Althouse: Blacks vs. gays.

September 21, 2008

Blacks vs. gays.

According to the NYT, opponents of the gay marriage ban in California are worried that black people, enthused about Barack Obama, will show up at the polls in unusually high numbers and vote the way people think black people think about homosexuality.

Well, Obama has a lock on California, so, ironically, it will be liberals who perceive an interest in suppressing the black vote.

ADDED: I am expressing no view about the generalization that black people are homophobic. I am only noting the way people of all political stripes will use black people when they find them useful. But I should note that Barack Obama has opined on the reputed homophobia of black people:

23 comments:

paul a'barge said...: Poor gays. It must be tough, being the victim of everyone, including all the other victims.

And just think. If they lived their lives quietly without shoving their lifestyle in front of the face of everyone else, they would be victims no longer.; 9/21/08, 10:57 AM
George M. Spencer said...: "Gays Vs. Blacks"

An excellent idea for a new TV show.

I would definitely watch.

Little Richard could host.

Talk about bowdlerized for white folks. Yow.; 9/21/08, 11:22 AM
Joe R. said...: Is this really a function of race or more religion? Religious people tend to be more anti-gay than non-religious people. Why focus on the ethnicity of the anti-gay people, when it really is the religious beliefs, shared by many non-blacks, that matter? It seems racist.
Also, Barack isn't making the argument in clip that black people are more homophobic than others, but that homophobia has to be addressed in the black community as part of a comprehensive solution to HIV.; 9/21/08, 11:24 AM
Kirby Olson said...: The article said that religion was not a factor.

I think this is an interesting factor.

There are only two major parties and yet there are millions and millions of people, and none of those people line up completely with the two platforms.

There are all kinds of divisions. I've long sensed that this is a major and yet hidden dimension rarely touched upon in the media.

What are the biggest and steepest divides within the Republican party?; 9/21/08, 11:28 AM
john said...: Paul said - ..... If they lived their lives quietly without shoving their lifestyle in front of the face of everyone else, they would be victims no longer.

Don't we flaunt our heterosexuality? I've been told this on occasion when I've made a similar statement. (Of course, I've learned now not to flaunt anything about me.)

The point being, most of us, straight or gay, tend to think we live our lives quietly without shoving our lifestyles into others' faces; at the same time we also tend to think of ourselves as the victims.; 9/21/08, 11:35 AM
Bissage said...: I watched the video in good faith but all I heard from Mr. Obama was a steady buzzing sound.

That’s not necessarily his fault.

I couldn't help myself from becoming obsessed with John Edwards' notetaking.

I kept trying to see if he was doodling curlicues and valentines hearts and “Johnny & Reille 4 EVAR!!!1!!”

Results?

Inconclusive!; 9/21/08, 11:49 AM
Spread Eagle said...: Don't we flaunt our heterosexuality?

Only to the extent that the norm in everything is always "flaunted".; 9/21/08, 11:54 AM
Godot said...: Shouldn't the title of this post be:
Black Heterosexuals vs. Gays?; 9/21/08, 12:04 PM
NoBorg said...: There's little evidence that the Democratic Party has suffered much because of the mismatch between their social views and the mostly socially conservative views of their most important identifiable constituency. I think the situation is analogous to that of libertarian-conservative type Republicans, an important Repub constituency that is mostly repelled by the holy rollers in their own party. It bugs them but not enough to make them vote D.; 9/21/08, 12:16 PM
Cedarford said...: Dem leaders know that what blacks think doesn't really matter as long as they turn out and vote, and get their chunk of patronage jobs for the black pols and hucksters that claim to be in charge of them. They haven't been smart enough to put their vote in play for anyone but Democrats.

That leaves organized gay groups with lots of money a pretty free hand to shove their agenda down black throats.
Just as teachers unions with lots of money have had a free hand to shove rotting schools, crappy teachers, and toleration of out-of-control black thug students down black throats. Charter schools? "Fuck you, black folk! Just don't forget we are on the same team, and we are with you in forcing affirmative action slots for blacks to make up for the educational deficiencies we help cause!"

Message to blacks from well-heeled Gays, anti-American Lefties, teachers, Clintonista Corporatists?

"Just shut up and vote Democratic, good, noble Negroes! We will do the rest."

And sadly, moving over to the Republicans is indeed getting tougher and tougher as moderates well disposed to blacks are being wiped out of the Republican Party in favor of the White Christian Taliban, endless warfare Neocons, rich people and their ball-licking toady-boys.; 9/21/08, 12:54 PM
CarmelaMotto said...: Whenever I hear Obama discuss an issue I hear two things:

1) The cadence of a black preacher which is so odd considering his upbringing. Policy is poli-ceh. etc. When he gets into his groove (for example in VA during the lipstick bit) it becomes really pronounced and I think, "phony phony phony"

2) All of his causes need more of my money.; 9/21/08, 2:15 PM
Brian said...: Because the word "homophobic" has "phobic" in it, I take it to mean "fear of gays."

But I presume it's possible to not like gays for reasons other than fear (and that's not to justify such an attitude.) If so, than the use of "homophobic" to cover all those with antipathy toward gays is sloppy.

If someone want to argue that all such antipathy is based upon fear, then OK, make the argument. But don't beg the question by packing that conclusion into the word "homophobic."; 9/21/08, 2:40 PM
vbspurs said...: Sarah Palin is talking live from Lady Lake, FL. She's in my home State, I may swoon!!

Sorry, since this is a gay thread I thought I might just act a little gay there for a second. I'm not sure how to act black, but I'm keepin' it real.

(Ooh, she's referencing golf. That's also gay); 9/21/08, 3:31 PM
blake said...: What are the biggest and steepest divides within the Republican party?

Religion, homosexuality, trade, immigration, from what I can tell.; 9/21/08, 3:46 PM
blake said...: Don't we flaunt our heterosexuality?

Boy, don't we? I wore this ostentatiously restrained three-piece suit at the last Straight Pride Parade.; 9/21/08, 3:47 PM
Roman said...: A person of any color can have a principled, perhaps relegious opposition for same sex marriage without being homophobic, anti-gay or any other labeled slur.; 9/21/08, 3:51 PM
vbspurs said...: Boy, don't we? I wore this ostentatiously restrained three-piece suit at the last Straight Pride Parade.

Ah, the Brooks Brothers float. Disgusting.; 9/21/08, 3:59 PM
Zachary Sire said...: This piece, in the LA Times, already covered the "black vote" on Prop 8, over a month ago.

Ann, you should link to the LA Times article.

Does the NY Times even have a clue what's going on? Here is a part of what the LA Times already said:

"The foregone conclusion...is that this means trouble for gay newlyweds.

Don't bet on it. Although ordinary polls report lower levels of support for same-sex marriage among blacks than among whites, views on same-sex marriage are a rapidly moving target that's tough to pin down, even for experts.

And a funny thing happened on the way to the ballot box in the last presidential election. When constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage were on 11 state ballots in November 2004, blacks in Arkansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Ohio and Oklahoma were at least one percentage point less likely than whites to vote for them, according to CNN exit polls...

Across the country, black voters repeatedly reelect African American politicians who support gay rights. The nation's two black governors have forcefully backed gay marriage -- and each has spoken movingly about accepting gay people in his own family..."; 9/21/08, 4:12 PM
former law student said...: But I should note that Barack Obama has opined on the reputed homophobia of black people:

In that clip, I heard Barack Obama talk about "our communities." I did not hear him talk about "black people."

In my experience, black people are far more tolerant of gays in their community than are white people. They might mock them as "sissies," but they never insult people by calling them a synonym for gay, like white people do. I've never heard an older black person talk about once punching a gay man in the face for hitting on him the way I've heard a white person talk about once punching a gay guy, in a bid for approval from the group.

Further, one of the most respected civil rights leaders, the one who organized the 1963 March on Washington for Dr. King, who had been one of the first Freedom Riders in 1947, was not only gay, but gay gay gay. Compared to him, Paul Lynde and Charles Nelson Reilly were as butch as John Wayne.

You can see Bayard Rustin in these two clips. Listen to him singing in the second one.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdbQKjr9Bu4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuWJB1RneGY

But does homotolerance mean black people will support same-sex marriage? I can't say.; 9/21/08, 7:51 PM
Jeff with one 'f' said...: "black people are far more tolerant of gays in their community than are white people"

Right- that's why my friend (gay, black) was disinherited by his mother when he came out of the closet.

It's also why there's a thing called being on the Down Low- having a wife and kids, but getting gay sex on the side. A big reason the HIV rate is disproportionately higher among African Americans in general and women in particular.; 9/21/08, 10:46 PM
vbspurs said...: Unfortunately so, Jeff.

There are some cultures that promote a homosocial culture. Black American society is one of them. "Bros before hos", etc...

And as we know from the Middle East, or hothouses that are male boarding schools, stuff happens when guys get together and foster an anti-female culture.; 9/22/08, 12:48 AM
Unknown said...: I didn't read anything about voter suppression. I read a lot about voter education and trying to change minds by reaching out to the community.

Blacks are very homophobic though. No doubt about it. And that's why HIV rates are so high in the black community.; 9/22/08, 9:11 AM
benn-gunn said...: A phobia is normal when something is a threat or harmful or disgusting. Such as a rattle snake or a rapist. So homo phobia fits the bill and is normal behaviour.; 6/19/11, 5:46 PM