September 1, 2008

Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol is pregnant!

Astounding! WaPo reports:
The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.

Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.

Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.

"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the Palins' statement said.

"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support," the Palins said.

The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy.

"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates," the statement concluded.

Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.
How bizarre! Is this just a coincidence or is this fact actually related to the rumors that went wild over the weekend, saying that Sarah Palin's new baby, Trig, was not her baby at all but her grandson?

IN THE COMMENTS: mcg said:
Well, I know this is shameless of me, but my first step is admitting the problem, right? My mind immediately went to Obama's comment that if his daughters "make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."
(Link for the Obama quote.)

John Lynch said:
It's an example of fitting in facts to a theory you want to believe. The Kos bloggers wanted something more bizarre, so they came up with it. Now, they'll be claiming vindication even when the primary smear, on Palin herself, isn't true.
Ben (The Tiger) said:
Did someone leak this to someone else but get the details wrong, like in a child's game?
That's the best explanation I've heard.

Sy said:
Well, Bristol was wearing an engagement ring at the announcement last week. Clearly, they were not trying to hide it. It's a private matter.
MadisonMan said:
I think the way to support a child through a pregnancy is to be there for them, not to embark on a national campaign -- sure, it's "only" 2 months -- that will shine the spotlight on the child. Anyway, that would be my reaction as a parent.
Oh, that looks like a meme. Sarah Palin must stay home with her special needs baby. Sarah Palin must stay home with her about-to-be-married, pregnant daughter. Ladies: Put your career on hold until everything in your family stops happening. I know, MM is a man and he's saying he'd stay home too, but would he? Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?

Remember when John Edwards decided to go on with his campaign after his wife got a diagnosis of inoperable cancer? Now, I think Elizabeth Edwards was probably excited about the campaign and wanted to go on with it. In that light, why are you assuming that Bristol Palin isn't excited about her mother's campaign? Unlike Elizabeth Edwards, Bristol is not facing her last days. She's just starting out -- all caught up in life. Presumably, she's intense and positive about her pro-life beliefs, her love for the baby's father, her impending wedding, and the new baby on the way.

I imagine her eager to run around with the campaign, spreading the pro-life message to young people. Why should you think she would prefer to mope around the house, feeling ashamed, absorbing maternal comforting? On the campaign trail, she will be a loved and praised pro-life heroine, and she -- and her mother -- are likely to convert others to the pro-life side, with their glamorous and very positive image. Pro-choicers beware.

ADDED: In the comments Randy quotes my "Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?" and says:
Ann, Joe Biden talks about facing that question when his wife and daughter were killed, and his sons injured, in that car accident. I can't recall anyone ever criticizing him for making the decision to remain in the US Senate and commute from Delaware to DC.

AND: The hunky boyfriend.

728 comments:

1 – 200 of 728   Newer›   Newest»
peter hoh said...

Yes, they are related. But the Kossites went overboard, and in the wrong direction.

Remember when I said there would be definitive evidence that Bristol did not give birth to Trig? This is what I was referring to.

Awesome said...

I wonder which campaign operative leaked this info to the O'blogosphere?

peter hoh said...

A careful look at the McCain photoblog was enough to convince me yesterday.

Server seems to be swamped right now.

former law student said...

Obviously impossible for Bristol to have delivered in April and be five months pregnant now.

mcg said...

Well, I know this is shameless of me, but my first step is admitting the problem, right? My mind immediately went to Obama's comment that if his daughters "make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

Simon said...

Interesting phrasing by the WaPo: Palin's "announcement [is] intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child." What a convenient way for the MSM to shine a spotlight on the filth swirling in the leftosphere without directly reporting on it and jumping into the muck themselves. And of course, the assertion that the announcement is only being made to cover up another scandal. The veneer of media neutrality has become unusually thin in the last 72 hours.

chickenlittle said...

The Kos people are thinking how to spin this in a negative way. I can also hear their evil little minds whirring.

cobdeluxe said...

Suddenly the Is-it-a-Dan-Quayle issue? turns from "Is she qualified?" to "Ah a Murphy Brown thing"

peter hoh said...

mcg: yep.

Roger J. said...

American political discourse has now been reduced to the Young and the Restless--Quoting Chief Joseph: I will fight no more forever. I now take a vow of cruel neutrality on this entire sordid mess. If this is what Presidential campaigns have come down to, I will follow Alec Baldwin and Susan Serandon into self imposed exile.

John Lynch said...

It's an example of fitting in facts to a theory you want to believe. The Kos bloggers wanted something more bizarre, so they came up with it. Now, they'll be claiming vindication even when the primary smear, on Palin herself, isn't true.

Sy said...

I hope KOS keep on with the smear. They will call her a young slut and mother not responsible. I mean how could she run a country when she can't even manage her family?

LOL that will go over well with female voters.

Fat Man said...

Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on the Trig is not Sarah's baby dingbats.

EnigmatiCore said...

"to cover up another scandal"

Cover up what scandal? Where is the scandal here?

Ben (The Tiger) said...

Did someone leak this to someone else but get the details wrong, like in a child's game?

Bizarre.

Randy said...

Peter - I surrendered principle and went to see Sullivan's reaction. After noting the daughter's pregnancy announcement, Sullivan is still demanding proof that Trig is Palin's baby. Unbelievable! Whose baby does he think it is? Willow's? Piper's? This man is insane.

Maguro said...

Amazing...you really couldn't make this stuff up. What the hell is next?

Michael said...

We'll see how long the young couple are 'left alone'. Look for the dirt on the kids within the next 72 hours.

chris said...

It seems that one of the kernals the KosKidz latched on to were rumors in Bristol's school that she was pregnant. So - that part turned out to be true. So what?

I'm hearing labels of 'white trash' and calls for Sarah to step down. It's insane. The left has lost it.


Again

Sy said...

Well, Bristol was wearing an engagement ring at the announcement last week. Clearly, they were not trying to hide it. It's a private matter.

peter hoh said...

Randy, Andy needs an editor. Jeez. What an idiot.

mcg said...

Well, Bristol was wearing an engagement ring at the announcement last week. Clearly, they were not trying to hide it. It's a private matter.

<slaps forehead>

You know, I read that somewhere in the midst of all the discussion yesterday, and it kind of bounced around in my head like "that doesn't make sense. Oh well. Must be a promise ring or something." Thanks for reminding me. Now of course it makes perfect sense.

Host with the Most said...

NOTE TO ALL ALTHOUSE COMMENTERS WHO DRANK THE "IT"S NOT SARAH PALIN"S REAL BABY" KOOL-AID:

All is forgiven.

Come home. (Yellow Ribbons Everywhere)

And Please(!) learn this lesson:
Don't ever again act like the left wingnuts don't control a very large portion of the Democrat Party and Media refer to Simon's post above).

Come back into the fold.

Pastafarian said...

This is bizarre timing. Why would Palin reveal this now? It's not as though the rumors of Trigg being her grandchild were ever really a threat, since they were false and would be easily disproven; so it couldn't be that she revealed it now to quell those rumors, as the press reported. As Simon stated, the press almost certainly claimed this motive just so they could mention this sordid rumor in a third-person sort of way, keeping their own hands clean.

Revealing this now just makes it seem somehow related to the sordid rumor, and makes it seem more scandalous than it is.

Why wouldn't she reveal it before being named the VP nominee? Or a few weeks from now, after a few weeks of basking in the present glow of newness and excitement, once that wore down, and once the Trigg rumor wound down?

I really don't understand this timing at all. Was she concerned that the Trigg rumors would harm her daughter, so she wanted to nip them in the bud?

MadisonMan said...

This is just bizarre.

I think the way to support a child through a pregnancy is to be there for them, not to embark on a national campaign -- sure, it's "only" 2 months -- that will shine the spotlight on the child. Anyway, that would be my reaction as a parent.

MC said...

Oh god, the amount of slime that girl is going to receieve will be insane. I already see leftists attacking her in newspaper article comments.

peter hoh said...

The 12:31 comment this Alaska blog was the first place I saw what has been confirmed.

twolaneflash said...

I love it when the universe conspires to annoint those who richly deserve it with pigeon droppings. Way to go leftie haters! The vacancy in your souls is showing, again.

Sy said...

KOS got nothing right except for the wedding ring. All the Bristol "with child" photos that they examined fell COMPLETELY out of the timeline.

Randy said...

Peter: Judging by his clueless reporting about the Olympics and life in China while he's lounging around Beijing, James Fallows doesn't seem to be doing much these days. Maybe he can lend a hand when not jetting between China and the US to pick up the latest electronic gadget. LOL!

peter hoh said...

pastafarian: Why announce it now? Because this looks tame in comparison to the stuff the nutroots were spewing.

DADvocate said...

Saw this on Fox News. I'm really wondering how all those tolerant, accepting lefties will react to the pregnancy of a multi-racial, 17 year old girl.

mcg said...

Revealing this now just makes it seem somehow related to the sordid rumor, and makes it seem more scandalous than it is.

The thing is, it might very well be. Fortunately, as "big" as the rumors were in the blogosphere, it was never "big" in the general public. Very little in the blogosphere is, at least not without the mainstream media's cooperation. I'll bet that the genuine MSM pregnancy story is the first that the vast majority of Americans will learn about the recent blogstorm.

Sy said...

Why announce it now? Because they have nothing to hide. Bristol wearing the wedding ring at the announcement indicated this. They considered this a private matter until that smear came out.

Matt said...

Don't Christian Conservatives generally dislike premarital sex? Especially when it is leads to a teenage daughter becoming pregnant? Seems to me if Palin were a Liberal Democrat this would be red meat for many Conservatives.

EnigmatiCore said...

"related to the sordid rumor, and makes it seem more scandalous than it is."

The rumor, and how it propagated on the left, is truly scandalous. Going to be very hard for the media to cover up for Kos and Sully by ignoring what they were trying to do.

Gahrie said...

DADvocate:

Just watch. I'm betting her decision to have her child and better yet get married will be celebrated.

Eric Muller said...

My theory is that the father is Jason Allen Alexander.

L. E. Lee said...

I am sure all good faith Democrats will wish the Palin family well. The Democrats I know do. All families face their difficulties and tribulations.

BTW, the first I even heard of the rumors about the Palin family (and the John Edwards family as well) was on the Althouse blog. If is always fun to see what contortions Ann goes to to pass on the latest rumor without appearing to be posting about the actual rumor itself!

Host with the Most said...

mcg:

Sorry, but the Palin rumor was all over the place yesterday in private discussions in evangelical churches (60 million peopled) across America.

That's more than enough - I'm very happy to say - to help turn the election. Doesn't mean it will.

But it can.

vbspurs said...

Wow! What extraordinary developments. First, I hope young Bristol takes it easy this election. Second, I hope she and the father won't be hurried into anything, although it would be great to grow for the baby to grow up with the father.

And third, NOW I begin to wonder who was behind this rumour.

The circumstances of getting the right daughter right about being pregnant (at one point), begins to remind me of a campaign dirty trick or local gossip that got picked up.

If the former, you throw a false scent to people you know will spread it without caution.

They come to the wrong conclusions, but who cares. It forces the other side to admit to something, in order to squelch harsher rumours.

Cheers,
Victoria

AJ Lynch said...

Mcg:

Obama did say "punished with a baby". I forgot about that disgusting soundbite.

Thanks for reminding me- it points out the big difference in life outlook between Obama and the Palins.

vbspurs said...

Ah, I see Awesome and Ben (The Tiger) are thinking along the same lines.

peter hoh said...

The Kosstorm happened on the weekend, and Gustav grabs the headlines. I think the Kossites get lucky -- though they deserve to be raked over the coals.

And I hope someone at the Atlantic takes Sully to the woodshed. Oh, never mind.

Sy said...

Don't Christian Conservatives generally dislike premarital sex? Especially when it is leads to a teenage daughter becoming pregnant? Seems to me if Palin were a Liberal Democrat this would be red meat for many Conservatives.

Who love teenage kids getting pregnant by accident? This things happen with liberals and conservatives. It might rise some questions about Sarah Palin being a mother. Thats about it.

mcg said...

Don't Christian Conservatives generally dislike premarital sex?

Of course.

Especially when it is leads to a teenage daughter becoming pregnant?

Not "especially", but "partly because of".

Seems to me if Palin were a Liberal Democrat this would be red meat for many Conservatives.

Well of course there are bozos on either side that will make hay of any personal failing. I'm going to be real interested to hear Dobson's take on it. But for sensible believers the real issue is how mistakes are handled. I've pointed out Obama's position on it above; now we have the Palin's. Compare and contrast.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

This family is a train wreck for the McCain campaign. A publicity nightmare. Teen pregnancies, investigations into corruption...and McCain supposedly knew about all of this before he picked Palin.

Is he fucking serious?

Harry said...

As did some folks above, I noticed the ring on Miss Palin's finger. Since it had something attached (like an engagement ring) and was not just a band (like some promise/purity rings I have seen), I figured she was engaged. But no press information about a fiance, so I was left wondering what was up for the couple seconds it occured to me to care.

Now, I'm more or less a dullard, but I noticed it right away. Where were the ace press professionals on this?

EnigmatiCore said...

"Seems to me if Palin were a Liberal Democrat this would be red meat for many Conservatives."

You think that what a 17 year old son or daughter of a candidate does should be relevant?

Anyhow, since teen pregnancy has been happening for quite some time now, you should probably be able to find an example to back up your assumption, where conservatives looked at a 17-year-old's pregnancy as red meat for attacking the parent.

Or, alternately, you might decide that you should rethink your assumptions. I know from personal experience. My wife's family is all Southern Baptist. My family, not. Our oldest is older than our marriage. One would expect her family to be supportive, but all of their churchmembers were also supportive. This did not turn me into a Southern Baptist, but it did cause me to rethink some of my stereotypes.

Host with the Most said...

Seems to me if Palin were a Liberal Democrat this would be red meat for many Conservatives.

It would be Matt, if the Palin's in that case wanted to teach the rest of us that "it's cool" and her "she doesn't need a man" in today's world". Even then, she would be applauded for keeping the baby.

Pro-life means letting the baby live, Matt. I tell my kids to avoid premarital sex because the long term consequences aren't worth it. Once a person finds themselves pregnant, then the situation has changed, and you deal with that.

I know. It happened to young me and my girlfriend (now wife of 26 years).

vbspurs said...

You know, I read that somewhere in the midst of all the discussion yesterday, and it kind of bounced around in my head like "that doesn't make sense. Oh well. Must be a promise ring or something." Thanks for reminding me. Now of course it makes perfect sense.

Oh right! I read that on one thread on Kos. At the time, I thought they were REALLY searching for any reason to confirm their suspicions (duh).

But now I'm almost certain it was part of slowly leaked gossip.

I am a very observant person. I remember thinking, "shall I mention on Althouse that Cindy McCain was wearing a long wrist brace, but was applauding vigourously with it?".

It was one of those things you notice.

But twirling a ring on a ring finger?

That's a plant.

Peter V. Bella said...

Hillary Clinton had enough baggage to sink the Titanic. Whenever it was aired apologies were mandated and received. One whole year of it. Governor Palin has been the pick for a few days and she has been smeared mercilessly with the most horrendous lies, sexism, misogyny, and puerile behavior; that is just from the mainstream media. What the whackos at KOS, DU, and MYDD did was pure evil.

I do not hear the chorus of apologies yet. I love hypocrisy in action.

vbspurs said...

Is he fucking serious?

That's awesome. We finally have our Bill Clinton.

Except we don't.

Brian said...

"candidates routinely issue medical records. So let's have them." so said Sully....

Why hasn't he pushed for Sen. Obamas records to be released then?

caplight777 said...

Blogger mcg said...

Well, I know this is shameless of me, but my first step is admitting the problem, right? My mind immediately went to Obama's comment that if his daughters "make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

I'll bet Karl Rove is behind this.

Sy said...

This family is a train wreck for the McCain campaign. A publicity nightmare. Teen pregnancies, investigations into corruption...and McCain supposedly knew about all of this before he picked Palin.

Is he fucking serious?


Are YOU serious? You think Sarah thought they could hide a 5 month teenage girl being pregnant on the campaign trail? Of course McCain knows. BRISTOL WAS WEARING A WEDDING RING AT THE ANNOUNCEMENT. They were not trying to hide it.

Peter V. Bella said...

Zachary Paul Sire said...
This family is a train wreck for the McCain campaign. A publicity nightmare. Teen pregnancies, investigations into corruption...and McCain supposedly knew about all of this before he picked Palin.

Is he fucking serious?


How soon you forget. This is nothing. All of you so called high and mighty moralists should remember the train wreck you elected president twice. A womanizer married to a venal power hungry lawyer filled with avarice and hatred. Scandals going back to who knows when.

Remember that train wreck of a family? The Clintons.

Stephen said...

Can TheMedia invade the privacy of a minor child of a White House candidate after THE ONE has declared his family off limits?

Stephen said...

Sarah Palin - First GILF.

Maxine Weiss said...

Well, at least the child won't be illegitimate, and their scrambling to give the child a name, at least.

Our great-grandparents married at 17, and they lasted forever.

There's something romantic about a young couple forging their way in life, like young pioneers.

Young Marrieds and the pioneer spirit---so American !!!

Freeman Hunt said...

Wow! Now it will be fun to watch the liberals with no understanding of evangelicals be shocked when evangelicals don't freak out about this.

Palladian said...

"This family is a train wreck for the McCain campaign. A publicity nightmare. Teen pregnancies, investigations into corruption...and McCain supposedly knew about all of this before he picked Palin.

Is he fucking serious?"

A "train wreck"? Wow, a pretty mild train wreck, mother and father together since high school, 5 kids, successful political career. What's your family like, honey? Was it a total fucking trainwreck when they found out you are a homo?

vbspurs said...

Are YOU serious?

No, he's not. He's just really young.

I bet you anything if they had announced Track was gay, ZPS would have a very different reaction.

Although probably not...

Simon said...

Pastafarian said...
"This is bizarre timing. Why would Palin reveal this now? It's not as though the rumors of Trigg being her grandchild were ever really a threat...."

Maybe because having a big bucket of that slime poured on you in full view of the nation is really unpleasent and this is the most direct route to shut down that speculation once and for all?

Not that it will. Look, we're dealing with people who believe that Bush is an idiot who planned the most elaborate conspiracy in history. You could give them the birth certificate and it wouldn't convince them. You could give them the birth video and it wouldn't convince them. And there are those who won't be convinced by it being biologically impossible. We're dealing here with people who have that dangerous combination of stupid and evil. No jury in the country would convict Todd Palin for giving them a good thumping.

chris said...
"It's insane. The left has lost it."

Another reason why the pick was the right one, although I'm sorry for Sarah having to endure it.

Stupe said...

I don't understand Maxine's obsession with "illegitimate" children.

CinnamongirlFla said...

Protein Wisdom has a fabulous take on this:

>That the Palin family — by dint of ugly rumor mongering from “progressive activists” and a compliant left-leaning press that was cynically situating itself to pretend that these rumors “needed investigating” — was all but compelled to release information about their teenage daughter, is precisely the kind of thing that drives real civil libertarians and privacy advocates crazy, especially because the information has nothing whatever to do with Governor Palin’s candidacy, but instead invades the privacy (and quite possibly effects the “choice”) of a minor.<

Must Read

AprilApple said...

Excitable Andy - still a jackass.

"Now all we need is confirmation from the obstetrician who delivered Sarah's baby, Trig."
-Andrew Sullivan (Kos Kid)

Notice Excitable Andy doesn't insist that Obama release his medical records. & Obama refuses to do so. He's a smoker.

Josh said...

I'm still trying to figure this out:

- A Kos diarist floats and then flogs relentlessly an absurd, highly offensive, and absolutely baseless cover-up theory suggesting that Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol is the true mother of Trig. If true, this theory would prove beyond a doubt that ... something.

- Part of said absurd, offensive, baseless cover-up theory involves putting up a picture of a 17-year-old girl, pointing at her waistline and saying (to paraphrase): "No way that tummy is just fat."

- Said absurd, offensive, baseless cover-up theory is presumed by some bloggers and MSM outlets as being serious enough that McCain-Palin is expected to respond to set everyone's collective minds at ease that Palin didn't do something no reasonable person would have suspected her (or anyone else) of doing.

- In order to get in front of a smear so laughably false on its face, McCain-Palin has to announce to everyone the world over that Palin's 17-year-old daughter is in fact pregnant out of wedlock, that it's a dificult time for her and her fiancee, and could you all please leave them the hell alone the way you should have in the first place?

Do I basically have that right?

rhhardin said...

I don't get the outrage. Slow news day.

Oh, there are tripwires and landmines all over, but they're all cliches.

Pregnancy, feminism, qualified woman, blah blah blah.

Instead talk about interests, and it might get somewhere.

I've known tomboys, a gf. for example who as also a pilot, but all without the obsession that males get. Is that what Palin is? I don't know what her interest is.

Most likely, it's mostly impatience with the authorities, a little reinforced by some tomboy confidence.

Other interests would be the usual, like children.

Would she be surviving the job on impatience with authorities, or something else?

In the meantime, there is soap opera for the soap opera women, who continue to pay the bills for the media.

Palladian said...

This is really going to chap Sullivan's "power glutes"! More breeders to think about!

Sullivan's a woman hater if you haven't noticed.

Diane Gallant said...

I agree with Freeman Hunt. I don't know any serious Christians who will freak out over this news, but I know some liberals who must be salivating over just that prospect.

Chip Ahoy said...

Ha ha ha ha ha X 1 million.

I love babies. They're so, so, um, so life affirming!

They're like little seeds that grow and push up out of the dirt. Except a lot better and there's no actual dirt involved.

bearbee said...

Pah! Just another in a series of cover-ups.

Trig IS Bristol's child.

Surrogate hired for in vitro to have what will be Bristol's second baby but presented as her first.

Meanwhile Bristol will be wearing pregnant suits.

We're too smart to be fooled by such tactics.

Randy said...

That's a good summation of the facts, Josh!

Freeman Hunt said...

Sullivan's a woman hater if you haven't noticed.

Have *so* noticed. One might argue that it had already happened a long time ago, but Palin seems to have driven Sullivan to lose his mind.

I understand people disagreeing with her politically, but I don't understand the hate. What is there to hate about Sarah Palin? Where does this intense hate come from?

Simon said...

Zachary Paul Sire said...
"This family is a train wreck for the McCain campaign ... Is he fucking serious?"

Are you fucking serious? Do you not understand how profoundly counterproductive the demonstrably false slime that the left is pouring on Palin is? The only thing that is being accomplished is revealing the character of the left. This is going to hurt you guys far more than it's going to hurt Palin. Ordinary Americans are watching, and if you think this hurts McCain, you're living in another world. What a weird, aberational American family it would have to be to relate to a teenage pregnancy! Unheard of!

Lisa said...

Oddly enough, I'm not bothered by her daughter being pregnant. I am sickened by the Kos Kids bull though.

Palladian said...

Victoria, the "young" excuse shouldn't work for Zachary. He's 31 years old.

Windbag said...

Oh, that looks like a meme. Sarah Palin must stay home with her special needs baby. Sarah Palin must stay home with her about-to-be-married, pregnant daughter.

Barefoot and pregnant, kitchen and the bedroom. Libs want conservative women to know their place.

DADvocate said...

Don't Christian Conservatives generally dislike premarital sex? Especially when it is leads to a teenage daughter becoming pregnant?

As a Catholic surrounded by Christian Conservatives much of my life, I think you will find that CCs aren't as condemning as you wish. In my observation they usually accept that person's weakness and try to help.

From what I read in the blogosphere, most people have no idea what Christian Conservatives are really like. When I needed help during my divorce about 10 years ago, I got more from them than from my own family members who are raving liberals.

Zaplito said...

Stephen said...

Can The Media invade the privacy of a minor child of a White House candidate after THE ONE has declared his family off limits?

Of course they can and they will.

You know, we haven't heard a thing about the legal troubles of Bloviating Joe's other not-quite-so noble-son. And of course we really shouldn't. But it's just the continual agenda driven inconsistency of the MSM that they increasingly don't even try to hide.

You know, further reflection leads me to believe that it's not so much agenda driven as life-style driven. These people haven't a clue about anything that isn't Manhatten, Wahington, DC or Hollywood/Malibu.

vbspurs said...

- Part of said absurd, offensive, baseless cover-up theory involves putting up a picture of a 17-year-old girl, pointing at her waistline and saying (to paraphrase): "No way that tummy is just fat."

Right. Except the photo that Diarist came up with was dated 2 years ago. He either didn't know, or somehow had been given/read the rumour and went in search of.

The specifics of this scandale royale over the weekend are JUST too fishy.

This was a plant...

Matt said...

Blogger EnigmatiCore & Host with the Most
I have no trouble personally with teen pregnancy. [I am pro sex education and pro-prevention]. But my point was speculative in nature. When a VP pick who we know very little about suddenly turns out to have a teenage [unmarried] daughter who is pregnant it is not necessarily the kind of news the McCain team wants to hear. I mean, in a fair open minded world who cares? I agree. But I'm taking about perceptions and double standards. A Democratic politician who faced this [in my opinion] would be very scrutinized by some Christian Conservatives. As it is she is a Republican: so it will be categorized as simply a family issue. [As it should be, yes].

peter hoh said...

Freeman, I know that evangelicals won't turn their backs on Palin because of this. And I know that many liberals -- especially the ones who coccoon themselves, need to get to know some people who don't share their views.

Simon said...

Diane Gallant said...
"I don't know any serious Christians who will freak out over this news, but I know some liberals who must be salivating over just that prospect."

Most liberals don't understand conservatives. I fancy that they have some idiotic idea that this wlil turn Christian conservatives off Palin - as I said in a comment above, however, what a weird, aberational American family it would have to be to relate to a teenage pregnancy! Unheard of!

AlphaLiberal said...

Again, the rumor emanated from all sides of the political spectrum as well as National Enquirer types and MSM.

The McCain campaign, and Ann Althouse reflexively following in line, want to blame libs for the rumor.

No, or few, liberals leaders, repeated this rumor. (Ann Althouse actually repeated the rumor more than Josh Marshall or Andrew Sullivan did.)

Much as I disagreed with raising this, the people pushing it were half right. The daughter was pregnant.

Can we now have a conversation about whether or not birth control is a good idea? Sarah Palin is opposed to birth control and conservatives are increasingly trying to stop mother people from using birth control. Good idea?

Simon said...

Palladian said...
"Victoria, the 'young' excuse shouldn't work for Zachary. He's 31 years old."

That doesn't mean he's not a child.

Simon said...

Oh, and here's Alpha, to try to salvage the muckspreader. Bravo. Truth shall not wither ye!

EnigmatiCore said...

Matt,

I think the better approach for you, to show a double standard, would be to find an example of it rather than having us imagine there is one.

Can you find an example where a Democrat's daughter got pregnant and conservatives went all-a-twitter over it being somehow germane? Pregnancies happen all the time, so surely there would be such an example you can point to.

Otherwise, it is safe to assume that you might not be understanding something about a group of people who's political and social outlook you don't share. I know at one point in time, I was.

Freeman Hunt said...

Here's the kicker that will really set off the Kos crowd: this is likely, if anything, to increase Palin's support among the evangelical set. Teenage daughter gets pregnant, decides to keep the baby, and decides to get married! For many evangelicals that is the ideal handling of a pregnancy out of wedlock (if the father is acceptable as a husband) and indicates a deep commitment to Christian doctrine. The Kos Kids are going to freak.

vbspurs said...

As a Catholic surrounded by Christian Conservatives much of my life, I think you will find that CCs aren't as condemning as you wish. In my observation they usually accept that person's weakness and try to help.

Left-wing secularists are going to get this all wrong, Freeman, you, me and others just feel this.

When they think of religious people, they think of fundamentalist (or "fundies" to use the Kos word I learnt over the weekend...) looking like this.

I'm not a fundamentalist, or even a good Christian. But let's just say that I'm not a promiscuous girl, and part of that has to do with my faith.

Perfection is not what being a Christian means.

Palladian said...

"And I know that many liberals -- especially the ones who coccoon themselves, need to get to know some people who don't share their views."

This is good advice for all rabid partisans and cocooned pod people of any political stripe.

ThreeSheets said...

Talk about double standard: Sarah Palin needs to stay home with her family or she is a bad mother, but no one seems to care if Barack Obama doesn't stay home with his kids.

C'Mon, Madison Man, comment that Barack needs to stay home with his children. And, could you explain why you think Todd Palin is such a bad parent that he can't take care of his kids while his wife works.

vbspurs said...

The Kos Kids are going to freak.

Yes...

I am reminded of something in pop culture recently. When Britney Spears' sister announced her teen pregnancy, weren't there fears the programme she was on would fail due to the outrage?

How did that turn out?

Randy said...

Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?

Ann, Joe Biden talks about facing that question when his wife and daughter were killed, and his sons injured, in that car accident. I can't recall anyone ever criticizing him for making the decision to remain in the US Senate and commute from Delaware to DC.

Freeman Hunt said...

Perfection is not what being a Christian means.

Well put. A failure to understand that is what will make certain people completely mis-predict how this is going to play.

P. Rich said...

Simon. Pace. I had a really bad poker day and was, I think, on tilt when responding sarcastically to your recent comments.

"The veneer of media neutrality has become unusually thin in the last 72 hours."

'Veneer' is a good choice of words. There is no actual neutrality any more, and its absence just becomes more and more obvious. And unfortunately Althouse rarely ventures into scary conservative territory for opposing views or anything else of substance. Today is another example:

WaPo
Volokh
Slate
Kos
CNN
Andrew Sullivan
and one outlier

The usual suspects: left, far left, radical left and the occasional insane leftist maniac.

vbspurs said...

Freeman wrote:

Have *so* noticed. One might argue that it had already happened a long time ago, but Palin seems to have driven Sullivan to lose his mind.

It strikes me that sometimes a wholesome-looking family makes some people reflexively or even subconsciously think of their own.

The comparison might bring out all kinds of demons in people, quite coincidentally.

Jason Brady said...

Wow. How big the audience going to be for her speech this week?

jdeeripper said...

Zachary Paul Sire said...This family is a train wreck for the McCain campaign. A publicity nightmare. Teen pregnancies,

Remember, your wonder boy Barack was born to a teen age mother who was impregnated out of wedlock by the 24 year old married black African Muslim father when she was only 17 years old.

You don't have a problem with that do you?

Sy said...

Its an old adage liberals, remember it.

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

It applies in this case. To believe in Christ is to believe in redemption.

AlphaLiberal said...

I see from comments that Ann's mud has stuck to Kos.

The truth is this; Ann Althouse has done more to spread the rumor than Kos (Markos) did. She has posted way more on her front page to help spread the rumor. (I, for one, first learned of it here).

There was never a story about this posted to the front page of DailyKos. The links Ann Althouse deceitfully used to falsely paint the whole community were taken from individual posts, which any member can add. And joining is easy.

Althouse's deceit here is in using the disreputable tactic of looking through comments to find a statement with which to paint a whole community.

And in this exercise she has joined the McCain choir. "Cruel neutrality", my ass. The best that can be said is she is a conservative dupe.

Tom Spaulding said...

Nice try Alpha. Breeders breed. Deal with it. Birth control is a good idea for those who want to control births. What other conversation is there to be had about it?

I'm sure the progressive devotees of the Half-Blood Prince will think of some way to turn a pregnant teen into a winner for their side, I'm only curious as to how. Your attempt fails.

Does Obama smoke around his kids?

Josh said...

Also curious about whether the smear against Palin and its collateral damage to Bristol Palin count as sexism.

At first I thought yes, since the "faked pregnancy to cover up her daughter's" charge seems like one a guy wouldn't have to face.

But then I realized that, had they said McCain himself was the mother of Trig, it would have been only slightly less plausible. So maybe male candidates have to worry about this sort of attack after all.

Whew! Glad it's not sexist! Wouldn't want to have any of THAT in this election ...

1jpb said...

I think this poses a bit of a problem for religious conservatives.

It won't matter for voting.

But, it is a situation that requires a counter. That is, religious conservatives will need to express love and acceptance at the same time they must avoid creating a situation where this premarital pregnancy is in any way shape or form seen as appealing to young folks who are already hormonally susceptible to such.

This is a task that families across America will be able to handle.

Palladian said...

Volokh is left-wing? Huh?

mcg said...

Sarah Palin is opposed to birth control

AL: Come on, now, you know better than to post an allegation like this without flimsy evidence.

Simon said...

Dalia Lithwick warned that "Palin will face brutal misogyny in the coming weeks on the trail"- wonder how she feels about the discovery that there's no misogyny more brutal than that summoned up by partisans for her own side?

Randy said...

Half-Blood Prince

Huh? What the hell does that mean???

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Picking an unknown running mate who is currently being investigated on corruption charges and who has an unwed pregnant teenage daughter...

Genius!

Is John McCain fucking serious?

North Dallas Thirty said...

Can we now have a conversation about whether or not birth control is a good idea? Sarah Palin is opposed to birth control and conservatives are increasingly trying to stop mother people from using birth control. Good idea?

Yes, let's talk about it. For example, let's talk about the fact that the abortion rate among black women, who are encouraged by white liberals such as Alpha Liberal to have sex and then conveniently abort their babies, is over twice that of white women.

Then let's talk about the leading cause of death among black women.

Does anyone think Alpha Liberal can put two and two together -- and see how his/her encouragement of women using "birth control" instead of intelligent abstinence from sex is causing them to catch and spread lethal diseases?

EnigmatiCore said...

"This is a task that families across America will be able to handle."

1jpb, this is a task that families across America have had to handle for as long as there has been America, and will likely have to handle as long as there is America.

Some will handle it well, others will handle it less well.

I wish this young family-to-be well.

vbspurs said...

I can't recall anyone ever criticizing him for making the decision to remain in the US Senate and commute from Delaware to DC.

Excellent point, Randy. And I applaud the Senator VERY MUCH for that decision.

(The great thing about being on Althouse is that others help you to find every chink in the armour of the others' argument)

North Dallas Thirty said...

Remember, your wonder boy Barack was born to a teen age mother who was impregnated out of wedlock by the 24 year old married black African Muslim father when she was only 17 years old.

Golden Snitch!

Add to that the fact that his liberal mother and father then danced off to have other kids with other people and ditched Wonder Boy with his grandparents to raise -- but of course, according to the Kos Kidz and the Obama campaign, there's nothing wrong with that.

EnigmatiCore said...

"currently being investigated on corruption charges

That 1) are pretty clearly thin-gruel (why fire the bosses' boss rather than the boss, why appoint him in the first place rather than fire the boss right at the start, etc) and 2) are of the sort that people would think "Good- I am glad she's trying to clean up the police" even if true.

"and who has an unwed pregnant teenage daughter"

Which matters, how? Seriously, how does it matter than she has an unwed 17 year-old daughter? I would love to hear your logic.

Palladian said...

"Picking an unknown running mate who is currently being investigated on corruption charges and who has an unwed pregnant teenage daughter...

Genius!

Is John McCain fucking serious?"

Yes, we heard you the first time, sweetie. Anything new to add? I know, given your high moral character, that an unwed teenage daughter must be a source of much outrage and righteous upset. Why don't you take some smelling salts and lie down on the settee, lest any more scandalous revelations give you the vapours.

vbspurs said...

Josh wrote:

Whew! Glad it's not sexist! Wouldn't want to have any of THAT in this election ...

Don't people who believe in this concept feel that it's racist if a black person is involved.

Why isn't it automatically sexist when a woman is involved?

I don't believe in such a mindset, but just sayin'.

Simon said...

P.rich, no worries. :) One note is that Volokh isn't left - but the conspirators are more the intelectual and libertarian right than the social conservative right. You're a lot more likely to find Dale and Ilya arguing over Hayek than Paul's letter to the Roman church.

Randy said...

Remember, your wonder boy Barack was born to a teen age mother who was impregnated out of wedlock by the 24 year old married black African Muslim father when she was only 17 years old.

You don't have a problem with that do you?


It certainly sounds like you do. Which part of that concerns you? The color of the father or the religion of the father?

EnigmatiCore said...

"Sarah Palin is opposed to birth control"

Source?

mrs whatsit said...

Freeman said, "I understand people disagreeing with her politically, but I don't understand the hate. What is there to hate about Sarah Palin? Where does this intense hate come from?"

I think it's fear. They're terrified of her -- not just because she's such a powerhouse of a candidate, but also because she calls into question so many of the shibboleths of liberalism. It scares them to death.

jdeeripper said...

vbspurs said...

It strikes me that sometimes a wholesome-looking family makes some people reflexively or even subconsciously think of their own.

The comparison might bring out all kinds of demons in people, quite coincidentally.


That's why I knew Mitt Romney was going to be in big trouble when I saw these photos.

I don't think you can fully appreciate the atavistic hatred these kinds of images inspire in the White liberal/left.

mcg said...

One of those pieces of evidence that, you know, religious conservatives might not fit their caricature (admittedly self-inflicted, in part):

When I, myself, became pregnant in college, my soon-to-be mother in law (a hard-core liberal Democrat who had openly encouraged me to have un-married sex with her son) expressed her “disappointment” in both of us – and immediately pushed for an abortion. My own mother (a sex-before-marriage-is-sin Catholic) immediately comforted me, affirmed her love for me and said, “There’s always room in our family for another baby.” My husband and I have been JOYFULLY married 21 years and have 4 amazing kids…. What an beautiful gift of love my mother gave me that day!

From a Hugh Hewitt fan.

Tom Spaulding said...

Randy, that means Obama is half Black and half White and treated like a Prince by his devotees. Nothing more than that, I assure you. I don't really think he is a Wizard, if that's your question.

I only wish the KosKidz were more concerned with where Papa Obama is and could voice their concerns about his parental abilities and obligations and obsesed less with who Papa Palin is.

You know, just to be fair and all that...

Simon said...

North Dallas Thirty said...
"Can we now have a conversation about whether or not birth control is a good idea? Sarah Palin is opposed to birth control..."

Not until you give some evidence for the claim that Palin is opposed to birth control, no.

Sy said...

Picking an unknown running mate who is currently being investigated on corruption charges and who has an unwed pregnant teenage daughter...

Genius!

Is John McCain fucking serious?


Actually when you think about it, it is genius. With one swoop, he covered all the woman issues from motherhood to teenage pregnancies to being a grandma, etc. Women of all strips can relate to Sarah Palin now. Brilliant!

MC said...

Let me be the first person here in all this to say she's having a baby and getting married. Which means something is required to be said:

Congratulations, Bristol Palin!

I'm sure it will be a blessing for you.

Kevin said...

Obama's belief is that a woman is punished with a baby

Palin's belief is that they are blessed by a new life.

McCain made the correct choice in choosing her!

Matt said...

EnigmatiCore
Actually I have nowhere read the left blogs making hay of this.
Atrios writes:
I hope the media largely gives Bristol Palin the privacy she should be entitled to. Her mother is the candidate, not her.

I never said there was a specific case where the Right did this to the Left.
But the interesting issue is where Palin stands on sex education. Many Republicans are opposed to sex education. They want abstinence only, which we all know does not work. If teen pregnancy is [suddenly] not an issue then why does anyone try to prevent sex education in schools? And more importantly perhaps - why is it even a news item with an exclamation point on this blog?
I'll answer that: Because teen pregnancy is an issue. Teenagers need our support in every way. But they also need education about having sex - even if they want to become pregnant.

mcg said...

I think this is Dr. James Dobson, but at the very least it's a rep from Focus on the Family:

In the 32-year history of Focus on the Family, we have offered prayer, counseling and resource assistance to tens of thousands of parents and children in the same situation the Palins find themselves in. We have always encouraged the parents to love and support their children and always advised the girls to see their pregnancies through, even though there will of course be challenges along the way. That is what the Palins are doing and they should be commended for once again not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but in living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances.

Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect. Nor does it mean that your children are perfect. But it does mean that there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord. I've been the beneficiary of that forgiveness and restoration in my own life countless times, as I'm sure the Palins have.

The media is already trying to spin this as evidence that Gov. Palin is a 'hypocrite,' but all it really means is that she and her family are human. They are in my prayers and those of millions of Americans.


h/t The Corner

dr kill said...

Rove, you magnificent bastard! I expect the McCain campaign to give us about a week to digest this incredible news, then announce that it's going to be a girl child, and the young lovers have decided to name their baby Hillary Geraldine Susan B. Anthony Palin.

This is the best election ever!

mrs whatsit said...

Alpha, your desperation is showing.

mcg said...

Bravo, Atrios!

mcg said...

Ya think Rove is the father?

Tom Spaulding said...

No, the father is...John Edwards!

AlphaLiberal said...

Nice try Alpha. Breeders breed. Deal with it. Birth control is a good idea for those who want to control births. What other conversation is there to be had about it?

For starters:
1) Whether our school systems and governments should be stopped from providing education about human reproduction and birth control options.

2) Should Pharmacists be allowed to withhold birth control medications if they are opposed to birth control.

3) And the underlying question: Should the government be used to impose a minority's religious doctrine on the majority?

Nagarajan said...

Matt,
I agree with you 100% - if Obama's daughter became pregnant, would not conservatives talk about it? Failure in parenting etc? I think, they would.

Of course liberal kids at Dkos who usually would never like any one to pry into "personal issues" have been all over the place on "Palin is a grandmom" fake story. until it became true !

Guess there are equal amounts of hypocrisy from both sides of the "culture clash."

I hate to say this but i dont see how McCain will ever recover from the Sarah Palin pick - this was even before this bombshell.

the unthinkable is abt to happen - Obama will be the next President barring any scandals from his side - the very thought sickens me.

McCain has no one but himself to blame - he knows how much the media is slanted in favor of the One and he still picked Palin - did he even vet her ? and surely enough the media now has a story line that goes "how can she do her Veep job with a downs syndrome child and a pregnant teen daughter?"

Is it sexist ? Yes - is it an unfair question to ask - No.

vbspurs said...

Genius!

Is John McCain fucking serious?


Yes, but I'm beginning to believe you're not, ZPS.

Is this all your side can do? Fabricate stories about *warming pan births, and then pounce on a kid for being pregnant?

It's not going over very well.

*Actually, it's funny to see the ancient rumour mill favourite, Warming Pan births, making a bit of a modern comeback.

The term comes from the rumour that royal ladies sometimes miscarried, and either to fool their husband, or in collusion with their husband to fool the public, they bribed a woman to switch babies with them.

This was usually a high-born noblewoman but sometimes even a servant who was pregnant at the same time.

The ruse went like this: royal woman goes into labour, whether real or pretend. The baby is born dead, or similar. They find a pregnant woman somewhere, and perform the switcheroo with a pan kept warm with coals underneath, to keep the baby alive until they rushed it to the royal "mother".

The most famous example of this rumour was James II's James, the Old Pretender.

BTW, it wasn't true. He was almost certainly his father's natural, legitimate son.

But the rumour followed him and his mother the whole of his life.

This is where the Palin story resembles it.

They accuse her of making a switcheroo with her kid.

mcg said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

"I don't think you can fully appreciate the atavistic hatred these kinds of images inspire in the White liberal/left."

I know it all too well. I used to suffer from it too, before I learned through experience and introspection that the problem was within me rather than with the families that I loathed. This kind of hatred is very common among so-called progressives who were emotionally damaged and unreconstructed. I remember seeing that picture of Romney's family with other people and one of them, a white, graduate-school educated person, said "Ugh, they're so fucking white it's disgusting". So I pulled up a picture of Obama's family and said "Ugh, they're so fucking black it's disgusting". After a stunned moment, I asked if what I said about Obama's familu sounded acceptable. They said "no". I reminded them that there was no difference between my reciprocal remark about Obama's family and their remark about Romney's family. The lesson, however, was not appreciated and not learned.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Sarah Palin asked about the pledge in a 2006 candidate questionnaire:

11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

***

She is amazing!

dr kill said...

Or even better, they have twins, and name the baby boy Billy Graham Gompers Davy Crockett Reagan Palin. How cool would that be?

Not enough Jims said...

Althouse: stop prying into other people's vaginas! How dare you!!

1jpb said...

dr kill,

And others that think this is political gold: Please take a step back.

It is important to send the message of love and support, but it is equally important to send the message of consequences. Kids are listening.

I hope that folks don't oversell the positive aspects (political or otherwise) of Bristol's baby. This conversation should, at the very least, be equally balanced with messages of abstinence and better decision making.

AlphaLiberal said...

Aaargh. Stupid blogspot.

Here is a link on Sarah Palin's opposition to birth control and reproductive education.

Both she and John McCain prefer a pro-ignorance approach to reproduction.

Tom Spaulding said...

1) Whether our school systems and governments should be stopped from providing education about human reproduction and birth control options.

Should they be stopped? Why do you think they should be allowed? Not to mention, you can't lump "human reprodction education", a biology topic, with "birth control options", a moral/personal/family topic. What teachers did you have in your schooling that were more qualified to teach you birth control than your parents? I had nuns as teachers for 8 years. Do they qualify?

2) Should Pharmacists be allowed to withhold birth control medications if they are opposed to birth control.

In a free market, I can't see otherwise.

3) And the underlying question: Should the government be used to impose a minority's religious doctrine on the majority?

What doctrine are you referring to?

Not enough Jims said...

Zachary, you idiot, the pledge was written in 1892.

Good enough for the Founding fathers?! Is that when Palin thinks the counrty was founded--1892?!

She is "amazing" indeed.

Gahrie said...

I agree with you 100% - if Obama's daughter became pregnant, would not conservatives talk about it? Failure in parenting etc? I think, they would.

Given his daughter's ages, I agree with you, and would certainly hope so.

However if his daughter was 17, was planning on keeping the baby, and getting married? I think not so much. In fact given the current state of Black inner city culture, I think the rightwing would be holding her up as a positive example.

Especially given Obama's previous comments about getting punished by a pregnancy.

AlphaLiberal said...

What Atrios said:
"I hope the media largely gives Bristol Palin the privacy she should be entitled to. Her mother is the candidate, not her."

I'm a regular reader of Atrios and, unless I missed a post, he did not spread the rumor that Palin pretended to have her daughter's baby.

But Ann Althouse did.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Actually I have nowhere read the left blogs making hay of this."

I may be remembering incorrectly, but please find where I asserted that left blogs were making hay over Bristol's confirmed pregnancy? I believe all I have done is point out that ZPS is trying to, which is easy to see since it is on this thread.

"But the interesting issue is where Palin stands on sex education. Many Republicans are opposed to sex education. They want abstinence only, which we all know does not work."

Nothing works, if the standard is eliminating teen pregnancy. There are teen pregnancies in schools that have comprehensive sex education, and there are teen pregnancies in families that emphasize abstinence only.

I would prefer government to stay out of family decisions on this. Government at any level. I think sex education should explain the biology, and leave activist stuff like abstinence-only or distributing condoms to families to do on their own.

By the way, Bristol Palin is above the age of consent in Alaska. Should her pregnancy cause us to consider the interesting issue of if the age of consent there is too low?

I think that people are trying to turn her pregnancy into a political football. Granted, since I have decided that I like Governor Palin, this appalls me. I suspect, but cannot prove, that it would have appalled me anyway.

mcg said...

Ann, I just read the update. I agree with you here. Obviously the Palins have had plenty of time, certainly more than McCain, to discuss the consequences of a VP run on their family.

For instance, I fully expect that Todd Palin is going to reduce his extra-family activity even further in order to spend more time taking care of the family. I suspect they are planning to hire additional help for Trig; indeed, they may very well have better resources to handle his needs in the DC area than in small town Alaska.

I imagine that they had to judge whether Bristol was going to be adequately cared for; indeed, maybe there is sufficient family on the father's side to take up the slack, or maybe they'll even be moving into the Naval Observatory with the Palins! (That would rock, IMO.)

The point is, the people who are best qualified to determine how best to juggle these extraordinary demands on their family are the Palins. Yes, I know there's gonna be some finger wagging and second guessing out there, but it's unfortunate. I think the majority judgement, even if they don't vote for her for other reasons, is that she is to be admired.

Simon said...

AlphaLiberal said:
"Should the government be used to impose a minority's religious doctrine on the majority?"

So many possible questions being begged at once... Here's just four: Should the government be used to impose a minority's secular doctrine on the majority? How, in a democracy, does a minority impose something on the majority? Which side is more apt to seek to do this (see Roe)? Do you not understand that there are non-religious people who are opposed to abortion (I'm pro-life and I'm an agnostic)?

vbspurs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EnigmatiCore said...

Alpha, thanks for the link. However, when I search it for "birth control" it finds no matches on the page.

I find it says she opposes contraceptives being distributed by schools. That's quite different than saying she opposes birth control.

I don't support schools distributing Bud Select. That does not mean that I oppose Bud Select.

But, somehow, I think you probably already understand the logical fallacy you are using, but will continue to argue that she opposes birth control anyway. Political points to score, integrity be damned! Now, if you can find where she tried to make illegal contraceptives, then you would have a leg to stand on.

Alex said...

There's no way to spin this as a positive. It's an absolute disaster for the McCain campaign. Now I'm 100% certain Hussein will win. This is God's wrath upon Republicans for hypocrisy.

vbspurs said...

Matt wrote:

They want abstinence only, which we all know does not work.

Yes, it does. Uganda's AIDs campaign has been successful because of the strong emphasis on abstinence.

But this goes to the heart of another matter.

Am I the only one on Althouse who was taught Sex Ed by nuns?

Was I the only one who excitedly greeted the announcement of a "film" and lowered the classroom blinds, only to be bored to death by the explanation (gonads, the hell?).

Of course, that same nun also encouraged abstinence -- not specifically, but it was implied.

But the only time I remember hearing that people were against teaching Sex Ed was when my neighbour/teacher told me the parents at her public school were. They were black Americans...

I never hear this being spoken of by anyone. It's always automatically implied that the people against Sex Ed are some kind of religious nuts.

DADvocate said...

Gahrie - So far Kos is using it as a tool to attack Sarah Palin on abstinence-only education. And, some how, he claims to know that Sarah never talked with Bristol about safe sex.

Kos: It's obvious Bristol would've been better served with a discussion about safe sex. Instead, she's now facing a shotgun wedding to the baby's father.

Kos must have some really great reliable inside sources to know what was and wasn't discussed between mother and daughter, or father and daughter.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Is this all your side can do?

Victoria, this is not "my side," and I'm not starting rumors. If you want my sincere take, I think this is all absurd. It's entertainment. And Sarah Palin obviously knew the risks of exposing herself and her family when she got into this, so I'm sure she's tough enough to withstand liberal attacks.

The the only serious part of all this is John McCain's judgment.

campy said...

The new infestation of Obamanoids pretending to be despondent McCain voters is very amusing.

Simon said...

AlphaLiberal said...
"But Ann Althouse did."

You really are among the most intellectually dishonest people I've ever encountered. Just unbelievable. You're pretty close to joining Freder on the ignore list.

Brian O'Connell said...

The reason the left thinks these attacks against Sarah Palin's family will be at all effective is because they actually believe their own bs. Hot Air had a thread on this recently, but the idea's been around for a while.

Basically, the left creates and propagandizes an absurd caricature of the right- in this case religious conservatives- portraying them as hardcore, intolerant, moralist perfectionists. No doubt a small minority of them are like that, but most people of course are not that extreme. But anyway, the left actually comes to believe that this caricature represents reality.

So then when facts like the ones about Palin's family come out, it's not that the left is scandalized at all, but they're under the impression that if they push these facts- or just rumors- that the right will be scandalized and outraged. But since the conservatives aren't quite as evil as the left believes, the left is often disappointed by the right's ho-hum reaction (and misinterprets it as rightwing hypocrisy).

We saw this in 2004 with the gratuitous mentions of Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter. I'm reminded of the Sting lyric: "Then I went off to fight some battle
That I'd invented inside my head." So that's what they're doing now.

Palladian said...

"The new infestation of Obamanoids pretending to be despondent McCain voters is very amusing."

Yes, that old Andrew Sullivan trick, when he posts an unsourced email from "a reader" that begins: I am a lifelong Republican but I am voting for Obama because....

dr kill said...

1xjb-

Hey Dog, don't put words in my mouth. I'm disgusted beyond words at all pregnancies out of wedlock, be they black, white or eskimo. This is the fucking 21st century. I love children, but there is no excuse for unplanned pregnancy. We have four kids in their 20's, and they are all still child and STD free.

A child at 17 isn't a life sentence, but the statistics aren't pretty.

I'm just reeling in amusement at the various spins I'm seeing. It's like a good college football game. And it's still early in the second quarter.

Matt said...

Palladian
I hope you realize you are talking about yourself not about the supposed left liberal stereotype. Most liberals I know look at the issues and our frustrations grow from that but it doesn't get deeply hateful toward the person and their family. Conservatives are the same way. The commentators and fools that get the headlines are the loud crazy ones who are a minority.
Echoing the post by nagarajan there are idiots on both sides. Kos and Free Republic are equally offensive. And if Obama becomes president I can guarantee you the hatred from some on the Right will be as harsh as it has been from some on the Left toward Bush. [Although Bush's approval rating shows he is disliked even by his own party].

DEMS said...

There is no such thing a private matter in politics. This is fair game to use against them and I hope they do...because the Republicans would've without a doubt done the very same thing. They are just waiting for a smoking gun like this to come use to promote their own agenda.

Harry said...

Althouse:
"On the campaign trail, [Miss Palin] will be a loved and praised pro-life heroine..."

There may be a pretty big contigent of pro-life folks who will not be so praising. Praise for continuing her pregnancy, yes. But folks who are against premarital sex will still not be overjoyed. In their eyes, this young lady did something wrong and is now doing the right thing in dealing with the consequences.

EnigmatiCore said...

"And Sarah Palin obviously knew the risks of exposing herself and her family when she got into this, so I'm sure she's tough enough to withstand liberal attacks."

Life imitates Airplane!

Shanna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.

'I am sure she is tough enough to withstand liberal attacks, so let me make some, even though I think this is absurd.'

You are in the early stages of Andrew Sullivanitis. He is your future.

vbspurs said...

For instance, I fully expect that Todd Palin is going to reduce his extra-family activity even further in order to spend more time taking care of the family.

I posted this photo on my blog last night, coming from Meghan McCain's site.

Todd Palin with Trig

I'd say the First Dude of Alaska is a first-rate dad.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Zachary, you idiot, the pledge was written in 1892.

Uh...precisely.

Who is the idiot?

madawaskan said...

Ben (The Tiger) said:
Did someone leak this to someone else but get the details wrong, like in a child's game?

Could it be Sully knew the truth but pretended to get it wrong in the most embarrassing way to Sarah Palin-in order to force the McCain campaign to respond?

Remember-the rumors sent everyone scurrying to put the daughter under the microscope-and la viola the "rumor" was set up to ferret out the truth.

Sully must be proud-his finest Machiavellian effort yet!

I really wonder if the McCain campaign should have dignified The Sullier with a response but I guess if you had to pick a day to do it

-today would be it.

{Somebody really needs to put Sullivan on suicide watch.}

Simon said...

Zachary Paul Sire said...
"Victoria, this is not "my side""

Yes it is. Every comment that I can remember you posting in the last month has been in lock step with the left.

"and I'm not starting rumors."

You're just more than happy to twist the knife once someone else has stuck it in. That's much more honorable, we can all agree.

"I'm sure she's tough enough to withstand liberal attacks."

I'm sure of it too, but that doesn't mean she should have to. Whither those staunch defenders of women from such slime, Marcotte, Valenti, Filipovich et al? Can you imagine how the feminist left would react if this was being hurled at Steph Herseth? Sell-outs.

Joan said...

Here is Palin's actual response: 3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
JB: We should not exclude abstinence-until-marriage education programs.
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.


As a parent, the phrase "explicit sex-ed programs" makes my skin crawl. I don't want my middle-schooler being taught how to put a condom on a cucumber.

Reading through Palin's replies to the questionnaire, it's easy to see why she has fired up the conservative base.

Regarding Palin's ref to the founding fathers and the pledge of allegiance: do you think she could have possibly meant that the founding fathers believed that we are a nation formed under God, not that the pledge itself was good enough for them? I know this literal-minded "gotcha!" stuff is par for the course, but give me a break.

Palladian said...

"Echoing the post by nagarajan there are idiots on both sides."

Oh I'm not denying this. But I have met many, many so-called liberals who are viscerally disgusted by happy families. I'm not saying that these people constitute a majority of Democrats, but that they tend to be the loudest people with the biggest microphones.

vbspurs said...

It's entertainment.

ZPS, what do you mean by this? What is entertainment?

That a woman was smeared with devilish rumours this weekend and it's fun to watch how she reacted?

Or that politics exists (to quote myself) for the enjoyment of the twisted?

Maxine Weiss said...

Look at all the errant children of Presidents. The Bush twins and their wild ways early on.

The Reagans had very recalitrant children: Patty smoked dope and lived in sin with Kris Kristofferson-----a much greater transgression than Bristol's out-of-wedlock pregnancy.

Ron Jr. was a ballet dancer----which was considered evil incarnate.

Yet, President Reagan was the greatest President.

Naughty children do not necessarily bad leaders make.

Zaplito said...

In our city it's those conservative Christians, Catholic and Protestant who run the crisis pregnancy centers, adoption services and do the most to care for poor families.

The notion of the cold hearted conservatives is only a reality in the mind of bi-coastal oriented liberals.

Palladian said...

"ZPS, what do you mean by this? What is entertainment?

That a woman was smeared with devilish rumours this weekend and it's fun to watch how she reacted?

Or that politics exists (to quote myself) for the enjoyment of the twisted?"

Twisted queens are often entertained by misery.

Alex said...

Can anyone tell me what's the point of sex-ed if you don't show the kids how to use a condom?

vbspurs said...

We saw this in 2004 with the gratuitous mentions of Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter. I'm reminded of the Sting lyric: "Then I went off to fight some battle
That I'd invented inside my head." So that's what they're doing now.


Wow, Brian O'Connell, I don't remember seeing on Althouse before, but if this post is anything to go on, I extend you my hearty welcome!

vbspurs said...

Can anyone tell me what's the point of sex-ed if you don't show the kids how to use a condom?

Alex, are you the foaming-at-the-mouth right-winger who most of us criticised last night, or is this a leftbot incarnation of another poster called Alex?

Visit wrath on the Republicans indeed.

KHANNNNNNN!

EnigmatiCore said...

"Can anyone tell me what's the point of sex-ed if you don't show the kids how to use a condom?"

To explain to kids what causes pregnancy? To explain to kids the biology of human sexuality?

Did you somehow imagine that to be a devilishly difficult question to answer?

Zachary Paul Sire said...

Oh yes Simon. Hang all of the Sarah Palin smears on me because I'm commenting on them on a blog. And you are complicit in the Obama attacks over the past two years, too. Anyone who identifies with a certain party's politics is therefore responsible for everything the fringes of that party does. Lameness.

Bored Boy said...

WOW - I am amazed how quickly the religious right can defend her and not once cast their normal onslaught of insults about having sex before marriage.

This thing just illustrates on point - perhaps if the wingnuts would not insist on that riduculous abstinance only education the girl might have lowered her risk of getting pregnant.

I am happy she is not having an abortion, but if she had I would not have held it against her. I find it interesting though tat the holy and pure answer is to have a 17 years get married right away. I guess an adoption would not fly.

This whole thing just illustrates the hypocracy of the social conservatives who control (and have ruined) the once great republican party. I guess this is a lot better than having one of the kids be gay.

mcg said...

Can anyone tell me what's the point of sex-ed if you don't show the kids how to use a condom?

If my fourth-grade sex ed class was any indication, it was to baffle the teachers with questions like, "what is a queef?"

Yachira said...

One ticket sees this as a blessing. The other sees it as a curse. Could the core differences between the two be any starker?

dr kill said...

The third triplet could be named Geromimo Cesar Chavez Jet Li Palin. He would be my favorite.

C'mon people, lighten up. If they say they're happy, why not believe it? I'm happy for them, and glad as hell it's not my boys or girl.

Palladian said...

"Alex, are you the foaming-at-the-mouth right-winger who most of us criticised last night, or is this a leftbot incarnation of another poster called Alex?"

Victoria, it's the same person, or at least the same blogger account. Both "Alex" names link to the same "unavailable" blogger profile number. So I don't know what happened. Maybe the medication wore off or something.

Alex said...

vbspurs said...

Can anyone tell me what's the point of sex-ed if you don't show the kids how to use a condom?

Alex, are you the foaming-at-the-mouth right-winger who most of us criticised last night, or is this a leftbot incarnation of another poster called Alex?

Visit wrath on the Republicans indeed.

KHANNNNNNN!
1:27 PM


it's the same guy, but my meds are different today. I'm just very shocked and disappointed by this. I had this image of Palin that was punctured by this news.

mcg said...

WOW - I am amazed how quickly the religious right can defend her and not once cast their normal onslaught of insults about having sex before marriage.

Uh, I don't think anyone here is suggesting Bristol didn't make a mistake. Of course she did.

EnigmatiCore said...

"Then I went off to fight some battle
That I'd invented inside my head."

Cool. We need more people throwing song lyrics willy-nilly around here. This should be a musical place. Althouse: The Musical!

As I returned across the lands I'd known
I recognized the fields where I'd once played
I had to stop in my tracks for fear
Of walking on the mines I'd laid

Think they'll ever come to a day where they might regret some of their attacks today?

mcg said...

I had this image of Palin that was punctured by this news.

Yes, I'll bet you did. Most people aren't into grandma porn.

Eric Muller said...

Ann, I wouldn't say (as you do in the title to this post) that "Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol is pregnant."

It would be more cruelly neutral to ask whether it's fair that Bristol Palin's pregnancy is being "pushed on" Sarah Palin.

vbspurs said...

Jdeeripper wrote:

That's why I knew Mitt Romney was going to be in big trouble when I saw these photos.

I know right! I thought the same thing, but I am not sure why similar photos of the Kennedys or the Bidens don't make the Left go ballistic.

I don't think you can fully appreciate the atavistic hatred these kinds of images inspire in the White liberal/left.

My God, what a post.

When I was sloughing through Kos threads last night, I kept thinking at how different Althouse posters are in both tone but also quality of writing.

Only the Prawfblog has more indepth writing, at such a fast clip as this fast-approach 200 thread.

Zachary Paul Sire said...

What's the entertainment?

The reaction, the outrage, the absurdities. All of you.

That's the entertainment.

EnigmatiCore said...

"I am amazed how quickly the religious right can defend her"

You think the religious right should be attacking a 17 year old girl?

vbspurs said...

I had this image of Palin that was punctured by this news.

What can I say. I don't believe you're serious. Sorry.

AlphaLiberal said...

joan:
As a parent, the phrase "explicit sex-ed programs" makes my skin crawl. I don't want my middle-schooler being taught how to put a condom on a cucumber.

Granted, when I went through sex ed, that was along time ago. And I always thought putting condoms on to be self-explanatory.

But explicit sex ed is just another way to say "how human sexual reproduction works." Do you also object to diagrams of male and female reproductive anatomy?

Abstinence-only doesn't work. Kids today are shown to be increasingly ignorant about babies and birth control.

Do you prefer to keep them ignorant over teaching them how things work?

Palladian said...

Muller, did your bichon frisé ever get pregnant out of wedlock?

MadisonMan said...

I know, MM is a man and he's saying he'd stay home too, but would he?

I'm not telling Sarah Palin to quit her day job and stay home. But can she actually provide any support to her child when she's in an active campaign? She says there is a warm and supportive family for her daughter. How supportive can one be on the campaign trail? A lot less supportive than if she's at home is my guess.

I guess the parallel for me would be if I were to be offered a Dean position (as if!) requiring 90% travel (HA!) just as my daughter became pregnant. That would be an easy choice.

Palladian said...

"Abstinence-only doesn't work. Kids today are shown to be increasingly ignorant about babies and birth control."

Yes, I'd never even heard of a condom when I was 16 until the mighty State, in its wisdom, told me about them in my public school.

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