October 20, 2009

In the Forest Café...

DSC04683

... you can get lost in thought.

69 comments:

Freeman Hunt said...

Say you had young children. And say you had the option of living in the city with easy access to everything or living about ten miles out and having a bit of land with, perhaps, a bit of forest on it.

Where would you choose to live? Why?

edutcher said...

I have always loved scenes like that. And you don't have them in a city, unless you have Central Park or Fairmount Park, which can be a walk through Helmand Province, at times.

WV "zsallksks" Take your best shot.

ricpic said...

In the soft October sadness we will wander down the path
'Neath the woods gently resigning, leading us away from wrath.


Ten miles out should be no more than a twenty minute commute to the city, a mild inconvenience. So I'd take the country setting. Once you get used to country quiet there's no going back.

David said...

I would live in the city because it would be so much more environmentally responsible with less driving and carbon footprints and all that stuff. Plus I like to go out to breakfast every morning.

Scott said...

I think the best place to raise a kid would be a small city or big town somewhere in flyover country. When the scale of the community is smaller, you get to see how all of it works.

MadisonMan said...

In the city like Madison, there are plenty of woods around for kids to wander around and get lost in. I like being around my neighbors; they are interesting people.

That said, I do wish my back yard was bigger so my vegetable garden could be more extensive.

LonewackoDotCom said...

Do I get a helicopter?

On another topic, why are tea partiers so incredibly dumb when it comes to how they achieve their goals? Do they have a "cheap stunt" gene that causes them to think things like flying a blimp or playing dress-up games is effective? Why are almost none of them smart enough to do effective things, like attempt to discredit their opponents? To a certain extent it's good that they're dumb, but at the same time I could use some help doing what I do. Yet, they just aren't smart enough to do things in more effective ways.

MadisonMan said...

Will anyone here watch Sarah Palin on Oprah? I will not. I don't watch Oprah. I think it'll be an interesting show, and certainly it will boost Oprah's numbers.

Balfegor said...

Do they have a "cheap stunt" gene that causes them to think things like flying a blimp or playing dress-up games is effective?

This isn't unique to Tea Partiers. This is pretty much universal among protesters. I mean, how many people are going to be persuaded by a a crowd of people lying down in the street obstructing traffic, in a "die in?" Or, heavens, a vomit in? And how many bystanders really find the fascistic chanting popular at protests of all sorts compelling? And papier-mâché -- honestly, why? What's the point? Playing dress-up, like those people that dress up like the monopoly man to protest low taxes, is among the least offensive things protesters can do. It's at least amusing, in its way.

Really, the entire protest thing is, you know, a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, etc. etc. I don't think it persuades anyone one way or the other -- it mostly just lets people who are upset act out a bit.

Larry said...

Ann, you take the most beautiful pictures. Thanks for sharing. I love the view of the parking garage out my window, but your outdoors scenes are very refreshing.

t-man said...

I can't see a forest. Is it behind the trees?

Triangle Man said...

persuaded by a a crowd of people lying down in the street obstructing traffic

This is highly effective. I was immediately persuaded by groups of "anti-Castro" protesters blocking Miami's 826 highway during rush hour that they were clowns and that their cause was a farce.

Scott said...

You looking for DeForest?

MadisonMan said...

More likely this one.

wv: bling

traditionalguy said...

After a below freezing night, we have 70f and sunny weather here in Atlanta, and it feels like March weather in the early spring. My final thought on the weather scare is that sunny days heat up the air and cloudy days cool down the air. Unless clouds are made out of CO2, then the whole Carbon Dioxide Is Pollution Hoax needs to be laughed out of town along with the money grubbing politicos selling it.

Scott said...

Did one ever find DeForest in a Castro Convertible?

Scott said...

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” --Joseph Goebbels

LonewackoDotCom said...

So, who or what convinced the "partiers" that street protesting was the way to go? Or, is it just the case that they were always waiting to act out and thousands of them simply finally saw their chance?

Personally, if I have a problem I try to think up the best way to solve it and I try to use leverage if possible, such as by getting someone else to do the heavy lifting. The "partiers" brains obviously don't work the same way: they have a problem and then, like impulsive little children, they act out.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott said...

If you want to see who the guardians of the lies are, just look at who is trying to suppress dissent.

rhhardin said...

Right rudder in left turn.

The controls on dogs apparently differ from airplanes.

In a light wing-loaded airplane you hold right stick and neutral rudder, to reduce the lift on the faster outside wing.

Scott said...

Is that like counter-steering on a motorcycle?

Balfegor said...

So, who or what convinced the "partiers" that street protesting was the way to go?

The media tends to devote a lot of attention to protests -- the thugs at those anti-WTO protests, those ANSWER and Code Pink anti-war protests, gay marriage protests, Sharpton rousing the rabble, etc. etc. etc. -- and there was a perception, I think, that in order to be taken seriously, they had to be doing the same idiotic thing all the above-mentioned groups do. That, after all, is the most visible part of what activists waste their time doing.

The more useful bits -- gathering mailing lists, sponsoring research and writing, forming PACs, targeting member donations, and the like -- are both less visible and harder for the average person to take part in. Any fool can walk down to the city square and take part in a loud protest and then go home and feel like he's done a good day's work sticking it to the Man. But organising a movement is much harder and requires more of a time commitment.

Fred4Pres said...

The forest floor is pretty...pretty flat.

Fred4Pres said...

Freeman, I am living the bit of land with a bit of forest on it. We like it. But a suburban community of single homes spread on a few acres each is not a really a forest. Sure it is better than being all on top of one antoher, but there is not enough land for all of us to live spread out that way.

But if you could live in a city with the option of having a real forest close by and accessable (and not overrun with all your neighbors)--that is a livable option too. There are a few cities like that. Portland, Oregon. San Francisco has that nice big park on the other side of the Bridge.

Fred4Pres said...

A Robert Frost poem seems in order:

Spades take up leaves
No better than spoons,
And bags full of leaves
Are light as balloons.
I make a great noise
Of rustling all day
Like rabbit and deer
Running away.
But the mountains I raise
Elude my embrace,
Flowing over my arms
And into my face.
I may load and unload
Again and again
Till I fill the whole shed,
And what have I then?
Next to nothing for weight,
And since they grew duller
From contact with earth,
Next to nothing for color.
Next to nothing for use.
But a crop is a crop,
And who's to say where
The harvest shall stop?

Jason (the commenter) said...

Freeman Hunt: Say you had young children. And say you had the option of living in the city with easy access to everything or living about ten miles out and having a bit of land with, perhaps, a bit of forest on it.

I think the wooded area would be best with the kids. Of course once their parents paid the ransom money I'd move to the city. I just love people and it's always a good idea to change your scenery after something like that.

Fred4Pres said...

Jake Tapper sees the forest through the trees, or maybe it is a fox in the forest.

raf said...

@edutcher
"WV "zsallksks" Take your best shot."

It's all cus-cus. I always wondered what was in that stuff.

LonewackoDotCom said...

The "partiers" wouldn't have to take all the build-a-movement steps to do something effective. All they'd need to do is form a few small, local groups that would follow my plan. Doing that would take even less effort than organizing a protest. They wouldn't even have to go to events; they could call in to CSPAN (which I don't get). Many of the CSPAN calls are not effective or just low-wattage; the "partiers" could find smart people to call in with "stumpers" in order to make their opponents (some of whom are my opponents) look bad. They aren't capable of doing that, but somehow think waving loopy signs is going to be effective. Obviously, it hasn't been effective, but that doesn't mean they'll be able to figure that out.

rhhardin said...

It looks like my daily bike commute.

Pick any of the tree pics from here.

Plenty of forest miles.

Shanna said...

Will anyone here watch Sarah Palin on Oprah? I will not. I don't watch Oprah. I think it'll be an interesting show, and certainly it will boost Oprah's numbers.

My friend has been emailing me about this all afternoon. I’ll probably wait for clips and transcripts.

As for Freemans question, I think cities are nice if you have enough money. Country is nice always, except I'm not sure if trashburning and all the weird hassles that come with living outside a city are worth it. Probably having a big piece of land in a city with all the services would be ideal.

Penny said...

Any time I have been in Manhattan, generally Midtown, seeing either little kids or dogs jars my senses. It's like those tests we used to take asking us to pick out what doesn't belong.

People of varied ethnicity, yes. The well-dressed and the barely dressed, yes. The cop on the street, the hot dog vendors, the street musicians and those that look homeless, yes. But little kids and dogs? Not so much.

Balfegor said...

Country is nice always, except I'm not sure if trashburning and all the weird hassles that come with living outside a city are worth it. Probably having a big piece of land in a city with all the services would be ideal.

I wouldn't mind a nice country property with landscaping by Practicality Brown. And, you know, an army of servants.

rhhardin said...

There's garbage collection in the country.

You can even throw out tv sets.

Titus said...

I am originally from the country. My parents own the farm that my mother was born in. It has been in our family over 200 years. I love going there.

I live in the city but there are many options too escape the craziness. I love The Arboraetum, The Fellsway, Walden Pond, Minute Man State Park, etc.

I also like Jody Foster's tits.

edutcher said...

LonewackoDotCom said...

why are tea partiers so incredibly dumb when it comes to how they achieve their goals? Do they have a "cheap stunt" gene that causes them to think things like flying a blimp or playing dress-up games is effective? Why are almost none of them smart enough to do effective things, like attempt to discredit their opponents?

Maybe they're about the truth and their Constitutional rights, rather than the Alinskyite "no lie in the service of the cause is evil". Maybe they figure showing people who think the same way how many of them there are will empower all of them and drive home the fact to the Alinskyites that they're on the losing side of the issue.

Balfegor said...

Do they have a "cheap stunt" gene that causes them to think things like flying a blimp or playing dress-up games is effective?

This isn't unique to Tea Partiers. This is pretty much universal among protesters. I mean, how many people are going to be persuaded by a a crowd of people lying down in the street obstructing traffic, in a "die in?"


But the Tea Partiers haven't done that stuff. They've been orderly and respectful of other people. It's the Lefties - ANSWER, Code Pink, Act Up who pull that nonsense.

Interesting how the Lefties project their behavior onto other people?

WV "reter" To ter again

EDH said...

The Superfreakonomics "Climate Change" flap takes a new turn.

Greg Mankiw links a blog post by Yoram Bauman, the "World's First and Only Stand-up [comedian] Economist.

I'm not sure I support Bauman's disappointment with Levitt and Dubner.

The comments below Bauman's piece add perspective.

"Wild, wierd stuff," as Johnny Carson used to say, as he winked at the comedian who either killed or flopped.

wv-"disbe" = to be cut short in expressing your disbelif in global..., ahem, climate change

traditionalguy said...

Titus...I like all of Jodi Foster. She seems like a family member of mine with her fears mixed together with a couragous strength. Do you know her from your travels?

Michael Hasenstab said...

Say you had young children. And say you had the option of living in the city with easy access to everything or living about ten miles out and having a bit of land with, perhaps, a bit of forest on it.

I think I'd live on a larger plot of land, out of town. If you live in a subdivision with large lots, you'll be driving your kids around, anyhow, so just add a few minutes to the trips and have a more rural experience.

A larger, rural-ish plot lets you have some things you can't otherwise have. Chickens, maybe a cow, a horse, bug dogs, dirt bikes, ATVs, etc. Things that teach responsibility, but also add some elements to life that can't be had in a city.

Trips to the city are fun, and you and your kids will be close enough to enjoy museums, theaters, shopping and all the typical city offerings. Any you'll be away from city-related problems, crime, taxes, noise and light.

Barns and bonfires; that's my opinion.

Michael Hasenstab said...

Duh. Big dogs, not bug dogs.

Pogo said...

AGW is the most boring topic ever.

If it was a small animal, I'd cook it for dinner and use it's fur for mittens.

Pogo said...

goddamn unnecessary possessive's

Michael Hasenstab said...

@Freeman Hunt (continuing) My niece married a guy who practices medicine in WI, and inherited a farm in SC that has been in the family since the early 1800s.

They live in WI (four kids - middle school through college junior) and spend vacations on the farm, building sheds, cutting trails, swimming in the pond, riding ATVs etc. The kids beg, BEG to go to the farm on every vacation, break, and with mom most of the summer.They usually take along a few friends who likewise BEG to get to the farm.

The point being, at least in their family, there seems to be a strong attraction for kids to areas where they can be outdoors, have adventures w/o parents at their side, get dirty, build stuff, be around animals, and laugh, a lot.

Your mileage may vary.

Son of the Black Dog said...

Winter in Wisconsin, summer in South Carolina.

Isn't this backwards?

MamaM said...

I find Bug Dogs and Snake Cats very useful in maintaining perimeters when it comes to country living.

rhhardin said...

Replacing a failed hard drive is approaching nine hours today, mostly file recovery over the dining room LAN. Maybe two more hours to go.

LonewackoDotCom said...

"edutcher" (the guy who keeps using different names) obviously doesn't have much of a clue. The "partiers" only represent a very small % of Americans, and they aren't capable of realizing that everyone doesn't think like them. Strict fiscal conservatism is not a winning position; even most Republicans support SocSec and so on.

As for them not engaging in Alinskyite tactics, Althouse's buddy Insty and others who are supposedly grown-ups in a gross display of stupidity have been encouraging their followers to borrow from Alinsky's playbook.

This picture sums it up very nicely. The braindead in the photo had a chance to "cross-examine" that Rep. about a host of things that could have reduced his power and sent a message to others; for instance, he could have asked about his proud past membership in a racial separatist organization. Instead of doing that, he did what's in the photo. That's not just complete and absolute idiocy, it was promoted by Instapundit.

The "partiers" and their leaders are standing athwart history helping push us towards Idiocracy.

Penny said...

Perhaps Titus and his husband are thinking of asking Jodi Foster to be their baby's vessel into our brave new world?

Penny said...

Judging from Titus's past comments, I assume he will be in charge of the brave new world's "foreplay", and his husband will get stuck doing the "hard" part.

Face it, somebody has to hunt and peck.

Bissage said...

(1) Bissage traverses the internet, so you don’t have to.

(2)(a) Jodie Foster’s Knuckles.

(2)(b) Jodie Foster’s Knuckles.

(3) See (1), supra.

rhhardin said...

Mike Munger on vaccine shortages at econtalk.org; Munger is always entertaining.

Titus said...

That's hilarious Bissage.

Love Family Guy.

My Indian Husband calls me Herbert, the old perv.

ricpic said...

I can assure you, LoneWhacko, that professional politicians, both Democrats and Republicans, are very well aware of the significance of over one million Americans of the unwhacko category taking the time and trouble to show up in Washington and peacefully protest liberal overreach.

Michael Hasenstab said...

Huh? The Swiss Chef dumped Jodie Foster?

Well, at least she's still got Hinckley.

EDH said...

Talk about disturbing video.

Thanks for the link, Bissage.

wv - "flable" = a media hoax involving child and a float from the Macy's parade

blake said...

Hey, LoneWacko--

The tea parties do seem to be having an effect. I think things like NY23 are bolstered by demonstrations. I think the idea that this is a "fringe" is clearly put down by the massive showing that day.

People have to know that it's okay to speak out in favor of restraint.

What have you done that's comparable?

peter hoh said...

@Freeman, I'd choose the land with the forest on it, but I got married first.

One kid and I spent the weekend in a cabin in northern Wisconsin. Good stuff.

LonewackoDotCom said...

ricpic: There's no reason anyone except for overly vulnerable RINOs needs to worry about the "partiers". See my extensive Tea Party coverage for all the details, complete with numbers.

blake: My main site has been online in its present form since 2002 and there are over nine thousand entries. Check them out to see what I've done. Why aren't you helping me? Why aren't others helping me? Why didn't, for instance, tea partiers help me block SoniaS by doing things like linking to this page? Certainly, most of them don't know about my site, but many of their leaders do. Instead of doing that, they just rolled over and started whining about less important financial matters. What SoniaS is going to do is going to have a far greater impact on their lives than even the deficit, yet they weren't bright enough to figure that out and help me mount an effective opposition.

To what extent are their failings due to the fact that they just aren't that bright, and to what extent are their failings due to emotional issues such as being overly impulsive, being closed-minded, and so on?

peter hoh said...

Today in non-apologies, South Carolina county chairman Edwin Merwin, Jr. issued the following statement:

I have always abhorred in the past, and shall continue to do so in the future, anti-Semitism in any form whatsoever. I ... beg that any and all who were offended will accept my deep felt apology.

Scott said...

"To what extent are their failings due to the fact that they just aren't that bright, and to what extent are their failings due to emotional issues such as being overly impulsive, being closed-minded, and so on?"

You mean, unlike you.

chickenlittle said...

The word "forest" just sounds too French to my ears. English used to have better word for it: wold which survives in several English place names, for example, the Cotswolds. German still has the word as der Wald, and Dutch has het woud.

And then there's a dubious but fanciful connection with the words wold and wild.

Fred4Pres said...

EDH, I wondered what happened to Kate Bush. Jeez she is looking almost as old as Aerosmith.

Just Lurking said...

Having grown up in a city, I have a phobia about the woods. It's because as a kid, I heard one too many news reports about murder victims' bodies being found in wooded areas. It created an image in my mind of the woods being filled with maniacs just waiting around for unsuspecting victims to wander in.

Of course as I got older I realized that the people were killed elsewhere, probably in the city, and the bodies were dumped in the wooded areas. But it doesn't matter. I now live in the suburbs and can't walk in wooded areas alone w/o feeling uneasy.

blake said...

For about five years, I lived in a house at the edge of the Santa Monica mountains. Well, the edge of the developed part.

So you had wildlife, some woodlands, and it would've been great, I think, except that this is a freakin' desert, so it was all scrub--well, basically kindling.

Two miles from Ventura Blvd. It was nice. (Except for coming home to a driveway full of fire trucks.)

It was nice.

blake said...

Wait, so your "accomplishment" is to build a website that you nag people to visit?

And that's had an effect how, exactly?

I blog movie reviews. Near as I can tell, it hasn't had any effect on anyone making movies. It's an accomplishment only to the extent that some people read it and like it.

Likewise, you're not going to accomplish much in the world of governance without being:

a) Such a clear, persuasive writer that you sway people to your way of thinking;

b) So charismatic that people follow you whether you're sensible or an idiot;

c) Someone who's effective at organization, campaigning, getting out the vote, etc.

d) Or a leader that acts decisively in a way that naturally attracts support

I don't see any evidence of b, c or d. As for (a), most of what I see from you here is what an idiot everyone is for not getting in line behind you.

Then when I do click on your site, I'm not really impressed.

On the other hand, when a million people descend on Washington, I am impressed.

Freeman Hunt said...

So many interesting answers.

One big plus for a more rural location: you could see more stars, maybe set up a telescope.

blake said...

Yeah, definitely true.

The urban glow kills the stars most nights. But you don't get away from that ten miles away, neither. Not 'round here.

chickenlittle said...

@Freeman: We live next door to Camp Pendleton, a sprawling 125,000 acre swath of undeveloped land. There is very little light pollution to the north of us and this opens a beautiful vista at night to the heavens and stars above. We do hear the occasional howitzer or field artillery practice, but that's just the sound of freedom.

I too think it's important for kids to have a wild place to be and feel free, and for us that's the San Luis Rey river bottom.

wv: lunizin
sounds like something that should be marketed under a generic name.