a child can gain emancipation from a court.
These are unfit parents, teaching their kids that they can defy the police and break any and all rules that they disagree with. Maybe the kids will grow up to be law abiding citizens in spite of their parents. I hope so.
I read the comments on the youtube video and it was disgusting. Like 99% support for this. I tried to explain that it's child abuse, but no headway was made. The bottom line is if there is no respect for the law on designated protest areas, then why can't you protest in front of someone's home? Really - is this what democracy looks like? Thuggery, pure and simple.
Citing "freedom of speech" apparently is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
I get the feeling that the swing voters are not with the protesting, law-breaking thugs. The recall elections are gonna be a BIG surprise as I see all GOP being retained and some fleebagger Dems turned out.
Freedom of speech = freedom to hang my crap all over public places.
I guess.
Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
Nice cop enforcing a bad rule.
I can't help but think, though, that it's the parents who should be holding the sign while their kids are off somewhere playing.
It will serve the parents right if those youngsters become conservatives at some point in their lives.
Wow...what kind of parents teach their kids to openly defy & disrespect a police officer? The cheering, high fives and 'atta boys' to the kids will only reinforce that disrespect. Can't wait to see the headlines these kids make in 10 years.
Wow, using your own children as pawns.
This is what stupidity looks like.
Wow! Troll City around here. For everyone posting: raise your (virtual) hand if you live here in Madison. The rest of you go hate on the people in your own city where maybe you have a clue what is actually going on.
Appalling.
I disagreed with Alex initially about the "child abuse".
After Watching the second video twice, it was clearly parental coercion to break the law.
I won't even go into how law now treats minor children as if they are independent of their parents. The last time I checked, the law recognizes that children are less culpable because they are children, and not capable of making fully informed adult descisions.
This statement by the parents is the equivalent of driving a Prius to combat global warming.
Neither is meaningful or attractive.
Mercurial Minnow-
make me
Yes, Alex, I agree. The recall elections are going to be a big surprise for some people. Mostly Fox viewers I'm guessing.
Make you raise your hand or make you go hate on people in your own downtown area?
Cute dog, though.
We'll gladly lend you our Walker for a few months if things are slow in Midland.
Appreciate that-
Seems we've had our own Walker for quite some time-
As Midland has been fiscally conservative, financially stable, and our teacher's grateful.
I felt bad for the cop, he was nearly on his knees begging the parents to please go to the first floor with their kids and sign.
Did the mother say she was an elected official? I listened 3 times, but couldn't quite catch it, or her name.
I wonder how old the boys will be when they use the "freedom of speech" justification on their parents....will Dad agree they can call Mom an "ass" when she doesn't let them take her car?
Lawyer question: are the parents correct in saying the Constitution trumps Administrative code?
Could that police officer been any less deferential? "I'm going to ask you please..." There is a protest area for a reason. (Y'all don't get to yell FIRE! in a crowded theater, even if there is a fire. Students at school, because their class mates are there under the force of law, don't get to say anything they want. In fact, some speech will garner the speaker a law suit, or a punch in the mouth.) People are not having their right to protest removed.
Since the parents are not minors, we should see their names in print. It will be interesting to see some follow up on this: what were the parents names, and were they actually charged, or once they were walked away were they let out the backdoor. Wink, wink. So the parents were turning the decision over to their children? No wonder we have some of the problems we have.
To echo others: that smacked of child abuse, and manipulation.
That is "shameless manipulation."
"It will serve the parents right if those youngsters become conservatives at some point in their lives."
LOL @vnjagvet!
Gail:
According to SCOTUS, reasonably restricting the time, place and manner of demonstrations does not infringe on the right to free speech under the US Constitutional so long as the restrictions are content-neutral.
The administrative rule in question seems to be a reasonable, content-neutral restriction on place.
Blogger vnjagvet said...
Thank you for the explanation. I'm thinking if the parents do get a citation it will be all over the lib press.
Those kids had no clue what they were doing. Pretty pathetic. I doubt that it will garner much sympathy anyway, especially since the cop didn't go Rodney King on the parents.
Any bets on that being a show, and the parents walking without a citation? The cop will apologize because he did what he had to do when the cameras were rolling. Once off to the side, the ticket will disappear.
That woman admitted to being an elected official: so she loses her amateur status. Don't try this at home kids! She's a professional. Don't count on the kindly cop tossing your ticket.
One of the banes of my teaching experience were my teaching colleagues. They would, individually, decide that some rules really weren't reasonable and they wouldn't enforce the rules. Of course, they didn't have a chat about this, so Ms. A didn't enforce this rule, while Mr. B didn't enforce that rule and Department X didn't enforce this other rule. When somebody else did enforce those rules, the push back was "Why are you being a jeck? Nobody else enforces that rule?"
Why should I have to live in Madison to comment? What's the logic in that?
@ Gail: "Did the mother say she was an elected official? I listened 3 times, but couldn't quite catch it, or her name."
Here she is:
Melissa Sargent, District 18 Supervisor, Dane County Board
And haven't we seen this guy before?
Brett Hulsey, District 4 Supervisor
You Althouse Hillbillies can't figure out that they are making a live case that can then be challenged in court? Boy, you guys are idiots.
What gave you that idea, Jay. Want to take bets on the ultimate outcome of the case?
Jeez. Wisconsin capital building cops are punks. No wonder this outfit got over run by the mob time after time.
Alex says:
"Why should I have to live in Madison to comment? What's the logic in that?"
I've lived in Madison for several years now, and it is very accurately portrayed by Althouse and Meade on this blog.
This city is a God-forsaken bastion of radical liberal stupidity, hatred, and Chicago style corruption. These people alienate and attack anyone who doesn't believe Obama is the greatest intellectual and president ever, who drives anything bigger than a Prius, who has more than two kids, and who feels these protests are a bunch of utter bullshit.
A significant number of Madison parents live in liberal utopian la-la land, based on my observations here in Madison.
Most probably teach their kids about collective bargaining, hegemony, hybridity, and other victimologist discourse before teaching them how to tie their shoe.
During my college days, I worked three summers at a camp for emotionally disturbed kids. At times, a kid would have to sit down and be quiet for 5 minutes to regain control of himself when he was acting out. Their most frequent rejoinder was, "This is a free country. I can do what I want." Apparently most of those kids are now parents in Wisconsin.
I agree with Alex. What those parent did was abusive. Those kids cannot comprehend the overall scheme of what's going on. And, the parents have no idea what the Constitution really says, just what they want it to say. They need to grow up, become adults themselves and become parents in the real sense, not just psychically.
What a bunch of losers. All of the participants. The cop was good to be polite, but he went way too far.
I'm not sure why these idiots think an administrative code is unenforceable.
The parents reminded me of the people a few years back who would slap a "Baby on Board" sign on their car and then drive like maniacs.
And, yes, I did get that the parents were attempting to create a live case. After all, how better to teach your children what is truly important in life than to make a scene demanding to show a sign on the second floor of a building when you have been repeatedly been invited to do so to your hearts content on the first floor?
Far more important than, say, taking your kids to a soup kitchen or food pantry to help stock shelves or to a park to clean up the landscape .......
The real kicker is that those kids do not have unlimited rights that are being claimed for them. If they try the same stunt in school, they will find out that the courts have puts ome limits on those rights in the school setting.
And did anyone else notice the guy nearby who claimed to be a lawyer and started giving advice to the kids? Did he just assume a lawyer-client relationship?
Well, I guess doctors are passing out notes, now lawyers can start passing out free legal services and be exposed to liability too.
2010 Wisconsin Code
Chapter 948. Crimes against children.
948.40 Contributing to the delinquency of a child.
948.40(1)
(1) No person may intentionally encourage or contribute to the delinquency of a child. This subsection includes intentionally encouraging or contributing to an act by a child under the age of 10 which would be a delinquent act if committed by a child 10 years of age or older.
948.40(2)
(2) No person responsible for the child's welfare may, by disregard of the welfare of the child, contribute to the delinquency of the child. This subsection includes disregard that contributes to an act by a child under the age of 10 that would be a delinquent act if committed by a child 10 years of age or older.
948.40(3)
(3) Under this section, a person encourages or contributes to the delinquency of a child although the child does not actually become delinquent if the natural and probable consequences of the person's actions or failure to take action would be to cause the child to become delinquent.
948.40(4)
(4) A person who violates this section is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor, except:
948.40(4)(a)
(a) If death is a consequence, the person is guilty of a Class D felony; or
948.40(4)(b)
(b) If the child's act which is encouraged or contributed to is a violation of a state or federal criminal law which is punishable as a felony, the person is guilty of a Class H felony.
I live in NYC where cops are not famous for their deferential techniques. I had no idea that cops could be this gentle in enforcing the law. That was an exceptionally cute toddler the mother was holding. Even the Libyan police probably have difficulty going all bad ass when a mother is holding a cute baby....Anyway, the people of Madison generally look quite pleasant and civilized. What better place for a civics lesson than in the rotunda of the state capitol. If only real life were like this.
On a related note: Is Hulsey a state rep and a county commissioner? The post about Melissa Sargent seemed to indict that this was the case. That form of double dipping is just wrong.
Is Hulsey a state rep and a county commissioner? The post about Melissa Sargent seemed to indict that this was the case. That form of double dipping is just wrong.
He is only a State Rep. He's a former county commissioner.
>>These are unfit parents, teaching their kids that they can defy the police and break any and all rules that they disagree with. Maybe the kids will grow up to be law abiding citizens in spite of their parents. I hope so.<<
Thank You!
You said exactly what I would have said.
When will PARENTS step up and BE PARENTS?
NO means NO. I hope the fine is 750.00.
If they can't pay... then 24 hours of community service. For all of them.
Sorry to be so late to the discussion..
But this reminds me of the Father Phelps issue.
You don't have to agree with Father Phelps to understand that they obey the rules of engagement at every site they they appear to do their thing.
As hateful and disturbing as Phelps' 'freedom of speech' is to many of us, they seem to 'get' that complying with the rules... to the 'T'... only strengthens their message and allows it to live.
That NOT complying would give the various sites a reason to shut them down and therefore kill their message from reaching whomever.
The Message is more important than self serving Pride.
These people, and the other complainers of Constitutional Rights, blah, blah, blah, lack the true conviction of their message.
This is why they will fail. The rules will cancel their voice out because they're too stupid to follow them.
I really hope the fine is considerable.
The father of these children is chief of staff for one of the fleebaggers.
I am sure that the "don't tase me bro" guy was raised in this manner.
The father of these children is chief of staff for one of the fleebaggers.
So, essentially they're being raised to be spoiled, elitist brats who think they're above the laws and rules that the little people have to follow.
Would not the appropriate action for the Police Officer be to address the parents. Addressing the kids might be a good civics lesson but that is not the job of the Police.
Unbelievable! Charles I couldn't disagree with you more. This is what a decent person looks like when dealing with children who are being used by their parents.
"Lawyer question: are the parents correct in saying the Constitution trumps Administrative code?"
Yes. The Administrative Code is a statute, and all statutes have to be constitutional.
But what the parent said is true only as a concept. The question is whether the limitation of placement of signs is unconstitutional.
As applied in the Madison capitol building, it almost surely is not.
The spookiest aspect of this whole thing is that those parents appear to be multiplying. If all three children are theirs, this does not bode well for humanity.
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