November 13, 2009
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186 comments:
Yeah, well, it's about time.
"pirate whore" -- Dang! Wish I'd come up with that one.
Well, how can you withstand the cogency of that argument?! It has all the force of a string of obscenities.
I consider Ann a bilat. (wv)
OK, the libtard pirate whore thing is just offensive.
But you did vote for him.
Trey
wv= surspess, how I would spell suppress
"Althouse is a phoney (sic) feminist" -- does that mean she just phones it in?
Saint Sarah must be the third rail of Conservative politics -- brava professor for publicly noting a flaw.
Dissent will not be tolerated!
And that was more creative and civil than what Ashen called you in your own comments.
Yes Althouse voted for Obama -- the choice was between him and McCain, and McCain had already melted down in a crisis. For decades I've had to hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two (least of three) evils -- what else can anyone do?
Lucky pirate.
"pirate whore" - sounds like a great Halloween costume.
After Ace notes Ann Althouse's obsession with Sarah Palin's deference to John McCain during the campaign, she responds... by quoting the nastiest stuff in the comments.
When you've got people like AlphaLiberal and Freder Frederson cheering you on, and you're resorting to Sullivanesque tactics to defend yourself, it might be time to step back and reconsider your position.
Ann,
You get pissed off when other people site your commentors as you. And rightfully so.
Isn't that what you just did? That language is from a comment not the blog post. The blog post was highly reasonable criticism of you. The comment wasn't. So why did you site to the comment? Aren't you doing exactly what you constantly whine about other people doing? Have you lost your mind?
McCain didn't "melt down in a crisis." I'll give you that he was overly dramatic in suspending his campaign, but at least he treated the matter seriously.
Obama? He voted present as always. Just as he had always done. Just as he's done every day since.
If the choice is between the drama queen, and the king of doing nothing; long live the queen!
Anne,
If you are going to just quote the nasty stuff in the comments, you really are a pirate whore, whatever that is. That is bullshit. Has Alpha Liberal hacked into your account and started posting as you?
AC245 -- If you think Althouse quoted that quote because it was the nastiest you don't know Althouse.
"Obama? He voted present as always. Just as he had always done. Just as he's done every day since."
Just lik ehe is doing in Afghanistan. Every day people die over there while Obama dithers refusing to pull out but also refusing to give them support they need to win.
Now you've done it. You know Ann, that the teabaggers are now going to be burning you in effigy in the street along with her wickidness, one, NANCY PELOSI. I bet you will never say another bad word about Sarah again, once you feel the wrath of the white-haired mobs sent to SAVE TEH CONSTITUTION!
"Now you've done it. You know Ann, that the teabaggers are now going to be burning you in effigy in the street along with her wickidness, one, NANCY PELOSI. I bet you will never say another bad word about Sarah again, once you feel the wrath of the white-haired mobs sent to SAVE TEH CONSTITUTION!"
Nice to see you have something intelligent to add to the topic of the propriety of quoting comments. Are all liberal brain damaged to the point of retardation? Just wondering.
That if Palin failed to act like a total dick and disrespect the clear, 230+ year understanding that the presidential candidate is the decision-maker as regards the campaign, and the vice presidential candidate is an adviser only. . .
I don't think this was true, strictly speaking, for the full 230+ years. Weren't the early VPs the presidents' opponents? As in, the runner up in the electoral college?
I suspect we changed this around the time we realised that presidents could be assassinated. On the other hand, it still worked with Lincoln -- they got that Democrat, Johnson, instead, which was a good bargain for the ex-Confederacy.
The Ace of Spades site (and of course Ace himself) is no more right wing than Ann's favorite: The Fat Radio Entertainer...nor the closet gay Drudge character.
They all run together in a pack, and if you follow Ace or his sycophant crowd (just like Ann's), you'll read and hear the same crass right wing drivel Ann listens to every day with Rush and reads with Drudge.
They don't care if Ann loves one of their own. They're entire goal is to throw anyone who disagrees with them or, heaven forbid, badmouths one of their heroes, under the wing nut bus.
Exactly as it is here.
Henry - Can you suck any harder?
You're dirty?
I'm with Former Law Student (3:19) on this one.
Palin's a charismatic politician given vile treatment by the media. She had a good record in Alaska as an independent clean-government conservative. All this is in her favor.
But please, people, she's not perfect and has many obvious flaws. We already have one political cult in this country. We don't need a second one to counter it.
"But please, people, she's not perfect and has many obvious flaws. We already have one political cult in this country. We don't need a second one to counter it."
She was clearly naive and not a good judge of character (maybe that is where her daughter gets it from). She should have politly told Nicole or whoever she was to go fuck herself and told Katy Couric she was sorry she was a perky has been with fading looks but she was too busy doing important things to grant her an interview.
Palin clearly screwed this up. But as screwups go, it is not like she is going to try KSM in federal court or passed a $700 billion stimulus that is now viewed as being worthless or something.
"pirate whore" - sounds like a great Halloween costume.
Maybe chip ahoy could Photoshop a pirate whore costume onto one of Althouse's flickr pics.
"Pirate whore" is an insult from Anchorman. It's a joke.
Wow! Talk about stirring the pot. The Professor has an eruption stirred up in Palinistan. As Clint Eastwood said about the bar owner Greely in Unforgiven..."If she is gonna treat my friend that way, then she should have armed herself." We need a couple of quick posts of calming water scenes and pretty flowers.
Now come on Althouse... I agree with you about Palin excerpt(but think we should wait till the book comes out) but consider this...
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/03/ann-althouse-has-a-lot-of-anti-semitic-comments.html
John, I voted for McCain and would have voted for Palin if she led the ticket. Obama's been a disaster. But Palin is not just a foil to Obama.
BTW, I wish every blog had their comments turned off... or at least had comments separated from content...
Incidentally, I defended you, Ms. Althouse, in the comments, saying, for example, "I treat her seriously because she's generally a serious person."
I also tipped you by email about the post criticizing you.
I think it's pretty lame that rather than deal with the argument made against you, you've cherry-picked one gag out of the comments -- a joke from Anchorman -- as representative, I suppose I am to take it, of the tenor of the criticism of your post, and, that being the sort of criticism you've gotten, thereby disobligating any response except to point out that someone used a dirty word.
Laaaame.
"They don't care if Ann loves one of their own. They're entire goal is to throw anyone who disagrees with them or, heaven forbid, badmouths one of their heroes, under the wing nut bus."
As opposed to your thoughful, reasoned and fair commentary.
@Jeremy. Read Ace's 3:38, not to mention Meade's 3:14. Get a clue.
Sadly after this Ann can no longer complain when lefty blogs take the more derranged quotes from Cederford and Victoria and portray them as being endorsed by Ann.
You really screwed up on this one Ann. I don't know what the hell you were thinking.
And Ace said, when asked why take Althouse seriously: "Because she is, generally, a serious person, and furthermore usually an ally, especially in the real war, the war against stupidity."
I agree.
And I also never take posts here as definitive opinions on anything or arguments I'm meant to be persuaded by to any particular conclusion.
Nor do I get upset if I disagree.
If I had to guess or put any money on the issue... I'd say that Althouse is probably enjoying the notoriety.
And nothing wrong with that.
Also I agree with this statement from FLS completely.
"Yes Althouse voted for Obama -- the choice was between him and McCain, and McCain had already melted down in a crisis. For decades I've had to hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two (least of three) evils -- what else can anyone do?"
Gotta agree with John. Before I clicked through the link, the tags on the post led me to conclude that Ace had called Althouse a dirty libtard pirate whore.
But I also wonder whether Ace actually read the entire post in question. Little of it discussed things which Palin was specifically ordered to do by the McCain campaign. Much of the Althouse posted focused on how Palin allowed herself to be persuaded (not ordered) to do the Katie Couric interview.
Palin says she "didn't really have a say" in what news outlets she went on, but then she talks about Nicolle Wallace "pushing" her to do Couric. If she didn't really have a say, what need was there to push her? Just say: "Governor, here's the interview line-up we've set up for you" and be done with it.
Palin also talks about how she "had to trust" Wallace's experience. Again, that's not language indicating she was ordered to. If you are trusting somebody because of their experience, that means that you are the one making the decision. Palin doesn't say "I had to trust her, because the McCain people told me I had to do what she said."
Then there's the bit where Palin says that she was told that she couldn't give a "shout out" to the Bush White House homeland security efforts, but that she never knew whether that was "Nicolle's call." If you want to be the Vice President, and you think something is important to do, then you find out WHO is telling you no, you track it down, you demand an explanation. You don't just go "oh, ok, since somebody somewhere, for reasons that have never been explained to me, decided not to do this, I won't do it." Either she didn't feel that strongly about it, or, as Althouse suggests, she's got no clue about how to stand up and be counted.
The mess I see, in the aftermath of the campaign, is that Palin went rogue rather than actually confronting Sen. McCain and his top staff about the decisions they were making. When you're in a high-ranking position like that, yes, of course you've got be loyal. But you also have to NOT BE MEEK. If you've got a better way of doing things, you think, then you have an obligation to fight for that (internally), and demand either that they adopt your way, convince you of their way, or flat-out tell you to shut up and follow the orders.
In the excerpt quoted, I just don't see any indication that Gov. Palin ever tried to assert herself at all. She disagreed with decisions being made, but nonetheless meekly accepted those decisions without so much as requiring that they be communicated to her directly by the Presidential candidate himself or even his chief of staff.
I've been a strong Palin supporter in the past, but her own words so far are convincing me that she really isn't ready for prime time.
The clear sarcasm of the linked comment aside, the post that it went with was a reasonable, civil, and to me persuasive dissection of Althouse's "Palin is Dumb" post.
If Althouse is the pirate, Meade is the booty...and here at Althouse, it's all about the booty!
"Smelly Pirate Hooker
Ace,
To be fair the actual term in the movie was "pirate hooker":
Ron Burgundy: You are a smelly pirate hooker.
We're all going insane.
Ace of Spades wrote: I don't know if Althouse, being a tenured (I assume) professor, really has a "boss" anymore, or if her status means that she's essentially the Boss of Herself. So perhaps she has forgotten: Whether you are male or female, and whether your boss is male or female, the boss gets his way.
We know, Ace. That's why we say, "Yes'm, Boss Ma'am, whatever you sez, Boss Ma'am." We've got that subordinate thing down over here.
PatHMV,
If she had asserted herself and gotten into it with them, she would have looked like she wasn't a team player. Also, it was her first time doing a national campaign. You can understand why she didn't want to be seen as not a team player and also figured they were more experienced and knew what they were doing. So she went along against her better judgment. It was clearly the wrong decision to make in retrospect. McCain's staff were incompetant and her instincts where right. But given what she knew at the time, it wasn't an unreasonable decision.
Damn you Reader!
AllenS. Agreed.
While I think the professor should have been more clear in labeling to show that the quote came from the comments section rather than Ace himself, I don't know how one could have read this blog for any length of time and not recognized that Althouse is not complaining or whining about the name-calling. She clearly finds it amusing and got a good chuckle out of it... witness Meade's (her husband, for the uninitiated) first comment.
I'm pretty sure Ace is drunk on Scotch, Scotchity, Scotch, Scotch.
Now ace has an anchorman joke from the comments that he can to link to dis Anne.
Ignoring the food fight, I think Ace had the hint of a point there: Palin acted subordinate to McCain on the ticket because she was subordinate to McCain on the ticket.
From the looks of how things are going on the Facebook channel, it might have been better to arrange the ticket the other way.
I should have said, regarding my video link: Probably NSFW unless you have headphones.
"The clear sarcasm of the linked comment aside, the post that it went with was a reasonable, civil, and to me persuasive dissection of Althouse's "Palin is Dumb" post."
I agree. Ace did an thorough and intelligent treatment of Althouse's post. It wasn't a fisking.
I imagine she'd be pleased.
"I don't know how one could have read this blog for any length of time and not recognized that Althouse is not complaining or whining about the name-calling."
Or read Ace of Spades for any length of time and not immediately recognized the comment for what it was.
John... precisely the point Althouse was making. People who meekly accept decisions with which they profoundly disagree "against their better judgment" are not strong enough to be President (or Vice President) of the United States. People who are more concerned with being a "team player" (i.e., being liked, being popular) than with advocating for what's best, what's right, are ultimately weak decision makers.
Did she ever talk to John McCain and ask if he had really thought through all of these decisions? There's simply no indication in the excerpts that she ever actually demanded to be heard and presented her views. Had she done that, and then accepted the decisions of McCain after having made sure he had given her arguments a hearing himself, then fine, acquiescence at that point is appropriate. But to never even try? To meekly accept the dictates of others on very important matters, with which you profoundly disagree? That's valuing popularity over making good decisions... a very, VERY dangerous trait in a President.
Althouse is just stirring the pot again.
Aaarrgh!
Jayne_Cobb: Sorry ... . ; )
I have to agree with some of the commenters here who have pointed out that Ann had a chance to dispute even a single word that Ace posted.
Instead, she chose to find a comment and post it without expressly noting that it was a commenter - not Ace - who said it.
It's Sullivanesque to write a post this way, and far beneath her usual standards.
Did his criticism of your Palin post really sting so much that the only response you could come up with was attempting to tar him with something a commenter said?
For shame.
PatHMV,
Even if what you say is true, is it perhaps not possible that this is a valuable experience for her. Not everyone starts out as Eisenhower. Even Eisenhower wasn't Eisenhower when he started. These kinds of experiences are part of growing as a person and a leader.
The worst than can be said is that Palin had a lot to learn when she accepted the nomination. I don't think it disqualifies her from future consideration.
I think Althouse was just trying to show her skin is thick. I click on links, I don't read tags, so I knew it was a commenter right away.
former law student (just in case you miss it clicking on links from the other thread):
McCain knew Bristol was pregnant BEFORE and all about Trooper-gate he made his VP selection.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/
Palin acted subordinate to McCain on the ticket because she was subordinate to McCain on the ticket.
To an extent this is true, but what is also true from the passages quoted is that Palin asserted her independence not by confronting McCain's handlers, but by working around them. We have the calls to Limbaugh, Ingraham, and Hannity.
There's also the grating idea that Palin is swayed by Nicolle Wallace's most idiotic ideas -- primarily that Couric needed some esteem boosting. If Palin didn't call crap on that in 2008, why not? And why can't she at least call crap on that now?
Why, in other words, is Palin making excuses about how she was handled, and not making the argument that Ace makes for her -- that she was the subordinate figure in the campaign.
That wouldn't fit the title of memoir very well.
* * *
Thinking this over, I would add that whatever McCain's staff screwed up, they nailed one thing -- Palin's convention speech. It will be interesting to see what the memoir says about that.
BTW - just because Obama is a socialist and pretty dumb himself doesn't mean Sarah Palin is qualified to be POTUS. I'd take Tim Pawlenty or Mitt Romney any day over the Alaskan hick.
FLS - the theocons just can't accept that America will never again elect a theocrat like George W Bush again. Let them keep flogging Sarah Palin at us, we'll laugh at them!
Alex:
She's more qualified than he is.
Ace and Ann wrestling = Pay Per View cool.
There all haters, Ann. You go girl!!!!
Vicki from Pasadena
Alex said:
"...Obama is a socialist and pretty dumb himself..."
Truth Dat!
You won't be laughing when she beats Obama in 2012.
Aaarrrrgh!
Oops, forgot the apostrophe. They're all haters.
"FLS - the theocons just can't accept that America will never again elect a theocrat like George W Bush again. Let them keep flogging Sarah Palin at us, we'll laugh at them!"
Barry keeps dropping the polls and America will elect damn near anyone besides him.
There is no way Palin can beat Obama in 2012. She might as well forget about it. In fact, she should spare herself the humiliation and not run for any office! She should continue doing the speaking tour for dumb idiots!
Alex:
There are several ways (TRO just mentioned one way). If there weren't, you would simply ignore her.
"I have to agree with some of the commenters here who have pointed out that Ann had a chance to dispute even a single word that Ace posted.
Instead, she chose to find a comment and post it without expressly noting that it was a commenter - not Ace - who said it."
I'd put money on she got the SNL (?) reference and thought it was funny.
No one has a sense of humor today.
This should be addressed Gibson/Couric style:
Ann, your critics say that you're a DIRTY LIBTARD PIRATE WHORE!!!1!!
Are you a dirty libtard pirate whore? Can you prove that you are clean, not a libtard, do not wear a parrot on your shoulder and have never accepted money for sex?
Can you tell us which soaps you use and why you wear a bandana?
Can you, hmmm? (peering over my glasses)
I think that the fact that some on the right are attacking Ann, and that she has been repeatedly attacked by the left, is indicia that Ann is more moderate than most of us.
There is no way Palin can beat Obama in 2012. She might as well forget about it. In fact, she should spare herself the humiliation and not run for any office! She should continue doing the speaking tour for dumb idiots!
Hey, at the rate he is going, almost anyone the Republicans put up will be able to beat Obama in 2012.
So, keep dreaming about Palin going down in flames in three years.
I'm not afraid of Sarah Palin, I'm laughing at her and her pathetic fans. LOL@
Palin: blah blah blah
Althouse: blah blah blah
libtard: blah blah blah
dumb: blah blah blah
This is how this entire blog eruption looks to real people. (As opposed to blog junkies like me.)
Who cares?
I don't care so much I can't believe that I'm actually writing this comment.
I'll write here the next time there's actually something interesting to write about.
Blah Out
Bruce - honestly I could care less about Sarah Palin and her aw shucks hillbilly family. I've got more important things to think about like my private equity firm.
Mark Daniels - screw regular people! Blog junkies are where it's at man!
""Oh...did I mention Althouse is a dirty libtard pirate whore?""
Yes Althouse finally admitted it.
Ace of Spades gave Althouse a very serious and fair argument. It's treated very unfairly by Althouse, though. This is all a very disappointing episode for Althouse. I never read that blog, ace of spades, but maybe I should.
She said she had an argument to demonstrate that Palin is dumb... but her premises are not all that reliable, nor do they even show that Palin's dumb... just that she took orders well.
Althouse, you can shrug off the arguments, pretend they aren't that serious, and all that. At the end of the day, you were obnoxious. You are obnoxious, and you call it stirring the pot, but it's really just ugliness and a lack of creativity.
HAHAHAHA!
You Althouse Hillbillies are a bunch of dumb hicks. Ann is playing you for the rubes that you are. Has Ann ever laid out any conservative principles she ascribes to? She gave no principled reasons for not supporting McCain. It was definitely not because he was not conservative enough. I have never read Ann defend any moral or political principles. It is all American Idol for her.
But you are all just Ann's little playthings. But don't worry, she will quickly come up with a lot of conservative red meat to get you all lathered up again in a rapid sweat so that you will forget about this in no time.
I promise you-Ann will vote for Obama three years from now. Though, she will go on and on about how she is doing so grudgingly.
HAHAHAHA! Dumb Althouse Hillbillies!
John - yes Althouse has lost her mind, so what? Going craaaaaaazy is part of the appeal sometimes. You should really try it you checkpants Republican!
John, I never said it did. But it does mean that I will be looking closely to see if she learned the appropriate lessons.
One of my primary theories on presidential elections is that the winning candidate tends to be the one who appears to be the least "managed" by consultants. Bob Dole lost in part because he was clearly just flying around the country saying what he was told to say. I read an exchange he had with a reporter once, where the reporter directly confronted the Senator with the fact that something he had just said was diametrically opposed to what he had been arguing for the past 30 years in the Senate. Dole's response was "that's what they told me to say."
While Obama's campaign positions were heavily, heavily poll-based, he always came across as his own man. Perhaps this was possible only because most people had no prior reference point for him, so he was free to entirely reinvent himself, if necessary. But McCain, the whole campaign he seemed constrained by his advisers, as if he had been ordered to stop being himself, a bit. He was no longer the "maverick" he once seemed to be.
Palin here admits that she let herself be mostly controlled by the campaign staff, until she decided to "go rogue."
Great, a blog fight!
Meanwhile, if Althouse would like to actually have an impact and would like to show his readers how Ace isn't helping their cause, point out that he took a pass on this plan that could have blocked Obama. Over a month before the election, I tried to get a series of major r/w bloggers - including Ace, Instapundit and others - interested in that highly effective plan.
While a guest blogger at Ace promoted that plan from comments into the post, Ace never pushed it and no one else there did either. And, no one on that list promoted it either, despite the fact that it could have prevented Obama from becoming president.
The same low-wattage behavior continues today with many of those same r/w bloggers encouraging their charges to wave loopy signs rather than, for instance, trying to block amnesty.
Alex:
Who said that you were afraid of Sarah Palin? The voices in your head are talking again?
Ace makes some good points over there by defended Palin better than she did herself in that excerpt Ann cited to formulate her post. But that's just it. Ace is a blogger and Palin the candidate with the book who could have said what Ace said but didn't in that portion Ann had to work with upon which her opinion was based. If Palin does as well as Ace does elsewhere in her book then fine, but in that bit she didn't.
Ace says as tenured Ann is immune from being fired, a luxury Palin didn't have as subordinate to whatshisface, um, oh yeah, McCain. Himself. But Ann is asserting a smart person could have handled that, subordinate or not, and at least questioned more forcefully the why behind those decisions she didn't care for. Ace asks what is he missing. What is he missing? Palin was a little bit naïve to not be able to handle all that, McCain needed her at that point as much as she needed him after all. And I hope you appreciate my going to the trouble of putting those two little dots on top of the i in word naïve.
I resent that charge. Althouse is not at all dirty.
Sarah Palin
Ann Althouse
One of these people has cleaned up a corrupt state government, made millions in publishing, and earned the support of millions of people despite having no powerful family connections, wealth by birth, ivy league credentials, etc. This person has withstood tremendous pressure, and yet has actually increased her influence. Legislation is changed based on her complaints, and several governors, senator candidates, and more all seek her endorsement. She earned everything she has.
The other is an affirmative action hire from the days that education truly collapsed at the University level, and has tenure at a lower level law school, thus has very low pressure to produce anything.
Neither of these people are dumb, but one is willing to apply themselves and make a difference, and the other is calling her dumb for what's in the first's book... that the latter never read.
The left will call her a ridiculous non-threat... these same people haven't accomplished a tenth of what she has.
Yes, Chip Ahoy, I appreciate that. In the prior thread, I used the analogy of Jimmy Stewart in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington." Whether Palin is just putting on an act (I doubt it), or is the real deal, America is going to really need that in three years.
I think this entire brouhaha has just been an excuse to do something other than work on a Friday. (A Friday the 13th, to boot.)
Althouse is now approaching 500 comments just on Palin posts over the past 24 hours. Way to go team! Volokh doesn't have a prayer.
I follow both Althouse and Ace of Spades everyday, so so this is like my personal world series!
But Ann, instead of arguing with the content of Ace's blog, you simply dumpster dived into the comments for a juicy morsel to display to your readers as a trump card. Isn't that what Andrew Sullivan did to you a few weeks ago, and weren't you crying foul on him?
I just read Ace of Spades post, and he totally nailed it. Ann - you should apologize to Sarah Palin right now and then make up by having hot lesbian sex while Titus videotapes it.
Seriously... AGAIN.
NO ONE has a sense of humor today? (I'm not including Althouse *or* Ace.)
What ever (most of you) had for breakfast today... let me know so I can be sure to skip it.
Palin was a little bit naïve to not be able to handle all that, McCain needed her at that point as much as she needed him after all.
Chip, I'm going to come at you like a spider monkey!
Terrible, a car wreck!
Meanwhile, if gawkers would like to actually have an impact..
Matt - I'm starting to lose respect for Ann. I mean it's one thing maintaining her faux "cruel neutrality" business, but now she's aping Andrew Sullivan? That's beyond the pale.
Yummy, an ice cream cone!
Meanwhile, if you would like to actually have an impact... .
Matt:
The way I am reading it, Ann didn't do the diving (Ace E-MAILED her the comment as a joke) and she just posted it. What Ace IS upset about is that Ann is not responding to the substance of his criticisms. Seriously, people, lighten up.
Cute, a new baby!
Meanwhile, if gawkers you like to actually have an impact... .
Alex:
Is that one of your other multiple personalities?
"I follow both Althouse and Ace of Spades everyday, so so this is like my personal world series!"
I do too. Which is why I'm so baffled by the emotional responses.
"But Ann, instead of arguing with the content of Ace's blog, you simply dumpster dived into the comments for a juicy morsel to display to your readers as a trump card. Isn't that what Andrew Sullivan did to you a few weeks ago, and weren't you crying foul on him?"
Why do you think she's interested in disputing Ace? Why do you think she's trying to convince anyone of anything?
Do you think that Meade would think it was funny if Althouse didn't?
Geez.
She posted a video today and told us to watch to the end because the whole thing was funny and ended with Austin Power-ish sparking boobies of fiery death!
Egad, people. It's a clue.
Oh shit, a shark!
Meanwhile, if you would like to actually have an impact... .
Charles - fuck! puppies.
LOL, it's a joke!
Meanwhile, if you would like to actually have an impact... .
"Oh...did I mention Althouse is a dirty libtard pirate whore?"
dirty > You seem well groomed to me 0 pts
lib > You did vote for Obama. 0.5 pts
tard > see above 0.5 pts
pirate > As far as I know you've never called a commenter a bilge rat, never buckled a swash and you don't have an eyepatch and or a pet parrot. 0 pts
whore > stalkerish wishful thinking clearly 0 pts.
Adding it up this slur nets 1 out of 5 possible points. Poor showing.
Wow. Andrew Sullivan, Glenn Greenwald/Thomas Ellers/"Wilson"/The Boys from Rio, Charles Johnson, and Media Matters approve of your tactics, Professor.
If this is what passes for serious debate in the Hallowed halls of Wisconsin Law, I am glad I went elsewhere.
You, a law professor!
Meanwhile, if you would like to actually have an impact... .
Wow. Andrew Sullivan, Glenn Greenwald/Thomas Ellers/"Wilson"/The Boys from Rio, Charles Johnson, and Media Matters approve of your tactics, Professor.
Ewww I hate being on the same side of anything as Chucky. Makes me almost want to defend Sarah Palin, just because!
I think it's pretty lame that rather than deal with the argument made against you, you've cherry-picked one gag out of the comments -- a joke from Anchorman -- as representative, I suppose I am to take it, of the tenor of the criticism of your post, and, that being the sort of criticism you've gotten, thereby disobligating any response except to point out that someone used a dirty word.
Ace,
I see no implication whatsoever in this post that the comment quoted is in any way representative--and certainly not of your own criticism. Whether or not Althouse chooses to respond to your criticism is (of course) up to her, but surely this comment was amusing enough in itself to be worthy of a link!
You state that it's a joke: no surprise--that kind of humor is prevalent over here, and the Althouse community should be used to it. And judging from the responses of regular commenters, they got the joke (at least the joke Althouse is making by linking).
As for you other fools who cry "hypocrisy," as I state above: this post contains no attempt at all to characterize Ace's blog by means of the linked comment. That is the difference between what Althouse is doing here and what Sullivan (and others) do when they try to make a claim about Althouse based on the fact that somebody posted a nasty comment around here: Althouse makes no claims about Ace, or even mentions him at all--there's no ground on which the charge of hypocrisy can stand.
Synova: some sanity! thank you.
Slow (and I do mean "slow) Joe represents Princess Sarah as some kind of dynamic, accomplished force in politics.
And you wonder why people call him...s-l-o-w?
Synova:
Yes, it was a joke, but Ann used it to completely duck ant reply to the legitimate criticism. Did you see Ace's post ON THIS THREAD at 3:43 PM?
Where is Althousiana?
Joe M.
Ann "makes no mention" of Ace, you mean other than LINKING TO HIS BLOG?!
ESPECIALLY in light of this other thread?
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/10/after-i-note-andrew-sullivans-obsession.html
P.S. to Joe M.:
"Labels: Ace of Spades, anti-Althousiana"
"Girls just wanna have fun . . . ."
Ace said this:
Althouse's analysis seems to easily gloss over the fact that John McCain really was the boss here, and Sarah Palin really was the underling.
then remembers this:
she did, in fact, eventually go a bit rogue and assert herself.
Was she the underling or was she free to make decisions for herself?
The President isn't the Vice President's boss.
"Palin failed to act like a total dick..."
Cf. Nixon in 1952, demonstrating his comeback mettle early.
PEOPLE!
Lighten up!
Some of you take this all much too seriously.
To Synova: "Why do you think she's trying to convince anyone of anything?" And all this time I thought this was her political blog.
Alex: Don't give up on her yet. Only if symptoms persist should she see a doctor.
Charles: Lighten up? Hey, I'm in the bleachers with a beer and a hot dog!
Ann: Consider the Threepenny Opera aspect to this thing: Pirate Jenny was a whore but nobody's fool.
This almost begs a Titus question on whether or not you and Meade are intending to play "Pirate Whore" later.
Meade, grab ye cutlass and a glass of grog!
Matt:
Save me a beer!!!
rhhardin:
Technically, the President isn't the Vice President's boss. The Presidential nominee IS the Vice Presidential nominees boss (or, switched, re: Cheney and Bush :)
I'll lighten up when the Palin-pushers lighten up!
I dont like the name calling..
Except when I do it ;)
Alex:
Have a beer with Matt and me ...
The Wall Street Journal purchased "Going Rogue" from a bookstore on Friday?!
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/11/13/palins-book-the-overview/
Arrgh! Methinks "Oh...did I mention Althouse is a dirty libtard pirate whore?" should be the new tagline for the blog written by the saucy landlubber wench called Ann Althouse! Arrgh!
"Lighten up??"
Tell it to Sammy Sosa, you pirate whore.
Hey, now! If I don't stir the pot, things stick to the bottom! lolololololol
I am a fan of this blog, but damn it was obnoxious again. I hope Palin is not the best the GOP has to offer, but that doesn't make this any less sexist or foul or unintelligent.
Ace was right on.
Although he was a little harsher than I would have been towards a lady. So, I can't support that.
Where is Althousiana?
Overlaps the parts of the Appalachians and Ozarks that reach into southern Wisconsin.
Althouse is just stringing it out.
Palin is a ratings bonanza!
Seriously the issue of Palin being dumb needs vetting and answering. She does not do the superior witty one in the room act at all. She is vulnerable on that charge. She needs to deal with it as best she can. George Washington was similarly challenged as were Harry Truman and Andrew Jackson. She needs to be herself and let the wild eyed critics of her intellect smash up against her guts and her good character until the voters get their turn to speak.
>>>The way I am reading it, Ann didn't do the diving (Ace E-MAILED her the comment as a joke) and she just posted it.
No, I didn't email her the joke at all; I didn't even know about that comment. I just gave her a courtesy head's up I had criticized her.
This is a shame. I love both of these blogs. I've never cared for the comments section at Ace of Spades, and the coarseness of this particular comment reminds me why.
However, here's a little more thoughtful comment from this same thread that Althouse didn't highlight:
"I often get the same vibe I get from Althouse that I get from Megan McArdle: a woman who can't quite be dishonest enough to buy the liberal line entirely...but falls for it anyway. It drives me nuts because the two ladies say so much that is wise.
I blame people like Althouse and McArdle for shackling us to the Presidential disaster we are now in the middle of -- they knew his background and record, and yet still managed to convince themselves that he would govern as a moderate anyway.* I don't blame the rank-and-file leftists because seriously, it's not like there was ever any question who they'd vote for. No, it's the so-called "centrists" and "moderates" like Althouse that handed the reins of the country to this leftist idiot.
*Plus he was a dreamy black guy, and I'm cynical enough to believe that there's still a substantial amount of white guilt at play, whether Althouse or McArdle will admit it or not."
From a commenter named "Monty". Maybe I'll visit Ace's comments section more often. This was very well said.
To Synova: "Why do you think she's trying to convince anyone of anything?"
"And all this time I thought this was her political blog."
Yeah, but it's not ever been "this is my set final opinion on this" or "and you should agree with me because I'm right."
Well, once in a while it is, but not often and the tone changes so it seems pretty obvious.
I get a kick out of the criticisms, either of her throwing "red meat" to the hillbillies, or these days, the stupid "you can have an opinion when you can change the vote you made last year" demands.
I don't operate under the illusion that Althouse shares my politics or ever will. She's frequently and repeatedly said she does this blog thing because it's fun. I think that her strongest reactions are to people who misrepresent her *language* (and when it happens she does respond explicitly rather than obliquely) and I think she has a perverse streak that nearly relishes being thrown off the liberal plantation. I think she really likes playing devil's advocate and leaving us to wonder when she is and when she isn't. She may have, as a child, enjoyed kicking over ant-hills, just to watch.
And I could be completely wrong.
But that is my impression and I rather like it. It keeps conversations lively and varied.
Shades of the "Berkeley House Whore."
>>>Was she the underling or was she free to make decisions for herself?
An idiotic attempt to contrive a "contradiction" as if two things cannot be true at the same time.
In RobotWorld, I suppose things are binary, but in HumanWorld, see, we both may have a duty to defer to a person AND ALSO a reluctance to do so that sometimes asserts itself and overcomes the felt duty.
Yes, she went a little rogue... eventually. I hardly think it is worth commenting on, let alone criticizing, that in the early stages of the campaign, just two or three weeks after she'd been elevated out of nowhere to this position, she was in high-deference mode, and only eventually went into low-deference mode.
So asinine. Such a rote and dumb tactic, the contriving of a "contradiction" where none exists. Ha, ha, you got me, you so clever, I forgot in RobotWorld everything is binary and continuums and negative capability cause smoke to pour out of android ears.
Alex, Charles and I are having a beer summit. You see, this is a teaching moment. About what, I have no idea.
It's all about the beer.
Synova (and others who are claiming that this is about having a sense of humor)-
Ann was unfair to Ace. You know what it would have taken to be fair?
A half sentence: "From the comments at Ace's place:"
(or something similar)
That's it. Maybe it was an unintentional omission, but it was a significant omission which is unfair to Ace. Not every reader here is intimately familiar with both Ace and Ann's blogs. Most casual readers looking at the post will assume that Ace said what she posted without clicking through to the link to see that it was a commenter who said it.
It's not lacking a sense of humor to ask that even a half-assed attempt at fairness be made. Personally I think the omission was likely intentional because his critique was substantial and pretty much tore apart Ann's original "analysis" which - even upon my first reading of it seemed uncharacteristically petty of Ann.
Perhaps it wasn't intentional in the first instance of her post. But her refusal to add a clarifying statement even after it has been pointed out repeatedly certainly is.
Synova:" She may have, as a child, enjoyed kicking over ant-hills, just to watch."
Just as I suspected, you're Ann's mom! With all due respect, Mrs. Althouse, your daughter can fend for herself.
"Maybe it was an unintentional omission, but it was a significant omission which is unfair to Ace. Not every reader here is intimately familiar with both Ace and Ann's blogs. Most casual readers looking at the post will assume that Ace said what she posted without clicking through to the link to see that it was a commenter who said it."
Am I suppose to feel utterly superior that I clicked through?
Maybe the whole thing was directed at commenters, at lazy people having hostile sycophantic reactions in both comments sections without bothering to click through.
Great, a blog fight!
I believe it's called a "blargument"!!!
Did I just read someone offering ice cream???
BTW, I read Ann's post before Ace's critique of it, so my reaction to it was independent of what Ace subsequently said.
Ann's original post was poorly reasoned and - as Ace said so very well in his post - would have required her to be at loggerheads with the entire campaign staff (and, by proxy, with McCain himself) from Day One. There's no way that could have worked, and Ann's "analysis" completely ignored the dynamics of a political campaign.
That's neither here nor there with regard to the unfairness of this particular post, but I think having it pointed out to her so publicly did sting her and I think it was not unintentional that she then turned around and got petty about it.
Adding her first Palin post and this one together says to me that maybe Ann's having an "off day." We're all entitled to them. Most of us just don't post them to the internet.
Maybe some time in a picturesque cafe would restore a little equilibrium...
BTW, as I recall things, when Althouse complains that someone took something out of the comments to trash her she quotes back where the criticism is explicitly of her, either "Althouse is a horrible person... see what is on her blog!!!eleventy!" or else "Althouse is a horrible racist fascist gay hater!!! Look what she tolerates in her comments!!!eleventy!"
Oh, whatever.
Ace's criticisms were correct. His commentary thorough and reasoned.
Also... everyone should go over there, even those who aren't usually comfortable at AoSHQ, and watch the clip Drew posted of Rudy Giuliani.
You really should.
"Ann's original post was poorly reasoned and - as Ace said so very well in his post - would have required her to be at loggerheads with the entire campaign staff (and, by proxy, with McCain himself) from Day One. There's no way that could have worked, and Ann's "analysis" completely ignored the dynamics of a political campaign."
Seriously? My take on what Althouse said is that her main concern was that, given much time and access to good advice, Palin did not do a better job of representing herself when she admitted to being swayed by silly arguments like "Couric is lonely". That Palin should be expected to be better at image control and should be expected to be taken to task for not being better at image control.
My own feeling is that being persuaded by "experts" and those she felt that she was obligated to cooperate with at that point isn't damning of her, and shows her to be aware of her own failures and candid besides. Good things.
OTOH, the Palin haters obviously think that her inability to control everything about the McCain campaign shows her to be unfit.
I'm not sure how that differs from "shouldn't let herself be seen in a way that some would decide proves she's unfit" but I think there is a difference.
slow Joe-Im confused...?
which one is willing to apply themselves.... the quitter Sarah? Oh yeah-her facebook posts are so applicable to so many things.
Ann's original post was poorly reasoned and - as Ace said so very well in his post - would have required her to be at loggerheads with the entire campaign staff (and, by proxy, with McCain himself) from Day One. There's no way that could have worked, and Ann's "analysis" completely ignored the dynamics of a political campaign.
Uhm, they lost. It didn't "work"....
Ver Word: mican
Trey,
"OK, the libtard pirate whore thing is just offensive."
I beg to differ; it's completely hilarious. I was all set to be offended on Althouse's behalf until I saw the word "pirate" in there.
That totally changes it, and I'm sure she'll wear it as a badge of honor. It'll probably even show up on her masthead for a while...
wv: delamb
what the rancher does when the little sheep are ready for market
Like i said before they are all Ann haters. Piss on them. No laughing in 2012, Charles, because even the right(who are blinded by their own light) will see that Palin and the uber righties have no place in the White House, or in any of the houses on the hill. The best thing we can do is vote 'em all out. Okey dokey?
I'll be laughing when Obama gets a second term, and I don't even like the guy. But if you alternative is Palin, Huckelberry, Perry or Pawlenty, give me a Democrat any day of the week.
Vicki from Pasadena, not to be confused with Victoria
No danger of anyone confusing you with vbspurs, Vicki.
My impression:
Ann has a long-established sense of humor about herself. Sometimes there is a sign of sensitivity, but this is usually pretty clear in that if that part is struck she strikes back with a fair amount of words.
I saw that link, clicked it, then immediately scrolled down to find the comment. As there's been a fair amount of not respecting other bloggers who attribute comments to the blogger, even recently, there's a bit of play with that link.
The key bit is Ann directed us to a comment which almost certainly caused her to laugh out loud and in doing this directed us to a criticism of her own post. She offered no comments refuting the linked post, sharing with us argument against her as it stands.
That's not necessarily a way of saying, "I was wrong." But I think it does show an open appreciation of well-reasoned replies to her thoughts, though showing this in a playful rather than direct way.
Pasadena? Hey, we're neighbors!
blake said: No danger of anyone confusing you with vbspurs, Vicki.
col (chuckle out loud)
wv=readr Where art thou reader?
Victoria:
I don't hate Ann.
Ace:
Thanks for the clarification. The way she left it certainly left the impression that she was crediting YOU with that slur.
Fred4Pres said...
This almost begs a Titus question on whether or not you and Meade are intending to play "Pirate Whore" later.
Meade, grab ye cutlass and a glass of grog!
Ha ha ha!!! We just got home from being out. Glad to see most of the regular commenters - and others - get the humor in all of this.
Now where is my serving wench?!!! BEER HERE!!!
Meade:
You are welcome to join Matt, Alex, and me for beer (if she's busy turning tricks).
"if she's busy turning tricks"
Hilarious! Thanks for the invite, Charles!
I'll be back.
Heading out now to the store in search of eye patches.
Carry on, mateys!
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...
"I think that the fact that some on the right are attacking Ann, and that she has been repeatedly attacked by the left, is indication that Ann is more moderate than most of us."
And appearances are EVERYTHING, unless they are inconsistent, or heartfelt, when not "just for fun".
Ann, thanks for running with my Pirate Jenny observation. Now I have something to show for a whole afternoon of procrastination chez Althouse.
Thanks, Blake. I know you meant it to be an insult. Moderate is good.
Paddy, where do you live?
Vicki from Pasadena
I'm not sure I meant it as an insult, Vicki. I don't really know you, other than to say you're completely unlike vbspurs.
(West Valley here.)
Althouse needs a technicolor squirrel (a Wisconsin parrot!) for her shoulder...
She probably still has the pirate boots from art school days...
Victoria, just north of Fuller Seminary.
"You are welcome to join Matt, Alex, and me for beer (if she's busy turning tricks)."
and dont forget that titus will be there too because with alex you get two-for-the-price-of-one.
Yes, it's Friday night, and this post has taken on the cloak of "silly", but surely there must be SOMETHING we can learn about just how tough it is to be an all-in-all, moderate, centrist blogger like Althouse?
There is no apparent active site in the political blogosphere for those that make up the MAJORITY of our population. That's just fucking crazy for this space, *the internet*, that likes to see itself as "democratized".
If Althouse has enough vagina to question Sarah Palin for not standing up to "the powers that be", then let me ask her why she doesn't grow a pair *temporarily*, and call herself what she really is?
You have your regular base, Ann, and a varied base, at that. While most may be right of center for sure, many valued contributors, at least to my mind, are not.
You get linked often enough by Libertarians, Conservatives and Liberals.
Isn't it WAY past time for Althouse to come out of the moderate closet?
I have great faith in your regular commenters, and YOU. We really can discuss one issue at a time without ad hominems and expecting that we all agree. We'll all meet up at the lounge or the cafe to celebrate life, and pardon me for this, but "get centered".
I don't like labels any more than you do, but sometimes, just SOMETIMES it helps to set your foot firmly in that mess that is the middle.
YES! There really IS an issues-based, middle ground people!
Penny:
For just a moment here, I'm going to assume you're being serious, as opposed to satirical and ironic, and say this:
Fairness demands that I point out that Althouse already did that, an quite openly, directly and specifically** (see earlier times on this blog). It didn't work out, much less plain "work," so well.
End of that "for just a moment here" assumption on my part.
--
**Which is not to say she hasn't explored or implemented other ways to point to that idea.
"**Which is not to say she hasn't explored or implemented other ways to point to that idea."
I totally understand what you are saying, reader. I even GET it.
Here's the dilemma:
The vast majority of us can deal with differences of opinion, even poorly stated, and even with accompanying ad hom attacks. Further, most of us can clearly see that successful bloggers "DO stuff", that we wish they didn't feel they needed to do to be read.
Is it any different here than politics 'as usual' out >>>>>>>>>>>> there? Hits, votes, tip jars, donors? And ALWAYS... reaching out..."across the aisle".
Is it any different in the blogosphere than politics 'as usual' out >>>>>>>>>>>> there?
Not so much.
When you've got people like AlphaLiberal and Freder Frederson cheering you on
Please don't take my comments as "cheering Ann on". I was definitely being sarcastic.
Taking a comment from some anonymous posters over at AoSHQ a little too personally? It's not like one of the bloggers at Ace said it. Just some anonymous commenter.
Ann, you actually voted for Mr. Obama?
That's a pretty strong drug you've taken. It's a personal shame; like shooting up heroin or smoking crack cocaine, on a whim, when before you had never progressed past red wines.
You could've made your point by voting for Bob Barr, you know. Not that I did (I held my nose and voted for the better half of the (R) ticket). Here in Tennessee we rejected BHO, and during the last cycle had a historic (R) takeover of the State legislature to boot. We weren't fooled by BHO's stage presence and his unspecific promises of "CHANGE" which, as it's progressing, seems to point to a rapid decline and fall of the U.S. of A. Rome on a grand scale.
Funny how a simple, mindless vote for "CHANGE" will eventually prove to be vandalish.
kakashi - the commenter is not anonymous. His is a signature style, and he was a longtime commenter here. There is history involved, either funny or grotesque, depending on one's view. This is entertaining because of that.
Beth--
Really? Who is "dananjcon"?
blake, search for "oh...did I mention"
That's my best guess, anyway.
@Beth It's a stock phrase in conversational internet humor, and it's been used once (or twice) by each of a handful of commenters on this blog. I don't think it's one of the regulars or former regulars here.
The hashtag isn't right, either.
So for it to be that guy he'd have had to both changed his name, then set up a fake IP, under which he changed his name twice again.
Not that it matters at this point, but that site listed Dananjcon as its third most prolific sock puppeteer on 9/27/2009, with 47 different aliases used in a single week. Impressive achievement!
Here is Dananjcon's self-description on that site:
"DANANJCON
PHD
MD
BS
BSS
ESQ
Crazy gun toting, bible beating, rightwing exremist who drives a truck"
So he says.
Ah, I assumed too much. I apologize.
I'll add that the whole "pirate" bit made me assume a certain sense of humor behind the rest of the remark, and that made sense if it were who I assumed it to be. That wasn't well-thought on my part.
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