May 31, 2008

"Oh, damn. Where did you come from? I’m white. I’m entitled. There’s a black man stealing my show."

The things they say at Barack Obama's church:
In a guest appearance at Trinity United Church of Christ, the priest, the Rev. Michael Pfleger, who resigned about two weeks ago from an unpaid position on the Obama campaign’s Catholic advisory council, delivered a tirade against Mrs. Clinton that included fake tears, a high-pitched voice and top-of-the-lungs screaming. He also gave a racially tinged critique of so-called “white entitlement,” of which he says Mrs. Clinton is guilty.

“When Hillary was crying, and people said that was put on — I really don’t believe it was put on,” said Father Pfleger, 59, the white pastor of a predominantly black South Side church. “I really believe that she just always thought: ‘This is mine. I’m Bill’s wife, I’m white and this is mine. I just got to get up and step into the plate.’ And then, out of nowhere, came, ‘Hey, I’m Barack Obama.’ And she said, ‘Oh, damn. Where did you come from? I’m white. I’m entitled. There’s a black man stealing my show.”

Father Pfleger, a well-known longtime activist and friend of Mr. Obama, issued an apology late Thursday. “I regret the words I chose on Sunday. These words are inconsistent with Senator Obama’s life and message, and I am deeply sorry if they offended Senator Clinton or anyone else who saw them.”
Another sorry-if-you-were-offended apology.

Of course, the Clinton campaign is delighted by Pfleger's wonderful gift:
“Divisive and hateful language like that is totally counterproductive in our efforts to bring our party together and have no place at the pulpit or in our politics,” said Howard Wolfson, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton. “We are disappointed that Senator Obama didn’t specifically reject Father Pfleger’s despicable comments about Senator Clinton, and assume he will do so.”
How much mileage can they get out of this one?

Reading over Pfleger's remarks, I think they'd be perfectly apt in a comedy routine. The main problem is that they were in a sermon in a church... and it's Barack Obama's church, the source of way too many of his problems. How on earth could someone who supports Obama and is clever enough to say something like that be stupid enough to say it there?

ADDED: You've got to see it in video. [Better version of the clip swapped for the one I had before.]



Hilarious. Race-baiting... it's wrong. Still... LOL.

And here's Rush Limbaugh:
This is stupid! Unless there's a plan here. They must be out to sink Obama at this church, 'cause they know the whole world's watching. Well, that could be, too. Maybe they're just selfish. They're just trying to increase attendance and to hell with Obama. The thing is, this Pfleger guy, he's right. He stole that from me. I didn't say it quite that way, but we all know that the Clintons sitting around, you know, shell shocked. "What happened to us?"


AND: More Pfleger:



UPDATE: Obama and his wife resign from Trinity Church.

129 comments:

Padre Steve said...

The Obama Church must love the media spotlight more than they love their candidate! Padre Steve

rhhardin said...

The main problem is that they were in a sermon in a church... and it's Barack Obama's church, the source of way too many of his problems.

Obama's real problem is he's a moron, he knows nothing about anything.

His church problems are only soap opera narrative problems, with the soap opera narrataive audience.

How much discussion is about what soap opera women will like, and whether they will accept this or that!

There's another audience that doesn't get that far with Obama, but they don't support media advertisers.

The general interest of the story is mockery of the media and its audience in general. A what's next?! thing.

rhhardin said...

The Onion has Obama practicing his gaze into the future.

Why is that amusing? It catches what normal people catch about Obama, as opposed to his eager commentators.

Jason said...

Does that church still qualify for nonprofit status under 501(c)3?

If so, why? And how much politics do you have to preach from the pulpit to have such status revoked?

Methadras said...

Black wannabe. Nothing more, nothing less. The moniker of activist is stupid because he is nothing more than the mafia in a collar.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Where is the IRS on this? Separation of church and state fanatics should also be all over this; except I suppose they think it's ok because it is supporting their favorite candidate.

As a Catholic, I am embarrassed and appalled at this priest.His superiors should put him in a monastery.

The Catholic Church, or any religious institution, has no business being involved in political campaigns and this priest as well as others like Rev Wright are stirring up racial hatred. This campaign has set back race relations by 40 years.....or maybe it has just pulled off the nicey nice covering and revealing that nothing has changed after all.

Palladian said...

Do they ever preach the Gospel in this church?

former law student said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
former law student said...

Despicable comments? Fr. Pfleger called Hillary on her white privilege -- where's my tiny violin? Her crying on cue was very successful in New Hampshire (In response to "How do you do it? How do you keep your hair looking so good all the time?)

I liked his baseball analogy -- Hillary is the slumping home run hitter in the twilight of her career who's called back from the plate to let the rookie phenom pinch-hit for her.

I don't believe the separation of church and state requires people of faith to shut up when it comes to current events, or requires them to refrain from criticizing hypocrites. Would comparing Hillary to a whited sepulchre work any better?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"I don't believe the separation of church and state requires people of faith to shut up when it comes to current events, or requires them to refrain from criticizing hypocrites. Would comparing Hillary to a whited sepulchre work any better?"

Maybe you should aquaint yourself with the IRS tax code then. There is nothing to prevent people of religious persuasions to campaign or otherwise express their political opinions. That is part of our Constitutional rights (well except for McCain Feingold trampling on those rights)

"Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. The prohibition applies to all campaigns including campaigns at the federal, state and local level. Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes."

AND

"Political campaign intervention includes any and all activities that favor or oppose one or more candidates for public office. The prohibition extends beyond candidate endorsements. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made by or on behalf of an organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition on political campaign intervention. Distributing statements prepared by others that favor or oppose any candidate for public office will also violate the prohibition. Allowing a candidate to use an organization’s assets or facilities will also violate the prohibition if other candidates are not given an equivalent opportunity. Although section 501(c)(3) organizations may engage in some activities to promote voter registration, encourage voter participation, and provide voter education, they will violate the prohibition on political campaign intervention if they engage in an activity that favors or opposes any candidate for public office. Certain activities will require an evaluation of all the facts and circumstances to determine whether they result in political campaign intervention. "

These churches are in clear violation of the IRS code and should have their tax exempt status revoked.

Seven Machos said...

It is really embarrassing to see white people try to imitate black people. The more black credibility the white imitators have, the more embarrassing it is.

This guy was so cringe-inducing to me as to be off the scale.

AJ Lynch said...

Palladian said:

"Do they ever preach the Gospel in this church?"

You have a way of getting to the heart of an issue. Taxes, IRS - that is just peripheral stuff. But as Palladian asked, when does the religion stuff take place?

Trooper York said...

Lulu Baines: Oh, he gave me special instructions back of the pulpit Christmas Eve. He got to howlin' "Repent! Repent!" and I got to moanin' "Save me! Save me!" and the first thing I know he rammed the fear of God into me so fast I never heard my old man's footsteps!
(Elmer Gantry 1960)

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Al: maybe taxes are "peripheral" to you but if the church had it's tax exempt status revoked it would take away this and the incentive of the professional race baiters and the race panders like Sharpton, Jackson, Wright and others. Maybe they would find something more productive to do if they weren't living high on the hog by using tax exempt status loopholes of churches.

Kirby Olson said...

Incredibly funny little bit how the minister played to his crowd. The thing is, you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to try to show the good in the supposed enemy, which is what Jesus did in his parable of the Good Samaritan.

This church isn't Christian.

1jpb said...

Comments and beliefs like this:

"Do they ever preach the Gospel in this church?"

Are probably knowingly presented as exaggerations of the commentators' actual views. But, they do reveal a flaw that many folks have. When the topic is Trinity; folks seem to be unconsciously susceptible to using precisely and strategically excerpted sound bites as representations of thousands of hours of sermons.

The folks that do this extrapolation do (intellectually) realize that these excerpts are exceptions that can only be found after reviewing years of sermons. But, psychologically, these (otherwise strong minded) folks are susceptible to visceral feelings that they "know" what Trinity is about, even though intellectually they must realize that they don't know what Trinity is about, and the relatively few and isolated nature of the the incendiary Youtube comments explicitly indicate that these comments don't represent the body of this church.

The interesting question isn't what does Wright or BHO believe. The interesting question is what accounts for folks' psychology that overrides the indisputable reality, that Wright's "greatest hits" are isolated?

I wonder if this "psychology" is also why so many folks were disappointed by BHO's race speech because it had small parts that indicated some white folks may not see things the way many black folks see things. And, some folks have even complained that BHO's speech didn't call on black folks to change, which the speech clearly did do.

What "psychology" makes folks have these feelings or fears, without a factual basis?

PS: I wonder if Hannity's (and others) repeated focus on Wright and "black liberation" is an indication that BHO's opponents are consciously stirring up subconscious racial questions or fears.

UWS guy said...

This is either designed to provoke:

"look at the strange black churches" or "look at those strange liberal churches".

Not only does it seem that Sunday is the most segregated day of the week, it also appears that Republicans and Democrats have their own houses of worship also.

Eddie Izzard had a good shtick on black vs. white churches probably easy enough to find on Youtube.

Palladian said...

"What "psychology" makes folks have these feelings or fears, without a factual basis?"

The same "psychology" that makes folks deride rural citizens as bitter gun-and-church clingers. The same "psychology" that makes children cry about the 'impending' environmental apocalypse. The same "psychology" that makes half-witted "conservatives" (chuckle) repeatedly post comments about "psychology" as if people with opposing viewpoints are mentally deranged.

My question is valid, if a bit over dramatic. The mission of a Christian church is to preach the Gospel of Christ. How does having an invited Catholic priest and Obama campaign adviser using the pulpit to mock a political opponent further that mission?

I think Christ would be angrily kicking some "Hope/Change" posters if He were to visit Rev Wright's church.

Cedarford said...

Obama has called this man his "spiritual advisor". This implies a very strong relationship. Imagine if you can a racially reversed scenario. A black preacher in a white church mimicking Obama saying the white woman took what he's entitled to. Saying there are a lot of blacks upset by Clinton's campaign stealing Obama's rightful throne. If the entire church of white people were laughing, cheering, and amen-ing over these comments wouldn't the streets of the US be crowded with angry mobs of blacks calling out for an end to this blatant racism? Who are the racists now?
How upset would everyone be then? Why isn't everyone (including the media) outraged by this? Our country has huge problems, and we don't need to be sidetracked by stupid idiots encouraging racial divisions.


The problem Obama has is not just with his "spiritual mentors" like Rev Wright and Rev Pleger, or characters that show up and speak at Obama's Congregation in the most racist, hateful ways - like Louis Farrakan, ex-Black Panthers like Bobby Rush, ex-terrorists like Ayers, a pack of Anti-American Leftists and "3rd World Voices" including white and Jewish bashers from Palestine, Sandanistas, India, Libya......

No, its not just the speakers.

It is Obama's Congregation whooping and hollering and clapping for each such speaker because the bigotry, racism, and anti-Americanism is music to their ears.

That is what Obama immersed himself in for 20 years.

Now, if there was a white politician who sat 20 years in a white Megachurch and spoke and wrote about how happy he was being a member listening to a hateful pastor and equally hateful guest sermons from the most reactionary anti-black and anti-3rd World speakers, such a politician would be laughed of the stage if he came out campaigning as the white who transcends race....More if videos of hundreds of rednecks jumping up and down with enthusiasm existed.

If he exposed his kids to such hate and his wife made peculiar remarks about others obligation to make homage to Western Civ and the people that brought civilization to others - such a candidate would long ago have faced major scrutiny and not wriggled off the hook with a "commendable, soaring speech about 'more dialogue needed', 'moral equivalency' between black thugs and flag-waving patriot grandmas, and 'avoiding silly distractions like thousands of bigots I was in a congregation of'".

****************
Obama will not put this to bed. He and his wife immersed themselves in this hateful place for 20 years as complicit members of the congregation.
This Catholic priest and the angry blacks in attendence, if possible, only broadened the damage. Because he not only slimed white people to the cheers and approval of the black bigots in the pews - he made a special sexist effort to belittle Hillary as a weepy, weak woman.

former law student said...

dbq: you don't see the big gaping loop hole here:

Individual Activity by Religious Leaders
The political campaign activity prohibition is not intended
to restrict free expression on political matters by leaders
of churches or religious organizations speaking for
themselves, as individuals.

However, for their organizations to remain tax exempt
under IRC section 501(c)(3), religious leaders cannot
make partisan comments in official organization publications
or at official church functions.


Fr. Pfleger is a religious leader because he is a Catholic priest. His statements regarding Hillary's character flaws are arguably partisan. However, he did not jeopardize St. Sabina's 501(c)(3) status because he did not make those statements either in an official organization publication, or at an official Catholic church function. Speaking from a Protestant pulpit, Fr. Pfleger was clearly on his own, expressing his individual opinion not under the auspices of the Catholic church.

Nor did he jeopardize Trinity's tax-exempt status because while a religious leader, he was not a religious leader of Trinity. He had no affiliation with Trinity other than as an invited guest. Unless somehow Trinity knew what he was going to say about the campaign, they were not responsible for the words that came out of his mouth.

reader_iam said...

This contains some background about Pfleger, sandwiched around the current incident.

Trooper York said...

The show must go on

Oh, one monkey
Don't stop no show
If you don't want my love
You're free to go
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

Life is a play
We play different parts
But to be a star in love
You've got to feel it in your heart

You've been acting to strange
You don't love me with soul
Well, there's lots of other guys
Who'd love to play your role

If you don't wanna be my leading man
Get out of my life and let me live again
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

Oh, the show must go on

Hey, one monkey
Don't stop no show
If you don't want my love
You're free to go
(You can go, you can go, you can go)

( Gregg Perry and General Johnson,
1968 performed by Honey Cone)

bearbee said...

He has been pastor to African Americans for almost 30 years per Wiki

Like it or not he practices liberation theology and has been politically active for quite some time.

Some of his methods have been controversial to say the least and that recent charade was way over the top.

If he has violated IRS Code then he should be reckoned with, but he has accomplished some positives on behalf of his parishioners.

1jpb said...

The "psychology" is the same force that makes folks falsely think that BHO was talking about all rural folks clinging to a bunch of different things at the same time.

He was actually talking about a specific subset of voters who have ALL of the following characteristics:
--our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives
--some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest [such as BHO's home state]
--the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them
--they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And BHO said that the folks who fit this precise and narrow description cling to only ONE of the following:
--guns
-- or religion
--or antipathy to people who aren't like them
--or anti-immigrant sentiment
--or anti-trade sentiment

What "psychology" causes folks to internalize a meaning from BHO's comments, when this internalized version is at odds with his actual words?

I agree that the "psychology" of many environmental nuts is an example of strongly felt feelings that aren't based on any deep factual knowledge. At the same time, this environment talk can be positive if it leads to jobs, increases in American technology resulting in exportable goods, conservation, a cleaner environment, and (most importantly) a switch to oil alternatives (including clean coal and nuclear, if these are financially viable w/o direct or indirect (gov dealing with the waste) subsidizes.)

Being opposed to blasphemy, I don't read God's mind, but I wouldn't be going on a limb to suggest that he would find fault in Rs as well as Ds.

Cedarford said...

1jpb -
The interesting question isn't what does Wright or BHO believe. The interesting question is what accounts for folks' psychology that overrides the indisputable reality, that Wright's "greatest hits" are isolated?

Thats like arguing that Bull Connor did hundreds of acts of kindness for blacks and solved crimes where blacks were the victims and we should ignore a "few isolated incidents" of black suspects beaten with rubber hoses and the dogs set on and firehosing of marchers in the 1963 Selma March. Is it a "flaw in black psychology" to fixate on a few isolated instances of Bull Connor's career?

1jbp - I wonder if this "psychology" is also why so many folks were disappointed by BHO's race speech because it had small parts that indicated some white folks may not see things the way many black folks see things. And, some folks have even complained that BHO's speech didn't call on black folks to change, which the speech clearly did do.

No, the disapointment was not on psychology, but from realization that Obama's "Rev Wright not Germane Lets Focus on Transcending Race" speech - was a classic deflection from addressing serious issues by pretending that "they were not important" given Bigger Issues, and Moral Equivalency.

1. He would not denounce Wright. Because Wright was morally equivalent to his grandmother.
2. What was going on at Trinity was a "distraction" from the larger issues like Iraq and best ignored by the media and by voters.
3. At the same time, given it was not Obama's problem at all, but America's, whatever focus should there be should avoid Obama's 20-year membership and instead be directed at a soaring, edifiying "National Conversation on Race" - ideally after Obama is elected President and deals with the "more important issues".

1jpb - What "psychology" makes folks have these feelings or fears, without a factual basis?

Oh, I understand your position that videos catching the Trinity bigots in the act are provoking mere psychological reactions in people, without any factual basis.

1jpb - PS: I wonder if Hannity's (and others) repeated focus on Wright and "black liberation" is an indication that BHO's opponents are consciously stirring up subconscious racial questions or fears.

There is nothing subconscious about racist, ranting hateful sermons and thousands of blacks jumping up and down - loving each bileful word.
People outside the anti-American Left are not stirring up those "subconscious" questions or fears anymore than blacks in bygone days could be accused of stirring up "subconscious" racial questions or fears by virtue of their reaction to a Klan march through their town.

1jpb said...

Cedarford,

Thanks for providing me with a "shooting fish in a barrel" opportunity, but I'll pass, it's too easy.

On second thought, here's a glimpse of the gift you've given: think about your expressed opposition to "moral equivalence" and then apply this principle to your comments. If you can't see any hypocrisy in your comments, you should turn in your principled conservative card so that you can pick up your political hack card, because you deserve it.

Eli Blake said...

Hmmm....

And what did some white preachers say about the suffering caused by Hurricane Katrina?

Well, back when the Reverend Wright controversy erupted I posted some of them:

*--Steve Lefemine credited God: "In my belief, God judged New Orleans for the sin of shedding innocent blood through abortion [...] Providence punishes national sins by national calamities, [...] Greater divine judgment is coming upon America unless we repent of the national sin of abortion."


*--Reverend Bill Shanks credits God; God's reasons: Abortion, debauchery, homosexuals, witchcraft...

"New Orleans now is abortion free. New Orleans now is Mardi Gras free. New Orleans now is free of Southern Decadence and the sodomites, the witchcraft workers, false religion -- it's free of all of those things now, [...] God simply, I believe, in His mercy purged all of that stuff out of there -- and now we're going to start over again.


*--Rev. Dwight McKissic, the senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas said "New Orleans flaunts sin in a way that no other places do. They call it the Big Easy. There are 10 abortion clinics in Louisiana; five of those are in New Orleans. They have a Southern Decadence parade every year and they call it gay pride. When you study Scripture, it's not out of the boundaries of God to punish a nation for sin and because of sin. When I look at our country, at what's happening, and what's happening in New Orleans in particular, it's not beyond the realm of possibility."


*-- [Reverend] Fred Phelps credited Katrina as God's retribution for homosexuals: "New Orleans, symbol of America, seen for what it is: a putrid, toxic, stinking cesspool of fag fecal matter. [...] Pray for more dead bodies floating on the fag-semen-rancid waters of New Orleans."


So why is it that people get more upset about what is said at Trinity United than what is said by some of these white 'men of God,' many of whom are also politically active and endorse candidates (believe me, there are a lot more where Hagee came from.)

Now that what is preached in church sermons is allowed as talking points in political debates, I may start sneaking into the next church whose pastor endorses a candidate I don't like on some Sunday with a tape recorder and see if I can extract a sentence or two that will sound particularly odious.

Palladian said...

"And what did some white preachers say about the suffering caused by Hurricane Katrina?"

NYAH NYAH NYAH! Loonies on "your side" say stupid things too!

Well, I remember quite a few people on "my side" denouncing stupid remarks, but even if they didn't, how does that change what this priest said in Obama's church? Does that fact that stupidity is universal somehow negate the fact that Obama's church is apparently a racist political forum rather than a house of worship?

And I knew you were fond of low and lame tactics, Eli, but really, quoting Fred Phelps? I have never heard anyone agree or affirm anything that [Democrat] Fred Phelps has ever said, besides himself and his inbred family. But keep dodging and scraping, it's amusing.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Nor did he jeopardize Trinity's tax-exempt status because while a religious leader, he was not a religious leader of Trinity.

Wanna bet. Good thing you are a "former" law student and a really good thing you aren't a tax advisor.

Distributing statements prepared by others that favor or oppose any candidate for public office will also violate the prohibition

The mere fact that this type of political speech occurs on a regular basis IN the church WHILE at what are ostensibly religious sermons invalidates the Obama's church's tax exempt status or at least should bring their entire organization under scrutiny by the IRS. It doesn't matter that it is a Catholic priest who THIS TIME, made the remarks. The remarks are sanctioned by the church. Do you see anywhere where the church (not the Catholic Church) has retracted, apologized or otherwise indicated that this political speech was out of the ordinary? No you haven't and no you won't .

They have broken the law and they should pay for it. Just because they are a bunch of black bigots, doesn't give them a pass.

AJ Lynch said...

Eli, Trinity United is Obama's chosen house of worship!

That makes a big difference;Obama can't claim he had only a passing interest in this church.

The ones you mentioned have no direct link or tie or long relationship with the other candidates. One (Phelps) is a certified loon.

Dust Bunny:
I don't disagree with your tax issues - I just see the consistent racist tone of these "sermons" to be the overriding voter issue at this time. I will be surprised if Obama can survive the voter backlash.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"If he has violated IRS Code then he should be reckoned with, but he has accomplished some positives on behalf of his parishioners."

So freaking what?

Bonnie and Clyde gave money that they stole from banks. Jessie James also gave his illegally gotten gains to others. Does that make it fine to steal if you do good with some of your loot? Maybe no one should bother adhering to the laws.

How about I go mug a little old lady and get away with it because I gave half of her money to the homeless?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"Now that what is preached in church sermons is allowed as talking points in political debates, I may start sneaking into the next church whose pastor endorses a candidate I don't like on some Sunday with a tape recorder and see if I can extract a sentence or two that will sound particularly odious"

It doesn't matter if it is odious or if it is music to your ears. Political speech and political endorsements or negative endorsements of particular candidates are ILLEGAL when done by a 501c-3 organization and when done on their premises with their permision. Unless Father whatshisname broke into the church stormed up on the pulpit and gave his speech, it was an illegal act and violates their non profit status.

It isn't illegal to assume or guess that God punished New Orleans for sinfulness of the inhabitants. As much as I find it odious,it isn't even illegal for Rev. Wright to speculate that our chickens have come home to roost as a punishment from God. What is illegal is to get into political campaigning in church, during a church ceremone, or even on church property unless all sides of the political race are equally represented.

LarsPorsena said...

I think that the real problem is that BHO et al really don't understand what all the fuss is about. He's been marinating in this kind of rhetoric his whole life. He's in a leftoid cocoon.
Where I see malevolent clowns in clerical garb, he sees social commentators.
Just look at the exegesis by his apologists in the posts above.

Cedarford said...

Dust Bunny Queen -
You are pissing into the wind. Because of the heavy involvement of the black preacher community and black church organizations in the civil rights movement and its political effort, those "dues owed, deference to black church political activity" means black churches have long enjoyed a de facto immunity from IRS revoking their 501(C)3 tax exempt status.

Even when the abuse is flagrant - and the black churches in certain cities function as, effectively, wings of the Democratic machine recruitment, fundraising, media, voter registratars - and are in turn rewarded by the Democrats with major patronage for steering voters "properly".

***********
1jpb - Look pal, all you are is a bullshit artist spewing psychobabble of "subconscious" racial feelings and fears. All I did was call you on your crap.

Ernst Blofeld said...

The Catholic priest sounded like he was talking in blackface--using the same verbal and rhetorical tics as a black preacher of Wright's type.

BTW, Pfleger also said this at an anti-gun rally in front of a gun shop, about the owner:

"He's the owner of Chuck's. John Riggio. R-i-g-g-i-o. We're going to find you and snuff you out… you know you're going to hide like a rat. You're going to hide but like a rat we're going to catch you and pull you out."

Palladian said...

Wonder what Pope Benedict XVI thinks about this wayward priest? I can already guess what the priest thinks about Pope Benedict XVI.

1jpb said...

All you did was present an argument that was indisputably based on self-contradiction. In other words, you demonstrated that your beliefs are not based of facts or consistent principles, rather there must be some kind of "psychological" explanation. I fully understand that you can't comprehend and acknowledge your self-contradictions: dissonance is more common than it is rare.

As I wrote; shooting fish in a barrel. Someone's likely to think that I've got your password and I'm writing your comments to prove my point.

It really is interesting to see so many folks think that they "know" about 20 years at Trinity because they've seen a few clips that were absolutely aberrations (when BHO wasn't even in church) as is undeniable because of the fact that these clips had to be carefully pulled from years of sermons where the rest of the content wasn't incendiary.

And, then to see "conservatives" running amuck by attaching all kinds of moral equivalencies to these few outlier comments (when BHO wasn't in church), is stunning. Hackery, is apparently the new conservatism. Hannity, Rove et. al. are rotting the political brains of conservatives.

Palladian said...

I love that you think you're a "true conservative", 1jpb. I don't tend to believe in political labels myself, but I do think there are many valid concerns about the kind of people with whom BHO surrounds himself. These concerns should transcend political labels.

Are you Andrew Sullivan?

John Z. said...

Meanwhile, the Democratic party is tearing itself apart over the Florida and Michigan delegates.

Pass the popcorn!

Trooper York said...

Sheriff Dunlop: Excuse me son, what are you doing walking around in a black cape in 80 degree weather in July?
Mamuwalde It is the custom of my people. Is this not America?
Lisa: You tell em baby. Don’t let that honky pig push you around.
Pimp Stay out of this bitch or I get a coat hanger and whip your ass!
Mamuwalde: Not in my presence you oaf.
(Scream Blackula Scream, 1973)

1jpb said...

I'm smarter than Sullivan: I always knew that W was a mistake.

And, I don't fully claim the conservative label anymore. This is a fairly recent conversion to independence for me. Until recent years I was continuing on a decades long path that started around the time that a high school teacher made the class physically separate into the Rs and Ds, I was the lone R.

But, let me tell you that if I see more wisdom and less Bush-McCain and Hannity (although, ironically, I do continue to listen to a lot of wingnut radio) driving the R party, I'll be back in eight years.

UWS guy said...

Palladian: Everyone knows Titus is andrew sullivan.

Trooper York said...

(using voodoo, the heir to Mama Loa’s cult raises the dead vampire Blacuka)
Willis: Rise Blackula rise. Bring us to a new understanding. Come and aid us in our fight against the man! Rise Blackula, Rise and walk the earth again!
Mamuwalde / Blacula: What you talking about Willis?
(Scream Blackula Scream, 1973)

bearbee said...

IRS Investigating Obama's Church

IRS probe of Obama's church 'troubling'
WilmerHale Gets Obama's Church Off IRS Hook

UWS guy said...

Dust Bunny Queen: (looking down at her hands) "Are these the bonds of slavery for 400 years in my grasp?

Black People: "I hate whitey."

Dust Bunny Queen: Gasp! "You're a horrible racist."

Black people: ...

It's always someone else's religion thats fetid. It's always some other pastor that's trucks in mumbo-jumbo and rancid thoughts.

Christopher Hitchens is right of course--(no semi-colon here folks)--Religion Poisons Everything.

(available at amazon.com, access through the amazon button on the right hand bar of Althouse.com.)
---------

This began with Romney and Huckabee continues with Wright and Hagee. This just teaches future politicians to be:

1) Episcopalian
2) Agnostic

win win for our Republic.

UWS guy said...

Makes me long for the days of Bill Clinton...all he did was carry a bible and never a peep about his church.

Lord...maybe it was the Jefferson bible...I'd vote for his wife if it were.

Palladian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

"Until recent years I was continuing on a decades long path that started around the time that a high school teacher made the class physically separate into the Rs and Ds, I was the lone R."

Yikes. Talk about "psychological problems".

Come in out of the cold, little lost one. All those years of isolation must have been difficult. Barack "is going to demand... that you come out of your isolation". Give up your beliefs, they're not important. What is important is to be part of the group, to fit in, to be loved. You've finally gotten up and crossed to the other side of the room to join all the 'normal' kids. Feel their welcoming embrace. Say it with them: "YES SENATOR OBAMA: WE ARE READY TO BELIEVE AGAIN". You're whole again. "Barack will never allow you to go back to your [life] as usual."

1jpb said...

I should note that I was the proud and defiant lone R. I reveled in my conservatism, this was the opposite of "psychological" set back.

My appreciation of confronting opposition has most recently been demonstrated by my commenting here (after I was evicted from the HRC strongholds of myDD and Talkleft, not to mention that I'm bored with the uniformity of Kos and the like.)

I do like your links, but I've seen the Kool-Aid (messiah, cult) accusations before. Even your creative presentation was not very compelling. This shark has jumped and no creative angle will CHANGE that, as much as you may HOPE otherwise.

michaele said...

Just heard on CNN that Obama has resigned from Trinity church. In a way, isn't that like cutting and running? Why hasn't he used his celebrated powers of persuasion over the past 20 years to change the anti white attitude that permeates Trinity? He should stay with the church and try to "make a difference" and bring people together. If he can't do it in his own back yard, why am I supposed to believe he can do it on the national and international stage?

Trooper York said...

Willis: The Cult of Mama Loa is mine I tell you. Mine. Rise up and destroy the white man.
Mamuwalde / Blacula: I resign.
Willis: You can’t resign. You are a voodoo vampire and you always will be so.
Mamuwalde / Blacula: Just because I have been a voodoo vampire and have worshiped at the feet of the Evil ones doesn’t mean I believe in this shit man. I was just in it for the bowling team.
(Scream Blackula Scream, 1973)

John Z. said...

Oh no, Obama just resigned from Trinity.

This brings up an interesting question for former law student and others who have been defending this church and its racist spew for so long. Why would Obama do such a thing?

And how does it feel there under the bus?

reader_iam said...

Meanwhile, has everyone read Eve Fairbanks' Scenes From Today's RBC Hillary Protest yet?

Meade said...

" In a way, isn't that like cutting and running?"

No. It's just plain cutting. Sort of like disowning the black community. Or his white grandmother.

I'm guessing, after Wright and Pfleger, there must be yet a third Trinity Church shoe and Obama doesn't want to be standing there when it too drops. In case it deeply regrettably offends anyone. Anyone like voters.

Eli Blake said...

John Z:

It's become a political liability for him. I'm sure Obama will find another church to join, probably not until after the election.

But it's hardly 'throwing the church under the bus' because of the clear necessity to dissociate himself from them.

palladian:

No, all these churches are houses of worship. In fact, if you've ever been to a sermon by a real fire-breathing minister (I've been to some) they say all kinds of things. As I pointed out in my last sentence, you can get a tape recorder if you want to, tape them and then find a sentence or two to discredit them. That's been done to politicians for years but apparently that is now the standard for preachers.

You know what I thought about when I heard Jeremiah Wright with the line, "Goddamn America--it's in the Bible, for killing innocent people?" I thought, "You know what, that sounds exactly like a Baptist minister I once heard, only he was talking about abortion."

That's one reason I joined the LDS church, to be honest: We all do the speaking ourselves. No paid clergy, just ordinary members who get asked to speak every week. And mostly the speeches are low key, no ranting and raving like a lunatic.

LarsPorsena said...

"I can no more disown him (Wright) than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother.."

I guess it took a white priest to get him to dump the church.

reader_iam said...

Interesting, the timing of the resignation, isn't it? Given what else has been going on this weekend ... .

Ernst Blofeld said...

1jpb's Captain Renault defense of the preaching at Trinity--Obama was shocked, shocked to discover this going on!- doesn't fly. Wright was consistent in his worldview, and not quiet about it.

Trooper York said...

Absolutely. Everyone is concentrating on the big Yankee/Twins series.

Eli Blake said...

That said, it's time for a little humor:

Obama does now need to find a church to join.

Some thoughts:

Catholic: In another priest says something embarrassing then Obama can talk to the Monsignor about an excercism of said priest.

Jewish: Hey, what the heck? It might help him in Florida. Then again there is that circumcision requirement (ouch.)

Hare Krishna: Imagine how much money they could raise for the Obama campaign by bugging travelers in airports?

Muslim: Polling shows that as many as seven percent of the American people are so behind the times that they've never even heard of Rev. Wright and believe that Obama is a muslim. Might as well make them right about something.

Anglican: Technically the British monarch is at the head of the church, so if he got elected President would that return the United States to formal recognition of British rule?

Southern Baptist: He'd be in the front row for some more race-baiting sermons. Only the race would change.

LDS: Just in case he doesn't get elected President this gives him a backup plan. He could go visit his relatives in Kenya for two years. On a mission.

Born again: We've had two Presidents who were born again Christians. Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush. On second thought-- pick a different church.

Jehovah's witness: How is this for getting votes? Stand there and pitch to the same voter ignoring requests to leave, until he or she says yes?

FLDS: Just in case he gets tired with Michelle, he could get another.... and then another.... and then another.... Why would he want that? Simple. He could really play with Bill Clinton's mind and get him back for some of those campaign attacks.

Penitente: After getting beaten with cactus whips, nothing the media throws at him would be as tough.

Hindu: Just in case he gets tired with God, he could get another.... and then another.... and then another....

Falun Gong: Imagine how well this would go over with the Chinese.

Tibetan Buddhist: Same as the above.

Taoist: We are not a collection of red and blue deities, but can come together. Plus, this would help with the Korean community.

Atheist: If there is no God, that makes the President of the United States the most powerful being in the Universe. This might appeal more to the Clintons.

Palladian said...

Church Of The Subgenius.

Eli Blake said...

Oh, and a couple more:

Pentecostal: These folks are the most in shape folks there are. For a guy with a packed schedule, you can go to church on Sunday AND get your calisthenics done all at the same time.

Quaker: In line with his pledge to leave Iraq.

Voodoo: If he's behind in the campaign maybe he can get a McCain action figure and some pins...

Animism: It would give him a stronger case to make for ending global warming.

JohnTaylor88 said...

I think this is hilarious. How can you not laugh at this? It's hilarious. And it's hilarious because, well, it's exaggerated, but Hillary basically ran on an entitlement platform: I am inevitable. This is funny.

Eli Blake said...

Hey here is a thought:

How about joining the ancient Inca religion? And for his induction ceremony he could have Reverend Wright and Father Pfleger wrapped up in rope and thrown down a volcano in the Andes.

John Z. said...

Who will be the next angry, outspoken, inconvenience to be thrown under the bus?

Watch out, Michelle!!

Meade said...

I think Palladian is on to something: Obama's next move is to form his own church with himself at the head.

Trooper York said...

Jamie (Lorenzo Lamas): All right everyone out of the bus.
Bus Driver Lee Hayes (OJ Simpson): You can’t throw these people out of the bus while it’s moving! They will fall under the wheels. You might as well cut off their heads.
Uncredited sexy blonde passenger (Nicole Brown Simpson): Gulp!
(Detour to Terror, 1980)

Meade said...

Watching his live press conference, he seems flustered and unprepared. I'm having trouble believing this Change we're supposed to be able to believe in.

1jpb said...

Ernst: yet another example of those who viscerally "know" about 20 years of Trinity, even though, really, they only know a few minutes of outlier Youtube clips (when BHO wasn't in church) that can only be found after cherry picking from years of sermons that don't repeat these incendiary Youtube clips.

How do your minds have this

visceral certainty that these outlier clips were common, at the same time you know that it is 100% indisputable that these clips were not common, and BHO didn't even witness them?

There is an interesting question of the psychology of those of you who display this peculiar behavior where you have feelings about what was common for 20 years at Trinity, and your feelings out weigh your intellect that knows the factual record, i.e. these incendiary comments were outliers that can only be found by reviewing and ignoring years of sermons that actually represent 20 years of NOT incendiary Youtube clips.

This is a very intriguing phenomenon, but rather than address what makes minds act in this way, I see that many of you just keep acting this way, without explanation. How do you have deeply felt incorrect beliefs about what sermon language was common, even though you also know (because of the limited number of Youtube excerpts) that these incendiary clips were outliers, the result of going through and IGNORING what was really going on at Trinity over 20 years?

Maybe I'm asking too much, if folks were able to answer this question about themselves, they probably wouldn't be displaying this interesting behavior in the first place.

I can't imagine that BHO leaving the church will matter to those of you who display this interesting behavior. You've already demonstrated that your irrational feelings outweigh the facts that are you intellectually know and understand. You folks with this behavior know that BHO kept Wright away from his announcement after a Rolling Stone article had some incendiary language from Wright, you know that BHO was not in church for the incendiary Youtube comments that were later found, you know that these comments were outliers that must be cherry picked from years of sermons, you know that BHO condemned the Youtube comments when he first saw the videos, you know that he condemned Wright when Wright stood by some of these outlier comments at the Press Club, and now you know that BHO has amicably left the church after Trinity made it into the news with Father rent-a-rant.

I see that Hannity was just now pontificating on Fox, so y'all need not wait until Monday to figure out what you FEEL about this newest turn (as a bonus Hannity makes false statements about BHO so y'all can get excited and ignorant at the same time.)

"Much, much more" coming up on Fox. Tune in!!!!!!!!!!!!

former law student said...

Distributing statements prepared by others that favor or oppose any candidate for public office will also violate the prohibition

To violate the prohibition, Fr. Pfleger would have had to prepare his statements in advance, Trinity would have had to distribute them, they would have had to favor or oppose a candidate for public office, and impliedly Trinity would have had to know the content of his statement in advance in order to be liable.

So what did Trinity do? Did they pass out a bunch of anti-Hillary fliers? No. The only "distribution" was letting Fr. Pfleger speak. If letting people speak exposed Trinity to liability, the IRS would have said so. Further, there's no evidence Fr. Pfleger prepared his remarks in advance. From the intrinsic evidence, he was speaking completely off the cuff. And while the speech was critical of Hillary's character, the pastor did not say "Don't vote for her" or "Vote for Obama." Further, Hillary was no longer a candidate in Illinois where his listeners lived and could vote because the primary election there was months ago. At worst he was criticizing a former candidate. Finally, there is no evidence that Trinity knew or should have known the content of his speech, so Trinity could not be liable for its content.

It's funny that the commenters who are so eager to smear various pastors as racist will not grant a pastor the right to tag Hillary Rodham Clinton as a racist. Do clergy give up their freedom of speech in exchange for tax benefits? If so, do the Bush tax cuts imply that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have to dummy up, as well?

Trooper York said...

I thought the "outliers" were those dirty hippie bikers who get shot at the end of Easy Rider.

Jeeez, I gotta watch more CNN.

Trooper York said...

No tonight though, there is an Audie Murphy marathon on the Western Channel.

George said...

Sen. Obama has another supporter who is far less controversial.

This person is cool and ultimately unsympathetic, I think, and is closely and keenly watching and quietly learning from his multifarious mishaps.

This quiet supporter has major holdings in the book, magazine, television, satellite radio, movie, and internet industries. This person has spoken out on every conceivable political issue for more than two decades. This supporter is trusted and beloved. This supporter has 100 percent name recognition and is very popular among women, blacks, gays, and the people of all of the world's nations. This person is a billionaire who can spend whatever it takes to get elected President.

No one would have believed in the last years of the twentieth century a second-rate movie actor could become President, so why not....

Trooper York said...

Oprah ain't running dude. Dream on.

Meade said...

1jpb said...
"...It's funny that the commenters who are so eager to smear various pastors as racist will not grant a pastor the right to tag Hillary Rodham Clinton as a racist."

It is? Funny? Which commenters? You must be new around here. We all grant everyone the right to tag anyone anything. You sure you're not thinking you're in the Kos neighborhood by mistake? I'm sure Trooper York or someone can give you directions if you're lost.

knoxwhirled said...

He's just trying to out-do Hillary's attempt at sounding black: "I don't feeeeeeel no ways tired..."

titushowareyourchakras said...

Good evening fellow republicans.

Tonight I scored a major coup.

Last weekend I met one of NYC's gay society and we hit it off. In a girlfriend way not sex.

Well I saw her at the gym this week and she invited me to a very selective event this evening.

The event is every Saturday by invite only and it the best and brightest of NYC gay glimmerati.

Were talking tops in the field of Wall Street, Interior Design, Fashion, Publishing and Media.

I am unable to let anyone know the specific address or name of the event it is that exclusive.

I need to make an impact. I am incredibly tense right now. Nervous is an understatement. I going to have one cocktail before I leave in order to relax me a bit.

Wish me luck.

I am great thanks for asking.

Trooper York said...

(singing] We represent the Lollypop Guild, the Lollypop Guild, the Lollypop Guild.
And on behalf of the Lollypop Guild, we'd like to welcome you to Munchkinland!
(The Wizard of Oz,1939)

Trooper York said...

Titus is the good fairy of Munchkinland!

Trooper York said...

Maxine is the wicked witch.

Trooper York said...

Pallidan is the tin man.

Trooper York said...

Mort is the Cowardly lion. He'll pulverize ya.

Trooper York said...

Call me Scarecrow.

If I only had a brain.

titushowareyourchakras said...

I have to sign an agreement that I will not speak about anyone or anything that happens at the event.

Did I say it is exclusive?

titushowareyourchakras said...

I have decided to dress in understated elegance.

Nothing bright, all very subtle but expensive.

The accoutrements will be fabulous fierce and receiving compliments.

The hair was just cut-it's perfect.

The complexion to die for.

Arms defined.

Ass you could bounce quarters off of.

titushowareyourchakras said...

But the ass will not be pentrated just adorned and respected.

Palladian said...

They're all going to laugh at you!

titushowareyourchakras said...

Psycho's on TCM right now. It's getting me in the mood for the event.

I am a wreck right now.

Meade said...

trooper york said...
Call me Scarecrow.

If I only had a brain.

By Christopher Steidle, M.D.
WebMD Medical Reference from "The Impotence Sourcebook"

Priapism is the occurrence of any persistent erection for more than four hours duration in the absence of sexual stimulation. Priapism is named after Priapus, the Greek god of fertility, and the son of Aphrodite, the goddess of love. He was apparently an ugly, satyrlike man with enormous genitalia. He was the god of gardens, bees, goats, and sheep. According to the story, Priapus had a huge tongue, a fat belly, and his penis was so large that he was restricted to the position of scarecrow in the fields.

Trooper York said...

The professor it the little girl who is swept up in a tornado to a strange and wonderful land with strange and crazy characters.

Trooper York said...

With her little pet puppy. Simon.
Woof.

titushowareyourchakras said...

I am bringing $500.00 in cash for drinkeys and cabs to wherever the evening takes me.

My pucker will be shaved all the way up to my vas deferans.

Palladian said...

"I am a wreck right now."

Right now?!

titushowareyourchakras said...

Shirt-$600
Pants-$400
Watch-$4000
Shoes-$900
Belt-$240

Body-priceless

titushowareyourchakras said...

My clitoris is dangling to the left.

titushowareyourchakras said...

I am going alone. Walking into a room full of divas and bitches.

I am what you would call a Profile in Courage.

Where's my award? At least a book about my strength would be nice.

Eli Blake said...

So:

On one hand some of you folks are saying Obama 'threw the church under the bus' while on TV some righties are asking why he didn't go further and 'denounce the church.'

He went too far. He didn't go far enough.

Clearly it doesn't matter what he does, from get up in the morning to go to bed at night, but some of you folks will do whatever you can to find fault with.

Trooper York said...

Scarcrow: People without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?
(The Wizard of Oz, 1939

titushowareyourchakras said...

I had my teeth whitened for the event.

They almost look too white.

I hope the lighting doesn't make them glow.

That would be a disaster.

titushowareyourchakras said...

There has to be no indication that I was originally from Wisconsin.

Generally that is not a problem but sometimes I slip. It could be a word or some appetizer or something that indicates to people I am a cheesehead. I mustn't go there tonight.

Most people in the city think I am actually from the city which I am grateful for.

titushowareyourchakras said...

It's almost showtime.

Can you feel the energy?

It's getting tense.

titushowareyourchakras said...

Where's my chapstick?

I can't find my chapstick.

Cedarford said...

1jpb - ...and your feelings out weigh your intellect that knows the factual record, i.e. these incendiary comments were outliers that can only be found by reviewing and ignoring years of sermons that actually represent 20 years of NOT incendiary Youtube clips.

What a twit. What was found was not culled from 20 years of sermons but from 18 sermons sold on Trinity Church's website and at its store giftshop.
The "outliers" are from 18 sermons out of several hundred in 20 years that Wright thought would be a credit to him and put up for sale.

The Chicago Tribune's request to look at and review the hundreds of other sermons was turned down. The journalists wanted to see the ones where Farrakan spoke, various terrorists from Central America and African "liberation movement theoreticians" spoke, Palestinian fighters, black firebrands - and of course to see if they could pick up any images of BO and Michelle whooping and hollering as America and whitey got trashed. No go.
Present and former members of TUCC did tell the Tribune that the sermons on sale were representative of his other sermons, possible even less bombastic than in the stuff he did in the 80s, early 90s in the heyday of Marxist black liberation, terror movements in Africa.

1jpb - that it is 100% indisputable that these clips were not common, and BHO didn't even witness them?

What crap. How do you know that it is 100% indisputable that Obama did not witness whitey-hating, anti-American episodes? How do you know what is on the 100's of unreviewed videos, not just the 18 allowed to be looked at?

ijpb - I can't imagine that BHO leaving the church will matter to those of you who display this interesting behavior.

I don't know, I find your asinine rants ascribing other peoples reaction to psychology and "subliminal racial fear" and displaying "interesting behavior" after exposure to Wright's videos quite funny.

Sometimes a pack of resentful black racists who hate America congregated together in common belief - are simply a pack of black racists. And like Freuds cigar - symbolize nothing except what they are - and other people's reaction to them is nothing else other than what they can clearly see and hear.

It's also important to note that certain incidents, in the eyes of others, cannot be dismissed by the culprit as an "outlier" if the incident or behavior involved in it is bad enough. NO doubt on the majority of his sermons, Wright and his guest speakers like Farrakan avoided saying "God Damn America", whites invented AIDs to kill blacks. No matter. That is like saying most nights of his marriage, Eliot Spitzer was faithful to his wife and the nights with high-priced hookers were "outliers".

titushowareyourchakras said...

Who knew going to church could be so entertaining.


Tick, tock, tick, tock.....I am almost ready.

Can you feel it?

Meade said...

Where's my chapstick?

I can't find my chapstick.


It's probably dangling to the right, where you left it.

TMink said...

It's about the Christ.

Jesus is central as well as Alpha and Omega to Christianity. It makes me wonder what is more important to this "church" and than the Son of God.

There are others like it on both sides of the spectrum, the Klan often identify themselves as "Christians" too.

Where those guys gonna run when things get interesting?

Trey

titushowareyourchakras said...

OK, I am back. I was just out on my juliet balcony in lotus postion doing some deep breathing and finding my center.

I am a basket case right now.

TMink said...

Oh, and I am the horse's ass of a different color.

Trey

former law student said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
former law student said...

Where's my chapstick?

I can't find my chapstick.

It's probably dangling to the right, where you left it.


Wrong chapstick. I guessed titus was greasing up for action.

Lip service is all you`ll ever get from me.
Lip service is all you`ll ever get from me.
Lip service is all you`ll ever get from me.
But if you change your mind
you can send it a letter to me

Don`t make any sudden movements.
These are dangerous amusements.
When did you become so choosy?
Don`t act like you`re above me;
just look at your shoes.

Elvis Costello

Ann Althouse said...

There's no place like home.

In Wisconsin.

1jpb said...

Meade, you have mistakenly credited me with a quote from someone else.

Cedarford,

So, you're defending your non-reality based beliefs by pointing to unseen video tapes. Do you realize you're digging a hole? My point is that you (and others) have opinions that are not supported by evidence, so it reinforces my point when you point to vague hearsay and things that you acknowledge are unknown at the same time you are stating that these unknowns are the basis of your opinions. This is the precisely my point: your self-contradiction isn't some secret that I'm claiming to have discovered. Your self-contradiction is openly and repeatedly professed by YOU, but your dissonance prevents you from seeing it.

By the way, the media has reviewed other audio tapes, videos tapes, and transcripts from other sermons and venues. And, do you know who was the only D to be supported by the conservative Tribune, which seems to be a paper that you like? They based their support on their 12 year familiarity with this chosen one (h/t to the messiah meme mongers.)

By repeatedly partaking yourself, you are demonstrating why you are so offended when you perceive that others are using moral equivalency arguments. Are there any other things that you really dislike and often see in others? You do seem to see a lot of racists where you admit to relying on unknown information.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"It's funny that the commenters who are so eager to smear various pastors as racist will not grant a pastor the right to tag Hillary Rodham Clinton as a racist. Do clergy give up their freedom of speech in exchange for tax benefits? If so, do the Bush tax cuts imply that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have to dummy up, as well?"

The pastor, father, minister, whatever is perfectly free to double team, tag team, back door Hillary or any other person they would like.on their own time and as long as they make it clear that they are not speaking on behalf of their religious organization......OUTSIDE of the auspices, confines and implied authority of their church or other 501c-3 tax exempt organization. They are allowed, on a personal level, to do whatever the fuck they want. However, they are not allowed to use the cover of their tax exempt organization to do so. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Do the clergy give up their free speech rights in exchange for tax exempt status? No they don't on an indivitual level.....but they don't have the right to use their tax exempt organization to advance a particular candidates and endorse on the behalf of the organization a political candidate over the other.

FLS: again I reiterate....it is a very very good thing that you are not a tax or financial advisor. Your clients would be screwed nine ways to Wednesday.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"He went too far. He didn't go far enough."

Too little, too late.

vbspurs said...

Breaking: DNC votes to award half-votes for the Mi/Fla primaries to each candidate.

And here is Hillary's reaction.

Cheers,
Victoria

garage mahal said...

1jpb - that it is 100% indisputable that these clips were not common, and BHO didn't even witness them?

Apparently they were commmon enough, that's why he quit that church today!

Meade said...

1jpb said...
"Meade, you have mistakenly credited me with a quote from someone else. "

I beg your pardon.

Former Law Student.
Figures.

blake said...

"Now that what is preached in church sermons is allowed as talking points in political debates, I may start sneaking into the next church whose pastor endorses a candidate I don't like on some Sunday with a tape recorder and see if I can extract a sentence or two that will sound particularly odious"

The "sentence or two" is particularly dishonest. The full clips have so far made things sound much worse, at least to those offended by the sentences in the first place.

Well, I believe that with McCain, he just had to appear on stage with Hagee once to get an OUTRAGED "tu quoque" from the left.

But, really, feel free. If there's some candidate sitting in a church somewhere while the preacher is going on about the evils of America or a particular group of people (black, white, Hispanic, whatever), the people should know.

Michael said...

Trooper York: Titus is the good fairy of Munchkinland!

Aw geeze! Anyone know how to get snot out of a keyboard?

Ralph said...

We're talking tops in the field of Wall Street, Interior Design, Fashion, Publishing and Media.
No, I'll bet they're all bottoms. Which should put you in Hog Heaven.

Revenant said...

Dust Bunny Queen: (looking down at her hands) "Are these the bonds of slavery for 400 years in my grasp?

DBQ might have owned slaves, but personally I put her age at significantly less than 143.

As for me, I never owned slaves. Neither did any of my ancestors, unless they owned some in ancient Roman times or something. The only thing I have in common with the white slave-owners of the 18th century is the color of my skin. And guess what: blaming ME for something another person did just because we share the same skin color is about as racist as you can get.

(and before you say that I also share a nationality with those slave owners -- so do American blacks. This is their country too)

titushowareyourchakras said...

Fellows republicans I am back.

It was a great evening.

I actually ran into some straighties that I have befriended over the past month-thank god. Being on my own the entire night would of been hell.

It was fabulous.

I can't devulge too much but I loved it. I have arrived and am able to fit in comfortably with the A list. That is what is important in life.

The surroundings were absolutely delicious.

If you don't know the NYC media is totally in the pocket of the gays. The gays pick out their clothes, do their makeup and do their hair.

It is gay gay gay.

The designer of the club is famous. Can't say his name but he was one of the major Studio 54 divas.

I did get laid. It was someone that I have done before. He was black, with an amazing body and a british accent. How hot is that? You don't expect a black man to have a British accent but when he does it is incredible. Love the contrast.

OK, I am off to bed.

I hope all of my fellow repubicans and lovers of everything about Bush had an incredible evening.

Wisconsin, home???? How depressing.

reader_iam said...

Hey, Titus: This one's for you, mon cher.

reader_iam said...

You don't expect a black man to have a British accent

WTF? Of course you do (one does), depending.

(Got a little too explicit in your implication and metaphor there, Titus; perhaps you need a few extra yoga sessions, an emergency deep-muscle message or two, and a crisis feng-shui intervention to regain your balance.)

bearbee said...

He went too far. He didn't go far enough.

Obama's conundrum.

Clearly it doesn't matter what he does, from get up in the morning to go to bed at night, but some of you folks will do whatever you can to find fault with.

Well, tut, tut and boo hoo.

So long politics 'hope and change.'

Welcome politics down and dirty.

Meade said...

"I can't devulge too much but I loved it."

Paragon of discretion.

rhhardin said...

Limbaugh has the best theory (Monday 12:25) : the guy is a ringer brought in so that Obama can quit the church, not because of black culture or a black minister, but because of a white priest.

LarsPorsena said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LarsPorsena said...

Trumpit:
"What has killed more people in history: science or religion?"

Google 'scientific Marxism' then ask yourself the question.