Althouse: The state and the kid's lemonade stand.

August 5, 2010

The state and the kid's lemonade stand.

Cute girl sells lemonade, state says not without a $120 license.

59 comments:

Larry Davis said...: Common sense is not all that common.; 8/5/10, 5:05 PM
Anonymous said...: It was actually Kool-Aid, not real lemonade, so people were only buying it to help the cute little girl.; 8/5/10, 5:08 PM
Unknown said...: The government should take a flying leap...; 8/5/10, 5:08 PM
chickelit said...: Answers 1 and 2 depend on whether they sell caramel corn.; 8/5/10, 5:08 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "It was actually Kool-Aid, not real lemonade.."

When's the last time a lemonade stand kid actually made the lemonade with real lemons?

And when's the last time that kid washed her hands? Was it after the last time she wiped her nose?; 8/5/10, 5:11 PM
traditionalguy said...: Ah ha. Another artifact of time. The traditional ways of life are now all revoked. The kid is only another "small" business person...and she has not gotten the required fascist permission to operate based upon her paying Backsheesh to the local Lords of business.; 8/5/10, 5:12 PM
Gahrie said...: Come on ..do we really want to live in a world where little girl's can't sell lemonade on the sidewalk?

Isn't there a point where the most dedicated leftist will sit up and say...."Hey, wait a minute......"?; 8/5/10, 5:14 PM
AllenS said...: Well, out here in Jesusland. There are vegetable stands everywhere. Most of the time, nobody is minding the store, and it's on the honor system, sometimes, children are there.; 8/5/10, 5:16 PM
X said...: The government should cut back on surplus health inspectors in these times of dire public finances. If you've got enough health inspectors to shut down lemonade stands, you're not exactly short of money.; 8/5/10, 5:17 PM
traditionalguy said...: OK, this danger to public health must learn that government dummies always win, unless bribes are paid. There will be bribes! The government by design works 7% for our protection and 93% for paying for its own lifestyle.; 8/5/10, 5:18 PM
Skeptical said...: (1) If it were a 30 year old selling the lemonade, then no one would have a problem with the demand for a permit.

(2) A 30 year old is less likely to deliver contaminated lemonade to the public than a kid is

therefore, etc.; 8/5/10, 5:18 PM
Larry Davis said...: Fox news is reporting that the government officials have apologized to the little girl and are going to change the rules.

Ann, she was using hand sanitizer and a scoop to pick up the ice.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/05/oregon-county-apologies-year-old-girl-saying-lemonade-stand/; 8/5/10, 5:18 PM
chickelit said...: When's the last time a lemonade stand kid actually made the lemonade with real lemons?

Chez moi that would be last month. Kids made me plant my own tree but it hasn't prioduced much yet.; 8/5/10, 5:20 PM
Phil 314 said...: i love the protest idea run by an anarchist.

Maybe at the next G20, instead of riots and broken glass, we'll have...

lemonade stands

When life gives you lemons,

suck it up and pay the fine!; 8/5/10, 5:22 PM
Original Mike said...: This can't be real. Nobody is this stupid.

I suspect Brietbart.; 8/5/10, 5:22 PM
former law student said...: The little girl was not selling it in front of her house; her mom took her to the local art fair.

I would have no problem even if she sold it from in front of another person's house on the way to the art fair. But once there, she looks like any other vendor. Farmers' kids weigh out produce at farmers' markets -- the expectation that they are helping out their folks.; 8/5/10, 5:25 PM
Phil 314 said...: Isn't there a point where the most dedicated leftist will sit up and say...."Hey, wait a minute......"?

AND LATER

The little girl was not selling it in front of her house; her mom took her to the local art fair.

I would have no problem even if she sold it from in front of another person's house on the way to the art fair. But once there, she looks like any other vendor.

It appears the answer is "No"; 8/5/10, 5:29 PM
chickelit said...: Isn't Portland one of those Wiccan-friendly, child-unfriendly towns?

Color me unsurprised.; 8/5/10, 5:30 PM
former law student said...: Yeah a seven year old made that sign.

Sounds more like mom found a way to exploit her kid to make some under-the-table cash.; 8/5/10, 5:36 PM
Franco said...: We have to teach our kids business basics if we want them to succeed. When my 11 year old sets up a lemonade stand I charge her for the ice, the lemonade and the plastic cups, along with a rental fee for the table and a labor fee for my carrying it to and from the street. She should also pay any fees demanded by the local authorities. Any profit she makes is hers to keep minus any taxes and FICA she owes. This gives kids a healthy idea of what running a small business is really about.; 8/5/10, 5:37 PM
Michael Haz said...: When's the last time a lemonade stand kid actually made the lemonade with real lemons?

It's a kid's lemonade stand, not Whole Foods.

And when's the last time that kid washed her hands? Was it after the last time she wiped her nose?

Look, if you don't like the circumstances, then don't do the alms-giving. It's that simple.

Others, myself included, would buy a glass of lemonade, if for no other reason than to encourage and reward good and industrious behavior exhibited by that kid.

Do you remember the story about Kevin Costner during the Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary party in Milwaukee a few years back? Costner and a buddy rode their Harleys to Milwaukee for the event. Just two guys, no publicists, agents or anyone else.

They took a ride through the Milwaukee suburbs one afternoon, just sightseeing. Costner saw a mentally disabled kid selling cold drinks in his front yard and stopped. He bought everything the kid had, then spent an hour or so with the kid, throwing a football in the front yard, talking about motorcycles, letting the kid sit on his Harley.

The kid's mom came out to see who the stranger was who was playing with her kid. Costner introduced himself as "Kevin", no last name.

The mom figured out who he was and wanted to call the local news paper, the neighbors, etc. Costner said no, that he just wanted to thank and reward the kid for doing something good and spend some time with him. He also told the mom "It's not about me, it's about your son."

The mom took a photo and told the local newspaper about the Costner encounter the next day.

Costner did a classy and selfless thing. Snubbing and criticizing kids who are doing something productive is very unclassy.; 8/5/10, 5:44 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: You can't make cookies for old people at nursing homes without a food handler's permit.

Screwtape approves:

I heard the other day that in that country a man could not, without a permit, cut down his own tree with his own axe, make it into planks with his own saw, and use the planks to build a toolshed in his own garden.

fls, how much money do you think that little girl could have possibly made? Yet you accuse her mother of exploiting her for under-the-table cash?; 8/5/10, 6:03 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: By the way, do we remember this, in San Francisco?

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-06-04/news/17208451_1_larry-moore-shoeshine-man-city-housing

He sleeps under a bridge, washes in a public bathroom and was panhandling for booze money 11 months ago, but now Larry Moore is the best-dressed shoeshine man in the city. When he gets up from his cardboard mattress, he puts on a coat and tie. It's a reminder of how he has turned things around.

In fact, until last week it looked like Moore was going to have saved enough money to rent a room and get off the street for the first time in six years. But then, in a breathtakingly clueless move, an official for the Department of Public Works told Moore that he has to fork over the money he saved for his first month's rent to purchase a $491 sidewalk vendor permit.

The City of San Francisco prefers that bums remain bums...; 8/5/10, 6:07 PM
former law student said...: Our lemonade stand was in front of our house -- a 100% kid creation and implementation, except my mother provided the lemons, sugar, and Dixie cups.

We did not think to set up camp in a high traffic area. We were playing in our yard.

The next day we worked on something else.; 8/5/10, 6:07 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: So, fls, you admit that you think it's right for the city to shake down little girls, and that their mothers are probably just trying to exploit them?

Is somebody pretending to be you, to make fun of you, or is it really you?; 8/5/10, 6:11 PM
MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...: The government should make her get a license, force her to get health insurance for herself and her employees, mandate she ne subject to periodic state health inspections, force her customers not to smoke while drinking their refreshing beverage while in the vicinity of her stand, and then the government should take 40% of whatever profits remain after complying with those regulations so it can be re-distributed to the neighborhood kids who lack to ambition and drive to compete against her.; 8/5/10, 6:18 PM
The Dude said...: In a related story, 3 died after contracting E. coli from an unlicensed drink stand. Film at 11...; 8/5/10, 6:18 PM
shirley elizabeth said...: When did we start trusting what strangers from the other side of the country give us in packages over what our neightbors offer out of their kitchen? I remember in elementary school I wasn't allowed to bring homemade cupcakes for my birthday but could bring some refined something some company produced.; 8/5/10, 6:20 PM
former law student said...: Gabriel -- Mom is clearly running this enterprise, by making the kid wait a month to open her stand, not letting the kid make her own sign (It's OK, honey, you can color in my sign with your CRAYONS), and taking her to a monthly art market where all the other vendors have licenses and permits, instead of just letting her set up in front of their house. The kid's only input was that she wanted a lemonade stand -- all the other ideas came from Mom.; 8/5/10, 6:21 PM
Tom DeGisi said...: I was hoping to vote for:

The people should have hoisted the government officials up a liberty pole and pelted them with the squeezed lemons and should buy the lemonade if they actually want lemonade.

But then I read this:

> Fox news is reporting that the government officials have apologized to the little girl and are going to change the rules.

So that's pretty good.

Yours,
Tom; 8/5/10, 6:22 PM
Synova said...: All street vendors, bake sales, and other individuals should be free to sell food, buyer and eater beware. The government can butt-out and stop worrying so much about getting their cut of the action.

But what do I know. I bought food from third world street vendors and ate it.

"And when's the last time that kid washed her hands? Was it after the last time she wiped her nose?"

The person too stupid to figure this out on their own wouldn't have enough of a brain stem to purchase Kool-Aid from a child.; 8/5/10, 6:34 PM
Synova said...: "...a monthly art market where all the other vendors have licenses and permits,.."

Still shouldn't involve the government. But anyone reserving a spot at a art or farmers market or whatever should have the same rules.; 8/5/10, 6:38 PM
former law student said...: I just noticed another thing -- the mother and daughter live a half hour away by car. I guess I could have asked my mom to drive me to the Loop to set up my lemonade stand, but she never would have gone for it.; 8/5/10, 6:38 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: This is another example of government run amok. is it any wonder the term is spelled bureaucRats?; 8/5/10, 6:40 PM
Phil 314 said...: And in a related story; 8/5/10, 6:52 PM
Will said...: I would have voted for the crowd kicking the health inspectors off the premises.; 8/5/10, 7:02 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: This reminds me, I was half watching an episode of Bobby Flay's Throwdown with sound muted. Apparently they were preparing for a coconut cake contest. The contestant was being profiled at home preparing a coconut cake with his 4 yr.old (?) son. The boy was a little doll. With his hands in his hair. Then his dad, the chef, instructs the boy to pat the toasted coconut onto the side of the frosted cake.

mmmmm ptew ptew ptew mmmmm toasted coconut flakes and hair. What's not to like?

But come on. It's the world we live in. Have you noticed? It's positively filthy.; 8/5/10, 7:07 PM
Michael said...: Our world is mad. Completely. Worrying about whether a kid washed her hands or sneezed into the Kool Aid or the mom helped out or the government got its cut. Jesus, I think my head is going to explode. The playground down the street has been completely remodeled to remove the long chains from the swings (much too high) and the bark has been replaced with bits of rubber and the metal jungle gym is now of nice rounded wood. Grown ups are complete pussies. The kids cannot do a fucking thing without total supervision. Without wearing uniforms. Without adult referees. The backstop is coming down because baseballs are too hard. Somebody could get hurt. An accident occurs in the Gulf. All drilling must stop. Somebody can get hurt. Some body might get a fucking cold.; 8/5/10, 7:30 PM
John Burgess said...: So, why all the poll-hating on free enterprise? Kids need encouragement to become capitalists, at least to be re-affirmed in their natural inclinations.; 8/5/10, 8:01 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "Ann, she was using hand sanitizer and a scoop to pick up the ice."

Oh, great. Non-food goop is getting in the drink. Mucus and gelled alcohol. Yechhh.; 8/5/10, 8:16 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "So, why all the poll-hating on free enterprise? Kids need encouragement to become capitalists, at least to be re-affirmed in their natural inclinations."

Clearly, the poll has an option for you. But I can't tell *which* one is is. I hope it's the second.; 8/5/10, 8:17 PM
garage mahal said...: Yeah I pulled #2. In the poll.; 8/5/10, 8:21 PM
Synova said...: "I just noticed another thing -- the mother and daughter live a half hour away by car. I guess I could have asked my mom to drive me to the Loop to set up my lemonade stand, but she never would have gone for it."

We never lived in a location good for a lemonade stand so I just never let my kids have one.

Win, win!

Unfortunately we also live somewhere where no one needs lawns mowed or leaves raked. So they couldn't do those childhood jobs either.

(Seriously, the landscape style is called "Southwest Natural.")

And these days parents expect babysitters to be adults or have Red Cross life-saving babysitter classes.; 8/5/10, 8:28 PM
Cedarford said...: Too much government. Somehow, neighborhoods managed to sell stuff and even food items for most of our history without officious angry little female factotums touting their clipboards and reg copies around. Scowling at the stupid general public having fun and not understanding all the regulations and fees are there to protect their health and safety from their ignorance of PH Act 221 section 187 reg 3A, 12, and part 24 subsection C.

Or even child "disease vectors" face a 500 dollar fine.

Unbeknowest to these food nazis, the vendor community regulates itself pretty well. Kids get slack but you can bet the competitors will drop a dime on a rival vendor who tries being in the business without playing by the rules the rest agree amongst themselves to abide by.

We may well need the day when we fight back against unelected bureaucrats adding a new regulation a day and unelected court officials overturning elections.

It would have been salutory for a mob to have beaten those two food nazis. To end up crawling away trailing blood and broken teeth. Violence is about the only way left to fight against oppressive public officials.; 8/5/10, 9:12 PM
Skyler said...: If the seven year old were on the street corner next to her home, then her neighbors would be the appropriate regulators.

But if the seven year old wants to operate at the county fair, she has to do what anyone else would do. Good grief, this is a no-brainer.; 8/5/10, 9:22 PM
Mark said...: "And when's the last time that kid washed her hands? Was it after the last time she wiped her nose?"

What, you don't want to work out your immune system? It's all one body.; 8/5/10, 9:56 PM
Kev said...: The government should cut back on surplus health inspectors in these times of dire public finances. If you've got enough health inspectors to shut down lemonade stands, you're not exactly short of money.

Well said. Let's cut out about 50% of all bureaucrats while we're at it; we don't really need them, and we definitely don't want them. Want to save public money? There's your answer.; 8/6/10, 1:48 AM
West Coast Independent said...: I pulled #1 Because years ago when my oldest son was 5 years old he set up a lemonade stand on the corner and sold lemonade, cookies, and Pokémon cards didn’t want (and no one else did either). And what do you know, in less than two hours he had cleared over $40. So whenever my boys needed a little extra money they would sell lemonade and my neighbors would buy a glass and a cookie.
And so, as a way to thank them, I always stop at ANY lemonade stand and buy a glass (and drink it) with a smile ; 8/6/10, 4:24 AM
DaveW said...: When's the last time a lemonade stand kid actually made the lemonade with real lemons?

Last weekend.

A kid came by the house while I was in the garage and asked if he could mow the grass. I do it myself but it is so unusual to have a kid do that nowadays I told him if he came back today I'd let him do it. We'll see if he shows up.

I told my wife about it and she told me she had stopped and bought lemonade from a little girl the same day. She said the mother was helping her, watching over the operation, and that it was fresh squeezed lemonade.

I'm not positive why kids don't do this stuff nowadays, I suspect they don't have to, that they get pocket money from their parents. My opinion is they should be encouraged when they take the initiative.

Taking a wild guess, I'm thinking if that kid shows up today it will end up being more work for me than if I had just done it myself. Still, it's a good deed and it should be entertaining.; 8/6/10, 6:15 AM
lemondog said...: Object lesson. Capitalism come to Portland.

In 2008 Oregon voted overwhelmingly for Marxism. So what's the problem.

Hey kid, quit yer sniveling. Seven or 70, da law is da law.

Gov. candidate Dudley says Oregon unfriendly to business

Slightly OT:

CNN) -- Legislatures in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, Guam, the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico met in 2009, leading to the enactment of 40,697 laws, many of which take effect January 1.; 8/6/10, 7:02 AM
Shanna said...: Typical and complete nonsense.; 8/6/10, 8:17 AM
Known Unknown said...: Our beloved host apparently doesn't have any stomach acid.

And is a fragile little flower prone to food-borne sicknesses.; 8/6/10, 8:35 AM
Shanna said...: (1) If it were a 30 year old selling the lemonade, then no one would have a problem with the demand for a permit.

(2) A 30 year old is less likely to deliver contaminated lemonade to the public than a kid is

therefore, etc.

1.) When you buy lemonade from a 7 year old you know what you are getting and are not expecting restaurant quality health precautions

2.) How likely is it that you are going to be contaminated by koolaid?

(and 3.) you know mom or dad probably helped anyway); 8/6/10, 8:40 AM
X said...: in the future kids will set up bureaucracy stands selling compliance forms, regulation handbooks, and a promise not to call code compliance about the weeds growing on the side of your house.; 8/6/10, 8:56 AM
former law student said...: he set up a lemonade stand on the corner

Bravo, WCI.

I note you did not drive him a half-hour away from home so he could set up at a street fair with high foot traffic.

Further, your neighbors know who you are, and who your kid is. They're happy to brighten the kid's day.

In a way, what the mother did reminds me of the adolescents parachuted into my neighborhood to sell magazines, or even candy bars, supposedly to fund some school trip. You ask them where they live and where they go to school, and the two never jibe. I'm happy to help a neighbor, too, but these kids aren't from the neighborhood.; 8/6/10, 9:27 AM
former law student said...: Here's something else along these lines to get outraged about: the city of San Francisco is evicting Ike's Sandwich Shop essentially because it is too popular.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/06/BAFM1EPM3G.DTL; 8/6/10, 12:11 PM
MarkW said...: My kids, when they were 8 or 9, had a pretty sweet deal -- they pulled their wagon a block over and set up a drink stand in from of the entrance gate to a popular local park. They could have cleaned up if they'd been more ambitious, but they only sold drinks until they'd cleaned us out of soda, bottled water, and ice and they had enough cash for more Pokemon cards.; 8/6/10, 1:46 PM
dave1310 said...: I never drink or eat the offerings at child-run food stands. But I buy a portion, anyhow. They certainly deserve support for a degree of initiative.
Yes, we do pay health inspectors to assure safety of consumables, but that comes from ... inspecting? I don't think a query about a $120 license is as effective in assuring public health as maybe taking a few minutes to explain cleanliness, hand-washing, etc. to the young business people. That could have long term positive effects for everyone.
But, that is so close to doing the job as opposed to doing the title that I really don't see any large scale implementation of such common sense approaches.; 8/6/10, 9:45 PM
Tampa Travel and beyond... said...: Leave the kids alone! ...There should certainly be more concern about food safety and handling which comes from our national food growers, slaughterers and suppliers. Anyone ever watch the documentary FOOD INC.? If you eat chicken you have a world of problems to be concerned about! Enough said!...; 8/8/10, 10:09 AM

What to do about the kid's lemonade stand?
	The government should do nothing and people should buy the lemonade to encourage the child.
	The government should do nothing and people should buy the lemonade if they actually want lemonade.
	The government should do nothing and you should avoid the possibly contaminated lemonade.
	The government should treat it like any other food vendor to protect the public health.
	The government should regulate, but with gentle restraint.
	The government should ban the sale of food and drink by children.

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August 5, 2010

The state and the kid's lemonade stand.

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