August 31, 2008

Republicans "have a tradition of nominating fun, bantamweight cheerleaders from the West, like the previous Miss Congeniality types Dan Quayle and W."

Writes Maureen Dowd. Dan Quayle was a Senator from Indiana. I guess that looks like "the West" when you're looking from New York City. (You already know what's at that link, don't you?)

If Quayle was a "fun, bantamweight cheerleader from the West," then Obama must be too. Illinois -- for the geographically challenged -- is one notch west of Indiana. And Quayle was a first second term Senator when he was picked for VP in 1988. But And he'd been in Congress since 1976.

IN THE COMMENTS: Bissage said:
I read that Maureen Dowd piece twice but I still don’t get it. Sarah Palin can’t have it all? Only a loser rube would believe what's uncontested and be charmed by early stage Palin? Dick Cheney’s a bantamweight cheerleader? Heck, I didn’t even know there were weight classes in cheerleading. Color me confused.
Paul Zrimsek said:
Was Quayle ever considered fun? I recall that he was the Devil incarnate for a while for having the nerve to suggest that Murphy Brown was unwise to try single motherhood. Since we now learn that a woman can't combine family and career even with the aid of a husband, it may be that Quayle's been forgiven.
Freeman Hunt said:
I am getting extremely offended by this liberal meme that attractive women are nothing more than beauty queens regardless of their accomplishments. Palin has accomplished more in her short time in office than most accomplish over entire careers. But none of that matters; she's pretty, so that's all she is.

Absolute sexism.
Yeah, and it reinforces that sexist meme that feminism is a plot to help unattractive women get ahead.

Maguro said:
So being president of Harvard Law Review is now an important qualification for POTUS, particularly if the the other party's VP candidate went to the University of Idaho? LOL, good luck with that one.
To which Bissage responds:
Yeah, really. This ordinary-people-get-to-vote thing's a real bitch.

85 comments:

Dogwood said...

Quayle was elected to the Senate in 1980, so he was in his second term as a U.S. Senator, not his first.

vbspurs said...

Not just people who've landed in NYC have a fuzzy view of American geography.

Maureen Dowd, August 31 2008:

Bantamweight cheerleaders from the West, like the previous Miss Congeniality types Dan Quayle and W

Ann Althouse:

Illinois one notch farther West than Indiana.

Barack Obama, May 18 2008:

“What it says is that I’m not very well known in that part of the country,” “Sen. Clinton, I think, is much better known — not only because of her time in the White House with her husband — but also coming from a nearby state of Arkansas.”

Victoria:

Illinois borders Kentucky, but not Arkansas.

But what is going on here has less to do with fuzzy geography, than contemptuous elitism.

Elliott A said...

Legislative experience is questionable as a presidential quality predictor. I believe Ms. Dowd is seriously underestimating Sarah Barracuda. Never been a lightweight, just not on too many radar screens.

Lem said...

...cool unknown from Alaska who has never even been on “Meet the Press”

When Meet Russert called Palin schedule had her visiting the troops. Guess who she picked to go and be with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgSwMoCESF0

Ann Althouse said...

Thanks, Dogwood. Corrected.

Peter V. Bella said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

Dowd has never shot a moose, is all she's saying.

Just this morning I rescued a baby bunny. ``Leave it alone, Vicki.''

If you kill off the bunnies, soon there will be no rabbit poop in the yard to find and eat. Dogs have a very short time horizon.

sammy990099 said...

Hey! None of this. Obama is every bit as qualified as Palin for the office of Vice President.

Bissage said...

(1) Saul Steinberg was a genius but even he couldn’t anticipate that he should have added the designation “Wine Country” to the Pacific Northwest.

(2) I read that Maureen Dowd piece twice but I still don’t get it. Sarah Palin can’t have it all? Only a loser rube would believe what's uncontested and be charmed by early stage Palin? Dick Cheney’s a bantamweight cheerleader? Heck, I didn’t even know there were weight classes in cheerleading. Color me confused.

Peter V. Bella said...

Maureen Dowd aside, is the leftist media really that shallow, dishonest, unethical, and hypocritical? Even the moderate Chicago Tribune today was filled with sexist snark. Replace Palin with Clinton and there would have been a volcoanic eruption that would have destroyed the world. Talk about Princess Chelsea- what kind of a hippy dippy name is that anyway- and world war three would have erupted.

The papers are having a great time showing their total disrespect and lack of propriety. As Hillary was of limits to their sexist and critical barbs, they need a target. Each time something in poor taste was aimed at the Chosen One, apologies were mandated- ask Chris Matthews and others. Worse, apologies were given.

This is horrendous teen age behavior one expects from the KOS kids and MYDD; over medicated children, not so called responsible journalists. They have nothing to attack Palin on so they go for her gender and her kids names. What is worse- many of the attacks are coming from women. So much for feminist solidarity. Are they jealous over a woman who actually worked hard and really earned everything.

I wish women would rise up this week and say "enough"! Of course they won't. Hillary is a sainted individual. All Sarah Palin ever did was work hard for every thing she has; a true feminist. She is every woman. Maybe that is why they do not like her.

Outis said...

Maybe Maureen's just been reading old books. I'm currently plowing throuigh Grant's Personal Memoirs. When he was a boy Ohio WAS the West, and Indiana even moreso. Maybe the problem isn't that her perspective is too limited, maybe it's too broad.

vbspurs said...

Talk about Princess Chelsea- what kind of a hippy dippy name is that anyway-

The same kind of hippy dippy names Track, Trig, Willow, Piper and Bristol are? ;)

chickenlittle said...

I don't miss reading her at all Sunday mornings. But if I'm so inclined, at least I know where I can get it free.

Thanks Ann.

vbspurs said...

Ah no! I'm wrong.

Palin is post-hippy dippy.

Unlike River Phoenix' family, she would never have joined The Family commune.

She just happily communed with nature and her family in Alaska.

Oxbay said...

Maureen Dowd? Isn't she the woman who has worked under Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, Jr. in many different positions? Many people call him Pinch as a take off after his namesake's father's nickname Punch. Those who know him best refer to him as Punk. It's a better fit. What does Maureen call him? No one can come between them to find out.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Was Quayle ever considered fun? I recall that he was the Devil incarnate for a while for having the nerve to suggest that Murphy Brown was unwise to try single motherhood. Since we now learn that a woman can't combine family and career even with the aid of a husband, it may be that Quayle's been forgiven.

Dogwood said...

...is the leftist media really that shallow, dishonest, unethical, and hypocritical?

Does this question even need to be answered?

Didn't think so.

AllenS said...

Over the years, I've noticed that lots of women are extremely jealous of other women who have accomplished something on their own. What a miserable woman Maurine Dowd must be. No wonder she can't find a date.

Lem said...

..a cute, cool unknown from Alaska who has never even been on “Meet the Press”

People of the "Zabar's zeitgeist" find it almost constitutionally impossible to acknowledge the other side "did the right thing."

Roger L Simon

Freeman Hunt said...

I am getting extremely offended by this liberal meme that attractive women are nothing more than beauty queens regardless of their accomplishments. Palin has accomplished more in her short time in office than most accomplish over entire careers. But none of that matters; she's pretty, so that's all she is.

Absolute sexism.

downtownlad said...

Except Obama is a hundred times smarter than Quayle.

Obama, let's not forget, was editor of the Harvard Law Review, which probably means he's more intelligent than 99% of the other members of Congress.

But according to Ann - runner up in Miss Alaska and editor of the Harvard Law Review = same thing. They both count for nothing. Ann thinks its only the number of years in government that matters.

But we shouldn't be surprised, should we? Ann was one of Harriet Miers' biggest backers, until it became embarrassing to be a supporter publicly.

Zeb Quinn said...

"It begins, of course, with a cute, cool unknown from Alaska who has never even been on “Meet the Press” triumphing over a cute, cool unknowable from Hawaii who has been on “Meet the Press” a lot."

What she's missing is that's an indictment of Meet the Press.

EnigmatiCore said...

North Carolina is west of NYC, too.

And John Edwards, a defeated one-term Senator with no foreign policy experience and no other government experience and no executive experience was deemed just peachy by all Democrats and most of the media in 2004. And he was most certainly a bantamweight or lower, primped like a beauty queen going for Miss Congeniality, but I guess he falls short in the 'fun' category (excepting to Ms. Hunter, that is).

vbspurs said...

Amen, Freeman.

Maguro said...

So being president of Harvard Law Review is now an important qualification for POTUS, particularly if the the other party's VP candidate went to the University of Idaho? LOL, good luck with that one.

Maybe the fact that bantamweights Quayle and W won their elections over intellectual giants Bentsen, Gore and Kerry is making MoDo nervous.

Bissage said...

Yeah, really. This ordinary-people-get-to-vote thing's a real bitch.

vbspurs said...

Maguro, there is another dimension to the truth you wrote.

Americans don't like intellectual leaders for the same reason Brits don't like them either.

Thinking too deeply about a topic makes for swollen heads, and lack of principled decisions.

Principled decisions are the opposite of overthought nuances, which stymie conviction and look weak to one's enemies.

Being educated is different from being an elitist egghead, which Obama projects.

rhhardin said...

that's all that she is

Pioneer women were no pushovers.

Maybe she can bring no-pushover to the Washington culture.

She's chiefly unusual in there not being many pioneer lifestyles.

The only frontier is the frontier of the cult of feminism.

Males were interested in pioneer women too, by the way, but not by way of TV.

carly said...

I was only four years old when Quayle ran with Bush so I can't really comment on how it "felt" then. Also not sure how much of that dude's "cluelessness" was real and how much was media spin.... But here's my reaction to all the ranting about how the Palin pick is like the Quayle one and how "disastrous" that was for the Bush/Quayle ticket is:

Um, didn't Bush/Quayle WIN?

sashal said...

I feel sorry for your students in Madison.
Professor of law?
Shame and sad fact that our education is getting worse and worse....

save_the_rustbelt said...

People on the east coast, especially those in the media and government, think there is nothing between Philadelphia and the California border.

And speaking of Obama, after a year of bad mouthing the Big 3 automakers, he is about to run an ad in Michigan promising up to $50B in loans to save the Big 3. Apparently he didn't talk to Pelosi.

EnigmatiCore said...

sashal,

Nice, on-topic, post.

By chance, would you happen to be left-of-center? I only ask because it seems that nearly all of the anti-Althousians who grace us with their presence repeatedly and repetitively seem to be on the left fringes of society.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Freeman Hunt said...

Sashal, what is the deal with you and your ilk of first time lefty commenters? Invariably you breeze by and drop some personal insult with reference to Althouse's job. With all the carping you guys do about your superior acumen, would it kill you to present an argument? Display some intellectual chops if you've got them!

john said...

DTL said -

Ann was one of Harriet Miers' biggest backers, until it became embarrassing to be a supporter publicly.

I must have missed that one. Citation please?

Roger J. said...

Enigmatic--well said--So what we have is the liberal establishment coming down on Gov Palin because--um--because? mother? down syndrome child? handles a rifle? is concerned with ethics? is devout? Yeah, my liberal douchebags--thats the ticket that is going to ge Obama Biden elected--just keep up the attacks. if there was ever an example of being out of touch this is the magic moment--I am SO looking forward to November.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Keep it up Ms. Dowd and all the rest of you supercilious elitist snobs. Keep beating the drum that Palin is inexperienced. All that does is bounce off of her and stick to Obama (like PeeWee Herman. She's rubber...he's glue) The more you whine about her supposed inexperience the more it highlights his lack of qualifications. She is not running for President but is applying for the under-study position.

Please do! Keep on denigrating her as a woman because she happens to be attractive so she must be an airhead bimbo. You tried the reverse on Hillary; highlighting all her unattractive qualities, made fun of her clothing and body and voice. All that did was to seriously piss off a bunch of women.

Be critical of her family and how she has more than the acceptable number of children that have been agreed upon by the urban elite. After all, no one other than farm animals would have more than one or two inconvenient children. Especially, please make fun of her and her family. Be critical of her irresponsibility for not murdering her unborn child because he happens to have a genetic abnormality. How inconvenient, a Down's Syndrome child! That'll endear you and your candidate to the relgious people in the US. You know. All those of us who cling to our guns and religion.

Speaking of guns.....by all means, do stress what kind of ignorant goobers she, her family and the people who like the outdoors and sports must be. She shoots a gun....OMG what a low life cracker.

Keep it up. You are not helping your cause. But....please do....keep up.

rhhardin said...

I don't think the teaching of law was where education was supposed to occur.

I'd suggest math in high school.

And Latin too, except the kids won't get anything out of it for years and years, when etymology becomes intuitive as a result.

I'm trying to think of other courses that helped but am coming up blank.

Bolivia and tin.

1jpb said...

Freemen,

But, of course, it's OK for Rush to call her a babe? That's different--he supports her.

PS: She was a beauty queen. This is a notable accomplishment on her resume. She competed at multiple levels, obviously she was very focused on and dedicated to this challenge. And folks can get college money from these things, of course they can also be exceptionally smart and study hard to get academic scholarships, either way they end up in the same place. Therefore beauty queen = academic achievement. See, I can think like a Palin supporter.

I see a pattern. Wife #1 (prior to car wreck diminishing attractiveness,) wife #2, VP.

We are learning about McCain's wisdom and judgment, or lack there of. We are learning how McCain feels about women. (Although, previous comments about HRC, Chelsea, and his wife have given us hints. Cheating on and dumping wife #1 was a clue. And, his campaign's assertion that Palin will learn on the job at his "feet" is another clue. These occurrences are far more meaningful than saying "sweetie" and "you're likable enough, no doubt about it.")

Here's a joking, not serious, video which I don't consider meaningful in evaluating this situation. With that disclaimer; it is funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s&eurl=http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SARAH_PALIN__Vice_President_Nominee/Entries/2008/8/30_McCains_Brain%3A_The_Truth_Behind_hi

Maguro said...

PS: She was a beauty queen. This is a notable accomplishment on her resume.

And what are the notable accomplishments on Obama's resume? Besides Harvard Law Review, MoDo's already covered that one.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

And, his campaign's assertion that Palin will learn on the job at his "feet" is another clue

Keep it up. :-) Obviously in your itty bitty mind, no attractive woman could possibly be qualified or intelligent enough to get a job without using sex. This will play very well with millions of professional women across the country. Feminists really like this line of attack.

Freeman Hunt said...

But, of course, it's OK for Rush to call her a babe? That's different--he supports her.

Hello, reading comprehension, where have you gone? I didn't express offense that people would call her attractive; I expressed insult that people would call her only attractive and nothing more. You made the very same error in your comment when you repeated the absurd meme that Palin's only accomplishment is being a beauty queen. I suppose I should thank you for proving my point.

rhhardin said...

Babe is a big qualification with men. Women don't acknowledge how much they depend on it in life.

Low male standards mean that every woman has a chance with men, being the chief one, and the evolutionary reason for it.

Women depend on it because, whatever the theory is today, you can't build the world with just women's interests.

Unless you get women not to follow their interests, which may not be the goal intended.

They can do it, but drop out of the plan at pretty much 100%.

Quayle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Peter V. Bella said...

downtownlad said...
Except Obama is a hundred times smarter than Quayle.

Obama, let's not forget, was editor of the Harvard Law Review, which probably means he's more intelligent than 99% of the other members of Congress.



And being editor of the Harvard Law review qualifies a person for what? It is nothing more than a resume enhancement in the legal world. It is meaningless everywhere else, just like the over rated Harvard education.

As to intelligence, please prove he is intelligent? What has Obama done to demonstrate his intelligence, what are his lists of accomplishments? Or are you one of those ubiquitous supercilious elitists who confuse intelligence with education?

MadisonMan said...

What has Obama done to demonstrate his intelligence,

I think knocking Hillary! out and taking the inevitable nomination from her shows a certain amount of intelligence.

ubiquitous supercilious elitists

Big words! I think my cilia does an excellent job removing mucus from my lungs, but I don't know that I'd call it supercilious.

1jpb said...

DBQ,

I assume that folks are following things such that every excruciating detail isn't needed. Obviously you are a special case. Here is the quote:

"She's going to learn national security at the foot of the master for the next four years, and most doctors think that he'll be around at least that long," said Charlie Black, one of Mr. McCain's top advisers

They are acknowledging that she is not prepared to be POTUS. Their justification for this unprecedented dereliction of duty is a quip stating that they think McCain is likely to live.

And the rest of you are going nuts as you attempt to say the beauty queen experience cannot be discussed. It was something she was dedicated to. She worked hard at this. Of course it can and should be discussed.

By the way, McCain mentioned that she was a star point guard in high school when he ran through her accomplishments at the announcement. How can you say that high school basketball is relevant, but talking about her beauty queen accomplishments is unacceptable? It's as if Palin's supporters are ashamed of her beauty queen accomplishments, this really hits a nerve with many of you.

EnigmatiCore said...

"I think knocking Hillary! out and taking the inevitable nomination from her shows a certain amount of intelligence."

Wouldn't one then be able to argue that beating Gore showed a certain amount of intelligence? Yet Bush is derided as an idiot, all the time.

I think Obama is pretty smart. I also think he is not nearly as smart as he seems to think he is, and absolutely not as smart as some of his followers believe him to be.

What, exactly, has Obama accomplished? As best I can tell, he has accomplished becoming editor of the Harvard Law Review without having any published writings of note, co-sponsored some legislation (which anyone in a legislature can do), and has succeeded in attracting votes sufficient to win elections in populations dominated by very liberal people (Chicago, Democrat primaries, and caucuses).

Oh, and he's given a few speeches.

I am underwhelmed. Palin, who admittedly is less experienced than most VP selections, easily has more accomplishments than Obama.

Meade said...

Go-go boots? Those aren't go-go boots.

Freeman Hunt said...

And the rest of you are going nuts as you attempt to say the beauty queen experience cannot be discussed.

Who has said that? I'll help you out: no one.

People have objected to the assertion that Palin is only a beauty queen and nothing more.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Forget it Freeman, 1jpb is a waste of time.

They are acknowledging that she is not prepared to be POTUS

I believe that someone recently, who actually held the job of POTUS for about 8 years, said words to the effect that no one is ready to be President. Hmmmmm.... I wonder who that could have been.

Keep it up.

Buford Gooch said...

The problem isn't that people bring up the "beauty queen" piece, it's that they pretend that there is nothing else. It's the same as calling her a "small town mayor" and ignoring the fact that she is governor. Childish, at best.

tdocer said...

Obama gave serious consideration to putting a bantamweight cheerleader from the East, Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia, on his ticket. That's right, the same Gov. Kaine who thinks Virginia is next to Delaware...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-mB3Wjuqs

Guess it's a good thing that Obama so badly botched his initial reactions to the Russia/Georgia debacle that he had to choose Biden to give his ticket some foreign policy gravitas. Think of the embarrassment otherwise.

Boggles the mind, it does.

Fen said...

Maureen Dowd? Isn't she the woman who has worked under Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, Jr. in many different positions?

Yes. Maureen is the one who publicly lamented her inability to "land" a man, then blamed it on everyone else. I think she's jealous - Palin took a different "feminist" path and has had more success and accomplishment than Dowd. But isn't it ironic to watch the "feminists" bash Palin as a mere beauty queen/cheerleader?

Freeman Hunt: Sashal, what is the deal with you and your ilk of first time lefty commenters? Invariably you breeze by and drop some personal insult with reference to Althouse's job. With all the carping you guys do about your superior acumen, would it kill you to present an argument?

That is the Left's argument. Have pity, its all they can muster.

And congrats on the instalaunche. Good points, worth the read. Nicely done.

Fen said...

Pravda said: They are acknowledging that she is not prepared to be POTUS. Their justification for this unprecedented dereliction of duty

Not unprecedented. In 2008 the Dem party nominated for President a man who's not prepated to be POTUS.

Fen said...

Pravda: By the way, McCain mentioned that she was a star point guard in high school when he ran through her accomplishments at the announcement.

BTW, your assertion a few threads down that McCain only met with her once is a lie. Carry on with your little propaganda effort.

Randy said...

You may be right, 1jpb, that Sarah Palin is about as prepared to be President of the United States as Barack Obama is. The important difference is that Obama is asking us to make a leap of faith and elect him President of the United States while Palin is asking us to make a leap of faith and elect her Vice President of the United States. You apparently fail to understand the difference. Most Americans do, however.

By all means, keep harping on this theme of yours. I can see the commercials now: While Barack Obama campaigned, Sarah Palin governed. While Barack Obama was talking change, Sarah Palin was making it happen. While Barack Obama talked about overhauling bureaucracy, Sarah Palin was doing it.

BTW, if you want to talk about her being a beauty queen 25 years ago as if it was yesterday, go right ahead. I'm sure the other side will happily talk about your candidate blowing coke as if it was yesterday in response.

As the campaign unfolds, we shall soon find out if Sarah Palin is up to the job. Although I probably disagree with many of her policy positions, I imagine she is.

somefeller said...

I am underwhelmed. Palin, who admittedly is less experienced than most VP selections, easily has more accomplishments than Obama.

And what are those accomplishments? From what I can see, she had no accomplishments of any note before getting elected Governor of Alaska, and not a whole lot after that other than being McCain's PC PR pick for VP. I'm sure she's a very nice person, but being mayor of a tiny village in Alaska isn't that much of an accomplishment, and otherwise all she did before that was pretty unexceptional.

Let's put it this way, since the Obama/Palin comparisons are being made. If you were working at a major corporation, law firm or governmental organization and in charge hiring someone to work for that entity, and you had two candidates in front of you, Obama before he was elected to the US Senate, and Palin before she was elected to the Governorship of Alaska, which candidate would be more impressive and a more likely hire? Obviously, it would depend somewhat on the job at hand, but is anyone seriously going to claim that Palin has a more distinguished background than Obama? Give me a break.

Freeman Hunt said...

somefeller, how about her incredible progress at exposing and eliminating corruption in Alaska:

But Palin uncovered Republican corruption in the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, which she had been appointed to lead. She reported the violations of ethical regulations by her co-commissioner (who also happened to be the Republican Party state chairman). Barred by state law from going public with her charges, she quit and revealed her accusations. She was vindicated when her co-commissioner agreed to pay a $12,000 fine for breaking the state ethics law.

Then, in true McCain style, she took on the state attorney general over his corruption and forced him to resign. Finally, she challenged Gov. Murkowski himself in a primary and won 51 percent of the vote in a three-way contest. Since then, she has line-item-vetoed huge parts of the state budget that she found wasteful and has cleaned house from top to bottom.


These are huge accomplishments. While Obama was sitting around as a cog in the Chicago machine, Palin was actively and successfully fighting that style of politics.

Also, it seems a bit disingenuous to say, "Now who would you hire if you left out the part about Palin being governor?" Why would you leave that out?

Freeman Hunt said...

I should point out that even if you ignored her governorship, I would still hire Palin. Obama has held positions but doesn't seem to have any accomplishments of note to show for them. By contrast, Palin has accomplished much.

Maguro said...

Still waiting for someone to list Obama's awesome accomplishments that put him head and shoulders above the other party's VP candidate. So far I have:

1) President of Harvard Law Review
2) Wrote several books about himself
3) Got a good deal on his house
4) United the often-fractious celebrity-American community behind him
5) Sent a tingle up Chris Matthews's leg

Did I miss anything?

1jpb said...

DBQ,

I think that the McCain campaign would have been better served by picking someone who could take charge without four years of foot monitoring.

But, you think that it is peachy for a campaign to say their VP still needs years of training. And, your justification is WJC.

OK. Got it.

Randy,

BHO was right on the need to focus on Afghanistan.
BHO was right about not letting terrorists escape to the ungoverned parts of Pakistan.
BHO was right about a time table in Iraq, as Bush has now realized.
BHOrealizes that millions of Iraqis have migrated into ethnically separate areas, BHO realizes that the "awakening" came before the surge, BHO realizes that the Iraqi government has strong and growing ties to Iran. These three factors are the framework of Iraq's future, good or bad.

Without Saddam these factors were totally predictable and inevitable: ethnic groups separate, Sunnis get tired of being abused and killed by outside terrorists, Shia get close to Iran. The end game is what it is, surge or not. The natural equilibrium and balance of power will eventually come to pass, how many lives and how much money should we spend delaying the inevitable?

Most importantly of all:
BHO was right about this war. He said that the war was unwise, because the case for WMD had not been made. He predicted that Saddam would be easily toppled but the aftermath would be a mess. In contrast McCain was suggesting an Iraq attack shortly after 9-11 regardless of Saddam's ties to 9-11.

Where does Palin stand? Do you Palin supporters realize that it is idiotic to say that she should be a heart beat away from POTUS without knowing her views, wisdom, and judgment regarding the CIC position.

Randy said...

somefeller, I was going to give you a serious response but I'm not sure you really want one as it sounds like an Ivy League degree trumps all for you. I wonder if you will acknowledge that someone who is a successful part-time mayor of a small village has demonstrated management experience. Palin and her husband also operated a small business. I imagine it was part-time. That shows initiative and requires discipline. Freeman Hunt covers the defining moment of Palin's career before being elected governor.

Barack Obama was a part-time legislator and a part-time law professor during that time. Obama wrote no significant legislation while in office although he did sign on as co-sponsor to over 700 legislative items. That sounds a bit like he was more of a follower than a leader, and had the potential spread himself too thin. Confirmation of that lack of attention to detail was made by the embarrassing revelation that he merely voted "present" on over 100 pieces of his own co-sponsored legislation. While a lecturer at the University of Chicago, Obama published no papers. He was however, considered a good teacher and well-liked by his students. Judging them by their records before they became Senator and Governor, it looks a lot like Obama was in something of a rut for about 8 years while Palin was gaining experience in new ways.

somefeller said...

Also, it seems a bit disingenuous to say, "Now who would you hire if you left out the part about Palin being governor?" Why would you leave that out?

I left that out and I left out Obama's election to the Senate so as to eliminate the tiresome "what's better, being Governor of Alaska or Senator from Illinois?" argument from coming into the discussion. In other words, to set up a control, namely by removing the most recent office that both have held to equalize the discussion as much as possible. If I was being disingenuous, I wouldn't have removed Obama's election to and service in the Senate from the discussion, so you got it wrong on that score.

And while the examples you cite are good, they are pretty small beer. It's interesting that a lot of people at home in Alaska, from the local papers to other GOP officeholders, aren't quite so impressed with Palin.

somefeller said...

Randy, I don't think an Ivy League degree trumps all, but I also don't think it's irrelevant or a negative, which a lot of people do here. (A sidenote - we always say that it's important for kids to stay in school and get the best education they can, especially minority kids, but when one does so and moves up the food chain like Obama, he gets attacked as an elitist and not "authentic" like Palin. Interesting, that.)

I would say that being mayor of a tiny town and a small business, while good things, aren't particularly exceptional. Did she run her business or town well? I haven't heard much on that score, and what I have heard hasn't been good. In any case, that's really small beer. It also provides no evidence of having thought seriously about anything other than local issues, while being Harvard Law Review editor and a lecturer at the University of Chicago tends to show that Obama isn't a stranger to thinking seriously about things other than where the fish are from day to day.

Freeman Hunt said...

In other words, to set up a control, namely by removing the most recent office that both have held to equalize the discussion as much as possible.

It's a false equalization though. She was a governor, and he was a senator. There's no reason not to take those positions into account, and the argument over which position is more relevant to the job being sought is a valid one.

I'll have to disagree with you that the examples are "small beer." Even if they are, where is Obama's "small beer?"

As for the opinion of her in Alaska, I believe her approval rating leaves little to be desired.

Jon Stueve said...

Dan Quayle: 1 for 2
W: 2 for 2

The Western Cheerleaders have a .750 winning percentage.

That's pretty darn good. Better than

Ferraro: 0 for 1
Edwards: 0 for 1

Losers.

Freeman Hunt said...

Also, I cannot agree with this:

being Harvard Law Review editor and a lecturer at the University of Chicago tends to show that Obama isn't a stranger to thinking seriously about things

The virtue of these positions does not bear any indication of the quality of that serious thinking. I've had enough professors to know that. :)

TRundgren said...

Oh.my.God.

The east coast liberal elite has know clue how to deal with an American original like Palin.

Everything they despise she represents
in a sexy, modern, liberated female package.

This is going to be utterly delicious.

mcg said...

Here's the reluctant beauty queen herself talking about it in a Newsweek interview. Favorite line (paraphrased): "Can't you say 'former commercial fisherman' instead?"

She's sitting next to Gov. Napolitano of Arizona, BTW, who, let's be honest, was not a beauty queen. But they're still both good governors.

somefeller said...

Freeman, I've gotta run, but here are two links to discussions of Obama's legislative accomplishments. It's worth pointing out that it's hard to get much done with regard to decent progressive reform when the GOP runs the Senate and George W. Bush is in the White House, so alas many of the items Obama promoted didn't get signed into law. But it shows he has been involved in issues that are a lot more serious than what Palin has been involved with. And while I'll agree that there are more than a few people on university faculties that aren't people you'd want in charge of much, Obama is someone that in any non-political circumstance would be considered to be a hell of an impressive person. His conservative classmates at Harvard and conservative intellectuals at U of C would (and have) vouched for that.

1jpb said...

mcg,

Good clip. Is it elitist to note that she doesn't know what ironic means?

mcg said...

No. After all, she probably learned it from Alanis Morissette.

Randy said...

somefeller, an Ivy League degree is rarely irrelevant. Once a person has it and the years pass, however, what they do after that is of greater importance. I think you under-rate the qualities necessary to be the mayor of a small town. There is little impersonal bureaucracy to fall back on or hide behind after all.

The only people who would be interested in someone having been editor of a law review while in college are other lawyers and perhaps the publishing industry. As such, I strongly believe that is irrelevant to the question you asked.

EnigmatiCore said...

"And what are those accomplishments? From what I can see, she had no accomplishments of any note before getting elected Governor of Alaska,"

Somefeller, sure thing.

She resigned from her position as Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, in protest of ethical and legal violations and conflicts of interest by Alaska Republican leaders. She then proceeded to take on this establishment and succeed in replacing them with herself and her appointees.

She's passed a landmark ethics reform bill in Alaska. She's rid the Board of Agriculture and Conservation of those having conflicts of interest. She's used her veto to cut spending. She looked at the state Constitution and enacted domestic partnership benefits, despite her personal qualms with gay marriage (and then tried to amend the constitution, which is the proper way to handle things, rather than simply ignoring the constitution). She campaigned against a sleazy incumbent GOP Representative.

What's Obama done?

David said...

I'm not a big Mo Dowd fan, but this column was not meant to be taken seriously. She was having fun with stereotypes, describing a fantasy chick flick. I thought it was actually kind of cute, in a Dowdish way.

Is Maureen Dowd overcompensating for the fact that she has the same last name as Mamie Eisenhower?

Richard Fagin said...

"Maureen Dowd aside, is the leftist media really that shallow, dishonest, unethical, and hypocritical?"

Is the Pope Catholic?

Richard Fagin said...

I should have mentioned those other bantamweight cheerleaders from the West, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Elizbeth Dole, Wendy Gramm and Nancy Landon Kassebaum Baker. Oh, yeah, and Priscilla Owen, whose autograph hangs on my wall with that of Al Gonzales and 7other Texas Supreme Court justices.

Remind me again, please, just what public office Maureen Dowd was elected to.

Der Hahn said...

1peanutbutternjelly, that laundry list of yours, where it isn't flat out wrong, is just an example of His Articulateness exhibiting 20/20 hindsight.

He ain't gonna get much chance to do that when he's the one taking the text message at 3am instead of sending it.

And since you want to discuss the foreign policy views of the VP candidates, how about starting with Joe Biden's post 9-11 suggestion we send Iran a $200 million dollar bribe?

Kirk Parker said...

Freeman,

You're just saying that because you're good looking.

(j/k! :-) About the "just saying" part, in case it's not obvious.)

William said...

Mcg: Thanks for posting that video. She climbed the ladder that was available to her. Winning a beauty contest is as smart as working p/t at Dairy Queen to raise money for school....A woman who chooses to have a developmentally challenged baby rather than violate her beliefs about human life has passed a pretty tough ethics test. We know that in at least some circumstances she will choose the hard, uphill road because that is the right way to go. Ditto with McCain....For all the academic honors Obama has won, he has yet to win any gold stars in ethics.

mcg said...

Paglia on Palin:

“We may be seeing the first woman president. As a Democrat, I am reeling,” said Camille Paglia, the cultural critic. “That was the best political speech I have ever seen delivered by an American woman politician. Palin is as tough as nails.”

mcg said...

Sorry, here's the original link. The link above was to a post on the Corner, one generation removed.

mcg said...

Hmm: according to this WaPo story, she was far from a last-minute choice. Obviously there is some spin here from the McCain campaign but with that in mind it's an interesting read.

blake said...

Blogger sashal said...

I feel sorry for your students in Madison.
Professor of law?
Shame and sad fact that our education is getting worse and worse....


No! No! You totally botched it! This isn't a "You, a law professor..." post, this is a "You blond bimbo" post!

Freakin' trolls, never hitting their marks.

MadisonMan said...

After being next to a Lake all day and coming back to read this, I have to ask: Obama is running against McCain, right? Come on, you can mention his name!