Althouse: "If you make the roofs white and if you make the pavement more of a concrete type of colour rather than a black type of colour..."

May 27, 2009

"If you make the roofs white and if you make the pavement more of a concrete type of colour rather than a black type of colour..."

"... and if you do that uniformally, that would be the equivalent of... reducing the carbon emissions due to all the cars in the world by 11 years – just taking them off the road for 11 years."

150 comments:

Palladian said...: What if I don't want a white roof?

Hahaha. I forgot who's in charge. Everybody get ready to buy white shingles.

I must say its probably going to be the only time you hear someone in the Obama administration preferring white over "a black type of color".; 5/27/09, 12:53 PM
Fred4Pres said...: Come on Palladian, you are...well...palladian. Of course you want a white roof.

How are we supposed to tell the good guys from the bad guys anyway?

Of course with last winter, I am not so sure this is a good idea. They never explained it in the massively boring movie A.I., but why exactly did the world go from global warming to snow ball earth at the end?; 5/27/09, 12:56 PM
John Stodder said...: If you had to choose, though... assuming you take seriously the forecast of rising temperatures and the potential implications... wouldn't a white roof seem like a small sacrifice compared with making private transportation unaffordable? How much time do you spend looking at your roof?

The other benefit is a marginal reduction in a/c costs.

I know my dog would rather walk on concrete than asphalt on a hot day.; 5/27/09, 12:56 PM
Henry said...: The paint manufacturers will be loving this guy. Time to buy zinc futures.; 5/27/09, 12:56 PM
TMink said...: May I suggest a white hat for Palladian so that he can leave his roof damn well enough alone.

Trey; 5/27/09, 12:57 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Well, if we all cut back on our spending that would help reduce our carbon emissions, too. How about the government cut back it's spending to at least what it brings in?

The new environmentalism.; 5/27/09, 12:58 PM
Anonymous said...: But what if you want solar panels on your roof?; 5/27/09, 1:00 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Would this make my house colder in the winter which means I'd use more oil to keep my house warm?; 5/27/09, 1:00 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Palladian can sell T-shirts that say:

What if I don't want .....? Hahaha. I forgot who is in charge. I would love .....; 5/27/09, 1:02 PM
MadisonMan said...: Prof. Chu doesn't live in WI. A white roof -- yes it would increase the albedo -- would be dreadful in the winter. Nothing would melt! Ditto with the white roads. Dark roads absorb energy and warm up in the winter, reducing the need for salt.; 5/27/09, 1:04 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Think of all the carbon emissions that are created by the government subsidizing people to live in flood/hurricane zones. Or by the government subsidizing people to live in homes instead of apartments. All the carbon emissions created in construction/reconstruction and then in air conditioning. Let's cut that out.; 5/27/09, 1:04 PM
Treacle said...: I am excited about living in a world where all the surfaces are the color of calcified dog shit!; 5/27/09, 1:05 PM
dave_WI said...: I have a Black roof and when it is hot, if I keep the drapes and woods closed my house is very cool inside. Although I do have some trees here by but a lot of Sun does hit it.; 5/27/09, 1:05 PM
MadisonMan said...: I am glad he mentioned nuclear energy, however misguided his ideas about roof color are.; 5/27/09, 1:05 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Think of all the carbon emissions that are created because of zoning laws. People not allowed to build homes next to where they work or not allowed to build to a certain density. So much unneeded transportation is called for. So much space that could be wilderness is paved over. Let's cut that out.; 5/27/09, 1:07 PM
Henry said...: I think we should replace the sand on Hawaii's black sand beaches. Kind of as a proof-of-concept.; 5/27/09, 1:08 PM
Palladian said...: How about a roof that changes colors with the seasons?

"I am glad he mentioned nuclear energy, however misguided his ideas about roof color are."

Yes, that was surprising considering the Obama campaign in my memory never mentioned nuclear energy.; 5/27/09, 1:09 PM
hdhouse said...: Is this what happens when someone just tells you something...someone with some expertise and makes a comment/suggestion probably based on some pretty good science...?

What I detest about some is the flippant arrogance based on stupidity replies...Palladian of course zooming to be first in line...that are just silly.

If you don't like science or discussion about science then what good are you?; 5/27/09, 1:13 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: As a Republican I do not believe in Global Warming.

Fake Science. Actually I don't believe in any science.; 5/27/09, 1:14 PM
traditionalguy said...: I notice that the feared have to be taxed to death CO2 is not the problem afterall. Its the sun's heat. And when cooling sets in everywhere, we can just paint them all black.; 5/27/09, 1:16 PM
chickelit said...: The paint manufacturers will be loving this guy. Time to buy zinc futures.

Well, I'll be...looky who owns a zinc mine: link; 5/27/09, 1:16 PM
Palladian said...: "What I detest about some is the flippant arrogance based on stupidity replies...Palladian of course zooming to be first in line...that are just silly.

If you don't like science or discussion about science then what good are you?"

Science isn't just about nodding and saying "hmm" no matter what your Dear Leader might have to say about it. Read Madison Man's comment as to why this is a stupid idea.

Did you forget to take your Metamucil this morning? You seem particularly full of it today.; 5/27/09, 1:19 PM
Palladian said...: "The paint manufacturers will be loving this guy. Time to buy zinc futures."

Why zinc? Titanium dioxide makes a better white paint pigment.; 5/27/09, 1:21 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Think of all the carbon emissions created by having such a large military and fighting so many wars overseas. Why don't we cut back on that?; 5/27/09, 1:24 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Roofs and roads that change color and must be painted twice a year!
All in favor say Amen!

Obama's energy secretary has just saved or created about 3.5 million jobs!; 5/27/09, 1:24 PM
bearbee said...: How about a white canvas roof bra which rolls up in the winter. Will cloth repel heat? Don't desert tribes wear white headdress?

Energy crunch is a comin'

Nuclear energy needs to be acted upon.

Obama is taxing the hell out of the oil producers to generate revenues for his wealth distribution. Companies will cut back on exploration and capital expenditures .; 5/27/09, 1:26 PM
Henry said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/27/09, 1:27 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Think of all the carbon emissions created by subsidizing the big three auto companies and all the banks with all their branches. Why don't we cut back on that?; 5/27/09, 1:27 PM
Henry said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/27/09, 1:28 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: I do think, as John Boehner said, we should do something about exploring how we can harness cow farts.; 5/27/09, 1:29 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: I believe a cow fart is a terrible thing to waste.

thank you.; 5/27/09, 1:30 PM
Henry said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/27/09, 1:32 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: I think they are painting many of the roofs of the buildings in NYC to be white. I saw Bloomberg and the dyke talk about this on Charlie Rose.; 5/27/09, 1:32 PM
The Dude said...: Chu spells like an Englishman.; 5/27/09, 1:34 PM
Joseph said...: Its not a bad idea in the (majority?) of the country where snow/ice is infrequent/rare/nonexistent.; 5/27/09, 1:36 PM
Henry said...: chickenlittle wrote: Well, I'll be...looky who owns a zinc mine...

I'll be damned. Mine was just a throwaway line.

Palladian wrote: Why zinc? Titanium dioxide makes a better white paint pigment.

Just trying to be terse, man.

John Stodder, always being reasonable, is quite right to point out that this is a relatively sane idea. Importantly it is proactive rather than restrictive.; 5/27/09, 1:36 PM
Jeremy said...: Palladian said..."What if I don't want a white roof? Hahaha. I forgot who's in charge. Everybody get ready to buy white shingles.

Well, one reason might be that the interior of your home or business would be cooled down considerably and your utility bills would decrease by 205 - 40%.

In California, you know, where all of those silly and wasteful leftists live, one cannot install a new roof on a commercial building that has air conditioning...unless it is a Title 24 approved "cool roof."

The savings and reduction in emissions over time will prove to be a massive boon to the residents and business owners via their pocket books and health.

So...I suggest, in keeping with the right wing theory of not having to do anything unless you really want to...you paint your roof black.; 5/27/09, 1:37 PM
Joaquin said...: What about the 'cost' of manufacturing the millions of gallons of paint?
Oh yeah, the roof of the paint factories will be white so everything is OK.
WHAT A MORON!!!; 5/27/09, 1:39 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: Savings on energy bills is pussy talk.; 5/27/09, 1:42 PM
Joaquin said...: Sorry Jeremy, but I don't really care about my utility bills, but more important, a white roof will clash with my existing exterior stone walls.; 5/27/09, 1:42 PM
Sofa King said...: In California, you know, where all of those silly and wasteful leftists live

...things are actually different than in other parts of the country, where heating requires more annual energy consumption than cooling does.; 5/27/09, 1:43 PM
Henry said...: Jeremy wrote: In California, you know, where all of those silly and wasteful leftists live, one cannot install a new roof on a commercial building that has air conditioning...unless it is a Title 24 approved "cool roof."

I think you just proved Palladian's point for him.; 5/27/09, 1:43 PM
Palladian said...: "So...I suggest, in keeping with the right wing theory of not having to do anything unless you really want to...you paint your roof black."

I know you're not the brightest compact fluorescent light in the pack, but I live in a 19th century loft building in New York City. I could give a flying fuck what color the roof is, I don't live on the top floor.

The roof of my building happens to be black. I'm phoning the authorities to report my landlord right now.

And I didn't know that not doing anything unless you really want to was a "right wing theory". Interesting! I would have thought that people of all political persuasions didn't do things that they didn't really want to do. This "right wing" seems more attractive every day....; 5/27/09, 1:47 PM
The Dude said...: Jermy wrote "and your utility bills would decrease by 205 - 40%."

So, if my bill decreases by 205% would I get money back from for using electricity? Just askin'...; 5/27/09, 1:48 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: Get your hands off my roof big government!; 5/27/09, 1:49 PM
Palladian said...: "I think you just proved Palladian's point for him."

"Jeremy" likes being told what to do, which is why he lives in California and loves the Democrat party. But his obedient nature does have its advantages:

Shut the fuck up, Jeremy! It will save the planet if you shut the fuck up!; 5/27/09, 1:49 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: This is a very old idea. In fact, Huffster Lori Gold came up with it in 2006.; 5/27/09, 1:49 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: You will have to pry my roof from my cold dead hands, Mister Big Governement.; 5/27/09, 1:51 PM
Titusisfeelinggreatthankyouforasking said...: I wouldn't mind a white roof...just as long as it is after Memorial Day.; 5/27/09, 1:52 PM
Beau said...: Its not a bad idea in the (majority?) of the country where snow/ice is infrequent/rare/nonexistent.
Yep, look at Greece. Blinding white for the most part.; 5/27/09, 1:52 PM
Jeremy said...: Joaquin said..."Sorry Jeremy, but I don't really care about my utility bills, but more important, a white roof will clash with my existing exterior stone walls."

Cool Roofs are primarily designed for commercial buildings, but there are also many colors that fall under the same guidelines and used on tile roofs. (I assume you know that, unless your roof is made of clay, it is most probably a plain gray concrete tile that is painted at the factory.)

I suggest everybody who doesn't care about the atmosphere and would like for their utility bills to continue to climb...to ignore any new scientific information that might help out.

You know...Republicans.; 5/27/09, 1:58 PM
Jeremy said...: Palladian...""Jeremy" likes being told what to do, which is why he lives in California and loves the Democrat party. But his obedient nature does have its advantages"

Right.

Like when they put up stop signs and crosswalks or pass laws governing how tall a building can be so it doesn't interfere with a neighbor's right to a view or criminal laws "telling" me what to do.

Things like that.

Cool Roofs will be required throughout the country within five to ten years, mostly in areas where heat is a factor.; 5/27/09, 2:01 PM
Palladian said...: "Cool Roofs will be required throughout the country within five to ten years"

Yee-haw! Bring on more restraints and restrictions and laws! Yes baby! I like to be bound! I like to be a slave! Yes sir! Regulate my waste of a life! Yes! Oh yes!; 5/27/09, 2:04 PM
Jeremy said...: NKVD said..."So, if my bill decreases by 205% would I get money back from for using electricity? Just askin'..."

Skipped those math courses, huh?

Decreasing your utility bills by 25-40% doesn't mean it is "compounded" every year...dumb-ass.

If you get 20% better mileage with a fuel efficient car are you under the impression you eventually will not even have to fill up with gas?

Duh.; 5/27/09, 2:04 PM
Palladian said...: "Decreasing your utility bills by 25-40% doesn't mean it is "compounded" every year...dumb-ass."

Um, YOU'RE the one WHO mistyped 205-40%, Gene. HE was making what WE humans call a "joke" at YOUR expense.

DUH.

SUCK MY DICK.

DUMB-ASS; 5/27/09, 2:07 PM
Crimso said...: I could see where it would make a difference in utility usage, and I could also see there might well be unforseen consequences. But I find it difficult to believe that it would significantly affect the Earth's albedo (and isn't "albedo" a great word?).; 5/27/09, 2:07 PM
Crimso said...: "Like when they put up stop signs and crosswalks or pass laws governing how tall a building can be so it doesn't interfere with a neighbor's right to a view or criminal laws "telling" me what to do."

You forgot the one about outlawing gay marriage.; 5/27/09, 2:09 PM
Jeremy said...: Palladian - A"Yee-haw! Bring on more restraints and restrictions and laws!"

Right.

Like those "restrictive" laws pertaining to seat belts and helmets that have saved millions of lives.

Or those silly "restrictive" structural laws relating to bridges and buildings and homes

Why would anybody possibly be concerned with a collapsing bridge or building or home?

And God knows we should never restrict lead-based paints in schools or homes. What's a dead kid now and then gonna hurt?

What a dummy.; 5/27/09, 2:10 PM
Jeremy said...: Crimso said..."You forgot the one about outlawing gay marriage."

Different matter entirely...unless you think the friction between partners creates enough heat.

Oh, and Cool Roofs lower heat emissions into the atmosphere.

Maybe some here might want to at least do a little research before blathering on about things of which you know little.

*And by the way...this isn't new...these roofs have been out there for years, especially in states such as Nevada, Arizona, Florida, California, New Mexico, etc.

It's just that many here never read...so how would you know.; 5/27/09, 2:13 PM
Pastafarian said...: We put white roofs on our factory about 10 years ago; it does make it cooler in the summer, and it doesn't cost you much in the winter, because any properly insulated building will have a snow-covered roof about half the winter, so you'd gain little from a black roof in winter.

It certainly wouldn't be worth the cost, in money or CO2 (as if its production is a cost) to retrofit buildings, but I could see the logic in suggesting higher-albedo materials in new construction.

But the roads? Just what sort of driving surface does he have in mind?

I really doubt that this guy did the work required to calculate the net result of his proposal, including reduced auto mileage from a less smooth surface, increased stopping distance and more accidents, less efficient ice melting from roads, the cost of raising the albedo in winter, the cost of the retrofit, and so on, before he shot off his mouth.

The idea that changing the colors of roads and roofs would decrease CO2 emissions by as much as they claim is clearly wrong, on its face. Please show us your arithmetic.; 5/27/09, 2:14 PM
Palladian said...: "What's a dead kid now and then gonna hurt?"

OMG ALL THOSE LAWS AND KIDZ STILL DIE!!!1 WTF?!

SUCK MY DICK.

DUH.

ASSHOLE.; 5/27/09, 2:17 PM
Pastafarian said...: Funny that you should mention seat belts and helmets, Jeremy. I was thinking that if the government were to mandate some white material for roads in place of asphalt, that this would certainly cost lives.

There's a reason they use asphalt, you know. Ever try 60 to 0 on wet concrete?

And as someone upthread noted, snow and ice won't melt nearly as well, and wet roads would remain wetter longer.

I'm guessing about 10,000 deaths per year. Probably about as accurate as this guy's 11 years' worth of automotive CO2.; 5/27/09, 2:18 PM
Anthony said...: Doesn't anyone say "rooves" anymore?; 5/27/09, 2:19 PM
traditionalguy said...: Jeremy... Does the scientific information that the Global Temps have been going down the last 10 years count? That was during the greatest CO2 emissions by "bad" energy users, cows, sheep, and wars in world history. Most reputable scientists say we are now in a global cooling cycle. You and the Obama Boys must be in a "stupid crisis" or think everyone else is mesmerized by your lies.; 5/27/09, 2:19 PM
Pastafarian said...: But the trivialities of snow melt and albedo really aren't what's worth discussing here. It's the arrogance of someone just bumbling into a group of fields about which they know precious little, and setting policy.

Is Chu a civil engineer? Does Chu know anything about construction or HVAC? No? Then STFU, Chu.

It's almost as if you had someone who's never run so much as a lemonade stand suddenly in charge of GM. I detect a pattern.; 5/27/09, 2:22 PM
Crimso said...: "Different matter entirely...unless you think the friction between partners creates enough heat."

Your examples about laws had nothing whatsoever to do with global warming.

And I do read. Quite a bit actually. One of the most important things parents can do for their children is instill in them an interest in reading at as young an age as possible, which my parents did. I'm sure you read too. Perhaps you'd like to read some of the articles I've published in peer-reviewed scientific biochemical journals? I could also give you references for articles written by others that I served as a reviewer for, but that's ideally supposed to remain anonymous.; 5/27/09, 2:25 PM
SteveR said...: White roofs would obviously show dirt and algal discoloration which would require cleaning/replacement to prevent a reduction in effectiveness, not to mention the appearance issue.

But if we we're going to be simplistic at the expense of well reasoned science and engineering, vegetation absorbs more heat than white sand so lets turn all our parks into big white sandboxes, that will reduce carbon emissions by another 11 minutes.

And if we all turned off our TVs and went outside, joined hands with our neighbors and sang Kumbayah, that'd be another few minutes.

See this kind of fun could go on and on.; 5/27/09, 2:28 PM
Pastafarian said...: Although I think Chu was unintentionally right, in one way: If you could magically turn all rooftops and roadways white overnight, with no cost (in terms of CO2), then the net effect of this in terms of world temperature change would probably be equivalent to the net effect of 11 years of automotive CO2:

They'd both be insignificantly small, compared to fluctuations in output and magnetic field strength from that great, big ball of plasma in the sky.

But I don't think that this is what he meant.; 5/27/09, 2:30 PM
ricpic said...: My walls are white and my roof is gray-green. If white roofs were mandated I'd end up in an albino house and I don't want to live in an albino house!; 5/27/09, 2:35 PM
hdhouse said...: Pastafarian said...
"It's the arrogance of someone just bumbling into a group of fields about which they know precious little, and setting policy. Is Chu a civil engineer? Does Chu know anything about construction or HVAC? No? Then STFU, Chu."

Steven Chu, Ph.D (born February 28, 1948), is an American physicist and currently the 12th United States Secretary of Energy. As a scientist, Chu is known for his research in cooling and trapping of atoms with laser light, which won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1997.

Hey let's get a HVAC guy and have him teach science to Dr. Chu. ohhh and Pastafarian STFU.

Is this the best you got?; 5/27/09, 2:36 PM
Henry said...: Pastafarian -- Along with the white vinyl roads and the cool gray roofs the federal speed limit of 35 mph will further reduce carbon emissions. It's a win, win, win.

I look forward to the return of the panama suit.; 5/27/09, 2:37 PM
Crimso said...: Wouldn't it make sense to make roofs (or rooves, if it would get Anthony on board with this great idea of mine) and roads out of mirrors? Sure, we'd have to be a lot more careful as we go about our daily business, but it is the survival of the human race at stake here.; 5/27/09, 2:39 PM
Crimso said...: "which won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1997."

I can count two Nobel laureates as either current or former colleagues (not to mention the ones I know or have merely met). That talisman won't work with me. For every Chu, I can point out a Mullis.; 5/27/09, 2:43 PM
Palladian said...: "Hey let's get a HVAC guy and have him teach science to Dr. Chu."

Would you pay Chu to install your HVAC system?

What am I talking about! You can't even afford a window unit for your dingy SRO.; 5/27/09, 2:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Huh. Until now, I'd thought "albedo" was a scientific term for albinos' sex drive.; 5/27/09, 2:46 PM
Palladian said...: Remember the HD House rule of science: if you are a scientist, then you are an EXPERT IN EVERYTHINGZ!!1

Have your local physicist do your heart transplant!

Hey, why doesn't CHU use his magic prize-winning cooling-and-trapping LAZERZ to cool down the planet?!?

He has a MAGIC COOLING LAZER and he's talking about roovz?!?!; 5/27/09, 2:48 PM
Palladian said...: How long before Cedarford comes in and tells us that the Chus are ruining everything?; 5/27/09, 2:49 PM
Henry said...: He's an AlbedoConservative; 5/27/09, 2:55 PM
garage mahal said...: I thought we agreed long ago to defer to right wing bloggers on atmospheric science instead of atmospheric scientists themselves?; 5/27/09, 2:58 PM
Crimso said...: "I thought we agreed long ago to defer to right wing bloggers on atmospheric science instead of atmospheric scientists themselves?"

Have they finally discovered some practical means for removing phlogiston from air? If not, then they're really not helping matters.; 5/27/09, 3:05 PM
Palladian said...: "I thought we agreed long ago to defer to right wing bloggers on atmospheric science instead of atmospheric scientists themselves?"

Dr Chu isn't an "atmospheric scientist". He's a physicist. His environmental advocacy is extracurricular.

Which I suppose is a suitable credential for the Obama administration.; 5/27/09, 3:07 PM
Anonymous said...: "Environmentalists insist the developed world must commit to cutting carbon emissions in order to set an example for poorer countries."

Because we all know that people in those poorer countries are such happy, childlike people, and that's why they have such crappy living conditions.; 5/27/09, 3:07 PM
Anonymous said...: His environmental advocacy is extracurricular.

So is Obama's interest in foreign policy.

Perhaps they should start clubs.; 5/27/09, 3:13 PM
garage mahal said...: True, just checked his bio and it's full of pointy head bullshit degrees and awards like the Nobel Prize in Physics (1997) (LOL) yada yada yada.

Steven Chu is the former director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, and a professor of Physics and Cellular and Molecular Biology of the University of California, Berkeley. Previously, he held positions at Stanford University and AT&T Bell Laboratories.

Professor Chu's research in atomic physics, quantum electronics, polymer and biophysics include tests of fundamental theories in physics, the development of methods to laser cool and trap atoms, atom interferometry, and the manipulation and study of polymers and biological systems at the single molecule level.

While at Stanford, he helped start Bio-X, a multi-disciplinary initiative that brings together the physical and biological sciences with engineering and medicine. Chu has received numerous awards, including co-winner of the Nobel Prize in Physics (1997). He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, the American Philosophical Society, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the Academia Sinica, and is a foreign member of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the Korean Academy of Science and Engineering. .

What the fuck would this guy know that Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh don't?; 5/27/09, 3:14 PM
garage mahal said...: I'll stick with Sarah Palin. Thanks! "Professor".; 5/27/09, 3:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Yeah, that's pretty impressive Garage.

I still don't see anything in that bio dealing with climatology. n fact, he doesn't even deal with large-scale physics, which is dramatically different.

If I ever have a question about something at the atomic level, I'll keep him on my short list. Anything bigger...no.; 5/27/09, 3:21 PM
Christy said...: Obama did mention nuclear power during the election. He supported it if it could be made safe enough. Which of course gives him an out. It will never be safe enough for him.

Hey! Flat roofs, covered in soil, good drains, and grow our own veggies! What could be greener.; 5/27/09, 3:35 PM
paul a'barge said...: "heat reflected back into space"

Hah Hah Hah.

Try this: reflected back into the atmosphereWhat kind of a moron thinks the heat is going to go into space?

Oh that Barack and his science adviser. How they kid.

PS - what if you live where it's cold and you want the heat to be absorbed into the structure?; 5/27/09, 3:35 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: Professor Chu's research in atomic physics, quantum electronics, polymer and biophysics include tests of fundamental theories in physics, the development of methods to laser cool and trap atoms, atom interferometry, and the manipulation and study of polymers and biological systems at the single molecule level.

Yah. And he probably still needs his wife to make sure his socks match in the morning and he doesn't dribble soup on himself at parties.

I bet he wouldn't be able to calibrate the correct water/air pressure in a bladder tank or design a lawn sprinkler system.

:-P; 5/27/09, 3:45 PM
garage mahal said...: Too smart!; 5/27/09, 3:50 PM
Sofa King said...: Try this: reflected back into the atmosphereWhat kind of a moron thinks the heat is going to go into space?

Huh? How do you think the sun's heat reaches us?; 5/27/09, 3:54 PM
rhhardin said...: There is no warming crisis. I don't know if that comes into the planning anywhere.

The key thing to look for in identifying science is curiosity.

It's lacking in career-track managers, which is what you're trying to distinguish scientists from.

Advanced players can ask where the Navier Stokes equations are in this or that model.; 5/27/09, 3:57 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Chu's math must be wrong.

If we save 11 years of Co2 emissions from cars, that would mean we would not use the equivalent of 11 years of auto fuel right?

That can't be even close to correct- I assume one of the media's stenographers misunderstood what Chu said and so they f'ed up the news report.; 5/27/09, 4:11 PM
hdhouse said...: Crimso said...
" That talisman won't work with me. For every Chu, I can point out a Mullis."

and for every Crimso I can point out a Palladian.; 5/27/09, 4:19 PM
hdhouse said...: Palladian said...
Remember the HD House rule of science: if you are a scientist, then you are an EXPERT IN EVERYTHINGZ!!"

and the Palladian rule of everyday life: "stupid here, stupid there, ohmy ohme stupid everywhere".

Honestly Palladian, you are lame today.; 5/27/09, 4:23 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: I suggest everybody who doesn't care about the atmosphere and would like for their utility bills to continue to climb...to ignore any new scientific information that might help out.

You know...Republicans.

Caring about the atmosphere and buying into the Global Warming craze are two very different things.

What you need to keep in mind is that the Earth has had a much higher CO2 concentration in its atmosphere than it does now for much, if not most, if its history. Also, CO2 turns out to be quite useful for plant growth. Actually, it is a necessity, and most plants grow better with more CO2. Plus, they apparently tend to put more into roots and less into leaves with more more CO2, which results in more topsoil, and, ultimately, more plant growth and more food.

I think that the better science right now is suggesting that we were ending a slight global warming mini-cycle as we head into a mini-ice age, and that maybe the greenhouse effects of that CO2 concentrations may help to slow that down a little bit, but just a little.

Still, even if it were getting a bit warmer, is that really that bad? I would suggest not. Sure, the Bangladeshi may suffer a bit. But the oceans aren't going to rise quickly enough that we can't move whatever needs moving with plenty of time to spare. Plus, global warming is likely to open up huge tracks of new farmland. Sure, that ultimately means more people, and to some, that is not good, but, for the rest of us?

In short, we don't know what is too hot and what is too cold, as far as a global climate goes. It is purely subjective.; 5/27/09, 4:35 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: We should make judges drink Koolaid cause I can never tell the difference between DTL and Hdhouse.; 5/27/09, 4:36 PM
knox said...: that would be the equivalent of... reducing the carbon emissions due to all the cars in the world by 11 years – just taking them off the road for 11 years."

I love this sort of statement. Totally meaningless and pulled straight out of his ass. How exactly do you calculate such a figure?

Someone should go on TV tomorrow, claiming to be a scientist, and tell everyone to wear white clothes, head to toe, to save the planet. Then we could easily spot the idiots.; 5/27/09, 4:52 PM
KCFleming said...: Stupid eco-ideas abound, but no one seems to know how to shut off the federal spigot currently dropping $1 Billion an hour into who knows where.

It's like tackling the rust problem when the ship has a gash in the side.

How do I know it's stupid? If he had vetted it through a few engineers and practical scientists, as here, his goofiness would have been exposed to a smaller constituency.; 5/27/09, 4:56 PM
Palladian said...: "We should make judges drink Koolaid cause I can never tell the difference between DTL and Hdhouse."

DTL usually writes complete, coherent sentences, likes to suck cock and doesn't piss his Depends (or wear Depends at all, for that matter). Those are the main differences as far as I can tell.; 5/27/09, 4:58 PM
Palladian said...: To be clear: Chu's silly idea seems harmless enough until you realize that Chu's boss has the power to force you to do whatever Chu says. It's these ridiculous little things that add up and accelerate until you get fuel rationing and forced sterilization.; 5/27/09, 5:01 PM
KCFleming said...: Plus, DTL claims to have left the US for some country more interested in human rights.

China, if memory serves.
heh.; 5/27/09, 5:02 PM
Palladian said...: "Plus, DTL claims to have left the US for some country more interested in human rights.

China, if memory serves.
heh."

DTL, as we learned today, outsources his empathy and human feelings to people like soon-to-be Justice Sotomayor. When you have liberals in the government being all empathetic and hopey-changey for you, you can behave like a complete asshole.; 5/27/09, 5:06 PM
KCFleming said...: I am trying to be a deeply feeling person who feels things deeply.; 5/27/09, 5:10 PM
Palladian said...: "I am trying to be a deeply feeling person who feels things deeply."

You have no richness of experience, no matter how deeply you feel. And if you feel any deeper you won't be able to get your hand out.; 5/27/09, 5:12 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Pogo:

So should we start calling you Jack Handy?; 5/27/09, 5:12 PM
An Edjamikated Redneck said...: Chu is one of those fellers that is all head and no hands.

He maybe able to figure the math to the 40th decimal point, but fails to include the cost of teh details to get it done, because he ahs never accomplished anything in the real world.

Yeah garage, I read the CV you posted. Near as I can tell he has never even bagged groceries at a 7-11.

This what happens when the highly educataed are put in charge; all that education and no practical experience.

Yeah, like Obama.; 5/27/09, 5:25 PM
KCFleming said...: "You have no richness of experience"

When I grow up I want to be an old woman.

***; 5/27/09, 5:32 PM
KCFleming said...: Jack Handy 2 Deep.; 5/27/09, 5:33 PM
KCFleming said...: No richness?

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die.; 5/27/09, 5:39 PM
Jeremy said...: "There's a reason they use asphalt, you know. Ever try 60 to 0 on wet concrete?"

And from my comments relating to Cool Roofs...you think I'm anti-asphalt?

Wow.; 5/27/09, 5:43 PM
Jeremy said...: Bruce - "Caring about the atmosphere and buying into the Global Warming craze are two very different things."

It's not a "craze," Bruce.

It's science. And if the "scientists" are right and you and others are wrong, the planet is in big trouble.

I put my faith in those who study the causes and effects of global warming over right wing yahoos who disagree with everything they don't understand.

Maybe if you were to actually read something opposed to listening to Rush, Sean and others, who know absolutely nothing about science?

Give it a shot.; 5/27/09, 5:48 PM
Ralph L said...: The historic district I have the misfortune to own a house in prohibits light-colored roofs, and it uses federal law to enforce that restriction. My attic does get hot, despite 2 exhaust fans, and I think the old wood in the ceiling conducts heat better than new wood would.; 5/27/09, 5:55 PM
The Dude said...: hdhouse, the poor guy, wrote "stupid here, stupid there, ohmy ohme stupid everywhere".

His made up words are just a further indication of his slippage.; 5/27/09, 5:56 PM
Ralph L said...: Jeremy, all the carbon in all the fossil fuels in all the world was once carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, yet there were plenty of plants to bring that carbon to the earth--it wasn't a desert or all ocean. Greenland was green 1000 years ago--have the oceans receded since then? Was Venice built under water?; 5/27/09, 6:00 PM
The Dude said...: I used to work with a Dr. Stephen Wuu, also from Berkeley. He did time in San Quentin, where he was probably one of the most popular little fellows on the cell block.

Trust me, some of those guys are douchebags and felons.; 5/27/09, 6:01 PM
BJM said...: Wut? Now we're striking Phlogiston from the air?

When did hell did this happen? I really must pay closer attention.

Aside from the safety and replacement issues, replacing asphalt paving with cement is beyond stupid if carbon savings are the point.

You do know how cement is made doncha, Bunky?

The production of cement requires a massive expenditure of energy, not to mention the mining & transportation of raw materials.; 5/27/09, 6:02 PM
Jeremy said...: knox - "I love this sort of statement. Totally meaningless and pulled straight out of his ass. How exactly do you calculate such a figure?"

Well, let's start with this:

Steven Chu has a doctorate in Physics, he's known for his research in cooling and trapping of atoms with laser light, which won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1997.

He was also a professor of physics and molecular and cellular biology at the University of California, Berkeley and the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, where his research was concerned primarily with the study of biological systems at the single molecule level. (Wikipedia)

Other that that, I can't imagine why you would possibly think he just might have some idea of what he's talking about.

Post your scientific credentials so we can compare.; 5/27/09, 6:03 PM
Palladian said...: "Post your scientific credentials so we can compare."

Why don't you post your "scientific credentials", Gene? Why should we accept your advocacy if we don't know your relevant experience and fitness to judge the scientific questions involved? So have at it! Or would you like me to find your CV on the web and post it here?; 5/27/09, 6:10 PM
Jeremy said...: Information most here have no interest in:

Cool roofs are highly reflective, highly emissive roofing materials that stay 50 to 60 degrees F cooler than a normal roof under a hot summer sun. (Now why would anybody want their roof to be that much cooler in the summer?)

Cool roofs can cut building owners' energy costs. Because cool roofs gain less heat than normal roofs, they reduce the need for air conditioning making buildings more comfortable to the people inside. (Now why would anybody want to save money utility costs?)

Cool roofs have other benefits, too. For building owners they can cut maintenance costs and increase the life expectancy of the roof.
(Now why would anybody want to save money on maintenance costs?)

And for society in general, cool roofs can even help to reduce the urban heat island effect that makes our cities hotter and produces unhealthy air. (And we know nobody wants to be more comfortable and enjoy being as hot as they can be.)

Because steep-sloped roofs are often visible from the ground, however, roofing material manufacturers have developed popular roof colors other than white that will still reflect or emit the sun's energy away from the building.

Energy, California Website; 5/27/09, 6:10 PM
Jeremy said...: Palladian - I'm not the one questioning Chu's comments.

But how does being an overweight failure make you such an authority?

Tell us why you think you know more than Chu.; 5/27/09, 6:13 PM
Jeremy said...: NKVD - "Trust me, some of those guys are douchebags and felons."

Well if there's anybody who would know all about felons and douche bags it would certainly be you.

How is the family?; 5/27/09, 6:23 PM
Palladian said...: "But how does being an overweight failure make you such an authority?

Tell us why you think you know more than Chu."

Sigh. I'm not going to argue about my career or my weight with you, Gene Olson. I'm not sure where you picked up this "failure" thing, but it's tiresome, almost as tiresome as calling me fat. I don't find my weight shameful or cause for criticism, nor does my partner. But it's awfully unbecoming of you, a college teacher, for Christ's sake, to be trolling a comment section of a blog written by someone you profess to dislike and calling people fat and telling people to "suck your dick" like a 4th grader. Althouse's suggestion to ignore you won't work, which of course you know, so the only alternative any of us have to your constant attacks and over-posting is to counter your shrieking with our own. Because of this the quality of the comments here declines and declines, which for some sick reason makes you happy.

Anyway, I'm going to cease responding to you and try to scroll past your copious comments, which becomes more and more difficult and unrewarding. Althouse has said she's not going to do anything and doesn't want to hear people's complaints anymore so I'll stop complaining. But as the cost/benefit ratio of commenting here weighs more and more toward the cost side, people will simply stop coming and stop commenting. Some of us who aren't failures have better things to do than wade through your thousands of words of disruptive gainsaying.

Get help, Gene. According to things I've read online, you're a good teacher. Why are you intent on fucking up the intelligent community of a fellow educator?; 5/27/09, 6:25 PM
Methadras said...: Envirotards and their envirotardy ideas. When will their stupid end?; 5/27/09, 6:39 PM
Methadras said...: "Henry said...

The paint manufacturers will be loving this guy. Time to buy zinc futures."

Actually Titanium Dioxide if you can get into the business. I believe it's TiO2.; 5/27/09, 6:40 PM
KCFleming said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/27/09, 6:54 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: I think what this guy is saying makes sense, it just sounds on the level of "save the world by making sure your tires are inflated".; 5/27/09, 7:11 PM
rhhardin said...: Paint everything white.

Cat Stevens.; 5/27/09, 7:16 PM
The Dude said...: Oh dear, Gene Olson - have you missed you meds today?

Surely your students would be better served if you took your pills on schedule.

And, tragically, I am all too familiar with douchebags. I worked with the little felon and was glad when he went to prison. He deserved every year of hard time he got.

I am going to guess, that given the way you vent here, that you are just one road rage incident away from becoming a felon yourself.; 5/27/09, 7:24 PM
Crimso said...: "I'll stick with Sarah Palin. Thanks! "Professor"."

I was going to ignore this as I wasn't entirely certain it was directed at me, but on reflection ("why should I ever change my ways for you;" a little nugget for you Gentle Giant fans) I've decided to respond.

So, sarcasm aside, you're sticking with Al Gore? And why the quotes around professor? Don't believe my profile? Okay, here's who I am. D. Andrew Burden, Ph.D. Should be easy enough to find my faculty web page (which is _very_ outdated) on the internet. When you find it, in spite of the 17 yrs I previously spent at one good institution and one world-class institution, you will undoubtedly view my current gig with derision (which is mostly a teaching job with a bit of research thrown in). Just remember that Al Gore and I were faculty colleagues at that school. Also note that 3 (yes, 3) Nobel laureates have either graduated from there or were on faculty at some point there.

Feel free to contact my Dept. Chair and complain about me. And be sure you mention my skepticism of global warming when you do so. Seriously. I'm practically begging you to do so.; 5/27/09, 7:31 PM
WV.Hillbilly said...: Formerly I had black shingles on my house. I had it re-roofed with white shingles.
Guess what?
It made absolutely no difference in the attic temperature.
None.
High temps run about 115 with either color.
There was also no electrical savings.
And I keep my house between 65-68 degrees in the summer.; 5/27/09, 7:52 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: rhhardin : Paint everything white.

Paint it black

Rolling Stones; 5/27/09, 8:13 PM
Henry said...: A Whiter Shade of Pale

Procol Harum; 5/27/09, 8:20 PM
WV.Hillbilly said...: Tear the roof off the sucker

P-Funk; 5/27/09, 8:25 PM
Crimso said...: Along these lines, check out Instapundit's take on white roofs (rooves) and songs.; 5/27/09, 8:33 PM
Palladian said...: You know, it's not the white roofs we object to, it's the petty nature of the suggestion, the waste and the eventual coercion. I have no problem with voluntary white roofs. Or voluntary anything for that matter.

It's the moralistic baggage and the government coercion that grosses out libertarians, anarchists and some conservatives.

I check a while ago. The roof of my building is half black and half silver.; 5/27/09, 8:41 PM
Jeremy said...: So, let's sum up the basic message from the "regulars."

What does this Chu guy know that I don't know, why would I even care about saving energy or money, why can I be sure this isn't a left wing plot, I don't care because I have no business, interests or life that is dependent upon energy or money, and...of course, I just don't care.

Oh, and I'm uneducated.; 5/27/09, 8:48 PM
KCFleming said...: Well said, Palladian.

It is indeed the threat of force, and its eventual use, for all sorts of crackpot notions, half-baked conclusions, and decisions based on desired outcomes over against liberty that really pisses me off.; 5/27/09, 8:51 PM
garage mahal said...: So, sarcasm aside, y
u're sticking with Al Gore? And why the quotes around professor? Don't believe my profile? .

No, the sarcasm was to Dr. Chu, the professor. That's my schtick, and I'm schticking to it. But I did check your profile and it was empty. My father was a chemistry professor, had a Phd, and I often wonder what he would think of all this global warming business. What is your expertise Crimso?; 5/27/09, 8:53 PM
Crimso said...: "What is your expertise Crimso?"
B.S. 1987, M.S. 1989 (both Applied Science/Chemical Engineering concentration), Ph.D. 1993 (Biochemistry), all from the University of Louisville.
6+ yrs as a Research Fellow in the Dept. of Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University. Currently an Associate Professor of Chemistry at Middle Tennessee State University. From my doctoral dissertation research onward I have studied DNA topoisomerase II and the anticancer agents that target it. I routinely teach Physical Science, Intro to General Chemistry, General Chemistry, and various flavors of undergraduate and graduate Biochemistry.

I have a very rigid standard for what constitutes scientific proof, and even more so for "settled science." I was taught this as both a graduate student and a postdoc by scientists that I consider to be brilliant (as do their peers worldwide). I'm nowhere near the scientists they are, but I'm certainly one Hell of a lot better than I would have been had I not had the privilege and pleasure of their guidance and respect.; 5/27/09, 9:19 PM
The Dude said...: Finally, Gene Olson wrote the truth, stating "Oh, and I'm uneducated".; 5/27/09, 9:29 PM
Anonymous said...: I live in Florida, but my house is shaded by large water oaks. My roof is very dark. In the summer, the leafy trees shade the house. In winter, when the trees are bare, the dark roof absorbs the heat, keeping my house a comfortable 72° even on very chilly days.
Chu's one-size-fits-all prescription is idiotic. Why is it that all the "climate change experts" tend to be experts in other fields, but rarely actually climate science? Like that Australian nitwit Tim Flannery, whose predictions about climate are invariably wrong, often hilariously so...check his predictions for how Australia was going to be bone dry a couple of years ago and run out of water for its cities...now their reservoirs are overflowing. The acclaimed "scientist of the year", and self-proclaimed "expert" on climate change, is a palentologist!; 5/27/09, 10:10 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Nitwit is a great way to describe global warming eco-loons. Nitwit is also a great word to describe Jeremy Gene Luckoldson.

Go Nuggets! I see a Magic vs. Nuggets Final.; 5/27/09, 10:31 PM
Anonymous said...: I could be wrong, but I'll hazard a guess that there are fewer than 100 or 150 physicists or climatologists in the entire world who are actually computing global climate models. These are the people who have something to say, although most of them probably would prefer to avoid publicity and to let their scientific publications speak for themselves.

The rest of the self-proclaimed experts who are merely by-standers should be ignored. If they aren't actively doing the models, then everything they know is just second-hand. They have only the vaguest knowledge of what assumptions and physics are incorporated in the models and whether the computer code of the competing models is any good.

And of those 100 or so people who are the modelers, a good fraction of their work will eventually turn out to be wrong, either because their models have the wrong physics or because the physics they include is incomplete. Computing a global climate model is hard work. Nature on this scale is complicated because it is the physics of just about everything in our natural surroundings. I give the modelers my respect and some slack because the problem they are working on is difficult.

As to the non-modelers, with few exceptions their impressive credentials mean very little. Throughout history, all scientists, even Nobel laureates, are almost always wrong. Finding the scientific truth is usually a case of incremental progress through successive approximations which lead, after many mistakes, to the "right" answer. The science of global warming will not be any different.; 5/27/09, 11:04 PM
Christy said...: Gotta love a guy who quotes Blade Runner!

Palladian, from discussions of the past we know that there are a number of commenters here with the credentials to discuss these issues. Few have engaged. No need to wonder why.; 5/27/09, 11:50 PM
JAL said...: Obama did mention nuclear power during the election. He supported it if it could be made safe enough. May 20, 2009 News You Can Use:

Barack Obama today gave the go-ahead for a controversial transfer of technology to the United Arab Emirates that would make it the first Arab nuclear state.

The UAE is regarded by the US as a moderate Arab state and the transfer is to allow it to build a nuclear power plant to produce energy, not a bomb.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/20/obama-administration-uae-nuclear-technology

So.

The USA can't drill for our own energy needs, and can't build reactors for it energy needs, but we can sell the technology to UAE so THEY can have nuclear produced electricity.

Anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

(Not to mention solar energy would certainly seem to be an economical, effective, and renewable economical source in the UAE.)

And I don't think President Obama knows diddly squat about nuclear energy. Besides.; 5/28/09, 12:09 AM
JAL said...: Palladian at 8:41.

Hear! Hear!

petty
coercion
waste
moralism

President Obama keeps getting smaller.; 5/28/09, 12:13 AM
X said...: wouldn't a wise latina roof get us a better result than a white one?; 5/28/09, 7:25 AM
bearbee said...: White House Roof; 5/28/09, 8:22 AM
Banshee said...: I'm still surprised that somebody from Chicago, even if he lived most of his life in hot countries and states, would be thinking only in terms of summer.

I'm willing to pay a little more A/C money for a couple-three months, if I can pay less for heat during six months of the year. Paint everything black!; 5/29/09, 8:55 AM