October 4, 2008

And then there's the way Sarah Palin keeps saying "also," also.

I want to assure you that you haven't yet noticed everything there is to observe about the way Sarah Palin talks. Language Log writes::
One of the things that marks Sarah Palin as a linguistic outsider is her use of also. In part, this is just a matter of frequency.... Relative to the rates seen in large and representative corpora, Gov. Palin used also about 5 to 10 times more often than expected...

But the most striking thing about Gov. Palin's affinity for this word is how she used it, not how often. 13 out of her 48 examples (27%) were sentence-final...
Lots of examples at the link, such as "I'm sure that we're going to see more success there, also."
And 18 of Gov. Palin's other alsos (37.5%) were, we might say, peripheral — initial, or between clauses, or among a pile of adverbs at the start or end of a clause, e.g....

That's 65% of her alsos on the edges of clauses....

[I]t's not at all clear to me whether this is an individual quirk, or a matter of regional or cultural variation. And if it's more than an individual quirk, is it an innovation or a survival?
Hmmm. I used to know a guy who used the word "too" in the beginning of sentences, which always seemed weird to me. I think "also" feels right at the beginning, while "too" feels right at the end, but I have no idea how I acquired this feeling. I went through a phase when I used to say "as well" instead of "too" or "also." I knew it was an affectation -- how, I don't know -- and I eventually got over it.

Anyway, odd speech patterns can affect what we think of a politician. They can draw us in or make us suspicious, and different people react to different things. Most national-level politicians speak in what seems to me to be a very standard (and boring) way. We tend to find that reassuring. They seem smart enough. It's risky to sound different. It can be charming, and it annoys the hell out of some people.

MORE: Some outfit called Global Language Monitor, analyzing the VP debate, says Palin spoke at a 9.5 grade level, and Biden spoke at the 7.8 level.

This strikes me as pseudo-linguistics, done by computer and particularly unreliable when a transcriber is making decisions about where to end and begin sentences and paragraphs, but I'm noting it because it's reported at CNN and getting some discussion in the blogosphere.

In any case, even if the science were sound, it wouldn't mean Palin is smarter or more effective than Biden. It's hard to speak spontaneously in crisp, clear sentences, and it's often completely self-indulgent or deliberately obfuscatory to string a lot of clauses together.

181 comments:

Joan said...

Palin's "also" to me sounds like the kind of thing a broadcast journalist would say, instead of "um" or "ah", and to show connection of ideas from one sentence to another. It seems very deliberate to me.

downtownlad said...

I can't stand the way she talks.

That's also why i despise Bill Clinton and John Edwards. Anyone who has a Southern accent is a moron, not to mention untrustworthy.

madawaskan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

"Anyone who has a Southern accent is a moron, not to mention untrustworthy."

Do you feel the same way about Barack Obama's new AME Baptist cadence? That's a "southern thing".

madawaskan said...

I noticed that and I tried to point it out to guys that had only heard her campaign speech-not the interviews-and they didn't notice it.

I think you have to be exposed to her at length-[heh]-to hear how she uses that as a verbal crutch.

She has several of them:

though

if we should be so privledged.

if we should be so honored.

Anyways Palin is prologue, and looking in the rear view mirror.

McCain is up next and I don't think he did so well in the last debate-he lost it visually and on his "I" fixation.

ElcubanitoKC said...

I agree with Joan. It may be a "crutch", and I don't like speech crutches.

Now, who has taken the time to analyze the "other side"? A quick search on that site reveals that even if one entered the search clue "Obama" all returned entries refer to...Palin

Michael_H said...

I see. It's now time to analyze how Sarah Palin uses the word 'also'. That is, of course, a far better pursuit than, say, digging into the reasons why Obama has not released his medical records.

Sure, let's just happily kick Palin's every stammer and wink around a bit more on the way to giving Obama a completely free pass for anything and everything he has done.

Journalism used to be an honorable profession, a long time back. Not true any more.

Palladian said...

Correction: AME or Baptist, not AME Baptist.

Electric Citizen said...

No speech crutch needed here...the fast-talking FedEx guy

William said...

Most Mandarins speak in ivyspeak--ornate words curlicueing gracefully around banal thoughts. Obama for all his pauses and stammers speaks excellent ivyspeak. The occasional black preacher basso with which he underlines his ivyspeak only adds to its effectiveness. Sarah is not a Mandarin. She communicates with winks and inflections and smiles as much as words. There is something about her presence that makes you want to pay attention. She is an excellent communicator, but ivyspeak is not her first language. Mandarins should understand that their orotundities are not the only measure of eloquence in the world. Biden speaks OK ivyspeak but there is something about his delivery that causes the mind to wander.

Palladian said...

Michael_H, you can't analyze Obama's speech. That would be racist.

EDH said...

Do you feel the same way about Barack Obama's new AME Baptist cadence? That's a "southern thing".

Also, heh, have you noticed Obama alternates that "Baptist thing" with the Texan whistle thing with the "S's" at the end of words?

Almost a Jack Valenti "Texan in Camalot" kind of thing.

Interestingly, Obama uses the Texan thing, instead of the Baptist thing, when speaking to "eastern elite" audiences.

Religion, after all, is for suckers.

Simon said...

It's not an error, which makes it style, even if subconcious and acculturated. I hadn't noticed that Palin does that before, but it's fine. Sometimes a stylistic preference happens subconciously for a while, and it takes someone else to verbalize their preference before it's consciously noticed. For example, an interview Brian Garner did with Scalia last year: the latter noted that "however" at the start of a sentence strikes him as the less elegant phrasing. He prefers a construction in the form "the cat, however, caught the mouse" (vs. "however, the cat caught the mouse"). I agree, although I hadn't realized it consciously until he said it. Similarly, I'm sure Palin had never even thought about it before, and I'm sure she feels much enlightened now that Mark has pointed it out to her.

Rich B said...

Oh come on, Ann - Language Log? I searched the site for Obama and all I can find is criticism of McCain and Palin. More lefty snobbism masquerading as high-falutin' analysis.

Simon said...

Madawaskan, part of the cultural inheritance that, despite my best efforts, I have not been able to shake off, dictates that I love that she qualifies "when I'm Vice President" with "should I be so honored" or similar. I don't know if this is a British thing or a regional thing - Victoria can enlighten us further - but the standard American campaign locution "When I'm President" or "When I'm your Congressman" sounds unbearably presumptuous to me. I suppose it's supposed to imply confidence, but it comes over as arrogant and impertinent, and Palin's tacit rejection of it is refreshing.

AllenS said...

Too many you knows can sound pretty weird also.

Oops. I started my sentence with too and ended with an also.

Michael_H said...

Have you noticed how many times Joe Biden uses the phrase 'here's the deal'?

Of course not, because Joey Plugs is a Dem and Dems get a pass for dern near everything.

Meanwhile Sarah Palin gets skewered because she doesn't sound like a generic, Dem fembot.

Simon said...

Rich, that isn't partisanship. It's just that there's nothing in Obama's speaking that requires criticism. Nothing at all. He's a masterful (sic.) orator, and what rational person could say otherwise - indeed, who would dare, on pain of lèse majesté? As Palladian points out, it would be racism to even try.

More and more, as I look at the poll numbers and Obama's grim emblem of a setting sun, I realize that we are in the twilight of America, lookign forward to four years of darkness. Has anyone seen the movie Pitch Black? Once the sun sets, Obama's supporters are going to be coming for survivors.

Trooper York said...

Well if they did examine Obama's speech patterns they would realize that he answers every question the same way:

Present.

KLDAVIS said...

It could be a regional thing. When I moved to Wisconsin, I noticed a tendency to use "at all" as a 'sentence-final' way of ending many questions. After 20 years in the Midwest, I still find it extremely awkward.

ex. "You've been in Wisconsin for 10 minutes. Have you had any cheese, at all?"

Will said...

She can be just as folksy as she wants to be, but I sure wish she'd learn how to pronounce "nuclear." I'm a good southern boy, but I've had enough of "new-Q-ler."

Hey downtownlad... eat me.

Simon said...

My last comment will be accused of exageration, but before you jump up and down and say "Barack would never sanction a campaign of intimidation and violence against his critics," keep in mind that he already has sanctioned intimidation against his critics, as Stanley Kurtz will tell you.

rhhardin said...

Grade level is what it takes to understand it, and over about 9 it's considered bad writing.

Lem said...

"Am I the only one who finds a Candidate's winking during a debate a little bizarre? And very non-Presidential?"

I think it comes from a place where a person is beign asked to perform and be serious at the same time. Call it incongruity, incredulity with a dose of self preservation.

How can you be charming - not to the point of parody, and be serious - not to the point of parody, all at the same time?

Un chivo antes de ser desangrado no se le mira a los ojos vaya a ser que te recuerdes a alguien.

Add involuntary inflections to the sins of a command performance!

Bork gave us substance, where did that get him?

Holywood saves!

TMZ is going prime time!

Nothing to see here, keep moving..

ElcubanitoKC said...

KLDAVIS said...
It could be a regional thing. When I moved to Wisconsin, I noticed a tendency to use "at all" as a 'sentence-final' way of ending many questions. After 20 years in the Midwest, I still find it extremely awkward.

ex. "You've been in Wisconsin for 10 minutes. Have you had any cheese, at all?"

12:30 PM


It's a midwestern thing. You can find in both Kansas and Missouri as well, but mostly in Kansas.

Edward Willett said...

This post reminded me of something I read recently in Bill Bryson's short biography of Shakespeare:

"A curious quirk of Shakespeare's is that he very seldom used the word also. It appears just thirty-six times in all his plays, nearly always in the mouths of comical characters whose pretentious utterings are designed to amuse."

There you go--proof that Shakespeare was anti-Palin!

(Bryson adds that no othe writer of that age was prejudiced against also: Bacon sometimes used it as many times on a single page as Shakespeared did in his whole career.)

ElcubanitoKC said...

lem, loved the use of the saying. Thanks!

ND_Grandma said...

Sarah Palin sounded just fine in the debate. It's the rest of you who have an accent, ya know.

Also, I couldn't relate to Biden's senate-speak. And the botox, face-lift, both? Uh-huh, just a regular guy looking out for us folks. You betcha.

Theo Boehm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...

lem, loved the use of the saying.

I got a bunch - my parents - also - tambien - to get us here legaly left us (that is not the word) more like abandoned (but that is ALSO too harsh) with our grampas.

OMG - the sayings,

En el campo - lo que vale no se comunica.

meaning if you don't know - don't waste my time.

My favorite was incomprehensible to me at first.

Mi padre tenia un carnero y lo mando a matar, de el cuero saco un pandero y lo que fuere sonara!

As a warning, it's priceless.

ElcubanitoKC said...

I love another one about a goat:

Chivo que rompe tambor, con su pellejo lo paga.

ElcubanitoKC said...

And:

Cada quien hace de su vida un tambor y se lo a tocar a quien le de la gana.

And, Lem, I am silly, I just realized you are Dominicano.

Lem said...

Vale mas el pendejo que pasa de sabio que el savio que por pendejo calla lo que save.

Or something like that. When it was well said it had a melody to it - and the melody was (or is ) key to the thing.

There was something akin to sacrilegious if you were ever cough passing one without do cause.

You might as well be a pendejo ;)

AJ Lynch said...

Trooper brings up a good point.

Obama is known for saying "present" when asked for his opinion. I have noticed Obama answers many tough questions by starting with "Look".

Joe Biden talks in the 3rd person "Joe Biden did this or Joe Biden did that" though usually he did not actually do what he said Joe Biden did.

Neither Biden or Obama can truthfully show strong achievements
on their resumes unless you include graduating from college or getting elected.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Do you use pendejo the same way we do? That is as coward, not stupid.

AJ Lynch said...

The Phila Eagles had a head coach named Ray Rhodes.

He was known for walking into his post game press conferences and beginning them by saying "Like I said".

Cedarford said...

Will said...
She can be just as folksy as she wants to be, but I sure wish she'd learn how to pronounce "nuclear." I'm a good southern boy, but I've had enough of "new-Q-ler."


The "nucular" thread explained why Southerners succeeded in making it the common vernacular of the military, civilian nuke power.

Much of Palin's pronunciation comes from the people of the North Midwest who settled Alaska. Layered over with people that resettled there from the South Midwest (and the North Midwest again) that came there in the Dust Bowl days, and military people that found it more promising than their South-Midwest place of origin.

I spent some time in Alaska in the late 90s. In many places - people talk like in the flick "Fargo".

The amusing thing, of course is that Northeasterners, and media Jews, who also tend to be from the Northern East Coast - object to Midwest or Southern "tainting" of vernacular. But of course confer instant "authenticity" on, and slavishly follow, changes to the American vernacular made by blacks, or their beloved avante-guard gays.

Language changes and style changes from inner city black thug culture to "black reverend-speak" - to those elitists - is almost never denounced as backwards, but applauded as "with it!", "cool", "cutting edge cultural style"...

NE and Jewish elites, and add "blue bastions" like Hollywood, SF, and Universities tend to take their cultural and linguistic cues from blacks and gays.
The rest of the country - not so much.
And they find the smug irritation and association with "dumbness" of (non-black) regional language, music, dress as the put-downs they are.

Zach said...

Looking at the examples, I think Palin uses an "and..also" construction, in the same way that many people use "neither...nor" or "both...and".

She was also speaking much faster than Biden, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were more run-on sentences and joinders like "also".

Grade level of language is pretty strictly a function of sentence length (I can't recall if word length is included as well). Kerry's meandering sentences would score pretty highly. The book that sets out the formula, How to Write Plain English, is pretty adamant that low grade levels are the goal. Communication is the goal, after all.

Lem said...

Lem, I am silly, I just realized you are Dominicano.

Un Dominicano en el exterior vale por dos ayudantes domiciliarios. (lo pasa por un alago - cono)

Yes I'm - oriundo (pero todavia no fecundo ;) de la Republica que me vio nacer.

There there ;)

kynefski said...

Most Mandarins speak in ivyspeak--ornate words curlicueing gracefully around banal thoughts.

Excellent example, william.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Hahaha, Dr Goebbels couldn't resist!

ElcubanitoKC said...

Lem, que bella es Quisqueya!

Lem said...

Do you use pendejo the same way we do? That is as coward, not stupid.

It seemed to be more (I'm talking about los abuelos) about their attribution, the privilege that their atribution carried than the truth of it.

I mean they would call a son pendejo based on a single act - seperate from a whole.

There seemed, as well as I can recall a social as well as an (I don't know how to translate this and do justice to it) oderly hierarchy about who is permitted to call what to whom.

Mrs. Charmaine Gladlee said...

California for McCain-Palin Newsletter: October 2nd

Join us for a Rally with Governor Palin on Saturday!

Doors open at 11:30 AM, and attendees must be seated by 1:30 PM. The rally will take place at the

Home Depot Center
ADT Tennis Stadium
18400 Avalon Blvd
Carson, CA

Alex said...

So much for Althouse's famed "cruel neutrality". Last night she admits she's voting for Obama, and now this. I Swear she's going Andy Sullivan on us.

Methadras said...

As a synaesthetic myself, I can tell you that in listening to people talking right in front of me, each of their words evokes a sensory impact, but the one thing I've always enjoyed is when someone finishes a sentence, the totality of all of those words as individual sensory creators creates a completely different finish when they are put together as a whole. Sometimes the entire tenor of the impact of the individual words will have sometimes a thematic quality, but one they finish saying their sentences, it ends up being something completely different. And this is happening in real time for me as well. I'm trying to explain something I haven't done in a long long time. But for me, words carry the greatest impact on my senses because they paint the most florid pictures and since I'm geometrically based in my imagery, all kinds of things are going on at the same time.

ElcubanitoKC said...

There is a very structured speech hierarchy in Spanish. The simplest example: and usted and all the verbal conjugations that come with it.

It is a fun verbal dance.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Alex, is it alex or Axel, as in Rod?

Lem said...

Lem, que bella es Quisqueya!

Whenever I come back, I come back with the habits that because of inuse (i think tha't the word) are no longer supposed to be habits.

The noon siesta for example - there is nothing more - there is no english word that comes readily to mind to descrive a noon siesta - after cofee - while listening to a radio play of 'Caliman, El Hombre Increible' - or - Trespatines, a las rejas!

Alex said...

Anyone who thinks Althouse has any point here is an fellow Obamabot.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Tome nota, secretario!

Lem said...

It is a fun verbal dance.

and one that is encouraged with all of the available accoutrement's of the society.

Methadras said...

downtownlad said...

I can't stand the way she talks.

That's also why i despise Bill Clinton and John Edwards. Anyone who has a Southern accent is a moron, not to mention untrustworthy.


As opposed to the lisping queen pigs you associate with. Are you seriously going to make the case the geographically based accents have a correlation as a function of intelligence? Please. Your perpetual display of perpetual ignorance is astounding in its breadth and scope.

Alex said...

Notice the rottenness of the language. Evil, evil.

Methadras said...

Palladian said...

Do you feel the same way about Barack Obama's new AME Baptist cadence? That's a "southern thing".


Oh, like how Mr. Barely has a hanging sharp 'S' on some of his words? DTL probably melts like 4 year old Velveeta every time Mr. Barely does it because it's about as close to a lisp as DTL will get.

Alex said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...

Tome nota, secretario!

Yes!

Alex said...

Notice the rottenness, the vileness.

Lem said...

As a synaesthetic myself, I can tell you that in listening to people talking right in front of me, each of their words evokes a sensory impact, but the one thing I've always enjoyed is when someone finishes a sentence, the totality of all of those words as individual sensory creators creates a completely different finish when they are put together as a whole. Sometimes the entire tenor of the impact of the individual words will have sometimes a thematic quality, but one they finish saying their sentences, it ends up being something completely different. And this is happening in real time for me as well. I'm trying to explain something I haven't done in a long long time. But for me, words carry the greatest impact on my senses because they paint the most florid pictures and since I'm geometrically based in my imagery, all kinds of things are going on at the same time.

Pongase una multa de 200 pesos por impersonal a un multisilabo incoherente... sin su permiso ;)

mcg said...

Here's another Sarah Palin vernacular for ya: "palling around". As in, Obama "palling around" with terrorist Ayers.

Simon said...

Alex said...
"So much for Althouse's famed 'cruel neutrality'. Last night she admits she's voting for Obama...."

That isn't what she said. She said that she's "probably going to vote for Obama" (my italics).

hdhouse said...

Sarah Palin.....

ALSO ------ ran.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Lem, y que dice Nananina?

goesh said...

-suggests she would have an inclination to launch missles from the VP's office

Brent said...

At 50 years old, having watched every Presidential and Vice Presidential Debate since Carter/Ford in 1976, I am completely stunned that ANYONE

- and that includes Constitutional Law Professor Ann Althouse -

believes that Joe Biden won the debate.

Joe Biden disqualified himself by his misstatements regarding the Constition and the Vice Presidency. And he's been in the Senate for 36 years!!!

And when the hell was Hezzbolah ever kicked out of Lebanon!!!!!!

Covering for Joe - the MSM, liberal hacks and

Ann Althouse.

This is the first day I am ashamed to be associated with this blog.

Today I am sad for and ashamed rto be an American.

Brent said...

There's no fudging here. This is Joe Biden.

He may win in November, but he will be among the most stupid and dishonest men ever elected to the Vice Presidency, bar none.



In Thursday night’s vice presidential debate between Senator Joe Biden and Governor Sarah Palin, Biden said the strangest and most ill-informed thing I have ever heard about Lebanon in my life. “When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, “Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t know — if you don’t, Hezbollah will control it.” Now what’s happened? Hezbollah is a legitimate part of the government in the country immediately to the north of Israel.” [Emphasis added.]

What on Earth is he talking about? The United States and France may have kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon in an alternate universe, but nothing even remotely like that ever happened in this one.

Nobody – nobody – has ever kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon. Not the United States. Not France. Not Israel. And not the Lebanese. Nobody.

Joe Biden has literally no idea what he’s talking about.

It’s too bad debate moderator Gwen Ifill didn’t catch him and ask a follow up question: When did the United States and France kick Hezbollah out of Lebanon?

The answer? Never. And did Biden and Senator Barack Obama really say NATO troops should be sent into Lebanon? When did they say that? Why would they say that? They certainly didn’t say it because NATO needed to prevent Hezbollah from returning–since Hezbollah never went anywhere.

kynefski said...

Today I am sad for and ashamed to be an American.

Hey, Brent, can the nutroots quote you on that?

Brent said...

Another Idiot Joe Biden quote:

(Sarah Palin just had to say one of Biden's 24 lies or idiot remarks and - you KNOW what would have happened):

"Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. Pakistan already has deployed nuclear weapons. Pakistan's weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean."

The distance between Israel and Pakistan is 2,085 miles, or 3355 kilometers...

This site indicates that the top range of Pakistani missile that can carry a nuclear warhead is 1000 miles. By being off by 1,000 or so, I'm now upgrading this to full lie/error/hallucination status.

Brent said...

Joe Biden Debate LIE - not misstatement, not fudging. OUT and OUT DISHONESTY:

Biden asserted that both he and Obama had opposed the staging of Palestinian legislative elections in 2005, and had predicted that if they were held Hamas would win. In fact, while Obama signed a letter (with more than 90 other senators) expressing concern that Hamas would participate in the election without disarming, he did not predict the Hamas victory. And Biden did not sign the letter; indeed, he served as an observer at the election that he now says should not have gone forward.



You liberals who allow Biden to get away with this are such idiots. How do you live with yourselves? Oh that's right - no moral center.

Methadras said...

Pongase una multa de 200 pesos por impersonal a un multisilabo incoherente... sin su permiso ;)

I have no idea what you've said, but reading it gave me the flavor and sight of flaming white cheese in a bowl.

Brent said...

Joe Biden Debate idiocy # . . . oh, we've lost count . . .

Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years.

Liberal IDIOTS: Katie's Restaurant is CLOSED!!! For YEARS!

I wish Palin had nailed Joe's ass on Home Depot: "Joe, what was the last thing you went to Home Depot for? Do they sell appliances at your Home Depot?" Biden responds with new lie made up from thin air.



I have NEVER in my 50 years seen the MSM so irresposible on a candidate as they have been on Biden after this debate

Brent said...

"Gee, I'm worried about Sarah Palin not having enough Foreign Policy Experience."

REALLY?

So you want Lyin Joe Biden, who turned in the most stupid, inept foreign policy person in a debate this year so far?


Lebanon

Pakistan

Afhganistan

HE was flat out wrong!

He made stuff up that never happened!!!!



And he gets a pass from Obama and Obama supporters!!!!!!

Like Roosevelt on TV in 1929, only this stuff s really SCARY!


I am weeping for my country tonight.

And I am ashamed of you Ann, Constituional Law Professor, for not going after Joe Biden on his ridiculous statements about Article I of the Constitution and the Vice Presidency.

Simon said...

Brent, I had thought it was just a liberal thing to repost verbatim without attribution or links - that is, plagiarize - other people's work. Your 2:46 comment is plagiarized from this Jim Geraghy post.

Brent said...

Simon, thanks for correcting the attribution.

Our country is putting an inexperienced airhead and a lying, idiot Senator in charge and Simon, the man I admired the most on this blog, has nothing to add except a legal correction.

Go to hell with the rest of them Simon.

Brent said...

Oh by the way Simon, the italics are often used as quotes, which indicates that I DID NOT WRITE IT MYSELF. So, my Englich Prof friend her at the University of California says it;s not plagiarism. Thanks.

His name and location are available for you if you need a lesson.

Simon said...

Brent's 2:50 PM comment is also plagiarized. Anyone want to bet we'll find more if we look carefully?

Brent, you can't come in here playing the "I am ashamed to be associated with this blog" (which you aren't, by the way) card while at the same time dishonoring yourself with exactly the sort of plagiarism that Biden was rightly decried for.

Lem said...

Lem, y que dice Nananina?

Aqui como to los dias!

"Que dice el senor juez?... yo solamente soy una cuidadana que observa las leyes de la comunida, y sin ninguna culpa me encuetro con un delincente...

Pero, la culpa es de la sociedad..
que permite el atropeyo... no no.

Brent said...

Simon, LAW Professor,

I did not attribute the name. Sorry if you don't like it, but if I show it as at least a quote, it is not on this blog plagarism.

But my points still stand.

You would obviously get Osama Bin Laden off on a technicality if you could.

Simon said...

And it isn't just a "legal correction" - you are representing other people's work as your own. When you post a comment comrpised of someone else's work, without any kind of attribution or acknowledgment that someone else wrote it, you are representing their work as your own. That is dishonest and shameful behavior that I had hitherto associated only with the worst of the liberal trolls around here. Don't you dare try to bluff your way out of this dishonorable hole you've dug for yourself with faux outrage. That Joe Biden is a national disgrace is no excuse for descending to the same level.

Simon said...

Brent said...
"I show it as at least a quote, it is not on this blog plagarism."

Perhaps so - but you did not. Neither your 2:50 PM comment nor your 2:46 PM comment enclosed all or even most of the plagiarized content in quotes or italics.

"But my points still stand."

They aren't your points. They're someone else's points. That's the point!

Lem said...

Lem, y que dice Nananina?

Sorry I was on the phone with my mother in the Sug Republic.

Or should I say how wonderfull the ball players are. SNL - 'Baseball is been very very good to me' ;)

I have a theory about baseball.

Brent said...

And it isn't just a "legal correction" - you are representing other people's work as your ow

I highly resent that accusation.

SIMON - LISTEN TO ME.

I have never used a quote in italics - NEVER - on this or any blog to represent what I have said or written.


If that is the impression some get, then on future blogs I will be happy to avoid that by tsaking the extra minutes to show who wrote it.

By the way Simon, there are hundreds of italicized quotes on this blog that have no name attributed. if I was staying I would look forward to your time spent on each individual one.



And yes Simon, I am ashamed. These are my parting comments.

I am sadly mostly ashamed to find that you Simon, who so greatly admire Scalia, and hate the bias of the MSM 2 things I share, are nothing but a chickenshit at heart.

And that is the saddest thing for me at all.

You deserve the Obama court you obviously aren't willing today to stand up against.

Brent said...

They aren't your points. They're someone else's points. That's the point!

You obviously liberal asshole:

My points are not in italics. The quotes in italics are used to buttress my points.

I pray that hoisted on your own plagairsm petard, and frankly, the worst o you and your family.

Thanks for nothing, over the last 4 years Simon.

Lem said...

My favorite.. Rudecindo Calderio y Escobina .... Presenteee

Jose Candelario...

One of the things I like about this (mine ALSO is a way) culture is the reverence to last names (the key letter in names is s as in many,,,, many (did I say many?)

Here is a sonorous (a composer) example.

Ángel Agustín María Carlos Fausto Mariano Alfonso del Sagrado Corazón de Jesús Lara y Aguirre del Pino.

Mejor conocido come Agustin Lara.

Shanna said...

I actually mentioned the 'also' thing to my friend during the debate.

It didn't bother me, but since I was in toastmasters for a few years, I noticed it. It's better than ums and ahs, which is pretty much what's it's in place of. She should probably watch out for it (I have a problem using so as a sentence joiner). Obama just runs with um,um,um.

Brent said...

And so, without the benefit of ever coming back, I end my 3 years and 5 months of what I previously saw as the privilege of being part of the best blog anywhere. I now feel prepared to go and actually make a difference on several other blogs.

Thank you Ann for taking so many arrows and holding up this blog in spite of all. I know it's just me, but I can no longer countenance your lack of serious judgement comments on Joe Biden's constant Unconstitutional statements and the pass he gets. No matter what liberals have accused the press of in giving a pass to President Bush, there is not enough sense of concern from you that Obama and Biden have gotten such a phenomenal pass on media accountability, especially after you posted about the media and Palin over 9 different posts. I just guess I expected more from you.


I will miss Pogo, Beth, Trooper, Drill Sgt, and numerous others, perhaps most of all Palladian. I used to most admire Simon, but he sadly appears to be "Simon personal agenda first" before the most importatnt issues facing this country today. Which I guess we all are, but I just thought more highly of him.

Take all the shots you want now, and eat the corpse.

Lem said...

My mother reports that (OMG) our (Estados Unidos) economic travails (mea culpa translation) bodes well for the tobacco crops.

A man's misery anothers...

In these uncertain times, there is nothing like the reassurance from ones mother, que Dios la cuide.. y no la deje descansar ;)

Michael_H said...

Hey, can I get Brent's spot at the bar? I've been standing for a couple of years now, and my feet are sore.

Thanks. Pass the Beer Nuts.

That Sarah Palin, she talks kinda strange, eh? Not sure what to call her accent, so I'll give it its own name.

P-Bonics.

Barney Frank has his own weird accent, too, ain'a? I call that one Sylvester-The-Cat Bonics.

Darcy said...

Oh, good grief...I knew Brent's posts were quotes, not his own. Once he admitted this, I don't see what the point is in continuing to attack him.

And I'm disappointed too, Brent. But you shouldn't quit reading other points of view just because you're disappointed.

That's giving up. And the stakes are too big to be giving up.

AJ Lynch said...

Simon:

Why don't you back off a bit? You making a federal case of someone using very well-known info to support his argument.

I knew immediately the words were not Brent's and I understood he was not claiming them as his own.

Who left you in charge anyway?

Palladian said...

"Who left you in charge anyway?"

Yes, I'm the hall monitor here, Simon!

Brent had a hall pass, he wasn't in trouble.

Lem said...

My mothers instructions (ALSO my real money wise mother) are that an Obama presidency would be good for the tobacco crops.

My mother knows my political leanings, but knowing my mother, I know this is really CYA to her brothers in case of McCain winning.

"I instructed my son what to do..." sort of like (dont look at me)

My mother says Obama will be good for tobacco .. Go figure.

garage mahal said...

Brent
Have you thought about just changing names and coming back? That'd be easy enough. I'm on my second life myself here too. I think it was an embarrassing drunk blogging comment that I realized later that I really needed a new identity. A new lease on life if you will. So hey we all make mistakes.

Kirby Olson said...

All my books at Amazon now have a similar rating system in which they are decried as incredibly complex -- post-graduate level writing. They do it by number of words in the average sentence, and also by number of syllables in each word. But any dog or cat could read my books. Any mammal, at least.

knox said...

Someone get a cold compress for Brent.

Simon said...

Unbelievable - yeah, because I'm the bad guy here, AJ. You've got to be fucking kidding me.

And Brent - you have to be kidding, too. What "personal agenda" do you think I'm advancing?! And pointing out your plagiarism "obviously" makes me a "liberal asshole"?! Ironically enough, your own behavior -- random spamming of a thread with off-topic unattributed material, pulling "you! a law professor!" on Althouse, wishing ill on another commenter who calls them out and their family -- is absolutely paradigmatic of liberal trolls here. You don't "stand up" to the darkness by clothing yourself in the vestments of the night.

Lem said...

Curioso.. Mother thinks that her Spanish version of the Wall Street Journal and the "real" Wall Street Journal are not the same.

Curioso - She did not share this with me in live wireless conversasion, but over e-mail?

Of course I'll email back. but I will not alarm my mother either.

Trooper York said...

Garage do you mean to say you really are Bruce Wayne?

Cool.

AJ Lynch said...

OMG Simon said fuck. Did you hear that judge?

Simon's probably in his best going to court 3-piece suit. Simon nevers posts unless he is in his 3-piece suit. Rules are rules afterall.

Palladian is going to have to give you some demerits.

Harwood said...

Ann said: Anyway, odd speech patterns can affect what we think of a politician. They can draw us in or make us suspicious, and different people react to different things.
---
Yes, they can. It's a good thing Joe Biden doesn't have any odd speech patterns. Or does he? ...
---

We call that fairness number one.

John McCain said as early as last December, quote -- I'm paraphrasing -- "I'm surprised about this subprime mortgage crisis," number one.

Absolutely we do. We call for setting hard targets, number one.

The only odd man out here, only one left out is John McCain, number one.

The theocracy controls the security apparatus, number one.

Three weeks in Iraq; seven years, seven years or six-and-a-half years in Afghanistan. Now, that's number one.

The line that should be drawn is whether we A, first of all have the capacity to do anything about it number one.

"Number one, you take all the troops out - you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die, number one.”

The truth of the matter is, what do we do now? What's John McCain going to do when he's president? He says he will not sign on to a timeline, number one.

I think we'll end up doing what the Senate did, not what the House did, set a target date, number one.

Number one, I think you continue to ratchet up, get the entire world to ratchet up further the pressure on Iran.

Look, the U.S. attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president, not at the dictates of the president. There's a big difference, number one.

"I don't want to cap [troops]. I want to reduce," Sen. Biden noted. "Capping goes out there and says the status quo is just fine. Number one.

That's what John McCain doesn't get and that's what will change in a Barack Obama Joe Biden administration. That's number one.

“First of all, we don’t know exactly what he has. It’s been five years since inspectors have been in there, number one. Number two, it is clear that he has residual of chemical weapons and biological weapons, number one.” [But, hey, who’s counting?]

If we started today, it would take one year, one year to get 160,000 troops physically out of Iraq, logistically. That's number one.

What we're saying to everybody in Iran is, "Look, by the way, give up the one thing that keeps us from attacking you, & after that we're going to attack you. We're going to take you down." It's a bizarre notion, number one.

And not to be outdone
“Let me tell you the reason I picked Joe Biden. Number one, he can step in and become president.

(I say number one on both of them.)

vbspurs said...

Since we're not paying attention to the findings in the blogpost, and just stating our opinions about whether we like her accent or not, let me say as a Brit that I find her accent and word choice...distractingly sweet.

I was raised loving classic American films, where the "high class" characters in a film all spoke similarly to how I speak today -- Myrna Loy, Katharine Hepburn, Bette Davis.

But you know who I liked to hear the best?

Barbara Stanwyck.

Why? Because that lady had a Brooklyn accent a block long. She was forced to play the scuzzy maid, the brokedown hooker, the castoff girlfriend because of this accent. Namely because she didn't fit in with what the public thought was genteel and worthy of being listened to.

That's Sarah Palin. Look at the comments above by certain people who are put off by regional accents. Dripping in snobbery.

I pity people like this, and hope an Army of Sarahs descends on America to make people realise you're in danger of losing your individuality as a nation just so that you can all sound "intelligent" to MSNBC.

Cheers,
Victoria

Brent said...

am I allowed a Post Script?

You don't "stand up" to the darkness by clothing yourself in the vestments of the night.

Simon, you are correct. I owe you an apology for the personal attacks I made towards you - I am without excuse. Please forgive me.

Lesson that I hopefully learned: calm down to at least a "5" before commenting.

mcg said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kynefski said...

I pity people like this, and hope an Army of Sarahs descends on America to make people realise you're in danger of losing your individuality as a nation just so that you can all sound "intelligent" to MSNBC.

Is there anything we might be asked to endure short of that?

Darcy said...

Loved those comments, Victoria.

Barbara Stanwyck was a sassy gal.

Simon said...

Brent - no worries. :)

Palladian said...

Makeup sex anyone?

vbspurs said...

Darcy, thanks! Since Althouse is slow, permit me to link to a blogpost I wrote a while ago called "10 Sluttiest Hollywood Actresses".

It was 10 categories of sluts as portrayed in Old Hollywood. In case you don't want to click, an relevant excerpt:

THE BRASSY SLUT

One of the best things about Old Hollywood, is that they didn't pigeonhole their actresses by looks, just by talent.

If you had range, you could play a saucy minx in Jezebel, even though you had bulbous eyes Queen Victoria would be proud of, like Bette Davis.

If you looked like a goddess but swore like a trucker, you could play ditzes in screwball comedies, like Carole Lombard.

If you had a way about you, could handle a champagne flute, or a broomstick, you could play both the ingenue or the lead, like Ingrid Bergman.

But Hollywood also needed a girl from the mean streets who never forgot she was from the mean streets, and that was Barbara Stanwyck, the Brassy Slut.

The Brassy Slut isn't quite the Trashy Slut, because she's ambitious.

She's not the Good-Time-Girl Slut because she's got character.

And she's not the Upwardly-Mobile Slut, because usually life is really hard on her, and rarely cuts her a break -- this is why her outward veneer is usually cold, and her tongue sassy.

It screams, "I'm out for number 1 'cause you lousy jerks don't care about me!".

Film critic Leslie Halliwell loved Barbara Stanwyck.

She was a genuine outsider in the Hollywood system, able to translate such depths of tenderness in her roles, that her personality jumped straight out at you from the screen, a priceless quality to have.

So guys, when you meet a Brassy Slut or two once in a while, remember, there's a heart of gold lurking underneath that crusty exterior.

In the phrase of her day, she was some kind of dame.

vbspurs said...

Makeup sex anyone?

I'm game! But I thought you didn't like vajajay?

Darcy said...

Excellent, Victoria!

Professor Bertram Potts could see the heart of gold, as I'm sure you know. *wink*

Michael_H said...

Makeup sex anyone?

I'm game! But I thought you didn't like vajajay?


Under the rules of blogsball, Section III(A)(3)(i):

"When a player is not able to participate in makeup sex with another player due to personal preferences, the unable player is allowed to designate not more than three substitute players of the same preference as the second player to act as the first player's substitute in said makeup sex. Consent of the second player to the substitution is automatically presumed"

Michael_H said...

*Whoosh*

*Whoosh*

*Whoosh*

Taking warm-up swings.

ElcubanitoKC said...

Palladian said...
Makeup sex anyone?

4:59 PM


Sounds like a plan

ElcubanitoKC said...

Lem, your mami sounds like a riot.

Simon said...

I'm not as familiar with the rules of blogsball as Michael_H, but if I understand the substitution rule he just cited, y'all should be currying favor with me since I get to choose the substitute. ;)

vbspurs said...
"Since Althouse is slow, permit me to link to a blogpost I wrote a while ago called '10 Sluttiest Hollywood Actresses.'"

That Rita Hayworth was a knockout, wasn't she.

Trooper York said...

Hey the hell with Barbara Stanwyck.
There is no way she is the brassy slut. That title belongs to the one and only:

Joan Blondell.

Accept no substitutes for girls playing prostitutes. Joan Blondell is the real deal.

Peter V. Bella said...

You liberals who allow Biden to get away with this are such idiots. How do you live with yourselves? Oh that's right - no moral center.

Lying is acceptable and even encouraged in Democrat Party orthodoxy. How else does on explain the likes of Obama and Clinton- two people who have no record of achivement, experience, or public policy activity and yet are treated as if they are experts.

Obama is a myth, an empty suit, and a wisp of smoke. But, he is the one chosen by the media and elitists to win and they will see to it that he wins. History must be made.

ElcubanitoKC said...

michael gets Jessica Rabbit

Darcy said...

Not sure I'd agree on Blondell instead of Stanwyck, but she's up there. Or down there...?

Good call.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

What's interesting to me is that Palin didn't do any of the winking or "you betchas" or "doggone its" during any of her debates in Alaska. It's all for show now. Luckily, it won't work.

Trooper York said...

There is no doubt about it. Joan Blondell was the brassy slut of the forties and fifties and early sixties. Succeeded by one of my personal favorites, the brassy slut of the late sixties and seventies:

Sheree North.

Whenever Mannix or Baranaby Jones or Frank Cannon walked into a sleazy dive bar to get information, Sheree North was sitting at the end of the bar with her tits hanging out of a wrinkled cocktail dress sucking on a menthol cigarette and nursing a double scotch. Brassy slut queen of the seventies.

Darcy said...

Sheree North. Wow. Yeah, she was always that woman.

vbspurs said...

Blogsball sex sounds fun! So what's the sign for cunnilingus again? Two winks, blowing a kiss, and a you betcha?

vbspurs said...

Darcy, glad you liked it again!

Simon wrote:

That Rita Hayworth was a knockout, wasn't she.

I can't find one Hollywood star that has remotely that kind of kittenish sexuality today. ScarJo? Pff.

No wonder Aly Khan moved heaven and earth to get that Margarita Canseco.

vbspurs said...

Joan Blondell was the brassy slut of the forties and fifties and early sixties. Succeeded by one of my personal favorites, the brassy slut of the late sixties and seventies:

I'm chagrined you didn't read my post, Troop! She was my Trashy Slut.

No one remembers Joan Blondell anymore, save the good burghers of Rantburg.

(As an aside, Burger Nation is a good place to hang out, since their "Good Morning" post always features a sexpot du jour, gone but never forgotten, at least not by them)

In this context, she's very much like the slut archetype she projected or was made to project, on screen -- the girl who might be a knockout, but perhaps a little too low-rent to be seen by your mama.

The Trashy Slut is always showing a little too much leg.

Might be seated in less than ladylike poses.

And loves nothing better than to be admired in her bath, waiting for you to hand her your "loofah".

By the way, the Italian version of the Trashy Slut will forever be Giuletta Massina in The Nights of Cabiria, with her loud "va fanculs" still ringing out proudly 50 years later.

Actually, the Trashy Slut is not half bad, as far as sluts go. They just like to have a fun time -- is that so wrong?

vbspurs said...

Margarita Cansino! My memory must be Juiced.

Trooper York said...

Sorry Victoria, I didn't read your post I just started spouting off. This is the internet after all.

Michael_H said...

Blogsball sex sounds fun! So what's the sign for cunnilingus again? Two winks, blowing a kiss, and a you betcha?

My memory must be Juiced.


So you've played blogsball before, eh?

I believe the sign for cunnilingus is a wink, two tongue flicks and a rub of the moustache.

Michael_H said...

Although during the final innings of the playoffs two quick flashes of an American Express Gold Card works just as well.

EDH said...

Harwood,

Joe Biden may say "number one" a lot, but to me it sounds more like number two.

Simon said...

Victoria, that doesn't work - Althouse has said she doesn't wink.

Simon said...

vbspurs said...
"I can't find one Hollywood star that has remotely [Hayworth's] kind of kittenish sexuality today. ScarJo? Pff."

Well, Johannsen has charms of her own, but they stopped working for me once I realized she was just an insipid little insect. That whole dribbling over Obama was very offputting. Liberals can be attractive, of course, but it takes certain personality traits: Scarlett's got to work on being a lot more like like Tina Fey if she wants to climb to reclaim lost ground.

Trooper York said...

There are several contenders for the brassy slut title in current day Hollywood. Jennifer Tilly, Jennifer Coolidge, Pamela Anderson and Nicollet Sheridan all deserve an honorable mention.

But the one woman who embodies slutiness is in fact Susan Sarandon. Form her appearance in Bull Durham as a Baseball Slut, in Atlantic City as a waitress Slut, in Thelma and Louise as a vaguely lesbo slut, in The Banger Sisters as an older rock groupie Slut, in White Palace as another Waitress Slut, in the Hunger Vampire Lesbian Slut, the Mother Prostitute Slut in Pretty Baby, and currently the rich Slut who steals a child in Rescue Me.

And of course when we factor in her political stance we can of course give her the true title she so richly deserves:

Ignorant Slut.

Darcy said...

Funny how that works...I was thinking Vincent D'Onofrio was sort of hunky for a while until I read about his crazy liberal freakouts. Now he's back to occasionally pleasant looking, but mostly creepy.

Darcy said...

Aww...I can forgive Susan Sarandon her politics just for Bull Durham alone...

But a good list. Jennifer Tilly is a genius. Or something.

kynefski said...

As an outsider, let me just say that this has been such an Althouse comments section.

vbspurs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
vbspurs said...

I believe the sign for cunnilingus is a wink, two tongue flicks and a rub of the moustache.

So basically you have to look like Snidely Whiplash, a silent movie villain twirling his moustache to get laid on Althouse?

Pass.

Trooper York said...

For a heterosexual guy, Jennifer Tilly is your dream girl. I mean you walk into a bar and she's sitting there and you buy her a drink and boom.

She was on this silly little sitcoms with the Fonz as a doctor who used to be married to another doctor played by Stockard Channing and the Fonz divorces Channing and marries Jennifer. It was pretty funny but got dropped after one season even though it had pretty good ratings.

So the premise was that Stockard Channing couldn't understand why her husband would dump his demanding shrewish emasculating wife who put her professional standing before her marriage to marry a happy well adjusted good natured woman with beautiful huge tits.

Maybe it was the premise that was off.

Darcy said...

Aww, crap. And I was sticking around to watch.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"So basically you have to look like Snidely Whiplash, a silent movie villain twirling his moustache to get laid on Althouse?"

LOL Victoria.

I loved that show.

vbspurs said...

I was thinking Vincent D'Onofrio was sort of hunky for a while until I read about his crazy liberal freakouts.

I had a freakout moment myself yesterday when I watched "An American Carol". All of the big name actors there are "secret" Hollywood Republicans.

I knew about Kelsey Grammer and Jon Voight. But DENNIS HOPPER?!

I love him already.

Conversely, I used to vaguely think Jim Lampley of NBC was cute, until I read his barking moonbat ravings about How Bush Stole The Election on HuffPo.

I mean, no one thinks Cynthia McKinney is hot, do they? Why should I give that courtesy to Jim Lampley.

vbspurs said...

Stockard Channing

Though this won't jibe with what I said earlier about Babs Stanwyck and her low-rent accent from Brooklyn, I have a girlcrush on Channing and her Upper East Side voice.

IMO, after Gena Rowlands and Jane Alexander, she's the best American actress today.

vbspurs said...

P.S.: I never did think much of Meryl Streep, though I enjoy some of her performances.

But Katharine Hepburn once said of Streep that she couldn't stand her as an actress.

""Click, click, click," Hepburn said, referring to the wheels turning inside Streep's head."

Yyyep.

Susan said...

Not to disrupt this fascinating conversation, but this is the perfect time for me to ask a question that's been driving me crazy for a while now and is related to the original premise of this post. I've been noticing that a lot of people on Bloggingheads TV start sentences with the word "so".  I first noticed this when Will Wilkinson
interviewed Dan Ariely (his first of umpteen uses at 1:18) back in February, but since then I've been
noticing its use by others. What's up with this? Really, it's starting to drive me crazy. Is this a part of an academic speech pattern? Is it just me? Have I become weirdly sensitized to its use?

Darcy said...

You have great taste, Victoria.

As for me...after Trooper's posts about Jennifer Tilly, I can't get her out of my head. I'm thinking she's my girl crush.

Huh.

And yeah, Dennis Hopper was a huge surprise.

vbspurs said...

Susan wrote:

Not to disrupt this fascinating conversation

Reminds me that I heard that the internet has turned from being about "Porn Pills & Casinos" to being about social networking.

“As social networking traffic has increased, visits to porn sites have decreased,” said Tancer, GM of Hitwise. He noted that the 18-24 year old age group particularly was searching less for porn. “My theory is that young users spend so much time on social networks that they don’t have time to look at adult sites.”

Clearly the young haven't discovered the sexual pleasures to be had on Althouse. Yet.

Trooper York said...

Greatest girl crush movie of all time:

Bound

with Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershon. Highly recommended by Trooper York. Two bracioles up.

vbspurs said...

As for me...after Trooper's posts about Jennifer Tilly, I can't get her out of my head. I'm thinking she's my girl crush.

Jennifer Tilly is a little freaky, but in teasing, unbrittle, non-Anne Heche type of way.

But I never did get the male attraction to her lesbian co-shag, Gina Gershon, in the movie "Bound".

Darcy said...

Uh...saw it.

Now stop it. :)

vbspurs said...

HAH! Trooper. :)

I'm sorry, but there is no lesbian love scene like Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve in "The Hunger".

Italian v. French
Emotional Brunette v. Cool Blonde
Liberal v. Slightly Less Liberal

Can't lose.

ElcubanitoKC said...

vbspurs said...
[...]
Clearly the young haven't discovered the sexual pleasures to be had on Althouse. Yet.

7:58 PM


I'm still waiting to find out myself...

Trooper York said...

Five top girl crush movies:

Bound with the aforementioned Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershon.

Little Foxes with Tatum O’Neil and Kristy McNichol with Matt Dillon as the horny guy who comes between them.

Wild Things with Neve Campbell and Denise Richards with Matt Dillon as the horny guy who comes between them.

The Hunger with Cathernie Deneuve and Susan Sarandon with David Bowie as the gay vampire who comes between them.

Johnny Guitar with Joan Crawford and Mercedes McCambridge with Sterling Hayden as the cowboy who comes between them.

vbspurs said...

One more, Troop. Maybe more my generation than yours.

"Cruel Intentions" with Selma Blair and Sarah Michelle Geller.

(I've never seen Wild Things nor Little Foxes. Johnny Guitar, hehe)

Trooper York said...

I always mention Johnny Guitar as it is my favorite lesbian cowboy movie.

Until they make the Tony Romo story.

Palladian said...

"I'm still waiting to find out myself..."

Ernesto, darling, just say the word...

Trooper York said...

Honorable mention to Chained Heat my favorite women in prison movie starring a teenage Linda Blair the great Sybil Danning and the one and only Tamara Dobson.

Trooper York said...

Hey where's Beth with her list? I want her input on this.

Palladian said...

Haha, look at the bitter backwash of the New York Times about "An American Carol". They have their coifs in a fluff over "cheap shots and mean spirits". Right, because we never see that from the left do we? Anyway, the "review" (such as it is) reads like a bitter post-breakup "I don't care who you're dating! I really don't!" letter.

vbspurs said...

This is the dialogue between Hayden and Crawford that most stood out for me.

JOHNNY: How many men have you forgotten?

VIENNA: As many women as you’ve remembered.

JOHNNY: Don’t go away.

VIENNA: I haven’t moved.

JOHNNY: Tell me something nice.

VIENNA: Sure, what do you want to hear?

JOHNNY: Lie to me. Tell me all these years you’ve waited. Tell me.

VIENNA: [expressionless, tone continues for next two lines] All those years I’ve waited.

JOHNNY: Tell me you’d a-died if I hadn’t come back.

VIENNA: I would have died if you hadn’t come back.

JOHNNY: Tell me you still love me like I love you.

VIENNA: I still love you like you love me.

JOHNNY: Thanks. Thanks a lot.


Incredible gender reversal where Crawford is uttering lines a man would usually say.

No wonder she loved Marilyn Monroe's fish taco.

Cheers,
Victoria

Trooper York said...

One of Nicholas Rays finest films it is pretty deep and a real interesting film where everything is subtext. I always watch it when it comes on TV.

Crawford was quite the tramp back in the day.

Plus she set the standard for child rearing that is so unfortunately ignored today.

chickenlittle said...

Palladian wrote Haha, look at the bitter backwash of the New York Times about 'An American Carol'


The review ends: It includes swearing and satirical bigotry.

Satirical bigotry? WTF?

Oxbay said...

One of the great cinematic moments of the 20th century is Meryl Streep when she is being forced to make the choice in Sophie's Choice. Electrifying.

kynefski said...

What's up with this? Really, it's starting to drive me crazy. Is this a part of an academic speech pattern? Is it just me? Have I become weirdly sensitized to its use?

No, susan, you haven't. Listen to an interview with an American scientist, bloggingheads or otherwise, where the interviewer asks the scientist to explain something. Very frequently, the reply will begin, "Yeah, so..."

Michael_H said...

So basically you have to look like Snidely Whiplash, a silent movie villain twirling his moustache to get laid on Althouse?

Or Jerry Colonna.

Wiki Sayeth:
Colonna brought a whacked-out touch to Hope's show. In a typical exchange, Hope asks, "Professor, did you plant the bomb in the embassy like I told you?", to which Colonna replied, in that whooping five-alarm voice, "Embassy? Great Scott, I thought you said NBC!"

Still an excellent plan!

MadisonMan said...

Did Sheree North play Lou's girlfriend on MTM? I disliked watching her.

William said...

In real life, Marlene Dietrich was a genuine slut. Here is the range of her sluttiness: in one year she had carnal knowledge of General Patton and Edith Piaf. If you want to play six degrees of fornication, she's the go to star...She had such self confidence (on screen anyway) that her sluttiness seemed a clever way of handling life's challenges...One time George Bernard Shaw went to a dinner party wearing a tweed suit. Every one else was dressed formally. GBS had such aplomb that everyone at the party felt overdressed. Same deal with Marlene. She could stare down the College of Cardinals. She always played a slut but in such a way that you felt she had the moral high ground.

vbspurs said...

Chickenlittle wrote:

Satirical bigotry? WTF?

LOL! Really? It says that? Okay, let us compare (searches for NYT "Borat" review), ah here it is.

The NYT warning reads a LEETLE differently for this comedy:

"Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan” is rated R (Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian). It includes raw language, naked men and nude wrestling."

But, thank Christ, no satirical bigotry.

Cheers,
Victoria

vbspurs said...

One of the great cinematic moments of the 20th century is Meryl Streep when she is being forced to make the choice in Sophie's Choice. Electrifying.

True.

She was also great in the miniseries The Holocaust. But still, click click click.

vbspurs said...

She always played a slut but in such a way that you felt she had the moral high ground.

Isn't that the very definition of "cool", William?

True coolness might involve any amount of repellent behaviour, but the person doing it always makes others feel like they're wrong.

hdhouse said...

Simon...

What was that fool's name about a year or so ago..perhaps longer....who cut and paste?

Is that Brent in a former life?

Not having been here much in the past months makes me feel so much and so little changes.

Ann Althouse said...

I'm glad everyone's enjoying talking about linguistics.

***

hdhouse, you're thinking about quxxo.

Michael_H said...

I'm glad everyone's enjoying talking about linguistics.

Ba dump bump crash!

Beth said...

Trooper - did you name Johnny Guitar to the list? What a great movie, with girl-girl tension and subtext.

Barbara Stanwyck in Big Valley, brandishing her shotgun and growling "Get offa my land!" That's hot.

Trooper York said...

But of course my dear. I need your favorites though.

Trooper York said...

The Giants are kicking ass and I think the Saints should roll through the Vikes today.

Beth said...

The Hunger is tops. Catherine D. makes me swoon.

Bound is next - Jennifer Tilly! Modern noir! Gina Gershon as greaser dyke! what's not to love?

Desert Hearts is a winner, romantic and sexy, and I love Helen Shaver's stuffy professor vowing "When I retire I will simply write a short story for my revenge."

When Night is Falling -- straight girl falls for circus perfomer. It's got sexy carnival going for it.

The Killing of Sister George (NOT sexy despite the X rating) -- great British drama/farce -- hard to tell which. Cool London in the 60s atmosphere, big performance by Beryl Reid.

High Art had its moments; Ally Sheedy was really good.

Beth said...

Saints - Vikings are Monday Night Football, Trooper. Saints should win, but they're down with injuries in the defense. It's getting thin out there on the line.

vbspurs said...

Desert Hearts is a winner, romantic and sexy, and I love Helen Shaver's stuffy professor vowing "When I retire I will simply write a short story for my revenge."

Beth, I actually once rented this by mistake (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).

I went in and asked for that film starring Kristin Scott-Thomas (who plays a lesbischy in last year's "Ne le Dis À Personne") and Harrison Ford. He handed me this film instead.

After the initial shock, it took me a while to figure out that I had seen one of the actresses before. She played Wallis Simpson in that mini-series "Edward & Mrs. Simpson".

Can't say I liked Desert Hearts, although I did once see a girl wearing a t-shirt with that written on it. She was hot.

Cheers,
Victoria

risamay said...

I've also noticed her use of this word and it drives me up the wall. Via my hatred of her overuse of it, in a twisted turn of events, it's become my new favorite word. Also.