March 3, 2011

"Chicago is up in the house!"/"He's never nipped at anybody but he barks and growls"/"I wanna be your dog"...

... "Everyone left is from Chicago"/"It's the love-in of a lifetime"/"People are going to be really embarrassed some day to look back and realize that they had joined in on something that was really a mistake and they chose the wrong side and that they joined it with such fervor"/"Did you ever do that when you were young?"



All this video was recorded yesterday... except the flashback. (That was originally blogged on February 17th.)

And here's the NYT article on "self-compassion" that I talk about in the car.

49 comments:

Meade said...

Meade's patronizing attitude is unlikeable.

Patrick said...

Back in my UW Madison days, (mid to late 80's), the only protests going were Nicaragua based. Proud to say I stayed out of the protests. I recognized that the Contras weren't exactly angels, but it always troubled me how easily the left in Madison and elsewhere simply took the side of a communist dictator who was clearly against the interests of the US, and the Nicaraguan people.

Triangle Man said...

Meade: non-threatening dog psychologist. Are you wearing a cardigan?

Freder Frederson said...

Meade's patronizing attitude is unlikeable.

Actually both of your patronizing attitudes are unlikeable. You are so damn sure that Walker is right and that public employee unions are the cause of all Wisconsin's woes.

You describe the protesters like they are defending the Klan, not objecting to the dissolution of collective bargaining rights.

And what is this about "Nixon's so-called invasion of Cambodia." Did we not invade Cambodia.

Triangle Man said...

Are you "under cover" with the Jesse Jackson button Meade?

Patrick said...

Freder, you've created quite the strawman, there; Nice work!

Really, is anyone saying the public unions are the cause of ALL Wi's woes? No. Are they part of the problem? Sure as hell, and to deny that is to deny reality.

Freder Frederson said...

but it always troubled me how easily the left in Madison and elsewhere simply took the side of a communist dictator who was clearly against the interests of the US, and the Nicaraguan people.

Funny dictatorship where the "dictator" is elected in free and fair elections, voted out and voluntarily leaves office in free and fair elections and then is reelected 16 years later

Meade said...

"Did we not invade Cambodia."

"We?"

You didn't. Neither did I.

And neither did Nixon.

Freder Frederson said...

Are they part of the problem? Sure as hell, and to deny that is to deny reality.

Actually, states that have no collective bargaining rights for their employees are in as bad or worse shape than Wisconsin. So there is simply not a given that the unions or their benefits are the problem. Now if you want to argue that deliberate underfunding of pension funds is causing problems and much of the problem, I won't argue with you at all--but that is the legislatures' fault, not the unions'

Maguro said...

I just knew that Freder would love the Sandinistas, what with him being such an independent-minded free thinker and all. He's totally unlike those conformist teabagger types.

Patrick said...

Except you forgot about the part (during the relevant time period, I might add) where he refused to give up power, where he treated the army and police force as a personal band of thugs, refused to give political opponents the right to dissent, and had people killed at his whim. And, tell me, do you really think he would have allowed the election if 1. There wasn't outside pressure for the election and 2. He wasn't convinced he had thugs competent enough to rig the election? Yeah, Ortega was a regular saint.

Freder Frederson said...

And neither did Nixon.

As commander in chief of the U.S. military he most certainly did.

And "we" as citizens of the U.S. (I assume you were a citizen of the U.S. at the time) also did.

But you're right, I was still a British citizen at the time, so I guess I didn't.

Meade said...

So why the "we" question?

Patrick said...

Freder, don't you thing the pension underfunding is related to the size of the promised pensions? I would think that has a pretty strong correlation to the CB carried on by the unions with the Democrats that the unions support. The Union tail wagging the dog.

PaulV said...

Fredor, The North Vietnamese Army invaded Cambodia and used it to attack South Viet Nam. Stuck on Stupid are you.

Freder Frederson said...

The North Vietnamese Army invaded Cambodia and used it to attack South Viet Nam.

I'm stuck on stupid? Where in the definition of invasion does it say that more than one country can't invade another one. (e.g., both the Germans and the Russians invaded Poland in WWII, and the Americans, the Germans and even the Free French invaded France in WWII).

lemondog said...

Chicagoans = mentally-ill?

Lassie should have taken a chunk out of you.

Richard said...

Enough people have real life experience with the ill effects of union activity upon continued job growth (plant shutdowns due to refusal to make concessions)production efficiency ( workplace rules) and, in the public sector, overly generous fringe benifits, to understand intuitively that public umions are part of the problem; and, so, I suspect Walker is safe in the PR battle despite what some polls would suggest. But, Walker needs to do a better job of explaining the protections for public employees in the civil service statutes, that such protections will remain in effect after passage of the pending budget legislation, and the reason why collective bargaining will frustrate implementation of cost savings at the county and local level. The voters need to understand this becuase this battle, even if won is just the beggining. The unions will target every republican legislative seat, in swing districts, and the governor, in the next election. The campaign will be as dirty as anyone living can remember, like a 50,000 mama badgers protecting their "rights', I mean cubs. The taxpayers will be mistaken to be complacent.

Jay Retread said...

It seems old Meade is more certain in his views and less open to the possibility that he might be wrong than when he was young. Maybe we will look back and say it was foolish to cut technical college funding given that is how many people get retrained so they can get back to work? Maybe we will look back and say killing recycling and wind farms in Wisconsin was not very forward looking? Maybe we will look back and say that Walker decimating public transit while committing the state to new expensive road building projects now that gas is $10 was not such a good idea.
But Meade, the good thing about being old is that you are not around to see the results of the things you were so certain of.

Meade said...

lemondog said...
"Chicagoans = mentally-ill?"

No. My remark was that the remaining demonstrators were either from Chicago or else were mentally ill. Harsh hyperbolic humor, I grant you.

But I know plenty of people from Chicago who are not mentally ill.

Meade said...

"Maybe we will look back and say it was foolish to cut technical college funding given that is how many people get retrained so they can get back to work? Maybe we will look back and say killing recycling and wind farms in Wisconsin was not very forward looking? Maybe we will look back and say that Walker decimating public transit while committing the state to new expensive road building projects now that gas is $10 was not such a good idea."

Maybe. And maybe not.

Michael said...

Jay Retread: You might consider the fact that Meade is looking out for the interests of the young. Older people can easily decide it is easier to have the high speed choos and the windmills and the electric cars, all paid for by the "government" because they will in no way have to pay for it. But those who are young will. And judging from your comments you will not be up to the task.

lemondog said...

But I know plenty of people from Chicago who are not mentally ill.

Wheww! So glad to hear plenty are not mentally ill.

Pogo said...

He didn't say plenty.

I mean, they elected Rahm as Mayor. I kid you not. Crazy, right?

Jay Retread said...

The point is Meade in your drive around the Capitol you are no less rigid in your beliefs than what you are ascribing to those protesting Walker. A little bit of self knowledge would make you look a lot less foolish.

Thronateeska said...

Interesting conversation and I appreciate the insight. I liked how you pinned Meade down on his thoughts regarding the protesters.

While I disagree with his take, I respect his heartfelt thoughts and appreciate, as a middle-aged person, his and your perspective on this thing.

I wish I knew what to put in this comment that properly expresses all the emotions I've felt while watching ya'll cover this thing. I wouldn't have picked this battle if I were the national labor organizations. It has always had the odor of the Alamo about it.

Yet here we are and people like Meade wonder why folks can't see it his way. I get that, but I also think he should get that there really are more things at stake there, now, than whether local school boards can change pension plans.

Its unfortunate for Wisconsin, but this thing has landed in her lap and maybe its time people there looked beyond the end of their own nose.

It would seem to me that a promise made is a promise to be kept. Promises are sometimes hard to deliver on, but then, that's what makes the quality of the promiser.

Pogo said...

Okay, he saud plenty. but he's being generous.

I would say more like probably maybe dozens.

Meade said...

Lemondog, the deeper one goes into the heart of Wisconsin, the more one comes to the conclusion a fella would have to be out of his mind to want to live in Chicago. Okay?

Pogo said...

I keep seeing "Retard" when Jay's name comes up, and then he says something to confirm it.

Meade said...

As you know, Pogo, we are all at least just a little bit retreaded.

Pogo said...

That explains all the unwound tire parts on the interstate.

Class factotum said...

Maybe we will look back and say it was foolish to cut technical college funding given that is how many people get retrained so they can get back to work

So now how is Milwaukee Area Technical College supposed to pay for its sweet new contract? I mean, I'm OK with paying someone over $100,000 a year to be a Professor of Painting Fingernails, but other people might not be.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/116370714.html

SGT Ted said...

I bet that they could find enough moneu to fund tech schools if they eliminated the bullshit neoMarxism courses like womens and ethnic studies.

dreams said...

Althouse is right, young people have to live life and learn. Hopefully most of them will eventually learn that there liberal views were wrong.

lemondog said...

I mean, they elected Rahm as Mayor. I kid you not. Crazy, right?

Yer right. I may have to backtrack on my mentally ill objection unless it is found that something was put into the water to create temporary derangement.

Emil Blatz said...

My embarrassment? Working on Jerry Brown's 1980 primary campaign. Just recalling it is like self flagellation with a rusty chain. But you live, and learn and make progress. And grow up. These crowds looked at least partially mature, and they, let's say those over 30, are adult (or senior) know-nothings. The kids can be forgiven.

deborah said...

Fabulous video. An actual work of art.

Meade said...

"Fabulous video. An actual work of art."

If I'm New Media Meade, I'm going to suggest we dub her The Artist Formerly Known As Althouse.

edutcher said...

Freder/Montaigne/Alpha forgets, if it ever penetrated his skull, that the NVA used Cambodia as part of the Ho Chi Minh Trail, as well as sanctuaries to kill our guys. They Commies weren't asked to come there.

We had every right to go there.

And we invaded it in the same sense we invaded Normandy and the Philippines.

virgil xenophon said...

Following on the point just made by edutcher, it should be noted that, unlike the Nazi and Soviet invasion of Poland, we didn't invade Cambodia to divvy it up w. the N. Vietnamese-- or is that too "nuanced" a point for some people?

JohnnyT1948 said...

Any comments about this article, where a private citizen is filing for a Writ of Mandamus against Sen Jim Holperin. Does such a tactic have any chance of success.

http://mediatrackers.org/2011/03/private-citizen-sues-democratic-senator-jim-holperin/#comments

JohnnyT1948 said...

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I saw this posted on BadgerBlogger

Almost Ali said...

...Writ of Mandamus against Sen Jim Holperin. Does such a tactic have any chance of success.

Apparently not: "Oconto Co. Judge Jay Conley... declines to grant what's called an "emergency preemptory writ of mandamus" to order Holperin to appear." Link.

kerry said...

Thanks to Ms. Althouse and Media Meade for the inside scoop on this WI conflab. I also have to say you both have proven that photo/videography are the new tools for reportage!

pst314 said...

"Stuck on Stupid are you."

No, Freder is stuck on evil.

"Father do not forgive them, for they know what they do."

Jon Burack said...

Both sides of this dialogue play out in my mind and have ever since the early 1980s, when I awoke from my SDS days fully. I was at the Commerce Building on Oct. 17, 1967, in a "support" march outside the building when word came the cops were on campus and we needed to pack the building. So pack we did, even though we had refused to do the civil disobedience part up to that moment. All our careful calibrating of our readiness to fight the man vanished in the heat of the moment, and there I was in the front door area when we all got pulled and beaten out. My heroic moment, which led to four or five years of intense "commitment." In Leonard Cohen's words, I "laugh and cry, and cry and laugh about it all" over and over and have ever since.

Jon Burack said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jon Burack said...

I meant October 18, 1967. I think that is the correct date.

Actually, though, I have another comment for Ann Althouse. I do not know if it has been addressed. I see a lot here and all over about how layoffs are going to decimate the lives of these public employees. Is the assumption that layoffs WON'T occur if Walker's plan does not go through? Because, if so, it rests on the assumption that the budget crunch is fictitious. If it is not fictitious, it seems to me the maintenance of full union power will only guarantee MORE layoffs in the end. I will wait to see if anyone takes up this theme before going on about it further.

Charlie said...

Me and my friend were arguing about an issue similar to this! Now I know that I was right. lol! Thanks for the information you post.

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