November 15, 2009

"Thanks for loving America" = what Sarah Palin wants to say to you when you show up for her book tour appearances.

Because, you know, wanting to see Sarah Palin in the flesh equates with loving America.

Or is that "Thank you" as in "Thank you for not smoking"?

162 comments:

kentuckyliz said...

Loving America...is that what the kids are calling It nowadays....

kentuckyliz said...

Thank You For Smoking was a great movie.

Thank You For Communisting America.

Expat(ish) said...

Interesting, Ann, that you took that from her post. By my count the bulk of it was an attack on the media and specifically the AP for their 11 reporter task force.

And I can't wait to see you! God bless the fight for freedom! Keep up the great work, Patriots who love this country.

I suspect you'll find more people at a Palin rally who love the US than you will when KSM's supporters show up at his trial in NYC.

-XC

WV - fettaxeo - what the tax man does to you if you pay early

John Lynch said...

Or she assumes all Americans love America. Very naive, I know.

Ann Althouse said...

"Interesting, Ann, that you took that from her post. By my count the bulk of it was an attack on the media and specifically the AP for their 11 reporter task force."

Yes, it *is* interesting. And my blog is interesting in part because I use that technique all the time. It's not a good blogging strategy to represent the things you link to with a principal of proportionality. I read and when I see something that interests me, that would work as a blog post, that's what I blog.

kentuckyliz said...

What the kids called it way back when...because I'm tall, my friends called it "doing my bit for the NBA" as if I were a breeder for a race of giants.

kentuckyliz said...

I want a "Dirty Libtard Pirate Whore" t-shirt to wear to the next Democrat Women's Club meeting.

1jpb said...

I think Althouse is taking the fun out of mocking Palin. That's my (and the other non-cons') territory. And, it's such fun.

I'm feeling the words of JBS (though in a different context, w/ a different meaning):

"Who am I? Why am I here?"

ricpic said...

I love it that Sarah describes the AP as "spewing."

kentuckyliz said...

I wouldn't go to a Sarah Palin book signing or appearance because I'm a fan of hers or because I love America.

I would go to gaze upon her beauty.

She is real purdy.

There should be a Palin channel with hair band power love ballads and pictures of Sarah Palin.

I'd watch probably an hour a day.

Might cut into my Althouse time though.

1jpb said...

"There should be a Palin channel with hair band power love ballads and pictures of Sarah Palin."

Can vbspurs (who banned me (twice)) add a soundtrack to her blog?

former law student said...

Palin should be happy that the AP's giving her book free publicity.

The fact-checking website Conservatives4Palin would be more persuasive if they called her "Ex-Governor Palin." Because I'm pretty sure she quit the job last summer.

Finally, this is a libtard because it is biased towards the left:

http://www.dancewearbycremonini.com.au/images/41l.jpg

dreams said...

People who like Palin do love America, there are many liberals including Obama that don't love America.

Shanna said...

Thank You For Smoking was a great movie.

I liked the book too. And Little Green Men, although it's been years since I read it.

John Lynch said...

She's using patriotism as a compliment...can't have that.

Really, I see how this can be taken as egotistical, but it doesn't have to be.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Althouse should know better than to commit a logical fallacy like this one.

Converse Fallacy of Accident or perhaps Irrelevant Conclusion? Not sure.

I might fallaciously conclude that Althouse is purposely trying to drive traffic to her blog by these specious and flawed arguments because she knows that people will respond to Palin like Pavlov's dogs to the sound of the feeding bell. :-)

Maguro said...

I wonder what Obama would like to say to you if you showed up at his book tour appearances.

"Thanks for loving social justice"?

"Thanks for not clinging to guns and bibles"?

"Thanks for not being a right-wing wacko"?

John Lynch said...

The President could say "Thank you for loving America," and it wouldn't bother me at all.

Assuming patriotism isn't insulting, is it?

SteveR said...

I'm ready for this to be over, to borrow from someone else, we will learn nothing new and no one's mind will be changed.

Its necessary, I guess, but please let's move on. Please

somefeller said...

David Brooks called Palin "a joke" on ABC's "This Week" today. Palin already has responded to this calumny, however.

edutcher said...

Ann's reading an awful lot into that post that just ain't there, and guess what?

It's starting to get old (see Little Green Footballs).

Whatever your problem with Mrs. Palin, Ann, it isn't that she's dumb.

While the "Thanks for loving America" line can come across as a bit crass or naive (take your pick), I don't doubt Mrs. Palin sees herself as one of many beleaguered Americans fighting against a neo-, proto-, crypto-communist establishment in DC (among other places) which appears to be actively trying to destroy this country. It's not a cheap shot, but it's getting there.

Zokar said...

My guess is that Obama's groveling/bowing to foreign sovereigns, and his decision to damage this country by trying KSM & Co. half a mile from Ground Zero, brought to Palin's mind the fact that Obama's stance toward this country is considerably more nuanced than simply loving America.

I don't think he even likes this country. He certainly has contempt for wide swaths of Americans who refuse to submit to the federal government.

Exhibit A:

"So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Exhibit B (said to Democratic members of the House):

“Does anybody think that the teabag, anti-government people are going to support them if they bring down health care? All it will do is confuse and dispirit” Democratic voters “and it will encourage the extremists.”

Jason (the commenter) said...

kentuckyliz: Thank You For Smoking was a great movie.

I thought it was terrible, but then I saw the trailer and they gave away almost all the jokes there.

miller said...

Or "Please, let's stop talking about Palin. And you know what she just said? It's awful! So let's talk about it some more!"

I mean, really. She's Obama without all the foreigner baggage.

Jason (the commenter) said...

I think the whole "Thanks for loving America" is just an artifact of Palin's speaking style. She always has certain messages she wants to put across and she'll do it no matter how awkwardly it comes out (think of her debate with Biden).

Kensington said...

The Left doesn't love America. That's why they're so eager to "transform" and "change" it.

They love some other notion of what they think America should be, not America as it is.

LYNNDH said...

It seems to me that Ann is a little angery in her posts on Palin.

miller said...

I would go farther and say the left despises America.

What does the left say about Maine, for example, for rejecting same-sex marriage?

"Well, you differ in your approach, but vox populi vox Dei, I guess"?

No.

"YOU ARE BIGOTED AND WE HOPE YOU ALL DIE."

That to me is not celebrating America. That's hoping that Americans with differing opinions are silenced. That's despising America.

q12345q6789 said...

I don't have a dog in this Palin / anti-Palin circle-jerk-ery. A while back I caught a few episodes of Sean Hannitiy's radio show (just out of curiosity) and it always really got under my skin when every person who spoke to Sean Hannity said, "Sean, you're a great American!" and Sean parroted back "You're a Great American!" As if telling Sean he was "a great American" thereby conferred great American-ness onto the caller. I always wanted to hear the caller then launch into a rallying praise of Communistic, Terrorizing Wolf-men in the name of Allah; because Sean has cleared him as "a great American". (I think Sean's stopped doing this now because someone clued him into how arrogant it sounds).

WV: vagfr = The opposite of a Brazilian Wax job.

Jim Hanson said...

I'm sure my opinion matters quite highly to you so I feel obligated to point out that you sound bitchy and petty about Palin.

It's kinda sad to see you joining the Palin-bashing crowd. She may not be the most edumacated, and e-light, but what did she really do wrong? And in all honesty, if I had to choose between her and Biden I'll take her any time.

You seem almost Sillivan-esque in taking shots at her.

Cordially,

Uncle J

Zokar said...

q123456789 (if that is your real name),

The "great American" thing that Hannity does is meant to be humorous/sarcastic. I might be mistaken, but I think it started as an imitation of talk show host Bob Grant. (Hannity also used to say "It's sick and getting sicker," which was an imitation of Bob Grant - but that was before Grant joined Hannity as part of the WABC radio line-up.)

Ron said...

And my blog is interesting in part because I use that technique all the time.

Write what and as you will; but we'll let you know if it's interesting or not.

Kensington said...

Hannity's "you're a great American!" shtick isn't sarcastic. It's sincere.

There's also nothing wrong with it. Only liberals would get bent out of shape about people complimenting each other on their patriotism.

Theo Boehm said...

DBQ: ***DING***

q12345q6789 said...

@ Zocar - Perhaps you're right, I dunno. But if so; There's a whole-lot of sad Middle-Americans out there tonight who thought they really were great Americans because Sean said so. (P.S. I'm a Middle-American who is sad tonight for other reasons entirely)

WV: teresse = Strangely, my real name.

miller said...

Actually, I don't think Althouse despises Palin. I think she is focusing her gimlet eye on Palin in the spirit of cruel neutrality.

And I think Palin is grown-up enough to handle it.

Unlike the squealing you'd hear if MC President were to be examined.

As Steyn put it, "speaking truth to bower."

John Lynch said...

I don't think it's unpatriotic to oppose leaders and policies that are bad for the country. In fact, it's patriotic to do so since patriotism is motivated by love of country.

That's always a judgment call. Of course everyone disagrees on something. So, liberals and conservatives can be equally patriotic in their motivations, even if someone has to be wrong about which result ends up being the best for the country.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism," almost gets it right. Dissent can be patriotic, but isn't always. It's quite possible to dissent for reasons other than love of country, and people often do. Why this isn't stated more often bewilders me. For instance, I've seen quite a bit of dissent that had nothing nice to say about the United States at all, nor was it intended to do anything to improve it. How dissent that vilifies America can be called "patriotic" is bizarre. Of course it's not.
Go ahead and say what you want, that's fine, but don't tell me it's patriotic.

Inventing a fantasy "real" America to replace the real thing isn't patriotism, either. This goes for left and right. Many people seem to forget 53% of us voted for the President. You think they aren't Americans? Patriotism is partly accepting, and loving, a whole lot of people and things you disagree with.

Since I can't read minds, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt about their intentions. Now, the results, or the probable results, of their actions is always fair game.

Florida said...

"Because, you know, wanting to see Sarah Palin in the flesh equates with loving America."

Quit being such a fucking bitch, Ann.

It's really very unattractive. It makes you look fat.

Pastafarian said...

kentuckyliz said: "I want a "Dirty Libtard Pirate Whore" t-shirt to wear to the next Democrat Women's Club meeting."

and:

"There should be a Palin channel with hair band power love ballads and pictures of Sarah Palin."

Funniest comments I've read in quite a while. Good stuff.

Zokar said...

Number person,

Do you agree with or take as gospel everything you hear from NPR, or whatever you listen to? I assume the answer is no.

But there's an assumption that those who listen to Limbaugh or Hannity (I prefer the former) are basically idiots who need talk show hosts to tell them what to think. If so, then Ann Althouse is an idiot because she's a regular Limbaugh listener. (In fact, she sometimes praises Limbaugh, and sometimes criticizes his statements on this blog.)

Maybe those with a different political views than yourself have the capacity to think.

q12345q6789 said...

@ Zocar: I'm not really a number-person. I prefer arts and crafts, generally. Sometimes I forget that on a lot of political blogs everyone is "presumed troll until found innocent". Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not a liberal (nor a conservative). I do listen to NPR but it often ends with me having higher blood pressure. The only point of my post was highlighting a personally annoying habit of Sean Hannity's for deciding that he was the arbiter of a person's patriotism based on phrase prostration. Personally, I like people who really like the US and want the best for America. (Because I live here!)

WV: aropenz = German manufacturer of the "space pen"

traditionalguy said...

Palin is simply to understand. She is not a dunderhead at all. By positing her greeting like thank you for being an America loving patriot because you support me she is calling out for a commitment from you in public that is the opposite of neutrality, either the cruel or the sloppy type of neutrality. She is calling for a response like a military salute or playing the national Anthem does. Sorry that it embarasses you. Standing up in public for a controversial belief or group membership costs something. Neutrality costs little, but works for Switzerland.

Dogwood said...

I wonder what Obama would like to say to you if you showed up at his book tour appearances.

"Thanks for not being a typical white person."

"Thanks for saving me the trouble by throwing yourself under the bus."

"Thanks for writing my book for me, writer's block is such a bitch."

Zokar said...

q12345q6789,

I miss-reacted, I know. I'm not a fan of Hannity, actually. He seems pleasant, but I got no insight when I used to listen to him. I guess I reacted not to you, but to an archetype of a critic of talk radio in my brain.

Kirby Olson said...

She's missing a sense of humor which is a serious handicap.

Huckabee will do better. You have to have a sense of humor to survive politics at the national level.

Obama is also missing a sense of humor.

Giuliani can be humorous.

I could be wrong. I wonder if there is something funny in her book. I truly doubt it.

I couldn't find a single joke in Obama's memoirs.

Chip Ahoy said...

To increase sales if would help if the book had

* a fold-out in the middle. Something frame-able or that could be pinned up.

* one of those pictures that changes when you move it so a portrait of Palin winks.

* a refrigerator magnet Palin with magnet wardrobe and shoes.

* paper Palin glasses to view 3D Palin pictures

* a connect-the-dot Palin maze puzzle.

* a pop-up card of the Palin family that includes a Track and a Trig, a Bristol, a Willow, and a Piper, and mean little Levi Johnson, and on the sides, a fishing boat, and bridge to nowhere and a pipeline. OK, that's a lot. It might need Robert Sabuda to design it.

* a Palin Shoots-n-Ladders game that slips and slides though beauty contests, mayor position, governorship, vice president candidacies, book authorships and with the final goal of presidency. With recognizable pieces.

* Actual photographs of Palin's cervix.

* a scratch 'n sniff Palin card

* Interchangeable Tina Fey, Katy Couric, Charlie Gibson, Levi Johnson dart board covers.

Kirby Olson said...

W. could be funny, too.

All the great American presidents had a terrific sense of humor.

It's almost very important.

Paddy O. said...

"It's morning in America" worked.

"Thanks for loving America" might work.

It's positive, and while it can be assumed to be a message of contrast... it doesn't necessarily have to be.

Loving America sounds like a rather interesting slogan for, say, a Presidential campaign.

Palladian said...

"You seem almost Sillivan-esque in taking shots at her."

Ann's gonna be hanging out at Andy's place and brushing beagle-hair off her sweater before you can say "daily dish". Of course, since Andy and his boyfriend are both into the "bear" hirsute masculine drag thing, you'd better hope it's beagle hair all over the couch...

I've been around here a lot longer than a lot of other commenters and so perhaps the rest of you haven't noticed but when Althouse gets a lot of negative push-back over a subject, she hits that subject and the offended group with extreme prejudice. When she finds a sore spot, she pokes at it with malicious glee. I can relate to this; it's the nature of the contrarian and the independent thinker. The more outrage generated by her posts on Palin (or Obama or Feministing or whatever) the more posts you're going to see.

She's done brilliantly cruel dissections of Barack Obama, another politician whose supporters react extremely defensively when he's criticized, for the same wrong-headed reasons as do Palin's supporters: people personalize both of them. They see, in Barack Obama and Sarah Palin, a representation of their "clan", of their race, of their religion (or irreligion). Criticism of these politicians is seen as criticism of the larger groups both seem to represent. This is wrong-headed (and unfortunately encouraged, to varying degrees by both Obama and Palin) because the larger group they're supposed to represent is not blacks, Christians, community organizers, Alaskans, tea-partiers or the "netroots" but Americans. This especially goes for Barack Obama because he's the freakin' President of the United States, not the president of the liberals or president of the "Blue States" or president of the black people.

But if we're ever going to have a stable and competent government, people need to stop personalizing candidates and start demanding clear articulations of specific policy and demonstrations of experience and competence. If a politician can't deliver that then people need to criticize and disqualify them as candidates for public office, no matter how clean, articulate, telegenic and sympathetic they may be, nor how interesting or "diverse" their personal narratives. That goes for supporters of Palin and for supporters of Obama. Both in my opinion are equally mediocre and got where they've gotten through irrational emotional appeal rather than competence.

Stop electing personal narratives and start electing competent managers.

q12345q6789 said...

@ Zocar: S'cool.

WV: redshio = Color of the ink on those Chinese Zodiac charts in Ameri-Asian restaurants.

1jpb said...

Palladian,

Thanks for the Ardbeg tip. It's great.

I'd given up on Islay--especially after disappointments w/ a variety of Laphroaig products, way to sweet (including cask strength) for me.

AlphaLiberal said...

Thanks for noticing.

Remember, if you criticize Sarah Palin, you hate the troops.

traditionalguy said...

Alpha Liberal...You are a good critic for Palin. Yes, not supporting Palin is no evidence that anyone fails to support the troops. She needs to work on that angle. The troops need support, but they also on occaision need a smart enough leader to order a Chosin Resevoir style Advance to the Rear. She is not yet totally tested on all she will need to win and to govern. But at least she can count on you to test her weak areas so that she will succeed.

miller said...

Plus, Palin can depend upon AL to be spending 95% of his time gazing lovingly at her & wishing he were as powerful as she. (The other 5% is doing the chores for his mom when he's not in the basement.)

traditionalguy said...

Chip @ 5:36...You need to copywrite that list and sell the book. The Libs will think it is a great parody and buy it, and the Palinistas will all buy and collect it like they do Elvis memorability.

edutcher said...

From Mrs. Palin's Facebook post:

"Amazingly, but not surprisingly, the AP somehow nabbed a copy of the book before it was released. They're now erroneously reporting on the book's contents and are repeating many of the same things they spewed during the campaign and afterwards."

A point not without merit. How does Ann (or anyone else) know the two whole pages she perused haven't been "erroneously" transcribed?

AlphaLiberal said...

Remember, if you criticize Sarah Palin, you hate the troops.

No, one does not follow from the other, but most who do one also do the other.

WV "panch" What an overflowing stomach in Boston is called.

Anton said...

And thanks, Newsweek, for that gorgeous photo of Sarah Palin you put on your cover (the jogging shorts photo).

What can I say but, Wow!!

Paul said...

"I've been around here a lot longer than a lot of other commenters and so perhaps the rest of you haven't noticed but when Althouse gets a lot of negative push-back over a subject, she hits that subject and the offended group with extreme prejudice. When she finds a sore spot, she pokes at it with malicious glee. I can relate to this; it's the nature of the contrarian and the independent thinker. The more outrage generated by her posts on Palin (or Obama or Feministing or whatever) the more posts you're going to see."

No. It's not the nature of the independent thinker. It IS the nature of the contrarian who is a reactionary, but the truly independent thinker is not swayed by others opinions or reactions.

It's like the teen who imagines himself to be a free spirit because he does just the opposite of what the crowd does, but in fact he's still relying on someone else's cues before he chooses his behavior. If he was truly a free spirit he would go with or against the crowd when it suited him with little concern for the ebb and flow of popular opinion.

Academics lack the edge and efficient analytical sensibilities that are forced upon those who live in the hardscrabble battle-space of the real world. They exist in a world where theory and possibility carry more weight than they actually merit and this skews their judgment. That's why so many academics are leftists and Marxists. It is a symptom of emotional immaturity and entirely to be expected in a milieu of such unnatural security. People grow up and grow spines because they are forced to.

Academics are great for teaching within their fields of expertise. That is their real function. Beyond that their opinions are less useful and grounded in reality than almost anyone who toughens their hide on the sharp edges of the real world.

This of course is compounded by the academic's belief that he is indeed smarter than just about everyone else and deserves to be running the show. All one has to do is look at Obama and his administration to see this fallacy playing out with all its disastrous consequences.

Dogwood said...

And thanks, Newsweek, for that gorgeous photo of Sarah Palin you put on your cover (the jogging shorts photo).

What can I say but, Wow!!


I second the Wow!

Maybeline said...

Hmmmm.... I'm not a regular at this blog but somehow I am connecting 1. Anne's somewhat over-the-top harsh analysis with Palin with 2. her strange dislike of Hillary Clinton for not ditching her hubby and 3. her very odd attack on Jessica Valenti for looking cute in a high cut sweater shirt in the presence of Bill Clinton.

Ann has issues with powerful women, me thinks....

RLB_IV said...

The book will not be complete with a recipe for Alaskan Gingersnap Cookies! After all, Hillary had a recipe (chocolate chip?)to show that she was a wife, too. As we all know, if Palin was a cookie she would be a gingersnap. Man, that Todd dude has a handful.

So what is the skinny? Mrs Meade knows how to generate traffic? Glad you figured it out. Mrs Meade do you make cookies?

traditionalguy said...

Maybeline...The trouble The Professor has is always with a person using a communication style that doesn't match up with the ideas being communicated. She marks off for law students which are actors in training; and she marks off for political power users who are actors in practice. That is what a teacher does. (See, The Paper Chase)She is helping them. Doing it in public pricks the pride of the actors using political power. Therefore she is often attacked visciously herself. A true narcicist strikes out to crush any person that they percieve as a threat to their narcicisitic supply, no matter how much the threating person has done for them for years.

edutcher said...

Anton said...

And thanks, Newsweek, for that gorgeous photo of Sarah Palin you put on your cover (the jogging shorts photo).

I think most of us guys can get behind that noble sentiment.

Maybeline said...

Hmmmm.... I'm not a regular at this blog but somehow I am connecting 1. Anne's somewhat over-the-top harsh analysis with Palin with 2. her strange dislike of Hillary Clinton for not ditching her hubby and 3. her very odd attack on Jessica Valenti for looking cute in a high cut sweater shirt in the presence of Bill Clinton.

Ann has issues with powerful women, me thinks....


Possibly, but I don't think so. I can't agree with tg's assessment of your comment.

If Ann's bio on Wiki is correct, and I know I take my life in my hands saying that, she has a very upper middle class background and Miss Sarah, self-made woman from the working class that she is, seems to really push that milieu's buttons, so 1 may be fairly obvious.

2 is pretty clear - she thinks Hilla is a fool for hanging on to Willie; sad to say, given her run at the White House and her performance at State, it's Willie who may be hanging on to her for whatever reason.

As to 3, well, let's go to back to Anton.

Big Mike said...

Newsweek gives it away with snide little caption: She's bad news for the GOP--and for everybody else, too.

Since Newsweek equates bad news for the GOP with good news for everybody they care for, I think we can safely assume that she worries them.

Is it snarky of me to note that neither Newsweek nor any other print organ of the left wing lunatic fringe pays much attention to John McCain? I guess he's demonstrating his leadership by disappearing into the woodwork.

paul a'barge said...

All of you who voted for Obama, tell me again what he meant when he said thanks for voting for him.

And how's that working out for America now?

Maybeline said...

TG,

Hmmmm.... but A.A. doesn't respond to Obama's inconsistencies with as much vigor. Instead, every time I come to this blog, A.A. is busy lauding O's "cool" and "controlled" style.

Also, A.A. prides herself on being adversarial and taking the road less traveled when it comes to analysis. So when she uses the status quo in regard to Palin - "she's dumb!", I know something's up. And it's not really unusual for pundits or blogsters to single out the most foolish sounding sentence or excerpt to ridicule Palin for maximum effect. It really seems like A.A. is responding with anger versus the "cool" and "controlled" style that she loves so much.

The Hillary Clinton thing was just so odd. A large percentage of women have husbands who cheat. It seems odd to require that they all leave their husbands before advancing into positions of greater power!

And Jessica... now that was ODD!!! God help me, I don't want to go back into THOSE archives.

mtrobertsattorney said...

The assumption made by many commenters is that Ann actually believes everything she writes.

This may not be true.

kynefski said...

Ann has issues with powerful women, me thinks....

Um...Whom does that remind us of, eh?

edutcher said...

Maybeline said...

The Hillary Clinton thing was just so odd. A large percentage of women have husbands who cheat. It seems odd to require that they all leave their husbands before advancing into positions of greater power!

I think Ann, and a lot of other women, see Hillary as abused and humiliated, which is true, and would love to see her put on her big girl panties and tell the delusional serial fornicator to get lost.

Problem is, without him, it's doubtful she would have done anything but practice corporate law or political activism.

Roux said...

Has the AP every fact checked Obama's books?

Elliott A said...

It would not be beyond her to put something out there and then sit back and see how excited everyone gets. It also keeps her personal position less predictable, which makes it easier for the everyone to comment without actively contradicting out esteemed hostess.

traditionalguy said...

Maybeline...I hear you. Still I see AA as comparing the words and persona presentation to the material the person is dealing with and then pointing out that there is a better way to do it. Like an Olympics Dive Judge commenting on the style and the splash at entry...most of that is true but over my head until I have studied what the Judge is saying over and over. The fact that a diver is female or is black is only background to the skill of the presentation style. Palin needs to learn where she can overdo the martyrdom meme, although it is always there. She should also learn to show the smarts and the strengths that she has acquired over the last year and the coming years. The same thing goes for The professor's analysis of Obama's style and his actions; but I suspect that the Professor's recent realisation that the cool and educated black man is only a serial liar and destroyer of all that he can find to destroy by using his Gift to create the illusion of peace by surrender and redistribution, has been as big a downer to her as it has been to us.

Triangle Man said...

@Palladin

Brilliant. All if it.

Ann Althouse said...

"[Ann] has a very upper middle class background"

What supposed facts is that assertion abased on?

I come from a middle middle class background. I went to the University of Michigan for college, despite being my high school valedictorian, for financial reasons. Is that enough to make it clear?

kentuckyliz said...

Chip Ahoy included in his Palin Fun Kit:

* Actual photographs of Palin's cervix.

* a scratch 'n sniff Palin card


Hmmm...maybe those items could be one and the same!

1jpb said...

paul a'barge,

I'm a BHO voter and I have zero regrets. And, it's not like I haven't heard the right wing attacks--I regularly listen to right wing radio and other right wing folks, including a bunch of my close friends.

Clinton lived off the benefits of the peace dividend from the end of the cold war. Since somewhere around the Reagan administration the US has lived off of the investment dividend of earlier Americans.

Put simply; when BHO talked about "spreading the wealth" in his conversation w/ JtP I was happy. Likewise when Buffet has said essentially the same thing, I've cheered him on. From my position, and especially the position of some folks I hang w/ it'd be nice if long-term American prosperity could be advanced by moving more and more of the wealth of our country to the very few at the top, but I don't think this is the key to long term success.

It seems that there may be an inherent flow that occurs in a less and less redistributing capitalist society such that those w/ the most capital are positioned to conglomerate ever increasing portions of the capital pie (sort-of the way monopolies occur). But, in the long run this process is unsustainable because healthy capitalism requires capital to recirculate, to be put to work, to flow. In the long run nobody benefits w/o recirculation that includes non-ultra-rich. And, I believe that corporations aren't patriotic, i.e. the folks who run public corporations have a fiduciary/legal mandate (as well as the incentive of great personal wealth) to legally sell out their country, their fellow citizens, and their workers if doing so is best for the share holders.

So, I'm all for minimally--but still effectively--regulated capitalism, but I'm also for an income redistributing (i.e. progressive) tax policy.

That you, and others, can't fathom that a non-crazy, non-commie-loving person could listen to and reject your anti-BHO jabber is interesting to me. So please do let the crazy, commie-lover accusations flow.

1jpb said...

"Has the AP every fact checked Obama's books?"

I don't know. But, the NYT has. They were even snooping around with folks from his college days to get more details about his drug use. Presumably this doesn't fit the right wing narrative, I appologize for being a George Banks.


re GB: "Every party has a pooper, that's why we invited you, party pooper, GEORGE BANKS! That's who!"

Bill Kilgore said...

Do the odd string of recent Palin posts mean that it's true that our beloved host is working with Andy on his 20 foot paper-mache model of Sarah Palin's labia?

I've always wanted to see that thing. I hope Ms. Althouse makes it one of those "Cafe Style" posts- I love those.

Palladian said...

"but I'm also for an income redistributing (i.e. progressive) tax policy."

Keep your fucking hands off my money.

Glad you enjoyed the Ardbeg.

Republican said...

What kind of PATRIOT would not love America enough to pay $24.95 to gain valuable insight into the thinking of ex-Governor "rogue" Palin?

John Stodder said...

I'm a BHO voter and I have zero regrets.

George Soros! You magnificent bastard, I read your portfolio!

edutcher said...

Ann Althouse said...

What supposed facts is that assertion abased on?

I come from a middle middle class background. I went to the University of Michigan for college, despite being my high school valedictorian, for financial reasons. Is that enough to make it clear?


Calm down. As I said in my comment, If Ann's bio on Wiki is correct, and I know I take my life in my hands saying that...

I'm the first one to concede Wiki is anything but the fount of truth, but it was all I had.

You sound as if I was being insulting, and I wasn't. Simply my reading of what I saw. It didn't say anything about financial difficulties.

MadisonMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

I also have no regrets about voting for BHO.

Is there a reason to think about your vote after leaving the voting booth? If you give due diligence to your decision, and conclude it's the best vote for that moment, why second-guess yourself? One cannot rewrite history, or start an alternative future thread.

Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

I would like to propose a toast:

Here's to Sarah Palin; may she never - EVER - go away.

I am going to go out on a limb here: No woman since Eleanor Roosevelt has done more to further the cause of progressive politics in the United States of America.

Don'cha just love her? I sure do!

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

Cedarford said...

MadisonMan said...
I also have no regrets about voting for BHO.

Is there a reason to think about your vote after leaving the voting booth? If you give due diligence to your decision, and conclude it's the best vote for that moment, why second-guess yourself? One cannot rewrite history, or start an alternative future thread.


Agree. You vote for the best possibility in your informed judgment and if it turns out to be a real dog - well, no going back and demanding a do-over. That's how contracts, and elections work.

And the Obama call is a bit easier to move on from because no one - no one - is sobbing their hearts out that "he served and sufffered!" hero McCain isn't there instead.

For members of the Cult of Palin who maintain that "at least the Goddess Herself would be VP!!" - well, given how McCain felt about her after a few weeks -

Her role would have been akin to what Nixon assigned his "not ready for Primetime VP, Agnew". Throw him out to chant soundbites and slogans like "nattering nabobs of negativism" and throw the red meat out at right-wingers. Then have him attend a 2-day meeting of Jr Kiwanis members and dispach the boob to attend the funeral of the former deputy premiere of Ecuador.

Of course, the Goddess would have made some private inquiries on McCain's health, and if it was still good...might have quit so she could meet others who love America like she does..

Weezie said...

When Palin really was running around saying hilariously stupid stuff, you said nothing, Ann. Now that she is coming off way more polished, you want to criticize her by trying to make something out of a fairly innocuous comment?

Is she a weird grifter who will take the crazy base off the cliff? Yes. But your Annie-Come-Lately-Criticisms of the former governor are baseless now.

You might as well stay on the crazy train WITH your nutjob commenters. No use in stating the obvious now, toots. You are all in.

chickenlittle said...

This thread is amusing-at so many levels.

Carrie on!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Her role would have been akin to what Nixon assigned his "not ready for Primetime VP, Agnew". Throw him out to chant soundbites and slogans like "nattering nabobs of negativism" and throw the red meat out at right-wingers. Then have him attend a 2-day meeting of Jr Kiwanis members and dispach the boob to attend the funeral of the former deputy premiere of Ecuador.

And this is different from Biden....how?

chickenlittle said...

Keep spinning C4. Meanwhile, here's some sage advice: Link

Prism Trading School said...

Kensington said...
Hannity's "you're a great American!" shtick isn't sarcastic. It's sincere.There's also nothing wrong with it. Only liberals would get bent out of shape about people complimenting each other on their patriotism."

No butthead. We get cranked out of shape when some anonymous caller pipes up with "Sean, you're a great American" and Sean pipes back "You're a great American too" and the guy could be Jack the Riper and Sean, a consumate liar and fabricator, is hardly great unless you brand someone as great by the width and breadth of the lies they tell.

Palin is a mockery....something of a Congresswoman Bachman with less brains (not that Ms. Bachman has any to spare).

When the uber-recht gets over the idea that Palin is little more than a fool who brings nothing to the table other than an appetite for self promotion the country will be better off.

Just don't do it until 2012 when she runs for president. She single handedly will will save the democrats from defeat. Palin and Glenn Beck...now there is a ticket.

hdhouse said...

and as to the 11 AP reporters assigned to "fact check"...

as there are no facts in Ms. Palin's book (sic!) and as it appears that everything she has cited to date has been denied...yes indeed it was a waste of time.

Synova said...

Wow, some people just can't stand other people to express anything positive about anyone, can they. Can't express positive assumptions or anything that might encourage people to live up to that or feel good about themselves.

I'd rather hang out with and listen to positive people who say positive things and who express optimism.

Synova said...

Yes, hdhouse... the people she called idiots denied being idiots.

Amazing!

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"as there are no facts in Ms. Palin's book (sic!)" [sic]

You libtards don't understand the usage of "sic" and constantly misuse it all the time because you think it makes you look smart. All it does is expose your ignorance and make you look stupid.

Sic is a Latin word meaning "thus" or "thus it it written" and is put in square brackets to indicate that you are directly and correctly quoting something that is either an archaic usage, or that you are trying to highlight an error and reproduce it exactly.

The term sic is most often used in quoted material (usually in square brackets, and sometimes italicized) to indicate that the preceding segment of the quote was copied faithfully, in spite of a mistake or seeming mistake; that is, that the mistake or seeming mistake was in the original text, and not due to misquoting on the part of the present writer

It isn't because you want to be sarcastic or snide. Wise up.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

For instance:

"All it does is expose your ignorance and make [sic] you look stupid."

Sigh. I wish we had an edit function on this comment section.

:-P

Synova said...

The WSJ review is interesting.

I suppose the "denials" made include a "denial" that McCain's staff did not prepare and distribute the customary cheat-sheet for reporters that listed Palin's bio and accomplishments?

Either that they actually *did* do that, or that it's *not* customary?

Or that they did *so* consult her on the press release concerning her daughter's pregnancy?

Or that they didn't forbid her from mentioning Bush in relationship to national security?

Obama ran against Bush *anyway*... I don't see what was salvaged by making sure that the McCain campaign never mentioned him.

That McCain's staff seems to have mishandled Palin and generally run a crappy, blinkered, campaign can be true without that truth proving that Palin is brilliant or a great candidate. I don't see the need here to demand that his staff was wonderful in order to maintain that Palin wasn't.

Dark Eden said...

Why does saying you love America bother some people so much?

I've always wondered this so if you are bothered by this phrase can you explain to me why?

Honestly it seems pretty um... innocuous to me.

John said...

I think Ann is slipping into performance art. Any Palin thread is gaurenteed a ton of views. To be honest, it must be really hard to blog something interesting every day. Ann must be running out of ideas and interesting things to say. Like an aging rock star trying to remake that one great record from 20 years ago, Ann keeps rehashing Palin.

But since she has already talked Palin to death, she has to get increasingly shrill to attract the same intention. Give it a few months and Ann will be biting the heads off bats if she can figure out how to relate it to Palin.

Jim said...

As far as AP "fact-checking" the book, they assigned (at least) 11 reporters to the task and came up with 6 items that are either affirming of what Palin said (e.g., them finding a single trip in NY where she stayed in nice hotel pretty much confirms Palin's assertion that she "often" did not since there's no doubt that if they had found 20 instances they would detailed all of them.) or arguing points of view.

As far as her being contradicted by denials, it's pretty much public knowledge that Wallace and Schmidt were sabotaging her even prior to the election and have as much as admitted to doing so in the time since.

As to Ann's point about Palin's "loving America" line, it's a pretty far stretch to come up with the meaning that Ann argues. I suppose if you squint hard enough you could find the meaning there, but it's a tortured attempt to read something which pretty obviously isn't actually there.

I liken it to the whole "code words" racism argument that Leftists have been claiming Tea Partiers are using in the argument over health care. If you want to see it, then you can torture racism out of almost any statement; but it doesn't mean that it actually exists anywhere other than the mind of those claiming that it does.

kathleen said...

this is no performance art. It's an attempted rationalization and coverup of hangups unwittingly exposed.

John said...

"this is no performance art. It's an attempted rationalization and coverup of hangups unwittingly exposed."

Palin seems to drive women of Althouse's generation insane. It is important to remember Palin is a Generation X, not a boomer. She is not just better looking than Althouse, she is younger. And Palin never went to Yale or do any of the things Althouse's generation were told were so important for women to do. Yet, she is much more important right now than any boomer woman in the country outside of Hillary Clinton.

Perhaps Ann is just showing her age.

kathleen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kathleen said...

Don't forget Palin's fertility, large family and intact marriage. This is precisely what many women gave up for the chimera of career advancement, and in doing so they assumed that women like Palin would be barred from a high degree of professional achievement.

hdhouse said...

Synova said...
Wow, some people just can't stand other people to express anything positive about anyone, can they.

I'd rather hang out with and listen to positive people who say positive things and who express optimism."

Wow and what Synova? I'm all for optimism but I'm also all for brains and truth and honesty and reality in our elected or wannabe elected officials.


Sarah's feet unfortunately don't touch the ground Synova and I'm rather amazed that you, one of the more literate on this board, can't see it.

Amazed I say. Ya'betcha.

Synova said...

I think that Palin's fertility is absolutely an issue, Kathleen. Either it's women saying "I gave up kids, why didn't you have to give them up too, it's not fair!" or else the "people are bad" "save mother earth" anti-humanists insisting we "save" a world they won't be in, being angry for the exact same reason... "I gave up children, why didn't you have to give them up to? Now I gave them up for nothing because you went and had so many, you bitch!"

Seriously.

(I don't know why male politicians having so many kids doesn't get the same reaction, but there you go.)

Synova said...

Hdhouse, have I delivered my mythos rant lately?

The vision and belief has to come first. It is not smarter or more reasoned to insist that we give voice to the negative when we are building a mythos... a fantasy... to identify who we are as people or as a nation.

The mythos, the fantasy, the belief that we *are* certain things, that our Constitution represents truth of equality and freedom... those things are the only thing that make it possible to look at, for example, slavery, and say... this is not US... this does not FIT.

The intellectual who fusses that the mythos and the fantasy of national identity must be abandoned because it isn't TRUE... have not thought this out.

John said...

HD House,

You have to remember, liking Palin is becoming the best and indeed the way of giving the finger to the media and everyone who gave the country Obama. The more people like you and Althouse criticize her the more popular she will become. No amount of cricism no matter how vicious will change the fact that people like you and Althouse sold the country the village idiot in 2008.

John said...

"I don't know why male politicians having so many kids doesn't get the same reaction, but there you go."

Because some women hate other women more than they hate men. Intermural games are always the most vicious.

hdhouse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Synova said...

Thanks for loving America, or You're a great American, or America is about freedom and liberty and opportunity, or Everyone in America is Equal and we bow to no one...

What we humans are most of all is conformists.

It starts when we are small and gets obnoxious when we're teens, but it never goes away. And what we conform to the most is our own image of ourselves. This is what drives our choice of the clothes we wear or the car we purchase or the style of furniture in our house, where we shop for groceries and what we eat... and on and on.

hdhouse said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
"as there are no facts in Ms. Palin's book (sic!)" [sic]

You libtards don't understand the usage of "sic" and constantly misuse it all the time because you think it makes you look smart. All it does is expose your ignorance and make you look stupid."

Thank God, Dust Bunny that I really don't give a tinker's damn what you think about anything. I do stand corrected (sic!)[sic!] and do apologize for such an error. Next time you write something totally off the wall I'll just call it so dumb it has to be a mistake and let it go at that.

And what is a libtard by the way? It made the urban dictionary but it lacks urbane acceptance and frankly makes the user sound like a mindless sloganeering buffoon.

Would that be u?

John said...

"And what is a libtard by the way? It made the urban dictionary but it lacks urbane acceptance and frankly makes the user sound like a mindless sloganeering buffoon."

You are correct sir. But you should cut DBQ some slack. She was just trying to speak a language that liberals will understand.

hdhouse said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
"You libtards don't understand the usage [sic!] of "sic" and constantly misuse it all the time [sic!] because you think it makes you look [sic!] smart. All it does is expose your ignorance and make [sic!] you look [sic!] stupid."


wow honeybunch, keep writing....i'll get to use [sic!] so often when i stumble upon your lack of writing skills.

Adele Mundy said...

Taking advice on the English language from hdhouse is like taking beauty tips from Charla Nash.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

wow honeybunch, keep writing....i'll get to use [sic!] so often when i stumble upon your lack of writing skills.

You betcha. (Just because I know how fond you are of that phrase.)

You're welcome. Anything to keep you busy.

:-D

Jeremy said...

This twit still does not believe in evolution:

In another section of her book, Palin recounts a debate John McCain's campaign manager, Steve Schmidt, on the issue:

"But your dad's a science teacher," Schmidt objected. "Yes." "Then you know that science proves evolution," added Schmidt. "Parts of evolution," I said.

"But I believe that God created us and also that He can create an evolutionary process that allows species to change and adapt. I had just dared to mention the C-word: creationism. But I felt I was on solid factual ground."

Creationism..."on solid factual ground."

And people here think this idiot should be President of the United States?

DUH.

Jeremy said...

John - The ONLY language Dust Bunny speaks is pure redneck.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

John - The ONLY language Dust Bunny speaks is pure redneck.

What? You are so wrong. I am fluent in leet speak


j3r3/\/\'/ 1$ 4 r374rD3D $0(|< pUPP37

Also Spanish and Investment jargon with the best of 'em.

Ann Althouse said...

"If Ann's bio on Wiki is correct, and I know I take my life in my hands saying that, she has a very upper middle class background..."

I steeled myself and looked at the Wiki article, and there really is nothing in there to make you think I had an upper middle class background. Because I had an excellent undergrad GPA and got a high LSAT score, I went to a top 10 law school, and because I did very well there, I got a federal court clerkship and a Wall Street law firm job. Anyone from any background could do that. I was emphatically not encouraged to think of myself as having significant career potential when I was in high school. In fact, I was discriminated against in high school by teachers in ways that today would be the basis of an easy-to-win lawsuit. My parents believed in giving absolutely zero guidance and were completely laissez faire. I was inclined to be a low-profile artist and live like a hippie. It took me 5 years after college before I got the idea to go to law school. It was a revelation to me to discover that all my lack of direction could be turned around so quickly simply by doing well on a few law school exams, but that is the way it was.

hdhouse said...

Adele Mundy said...
Taking advice on the English language from hdhouse is like taking beauty tips from Charla Nash."

Oh Adele...such a strong comeback.

peter hoh said...

So Florida did come back, for a parting shot, if nothing else.

Maybeline said...

If I can reinterpret that comment in regard to Ann's social class, I'd like to add that Ann is most certainly a member of the creative / educated class. This class tends to look down on people in the middle to lower class range and has historically done so.

As an art school grad with a master's degree, I know this class of people very well and I know how much many of them disdain the rhetoric or white middle / lower class america.

This cultural / linguistic gap is certainly part of the outrage people feel for Sarah Palin.

Synova said...

""But your dad's a science teacher," Schmidt objected. "Yes." "Then you know that science proves evolution," added Schmidt. "Parts of evolution," I said."

And what isn't *precisely* factual about that statement?

Okay, nevermind, I'm not asking Jeremy who wouldn't know science from a hole in the ground... but Palin is more right than Schmidt simply on account of the fact that Schmidt makes an absolute statement and Palin doesn't.

Because one part of "evolution" is origins and science has not proven origins. Science *can't* prove it and will never prove it.

And people tie themselves up in knots arguing about evolution while using different definitions than each other and arguing about creationism while using different definitions than each other. It's utterly pointless and says a whole lot about the people who insist on doing it.

Jeremy... you might as well insist that anyone who believes in God at all is a moron... and see how far *that* gets your lovely Democrats. You might believe that Obama is a pure atheist telling us lies about his own faith to seduce the gullible, but not even you would tell us so, would you.

Synova said...

I mean.. golly gee whiz... Palin didn't even say, in that quote, that God *directed* evolution, only that God created a process that allowed it, which isn't a denial of evolution AT ALL.

And Jeremy gets all wet when he sees the "C-word".

peter hoh said...

I suppose there's no way to refute the idea that those who don't like Palin are biased against her because she didn't go to an elite university and doesn't talk fancy.

If that's what you want to see, you'll probably see it.

As for me, I'd be happy if we had a rule that restricted the frequency with which Yale and Harvard alums could occupy the White House.

kathleen said...

i'm watching dumb, fertile Sarah on Oprah. She has been working on her syntax and is pretty much kicking ass. Oprah looks grossed out, eyebrows permanently raised.

Adele Mundy said...

It is amusing if you know who Charla Nash is hd.

But one should not assume that you know anything.

Synova said...

Peter... I'm sure not everyone is prejudiced that way, but I do think that many people are. Just as many people do not at all trust someone who doesn't give off a "common folk" vibe.

Adele Mundy said...

As a long time lurker, it is clear to me that Ann dislikes blue collar people. I recall the problems she is always having with waitresses and baristas who are not sufficiently subservient.

Her favorite phrase must be “Don’t you know who I am?”

wv: dishati:
which is what the waitress gets from washing the forks over and over again when Althouse bitches at her.

chickenlittle said...

Oprah looks grossed out, eyebrows permanently raised.

@kathleen: so how does the part where Oprah seem to "get" Palin play when not edited to do so? See Synova's excellent take down of Oprah here

Paddy O. said...

Ann is most certainly a member of the creative / educated class. This class tends to look down on people in the middle to lower class range and has historically done so.

I've been hanging around the Althouse blog on and off since before the 2004 election. I've never gotten the sense Ann "looks down on people" simply because they are "in the middle to lower class range". The key for her, different than a lot of academics, is that she also doesn't idealize the poor (while disdaining them in practice).

She takes people as people.

My impression about Palin is it's not about class at all. It's a feminist argument being made. One can argue that Palin is playing a role, specifically designed to use her "aw shucks" and good looks to advance her career. Playing, at times, the part of the victimized woman in the midst of mean, tough mean. This playing of a role is what, I think, gets Althouse. So she levels her critiques, which increase as Palin hones this approach.

Palin right now is the most significant woman candidate out there, and as such a target of discussion in terms of how she is approaching her political rise.

It's not at all about class--as the "pose" critique was also thrown at John Kerry.

I say this as a strong Palin supporter, watching and listening to see how well Palin rises to the occasion.

traditionalguy said...

Maybeline...You are sucking wind on your determination that The Professor looks down on common folks. She are one. She is also the best that the American system produces by valuing its intelligent hard workers who accept and understands the boundaries we all live by. She also encountered a sexism boundary that was thought normal in the Greatest Generation but was abolished just in time for her talents to flourish. A great teacher is a rare and an extremely valuable commodity that the Palinista claque needs on its side to win. So why do you use cheap attacks against one of them?

kathleen said...

The thanksgiving question sort of ended cute. The best moment so far is when Palin calls Katie "the perky one" with much sarcasm. Oprah sent strong vibes of disapproval at that, but Palin didn't seem to care. heh.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You are sucking wind on your determination that The Professor looks down on common folks

I've never gotten that impression from my time lurking and posting on Althouse. I get the sense that she looks down on purposely obtuse people.

kathleen said...

eesh. Palin just talked about how strong her marriage is with Todd and Oprah reels back like she just got punched in the gut.

Paddy O. said...

tradguy and DBQ, exactly. And much more succinct than my windy effort.

WV: ovagam. I think this was discussed in last month's Cosmo. Ten steps were suggested for the best one.

Maybeline said...

TG,

People are complex. One can be an inspiring person, one can have endured discrimination and still go on to discriminate against others.

Yes, if I haven't made myself clear enough - I do think Ann has demonstrated sexism toward the three women I mentioned in an earlier comment. And I also think Ann is an impressive, smart and savvy woman who has even demonstrated a level of feminist thought.

There you go. Make of that what you will. It's not always all good or all bad with people, ya know.

Adele Mundy said...

Wow Paddy O, if you really think Ann Althouse has the common touch then you need to seek reading comphrension courses.

Review any of the posts where she meets service people or working class people. Or even someone wearing a pair of shorts. She reeks of condescension.

You seem like a very humble and generous and religious person Paddy. Althouse not so much.

I do enjoy reading your posts about religion. I always learn something. Thank you.

Paddy O. said...

Her favorite phrase must be “Don’t you know who I am?”

I believe it is more accurately stated as, "Me, a law professor!"

Adele Mundy said...

I just think that she is jealous that Sarah has more conservative fan boys than she does and now it puts a twist in her knickers.

You see the grinds always hate the cute cheerleader girls.

kathleen said...

lol Adele. I've often got the feeling Althouse would probably prefer there were no female commenters. (and this thread certainly isn't going to change that)

Palladian said...

I'm low-class and Althouse has never looked down on me. Hell she even enjoyed a bit of slumming when she visited my tiny crumbling Brooklyn loft!

Plus she couldn't look down on me anyway because I'm taller than she is.

Synova said...

"Palin just talked about how strong her marriage is with Todd and Oprah reels back like she just got punched in the gut."

One of the very first video clips I ever saw of Palin was an old one. Todd had just won one of the Iron Dog races. Sarah was wearing her hoochi-hoop earrings and chewing gum. A reporter asked her what she was going to "let" Todd do with the prize money or something like that... something on the "ha ha women rule the roost" notion of him getting permission from her for his expensive hobby. She answered, chewing that gum, and said something very like... why would I be telling him what he can or can't do?

Our culture makes jokes about disrespecting men and I absolutely appreciated that she didn't just go along with it.

There is probably a very good reason that Todd is supportive of her.

Adele Mundy said...

That's why I was afraid to comment for so long. She always fights with the women especially if they are popular.

I think that is why you do not see much of Ruth Anne or reader-i-am or Victoria or a lot of other girls who used to post here.

Paddy O. said...

Adele, thanks for the kind words.

Like I said I've been hanging around here since 2004. So, all I can say is my impression, but it is an impression built on a lot of years.

I don't know if I would say Ann has the "common touch". She is an educated, artistic academic.

At the same time, I think she shows a lot of respect for people across the spectrum.

Maybe the best way of saying this is that Ann doesn't suffer fools. Some professors really learn this as in the classroom there really are a lot of fools.

Sometimes these are blue-collar. Sometimes they are not. Her treatment of the upper class John Kerry shows this. And I can almost guarantee that a brilliant law school student who comes from a blue collar background but shows immense potential and gives great effort would find Ann a great mentor.

While there may be times Ann is dismissive or condescending I just don't think these can be limited to a class issue at all. It's about performance of a task, character, poise. Wherever that may be found.

I think this is shown precisely on those religious issues. There's a lot of religious differences around here, and there's a pretty strong academic cultural dismissal of religion among many. But, I have always gotten the sense that Ann is respectful and open, and even inviting for anyone to share their perspectives, whatever they might be, wherever they might come from.

I'm not as much defending Ann here as suggesting that if you read her as following a class snobbery, then you'll be missing what she is doing and miss some of the insights of her blogging approach.

I grew up in a fair amount of financial struggle and poverty, so I'm pretty sensitive to these issues too at times. And I've never felt like Ann is predictably snobby. The fact is that a lot of waiters are abysmal and might even be themselves jerks or feel like they are above doing the job they are doing--and express this in their service. Poor people as much as rich people can be absurd, and it's often interesting to point out the particular ways different folks express their absurdity or inconsistency.

It's also true that Ann didn't recently marry an academic. She married an intelligent man who makes her laugh and think and enjoys the beauties of life with her. That's what counts. And these kinds of people can be found across class distinctions.

Adele Mundy said...

She did not marry a liberal professor because their penises don't work.

At least that is my experience.

You are much too kind Paddy O.

Adele Mundy said...

Ann should not be so angry with Sarah. It looks like she still has some loyal fan boys left.

traditionalguy said...

Adele and Maybeline...Thanks for the laughs. The Professor's distain for men in shorts is a joke we understand. The teacher in Anne loves to sharpen up young men's style for them so that they will look successful. We love her for caring enough to tell us the truth. You duo of condemning by faint praise actors are a hoot. Hang around here and you might learn something. Do you know anything about Larry Meade from Indiana via Cincinatti? The last time I checked, the ever so subtle Meade was not an aristocrat surveying us lesser mortals. Also do you believe that Bob Dylan is a Hibbing, Minnesota common guy or another better than us put down artist? You two need to apologise for being used to plant doubts in our minds and get a life.

Adele Mundy said...

I am sorry if I was out of line traditionalguy. I just know a snob when I see one. I remember them from high school.

But I think she is doing something else. That's why she turned on a dime on Palin. It was to get people to post. It worked because I did.

But don't worry I am sure she loves you best.

Thanks for the advice as to how to spend my time. I will be back on the road soon so I won't be bothering you.

kathleen said...

"But don't worry I am sure she loves you best."

lol!

Adele Mundy said...

Men can be so silly kathleen.

kathleen said...

aw. it's kinda sweet, don't you think Adele? like golden retrievers...

Adele Mundy said...

More like Labadors with all of that drool all over the place.

traditionalguy said...

Adele Mundy...Can we still remain friends? Breaking up is so hard to do, although I could tell that you once loved and lost a commoner like me. I dedicate Shakespeare's Sonnet #51 to you as read by WolfMan Jack.

Adele Mundy said...

Of course traditionalguy. You are a very astute comment person. I enjoyed you erudite discussion with Ritmo Brasileiro the other night. It was civil and entertaining and enlightening.

Paddy O. said...

We all know Ann loves Meade the most.

The rest of us are mostly still here to win Lem's affection.

Though with vbspurs back around, I suspect there's a renewed split in hoped for attention.

What's also interesting/distinctive about folks here, for the most part, is there's no insistance on agreement.

I think Ann is wrong about Palin. I'd vote for Palin right now if given a chance--not because I'm sure she's oh so dreamy, but because I'd be really curious how she would live up to the job. She has to do a lot more, with a lot more to work with, to change my mind.

I do admit to being a fanboy. But it's all directed different direction than this blog.

Jeremy said...

Paddy-Ohhh - "I'd vote for Palin right now if given a chance--not because I'm sure she's oh so dreamy, but because I'd be really curious how she would live up to the job. She has to do a lot more, with a lot more to work with, to change my mind."

What the hell does that even mean?

You'd vote for her now, but "She has to do a lot more, with a lot more to work with, to change my mind."

Sorry, Dude...but your comment makes absolutely no sense.

Paddy O. said...

Sorry, Jeremy. That was unclear writing on my part. I was assuming the pronoun of the larger context rather than that immediate. That's sloppy. I meant Ann has "to do a lot more."

Better put, "Ann has to do a lot more, with a lot more to work with, to change my mind."

That's still a bit sloppy. More clearly, Ann hasn't convinced me with her posts thus far. She needs to write more on the subject, with more substantive interaction with Sarah Palin's whole book, or extensive interviews, or broader record.

I'd be curious about Ann's response to the Oprah interview, for instance.

My response to Palin overall is admittedly based on an impression which makes me think she'd live up to the task. Basically the same sort of reason a lot of people voted for Obama. I'd be really curious how she would do, and I think she would do better. That's arguable, I know. But so is all of politics.

Paddy O. said...

"She did not marry a liberal professor because..."

Precisely why as I continue on in my PhD I'm strongly holding onto my conservative values.

WV: it just takes desplinc

AlphaLiberal said...

Watched some of that interview, the part about how terrible Katie Couric was for asking questions and everything.

John McCain owes America a big apology.

Ann Althouse said...

"I'm low-class..."

Yes, I noticed that in your demeanor, shopping the perfume counters at Bergdorf.