March 7, 2011

"The leader of Senate Democrats hiding out in Illinois is seeking a face-to-face meeting with Gov. Scott Walker and the Senate GOP leader."

"Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) said in a letter sent out Monday that he wants to meet with Republicans 'near the Wisconsin-Illinois border to formally resume serious discussions' on Walker's budget repair bill."

Oh, come on! That's absurd. Walker is supposed to make a trip to the border, maybe stand toe-to-toe with Miller with the Wisconsin-Illinois border between the 2 men?! All in the name of "serious discussion"? You need to get serious!
"I assure you that Democratic state senators, despite our differences and the vigorous debate we have had, remain ready and willing to find a reasonable compromise," Miller said in the letter.
I cannot understand why the Democratic senators should get more because of the way they've behaved. What kind of an example will that set for the future? No one will accept the outcome of an election anymore. You don't like what happened? Run away, storm the statehouse, make a cacophony of drum-beating and chants for weeks on end until you get your way. One of the chants has been "This is what democracy looks like." Is that what we want democracy to look like in the future? No one ever accepts a loss? Instead of working toward the next election, you use any strategy you can think of to prevent the exercise of power by the representatives the people have chosen to run the government?
The Wall Street Journal spurred hopes of compromise Sunday with a story citing Miller and saying the Democrats would be back "soon." But that same night Democrats knocked that down, saying that they hoped to return soon but that there was still no development to make that happen.
Something kept me from linking to that WSJ piece. That's another thing I'd like to avoid encouraging. Websites getting tons of traffic with premature news scoops. I'd like the WSJ to explain why it did that. It shouldn't want to look like a link whore.

I'd also like more inside reporting about those 14 Democratic senators. If only one of them goes back, the Republicans get their quorum and the whole enterprise collapses. How are they maintaining discipline? My state senator is Fred Risser, and that man is 83 years old. It bothers me to think of such an old man held hostage to politics in some motel in Illinois. Another of the 14 is Julie Lassa, who's 6 months pregnant and has 2 little kids back in Wisconsin. There must be a hard core within the 14 who are keeping the rest in line. What are they saying to Julie and Fred? Assuming they're not the hard core. Imagine being 6 months pregnant and not having your husband to comfort you, to know he's at home taking care of the children you miss? And what is it all for? Keeping the winners of the last election from voting! And in the end you'll have to go back. It's only a question of when.

What was their plan? They fled together, and perhaps at that point, all 14 thought it made sense to slow things down so that the protests could play out and Wisconsinites could give more thought to the GOP proposal. Lengthening the time line, they might argue, served a democracy interest. But what was the exit strategy? We've had the protest. The bill has been examined and discussed. What is democratic about preventing the vote now?

I suppose the "fleebaggers" would like to say that current public opinion polls ought to replace the results of the last election. Is that "what democracy looks like" in your version of American representative democracy? Only a Democrat with very short-term vision could say yes.

151 comments:

peter hoh said...

Their point's been made. At this point, I think they should get back to Madison.

johnvert said...

The losers in Illinois need to come to their taxpayer funded offices in Madison to conduct business. There is no other way.

James said...

I just heard one of the fleebaggers say on Don Wade & Roma show (WLS 890 Chicago) that they will be returning soon.

Seems to be a split in the camp and the extremists like Lena Taylor and Chris "he Thief" Larson are holding the others hostage.

Dad29 said...

Charlie Sykes just interviewed Walker who said "NO" when Sykes asked if he would meet with the FleeBags at the border.

No conditionals, no crabwalks.

Just "NO."

rick said...

This is hilarious. Reminds one of a prisoner exchange at a border crossing. Checkpoint Charlie?

edutcher said...

From what I understand, Ann's right about a hard core making the others stay - how we can only imagine.

From what I read (somewhere), about half would come home if given their druthers. At this point, they're just being derelict in their duties giving the Republicans a free rein to implement any legislation they want.

Union issue notwithstanding, I don't doubt some Democrat voters are getting very impatient with being unrepresented.

Headless Blogger said...

Walker, Wisconsin Governor, does not negotiate with terrorists, hostage takers, or FIB Senators.

Pastafarian said...

When my children throw a tantrum, it usually ends with fitful sobbing into a pillow.

This "meet at the border" thing sounds like a last wail of sorrow by the petulant children.

Comrade X said...

sure is going to be easy to derail tax hikes from now on.

WineSlob said...

The Absconders continue to Dither
The Governor beckons them Hither
Their Cause is a Joke
A Womp-Pig in a Poke
On the Vine does their Influence Wither.

AllenS said...

Walker needs to take up the offer. Once Walker is standing in front of Miller, with the border between them, he could reach over the invisible line, grab Miller by the throat, drag him back to Wisconsin, and kick the absolute fuck out of him.

Windbag said...

It doesn't bother me in the least whatever inconveniences those two (or any of the others) have willfully brought upon themselves. Choices.

johnvert said...

These delusional morons actually think they have the upper hand.

rick said...

From the article 'he wants to meet with Republicans "near the Wisconsin-Illinois border to formally resume serious discussions" '

They have a place for that - it's called the capital.

I've heard it is real nice, even made of marble.

Julius said...

Obviously there is only one way to get answers:

SEND MEADE TO GO FIND THE 14!

And interview them on Meade-vision...

garage mahal said...

How dare they ask his Majesty for a face to face meeting! Come to my Palace!

Be here by 4:00 today....or .....else!

Richard Dolan said...

There was a time when labor was famous for in-your-face tactics -- the Dunne brothers in Minnesota, for example. Even in California, the nurses union went after the Terminator with a vengence, never shrinking from a public fight. In Wisconsin and Indiana, the new thing is to run away and hide.

Not progress and not exactly progressive either. I think they will come to regret this tactic when the political pendulum swings the other way and it is used against them.

rick said...

@Allen I like it.

Or he do what you see at the end-of-game handshake at an SEC football game. Take two of the biggest troopers with him to the meeting and jerk him back across the border. While maintaining proper foot position, of course. Meade could film it.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


How dare they ask his Majesty for a face to face meeting! Come to my Palace!

Be here by 4:00 today....or .....else!



I thought it was a CAPITOL, and that the Fleebaggers had been ELECTED to do work there…..

Highlander said...

Anything less than unconditional surrender by the "fleebaggers" represents a loss of national implications - not only with respect to the corrupt union/Democrat Cosa Nostra, but for the legislative process itself. The time and place for negotiation was during the course of the legislative process - within the confines of the state capitol. Not in some coffee shop along the Wisconsin-Illinois border. It must not happen!

Mark81150 said...

The message democrats have sent is, elections don't matter. Only what they want does, and they will do anything to get their way in the future as well. So if the idea is it's only a democracy if the left has absolute control till the end of time, no matter what the public votes..

Why even have elections.. They lose the Governorship, just hold the streets hostage and demand to much somber postuering on MSNBC that you'll stay till the "dictater" (read democratically elected opponent) resigns in disgrace and we hold a special election to allow the "people" to have their say.

and if they loose again,..

rinse, and repeat as before, till they get the outcome they like.

The modern DNC seems less like a political party than a petty thugacracy demanding a one party state where nobody but they ever hold power.

They can't see that they are destroying the trust half the nation has in even holding elections, if they are simply going to riot untile they get the seat back when they loose?

Democracy only works if we all agree on the rules. If they simply toss them, change them, or ignore them as it benefits them..

Where the Hell did my country go?

James said...

WLS just replayed the audio clip and it was Bob Jauch who said that they will be returning to Madison "this week."

Meade said...

"This "meet at the border" thing sounds like a last wail of sorrow by the petulant children."

YOU ARE THE WORST GOVERNOR IN THE WORLD!!!11!!!1!11. [slams bedroom door] I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!11!

[time passes...]

[...]

[...]

[...]

[door opens] [in soft sweetened voice]: Daaady? Could I get a ride over to Debbie's house? Please? We're supposed to finish our group project that's due tomorrow in Mrs. Union's class. Please, Dad?

Lincolntf said...

This "invitation" is the official final turning point into the land of Absurdia. Please shut up now, Dems.

The Drill SGT said...

and kick the absolute fuck out of him.

Spoken like a lad who spent too much of his youth in Fayetteville Dives

:)

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

The time to return home was the first day. Make your point, get lots of attention, get some people thinking your way, then go home.

But instead they're trying to wait things out, hoping that garage mahal is right and this is a disaster for Governor Walker. But they don't seem to realize: he has zero to lose here. Zero.

I know garage won't get this, but it's a fact. In poker terms, Governor Walker is all in. Either he wins this hand, or his term as governor is over. Period. He will have zero relevance if he loses here. So what if polls show him at 43% support? 43 > 0.

The unions, in a similar way, are all in -- not just in Wisconsin, but in every state in the land. If they give up after making this such a visible issue and expending so much of their time and money on it, other governments will see them as a paper tiger. They can't afford to lose here, either.

But the Wisconsin 14? They're not all in, certainly not all of them. Some of them are in seats so safe, they could backstab the unions and still get elected. They won't, because they're firmly on the side of the unions; but they could get away with it.

Others are in seats so close, they might win more than they would lose by standing up to the unions.

If one of the waverers can find a way to return and save face in the process, it's all over. And this is starting to approach the Prisoner's Dilemma territory: if you think the senator next to you might bolt, maybe you'll benefit by bolting first. (In a true Prisoner's Dilemma, of course, no one can see what the other prisoner is doing.)

So the 14 need nerve. They need discipline. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the leaders are keeping very close tabs on the others, checking in "to keep your spirits up, see if you need anything" on a regular basis.

J said...

Teabuggers seem more....mormonic with their every stunt.


people who belong to the LDS cult should not be allowed in politics---links oder rechts.


Problem solved

Paco Wové said...

"YOU ARE THE WORST GOVERNOR IN THE WORLD!!!11!!!1!11. [slams bedroom door] I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!11!"

Brilliant Garage impression there, Meade.

DADvocate said...

find a reasonable compromise

Considering the Democrats actions so far, I doubt it. It would be a sign of weakness and foolish for Walker to meet them any where but in Madison.

Paddy O said...

"SEND MEADE TO GO FIND THE 14!"


A New Media Series: "Finding the Fourteen"

I kinda like this idea.

It'd be a Meadementary.

Clairvius Narcisse said...

this tactic has never worked in the past. it won't work this time.

J said...

Is Mrs Meade ...mormonic?

Nearly sounds like it (j-k, M)

DADvocate said...

people who belong to the LDS cult should not be allowed in politics

The religious bigotry arises.

rhhardin said...

The thing about opinion polls is that they're not votes.

Anything you say in a poll can be changed with the wind, and you give it zero commitment.

It's not a vote. A vote has a blind moment of finality when you cast it. It's your vote forever, owing to exactly an inexplicable decision moment.

A moment of madness that is not present in opinion poll responses.

Which is why we use votes and not polls.

It's not a matter of deciding to use polls instead. They're an entirely different thing. Nobody owns any opinion in a poll.

former law student said...

No one will accept the outcome of an election anymore.

Why don't the Wisconsin Democratic Senators simply fall in line behind Walker the way Congressional Republicans fell in line behind Obama?

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)






I see an incoherent insult troll has rolled in, best to ignore it and it’s pathetic maunderings. I went to web page once, and the fact is, as someone else pointed out, it HAS NOT TRAFFIC…IF the Insult Troll didn’t come here and get some acknowledgement of its own existence, it would be a truly sad creature indeed….That having been said, I’d just “Ignore” the beastie and move on.

Widmerpool said...

Your post makes no sense FLS. Congressional Republicans showed up and voted no.

The Crack Emcee said...

The Democrats have gone totally gangsta.

Running to Chicago was the tip-off.

Hagar said...

Any communication should be between the Governor and the Senate assembled.

This is ridiculous and makes the Democratic Party of the United States, not just Wisconsin, look not only wrong, but also totally inept.

And I think the "hard core" that is applying the pressure may well reside elsewhere than that Motel 6 in Chicago.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Why don't the Wisconsin Democratic Senators simply fall in line behind Walker the way Congressional Republicans fell in line behind Obama?

When did the Senate Republicans flee the chamber to deny a quorum? I must have missed that. I guess they should have fled after January 2009, when the “Ione” was inaugurated. Sure he’d won the election and increased his party’s representation in BOTH chambers, but the Republicans should have left the city, trying to deny a quorum to nullify the election their opponents had secured.

Paddy O said...

"Why don't the Wisconsin Democratic Senators simply fall in line behind Walker the way Congressional Republicans fell in line behind Obama?"

I think this is a good idea. Since Obama passed Obamacare, Walker gets to pass his legislation.

Almost Ali said...

Just another timely reminder that we are a country of men, not laws.

J said...

12: 12


the shades of Ben Franklin and Jefferson agree with that, chump--even if the Mitt cult doesn't.

J said...

12:16

fuck u satanist.

the end of the conversation with you, crypto.

traditionalguy said...

Don't meet them! They are setting up a story that Walker is abandoning his supporters. Tell them he will met them at the Capitol where legitimate business is done.

garage mahal said...

I know garage won't get this, but it's a fact. In poker terms, Governor Walker is all in. Either he wins this hand, or his term as governor is over. Period. He will have zero relevance if he loses here. So what if polls show him at 43% support? 43 > 0.

You're not here, Walker is pure poison in this state. And 14 of 19 districts the current Republican senators under recall went for Obama. My guess is the defections start this week.

And this should be interesting Farmer thugs! No doubt New Meadia won't cover it so I wouldn't look for it here..

It's funny watching all the comments talking about something that is the opposite of what is actually happening. Wishful thinking, as they say.

Pogo said...

They could call themselves The Chicago Seven ...times 2.

Their notoriety will I suspect last a lunchtime.

edutcher said...

Meade said...

"This "meet at the border" thing sounds like a last wail of sorrow by the petulant children."

YOU ARE THE WORST GOVERNOR IN THE WORLD!!!11!!!1!11. [slams bedroom door] I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!11!

[time passes...]

[...]

[...]

[...]

[door opens] [in soft sweetened voice]: Daaady? Could I get a ride over to Debbie's house? Please? We're supposed to finish our group project that's due tomorrow in Mrs. Union's class. Please, Dad?


So, does Meade agree with The Blonde that she rather deal with 4 or 5 boys than 1 girl?

PS That's Mormonic, with an uppercase em, for those of us who are KosKids. And people who use lowercase only show themselves to be moronic.

Chip Ahoy said...

I am deeply concerned for the situation here and for the wellbeing of all those involved. Hang on, I'm getting an error alert and told to refer to this. Oops, I guess that's a lie then.

J said...

No one's listening to your shofar medley, Crypto.

Maybe take it to Rahm.com

Heh heh .

Thorley Winston said...

Question – if the Senate can fine each of the fourteen Senators for every day that they’ve fled the State, could they also cancel their taxpayer-funded health benefits?

former law student said...

from ACSLAW.org: a group of liberal law professors, on Senate Republican obstructionism:

Ezra Klein reports in The Washington Post that every Senate Democrat returning in January has signed a letter calling for filibuster reform - "not just the young senators like Jeff Merkley and Tom Udall and Michael Bennett, but the older veterans like Barbara Mikulski and Dianne Feinstein and Carl Levin." Klein notes:

Their unity stems from an unlikely source: Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who has mounted more filibusters in the past two years than occurred in the '50s and '60s combined. Uncontroversial bills like an extension of unemployment benefits that passed 97-0 and food-safety legislation that passed with 73 votes frequently faced multiple filibusters and months of delay. The minority has been so relentless and indiscriminate in deploying the once-rare failsafe that the majority has finally decided to do something about it.

cboygan said...

Sen. Miller says that the senators "remain ready and willing to find a reasonable compromise." He doesn't understand that the Democrats lost the majority in the election last November, going from 18-15 to 14-19. With 19 votes, the Republicans don't have to compromise.

The ultimate compromise of a free society is that the majority must face an election every two years. If the electorate doesn't like what Walker and the Republicans are doing, they can throw them out. When the Democrats flee the state, a tactic never before used in 150 years of statehood, they are not only devaluing the results of the last election, but they are diminishing the value of future elections.

former law student said...

Your post makes no sense FLS. Congressional Republicans showed up and voted no.

Minority used parliamentary rules to block the express wishes of the voters. Except no one has been able to dig up any evidence that Walker vowed to limit the collective bargaining rights of public employees, while everyone was on notice that Obama wanted universal health care, with a public option, and that Obama wanted to roll back tax cuts for the highest earning Americans, etc. etc.

george said...

Walker should have just passed the non-fiscal parts of his plan in their absence. He should have also passed everything else on his agenda that he could legally pass. That was the only proper response to such petulance. Maybe you wait a day or two but you don't reward children for holding their breath and stomping their feet. It only encourages such intransigence in the future. How are these senators ever going to grow up and be responsible adults if we don't raise them properly?

Also, any sympathy given to the old dude or the pregnant lady is completely misplaced. They are adults and can make their own decisions. If you reach their ages and can't resist peer pressure then you are a lost cause and there will be untold suffering in your life because of your lack of spine. And guess what? You will deserve every bit of it.

LawGirl said...

I'm not sure what FLS's point is regarding filibuster. You do realize that the rules of the Wisconsin Legislature do not recognize this procedure, right?

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Minority used parliamentary rules to block the express wishes of the voters.

So when was ObamaCare wildly popular and the Republicans thwarted the “will of the People?”

Aridog said...

Comrade X said...sure is going to be easy to derail tax hikes from now on.

Damn right! It's the "new democracy" doncha know. Elections no longer matter, assemblies of representatives don't count ... when an elected majority doesn't agree with you, bail out and hide! Then have a mob protest. $60 to $90+ thousand a year poor folk need representing .. damn any elections!

Yeah, this is gonna work....

shoutingthomas said...

Except no one has been able to dig up any evidence that Walker vowed to limit the collective bargaining rights of public employees...

fls, will you stop this bullshit?

The elected Wisconsin assembly and governor can vote on whatever they please.

They are not obliged to go back to the voters until the next election.

This is such childish bullshit you're peddling.

Mike said...

"So when was ObamaCare wildly popular and the Republicans thwarted the “will of the People?”"

Sorry, I missed the part where limiting the collective bargaining rights in WI was the will of the people. This state is overwhelmingly against it (opposition varies from 52-65% in all polls). You need to work on your arguments. In all the polls, the minimum difference in opposition and support is 10%.

patrick said...

The idea that the street can reverse the decisions of the ballot box has been playing out for many years in French politics. It has not served them well and it is not a practice we should copy.

Hagar said...

fls,
You are beginning to sound like Garage. "Express will of the people?" As devined by Ezra
Klein and a CBS/AP poll?

If anything, "the express will of the people" manifested itself at the election last Nov., which does not bear out your contention. Quite to the contrary!

Paddy O said...

"They are not obliged to go back to the voters until the next election."

Which really makes me think that what is really at stake is the whole idea of the legislature.

If all that matters is polls and what people want in any given moment, then why even have a legislature? I'm serious.

If the established model of representation is no longer suitable, lets just abolish it and give everyone button to push to vote on a governors legislative suggestions.

I just don't get how, in any way, what the democratic senators are doing justifies the continued existence of their role in government. If it's all about what the people really want, then we need a system that answers that question quickly.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)




My point is, here the Will of the People MUST be obeyed, WI polling, and Walker is WRONG…but last year Obama Care was ABSOLUTELY necessary, and the Public be D@mned, now which is it? Polling matters or ELECTIONS matter…it can’t be BOTH, choose one. Either Obama Care was wrong and the Republicans were RIGHT to oppose it (polling) OR Walker is right and the Fleebaggers wrong (Elections have consequences). You don’t get both answers when it suits you.

garage mahal said...

Damn right! It's the "new democracy" doncha know.

We learned from the Tea Party. So thanks!

Paddy O said...

"has been playing out for many years in French politics."

Though, it is worth noting how Sarkozy responded to the recent strikes in France. He waited them out, then went forward with his plan.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Except no one has been able to dig up any evidence that Walker vowed to limit the collective bargaining rights of public employees...

Well then we should oppose Obama Care and SO SHOULD OBAMA, remember he opposed the health Insurance Mandate, PRIOR to election. So to be consistent, Obama needs to agree with the Republicans, DEFUND Obama Care and either:
1) Substitute another program; or
2) Run in 2012 on the platform of instituting Obama Care.
Please tell me which one you advocate.

Chase said...

We learned from the Tea Party. So thanks!

Learned what, exactly?

Exactly what are the points of similarity between Tea Party Rallies - Tea Party only, thank you - and the Wisconsin Wannabes Demonstrations?

Please begin.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


We learned from the Tea Party. So thanks!

*Wow* So you mean exercising our First Amendment Rights of Assembly, Speech, and Petition and then voting is the equivalent of running away from your constitutionally mandated duties as elected officials? Who knew?

I'm a Shaaaaark said...

"I assure you that Democratic state senators, despite our differences and the vigorous debate we have had, remain ready and willing to find a reasonable compromise," Miller said in the letter.

Well, you've been so reasonable thus far, Mr. Miller, why would anyone doubt it?

However, the word "reasonable", to these democrats is "What we want. No matter what."

Sigivald said...

Instead of working toward the next election, you use any strategy you can think of to prevent the exercise of power by the representatives the people have chosen to run the government?

This is mean and perhaps slightly off-base, but...

That's exactly the Marxist-Leninist line, isn't it (at least for those occasions when outright force would be counterproductive)?

Maybe it's just the result of decades of "radical" influence, but what can we expect?

The "base" won't let them do otherwise, will it?

former law student said...

You do realize that the rules of the Wisconsin Legislature do not recognize this procedure

I recognize that since statehood, Wisconsin's constitution has required a quorum of 3/5 of the legislators to pass fiscal bills. Coincidentally this is the number of US Senators who by rule are needed to overcome a filibuster.

garage mahal said...

Abe Lincoln jumped out a 2nd story window to avoid a quorum! Good enough for Abe, good enough for garage.

I'm a Shaaaaark said...

And yet, Garage, Lincoln delayed the vote maybe for a few hours at most - not weeks. He was returned to the chambers and the House voted.

Not comparable at all.

ricpic said...

I don't get the sympathy for an 85 year old man or a six months pregnant woman who are irrefutably LAWLESS.

ricpic said...

who is LAWLESS

Aridog said...

The Tea Party movement mobbed capitol buildings, made a mess, and shut down legislatures?

I never knew that.:-))

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


I recognize that since statehood, Wisconsin's constitution has required a quorum of 3/5 of the legislators to pass fiscal bills. Coincidentally this is the number of US Senators who by rule are needed to overcome a filibuster.

Excuse me how is this an answer? It’s also the number of members needed to voer-ride the decision of Executive Officer of the Collective, who is elected on a weekly basis….It may be the number of mermaids necessary to appoint the new Merqueen? What does your statement have to do with anything, other than it involves 2 entities that require a 3/5 majority to do something?

MikeR said...

Well, I'm tempted to agree with garage. The polls definitely seem to tend that way. I'm appalled, though. What in the world is the matter with people? How can any person in his right mind watch what these senators are doing and not want them fired? Really, don't they believe in democracy, with all their calls for more democracy?

I can only figure that they have been told from their youth that UNION=GOOD, and just can't see past that.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Apparently the Democrats will not be returning to their state, per Gov. Walker today.

Simply put, they will have to come to the capitol if they wish to have a face-to-face with the governor.

@Chase

"Learned what, exactly?

Exactly what are the points of similarity between Tea Party Rallies - Tea Party only, thank you - and the Wisconsin Wannabes Demonstrations?"

Cue crickets, Chase. There are no similarities, other than they are both attended by hominids that act quite differently.

Jana said...

As was pointed out on NRO today, Mitch Daniels eliminated CBR, saw his polls dip to 35% (worse than Walker) and now enjoys 60%+ approval ratings.

Walker knows this.

pstukel said...

FSL - I truly hope and pray that you're just being argumentative here, although it doesn't look that way given the number of times over several posts that you've made this argument.

I beg of you, take the longer view. Your guys will be in power again someday, maybe someday soon if you and garage are right on the politics. Do you really want this kind of chaos every time there's a disagreement? Representative democracy can only work if there are agreed-upon rules that everybody follows. There is simply no equivalence between what the US Senate GOP did and what the WI Senate Dems are doing, and I suspect that deep down you know it. The former followed the rules of the body in which they sit. The latter subverted the rules of the body in which they sit. (And please, don't even try to compare quorum rules to filibuster rules. They are completely separate, with completely separate and well-understood objectives.) If you want a filibuster in Wisconsin, get the damned votes and create one. But the for moment, the rules are what they are and unless you want mob rule, they should be followed.

You've got a golden opportunity to reverse what Walker and the GOP are doing. It's called the next election. I suggest you take advantage of it, rather than support anarchy - 'cause that's a huge dead-end.

DADvocate said...

I'm not sure what FLS's point is regarding filibuster.

He can't argue the facts. Ever. So he has to set up a strawman and go off on a tangent.

Phil 3:14 said...

To quote Adm. Ackbar:
"Its a trap!"

mrs whatsit said...

The Fleeing 14 remind me of those unsuccessful teenaged candidates on American Idol who, upon being told that they can't sing well enough to advance to the next round, start pleading, "But I want this so badly! I've wanted it all my life! You have no idea how much I want it! I'll work so hard, please give me another chance, I want this SOOO much!"

This is two-year-old-level thinking: I want this, therefore I should get what I want, whether or not I have earned it, whether or not the rules provide for it, whether or not I am capable of it. It's bad enough to see such behavior in deluded adolescents on a TV reality show -- but downright sickening in so-called adults.

As for who's controlling the 14legislators and keeping restless ones from coming home, I'll bet it's not any of the 14 themselves: it's union lawyers and officials who are leaning on the legislators, offering who knows what and threatening who knows what, to keep them right where they are. The unions have never been notorious for their respect for the rule of law. They can't afford to lose this and do not intend to.

Synova said...

"How dare they ask his Majesty for a face to face meeting! Come to my Palace!

Be here by 4:00 today....or .....else!
"

Seriously, garage. I realize it will be difficult but try really *really* hard to imagine the same scenario with the political parties reversed. If you say it seems reasonable to you even then, you're lying.

Goju said...

Turns out Walker had been working with the Dems over the weekend to resolve this. Miller is grandstanding and trying not to look like he just folded up.

Walker is also considering releasing all his communications with the Dems since they ran away.

shoutingthomas said...

garbage isn't trying to be reasonable.

His goal is so important that he doesn't give a fuck how it is achieved.

This appears to be what motivates the WI Dems and their followers.

So, I say to Gov. Walker, crush the bastards.

Calypso Facto said...

Walker is also considering releasing all his communications with the Dems since they ran away.

I'd love to see/hear the communications between Miller and WEAC/AFSCME/AFL-CIO leaders. Would make the D Koch prank call transcript look tame, I'm willing to bet.

garage mahal said...

Seriously, garage. I realize it will be difficult but try really *really* hard to imagine the same scenario with the political parties reversed. If you say it seems reasonable to you even then, you're lying.

Republicans in the minority set records for denying the majority the ability to bring bills to the floor for a simple vote.

Steven said...

How dare they ask his Majesty for a face to face meeting! Come to my Palace!

Oh, please. I'm sure Governor Walker would be happy to meet Senator Miller in the Senator's office, at Wisconsin Democratic Party HQ (110 King Street, Suite 203, Madison, WI 53703), or even in any location of the Senator's choice in the Senator's district.

Methadras said...

Does the governor have the power to nullify these idiots representatives powers or remove them from office with an executive order?

Methadras said...

garage mahal said...

How dare they ask his Majesty for a face to face meeting! Come to my Palace!

Be here by 4:00 today....or .....else!


Still bitterly clinging to your idiocy.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Any company I ever worked at would have fired me within 24 hours if I decided to skip town because I didn't want to do the job I was hired to do.

Synova said...

garage...

Imagine, just for a moment, a Republican minority leader, after fleeing to another state for a month, demanding that the Democrat governor of the state, drive to the state line for a meeting.

It's not about *obstructionism*, it's about your little bit of wit about "His Majesty" Walker demanding they come to the "Palace". If Walker was refusing to walk over to the other guy's office your "wit" about His Majesty might be relevant.

I realize that it's really difficult to imagine a hypothetical as unlikely as Republicans hiding out in another state for a month, and maybe that's why you had to substitute other lack of cooperation and got distracted, but try anyway.

Reverse the parties.

And tell me that Republican minority leaders who demanded something as ridiculous as a governor traveling to meet them on a state line would seem reasonable to you.

Calypso Facto said...

Republicans in the minority set records for denying the majority the ability to bring bills to the floor for a simple vote.

But not the billion dollar tax increase in the last (2009) Democrat budget repair bill that was passed in 24 hours with no public comment period and no Repub votes. (Note, I did not say that the bill was stalled by Repubs fleeing the state...)

shoutingthomas said...

garbage, you are a Stalinist.

The end justifies the means.

BJM said...

Walker responded to Miller's letter in his presser this morning (@ 3:20). Yesterday Walker sent two high level staffers to Il to meet with Miller for the second time in a week.

Miller's playing a PR game.

Alex said...

I'm lovin' it, and you know I'm not talkin' about McDonald's hamburgers!

detroitexile said...

This post gives me such flashbacks to the health care reform debate period, it's unreal. Especially that opinion polls point in the last paragraph.

Currently, there is no political rationale for the Wisconsin 14 to return. At the moment Walker is banking on a Democrat sacrificing his or her career for him; polling worse in WI than the teachers' and public employee unions; and blocked from negotiating in bad faith because of the silly prank call. The Governor may still win this Mexican standoff, but he's not exactly operating from a position of strength.

Alex said...

I think a lot of WI swing-voters are rejecting Walker because they feel the budget situation is not so dire that it needs extreme remedies. Walker overreached, pure & simple.

Lamar63 said...

Another day and a different opinion. A few days ago when it looked like the protests were getting out of hand, I thought it would be best and come back and vote.

Now I think it would be best for the Dems to stay out until collective bargaining is off the table. The die has been cast and the Dems might as well get something out of it. The opinion tide is in their favor.

Why should they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

Leland said...

I guess they don't teach the differences between a quorum call and a filibuster in law school. That's a shame, because understanding the purpose of each is one reason to make sure both exist.

And no, running away is absolutely not the same thing as a filibuster. The whole point of a filibuster is a demand that sufficient time be given for debate to consider all the issues. Running away is not a debate. And to the issue that a filibuster via dumb Democratic rules in the US Senate isn't really a filibuster anymore; that's probably because those making the rules there were educated in the same place as FLS.

Alex said...

What I find shocking is how WI public opinion is WITH the fleebaggers.

Lincolntf said...

Tee-hee. Republican letter to fleebaggers: (via AoSHQ and NRO)

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/261527/best-letter-ever-top-wis-gop-senator-responds-missing-dems-katrina-trinko

Lamar63 said...

@Alex--

Wisconsin has a very long and proud history of pro-unionism. Walker over-reached with his limits on collective bargaining.

I find it shocking that half of the people in Wisconsin favor limiting collective bargaining.

I can't think of a good analogy but it would be equivalent of the Democratic Governor of Texas outlawing pick-up trucks and half of the state agreed with him.

shoutingthomas said...

Wisconsin has a very long and proud history of pro-unionism. Walker over-reached with his limits on collective bargaining.

This is just bullshit.

Federal employees operate under the same rules Walker is proposing.

President Jimmy Carter introduced the legislation that made that reality. President Obama presided for two years over an all Democratic Congress and did not see fit to rescind that legislation.

What the fuck is all this lying about?

former law student said...

Any company I ever worked at would have fired me within 24 hours if I decided to skip town because I didn't want to do the job I was hired to do.

Senators were "hired" by their constituents. They must consider remaining outside the state to be in their constituents' best interests. If not, Wisconsin does have the remedy of the recall. (Unfortunately, Walker cannot be recalled till he's been in office one year. This may be why he's in such a hurry to strip public employees of their rights -- there's a one-year recall prevention window.)

shoutingthomas said...

I don't think I've ever witnessed such an avalanche of outright lying and vicious deception as the Democratic commenters to this blog are contributing.

When Republicans have the full Congress and the Senate, I don't want to hear any crying when you get it up the ass. You hear?

You're just rank lying bastards. You want what you want, and you're willing to do anything to get it.

I don't see any reason to even pretend to play fair anymore.

shoutingthomas said...

fls, you lying piece of shit.

Walker is not going to be recalled.

Do you have anything to say that isn't just an outright fabrication or a lie?

former law student said...

Federal employees operate under the same rules Walker is proposing.

Do Federal employees report to the Menomonie District School Board? Or do they have protections that teachers can only dream of.

shoutingthomas said...

fls, you sack of shit.

You want the outcome you want.

You're willing to lie, fabricate... anything.

I hope you get the boot on the back of your head in the future.

That's what you're doing now, you rank bastard.

former law student said...

Walker is not going to be recalled.

I'm sure California's Grey Davis was surprised as well. He was another ineffective governor who spent more time catering to his campaign funders than on what was best for his state.

shoutingthomas said...

fls, garbage,

These tactics are one step short of a shooting war.

Don't bitch when it turns on you.

Because it will.

shiloh said...

@shoutingthomas

This is just bullshit.

when you get it up the ass.

You're just rank lying bastards

you lying piece of shit.

you sack of shit.

get the boot on the back of your head

you rank bastard.
~~~~~


Indeed, as just another intelligent example why AA is 100% positive she has the best political blog on the net.

Not a close call lol

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Licolntf

"As you know, your opportunity to compromise and amend the bill was on the floor of the state Senate. As you know, you forfeited that right and opportunity when you decided to flee the state instead of doing your job." - excerpt from the letter to Dem. minority leader Miller

Money shot.

shoutingthomas said...

Indeed, as just another intelligent example why AA is 100% positive she has the best political blog on the net.

shiloh, you're another lying sack of shit.

Althouse has absolutely no relationship to me.

Do you do anything but lie?

Chef Mojo said...

Hey Shiloh! Who elected you Civility Bullshit Monitor? You come off as a fucking hall monitor in a shabby uniform, lording it over the late-to-class students while keeping your nose so far up the principal's ass the poor guy gets your sniffles.

Go off in the corner and polish up your vinyl Sam Browne belt, willya? And quit being such a vapid, meaningless dick.

ambisinistral said...

I'm from Florida and quite confused -- doesn't Wisconsin have a Sunshine law?

I see this: http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Wisconsin_Open_Meetings_Law

Supposedly these people (Dems and Reps) have been having discussions with each other and exchanging emails. Aren't those meetings supposed to be open?

Why hasn't anybody filed and FOI request for records of those meeting and any emails pertaining to them? Are some meetings protected, or am I missing something else?

former law student said...

My state senator is Fred Risser, and that man is 83 years old. It bothers me to think of such an old man held hostage to politics in some motel in Illinois.

When my relatives were his age they'd be on a cheap excursion to Las Vegas, staying at the Imperial Palace. Or at least taking an overnight bus ride to an Indian casino. Getting out of Wisconsin can only be good for octogenarians

I recommend the Museum of Science and Industry.

Chip S. said...

As for the legend of "Leaping Lincoln," perhaps one day the fleeing 14 will regret their rashness as much as Abe did. According to the historical marker in Springfield describing the episode:

An embarrassed Lincoln ever after resented references to what he called that "jumping scrape."

gutless said...

This meet at the border thing is hilarious! We listen to this stuff and get so used to it that even a real whopper fails to get the full barrage of derision, scorn and mocking that it deserves. Step back a minute and consider this whole fiasco. This Miller guy should never again be able to show his face in Wisconsin without being greeted with uproarious laughter and scorn. What a pip squeak.

shiloh said...

Althouse has absolutely no relationship to me.

Too funny as shoutingthomas is totally clueless and Mojo, I'll take your eloquence under advisement as one only needs basic sarcasm to strike a nerve at AA's winger bubble!

David53 said...

Shiloh,

Are you any relation to Shawn Christy?

shoutingthomas said...

Too funny as shoutingthomas is totally clueless and Mojo, I'll take your eloquence under advisement as one only needs basic sarcasm to strike a nerve at AA's winger bubble!

shiloh, you're a fucking idiot.

You're a boring and annoying idiot.

You've only ever had anything to say here. Anybody who disagrees with you about anything is a right winger.

Go away and suck your thumb, idiot.

David said...

So now it's a hostage crisis?

The minority leader does not have a gun to their head.

The "14" are holding themselves hostage. Any one of them can come back at any time. That might be the end of a political career, since politicians are cannibals who love to feast on their own kind best, or it could be the start of a better path, that would involve a reputation for independence and courage.

murgatroyd666 said...

The "14" are holding themselves hostage.

Yes, but there is a precedent.

shiloh said...

shoutingthomas, when I write my biography I'll probably leave out your wonderful economy with words as less is more ...

but I look forward to your next syllable with great eagerness!

take care

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) said in a letter sent out Monday that he wants to meet with Republicans 'near the Wisconsin-Illinois border to formally resume serious discussions' on Walker's budget repair bill."

ROFLMAO.

"I suppose the "fleebaggers" would like to say that current public opinion polls ought to replace the results of the last election. Is that "what democracy looks like" in your version of American representative democracy? Only a Democrat with very short-term vision could say yes."

Suffice it to say that it appears the democrats are positioning themselves as virtually unaccountable for anything. If they succeed in Wisconsin then we might as well pack it in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

Big Mike said...

I hope Walker holds firmly to his position, and that the Republican senators back him up.

Thronateeska said...

Well, why don't the republicans just accept their loss to Obama and the democrats the previous election, accept The Affordable Care Act and quit trying to litigate it?

I mean, that election meant something also. Obama ran on a national healthcare plan. Why don't elections mean anything?

JSxUi3xsr5oQhPC8Bw6LM_.go_81QcQ- said...

@paddy-o

Unlike Walker's bill, the Senate passed health care reform with 60% of the vote. 19/33 is a little bit short, but I guess you're familiar with that, no?

Paddy O said...

"I guess you're familiar with that, no?"

Really? Ten hours later and you're going for the short jokes? I strongly suspect you snickered when you wrote that.

I've never really gotten hit with a short joke before. Of any kind. So, it's actually not familiar. It feels sort of like someone telling a blonde joke in order to offend me.

Charlie said...

Amazing pictures! I was in this hotel before a year thorough last minute travel with my family. It is fantastic hotel very good for enjoying vacation with the family.

audi-parts

Largo said...

Farmer Thugs!

Fearsome image, garage!

Followed by "Note: This is not an image from next week's farmer-labor day at the Wisconsin Capitol Building. That hasn't happened yet. This is an image meant to illustrate the concept of a tractorcade for anyone who's never seen one. Apologies for any confusion."

Oh, please tell us that you read this disclaimer before sharing that link with us! If you did, I think you win the thread.

smclean150 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Don't Tread 2012 said...

Update: WEAKSAUCE

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/03/07/wis-dems-file-ethics-complaint-against-walker/

MathMom said...

I think Walker should meet the Fleebaggers "near" the Wisconsin/Illinois border. On the Wisconsin side. And with a bunch of state troopers to arrest their sorry butts.

ThomasD said...

I seem to recall a whole lot of concern within the media about how certain female candidates might not be able to balance the demands of office with the needs of small children at home.

Funny how that is not an issue for the pregnant Wisconsin Senator, or at least it is not one worthy of media attention.

former law student said...

Funny how that is not an issue for the pregnant Wisconsin Senator

We have no evidence (such as an unwed pregnant daughter) that Sen. Lassa cannot cope with her non-special-needs kids.

MadisonMan said...

And with a bunch of state troopers to arrest their sorry butts.

What law, specifically, have they broken?

MadisonMan said...

This is (IMO) a battle over Senate rules. Why involve the State Patrol if no laws have been broken (an IF that I'm not sure is true).

MathMom said...

Madison Man, there is now an arrest warrant out for them, isn't there? That's why they should arrest them.

From now on, every state should enact a law that states that this sort of BS is a punishable offense.

MadisonMan said...

Somehow I had missed the issuance of an arrest warrant (thank you google).

So why would they meet in Wisconsin, then? You might as well wish for a sky that's purple.

As for 'this' BS -- why not add Constitutional Restrictions to what can be in a Budget Bill? Why are Budget Bills routinely full of non-budget cr*p?

Bryan C said...

"Senators were "hired" by their constituents. They must consider remaining outside the state to be in their constituents' best interests. If not, Wisconsin does have the remedy of the recall."

The state senators were "hired" to represent their constituents in the state legislature. They are state represenatives and their only constituency is the state as a whole, not "people we like today" or "white people" or "union members". They represent the people of their state - both the people who voted for them and the people who did not vote for them.

The best and only interest of their constituents, as far as a represenative is concerned, is to be present and perform the legislative duties they swore to perform. That's their function and their reason for existing.
Not when it's convenient for them, or when someone has given them gifts to win their favor, or when they personally agree with the particular issue before the legislature. All the time.

That is the very powerful and crtical mechanism they are entrusted with for the prupose of representing the best interests of the people of their state. But they aren't doing that. Instead, they've chosen place their own personal interests above those of their constituents. They're on strike against the people they swore to represent. They're simply cowards. Childish and selfish cowards.

MadisonMan said...

They are state represenatives and their only constituency is the state as a whole, not "people we like today" or "white people" or "union members". They represent the people of their state - both the people who voted for them and the people who did not vote for them.

Why should a Senator care what someone not in his district wants if it runs contrary to his or her own constituents' wishes?

Why should a Senator from Pennsylvania support a costly bridge to nowhere in Alaska, for example, even if all Alaskans and people in every other state want it if most Pennsylvanians do not?

Senators are voting for the best interest of their district (or state) first and foremost, and for the good of the State (or Country, depending on the Legislature) second. A possibly very distant second.

Sofa King said...

Senators are voting for the best interest of their district (or state) first and foremost, and for the good of the State (or Country, depending on the Legislature) second.

They are entitled to do so. They are not entitled to go AWOL so as to prevent voting at all.

I say, indict and extradite.

Fen said...

/note to self

Read Althouse in the AM. The Libtards don't wake up till noon.

Leland said...

Why should a Senator from Pennsylvania support a costly bridge to nowhere in Alaska, for example, even if all Alaskans and people in every other state want it if most Pennsylvanians do not?

Well, I want to agree with Madman's sentiment about representation, but then he throws out the above statement. I was no fan of the Alaskan bridge; but right about now, it would be nice to have better access to Alaskan oil reserves. I don't have to actually live in Alaska to understand the strategic value to the country of having good access to valuable minerals. I certainly understand that far better than the federal governments interest in my private health.

former law student said...

They are state represenatives and their only constituency is the state as a whole

No, Wisconsin Senators are elected by individual districts, whose interests they represent in the Senate. If you would rather they were elected at large, try proposing that as a constitutional amendment.

Alex said...

The state senators were "hired" to represent their constituents in the state legislature.

For once I agree with FLS - the state senator has no obligation beyond his/her district.