October 10, 2010

Another classic case of hardass New Yorkitude.

From the comments section of the NY Post:
this story actually makes me furious. she peed her pants and she's suing a club. another classic case of an "entitlement cvnt".

last time i checked pregnancy was a personal choice. you aren't bestowed with any special powers, knowledge, or freedoms.

don't like being pregnant in big bad ny -- then leave, and go the burbs where you and giant stroller belong.

i have a country house in CT. they'll let you pee anywhere here. get out of ny, spoiled whining cow.
This story makes me furious too, by the way. I'm furious that a newspaper reports on a lawsuit without stating what the legal claim is. Is there a tort claim in New York for failing to give special treatment to pregnant women? "She blames Hammerstein management for the humiliation of wetting her pants"... but isn't this publicity, brought on by the lawsuit, humiliating? Or is she trying to "humiliate" the Hammerstein Ballroom into paying her off to undo the bad publicity she's giving them — with the help of a lawsuit and NY Post?

ADDED: I'm removing the "lawsuits I hope will fail" tag, because I don't understand what really happened here. My criticism is of the journalism, and my reason for writing the post was the hilariously unsympathetic comment. I'm not entirely unsympathetic myself. I remember being pregnant in New York City — twice — and wanting people to be spontaneously helpful to me — giving me a seat on the subway or offering me a place to nap at the law firm — and feeling sad about humanity because I didn't get that help. But I never asked for special concern.

Except once, actually. It was 1982, and I was going on a religious retreat with a group of individuals from a Manhattan church. It was about a 3-hour drive to the place, and a woman in the van lit up a cigarette. Would you please not smoke? I asked. She said she would continue to smoke, so I said that the reason I felt I had to ask is that I was pregnant. The woman and everyone else in the van rejected my request. I was told that smoking is only bad for the smoker — as if I were dumb to think otherwise. I said I couldn't go with them, and they stopped the van and gave me my luggage. As they left me there on the wrong side of the West Side Highway, which I would have to cross, at night, before hiking a couple of unfamiliar blocks to get to a place where I could begin to try to hail a cab, one young woman detained me for a little lecture: I was being selfish and not considerate of others, and therefore I was not a good Christian. I used to feel chastened by criticisms like that, and it wasn't until I was in the cab, crying, heading back toward Brooklyn, that it occurred to me that I might have said to her that I was concerned for others, because I was concerned about my unborn child.

CORRECTION: That was the NY Post, not The Daily News. Sorry.

74 comments:

former law student said...

Way too few details. I've heard of businesses locking the restrooms when they're trying to clear the building, but any business that tries to attract female customers should understand they need to use the restroom after any show.

Ann Althouse said...

I got the impression she was a passerby not a patron.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

From the article:

...was desperate to use the ladies room while filing out with the crowd after a comedy act at the Midtown venue last October.

So I think she was a customer.

lemondog said...

She was roughly 3 weeks away from delivery. I assume the bladder pressing was something she had already experienced. She went to a crowded venue for I assume a fair period of time. Did she not think to prepare for such an eventuality?

Doesn't the club or whatever it was, provide on-site bathroom facilities for its customers?

I didn't think anybody nowadays feels 'humiliation.'

What's Bloomberg proposing to do about it. Lindsay's law has nice alliteration.

Class factotum said...

Sort of related: The Pabst Theater in Milwaukee has a handicapped restroom blocked by a guard who will not allow anyone (non-handicapped, I suppose) to use it even when the line to the ladies' room is 20 deep. Better to have a restroom go unused than to let women who want to pee before Tom Jones starts singing go in the handicapped room!

Meade said...

If Trooper were awake, he'd tell you how the NY Yankees are going to win the World Series and then pee a river for garage mahal to swim through.

Oh, and that the New York Giants are going to Rule the World.

PatCA said...

A ballroom with no bathrooms?? There's more to this story.

Darleen said...

desperate to use the ladies room while filing out with the crowd after a comedy act at the Midtown venue last October. If she was with the crowd, it sounds like she was a customer.

Maybe she had no idea that she wouldn't be allowed to use the restrooms once the show was over. I don't know about NYC but just about any live event I've gone to in CA doesn't lock patrons out of the bathrooms after it. It is kind of expected everyone is going to visit them before getting into their cars and going home. I find this kind of policy on the part of the venue management frankly hostile to all customers, not just the preggers in the crowd. Does NYC tolerate men peeing alongside the buildings of such venues because they can't make it down the block?

And as far as the hostile "take your big belly and stroller to the burbs" well, thats just another facet of urban superiority over such obviously backward endeavors such as families and straight sex.

edutcher said...

Ann Althouse said...

I got the impression she was a passerby not a patron.

Since they told her there was a bathroom at the end of the block, I would agree.

This story makes me furious too, by the way. I'm furious that a newspaper reports on a lawsuit without stating what the legal claim is.

This is not unlike The Blonde assuming everybody knows medical terminology and basic procedures.

The Post is a tabloid. It's audience is the average blue collar schmoe - witness the general tone of the comments. They want lurid details and big bazooms (with maybe a little flag waving on the side).

You want tort claims and legal details, you go to the Law Review.

MayBee said...

The least humiliating time to pee your pants in public is when you are 8.5 months pregnant.

ricpic said...

She was told a bathroom was down the hall. It may have been a long haul but she chose not to hike it. How is this management's fault?

EDH said...

"Take a little sip, now's the time. You know, I figure there's a time for everything. The universe is so big, there's a place for it too. And this one's coming down toi you..."

One of many children,
everybody has their own opinion,
everybody has their own opinion,
holding it back
hurts so bad


she was holding it back
it hurts so bad
jumping out of her flesh
and i said

you better cash in!
cash in now honey
cash in now
cash in now baby
cash in now honey
cash in miss smith
cash in now baby!

The Drill SGT said...

Being an ass normally isn't a tort, particularly in NYC where it is a normal occupational requirement :)

ricpic said...

Down the block not down the hall. But accessible.

Trooper York said...

Meade said.......
If Trooper were awake, he'd tell you how the NY Yankees are going to win the World Series and then pee a river for garage mahal to swim through.

Oh, and that the New York Giants are going to Rule the World."

Right you are sir!!!!!!!!!!!

Trooper York said...

And I was awake...I was just at Mass and then I had to make the missus breakfast.

You know what I mean buddy!

ndspinelli said...

Prof,

While I agree reporting on the law is horrible, how about the more blatant and constant stupidity on reporting criminal law.

My top two are, "The defendant was found innocent." And I think 95% of reporters don't know the difference between robbery and burglary.

Synova said...

I don't see that as "hardass" attitude. It's just self indulgent attitude.

Which, of course, is what this person is accusing the woman of, for thinking she can *exist*.

Needing to pee is not a special privilege and a baby pushing on your bladder is only one reason that a person might have to pee *now* and not later.

That doesn't mean that the woman has cause to sue, only that the "hardass" is really just a pitiful person.

bagoh20 said...

She could also sue for not being able to write her name in the snow.

MadisonMan said...

Why not just use it without asking permission? Sure, that might be rude, but how is being rude not congruent with being a New Yorker?

It's better to ask forgiveness than permission.

sydney said...

Don't most cities/states have laws that public venues have to provide bathroom facilities?

MadisonMan said...

...and if the guard blocks her way, just knee him in the groin and go in.

What are the odds she'd get a formerly pregnant female judge who understood completely?

Meade said...

Trooper: Espresso and Irish oatmeal?

damikesc said...

God bless the more worldly New Yorkers.

And women that pregnant can have really quick problems when it comes to peeing. Didn't take my wife long to be about to burst.

I hate dumb suits...but those assholes in NYC make me dislike their city more.

Trooper York said...

On the other hand in my store the bathroom is the bane of my existance.

When they have the street fair everyone wants to come in and use my bathroom. Not customers. Just people off the street. People who live a block away and can go home. Or can go into a bar, buy a drink and have a legitimate reason to go to the john.

Then there is the issue of cleaning the bathroom. I had women not flush. One who actually shit on the floor. And more than one who peed on the floor which is interesting because you would think they had to be sitting down.
Who has to clean that up? Me.

So if you are not a legitimate customer.....you can just pee yourself.

Trooper York said...

Meade....a Frittata with onions and chorizo....strawberry's with cream.....espresso.

Ann Althouse said...

"I don't see that as "hardass" attitude. It's just self indulgent attitude."

The hardass is the commenter.

rhhardin said...

Preggers shows no interest in the interesting etymology pre-gnant, before birth.

Ralph L said...

I can't believe a church group left you at the side of the road for any reason. I hope you ripped someone a new one for that.

One of my ancestors attended Trinity Church before the Revolution. He was the only patriot of 17 children. He was down here fighting Cornwallis, saw some land he liked, bought it after the war, and sold the Plain at West Point to the USA (what an idiot, but he probably had to sell). From Manhattan to Person County, one of the emptiest in NC, then and now.

madawaskan said...

.a Frittata with onions and chorizo....strawberry's with cream.....espresso.

And, it's Trooper for the win.

Trooper York said...

Parents with small children and pregnant women have a sense of entitlement.

There is big problem with these giant fucking mega strollers. They come rolling in like they are re-enacting the fuckin Blitzkrieg on Cedarfords birthday. They push in and track flith and dirt on the rugs. Push into racks and knock over displays and break jewerly. The kid in the stroller reaches out with his fucking chocolate smeared hands.

Seriously.

Triangle Man said...

Next time I suggest she drop her pants and pee in whatever location is most convenient for her.


Althouse, everyone knows that second-hand tobacco smoke wasn't bad for anyone until the 1990's, and is only bad for people who live in lefty enclaves (and Florida) now.

former law student said...

My top two are, "The defendant was found innocent." And I think 95% of reporters don't know the difference between robbery and burglary.


Good historical reason for the first one -- if a telegram or teletype was garbled, or a radio transmission faded, a "not guilty" verdict could appear to be a guilty verdict, leaving newspapers open to libel judgments. The virtue of "innocent" is although it is imprecise (prosecution failed to prove guilt, not establish innocence), it can never be mistaken for "guilty."

True enough that journalists think that larceny is the only possible felony element of burglary. But calling rapists and home invaders "burglars" would simply confuse the readership.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Almost Ali said...

What I find amazing is that people - apparently lots of people - go to events/venues that block/lock/bolt the restrooms.

Am I reading this right, or are non-native New Yorkers even easier to herd/drive/intimidate than I ever imagined?

P.S. I grew up in NYC, and if they tried such stunts back then, they'd get their heads handed to them in short order.

Ann Althouse said...

"One of my ancestors attended Trinity Church before the Revolution."

One of my ancestors is buried there. His name is Robert Fulton.

Ann Althouse said...

"Parents with small children and pregnant women have a sense of entitlement."

When we were in NYC the last time, we went to the Whitney Museum, where there was a requirement to check large bags and backpacks and a line to the coat check. A woman with a child wanted to go in with her large bag and yelled at the guard. She reasoned: "I only have 1 hour with my child!"

Belkys said...

prosecution failed to prove guilt, not establish innocence
Defendant is presumed innocent ,if you fail to prove guilty the presumption becomes iure et de iure.
I know american lawyers talk that way but they are way wrong

Clyde said...

Ann, the smokers in your story were the rude ones. Their right to emit noxious substances ends where other people's breathing begins. Smoking is like other nasty vices: It should be indulged in only among consenting adults, in private. I'm very happy to live in Florida where smoking is not permitted in any public building.

Even in those long-ago days of 1982, a polite smoker would ask, "Do you mind if I smoke?" and if the answer was "yes," then he or she would refrain from doing so.

Ralph L said...

Mine is Benjamin Moore. Some of his relatives are buried there, but I don't know their names (my sister briefly had the geneaology bug). He also lived in Quebec City in the 1760's.

Many years ago, I drove through SE Person Co. half-heartedly looking for Mt Tirzah, his house (which still stands, but the owners ran off my cousin). There was an old sign for a housing development called "General Moore's Mountain." Fearing a trailer park, I drove on.

Trooper York said...

Sixty......... seriously doood....spelling mistakes and fucked up grammer is my personal style....especially when I am multitaksing...selling bloomers...watching the Giants ....and ranting about people peeing on the floor.

ndspinelli said...

Belkys,

I can always tell when attorneys are in full bullshit mode[as opposed to the usual 60-80% bullshit mode] when they use Latin. Ipso facto...

And, having been involved in numerous trials, the only verdicts in criminal cases I've heard from the foreman[er..foreperson, although it seems to almost always be a man in civil and criminal trials] are "guilty or "not guilty."

Ralph L said...

The Robert Fulton, or any ol' Robert Fulton?

ironrailsironweights said...

Next time I suggest she drop her pants and pee in whatever location is most convenient for her.

YouPorn has an entire category of videos like that, and ... oh, never mind.

Peter

ironrailsironweights said...

But the best place name is a favorite of ironrailsironweights - Bushy Fork.

I'm checking the directions on Map Quest.

Peter

Gary Rosen said...

You know why New Yawkers are so rude - it's da Joooooos!! .. oh wait, Trinity Church?!?!? um, er, they must be ball-licking Christian Zionists, yeah that's the ticket.

Skyler said...

One might grumble about being asked not to smoke. One might even insist on smoking. But it is never allowed to leave anyone, especially a woman on the side of the road at night. If the woman is pregnant then only the most depraved person would do that.

Even if the pregnant woman were screaming to be let out of the car, then it is still only permitted to stop someplace safe and wait to ensure she has other transportation arranged.

Those smokers should have been soundly whipped.

Skyler said...

Another point. Everywhere I've ever lived the building codes require restrooms in quantity suitable for the business being operated. There is a public interest in ensuring that businesses that attract crowds provide for human waste produced in that crowd. Otherwise people will urinate on the street. We were supposed to be past that stage of civilization. I suspect she has a reasonable tort.

former law student said...

There is big problem with these giant fucking mega strollers.

Having come back from the farmers' market in a moderate state of fume (traffic, road construction, lack of parking), my wife's biggest irritant was the woman who tried to bull a stroller "the size of a Smart car" through the aisle crowded with shoppers and gawkers. She suggested that leaving the tot home with a responsible adult -- perhaps even the father -- would benefit one and all.

Trooper York said...

Well then you have these two seaters. I mean if you have twins that's fine. But sometime one of the kids is about thirteen or something. Let the little bastard walk for crying out loud.

Actually let the big bastard walk.

Yuppie puppies are the worst.

Michael McNeil said...

There are certain former defendants who uniquely are affirmatively innocent rather than being simply “not guilty”; and they are the three young lacrosse players at Duke who were accused of gang rape. The state attorney general so declared them (which basically is unheard of hitherto) after investigating the case.

traditionalguy said...

Intentional Infliction of Bladder Distress? Trinity Church must be a post-apostasy congregation. The Episcopal guys used to be more traditional in their beliefs. I remember my uncle Frank (Mother's uncle)was Bishop of the Diocese of Bethlehem for 30 years until 1953, and he was a great guy. But somewhere the seminaries started turning out men trained in Freud and in agnostic philosophy. So don't judge Christians by Episcopalians.

kentuckyliz said...

Ann, the story of your "Christian" friends is horrible. I hope they aren't people you liked and esteemed and whose good opinion you wanted. They are capital A Assholes. I'm a Christian saying so. :-p

kentuckyliz said...

And yes I had to wait while a perfectly able-bodied young twentysomething loaded her groceries into her car, parked in the handicap spot, and she had no hangtag. A lot of people feel entitled regardless of other people's needs. I can barely hobble around but she's 23 and blond and cute and gosh darn it it's just too far to walk!

Trooper York said...

Well I always thought that blonds were mentally challenged?

Don’t discriminate against the mentally handicapped

JAL said...

Yeah well, some would argue that NY City Episcopleans in 1982 weren't Christians to start with.

The behavior was certainly bizarre and very cruel.

Please accept my apologies from the 3rd degree. My great aunt's husband was the organist at Trinity in the early 20th century.

Never thought to ask my dad if they are buried there.

Mom and Dad were Episcopaleans of the charismatic slant in the 80s and 90s. THEY would not have left you by the side of the road Professor. My mom, who is alive, apologizes also. (If Dad had seen you by the side of the road he would have picked you up and at least taken you home -- if not to the "retreat" [cough cough].)

As for needing to pee after public events in NYC ... maybe Mayor Bloomberg is trying to save water too.

JAL said...

Like Ralph L:

The Robert Fulton?

How steamy!

wv faulte
The establishment honchos were rude to a faulte.

Paddy O said...

And with a little aside, Althouse gives her commentariat a very interesting insight.

What's interesting about that aside also is that every committed Christian I've known, for the most part, would have said it was wrong for someone to be smoking at all, so you were the holy one of the bunch. No room in the van for the young pregnant women, who was chastised by the religious zealots.

Ralph L said...

JAL, I expect their graveyard filled up in the 19th century. That area has been the most sought after real estate in the US for 200 years. People were just dying to go there.

mrs whatsit said...

Some impressive Christians were in that van. I hope some of them remember that and feel at least a little shame. Was that the end of your affiliation with whatever church organized the trip? I certainly hope so.

I, too, was pregnant in 1982 and can remember sitting through a meeting at about 8 months gone, unable to breathe because of the smoke from the cigarettes of every other person around the conference table but me. It was so long ago, and times were so different then, that it did not occur to me to ask them to put out the smokes until after the meeting -- and I couldn't open a window, because it was January in New England. All I did was put up with it as well as I could and flee as fast as I could when the meeting was over. I can't blame any of them, since I didn't speak up for myself. Just a few years later, I would have -- but by then, times for smokers were changing fast.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

"The kid in the stroller reaches out with his fucking chocolate smeared hands."....snort,snicker

jamboree said...

I understand how the person who made the nasty comment feels. Cities are for sex, greed, power, ego, ambition, fast lane. It's not the place to be pregnant or raise kids. Move to the suburbs, don't bring the suburbs to the city w/o expecting pushback. It's like blue staters who bring their ways to red states because they've already spoiled their areas.

When I was in city mode, the suburbs made me ILL. It was like an enormous, boring incubator. Just made me sick being around it. One huge nursery- little larva everywhere and everything revolved around them and their idiot eunuched parents. Hated it.

But when my time came, I moved to the suburbs - because that's what you need to do. You don't have kids in a sex shop. It's a sick move to raise kids in a city environment. The only ones who seem to try it are New Yorkers. You never see kids in LA or SF.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ralph L said...

I must have been thinking of the paint. My ancestor was Stephen Moore, 1734-1799. Trinity lists his parents John Moore and Francis Lambert Moore in a vault on the south side. Fulton is in the Livingston vault on the north side. Coincidentally, Benjamin Moore was asst. rector of the church 1775-1800, rector 1800-15, head of Columbia and briefly Bishop of NY.

Big Mike said...

I wonder what other vertebrate species doesn't try to protect pregnant females. I think they're all extinct.

AST said...

There isn't any duty to be altruistic is there?

madawaskan said...

Holy crap-just saw the "added".

They couldn't even wrap their brains around the fact that it would make you sick to your stomach?

Anyways-once I had about 8 cadets and others arguing me-8 to 1 on the "Christianity" of the Catholic Church.

They were goint to have me "reborn" on the spot or something. I actually felt sick and sorta pretended to go along.

I said excuse me for a minute-I gotta go to the bathroom.

Stretched the phone cord in there called Dad the fighter pilot-and he said-

"I'll be there in two minutes".

Hell to pay, baby.

madawaskan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madawaskan said...

Make that more than 8 to 1.

Eight guys backed by a bunch of the idiot girls that were in the "bible study" group with them, and the adult sponsors/leaders [what ever the hell they called themselves.]

*************************

Still I don't let that color my perspective of all religion and all of the religious, because guess who's there in the worst of situations, hell on Earth like Rwanda?

The religious. The Evangelicals, the ministries, the Catholics, the Mormons-I'm sure I've left some of the specific groups out-the Quakers-you get the point.

They have my respect and admiration.

Kirk Parker said...

Wow, Althouse, your story about the 1982 retreat was unbelieveable. Those women must have all been Howard Dean-style Christians! (Super-sized Bleah, if you don't get my drift.)

Methadras said...

The article is clearly written by a typical sausage slurping chelsea mouth breather who hates vaginas and the fact that he could swim in an ocean of semen and he could never get impregnated either. Some homos make the most jealous cunts.

former law student said...

You never see kids in LA or SF.

I see kids in SF all the time. Try being in Chinatown when the kids from Notre Dame des Victoires get out of school.

Five years ago (the only data I could easily find) there were 57K students in San Francisco Unified.

Synova said...

The person I thought "self-indulgent" was the pissy complainer.

It's sort of like this... I really don't think that anyone, ANYONE, has an inherent right to avoid unlovely people. Keep them out of sight!

And that includes children and that includes pregnant ladies and that includes people in wheelchairs and the elderly and handicapped and deformed.

The idea that inconvenient people should leave, go someplace else... that's an expression of an attitude of entitlement.

(Sure, yes, some strollers get ridiculous but they are most handy for keeping small kids *out* of your stuff. Used to be, BTW, that a parent could leave their kid in the "tram" outside of a store, keep an eye through the window, and do some shopping... that will get you arrested now.)

Steve said...

"Ain't No Place to Pee on Mardi Gras Day" is a very lively song by the New Orleans group The Wild Linoleums. The baby in her tummy would dance to that tune.