Crowley also talks about how "negative" she was, which he "completely misjudged," which makes me wonder why he made the judgment he did. Because Sarah Palin is female? Because she's a socially conservative female?
Her lines about Obama were brutally cutting and possibly over the top in places.When a man agonizes that a woman is "brutally cutting," I reach for my Freud text.
IN THE COMMENTS: Doyle writes:
It was definitely well-executed, but I thought the speech was too sarcastic.Oh, yes, sarcastic. That reminds me. I saw Paul Begala on some morning show and he was using that word. He said that Palin was excellent when she was telling her life story, but then when she got into the criticisms of Barack Obama, she was sarcastic, and that wasn't good.
Step back, little lady. Be good. Be nice. Tell us about your children and what you like to cook for dinner and how much you love your hubby.
Grrrr... my feminist blood boils.
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215 comments:
1 – 200 of 215 Newer› Newest»"When a man agonizes that a woman is "brutally cutting," I reach for my Freud text." - another classic line
LOL
Palin Bobbitts Obama.
Common Americans heard a folksy, poised but tough mom-next-door type give a surprisingly good speech.
Journalists, Lefty bloggers, and Obama partisans heard a snide, graceless, sarcastic Dubya-substitute.
The cultural dissonance in this country is striking.
They are just angry that the inexperience meme they have been touting was destroyed last night. They can not tolerate a woman of substance and quality.
How dare she point out the inconvenient truths about Obama.
Palin's speech wiped out months of the media's careful attempt to conceal those inconvenient truths about Obama.
In fact, without the help of the MSM - Obama would not be the nominee. Obama's skeletons make him a horrible candidate. Obama is all marketing.
It was definitely well-executed, but I thought the speech was too sarcastic.
Being an Obama supporter maybe I'm a poor judge, but I thought Rudy's speech was excellent.
Palin's first impression to a lot of people will be of this woman who divides her time evenly between parenting and cultivating her hatred of Barack Obama. Kinda weird if you ask me but we'll see.
Well, I know moderates who are going to vote for McCain because of her. Even though such folks do not "count" in the smug little cocoon of the mediatocracy, their votes count November 4.
GO SARAH!
It seems the pushback in the media today is that Palin "dissed" community organizers in her speech. I think this is a losing battle for the Dems, but do others agree?
To me a community organizer is someone who comes in from the outside to tell others what to do. An outsider, an elitist, someone who is self appointed.
The contrast with a mayor is that the mayor is elected, of the people and of the community.
Of course, Palin also pointed out that a mayor is responsible to the people who elect her. Who is a community organizer responsible to? Donors?
It seems the pushback in the media today is that Palin "dissed" community organizers in her speech.
Well she did suggest that they don't have any actual responsibilities.
It's a pretty weird line coming from a conservative, that leadership only matters when it's done by someone in government.
As much as I hate to say it, Doyle's take is pretty good; acknowledge the speech and then drop it. Not that i would want to give the dems any ideas--
Crowley also talks about how "negative" she was, which he "completely misjudged," which makes me wonder why he made the judgment he did. Because Sarah Palin is female? Because she's a socially conservative female?
The woman's nickname is BARRACUDA!!!
She was the starting point guard on her high school basketball team.
She hunts...KILLS!! large animals.
Maybe it's the glasses.
Doyle tends to excessive sarcasm but when you are a mets fan, you dont have many other choices
I also don't have any illusions about my appeal to undecided voters :)
Her so-called "negativity" was a reaction and pushback on the really, horrible, insipid things that have been said about her the last few days. Nearly every line was a direct response to statements made by the Democratic team. If they don't want their words thrown back in their faces, perhaps they should choose them more carefully.
Huckabee with breasts.
over on Slate they're calling her 'the mainstreaming of Ann Coulter.' There's your new attack meme!
Doyle: my annual question to you: your take on the upcoming playoffs and series--that the only opinion of yours I respect :)
It seems the pushback in the media today is that Palin "dissed" community organizers in her speech.
That's because she did! Payback is a bitch ain't it.
Why do the Norte Americanos allow their women to speak in such a manner?
I definitely think that she could have dialed back the sarcasm a notch or two---but only a notch or two, only a fraction. But some it, frankly, deserved to be there, needed to be there. I would much rather hear sarcasm than whining.
Because, el presidente, they threaten cut our nuts off if we get out of line.
Oh, wait, that's Jesse Jackson.
Salamandyr said...
Nearly every line was a direct response to statements made by the Democratic team. If they don't want their words thrown back in their faces, perhaps they should choose them more carefully.
Then they would have nothing to say.
All the jaw-jawing about Sarah Palin comes down to one thing, and one thing only: the Democrats (and the Left generally) are terrified of her. Period.
The reasons that they're terrified of her are many, and both simple and complex. For example:
1) They are terrified of her because she's a strong and accomplished woman.
2) They are terrified of her because their own weak ticket is make all the more so because of Sarah Palin's presence.
3) They are terrified of her because she represents the Dem's and Left's phony talk about feminism, diversity, and inclusion, but as a Republican.
Oh, the list could go on...as Gaghdad Bob
says:
...hell hath no fury like a leftist who encounters a female or African-American who doesn't need him. Thus, the high-tech lowbrow lynching of Clarence Thomas and the current unseemly attacks on Sarah Palin. How else to account for the shroud of discreet silence over the John Edwards affair vs. the airing of every possible rumor and smear about Palin and her children?
She was the starting point guard on her high school basketball team.
A beneficiary of Title IX, which I think was one of the best things to happen to women. And, I say that as the mother of two sons and no daughters. The female peers of my sons (who are 18 and 21) have a confidence that I could only dream of as a teenage girl back in the 70s. They are athletes, they are scholars, they are the future of this country. And I think that is a good thing. And that is a great big kudo to the feminists who led the way.
The thing is, the young women today have mothers who are executives, engineers, business owners, as well as waitresses and clerks. They don't see the boundaries that used to exist. Yes, there are still 'glass ceilings', but young women today haven't even begun to reach those yet. And hopefully, there are fewer of those barriers in their futures.
I really believe that Sarah Palin is just the beginning of a wave of the feminists of tomorrow. And I think we have a bright future thanks to the women who fought the hard battles. And that is from my heart.
But, it is hard for yesterday's feminists to see it and appreciate it. I do believe that, deep inside, they know it.
But then, what do I know? All of the young, confident teenage girls that I've known are probably going to be exposed to women's studies in college.... and I suppose that victimhood can be taught.
Salamandyr -
The "self-defense" line is ridiculous. She/the McCain camp decided to go public with the pregnancy, and then they acted as though they were forced into doing so because of some random diarist on Kos.
Palin and her supporters pretend that the main criticisms of her are 1) that her daughter got pregnant and 2) that her family obligations should prevent her from being VP.
Those are straw men to deflect the legitimate concerns about her experience, Troopergate, the AIP, her repeated lies about opposing the bridge to nowhere. Not to mention the creationism in schools and global warming denial.
She should stop hiding behind her children.
1) They are terrified of her because she's a strong and accomplished woman.
Yeah 2008 really proved how much Dems hate those!
I mean, let's be clear. Here was the Obama campaign's immediate response to Palin's Dayton speech---the first sentence: "Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency."
Like I said. Payback's a bitch. Yes, Palin's a former mayor. And Obama's a former community organizer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, Obama took that back, gave the offending staffer a wedgie, and then said something nice later. That's why, when striving to compare his experience to hers, he brought up the small town mayor thing again--saying his campaign is bigger than her small town. Uh, yeah. What about her governorship you asshole?
Payback is a bitch. Suck on it, Begala.
Doyle said, "Yeah 2008 really proved how much Dems hate those!"
It sure did. Once they were done cutting Hillary to pieces, they commenced to cuttin' on Sarah Palin.
Not sure why she would want to introduce herself to the country as portrayed already in the media as the trash talking petty small town tyrant who likes to settle scores above anything else.
Obama already lost his nuts to Jesse Jackson. Pretty soon he'll be as smooth as a Ken doll.
I haven't heard the speech, so dont' know if sarcasm is what it was - the clips I've heard were just fine zingers - but the fault with sarcasm is that it says something's wrong but doesn't trouble itself to analyze what it is.
Displeasure is the only information it offers, so it's a cop-out and often a delusion.
Women are notorious users of sarcasm.
Gaslight used woman's heavy sarcasm to signify entire absence of communication.
Which seems sort of the opposite of what I'm hearing of.
Not sure why she would want to introduce herself to the country as portrayed already in the media
At least you admit it. But I call it taking the narrative and shoving it down their throats. You know, kind of a "you say that as if it's a bad thing" response.
VPs are attack dogs. That's their job. Remember Lloyd Bentson?
Why should she be any different?
It seems the pushback in the media today is that Palin "dissed" community organizers in her speech.
Yeah, she should have dissed small town mayors and people who cling to guns and religion.
Let's see... there are about 100,000 small towns in America with a population of 10,000 or less. Obama disses them and the MSM covers. Palin 'disses' a bunch of Saul Alinsky wanna-be's, and they can't stop talking about it.
As for the sarcasm... thank God! Obama has no sense of humor, Biden is a bore and McCain is no Jerry Seinfield either. This campaign needed some laughs.
Here you go, Ann, this'll make your blood boil too. Here's Governor Sebelius:
[Palin] mastered the words written by the Bush speechwriters and delivered them well.
Aww, poor Biden. Reduced to lowering expectations on his debate performance.
Biden said he would stick to policy issues when the two meet to debate on October 2 at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri.
"When we debate -- and, boy, she's going to be a tough debater, she's going to be a skillful debater -- I'm going to try to talk about the differences of our worldview here and what we're going to do for the country," he said.
"If it's going to get down to who can deliver the toughest lines, then she's going to win the debate," Biden added. "But I'm not going there."
(link)
How come Rudy's speech didn't get labeled "too sarcastic?" He flayed Obama pretty neatly too. Do pitbull attack dogs have to stay within some magical don't be too sarcastic bubble?
[Palin] mastered the words written by the Bush speechwriters and delivered them well.
So okay, where can I get on the email list to get these plans-of-attack meme?
Because I understand one or two people coming up with an exact same opinion, with exact same wording. But when it's everyone, about whatever ("beauty queen" on the weekend) then it becomes robotic.
Sarcastic? My oh my. Well, "sarcasm" has become the standard tone. For pete's sake. For anyone, especially from the left, to complain about that is hugely ironic and funny.
She can't hold a candle in that regard to, say, Keith Olbermann and his ilk. Or Paul freakin' Begala,f or crying out loud! And she's no more sarcastic than, say, Rachel Maddow (whom I like, by the way ... she employs such techniques well and isn't a complete shit like Olbermann, or even a lesser one like Begala).
People don't like that Palin's good at it; they don't like that she's a woman who's good at it; and above all they don't like that she's a strong Republican woman who's good at it. I call both bullshit AND sexism.
I can think of a host of reasons why a moderate could very well choose not to go with McCain/Palin. The delivery of that speech is not among them, or at least anywhere near the top of the list. Nor should it be.
If they don't want their words thrown back in their faces, perhaps they should choose them more carefully.
That's exactly right.
Do pitbull attack dogs have to stay within some magical don't be too sarcastic bubble?
Rudy doesn't have to worry about making a first impression. He's well known and he's not on the ticket.
Hey Doyle, few of us hate Senator Obama. She nailed him several times with cogent, accurate and blistering comments, but that is not hatred.
How do you compare her criticisms of Obama with the media attacks on her? I saw those as hateful, and they would have been hatefull if said about anyone, Hillary, Obama, anyone.
To me, there is your hate. What do you think?
Trey
"A beneficiary of Title IX..."
Oh please. She was a high school point guard. And Title IX is an atrocious piece of legislation anyway. You should look into some of the negative "unintended consequences".
For anyone who's interested (and doesn't already know), she was team captain and led her team to the state championship in their division, playing the closing minutes of the final game with a stress fracture in her ankle (wiki).
Sebelius was part of a scheduled and announced DNC response. I'll bet her talking points were... written by someone else.
Vercotti: Doug (takes a drink) Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.
2nd Interviewer: What did he do?
Vercotti: He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious.
Presenter:By a combination of violence and sarcasm, the Piranha brothers by February 1966 controlled London and the Southeast of England. It was in February, though, that Dinsdale made a big mistake.
The press would have gushed about Palin if and only if she had come out submissive and asking forgiveness from the MSM for not being a Democrat, and then cast her vote for Obama.
But she is Not Of The Party and hence must be rejected, even destroyed.
And the most effective way to do so, it appears, is via sexism, even if that tactic gives lie to a fundamental Democrat precept.
It's like the GOP on waterboarding. Despicable ...until you need to use it.
HEADLINE
Democrats Waterboard Palin!
Well, "sarcasm" has become the standard tone. For pete's sake. For anyone, especially from the left, to complain about that is hugely ironic and funny.
It's not a complaint. I'm not demanding that she stop using sarcasm. I'm just questioning if it was the right amount strategically. She sounded cold-blooded.
Trey -
I'd like examples of "media attacks on her." My contention is that the Palin/McCain campaign is playing victim to imagined slights on her family to avoid dealing with the serious issues that a proper vetting would have turned up.
Maybe you mean the attacks by Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan when they thought they were off the air.
Must be their far left bias.
It's not a complaint. I'm not demanding that she stop using sarcasm. I'm just questioning if it was the right amount strategically. She sounded cold-blooded.
I agree that the optimal amount of sarcasm was a bit lower. But it wasn't zero.
How many community organizers were voting for McCain before?
How many voters in communities with organizers were voting for the GOP?
How many of the Media were voting for McCain?
How many voters in small towns will vote for Palin?
Priceless
terrified of her? hardly.
my father (lifelong republican) told me that when her selection was announced all he heard was one thing: the pops from democrats' champagne.
Palin's first impression to a lot of people will be of this woman who divides her time evenly between parenting and cultivating her hatred of Barack Obama.
The word hate has really evolved. When I was young I was taught it connoted fury and anger that often eclipsed ration thought. We hated the japs and the germans. Racists were people who hated blacks so much they would just as soon kill them as look at them. We hated liver for dinner but not people we disagreed with. I guess today one man's hate is another man's dislike.
Ann Althouse: Grrrr... my feminist blood boils.
Wait till they start calling her shrill and a bitch.
McCain/MILF '08
Althouse: You wearing your feminism hat to the wrong party. Palin is free to use whatever tone she likes, but her sarcasm was just childish. It has nothing to do with her gender. Hillary launched attacks on the Republicans, but she didn't rely so heavily on belittling or sarcasm (often known as the lowest form of wit). It was like she was sucker punching. Maybe it's because she's a "maverick." Gag. NEXT.
So calling her speech sarcastic is prima facie sexist now, Ann?
My feminist blood is boiling now.
Oh, and talk about IRONY. If it weren't for advancements made by PROGRESSIVE people (i.e., NOT convervatives), Palin wouldn't be standing on that stage.
Take that for "feminism."
"It seems the pushback in the media today is that Palin "dissed" community organizers in her speech."
Not nearly as much as they deserve. But yesterday's money quote was from Kathleen Parker in the Chicago Trib:
"Should Palin and McCain prevail come November, feminism can curtsy and treat herself to a hard-earned vacation. The greatest achievement of feminism won't be that a woman reached the vice presidency, but that a woman no longer needed feminists to get there."
Governor Palin proved that Americans aren't stupid.
We "get" sarcasm. We "get" subtlety.
We like that someone can score hits, make points, without having to wallow in a cesspool of filth.
We like that someone doesn't talk down to us, to the lowest common intellect.
Sure her speech was tinged with sarcasm, but that's okay.
sarcasm (often known as the lowest form of wit).
I believe that would be 'pun.'
I thought it was fart jokes. But I like my humor low, so from where I stand sarcasm is flat out lofty.
my father (lifelong republican) told me that when her selection was announced all he heard was one thing: the pops from democrats' champagne.
Getting drunk won't help ease the pain of defeat, and really, the only thing worse than a bunch of Democrats, are drunk Democrats!
Oh, lord. And now she's not grateful enough, either.
I'm thinking of compiling a list of the obvious and just ticking the items off as they're deployed. Can't drink to 'em 'cause I'm getting ready to drive across country again, but I can certainly do checkmarks.
Last week the media was all excited about Biden because he was an attack dog. In fact, we were told that that is the job of the VP.
When it turns out to be true when the Republican VP nominee does it, it's now mean and sarcastic.
I love it.
My last comment was in response to this: If it weren't for advancements made by PROGRESSIVE people (i.e., NOT convervatives), Palin wouldn't be standing on that stage.
Ann, I agree with your feminist analysis, and I'm on board with defending the accomplishments and capabilities of women across the board, no matter their status as liberal, libertarian or conservative.
But I'm not swooning over Palin. She's a paleo-conservative. Her extreme social conservatism, coupled with her record and style of governing at the mayoral and gubernatorial levels, make her impossible for me to cheer.
But that's what feminism is about, isn't it? I don't denigrate her hair, the way her voice sounds, and I don't get all woozy over her handsome son or glamorous daughter and so on. We're electing a president and vice president. She's not the candidate for me.
(not the banned Mary)
how does Sarah Palin of Alaska speaking at a convention compare to Ann Richards of Texas? I see similarities in zingers thrown at the opposing party...
Even my mother, rabidly anti-evangelical/so-con, and therefore deeply skeptical of Palin, thinks people are going over the top. She was also prepared to hate that speech, but was impressed. And she's been going off about the blatant sexism she's seeing for a couple of days now, which is somewhat surprising me--not that she's not a feminist, because she is, but she does hate whining of all types.
(Mind you, I don't really think she's very likely to vote for the Republican ticket, but still. It's been interesting to see her reactions.)
Last week the media was all excited about Biden because he was an attack dog. In fact, we were told that that is the job of the VP.
When it turns out to be true when the Republican VP nominee does it, it's now mean and sarcastic.
Uh-huh. Exactly right. But of course the difference can't have ANYTHING to do with SEXISM. No sir. Uh-uh.
Puh-leeze. It's classic. Even textbook.
Maybe if Obama and his flunkies didn't keep referring to her as the former mayor of Wasilly (not Wasilla) - conveniently forgetting that she is a frickin' governor with an 80% approval rating, then she wouldn't be making fun of "community organizers" - hey, if Obama can lop the two most recent jobs off of her CV, she can do it to him - plus how funny is it that the GOP veep nominee is engaging the Dem pres nominee in mortal combat? McCain gets to look mature and presidential and Biden looks so irrelevant as to not even rate an insult! Were it not for the Bush legacy hung around the GOP's collective neck, this would be McCain-Palin in a 49 state walk (ok, I exagerate a bit).
Joe Biden didn't deliver half as many ad hominem attacks on John McCain.
1) They are terrified of her because she's a strong and accomplished woman.
Doyle says:Yeah 2008 really proved how much Dems hate those!
Yes it did. Just look at the vitriol and hatred directed at Hillary from her own party. She rightly should have been the candidate for the Dems as she won more votes and was caucused out of the running. They treated her like shit.
Beth: I agree with your feminist analysis, and I'm on board with defending the accomplishments and capabilities of women across the board, no matter their status as liberal, libertarian or conservative.
I agree with this feminist analysis as well and agree that we can disagree without denigrating women. I do not agree at all with Hillary. Her positions are 100% opposite of mine, but there was no excuse for the treatment she got just because she is a strong and accomplished woman.
The men in the talking head punditry (especially those on the left but the conservatives can be just as bad) just don't get how insulting and condescending they are being to women.
Just look at the vitriol and hatred directed at Hillary from her own party.
I think you can trace Republican concern about vitriol and hatred towards Hillary Clinton to the time it became clear she wouldn't be the nominee.
But she came really close to becoming the nominee. You think Palin could have?
Beth,
One of the reasons you are respectd by those of us with different political views is because of your refreshing honesty. You cut to the core fo your disagreement with Palin, did not deride her otherwise.
Contrast that with the completely pre-written left media talking points. For example, Rachel Maddow of MSNBC completely embarrasses herself with the spin she must say against Sarah Palin. There is no way that Maddow would ever vote for Palin in a thousand years. Why should we take her seriously as a critic of Palin's speech?
Joe Biden didn't deliver half as many ad hominem attacks on John McCain.
1)Wrong. Because they weren't ad hominem.
2) Who gets to determine what number of attack lines are fair? YOU?
I think you can trace Republican concern about vitriol and hatred towards Hillary Clinton to the time it became clear she wouldn't be the nominee.
That's a nice misdirection. Whether or not our concern about it stemmed from selfish motives is orthogonal to whether or not it existed.
But she came really close to becoming the nominee. You think Palin could have?
If she had started running for President last November - frankly, yes I do.
Of course people hated Hillary Clinton. I was one of them for most of the primary. And there was/is lots of sexist coverage of Hillary, and Palin as well.
But there are legitimate reasons to dislike both women as politicians, as I do.
Ms. Palin really reminded me of the character Marge Gunderson in the movie "Fargo." That's a good thing in my view.;
Mom just handed me her local (W.Va.) paper to alert me to a piece Susan Estrich wrote about sexism directed at Palin (among other things). Yo!!! I found it on line: Sarah's choice.
Doyle said...
1) They are terrified of her because she's a strong and accomplished woman.
Yeah 2008 really proved how much Dems hate those!
Did I miss something? Did the Dems run a strong and accomplished woman for President? I thought they had Hillary Clinton.
Susan Estrich - My first reaction to the choice of Sarah Palin was that she is no Hillary Clinton.
Right. Palin is accomplished, has actual experience in public and government service, has executive experience, and she even did it on her own, while her husband actually worked for a living. Palin is no Hillary Clinton. That is a very high compliment indeed.
Before the speech began, I amused the people in our den who were settled in by imitating Democrat commenters after the speech.
My talking points (all written before the speech):
"You know, Sarah did a great job delivering the speech" (condescension).
"I liked when she talked about her family"
"Where I think she went wrong was in the mean-spirited attacks on Obama and Joe Biden" (Democrat talking point for any remark that could be perceived as criticism of a Democrat).
"I wish that she had talked more about what she and John McCain would do for this country, but there just wasn't anything specific for the needs of what America is facing right now. (Say this one no matter what, even if it's a complete lie)
I hit all 4 points, some almost word for word(!)
The new one I missed:
"She didn't write her own speech" (Desperation)
Rachel Maddow, keep your day job.
Yeah, but read the rest of it.
MSNBC Top Headline right now:
Can McCain live up to Palin's performance?
Question one: Why does McCain have to live up to anyone else's speech skills to be qualified for President?
Two: why does the news media get to set the bar? Who appointed them the sole arbiter?
Wait till they start calling her shrill and a bitch.
The problems is: there was just a candidate who was shrill: Hillary! And Gov. Palin sounds nothing like her. So there will probably be articles that suggest she is shrill (say those last four words fast) and compare her to Hillary and conclude no. I think that would be a sexist article -- unless they also compare her to that other impossible-for-me-to-listen-to politician (because of his voice): Lieberman.
(My two least favorite voices to listen to: Hillary and Lieberman, if you didn't know).
Beth said...
Her extreme social conservatism, coupled with her record and style of governing at the mayoral and gubernatorial levels, make her impossible for me to cheer.
We do not know enough of her record and style of governing, as most, if not all the information is coming from her opposition, lefitsts, and political enemies. It is all criticism and no substance.
Brent said...
Two: why does the news media get to set the bar? Who appointed them the sole arbiter?
They appointed themselves.
Well said, Beth. I couldn't agree more. I would add that it's been a challenge to sift through the garbage on both sides - tiresome and time consuming. But there are themes that keep coming through about her record and governing style - and I'm not a fan, either.
The Dems are complaining about "sarcasm"? Heh.
Though not on the ticket, have they forgotten Ann "Ma" Richards' speech at the Democratic convention 20 years ago?
"Grrrr... my feminist blood boils."
Mmm... that's hawt!
No, not in a "you're so cute when you're angry" way. More like a "passion, heat, and righteous indignation can be attractive" way. Like a pit bull with lipstick. Well, a cute pit bull with lipstick.
Gloria Steinhem is not a happy feminist today. Here's what I sent her:
"Eat your heart out, Gloria. Feminism was redefined last night and this time American women won't be happy with lip service. The deep-rooted sexism of liberal men and women has been exposed and it is ugly. Today is an historic day for women everywhere, and it's a shame you don't want to participate. Your attitude ensures that you will be left behind this time. A new generation of feminists have been born overnight and Sarah Palin is our mother."
They have posted 0 comments so far on the column.
a community organizer is someone who comes in from the outside to tell others what to do
Actually just the opposite: An Alinsky-style community organizer is someone who comes in from the outside and trains others how to accomplish what THEY want to do.
After Fred Ross trained Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, they went on to found the United Farm Workers.
To answer my own question from above: I think the dissing of the community organizer was dead center of the target. Also, don't think that her attacks were too much. If the media is not bringing Obama's record to light, someone has to.
Her speech was not as moving as Reagan's keynote in '92 -- but that speech is truly a high bar. Her role was also not to be the one setting the vision.
For what she needed to do, she did extremely well in my opinion.
I am also very happy that so many of the speakers picked up on liberty and freedom and themes. Don't think I heard those words once in the Denver speeches.
What a crock.
I have friends who are left , right and center and about teen of us watched the speech while having a BBQ, and everybody thought her speech was well written and presented in a forthright manner, but with the exception of one very conservative couple, that was about it.
As for what she had to say, there wasn't much to say about anything included that contained any real "issue oriented" lines, only a lambasting of Obama and red meat for the choir.
The key for the Republicans will be the independent voters and I don't think the speech or her personal and political views will garner much interest. (We all couldn't help but notice she left out anything relating t being anti-abortion which seems strange considering how it's been one of the major talking points thus far.)
The Republicans have the Christian and hard right locked up, but they had it before Palin was selected.
lisa:
So you think the "new feminism" excludes a woman's "choice," includes no gun controls, and excludes national health care?
Dream on.
brent,
Don't quit your day job...if you have one.
Former Law Student: I get your nuance, between "tell them what to do" and "train them" but I am not so sure that it is a distinction with a meaning. Who is the "They" doing the wanting? Is the United Farm Workers or Cesar Chavez representative of the community? Or are they a special interest? A mayor must represent, and be responsible to, all constituencies.
And, if the debate stays on this point, it is a loser for Obama.
the Obama campaign's immediate response to Palin's Dayton speech---the first sentence: "Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency."
First, Obama's campaign staff have been known to shoot off their mouths without considering the effect on the campaign -- witness Samantha Power and Austin Goolsbee. They should have characterized her as the 1.5 year Governor of Alaska.
Second, by naming the inexperienced Governor Palin as the one best qualified to succeed him as President, McCain did take the question of foreign policy experience off the table.
The traditional role for the Vice Presidential nominee is to attack the other party's presidential nominee.
That way the presidential nominee can stay above the fray.
Turns out the real bumbler isn't Palin. It's Biden. He's the one tripping over his lines.
First, Obama's campaign staff have been known to shoot off their mouths without considering the effect on the campaign -- witness Samantha Power and Austin Goolsbee. They should have characterized her as the 1.5 year Governor of Alaska.
Yes, they should have, but it would have made their response entirely toothless.
And does that mean you admit it was weak for Obama himself to ignore her governorship when comparing his campaign's bureaucracy to Wasilla's?
Second, by naming the inexperienced Governor Palin as the one best qualified to succeed him as President, McCain did take the question of foreign policy experience off the table.
Nonsense. McCain already brought the experience to the ticket.
The community is a group of people with a goal or goals that have not been able to accomplish their goals on their own. In Chicago the community organizations are based in geography, such as the Woodlawn Organization, or the Back of the Yards (stockyards) Neighborhood Council. They would work together for safe neighborhoods, for example. Making sure that property owners kept their property in good repair, free of graffiti. Campaigning against a profusion of liquor stores, or gang hangouts. Things like that.
That all sounds good, FLS. Maybe it would be helpful if Obama talked about what he accomplished as a community advisor. Perhaps more information about his work for ACORN would be a good start.
advisor -> organizer
McCain already brought the experience to the ticket.
But, as McCain pointed out in February, “We all know that the highest priority is someone who can take your place.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/us/politics/24mccain.html?ex=1361595600&en=af9f54157106b2d6&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
As he told Don Imus at the beginning of April, “I’m aware of enhanced importance of this issue given my age.’’
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/mccain-considering-vice-presidential-picks/
So given what he had said, he must think of Mrs. Palin as someone who could replace him at any time.
So given that he had said, he must think of Mrs. Palin of someone who could replace him at any time.
You put the words "at any time" there, not him. I don't think anyone seriously expects him to keel over in, say, less than 18 months. And since, apparently, Obama is claiming that his 18 months of campaign experience is sufficient to justify his fitness for the Presidency, that ought to do it.
Of course, Obama's comments were pretty silly on a number of levels. Campaigning isn't even close to running a country. But governing a state is a lot closer. So there is a lot Palin will not have to learn that Obama will.
And again: if Biden is to be believed, the Presidency is not the place for on-the-job training. But if the 1984 New York Times editorial board is to be believed, the Vice Presidency is an entirely different matter.
Besides, FLS, if you keep up this line of argument, John McCain's momma is gonna come kick your ass.
Ann, if you don't like the criticism that Gov. Palin was "sarcastic," I would love to get your reaction to the numerous comments that she was "shrill."
I might accept the 'sarcastic' comment from some quarters if those same people didn't get their news from Stephen Colbert and John Stewart.
Humor is a weapon and you can laugh along and respond in kind, or get your widdle feewings hurt by the mean glasses-lady.
If you're worried about sarcasm from someone you considered utterly unqualified 36 minutes before she started speaking, then you're probably unprepared for Vladimir Putin or Mahmound Ahmedinejad.
It's not the sarcasm that bothers them. It's that someone they consider unworthy used sarcasm.
I sense a full-out panic on the part of the Dems and the media.
They are confronted with a strong, intelligent, capable, confident (and attractive, which makes her that much more intimidating) woman who just happens to NOT be a Democrat, and they are absolutely wetting through their Depends.
The subtext is clear -- they are furious that John McCain had the guts to do what their candidate didn't have the courage to do -- to share the ticket with a smart, savvy, tough woman.
So much so, they're driven to using the kind of demeaning, anti-feminist, sexist remarks that they would find appalling if they were expressed about one of their own.
Which, btw, only serves to drive more swing voters to the McCain/Palin ticket.
I don't normally call elections this early, but this has the makings of a rout.
The best part of her speech was that she was sarcastic.
Nothing like sarcasm coming from a woman whose dark hair is put up. Got that whole Tina Fey thing going on.
I didn't see her as being over the top at any point. Just being strong. Maybe those libs can't handle a strong woman.
Michael @ 12:09 The Republicans have the Christian and hard right locked up, but they had it before Palin was selected.
Really? I thought that both those constituencies were at risk for sitting out the election, or at least going into the election without much energy.
McCain energized them by selection Palin. She put them over the top with her acceptance speech, without alienating too many in the center.
It doesn't matter how many of the talking heads she pisses off.
Scratch that. It only helps if, at the same time, she manages to piss off the chattering class and the majority of the left.
Women get this all the time. I also loathe the perennial, "Oh, well you seem to be getting angry, so maybe we shouldn't discuss this," that women often get when they make sharp, direct points. Heaven forbid we womenfolk do some arguing; why, it just ain't ladylike!
I'm having trouble deciding whether the bulk of the media and the left are too cynical, solipsistic or stupid to be embarrassed by their sexism and hypocrisy.
Does anybody else have the sense that there is something about this woman and her family that infuriates them?
Since when is calling a speech "sarcastic" sexist?
Is there anyway to disagree with Palin without being SEXIST!!!!
Lame.
What about issues? Is attacking her on the issues sexist, because oh lookie right here, Sarah Palin's own handwriting praising her city council for bringing in 420k for a new poop tank in Wasilla. What earmarks?!
Re. Freeman @ 1:31 -- Palin never crossed the line into being angry. She also never pulled the victim card. With her rhetorical skills, I don't think she'll have to.
Not that I'd want to be on the receiving end of her anger.
Terri,
"The female peers of my sons (who are 18 and 21) have a confidence that I could only dream of as a teenage girl back in the 70s. They are athletes, they are scholars..."
Certainly you had your experience, but I wouldn't be so quick to generalize from it. My female competitors in pre-Title IX high school academic achievement, a few of whom surpassed me, lacked nothing in accomplishments, confidence, and (in several cases) competitiveness.
MadisonMan,
"...unless they also compare her to that other impossible-for-me-to-listen-to politician (because of his voice): Lieberman"
Does that mean I have a huge advantage in not having neither antenna nor cable?
Peter, I'm not even referring to anger. Plain directness is, from a female, often interpreted as anger. It's amusing.
Ann says (or, more accurately, implies) that the word "sarcastic" is code for step back, little lady. Be good. Be nice. Tell us about your children and what you like to cook for dinner and how much you love your hubby.
I don't see it. It sounds like they're just saying that Palin was overly sarcastic, which can be off-putting to some people.
Women, know your limits!
rhhardin >Women are notorious users of sarcasm.
Men slash with a broadsword; women parry and thrust with a rapier.
The most amusing part about the Palin push back is that all of men complaining obviously have/had mothers, perhaps wives and girlfriends/pals so NOW they're surprised that women are sarcastic?
Gees.
get. a. clue. (oops! there I go again)
I bet Hillary's laughing her many-hued pants suits off watching Libs flail helplessly when the tactics openly used against her are seen for what they are: misogyny and political malpractice by a party claiming to value and empower women.
John McCain's momma is gonna come kick your ass
The Wrights are long-lived stock; the McCains are unfortunately not. Both John I and John II died suddenly of heart attacks (at 61 and at 70). Because John III is in extra innings, so to speak, I would like to see his stress EKG and echocardiogram.
As Tim Russert's case showed, anybody over 50 can have a heart attack at any time.
Well, fair point, my maternal grandfather croaked pretty young, but my maternal grandmother lived to a ripe old age. I'm certainly hoping I've got the old genes myself.
Doyles says:
"I'm just questioning if it was the right amount strategically. She sounded cold-blooded."
I beg to differ. I think she was cutting and yet came across likeable. Very few people can pull that off.
Poor Begala...What happened to the sarcastic Begala?
The Lioness, make you swallow it?
Poor, poor Paul.
Two points:
Actually just the opposite: An Alinsky-style community organizer is someone who comes in from the outside and trains others how to accomplish what THEY want to do.
1.) So community organizers actually don't take responsibility themselves. Where did I hear that?
2.) The most important difference between Palin and Hillary is what Palin described as a "servant's heart."
Hillary succeeds like no other in making me feel like I'm one of the "help."
McCain can't be this smart. No one is this smart. The effect Sarah Palin is having on this election will go down in history as the most surprisingly devastating strategic move ever made by an American politician.
Tonight, McCain should paint a picture of the "Congress of the Future" after he is gone. It will be filled with people like Palin and with many many new faces.
Hell why stop there? Picture a Sunday morning news show where Joe Q. Public asks the questions- Call it Meet The Taxpayer and scrap Meet The Press.
"
Is there anyway to disagree with Palin without being SEXIST!!!!"
No more than there's anyway to criticize Obama without being RACIST.
You sexist pig.
Sauce. Goose. Gander.
Freeman @ 1:41 -- I understand your point. Perhaps I should have written that Palin not only didn't cross the line to anger, she spoke in a way that makes it hard for her detractors to accuse her of sounding angry. Instead, they've been forced to say that she sounded sarcastic.
Advantage: Palin.
Sarcastic?!?
I suppose a remark about bitter small-town hicks clinging to their guns and religion isn't at all sarcastic or condescending. Give me a break.
former law student said...
In Chicago the community organizations are based in geography, such as the Woodlawn Organization, or the Back of the Yards (stockyards) Neighborhood Council. They would work together for safe neighborhoods, for example. Making sure that property owners kept their property in good repair, free of graffiti.
Campaigning against a profusion of liquor stores, or gang hangouts. Things like that.
TWO and BOY are old school, entrenched organizations and part and parcel of the Chicago Democratic Party. Let us talk about some “real” community organizations in Chicago:
La Raza, infiltrated, bought and paid for by the Latin King Street gang.
21st Century Vote started by the Black Disciples Street Gang.
ACORN an SEIU front that commits election fraud.
Cease Fire- a jobs program for so called former gang bangers
Then we have organizers:
Fr. Michael Phleger- a priest who thinks it is OK to commit crimes and get away with them.
Wallace Gator Bradley- street gang member, convicted felon, who poses as an organizer.
Slim Coleman- Corrupt organizer, now a corrupt preacher.
That is a short list off the top of my head. Safe neighborhoods, graffiti eradication, etc. etc. etc. All community criminals.
BTW, I live in Chicago. Do you?
My wife's major comment: "I'm just glad she didn't cry." Granted I'm a bit emo, and I welled up at least three times, but I was very impressed that she kept her composure at all times. No one wants an ice queen, but even too much of a break in her voice would have cast her as too soft to be a leader. She would have lost credibility in my wife's eyes, and no doubt the eyes of many others. Well done.
I thought Palin was good to great. I thought the "community organizer" swipes were unnecessary and will blow back on her. Obama had already diminished himself by comparing his experience to hers, no need to insult him, and by extension, his "community".
Now I can't shake the nagging feeling that I just watched Woodstock. Next up - Altamont. Whatever the Dems/left have on her for real, they'll release now, when she can't gin up another 20 million viewers to create a new first impression.
former law student>The Wrights are long-lived stock; the McCains are unfortunately not. Both John I and John II died suddenly of heart attacks (at 61 and at 70). Because John III is in extra innings, so to speak, I would like to see his stress EKG and echocardiogram.
What year did John I & II die? As recent as two or three years ago people died who now survive and thrive after heart attacks and stokes if they receive prompt medical intervention. Also consider that unlike Tim Russert and the rest of us, the POTUS is surrounded by trained personnel and state of the art equipment to handle medical emergencies.
Russert had a clean report and test two weeks prior to his death, his doctor said he could have passed the same battery of tests the morning of his death. So as you say any one can have a heart attack any time and testing is not a reliable indicator.
It's rumored that BHO is a smoker,if so, smoking would place him at a higher risk for lung and heart disease than his chronological age group. Would you like to see BHO's tests as well?
Let me see, Obama dismisses her experience as a Govenor, characterises her as a small-town mayor whom he out-smarts solely on his campaigning experience, and they expect her to make nice?
Where do they find these people?
I thought Rudy was much more sarcastic. His whole setup of Obama's "present" votes in contrast to his and Palin's experience as executives was pretty sarcastic.
His take on community organizers (" what?") and his brutal suggestion that Joe Biden get his VP nomination in writing.....along with the eyerolling, gestures, laughing....it was awesome.
The VP candidate was condescending.
At long last Democrats awaken to the menace of female sarcasm.
To be clear, I thought that Palin was being sarcastic, but that it was employed appropriately against her detractors. What I take issue with is Althouse's apparent belief that calling it (correctly) sarcastic is somehow sexist. That's simply ridiculous.
> Troopergate
Do you really think "She wanted to fire her sister's loser ex-husband" is a political negative? Hint: the number of loser ex-husbands and their sympathizers is dwarfed by the number of people affected by them.
The only negative in that is that she didn't succeed.
I wonder if Biden will be fool enough to bring this up in the debate.
peter hoh said...(Relating to my comment that McCain already had the Christian and hard right locked up):
Really? I thought that both those constituencies were at risk for sitting out the election, or at least going into the election without much energy.
So you thought, until Palin was selected, the Christian and hard right was just not voting or wouldn't be "energized?"
That's rich.
The Smart Michael: Of course she was sarcastic, but so what?
The comment that Obama was going to "part the waters..." wasn't sarcastic?
Okay, how about snide?
How dare she not be a victim. She is only a woman. A woman whose place is in the home with her children!
Judging the bile emerging from Demiocrats, McCain made a good choice.
They think she was too harsh?!
I'm still waiting for a Zell Miller to take the glove off, and give Obama the duel challenge.
Obama needs to be ripped apart. Cutting jabs are fine, but to deflate an empty suit that rivals a Macy's Bullwinkle balloon, you need a few more passionate slashes.
This man is a 60s throwback, who aligned himself with radical terrorists, who are not serving life in prison only because of a technicality that let them get off scott free.
He worked his way through the sleazy Chicago machine, doing favors for felon Tony Rezko and friends.
He and his wife, despite lives of privilege and handouts and favoritism, or maybe because of it, are bitter and filled with hate for this country, especially white America, as if there were such a thing.
Yet Obama is mostly attacked by Palin on his bad proposed policies, which would be devastating to this country and to the world at large, and on his absolute lack of experience, which makes her look like an elder stateswoman by comparison.
He got off easy.
Yikes, there are too many Michaels commenting here. I previously posted at 1:44 and 2:52. If anyone wishes to respond to those comments, please address me as Michael No. 73 to avoid confusion. Thanks.
Grrrr... my feminist blood boils.
Oh, come on. Let's be honest for once: your McCain-loving, GOP blood boils.
Michael:
you're right - Obama did not say he was going to part the waters. He said that in the future we'd tell our kids this was the day that the earth began to heal and the oceans began to subside. You make think that's a distinction with a difference.
and carl, let's be honest - if a GOPer said Hillary was too snide or too sarcastic, that would be sexist, wouldn't it? Of course it would.
Troopergate woudl be suportted by voters because they like corrupt officials - how else can you explain how they relect them year after year?
all Biden has to do is wait for the investigation - that Palin is trying to move under control of her APPOINTED team.
The lack of understanding and appreciation for community organizations and their leaders is astounding. Community leaders are the backbone of this country - please thank them for your weekend, labor rights, women’s suffrage and the civil rights movement.
Clearly Obama’s message on this is getting lost. It needs to be more specific on what he accomplished. Though if that gets out there, watch out. There’s a lot of grateful folks out there who do, support and have been helped by the type of work he has done. They may just take up the cause.
Doyle, you just don't get it. The folks Palin appealed to regard your so refined sensibilities as silly and girlish. And a little fake. And most of them have never heard of a "community organizer" and could care less if they are offended. How many votes do they have anyway? She said things that many millions have wanted to say but had no voice.
Watching the inept responses from the Obama campaign and the old media (but I repeat myself), I won't be surprised to hear them say that Palin was mean because it was her time of the month.
Obama cites his experience in running a campaign as making him best qualified to be President.
He says nothing about his skills gained while being a community organizer.
It's silly.
Korla said..."I'm still waiting for a Zell Miller to take the glove off, and give Obama the duel challenge."
Zell still has to prove he still doesn't believe he's more than one person before they'll let him out.
You did know he was committed...?
Seems some here are using "community organizer" and community service interchangeaably.
The first is a paid job and Obama includes it on his resume. Tangible progress, success and positive results from that type of paid work are not easily quantifiable.
Community service otoh is generally volunteer-based and uncompensated. It is far easier to prove progress was made. I.e we painted Ten graffiti-covered walls.
Obama's problem is he did the type that is nebulous and tends to be rife with waste or are well-meaning boondoggles. Now, Obama wants the voters to trust that he did valuable work.
Doyle, you just don't get it. The folks Palin appealed to regard your so refined sensibilities as silly and girlish.
LOL. Noted!
First of all, Obama doesn't just say he's qualified because he's run his campaign.
He attended Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations.
After graduating with a B.A. from Columbia in 1983, then worked for a year at the Business International Corporation and then at the New York Public Interest Research Group.
He worked as a community organizer and served as director of the Developing Communities Project a church-based community organization comprising eight Catholic parishes.
During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000. He helped set up a job training program and a college preparatory tutoring program for the needy, and a tenants' rights organization.
And then he attended Harvard Law School where he was elected president of the Law Review, as the first black president ever.
He graduated with a Juris Doctor magna cum laude, returned to Chicago where he had worked as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley & Austin.
He also directed Illinois Project Vote from April to October 1992, a voter registration drive with a staff of 10 and 700 volunteers that achieved its goal of registering 150,000 of 400,000 unregistered African Americans in the state.
He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, and as a Lecturer for four years
He was a State Senator for seven years and has been a U.S. Senator for two.
I'm rather amazed at how many people here say they have no idea what a "community organizer" does, and how ridiculous some sound when they imply this man lacks major accomplishments in his life and doesn't stack up to Sarah Palin because she's been the mayor of a city with a population of about 9,000 and Governor for less than two years of a state that has a population comparable to Fort Worth, Texas.
*I'd like those who demean him to tell us what they've done to help America and Americans so we can compare them to what Obama has done thus far in his life.
Damn right Sara Pahlin was very strong.
Remember back a few months ago when the primaries weren't going so well for Hillary Clinton? Back when she got whupped in Iowa and the bitchy boys on MSNBC treated her harshly?
Yeah, that's when she did the teary-eyed, throat-clearing 'oh poor me' thing during an interview.
See any of that last night coming from Sarah Palin, following a few days of utterly brutal treatment directed not only at her, but also at her family. Nope, no tears, no 'I'm a victim' behavior. No 'the media is bullying me, so I demand an apology' pleading.
Two women. One whines, the other shoots and skins.
I'll take the latter when it may be necessary for an elected leader to go toe to toe with someone whose country wants to do us harm.
Nervous? Let's try to remember, uh, reality:
It's the final day of the Republican Convention, and the polls have not moved an inch in John McCain's direction.
She used... sarcasm. She knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. She was vicious.
No wait! That was Dinsdale Piranha.
Michael,
" So you thought, until Palin was selected, the Christian and hard right was just not voting or wouldn't be 'energized?' That's rich."
No, the proper term is "correct". We've had quite a number people here say exactly that, about themselves and others they know, and I've seen the same at Volokh, too.
For myself, though Palin was near the top of my list, I was voting for McCain anyway--but he certainly could have chased me away by choosing Huckabee or Graham.
> He attended Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations.
Mickey Mouse classes.
Why has he refused to release his school records?
Maybe we'd find out he had a John Kerry average. Maybe if we saw his thesis, somebody on the web would realize it was plagiarized.
I think the biggest disconnect on Palin's "sarcasm" last night is that democrats feel it was demeaning of their candidate, while republicans felt it was appropriate payback. Personally, as a republican I felt that most of Sarah's jabs were wickedly effective as rebuttals to stupid things Obama's campaign and others have said recently, however towards the end of the speech they began to get a little repetitive and tiresome.
On the other hand, Rudy's mocking of organizers, where he actually got the crowd to laugh at Obama, was outright offensive and IMO, unnecessary and counterproductive.
It is rich, however, to hear liberals complain about republicans being sarcastic. I know we're supposed to be the ones that turn the other cheek, but give me a break...
This should help with the Independants:
Georgia Republican Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, discussing vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin’s speech with reporters outside the House chamber and was asked to compare her with Michelle Obama.
“Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they’re a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they’re uppity,” Westmoreland said.
Asked to clarify that he used the word “uppity,” Westmoreland said, “Uppity, yeah.”
*P.S. To Korla, who said Obama took "Mickey Mouse" classes ad won't release his school records??
You don't graduate from Harvard Law School with a Juris Doctor magna cum laude, then teach constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years...taking "Mickey Mouse" classes.
Where did YOU graduate from?
Reality Check,
Before you start talking about "reality", please remember that polls commonly sited are averages of the last three days, so you're going to have to wait until Monday before you can make that statement.
Which is not saying you're wrong, just that we won't know for a few more days...
kirk parker had Sarah Palin at the "top of his list??"
Funny how nobody else did...until she was selected.
*Just 2 weeks ago, Karl Rove, Republican genius and architect of Bush's two campaigns, went on and on about how unqualified Florida Governor Charlie Crist was because he was only the Governor for 4 years and had no major accomplishments to his credit, and that McCain would choose someone who was ready to step in as President.
obama is up 8 points, and mccain has picked a scandal-ridden telebarbie, but yes, the dems are terrified, absolutely
A community organizer basically gets the word out to the yutes that the racisss Man is responsible for their completely unjustified self pity, making it allreet to express legitimate rage by rioting for social justice NOW!
michael (4.02) -
what they've done to help America and Americans? or what the man he's actually running against has done?
i'd say the latter is what counts.
This evening Palin speech closing was the usual «God bless America». I am puzzled. Why? Read this:
http://lindipendente.splinder.com/post/18279511/God+bless+America
aj lynch says, relating to Obama's community work; "Obama's problem is he did the type that is nebulous and tends to be rife with waste or are well-meaning boondoggles. Now, Obama wants the voters to trust that he did valuable work."
Really?
"...nebulous and tends to be rife with waste?"
Maybe you could run that comment by the people who comprise the eight Catholic parishes that made up the Developing Communities Project??
Or maybe the people associated with, and the recipients of the job training programs and or college preparatory tutoring programs for the needy, and the tenants' who were served via the rights organization??
Where do you come up with this tripe?
oh, and michael - I and I'm sure many others here can match your messiah's law school credentials.
so what?
..and lastly (for now) isn't it up to your side to produce testimonials from those your messiah has helped??
(or from anyone - other than racist preachers and unrepentant terrorists) who will attest to his past service?
ex-democrat,
The discussion of Obama versus McCain is not what my comment related to...did it?
That's another argument entirely ad I'm sure you're aware of he fact that we've been following both of them around for over two years.
Voters can make up their own minds about that, but my concern is the degradation of Obama's accomplishments.
Can we all assume you're heavily involved in "community service" work?
> "You don't graduate from Harvard Law School with a Juris Doctor magna cum laude, then teach constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years...taking "Mickey Mouse" classes."
Let's see his records. What's to hide?
I've seen lots of bad students getting special dispensation because of PC reasons. I've seen lousy teachers keep their jobs for decades. He seems not as bright as people claim, even with a teleprompter.
I've also seen a lot of people cheat their way through school, and some get elected to things they didn't earn because of liberal politics.
He says a lot of stupid, clueless things. So it doesn't really add up.
And hiding his records only makes people suspicious.
ex-democrat: When you use the term "messiah" shouldn't you be throwing the "uppity" term in there, too?
You make my point perfectly:
Referring to Obama as a messiah or uppity is not useful to any discussion or debate.
I know of no one who considers him as such, but they do like the fact that he appears to care for Americans and has a plan of action.
I also know of no one who doesn't respect McCain and his contributions to our country...many just disagree with his policies.
Your use of any such terms in describing is demeaning and just plain stupid.
Michael,
There's no doubt that Obama's academic record is impressive and that he's a tremendously talented individual, but the truth of it is that his list of accomplishments feels hollow and weak. And it's weak because in his haste to move up the ladder he's been very careful not to leave marks that could hurt him later in his career. So, yes, he was a community organizer, but his projects didn't accomplish much. Yes, he was in the Illinois legislature for 7 years, but voted present over 100 times. And, BTW, he won his post by getting his opponents disqualified in the primary. Yes, he got elected to the US Senate (a tremendous achievement), but went AWOL almost immediately to run for President. He "did" all these things, but it doesn't feel like he accomplished anything.
His only real achievement, IMO, has been his nomination to the Presidency, which admittedly, was impressive and something that 12 months ago I would have sworn was impossible. It feels like circular logic though; I'm qualified to be president because I've successfully run for president.
korla,
I have no idea why Obama's school records haven't been released, but what are you implying?
That he didn't deserve to graduate or is this just another ridiculous smokescreen topic to turn attention away from real issues that are important?
And if this kind of thing is so important to you, let me ask you this:
In 2001 Dick Cheney had an energy policy meeting at the White House and to this day, with oil over a $100 a barrel and the economy in a tailspin (market down 300+ today) and we still don't know who attended, what was discussed and what was decided.
Do you think Obama's school records are more important that??
emilio,
Run all of George W. bush's "accomplishments" before he was nominated and elected by us.
Start with all of the failed businesses.
korla,
This is my last posting today, it's appears to be a waste of time:
If you actually believe Obama "cheated" his way through school, explain how he taught constitutional law for 12 years?
Students didn't notice he didn't know anything? Didn't care?
Think about it.
Hi Ruth Anne:
I've spoken to some folks on my block and we were lucky, with mostly wind damage to trees and fences. Also, we have no power yet. That along with internet connectivity is essential for us, as we need both to be able to work, so we're still in Texas, checking on the power a few times a day.
I mentioned in another thread that the big drama for us was a dog attack on our dachshund. He's recovering and returning to his general nuisance self.
I'm impatient to get home. Along the way, we are also keeping tabs on our families in three Central La. towns, which got hit much worse than New Orleans.
The return experience is much weirder than the evacuation experience. In one of those situations that turns conservatives and liberals alike into libertarians, there is much dissatisfaction with New Orleans' officials attempts to delay our return. People can't afford to stay in hotels for days on end. It's better to be home with no electricity (as long as the water service is fine) than to be missing work and spending beaucoup dollars on lodging. So, while Nagin declared that no one would be allowed in until Thursday at 12:01 a.m, by late Tuesday, people were already lined up on the highways up to the parish line, demanding to get in. Their cars were full of kids and old folks, and running out of gas. The city had to give in and they removed the checkpoints. When the people lead...
And it turned out the wait in part was to allow a two-stage return of permit-holding businesses first -- we'd never heard anything about these "tiered permits" in our press, or at city council meetings prior to this week. Local bloggers and mainstream media are both up in arms over that detail, and I'm sure citizens of NOLA are going to demand answers. If they expect us to pack up and leave when told to, they have to let us come back home as quickly as it's safe -- conditions don't have to be ideal, just safe. I'm an adult, so let me decide if I want to be uncomfortably hot for a few days.
New Orleans continues to be an experiment in a mostly liberal population becoming more and more suspicious of government regulation. Interesting, isn't it?
Beth,
A good liberal is suspicious of government. (See, "Fathers, Founding".)
Michael,
I don't disagree with your point (although I willl mention that Bush did run Texas for six years and received reasonably good marks), but Obama's not running against Bush; he's running against McCain.
OK, I'm confused about the use of the term "sarcasm".
Sarcasm is kind of a cut-rate irony.
If she had said, "I'm sooooooo sure Barack would be the beeesssstt President!", that would be sarcasm because, you see, she wouldn't actually mean it.
What she did was say outright that he wasn't up to it, had no track record, etc. She never once used sarcasm; she was absolutely direct in calling out his lack of qualifications and her relative experience.
So, whence "sarcasm".
"Caustic" would be a better word. I mean, if you don't like the phrase "beat him like a tambourine".
Giuliani did more or less the same thing.
With (slightly) better writers, they could just turn these conventions into Friar's Roasts.
michael - you obviously haven't spent much time in law school.
(and if you have, you obviously have no clue as to what was going on there.)
Michael: Zell still has to prove he still doesn't believe he's more than one person before they'll let him out. You did know he was committed...
Cite (link), please.
blake, I know that, but people on both sides of the aisle tend to forget it.
Crowley wrote, "Her lines about Obama were brutally cutting and possibly over the top in places."
Let me copy the way many on the left obsessively look for the slightest hints of racism.
"Cutting" is an attempt to link Palin and Republicans to the atrocities visited on blacks in the darkest days of this country. Who was it who recently said about Obama, "cut his nuts off"?
kirk parker had Sarah Palin at the "top of his list??" Funny how nobody else did...until she was selected.
Ann had a post last week for us to discuss who McCain's upcoming VP pick. Sarah Palin was the overwhelming "who he should pick" favorite. Among the regulars here Simon, myself, Dust Bunny Queen, Victoria, and many others all cited her as a good choice. The only people who thought she'd be a bad choice were Cedarford (who can be relied on to oppose anything that isn't white, male, and Gentile) and Madawaskan.
Your confusion is to be expected, since you only came here to shill for Obama. But Palin has been being mentioned here off and on for a while.
Korla and others...I had to come back for this:
Speaking of Obama's school records...this should raise a few eyebrows:
From the Associated Press:
Sarah Palin attended 5 colleges in 6 years
Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin attended five colleges in six years before graduating from the University of Idaho in 1987.
Federal privacy laws prohibit the schools from disclosing her grades, and none of the schools contacted by The Associated Press could say why she transferred.
There was no indication any of them were contacted as part of the background investigation of Palin by presidential candidate John McCain's campaign.
Michael The Magnificent: It was a JOKE, Dude.
Lighten up.
BOUNCE?
CBS Poll: McCain, Obama Tied
Sept. 4, 2008
(CBS) The presidential race between Barack Obama and John McCain is now even at 42 percent, according to a new CBS News poll conducted Monday-Wednesday of this week. Twelve percent are undecided according to the poll, and one percent said they wouldn't vote.
This is in contrast to a poll conducted last weekend, where the Obama-Biden ticket led McCain-Palin by eight points, 48 percent to 40 percent.
And yet another bizarre revelation...and I'd LOVE to hear what people here would be saying if the Democrats did this:
For its "Pledge of Allegiance video" on Tuesday night, the Republican National Convention used stock footage of a staged military funeral, along with actors dressed as soldiers and sailors.
The soldiers were actors and the funeral scene was from a one-day film shoot, produced in June. No real soldiers were used during production.
Keep this in mind:
Maybe Sarah Palin needs to be reminded that Jesus Christ was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor.
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