Barack Obama's chief speechwriter, Jon Favreau (on the left).
(Via WaPo.)
IN THE COMMENTS: Joan said...
Typical frat-boy-type tomfoolery.
Am I supposed to be offended? I laughed. It's just a goof.
I'm really starting to love Hillary, though. The response from her camp:
Clinton senior adviser Philippe Reines cast the photos as evidence of increased bonhomie between the formerly rival camps.
"Senator Clinton is pleased to learn of Jon's obvious interest in the State Department, and is currently reviewing his application," he said in an e-mail.
Pitch perfect.
Yeah, excellent use of the word "bonhomie."
This could be a real turning point in feminist attitude. I did think we were supposed to get mad....
Wanna not?
Labels: breasts, feminism, Hillary, Joan (the commenter), Jon Favreau, Obama
posted by Ann Althouse at 7:55 PM
71 Comments:
That's Favreau on the left, but who's the one on the right, kissing the Hillary cutout image? The relationship seems a little one-sided.
Typical frat-boy-type tomfoolery.
Am I supposed to be offended? I laughed. It's just a goof.
I'm really starting to love Hillary, though. The response from her camp: Clinton senior adviser Philippe Reines cast the photos as evidence of increased bonhomie between the formerly rival camps.
"Senator Clinton is pleased to learn of Jon's obvious interest in the State Department, and is currently reviewing his application," he said in an e-mail.
Pitch perfect.
Jeeez, I thought that was Simon and Garage Mahal.
Those guys will do anything to get a tag.
Obama senior adviser David Axelrod said of Favreau, “Barack trusts him...And Barack doesn’t trust too many folks with that — the notion of surrendering that much authority over his own words.” NYT, Jan. 08
Yet another person the Pres.-elect has trusted. To his dismay.
Joan, this kid is the Director of Speechwriting to the President of the United States, not a frat-boy.
He's fired.
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We had the same behavior unfortunately in 93 when the Clinton WH was filled with immature campaign types. This time however, there appears to be an ongoing anti-female vibe to the Obama staff that continues into the WH apparently. I suspect it is because the Boss (hey sweetie) appears to condon it.
ODST
Obama Double Standard Time.
Team BHO, redefining class-ay.
The question becomes, why is the WaPo releasing this? Are they trying to keep BHO on a short leash after spending months giving him treat after treat?
P.S. Why hasn't Althouse discussed this yet? I see that Insty has linked to a PJM article that lies about that issue; didn't she get the memo?
Chip Ahoy, this picture needs your fine bohemian touch.
I agree on both points, Joan. Silly!
Though I'm not getting why these two wanted maul Hillary, but Ok. :)
Hmmm...cardboard cutout of Roger Federer...now that would be tempting!
Offensive? No, but it will be nice when adults are in charge again.
Change you can grope.
Anybody got any cardboard cutouts of Sarah Palin?
If he's groping her breast he has bad aim.
I'm inclined to think he was just keeping the standee from falling over.
Yeah, I think you're right, Synova.
Joan, this kid is the Director of Speechwriting to the President of the United States, not a frat-boy.
1) He's a freakin' writer, for God's sake. He's not making policy, he's not advising on policy, he's not writing laws. He has no actual responsibilities. In any other administration, he would be invisible. Who cares what the President-elect's speechwriter does in his free time? As long as it's not compromising national security, I don't care and I don't see why anyone else should, either. I don't think groping a life-size cardboard Hillary cutout rises to the level of a firable (sp?) offense. In case you haven't noticed, a lot of professional writers are assholes. Favreau fits right in.
2) The media gives Obama a free ride for two entire years and now, now, they start to pay attention to the type of person he surrounds himself with? WTF? Are they setting Obama up to fail? Without the media behind him, Obama will find political life much harder. Is payback already starting for the campaign promises Obama won't be keeping? This could be really interesting.
I think you are right Synova. If he was trying to feel her tits his hand should be down around her knees.
"How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?"
"I don't know. (Big affable smile) Tell me. Oh I'll bet this will be funny!"
The most famous ship of the Revolutionary War was of course the Bonhomme Richard which was the flagship of the great hero John Paul Jones. This was the flagship of Captain Jones which sank during his epic battle with the British ship of the line the Serapis a 44 gun behemoth. The former merchant ship gave a tremendous account of itself before it blew up and sank at the end of the battle.
However the stature it gained through this battle was not its only mark of distinction. Originally a French Merchant ship it was renamed in honor of Benjamin Franklin, the revolutionary envoy to France. Its main claim to fame was its figure head which depicted a beautiful woman with heavy breasts. These breasts were covered by two gnarled hands said to be modeled on Dr Franklins own. It is said he posed for the carving for over a month never moving his hands from the naked bosoms of his maid Sophie. She was also wearing a strange garment of Dr Franklin’s invention. He called it the suit of pants that he had his maids wear around his estate as they tended to his needs. It was one of his many foibles.
(Skinny Dipping in Lake Titicaca, Breasts in American History, Doris Kearns Goodwin Playboy Press 2007)
The guys in that picture are way hotter than anyone who worked for John McCain, I'm sure.
That picture is so money, but he doesn't even know it...
Are we sure that's not a 3D cutout of Hillary?
How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?
Three. One to screw it in and two to discuss the violation of the socket.
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KLDAVIS said...
That picture is so money, but he doesn't even know it...
I get it. A reference to Jon Favreau the movie actor, writer, and director and his film Swingers.
This reinforces the message we got from Bill Clinton that political life isn't like the real world.
You can get away with Clintonian transgressions or even this relatively mild shenanigan in politics, but God help you if you were caught doing anything like them in the ordinary business world.
What about all that sensitivity training and boredom bad enough to make your hair hurt in the service of learning to treat women in the workplace with respect? As if anyone brighter than the inside of a moose didn't know that already.
My company sometimes uses cardboard figures at trade shows. We have one of one of our managers, a nice-looking woman, holding one of our products.
Do you have any idea how fast I would be fired if I pulled a stunt like you see here, groping the cardboard tit of our manager, and a photo got out?
I don't know if the woman on our cutout would be offended, but I sure as hell know what the reaction of my boss would be. He is very narrow when it comes to those little faux pas that result in six-figure sexual harassment settlements.
Some people just have no sense of humor.
BTW, the woman on our cutout and I are both at the same level in the company, but I have more seniority. Does that make my hypothetical lithographic groping worse than here, where Hillary is obviously the senior figure?
This explains a lot (what I consider to be the vapidity of his campaign speeches).
well, Joan, just because you've decided to accept your role as submissive to that "frat-boy-type tomfoolery" doesn't mean I have to think it is funny or stop from feeling completely offended by this picture.
get a backbone Joan, you can be offended by it. I'm not saying you're supposed to be offended, but I AM offended, and your "aw, shucks" attitude doesn't cajole me out of my feelings!
You sure that's Favreau? I thought it ws Dirk Diggler.
"Yet another person the Pres.-elect has trusted. To his dismay."
Pres.-elect Obama: "That is not the Jon Favreau that I knew..."
Jill M, I'm a 45-year-old mother of three. I went to MIT where you were shunned if you ever referred to females as anything but "women" -- God help you (no one else would) if you ever called someone a "girl". I got my fill of righteous feminist anger as an undergrad, thanks.
I reject the idea that because I'm not offended I have "accepted" a "submissive role" here. This has nothing to do with spine or lack thereof, it has to do with accepting that guys act like jerks sometimes when beer is involved. He groped a piece of cardboard, not a real woman. I don't know this guy personally, he has no real responsibility in the administration, and he won't be dating my daughter in 10 years when she becomes eligible. Can you explain why I should care?
You want to be offended, more power to you. Me, I'm with Hillary -- we can see these guys are fools but there's no point in getting our panties in a twist over it. I'm not defending them but I'm not going to condemn them, either. There's no need. The photo speaks for itself.
Can I second the objection to the idea that not being offended by raunchy humor means a woman is submissive to it?
If anything *that* offends me more than guys having a drink with a Hillary standee. I'm tired of it.
Jill -- being offended all the time leads to such undesirable ends, anger and depression the least of them.
Joan -- I wouldn't call it frat-boy-type tomfoolery, as I've known a few non-frat-boy types engaging in the same. It's typical young male. And I love 'em, I do!
Young and old, frat boy and terminal redneck, polished and rough as sandpaper, men are marvelous creatures. As are women :-)
May I return to my original point that if I had done that at my company, I would have been fired?
Why is it that "frat-boy" behavior is tolerated near the highest political levels in this country, and my doing exactly the same thing in the dreaded private sector would lose me my job?
Theo... if you were sharing a beer with a Hillary cardboard standee, you'd get fired from your job?
(I *don't* think he's groping her, his hand is not where her breast is.)
I don't think she should be mad. The picture is not negative towards Hillary. If this is offensive, so is the Obama Girl singing about how she wants to have sex with Barack. It's meant to be humorous; they're at a drinking party. He should probably issue a public apology just because some of her supporters will probably be offended, but I imagine Hillary having a sense of humor about this sort of thing. If she's willing to forgive Bill...
Here's what Campbell Brown has to say:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/05/campbell.brown.clinton/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
he has no real responsibility in the administration
I'm sure he'd agree, and from the banality of the little I've heard, and the meaningless of his promises, so do I.
Synova: Well, it looks like groping to me. I suppose if I were just standing next to the cardboard figure with a beer in my hand it would be amusing. In fact, we have a number of funny pictures of several of us, including the subject of the cutout, standing around with it (or "her"). It's really funny to have the original in the same photo as her stand-up advertising image.
No, the problem is the obvious sexual content of one guy groping the cardboard Hillary and the two of them otherwise draped on her in a fairly sexualized way. The more I think about it, the model for our cutout would probably have gotten quietly angry at being mock-groped.
Standing around making fun of the cutout is one thing, but start groping it, well, sexual harassment claim here we come.
Joan--
White House speech writers are not "invisible," as you say. And they do have "real responsibility" not to mention the responsibility to behave decorously and with respect to the American people. Remember Safire? Buchanan? Those guys played at the top level, and they can and do influence policy.
Where would Agnew have been with out that nattering nabob Safire?
What if Peggy Noonan had gone to work dressed as a man or been photographed at a bowling alley dressed as a man? I don't think Ron would have tolerated that!
@Theo- funny, I had the exact same thought.
Heck, I'll go further - you and I would dead end our careers if we were photographed like that with ANY womans picture.
In fact, since I work for a CA company that is militantly "pro equlaity" I can assure you that if I were to do that with a man's cardboard cutout it might be worse. (Though maybe my boss would protect me since I went to his wedding while that was legal in CA.)
Luckily this guy is a Liberal so it's ok.
-XC
Yeah, why expect people in the highest levels of our government to behave with a little dignity and grace? No, it's all "boys will be boys" excuses and winks and nothing more will be made of it. Bring on the beer n' strippers, baby, the Democrats are back in business!
Dammit, Joan, I'm starting to like Hillary, too. When you're right, you're right.
They're trying to get her drunk!
“His entire campaign is based on one speech he gave . . . I give him credit for making the speech, but his speech was not followed up with action, which is the pattern we have seen repeatedly — a lot of talk no action.” — Hillary Rodham Clinton, March 1, 2008
I don't think this is the kind of action she had in mind.
Theo, Expat(ish): I think this is at least a little different than either of you doing the same with a cardboard cutout of a co-worker or boss in that Hillary is a public figure.
I don't think it is admirable behavior at all. I think that if this were a Republican in the same position, photographed doing the same thing there would be at least a month of outrage from the MSM and Dems. At minimum, the guy wouldn't have a job in the administration. Just because that's most likely true doesn't mean I should treat it the same way they would. That would make me no better than them at trying to see this for what it is.
This is silly stuff. It is a cardboard cutout of a public figure. Thoughtless and careless -
I think that's about right. And beyond that, I think Hillary got the best "revenge" here.
I should add, again, that I agree with Synova. I don't think Favreau is "groping" Hillary in this pic.
This from Ace's made me laugh.
Something just occurred to me: why did a group of Hope'N'Changers have a cardboard cut-out of Hillary in the first place? What was it doing there?
They stole it out of Garage Mahal's basement.
"They stole it out of Garage Mahal's basement."
No, it can't be from there, it doesn't look sticky.
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Theo, I do appreciate your concern about the treatment of women in the workplace. Good points.
I agree that it is different that Hillary is a public figure.
But I disagree that what those guys are doing isn't groping. Favreau has his hand slightly high, but definitely on Hillary's printed pap, looking for all the world like the next move would be to start unbuttoning her jacket. The other guy is pretending to pull her hair back while making a move to kiss her ear. Watch out for the earring! Ladies, has no guy ever done this to you? I know people will have different interpretations, but this looks like groping or heavy moves if I've ever seen them.
Again, these guys are obviously not in any danger of a sexual harassment action. The problem is that those of us who work for a living have had it drilled into us to not even THINK of treating a woman not our girlfriend or wife that way in the wider world.
Now, I fondly recall us all being 20 years old and the three of us mightily enjoying doing what those guys are pretending to do. But what you do at a drunken party in college and what you are seen playing at in the real world ought to be two different things. Those of us who work with and respect women in the actual, adult world can't even imagine pretending to do such a thing.
But as my wife, who spent a couple of years being groped by fairly high-level public servants at the State Department and EPA, would say, things ARE different in Washington.
The irritating thing about this photo is that it is emblematic of a reality that a number of women I know who've worked for the Feds at policy levels have told me about: There was a constant atmosphere of sexual harassment, usually originating from either some senior bureaucrat or elected official. That may have changed in the years since my wife was a sweet, young thing with her newly-minted graduate degree in foreign relations, but looking at the morons in the photo, and knowing who they work for, tells me that the style may be different, but the substance is the same.
My wife tells me, by way of excusing the "alpha males" in DC, that elected officials, particularly, seem to have strong libidos, and, well, that's just the way they act. Bill Clinton, who I don't disagree with at all about policy, was the very model of this.
As something of a traditionalist, I suppose I should be glad to see people rehearsing and preparing for their established roles. Somehow, I can't get too enthused here.
Sorry to ruin the flow a bit. There were a couple of glaring errors I am too vain to have let go. I'm just typing this stuff out without editing, and sometimes I actually get picky.
So Obama hires young guys who can't hold their liquor?
I predict problems for his administration.
"So Obama hires young guys who can't hold their liquor?"
Yeah, and what a "diverse" group of people that is! A bunch of white douchbags hanging around the granite-topped kitchen island drinking [possibly] imported beer in a room furnished with all the taste and style of the set for a pornographic video.
Though I'm not getting why these two wanted maul Hillary, but Ok.
Beer goggles?
With her ambivalent fashion choice of flashing cleavage on the floor of the Senate last year, Hillary has to bear her share of responsibility for the harmless act of a hapless beer-drinking 29 year-old guy hamming and handling the cardboard merchandise.
As Joan pointed out, Hillary shows political astuteness by now flashing a sense of humor.
The second most prized figurehead in the American navy was that of the frigate the USS Constitution. The full breasted figurehead was modeled after the Greek Goddess Juno and displayed a full breasted and full figured sensuality which was the standard of the time. This ship was one of the original six ships authorized by the Naval act of 1794 and it is the oldest commissioned vessel afloat in the world. Old Ironside’s figurehead remains a wonder and delight to world not least because of its amazing facial resemblance to Raymond Burr.
(Skinny Dipping in Lake Titicaca, Breasts in American History, Doris Kearns Goodwin Playboy Press 2007)
The first lady with the most meager of bust lines was originally thought to be Eleanor Roosevelt who often wore drab and unbecoming outfits that not show her bosom to its best advantage. However due to the intrepid investigative reporting of the gynecological blogger Andrew Sullivan it has been determined that Hillary Clinton did indeed have the most meager mammary glands of any American first Lady. Nevertheless she remains a wonder and a delight to San Francisco Democrats not least because of her amazing facial resemblance to Raymond Burr.
(Skinny Dipping in Lake Titicaca, Breasts in American History, Doris Kearns Goodwin Playboy Press 2007)
The first lady with the most generous and toothsome of bosoms was of course Dolly Madison who was a widow and a “woman of the world” before her marriage to future President James Madison. Her décolletage was so spectacular that the President often used it confuse and distract political and diplomatic opponents during tough negotiations. It has been speculated that it was the display of her bounteous bosom during the negotiations with France during the Jefferson Administration that led to the Louisianan Purchase having been made at such a cheap price. Her breasts were immortalized in the naming of the city of Madison, Wisconsin which is generally considered to have the biggest collection of boobs resident in North America. Dolly Madison’s breasts remained a wonder and delight to all Americans not least due to the fact that they were as big as the bald head of Aaron Burr.
(Skinny Dipping in Lake Titicaca, Breasts in American History, Doris Kearns Goodwin Playboy Press 2007)
If I were at Mossad, MI5, the KGB, or a host of other foreign intelligence services, I'd try to keep an eye on this fool (and the other guy in the photo), particularly with regard to the bars he frequents. Send a pretty girl his way, get into his home, and it's off to the races. No telling what sort of bugs you could plant or information you could glean.
It is generally agreed that the first lady with the most dangerous bosom was Barbara Bush the wife of George Herbert Walker Bush. Although her bountiful bosom was to be expected with her matronly figure this was not the source of peril to her unsuspecting victims. Rather it was her unfortunate habit of clasping the unwary to her copious bosom in a hug and holding there while they feebly struggled to free themselves from her embrace. This lead to an unfortunate diplomatic incident when her husband was the envoy to China when she clasped the diminutive Prime Minister Cho En Lai to her chest for so long that she smothered him and he had to be revived by medical personal who were luckily on the scene. As a consequence she became know in China as 怪物 乳房 which means Godzilla tits which was a reference to the lovable monster that was a wonder and delight to all Asians as immortalized in a movie starring Raymond Burr.
(Skinny Dipping in Lake Titicaca, Breasts in American History, Doris Kearns Goodwin Playboy Press 2007)
Favreau should be fired immediately, as should any Obama staffer who participated. Rather than "change we can believe in," this exhibits more of the same degradation women have confronted for decades in this country in the struggle for equal rights. As a former Clinton support who contributed many hard-earned dollars and made many calls for Obama, I expect the President-elect to deal with this as quickly and decisively as he would racism or anti-semitism demonstrated by a staffer.
well, I have actually shared a common thought with Palladian...though not a frequent commenter/reader, I really thought that day would never happen!
In any case, Joan, I apologize if I offended you personally. Perhaps you are not exhibiting "submission" by your acceptance of what I deem "offensive" behavior.
However, no matter how many times I have made politically incorrect gaffs (gleefully at times) or cheered on friends who have, the plain truth is that I have also never worked anywhere near a campaign for the presidency of the United States.
I expect the teachers at my children's schools to have a better sense of judgment than this man did...it has less to do with his position and more to do with the reality that joking about feeling up a cardboard cut-out is not only a cheap-shot, lamejoke, it is setting a tone.
If you've already lived through and weathered what you call the "righteous" feminist movement, that's fine. I suspect this photo was more "teasing" Hillary than it was actually intended to harm her.
But that doesn't stop me from being offended.
I am offended because we live in a different world than we did when you went to MIT. At that time, making a stink about using "women" instead of "girls" had a far-reaching effect from such a formidable institution.
These days, the internet has the most far-reaching influence on the youth and that picture speaks more than 1,000 words to young men AND women who are trying to decipher the sexual power messages they receive.
Lastly, THIS man could date your daughter in 10 years. Check the statistics. Older men date younger women all the time.
What do all the offended people think happens to life-size, cardboard cutouts? Don't they realize that this is par for the course? This photo documents a typical day-in-the-life of a life-size, cardboard cutout.
I submit that no one expects anyone to respect a cardboard cutout. They are, in and of themselves, goofy, and people always act weirdly around them. If anyone can think of a legitimate, serious reason to have a life-size cutout hanging around, I'd like to hear it. If you want to honor someone, you hang a portrait. If you want to goof on someone, you get a cutout.
Did this cutout belong to Favreau? If he has his own cardboard Hillary, that's a bit too weird. OTOH, I would suppose that Hillary has control over how her likeness is used in commercial products like this, so theoretically, she agreed to become a cutout. That's a decision I'll never understand.
A couple of local U-Haul offices around here have life-size Kirk and Spock cutouts. Those franchises must be owned by the same folks. It always cracks up up when I see them. Before the election, there was a kiosk at the mall selling cutouts of famous presidents and presidential candidates, and without fail, passers-by that took notice did so by doing something goofy with them.
I think Favreau is a dead loss and I'm not very happy about Hillary Clinton's reaction to this but the person who has really screwed up here is Obama.
Leaving aside the issue of misogyny, one of Obama's employees who works very closely with him (Favreau is the Director of Speechwriting for the White House) has behaved disrespectfully toward the person Obama has picked to represent the United States to the rest of the world. I believe it is incumbent upon Obama to make it clear that his Secretary of State is to be treated with respect. (See Anglachel's Journal for an excellent post about this aspect of the situation.)
The best way to do that is to fire Favreau and announce that the Obama administration will have the same zero-tolerance policy toward workplace harassment that other major organizations are supposed to. After all, speechwriters are a dime a dozen and we all know Obama really writes his own speeches. Surely he could manage without Favreau.
Returning to the issue of misogyny, I wonder if the "boys will be boys", "this is just a silly prank" attitude about this episode would be less widespread if the same two men were "interacting" the same way with a cardboard cutout of Michelle Obama rather than Hillary Clinton.
What a total non-story, I am uncertain if a few are just being a little OTT PC or can't yet accept that Barack Obama is Our New President Elect.
The amazing fact the photo had been posted some 11 months earlier, how fast some are.
Jon Favreau is a very talented young guy and will do well at The White House.
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