May 19, 2010

"Worried" writes to a Salon advice columnist over her father's increasing right-winginess.

"This is not the man I grew up with. I think he fears a future he cannot control, and longs for a past that never existed. He is responding to this existential crisis with fear, anger and paranoia. I feel for his situation, but cannot respect the viewpoint it generates. We are at a point where we can barely speak about current events or politics without deeply offending one another. I feel I cannot reconcile myself to his beliefs, and I know it is profoundly changing our relationship. How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future? How do I bring back rationality, sensitivity and temperance into our discussions?"

Impressively, the advice columnist tells her she's asking the wrong question:
I think a better question to ask is, "How can I be closer to my father?" or "How can I accept him as a human being and seek his acceptance of me?"
It's really a terrible idea to have a political debate/argument with someone if your point of view is that they are irrational, insensitive, angry, fearful, etc. You can't convince him to change what he thinks by saying — essentially — his ideas are the product of his twisted mind. That's not an argument. It's just a counter-wave of emotion. And how could he possibly agree with you? He'd have to use that twisted mind to do it.
So I suggest you seek areas of commonality in nature or art, and in feeling rather than idea. Have some fun together. Build trust and enjoyment through shared experiences. Have patience. Be gentle.
Yeah, people learn how to avoid talking about politics if they or the person they are talking to isn't up for it. Is talking about politics really the main thing you should be doing with the people you want to love?

165 comments:

former law student said...

Take all the AM radios out of the house. Or have a TV repairman break the wire leading to the AM selector switch.

No Rush/Sean/Savage/Billo/Levin, no problem.

Original Mike said...

"How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future."

Jesus. I can't imagine what the problem is.

AllenS said...

Limbaugh is on 100.3 FM in the Twin Cities area.

Dear Worried,

Fuck off.

Joe said...


Take all the AM radios out of the house. Or have a TV repairman break the wire leading to the AM selector switch.

No Rush/Sean/Savage/Billo/Levin, no problem.


Cass is that you?

shoutingthomas said...

This is the stuff of King Lear.

The young want the old to die so that they can have the old folks' stuff.

As people are inclined to do, the young love to phrase this as a virtue.

mesquito said...

"How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive futute."

Someone needs therapy, and it ain't Pops.

edutcher said...

I love her line, "and longs for a past that never existed". How would she know? American History 101 - Why We're such a Rotten Country at Yale? The only thing missing is, "That's not the America I know".

Even better is, "How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future?. My God, this woman is a fugitive from "Rhinoceros" or the '36 Party convention at Nuremburg.

And finally, "He is responding to this existential crisis with fear, anger and paranoia." That's what they said before you got shipped to the gulag.

This woman has Obamania real bad.

OTOH, kudos to the Salon columnist. She is really trying to get this woman to see past her own ego and intolerance to understand that she has to relate to her father as another human being, not as an ideologue.

There's a message there for a few who hang out here, but, hopefully, they'll figure it out for themselves.

WV "scrotox" Something to rejuvenate ... Never mind.

Thorley Winston said...

I was going to say that Worried sounded like a conservative moby but after reading FLS’ initial comment, now I’m not so sure.

danielle said...

'Is talking about politics really the main thing you should be doing with the people you want to love?'

Huh ? I dont see where this conclusion comes from. What happened to seeking commonality in nature or art and in feeling, having fun together.

I dont think people -- even people who love each other, particularly in a parent-child -- have to agree on politics.

Jason said...

Former law stupid's first instinct is to silence opposing views.

Funny, that.

Scratch a libtard, you'll find a fascist.

shoutingthomas said...

I watched one of those History Channel documentaries about U.S. history the other night.

Subject: Chicago race riot, 1919. According to History Channel... all the fault of whites.

Whites were supposedly racist for fearing that blacks would move in and destroy their neighborhoods. Yet, that is exactly what happened.

The HC's choice to deliver a sliloquoy on the suject? The racist black gangster, Al Sharpton.

Joe said...

I dont think people -- even people who love each other, particularly in a parent-child -- have to agree on politics.

YES THEY DO! What if the old geezer is voting the “wrong”/non-inclusive/non-Progressive way? What if he’s voting for someone who opposes gay marriage/abortion/higher taxes/greater social spending/supports the war on terror or the War in Afghanistan??? These are EVIL positions, held by Evilllllll people! We MUST “save” our father from this evil and from falling into evil thought and therefore evil ways!!!!

Obama-Kenobi only you can save us!

New "Hussein" Ham said...

You missed a tag:

left-wing ideology

Original Mike said...

I don't talk to my parents about politics much. We don't agree much. So what? Why force them to contemplate how it was they came to raise such a right wing reactionary? I love them too much to do that.

Paul Bubel said...

Have him lobotomized, that's probably the only way the two of them will finally start seeing eye to eye on the politics front.


Other than that, she should probably grow up and realize that not everyone agrees with her.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

These Salon "questions" are so obviously faked it's hard to believe that you would link to it approvingly, Ann.

Are you that gullible?

GMay said...

How many times can FLS fall flat on his face in one day on this blog?

Trooper York said...

Gloria Bunker-Stivic: Daddy, swearing is a sign of a weak mind.
Archie Bunker: Ah, shut the hell up.
(All in the Family, 1971)

traditionalguy said...

It is a sadness and a waste of time to rage about what we cannot change. Still, watching and commenting upon the current crop of of political deceptions, and using our free speech, is a mild activity that even us clingers can enjoy. Yet this lady's question seems to be about facing an actual mental illness level she encounters in her father's fighting against a world conspiracy. That can also be the sign of a mind being controlled by the super conservatives who are also out in force today claiming theyn are leaders in battle, much like the Jim Jones cult and the John Birch cult tapped into a career preaching paranoia for personal enrichment. Even Rush Limbaugh, our reasonable teacher is finding himself overwhelmed by the more feisty warrior types like Beck and Coulter.

info said...

Quite frankly, avoiding such discussions is partly how we got into this mess. Fewer people understand what makes this country work and allowed for liberals to flourish...people are FINALLY waking up...deal with it!

Scott M said...

No Rush/Sean/Savage/Billo/Levin, no problem.

Come on, FLS, even you had to have seen the obligatory, "No Maddow/Matthews/Oberman, no problem" response to your lead-off.

It's not easy to get along with a family member that's so around the bend from your personal beliefs as the respondent makes it out to be. My grandfather, a life-long union member and Democrat party-line voter, was deeply, and I mean DEEPLY bigoted. Any conversation having anything to do with anything invariably came back to blaming it on blacks and hispanics. He wasn't crazy about Jews either.

Omaha1 said...

There are some people in my family with whom I don't discuss politics at all. If they bring it up I just change the subject. Family ties are way more important than politics, and there are lots of things you can enjoy together despite not agreeing on political matters.

This person just needs to drop it, I mean there have been hundreds of thousands of parents who had to listen to their college student children come home from school and blather on and on about fair trade coffee and sustainability and stupid gender theories, and somehow managed to go on with their lives together.

Comrade X said...

How do I bring back rationality, sensitivity and temperance into our discussions?.

the advice columnist is wrong. you need to air this out. explain to your dad how it's not fair for him to keep his 401k all to his greedy right-wing neocon self. he'll come around.

Original Mike said...

"Come on, FLS, even you had to have seen the mandatory, "No Maddow/Matthews/Oberman, no problem" response to your lead-off.

Fixed your post.

C. Sunstein

david7134 said...

If this gril is like many of those who my friends have to come to grips with, she would spout her progressive ideas to her father. She would indicate that we should give up our pensions for the unions, ask for higher taxes, ask for more government in our lives, reduce our freedoms to nill. Then she would want money to go on vacation and not understand why her parents are upset, despite the fact they have not had a vacation in 5 years.

Original Mike said...

Oh, I meant "voluntary".

Pogo said...

"How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future?"

Well, you can't.
So face it, you'll just have to shoot him.
To make an omelet, you need to break a few eggs.

Trooper York said...

Sonny: First of all, I respect you, Lorenzo, you're a stand-up guy and we're from the same neighbourhood, but don't ever talk to me like that again. I tell yor kid to go to school, to go to college...
Lorenzo: You don't understand: it's not what you say, it's what he sees, the clothes, the cars, the money, it's everything. He tried to throw away his baseball cards because he said Mickey Mantle will never pay the rent.
Sonny: [laughs] He said that to you? I don't believe this kid.
[They all laugh]
Lorenzo: That's not funny. Not when your kid has a bigger bank account than you.
Sonny: I offered you a job, you said "No" to me.
Lorenzo: That's right, and I say "No" now. Just leave my son alone, please.
Sonny: Hey!
[Stands up]
Sonny: Don't you see how I treat that kid? I treat him like he's my son.
Lorenzo: He ain't your son, he's MY son.
Sonny: He's what?
Lorenzo: He's MY son!
Sonny: Hey, get the fuck outta here!
Lorenzo: [Shoved by the gangsters towards the door] I'm not afraid of you.
Sonny: You should be.
Lorenzo: I know who you are, Sonny, I know what you're capable of, and I would never step out of line, you can ask anyone in the neighbourhood who knows me. But this time, you're wrong. You don't fool with a man's family. This is my son, not yours.
Sonny: What are you gonna do, fight me?
Lorenzo: You stay away from my son!
Sonny: Get outta here before I give you a fucking slap!
Lorenzo: You just stay away from my son!
Sonny: Go ahead!
Lorenzo: I don't care who you are! You stay away from my son!
[the gangsters force him out of the bar]
(A Bronx Tale, 1993)

Paul Zrimsek said...

The smart money says she ends up giving him a libertarian-paternalist voluntary nudge into a nursing home.

reader_iam said...

The letter- writer, who is in her mid-20s and expresses nostalgia for the relationship she had with her father during her growing-up days, appears not to consider the possibility that it is she who has moved away from what was shared. How unusual are both those things?

Pogo said...

And don't worry, dearie, with the decimation of Medicare, he won't be long for this world anyway.

Just wait for the next influenza outbreak and send him the mall.
Problem solved.

Comrade X said...

he's obviously an old white dude or she would have claimed racial minority status on her victim of oppression checklist. why doesn't he just die?

David said...

"I think he fears a future he can not control . . . "

Hope the daughter does not think she (or those she trusts) can control the future. Also hope she bases part of her planning on worst case scenarios.

Old Dad sounds pretty rational to me.

YoungHegelian said...

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that poor Dad, portrayed here as being to the right of the Hitler Youth, is probably something as mild as an Orange County Republican.

How do people like this young woman sleep at night? Doesn't she follow the polls and realize that a huge fraction of the country is as twisted as dear ole dad? Must be scary to live in fear of such a large part of the US.

If this woman ever comes across a real honest to god fascist, she's going to shit a brick. Or, fall in love with him, a la Sylvia Plath.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Dad needs to change his will and trusts and leave all of his money to the Home for Wayward Cats.

They will have a better sense of appreciation than this cunt of a daughter that he somehow failed in raising properly.

Maybe even a restraining order to keep her the Hell away from him.

Jeff said...

Remember that Village Voice column from a few years back, where they ranked the major conservative bloggers on a Dumb/Evil scale?

To a lefty, those are the only two options to explain why you don't agree with them.

Dumb.

Evil.

Either you're too dumb to know better, in which case you need to be properly "educated," or you're part of some evil greedy scheme and need to be destroyed.

No other possible reason.

Paul Snively said...

How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future.

One that is inclusive without including dissent from "progressivism," apparently. I wouldn't waste my breath talking with her, either.

But you're right: the advice columnist saw the way out of the dilemma. How about that: an advice columnist giving good advice.

former law student said...

Dad has to remove his head from the right-wing echo chamber, that's all.

Dad fits a pattern of the husbands of two women I knew. The husbands lost their jobs, and wound up listening to right-wing radio all day. Absorbing their rants changed their personalities, making them intolerable.

One woman divorced her Rush listener, but felt sorry for his unemployed ass and let him stay in the garage. The other woman just forbade any talk of politics in the house.

David said...

The advice giver actually says:

The damage done by Fox News, in concert with a failing educational system and a consumerist culture, may take decades to repair. I hope that you will courageously consider what role you can play in preserving a culture of liberal thought.

From where I sit, in a San Francisco cafe, there seems to be great reason for hope. All around me there seems to be a revolution among the young, something like a spiritual shift in response to deeply felt symptoms of planetary collapse and catastrophe.

But that's San Francisco. Then there are the many like your father who have been allowed, encouraged irresponsibly, to take a welcome leave of their senses and rant against reason.


What a hoot.

From where I sit . . . .

A San Francisco cafe . . .

Fox News and Failing Schools--the two great evils of our society.

Damn!

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Ever notice how often you see this from the lib side, but how infrequently you see it on the conservative. I'm pretty sure that Ask Prudie at Slate had almost the exact same letter last week (at least Salon didn't follow P's lead and advise that he needs medical attention). And note that it always includes the obligatory, unquestionable accusation of racism, with no explanation of whether racist means "actively attending KKK meetings" or "voted for McCain".

I see conservatives complain about their kids' liberalism all of the time, but they just sigh and hope they'll grow out of it, usually throwing in something about loving them anyway. Liberals must accuse of insanity or stupidity, and must demand control and change. No acceptance of differences, no points for life experience, no possibility of seeing the other side, or even trying to.

BTW, my dad's very conservative, but his parents are true blue lefties. Even though it's his parents, he still just shakes his head and lets it go (other than working in snide remarks when they complain about taxes).

- Lyssa

Joe said...

Dad has to remove his head from the right-wing echo chamber, that's all.

Yeah because it’s the “echo chamber” that’s seduced him. He couldn’t have become NON-Progressive on his own, via thought…..

You are really a parody of Progressive, right? Not a real one.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Dad has to remove his head from the right-wing echo chamber, that's all.

Dad is a grown up MAN who can do and think whatever he wants. It isn't any of his daughter's business what shows he listens to or what radio he tunes into. It isn't any of yours either.

Just because he doesn't agree with her left leaning (to say the least) views, doesn't make him a right wing nut.

Personally, my family is mostly liberals and very much so. I have made it clear to them that when we get together that we should not discuss politics. It only leads to arguments and bad feelings. There are plenty of other topics of conversation.

They aren't going to change my mind, and I have zero interest in trying to change theirs.

After the year that I and my husband got up and left in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner because they just would not stop, we all stick to this and when we get together. We have a good time.

If my daughter came up with the snotty arrogant attitude that this letter writer exudes, I would tell her to hit the bricks and not come back until she can respect my views.

You don't have to accept another person's political viewpoint.

From family, however, I demand and give respect for the ability to have differences and the wisdom to STFU about it.

michaele said...

I had the opposite happen with my elderly mother. She watched a lot of Chris Mathews and Olberman and it really had an effect.She grew to have sooo much hatred for George W. Bush. I started reading the Weekly Standard and listening to Rush and responded in a positive way to their take on things. A couple of years ago when we were having a discussion about Iraq, she actually said out loud that she sometimes was rooting for the terrorists. I was so aghast that I had to excuse myself and take a walk around the block. I reminded myself that she was old, she was my mother and to let it go.

Original Mike said...

@David - Just read the real response. I'm now thinking New Ham may have it right. This is a Penthouse Forum letter.

AllenS said...

Dear Worried,

I told you over and over, that if you married that former law student you'd end up dumber than Joe Biden, and it happened. Now, I want you and him to pack your bags and get out of my basement. No, you two can't use my computer anymore.

Dad

lyssalovelyredhead said...

FLS said: The husbands lost their jobs, and wound up listening to right-wing radio all day. Absorbing their rants changed their personalities, making them intolerable.

Are you sure that the experience of an extended period of being unable to make a living didn't have anything to do with either their personality change or their wives not liking them all that much anymore?

GMay said...

Liberals have to remove their heads from the left-wing echo chamber, that's all.

Liberals all fall into one pattern. They lose their jobs, and wind up trolling blogs from the basement of their parents who are trying to pay off their deadbeat son's student loans. Absorbing left-wing talking points changed their personalities, making them intolerable.

One liberal dropped out of law school, but felt sorry for his parents and lets them smoke some of his bud during the week. He usually just forbids any speech that doesn't fit the progressive narrative.

LarsPorsena said...

Old dad should tell her he's is writing a new will leaving everything he owns to Organizing for America. That should bring a smile to her face (not).

John Stodder said...

I am an independent, socially liberal woman in my mid-20s, currently in graduate school. My father is a retired civil servant and veteran of the Vietnam War.

If this was a 1970s made-for-TV movie, the father would end up on the roof of a building, firing bullets from his old Army rifle at a bunch of fresh-faced college students until his daughter, against police advice, got on the roof with him to try to convince him that love is better than hate and peace is better than violence.

At which point, he would see the error of his ways, choke out "I love you," but in the next moment, he would stumble off the roof and fall to his death.

The Vietnam War would be blamed.

The movie would have had a title like, "Generations Apart."

reader_iam said...

Say, does anyone remember those "True Confessions"-type tab-mags from days of yore?

TRO said...

Sounds like how my oldest son and I were during the latter part of the Bush years and during the 2008 campaign and the ultimate election of the worst president in history (Carter is going to have to move over).

We argued all the time. Well, I tried to use reason and facts, but he wasn't having any of it. It was all emotions for him. Hope, change, and all that stuff.

Since then he has graduated from college, managed to get a job, an apartment, and is now paying his own bills and his own taxes. And funny enough, his attitude has, if not changed, certainly moderated quite a bit. He never mentions Barry (something he did daily back then) and if The Won does come up in a conversation he just sighs and tries to move on to something . . . anything . . . else.

Not unusual among liberals these days, I think.

reader_iam said...

Speaking of "Penthouse Forum" and all.

LarsPorsena said...

"I am an independent, socially liberal woman in my mid-20s, currently in graduate school.."

'Independent' and 'in graduate school' are two mutually exclusive states of being.

AllenS said...

Penthouse had a forum letter column? Was it before or after the centerfold?

Freeman Hunt said...

Kudos to the advice columnist.

Shorter version of advice, "Get over yourself."

Alex said...

Dad has to remove his head from the right-wing echo chamber, that's all.

FLS has to remove his head from the left-wing echo chamber, that's all.

Chase said...

All of us like to believe that we have made our choices on politically charged issues with reason, logic and a valid moral foundation.

Add to that our life experience. Mine included "progessives" throughout my life who, as a general rule, keep far looser moral standards than I was comfortable with, mainly in relationship to the truth. Again, it's my experience, but also easily observed in every Main Stream outlet today - the livberal worldview is far more the ends justify the means than the conservative worldview. An that allows for an awful lot of lying. I do believe it's congenital in so many we today see as liberal leaders.

My favorite example pf this beiong pointed out:

I Believe" (Bill Clinton)by killed in Iraq journalist Michael Kelly.

Alex said...

One liberal dropped out of law school, but felt sorry for his parents and lets them smoke some of his bud during the week. He usually just forbids any speech that doesn't fit the progressive narrative.

That's a nightmarish future.

Mitch H. said...

No Rush/Sean/Savage/Billo/Levin, no problem.

No man, no problem, eh?

Alex said...

Dear old dad just needs to be "re-educated" in the correct, progressive thoughts.

edutcher said...

John Stodder said...

I am an independent, socially liberal woman in my mid-20s, currently in graduate school. My father is a retired civil servant and veteran of the Vietnam War.

If this was a 1970s made-for-TV movie, the father would end up on the roof of a building, firing bullets from his old Army rifle at a bunch of fresh-faced college students until his daughter, against police advice, got on the roof with him to try to convince him that love is better than hate and peace is better than violence.

At which point, he would see the error of his ways, choke out "I love you," but in the next moment, he would stumble off the roof and fall to his death.

The Vietnam War would be blamed.

The movie would have had a title like, "Generations Apart."


An ABC Movie of the Week. The daughter is played by Sally Field (between shots of Boniva) and poor old dad by someone like Darren McGavin.

That's so on the money,you are scaring me.

TRO said...

Sounds like how my oldest son and I were during the latter part of the Bush years and during the 2008 campaign and the ultimate election of the worst president in history (Carter is going to have to move over).

We argued all the time. Well, I tried to use reason and facts, but he wasn't having any of it. It was all emotions for him. Hope, change, and all that stuff.

Since then he has graduated from college, managed to get a job, an apartment, and is now paying his own bills and his own taxes. And funny enough, his attitude has, if not changed, certainly moderated quite a bit. He never mentions Barry (something he did daily back then) and if The Won does come up in a conversation he just sighs and tries to move on to something . . . anything . . . else.

Not unusual among liberals these days, I think.


You been channeling Mark Twain again, haven't you?

Hoosier Daddy said...

I think he fears a future he cannot control, and longs for a past that never existed. He is responding to this existential crisis with fear, anger and paranoia.

This is exactly how I see global warming nutballs.

I feel I cannot reconcile myself to his beliefs,

Most liberals have difficulty accepting common sense and reason. This isn't anything new.

How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future?

See if he's amenable to mind alterning drugs since that's about the only thing that makes contemporary liberalism make sense.

How do I bring back rationality, sensitivity and temperance into our discussions?

Become a conservative.

GMay said...

"FLS has to remove his head from the left-wing echo chamber, that's all."

I'm starting to like FLS more than I already did. I already thought his daily offerings offered extremely valuable insight into the misfirings of a synaptically-challenged mind.

But it's when he makes shit up from scratch like...this story...or informs us that he's a registered Republican. These are the nuggets I've grown to cherish in such a short time.

former law student said...

I suspect part of the problem is that Dad, the retired civil servant, has no one to talk to other than his daughter. And the only things he's got to talk about are the right-wing ideas he's been absorbing with relish.

Dad has to get out of the house more. Why not suggest he join a Tea Party group?

Freeman Hunt said...

Read rest of advice. I take back my kudos.

Liberal tolerance in action.

Mej said...

This letter and the response may be the funniest thing I have read in a long time. The Onion needs to take a page from these jokers. "I do not want to ignore the fact that crazy political ideas are dangerous, and that lives are at stake" Reach out to Dad, love him, find new interests. But do not forget he is a danger to society.

GMay said...

"Since then he has graduated from college, managed to get a job, an apartment, and is now paying his own bills and his own taxes. And funny enough, his attitude has, if not changed, certainly moderated quite a bit. He never mentions Barry (something he did daily back then) and if The Won does come up in a conversation he just sighs and tries to move on to something . . . anything . . . else.

Not unusual among liberals these days, I think."


Nor the silly Republicans who voted for him. My best friend happens to be one of the fewer and fewer people who admit this. Whenever he and I talk about politics these days, all I have to do is quote Obama back to him.

No more need to dissect and analyze. Just letting the man speak for himself. Thankfully my friend made a giant step a few weeks back. He very reluctantly admitted that he was beginning to regret his decision to vote for His Messiahness.

It's a small step, but he's well on his way to recovery now I think.

jayne_cobb said...

So let me get this straight:

-Fox News and failing public schools are the primary sources of our nation's troubles,

and

-All cities should be like San Francisco,


Had I read this anywhere else I would have thought it was a parody.

Joe said...


Dad has to get out of the house more. Why not suggest he join a Tea Party group?

Prolly already has and a militia, too.

Tuesdays we meet at Old Country Buffet to draw up bomb plans.

GMay said...

Yeah, I had to go read the rest of the letter too. The usual reflexive "But, but, but FOX!....dangerous....lunatics" braindead argument from emotion like FLS spouted right off the bat.

Damnit all Professor, why did you leave that out? Here I thought someone at Salon was capable of offering up something other than the usual lefty bigotry and paranoia.

GMay said...

"Tuesdays we meet at Old Country Buffet to draw up bomb plans."

Clearly your area is in need of a Cracker Barrel.

TMink said...

"It's really a terrible idea to have a political debate/argument with someone if your point of view is that they are irrational, insensitive, angry, fearful, etc."

Yes indeed. And it is prudent to cut off meaningful discussion once the other party has demonstrated that they are incapable of accepting and agreeing with you on any minor point.


She will miss him when he is gone. But it is likely too much to ask for her to blame herself and change.

Trey

ABP said...

One of my grandmothers won't visit because my sister and I have gone right-wing. I swear I only called her a communist (which is, literally, true) once.

k*thy said...

I'm a big fan of Cary Tennis and glad he's back.

As for the writer, like her, my father and I sit on different ends of the spectrum (and not just politics). I see a lot of myself, at her age, in her letter (except for the once being close, part). Funny how a few more trips around the block and a dose of acceptance can smooth over the rough edges of relationship with a history of sparks. My hard-learned advice: You have a choice - either dig in further with your shovel of pride and self-righteousness or put it down and find some common ground.

Quayle said...

Says the virus: "How can I help this CD4+ T cell embrace a progressive, inclusive future?"

John Stodder said...

An ABC Movie of the Week. The daughter is played by Sally Field (between shots of Boniva) and poor old dad by someone like Darren McGavin.

Excellent.

Darren McGavin for sure. But I was thinking Karen Valentine for the daughter.

DADvocate said...

How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future? How do I bring back rationality, sensitivity and temperance into our discussions?

She could have simply asked how she could force upon her father the knowledge that she's right and he's wrong. And, how to explain that the "inclusive" part of "a progressive, inclusive future" doesn't include his ideas or concern, but rather he should blindly follw the progressive way.

Of course, as fls points out strictly censoring speech is the way to start.

The advice columnist does a respectable job.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

My hard-learned advice: You have a choice - either dig in further with your shovel of pride and self-righteousness or put it down and find some common ground.

Excellent advice.

Trooper York said...

Kay Lenz is the daughter.

Jan-Michel Vincent is her boyfriend.

Darleen Carr is her best friend.

Sada Thompson plays her mom the college professor who married the troubled vet.

Vic Morrow as the dad.

Brian said...

I can sympathize with this woman's plight. I'm center-right, with some liberal tendencies, and my dad is a Fox News/Glenn Beck/Rush guy, totally right wing.

I only hope Dad can get through to me and help me see the light.

/snark off

Trooper York said...

Oh and Richard Masur as the little league coach who molested her.

Marlo Thomas as her Womans Studies professor who taught her how to be an empowered feminist who can stand up and fight the power.

Earl Holliman as the cop trying to negotiate the hostage crises.

Steve Forest as the leader of the SWAT team who wants to shoot him.

Adrian Zmed as the young cop who has to take the fatal shot.

LarsPorsena said...

"Kay Lenz is the daughter.

Jan-Michel Vincent is her boyfriend.

Darleen Carr is her best friend.

Sada Thompson plays her mom the college professor who married the troubled vet.

Vic Morrow as the dad."

Perfect..but isn't there something for Bea Arthur?

Jeremy said...

Her father sounds exactly like the tea bagging fools who swarm to this site every day...after making sure Rush, Glenn and Sean are all in agreement with their daily wing nut drivel and denigration of our president.

Jeremy said...

Brian - "I only hope Dad can get through to me and help me see the light."

Try reading something instead of listening to your dad and the rest of the tea baggers.

Kirk Parker said...

"The damage done by Fox News"

Oh bullshit, this columnist is as bad as the correspondent's father! Where's the parallel concern with the damage done by ABCBSMSNBC? Where's the consternation over the disservice done to us by good old Uncle Walter?

Jeremy said...

jayne_cobb - You need to get out more.

Or maybe just try turning off Fox for a few days and read a book.

Jeremy said...

Pogo said..."And don't worry, dearie, with the decimation of Medicare, he won't be long for this world anyway."

Really?

Medicare is "decimated?"

But even if it were...you and the other tea baggers here won't take advantage anyway, right? Being a "big government" socialist thingie and all.

Duh.

Trooper York said...

Bea Arthur is her moms best friend, an English professor from New Orleans who teaches her about the poetry of Sappho and the man in the boat.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

rdkraus said...

Ah, Mr. Testicle Sucker is here.

What void must there be in his life that all he thinks about is sucking on testicles?

Hmmmm?

garage mahal said...

He very reluctantly admitted that he was beginning to regret his decision to vote for His Messiahness

Then the flash of this image entered his head, then shit his pants, did a spit take, and came to realize what a silly thought that was.

paul a'barge said...

She needs to get a hysterectomy and not breed.

The planet is gagging with Lib-tards. Hopefully she won't make any more.

prairie wind said...

So it sounds trite to say it, but the planet will still be here long after Glenn Beck, Barack Obama, Keith Olbermann and you and I and everyone else who is reading this are just memories, ashes, bones, fleeting thoughts and fading photographs.

Huh. That's weird. I would have guessed that Cary Tennis believes global warming is destroying the planet.

FormerTucsonan said...

Trooper York said...
Oh and Richard Masur as the little league coach who molested her.

Earl Holliman as the cop trying to negotiate the hostage crises.

Perfect! It's just not '70's TV without those two.

LarsPorsena said...

"Bea Arthur is her moms best friend, an English professor from New Orleans who teaches her about the poetry of Sappho and the man in the boat.

Not that there's anything wrong with that."

Excellent...now, how about a cameo for Abe Vigoda

LarsPorsena said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
GMay said...

"Then the flash of this image entered his head, then shit his pants, did a spit take, and came to realize what a silly thought that was."

Ya know garage, I didn't become a big fan of Palin until it was clear she sent all the right people into apoplectic shit fits at the mere thought of her.

Omaha1 said...

I don't think this is going to turn out well for "Worried"...

Daughter: "Dad, we really need to talk about your dangerous right-wing beliefs."

Dad: "What, honey, I am just worried that the estate tax will eat up all of your inheritance."

Daughter: "Never mind."

...

Daughter: "Dad, we really need to talk about your dangerous right-wing beliefs."

Dad: "What, honey, just because I don't like our illegal alien neighbors? They did steal our car you know."

Daughter: "Never mind."

...

Daughter: "Dad, we really need to talk about your dangerous right-wing beliefs."

Dad: "What, honey, have you been talking to your Womyn's Studies professor about Rush Limbaugh again?"

Daughter: "Never mind."

...

Daughter: "Dad, we really need to talk about your dangerous right-wing beliefs."

Dad: "What, honey, I love you even though you support Obama."

Daughter: "Never mind."

Trooper York said...

Abe Vigoda is Vic Morrow old sergeant from the war who has the Congressional Medal of Honor but now works on an ice cream truck.

He is an employee because he lost his business in the recession and has to dress up like a Penguin to sell ice pops to the people watching the hostage crises.

former law student said...

strictly censoring speech is the way to start.

Addicts have to quit cold turkey.

There's no such thing as "just listening for five minutes" to Sean or BillO.

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Pogo said...

"Medicare is "decimated?""

Texas doctors opting out of Medicare at alarming rate

"Two years after a survey found nearly half of Texas doctors weren't taking some new Medicare patients, new data shows 100 to 200 a year are now ending all involvement with the program. Before 2007, the number of doctors opting out averaged less than a handful a year.

More than 300 doctors have dropped the program in the last two years, including 50 in the first three months of 2010, according to data compiled by the Houston Chronicle. Texas Medical Association officials, who conducted the 2008 survey, said the numbers far exceeded their assumptions.

The largest number of doctors opting out comes from primary care, a field already short of practitioners nationally and especially in Texas. Psychiatrists also make up a large share of the pie, causing one Texas leader to say, “God forbid that a senior has dementia.”

reader_iam said...

Trooper, who sang the theme song?

Trooper York said...

Air Supply.

Pogo said...

"Addicts have to quit cold turkey."

Leftists always think of other people as blocks of wood to be moved around at their whim, justifying it all by an anointed vision that not only never pans out (except for the elite few) but always makes the lumpenproles worse off than before.

c3 said...

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Trooper York said...

Because he just needed someone to believe in him.

LarsPorsena said...

"Abe Vigoda is Vic Morrow old sergeant from the war who has the Congressional Medal of Honor but now works on an ice cream truck.

He is an employee because he lost his business in the recession and has to dress up like a Penguin to sell ice pops to the people watching the hostage crises."

I don't think Abe has the gravitas that this part would require.

I was thinking of something comical.

reader_iam said...

Success!

wv: cochoo

AJ Lynch said...

AllenS said:
"Dear Worried,

I told you over and over, that if you married that former law student you'd end up dumber than Joe Biden, and it happened. Now, I want you and him to pack your bags and get out of my basement. No, you two can't use my computer anymore.

Dad"


Allen: This was perhaps the best and biggest laugh I ever got from this blog! Thanks.

reader_iam said...

Also, that might have killed the earworm at last (see the photoshopped sunset pic thread).

What one quirky New Yorker giveth, another taketh away!

Blessed be the quirky New Yorkers.

Trooper York said...

I just know you are an Air Supply freak reader.

Trooper York said...

And if you saw Abe as Tessio in the Godfather you would know that he could pull that off.

He specialized in depressed Mafia guys back in the day.

He has gravitas coming out of his wazhoo.

Trooper York said...

Luckily they have a creme for that now.

reader_iam said...

Freak, yes. Air Supply fan, no. Aren't you relieved?

bagoh20 said...

It rarely done because it is very hard, but I've found that if you talk with someone of the opposite politics with calm and respect and they reciprocate that, then you find out that you share a lot more than you differ on. You find that the differences are primarily about what works to ensure the world you both want to be similarly free and prosperous. Both sides generally come to agree on the positives of their positions, but differ on emphasis more than anything. Both agree that people should be free, prosperous and treated fairly. The difference is they disagree about who's fault the failures are, who should be punished, and how.

As a conservative, I'm very comfortable in these discussions, as I find myself only having to backtrack to being more compassionate of some less fortunate people, but I find that those on the left get very angry because they need to accept that their political preferences, have a long history of failure, and the results are the very problems we face today.

Of course the biggest obstacle is the main value question: Freedom versus Equality. I think that is the difficult difference, because it cannot be pure either way, but as a general principle, the equality crowd is on thin ground and really hates acknowledging it and the fascism required to reach their ends in real human populations.

In these respectful exchanges that I've had, usually either it eventually regresses back to talking points or my fellow explorer says something to the effect: "Yea, but still."

Though I have personally completely reversed my politics over my life, I think that virtually nobody will change theirs in any time frame less than decades, so we argue endlessly. Eventually some of us are on the other side. Try discussing things without any other objective but testing ideas, we both learn a lot.

former law student said...

"Seniors should be able to see the doctors they want."

Doctors retire; some even die. Growing old along with a doctor is not always possible even if cost was no object.

Plus I remember when my aunt decided Grandpa's doctor of forty years was senile and took him to see someone else. The new guy diagnosed Gramps' colon cancer, which was cut out, letting Gramps live another dozen years.

John Stodder said...

Air Supply.

I was thinking the Cowsills.

But for the closing credits, while the police are scraping Dad from the pavement, something from Melanie as the camera pulls back to show a bucolic American town that is Forever Changed.

former law student said...

That's funny, because I find that those on the right=t get very angry because they cannot accept that their hero, Ronald Reagan, reversed the progress we were making to retire the National Debt and become more energy independent, resulting in our current bondage to our Chinese lenders and to our Arab and Venezuelan oil providers. (Reagan took the solar collectors off the roof of the White House. It's no coincidence the last nuclear power reactor in the US was built during the Carter administration.)

The resulting deficits are the very problems we face today.

Fen said...

Why do liberals ALWAYS need to proselytize? They're worse than the evangelicals.

The daughter's relationship with her father is falling apart because she's trying to convert him.

Fen said...

fls: find that those on the right get very angry because they cannot accept that their hero, Ronald Reagan, reversed the progress we were making to retire the National Debt

If they show anger, its because you assumed they would swallow your bullshit.

But I'm betting they actually just laugh you out of the room.

AJ Lynch said...

FLS: so what you are saying is "If only Jimmy Carter had gotten a 2nd term in office, everything would be better? LOL. You are so funny - you should quit your day job!

Alex said...

FLS - stuff it with your armchair psychology.

DADvocate said...

I didn't become a big fan of Palin until it was clear she sent all the right people into apoplectic shit fits at the mere thought of her.

Same here.

Addicts have to quit cold turkey.

There's no such thing as "just listening for five minutes" to Sean or BillO.


You're absolutely correct. We should be in full control of what others listen to, read, watch on TV, etc. Too many stupid old farts, young farts and middle age farts are being led down the primrose path by smooth talking right wing radio henchmen. I'm surprised Worried even wants to associate with her father. Just shows how kind and compassionate progressives are.

bagoh20 said...

FLS, Where is the money being spent today, and is it spent wisely or wastefully? As I said it usually reverts to talking points about who is to blame, not testing ideas.

Trooper York said...

You mean like this John?

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

She says her father longs for a past that never existed. Maybe. But she longs for a future that CAN NEVER exist.

I don't like her assertion that conservatives "long" for the past. Rather, I think conservatives LOOK to the past as a guide to the future. The past tells us who human beings are, how we behave, and what is possible. In their approach to the future, conservatives are pragmatic and ground their hopes in EXPERIENCES from the past.

Liberals, by contrast, look to an imaginary FUTURE. Rather than be guided by the human experiences of the past, they let their emotions (hope and change) guide them to their imaginary future. They imagine a future that is perfect, a new world in which there is no poverty, no bigotry, no irreconcilable conflict — where there is "social justice" for all.

Their imaginary world defies all of civilized human history. If Adam and Eve let human nature screw up their two person Utopian world, I don't think the liberals are gonna have much luck creating Utopia2.0 in a world with 6 billion people. Liberals yearn for an imaginary perfect world that defies human nature and history. Conservatives, on the other hand, opt for pragmatism to guide the future.

But she's only in her 20s. If she ever leaves academia and lives in the real world, she'll probably abandon her dreams for a Utopian Fantasy as she gains more real world experience.

John Stodder said...

Exactly, Trooper.

Some things stick in your head. I will never forget the Rolling Stone reviewer who compared Melanie's singing voice with "Aretha Franklin trying to take a particularly difficult shit."

Original Mike said...

"Reagan took the solar collectors off the roof of the White House."

If only he would have left those suckers up there, we'd be carbon free by now.

Trooper York said...

Yeah Melanie freaks me out.

She is on my list of broads who have the hairest cootchs in creation along with Dhama's mother Kitty and Alice from the Brady Bunch.

It's a dirty hippie thing.

Michael said...

I was having a crappy day until I read this. It is absolutely hilarious. Progressive inclusive future my ass. HAHAHA.

Fred4Pres said...

This is very funny. It is like their roles have reversed.

Eric said...

How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future? How do I bring back rationality, sensitivity and temperance into our discussions?"

Good lord. That poor man. It must be depressing to know you've raised a fool.

Bruce Hayden said...

The resulting deficits are the very problems we face today.

The problem here is a matter of degree. Reagan ran relatively small deficits, and thanks to those deficits, when we needed our military in the First Gulf War, it was ready, as it wouldn't have been if Carter had been reelected.

But Obama's deficits are on an order of magnitude larger. Trillions instead of tens of billions. His first year deficit is somewhere around four times the size of Bush's last one.

But supposedly, since those on the right signed onto Reagan's far smaller deficits, liberals think that we have to gladly accept Obama's far, far larger ones, run up, BTW, to pay off his political constituencies, instead of bolstering our national security, as was done by Reagan and both the Bushes.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Freak, yes. Air Supply fan, no. Aren't you relieved?

But are you all out of love?

Michael said...

FLS: Your trip down memory lane with respect to Reagan and the solar panels and Jimmy Carter reminds me again of why I became a conservative. The solar panels didn't work. It was stupid on stilts to try to keep them functioning. Plus it was a lie since they were more symbolic than useful. Plus they were ugly and an insult to the architecture of the White House. And here we are now all these years later and guess what? Solar is still a joke, a laughable "solution" to our energy woes. And the implication that somehow Reagan squashed the nuclear power industry is absurd.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I think John Tesh should write the theme music...except then we'd have to think about Oprah Winfrey...so nevermind.

Bruce Hayden said...

(Reagan took the solar collectors off the roof of the White House. It's no coincidence the last nuclear power reactor in the US was built during the Carter administration.)

I would be extremely interested to hear the logic behind the later statement (about nuclear power). In particular, I would be interested to hear how all the regulations and red tape required for building nuclear reactors were somehow caused by President Reagan. Shoot away. We are all waiting to hear the logic.

As to the former (about solar panels), I think that President Reagan deserves thanks from the American people for that.

Note that when this is brought up, what is not, is the cost of the project, and its efficiency. Keep in mind, this was 30 year old technology, and, even today, 30 years later, solar power is still a couple of generations away from being cost competitive with other types of power generation. And, of course, all those assumptions are based on an adequate level of solar energy. There are a lot of reasons that solar farms are being built out west, and one of them is that they get a lot more sunlight than much of the East Coast - and, in particular, Washington, D.C.

So, we had Carter wasting a bunch of money with no real financial return by installing unsightly highly inefficient and costly solar panels on one of our most dear national monuments. All apparently to burnish his "green" credentials. And that was somehow a good thing?

shoutingthomas said...

This may be about opposing self-interests.
Dad probably = late middle age, white, hetero, male.  In other words, dead last in the quota system and likely to be unemployed or to face unemployment.

Daughter probably = mid 20s, white, female.  Can pretend to be lesbian if need be for quota purposes.  High in the quota system and unlikely to face unemployment.

She's supposed to pursue her self-interest with a vengeance, and why not?  Gets her stuff.  Dad's supposed to be self-sacrificing noble idiot, happily handing over his job to a black, woman and gay.

Scott said...

Leftists think their political beliefs are normative. It's that quality that makes them so fucking obnoxious. Why engage in civil discussion when you are filled with the Light of Truth?

If you want to see something scary, just click through and see the Blogger profiles of Jeremy or AlphaLiberal. They're world-class self-righteous bigots on the same tier as Fred Phelps and his congregation. Who can talk to such aggressive airheads? They are on a mission to shout you down. Their mission to bring you the Light of Truth is not normative, it's freakin' smelly unmedicated weird. And they are the voice of the Democratic Party.

Fen said...

Reagan took the solar collectors off the roof of the White House

Yup. They got in the way of the countersnipers.

Original Mike said...

"So, we had Carter wasting a bunch of money with no real financial return by installing unsightly highly inefficient and costly solar panels on one of our most dear national monuments. All apparently to burnish his "green" credentials. And that was somehow a good thing?"

Libs are big on symbolism. Effectiveness seems to be secondary.

Eric said...

She's supposed to pursue her self-interest with a vengeance, and why not? Gets her stuff.

Yeah, but at this rate he's going to leave his estate to the Republican party.

Methadras said...

This idiot is tying her political viewpoint to the distancing between her and her father. Moron. Your progressive, inclusive future doesn't seem to want to include your fathers viewpoints, fucking twit. This is the typical shallow thinking that passes for the progressive Marxist claptrap. Can these people not fathom their own idiocy?

knox said...

I was going to say that Worried sounded like a conservative moby but after reading FLS’ initial comment, now I’m not so sure.

I do think it's a moby. Too many of those eye-roll-inducing catchphrases. It sounds crafted, not sincere. But, who knows?

knox said...

people learn how to avoid talking about politics if they or the person they are talking to isn't up for it

Some do. We had friends we had to cut loose because they wouldn't stop talking politics. I think they liked ganging up on us too much to quit (we were always outnumbered). You just try to think of it as "Oh well, their loss." But it was actually quite sad.

AJ Lynch said...

My decision tree for having political conversations is as follows:

If you are less informed than me or unpersuadable, I refrain from political topics.

Jason said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jason said...

Michelle? Michelle Goldberg? Is that you???

Rialby said...

I smell a Law & Order finale!!!

Jason said...

Oops... that was supposed to be "Michelle? Michelle Goldberg? Is that you????"

jr565 said...

How can I help him embrace a progressive, inclusive future? How do I bring back rationality, sensitivity and temperance into our discussions?"

Talk about arrogance. Why doesn't the father try to help her embrace a non progressive future. Just like the liberal to suggest that but for the evil troglydyte there would be reationality, temperance and sensitivity. That is a person who believes so strongly that her shit doesn't stink that she would get offended if she smeared her shit all over you and then said you were being uncivil in demanding that she not smear her shit.
My advice to the dad, ban her from Christmas and all family functions till she gets her head out of her ass and leaves her ivory tower.

jr565 said...

How can she hope for or suggest she believes in an inclusive future, when she can't include any alternate view points, which to her are signs of irratiaonality incivility and dare I say it evilness.

MC said...

Oh lefties, this is beyond parody.

Skookum John said...

It's no coincidence the last nuclear power reactor in the US was built during the Carter administration.

What the hell? When did Jimmy Carter become Montgomery Burns, and Reagan join the environmentalist death cult?

ricpic said...

"What do you know of the world, darling daughter mine?"

"That people are good and that they care."

"Compared to our bond of blood their caring is a pose."

"What a terrible thing to say! What has turned you so meager and mean?"

"I spent my warmth and strength to keep you safe, as did a million other men who gave their all to keep a million daughters safe."

"And what of the wider world, do you not care?"

"My child, my child, first have a child. Then we'll speak again. But always know I love you so."

former law student said...

Solar water heating technology hasn't changed all that much -- mine has been on the roof 20 years, saving me thousands of dollars on natural gas. It has the visual impact of a skylight.

I fear you guys have been talking out your ass.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2000/03/prodigal-sun

AC245 said...

What a delightfully amusing pair of comments from former law student:

"Take all the AM radios out of the house. Or have a TV repairman break the wire leading to the AM selector switch.

No Rush/Sean/Savage/Billo/Levin, no problem."

+

"I fear you guys have been talking out your ass.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2000/03/prodigal-sun"

TRO said...

"You been channeling Mark Twain again, haven't you?"

No, LOL, but what was true back then is just as true now. I got the son to prove it.

PatCA said...

See the top selling book on Amazon, Ms. Worried, and be afraid, be very afraid.

amba said...

Related post, although about friends not family members.

amba said...

OT: Melanie owned the house next door to ours in FLorida for a while. I think it was the '80s. She was trying in vain to make a comeback. She had a marvelous cat, long-haired, smoky, golden-eyed, named Mooch.

GMay said...

fls: "I fear you guys have been talking out your ass."

Projecting again. I believe your solar panel story about as much as your alleged Republican voter registration.

Revenant said...

Ronald Reagan, reversed the progress we were making to [...] become more energy independent

There is no such thing as energy independence. It isn't economically possible without cutting off all foreign trade. Even if we didn't use a single drop of foreign oil, our economy would still be dependent on foreign oil production -- because our economy is dependent on trade with foreign nations, who are dependent on foreign energy sources.

The reason for exploiting domestic energy sources isn't to achieve energy independence, but to lower energy costs.

reader_iam said...

Let us never mention that worrisome little thing involving the off-shoring of making and producing, including not just factories and other sorts of hard manufacturing and also whole classes of ag, but also such soft stuff as IT and even editing/writing crap. Etc. and even more.

U.S. independence, my ass. Almost no one, so far as I can tell, believes in that one or has so believed for decades now. In fact, pretty much everyone lies about that now, to pretty much everyone, including themselves.

reader_iam said...

Despite all the ostentatious fiddling/keening from right and left, ever-longer supply chains have propagated and still do propagate, as do the implications, and they do so with the full support, in one or another, from all those people who like to feel up elephants while turning blind eyes to those others who are doing it, too.

reader_iam said...

I'm here to tell you: Whenever anyone talks to me about being Independent, or being Green, or being Conservative, or being Democratic, or about almost anything else, the first thing that jumps to my mind is...

...acknowledge the supply chains.

wv: bactoma