February 17, 2008

"Each candidate chooses the rule at the moment that is in their self-interest."

Wasn't Chuck Schumer deliciously oily on "Meet the Press" today?
[It's important] that at the end of the day, we don't have such an internecine battle that we lose the general election. Most Hillary supporters are strong for Hillary; most Barack supporters are strong for Barack. But I think most of us all feel winning that general election and making sure that there's not another four years of Bush-McCain is predominant. So having a set rule in sand when, of course, each candidate chooses the rule at the moment that is in their self-interest, makes no sense....

So, you know, this, this issue of how the superdelegates ought to vote, you know, this great epistemological, metaphysical issue, no one thought about it three months ago. To me, it is not a great moral issue. The great moral issue is defeating George Bush, John McCain, and coming up with a way that we can do--walk away from the convention unified. And neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama, I think, want to have an internecine fight where one side is so bitter that the other feels that they can't enthusiastically support the winner....

The bottom line is, for Florida and Michigan, I believe it's much like the superdelegates. There's a great dispute here... I think there's going to be a clear winner.... But let's say we're not there. Then Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have to sit down and come up with a process that both sides buy into and both sides will abide by. You cannot--you cannot let these internecine battles create a war.
He would not commit to any principle other than avoiding an "internecine" battle. Clearly, he came to Tim Russert's table ready to use the word "internecine" to fend off efforts to get him to debate what the right rule is about the superdelegates and the Florida and Michigan delegates. I'm suspicious of people who suddenly start using and reusing a word that people don't normally say. Schumer didn't even know how to pronounce it.

93 comments:

John Thacker said...

I wonder how much mileage Schumer and other Democrats get out of "Bush-McCain." "Another four years of Bush-McCain?"

rhhardin said...

I'd have gone with gravitas.

rhhardin said...

Al Frankin came on Imus long ago and referred to romans a clef, pronouncing the f.

And Pete Hammill stressed the need to corrobate newspaper stories.

Imus is not as official as Meet the Press, though.

Palladian said...

I can't think of an American politician that I dislike as much as I dislike Schumer.

The words "internecine" and "noxious" have a similar root: the Latin "necare" which means to murder violently. What is he implying about his party's candidates, that they're going to beat each other to death with clubs? Now that would be quite a debate format.

MadisonMan said...

Translation: Rules can be broken as long as Democrats are victorious.

Bob said...

Ann Althouse: He would not commit to any principle other than avoiding an "internecine" battle. Clearly, he came to Tim Russert's table ready to use the word "internecine" to fend off efforts to get him to debate what the right rule is about the superdelegates and the Florida and Michigan delegates. I'm suspicious of people who suddenly start using and reusing a word that people don't normally say. Schumer didn't even know how to pronounce it.

Which means that it's not part of his own vocabulary. Talking points, anyone?

George said...

"This issue of how the superdelegates ought to vote, you know, this great epistemological, metaphysical issue..."

What in the blue Jesus is he talkin' about?

Middle Class Guy said...

What is it with these people? They make rules, everone agrees to abide by the rules, and when circumstances go against them, the rules they agreed to are unfair or as in this case not the right rule.

As to super delegates, they were created to keep a maverick or noxious candidate from being nominated. It would allow the "wise party elders" to step in to save the party.

These two parties are broken beyond repair.

Kev said...

So the Republican candidate this year is some guy named "Bush McCain?" This reminds of 1996, when the nominee was some guy named "Dolan Gingrich." As in, "Bill Clinton stood strong for Social Security when Dolan Gingrich voted to let your grandparents starve."

By the way, Chuck, what happened to those staffers of yours they caught going through Michael Steele's personal records?

Maxine Weiss said...

"I'm suspicious of people who suddenly start using and reusing a word that people don't normally say. Schumer didn't even know how to pronounce it."----Althouse

What is it with the Althouse Family and pronunciation ? Mom's not exactly a social butterfly, and Son, by his own admission, is an introvert. Yet, they seem to, both, be obsessed with speech and dialect.

http://wordie.org/people/comments/jaltcoh


Love,
Maxine

Maxine Weiss said...

Calzone. Stallone. Ramone.

"In fact, in some parts of Italy, the dropping of final vowels is common."---New York Times

People that pronounce final vowels are pretentious and superficial.

dick said...

Every time I see Chuckie Schumer I think again that Al d'Amato had it right when he called him a putz.

SGT Ted said...

Translation: Rules can be broken as long as Democrats are victorious.

Thats the Democrat Party in a nutshell.

SGT Ted said...

Bush-McCain must be a shiney new talking point. Tie McCain to Bush, since W is termed out. Otherwise, they have to actually address the candidate running for office. This way they get to keep the BDS alive thru the election cycle.

MadisonMan said...

Sgt. Ted, you needn't be so restrictive. That's any political party in a nutshell.

SGT Ted said...

Yes, well the Dems are just so flagrant about it these days. No shame at all. The Repubs at least pretend a respect for rules.

And Schumer is one of the oiliest pols I have witness in some time. Everytime I hear him talk, I feel the need to shower off. If anyone on the street spoke to me with his tone, I'd deck him.

Maguro said...

"That's any political party in a nutshell."

Not the whigs. They were righteous.

former law student said...

That's nice for the Democrats. For those of us who vote the (wo)man and not the party, there's a hell of a lot of difference between the (terminal vowel not pronounced) cocue DLC retread Clinton and the beholden-to-no-one Obama.

Schumer's just threatening the Obamaphenomenom that they're gonna have to suck it up and back Hillary. However, I can vote for Maverick McCain whom W. hated with a white-hot passion in 2000.

What if they held a Democratic Presidential Campaign and nobody came?

The Drill SGT said...

Durbin and Schumer. Classic representatives of the Democratic party.

Spread Eagle ® said...

This way they get to keep the BDS alive thru the election cycle.

Hey, it's not just their strong suit, it's their only suit. So that's what they gotta go with.

Trooper York said...

Snow: It's the Clinton A.C.'s.
Cowboy: Think they forgot about the truce?
Vermin: No shit!
Ajax: Those lousy skin-headed Fucks!
(The Warriors, 1979)

Slim999 said...

"But let's say we're not there. Then Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have to sit down and come up with a process that both sides buy into and both sides will abide by."

That's a bunch of BS, but you should listen very closely to it, because Schumer is signalling that the Hillary camp (which he is in) isn't going to let Obama get nominated.

Dean, Clinton and Obama already sat down and decided what the process was going to be when the rules were laid out prior to the first caucus in Iowa.

Since that set of rules isn't leading to a Hillary nomination ... now Schumer wants Obama to sit back down and hash ou some new rules that would make it possible for Hillary to get the nomination.

The racism of these people is just appalling. Obama is going to win the nomination, and then have it stolen from him by racists inside his own party.

You know, for the good of the country, so that "we don't have another 4 years of Bush-McCain."

You will never, ever hear Dick Cheney mentioned in the same breath with George Bush again by a Democrat.

It's as if McCain has been Vice President for the last 8 years.

It's just sick what these people will do to get Bill Clinton back inside the White House, passing out cigars.

I have a sneaky suspicion that once African-Americans figure out they're getting this nomination stolen from them, they're going to riot furiously. I hope they don't burn down the convention hall.

Ralph said...

Schumer didn't mention the Dagger Pointed at the Heart of the Democratic Party?

I thought the French pronounced a final "f."

Elliott A said...

The people in the Dem party better be careful messing with Obama. South side Chicago pols have long memories and can be very vindictive. If Obama wins, he will be the head of the party for many years. Anyone who tried to screw him will be marganlized. Obama isn't going to let anyone change the rules or he may burn the convention center down. If they want a united party, Hillary should drop out now.

Stephen Snell said...

I used to know a guy whose father is a Dem Congressman and who told his son, "The most dangerous place in Washington is between Chuck Schumer and a microphone."

Seems apropos (say a-pra-pose, please).

For what it's worth, the Cong. hated Kerry and found Condit to be very creepy (so at least the guy was awake).

Zeb Quinn said...

Wasn't Chuck Schumer deliciously oily...?

No, he was unctuous.

Chip Ahoy said...

Bush-McCaine

Change

Bush-McCaine

We can do it

Bush-McCaine

Change

Bush-McCaine

We can do it

(repeat to ∞)

Ralph said...

No comment from Cedarford about Schumer?
The Wiktionary doesn't agree with you, Stephen. I've never heard it with a final "s", or clef without its "f."

Chip Ahoy said...

Please stop talking about the convention center burning down. It's a few blocks from where I live and it's rather new.

steeeeve said...

It's not racism unless you think the Clinton camp wouldn't equally screw over any white man or woman that got in her way.

Maxine Weiss said...

Long Beach, CA news:

http://www.dlisted.com/node/23738#comments

Well, almost Long Beach. Long Beach-adjacent ?

Beldar said...

Prof. A's question — "Wasn't Chuck Schumer deliciously oily on "Meet the Press" today?" — implies that there has ever been a time when he was not. I challenge the premise.

Beldar said...

(I'm a little sad that no one has called Sen. Schumer to account for the "each candidate"/"their self-interest" discrepancy either.

caplight said...

According to Wikipedia it is either
A roman à clef or roman à clé .

Jeff with one 'f' said...

Schmuck Chumer is how I pronounce my senior senator's name.

wlpeak said...

Well as anyone who can read music should tell you, it is Clef with an F

Rob said...

I once shook Chucky's hand at a festival and he seemed sketchy from a distance of an easy 10 feet away. That is more clearly sketchy than most politicians.

SMGalbraith said...

No, he didn't actually say, "The great epistemological issue"...?

Actually, I like Schumer.

Granted, you have to have an extra large shovel when you watch him.

Reminds me of Hatch's response to Schumer's questioning of Justice Roberts during the latter's confirmation hearings.

"Some [of Schumer's questions] I totally disagree with. Some I think are dumbass questions, between you and me. I am not kidding you. I mean, as much as I love and respect you, I just think that's true."

A stunned Schumer asked if he heard the chairman correctly, to which Hatch said yes. Again, Schumer asked Hatch if he would like to "revise and extend his remark," congressional speak for change his mind.

Hatch replied: "No, I am going to keep it exactly the way it is. I mean, I hate to say it. I mean, I feel badly saying it between you and me. But I do know dumbass questions when I see dumbass questions."

Maxine Weiss said...

Well, I wonder about the wisdom of leaving the Blog with nothing but all-political threads.

If you know you are going to be away from the Blog for a time, shouldn't you---for the sake of variety--- leave something other than politics, for readers to chew on?

What happened with Althouse and Reader I. Am. ??? Another contretemps? Goodness, first Althouse is battling Sippican Cottage, now we find she's also had a falling-out with Reader I.Am .

It seems these former Teacher's Pets turn to enemies very quickly around here.

Simon said...

Maxine, it isn't Reader_Iam, it's an impostor - note the different spelling.

Simon said...

Oh, and:

Maxine Weiss said...
"It seems these former Teacher's Pets turn to enemies very quickly around here."

Never going to happen here.

gail grimmel said...

http://obama4infanticide.blogspot.com/

Geoffrey Firmin said...

"Roman à clef" is most definitely pronounced without the "f".

Listen here.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/roman+a+clef

Maxine Weiss said...

Famous last words.

Sippican Cottage insisted he and Althouse were Bosom Buddies for life.

And they were, until the day when she froze him out. Things change rapidly around here. When it comes to the easily-irritated Althouse, I would be on my guard 24-7. She can turn on a dime, as her own kids found out when she tried to sabotage their Christmas.

Maxine Weiss said...

If you get too big for your britches, she'll try to undermine you.

That's why Ruth Anne, and Amba don't post as much. They don't want to provide too much competition, or take the focus off La Althouse.

Maxine Weiss said...

http://www.last.fm/listen/user/Maxineweiss/playlist

Dr. Ellen said...

Maxine and Reader.I.Am --

Pronunciation can be important, because it can tell you how long and thoroughly somebody has associated with an idea and the cloud of words hanging around it.

I don't want to be psychoanalyzed by some dude that studied Sigmund Frood. I don't want my power plants run by folk that say nook-yoo-lur. And I don't want my political wisdom from some bozo who doesn't rehearse the words his scriptwriter hands him.

Simon said...

Maxine, I know exactly why Ruth Anne hasn't posted much recently, and that's not the reason. I don't know what (if anything) happened with Sippican (and I don't have that estimation of my status), but I'm telling you how it is so far as I'm concerned. "You have it in your power to exile me to the Phantom Zone, Jor-El, but not to change how I feel for you..." As to getting too big for my britches, leave my weight out of it. I'm comfortably svelte.

Cake said...

This is one of those Althouse fallbacks when she has no real argument but wants to look learned.

Can someone "look" learned on a blog? Perhaps you meant something more along the lines of "wants to seem learned.

But hey, who am I to judge?

Cake said...

If you know you are going to be away from the Blog for a time, shouldn't you---for the sake of variety--- leave something other than politics, for readers to chew on?

Yet here you are, opining away in a steady froth of homespun wisdom.

It would seem that whatever subjects are presented, whether they be political in nature or not, you would find a way to trite things up.

Oh my.

Inspektor Friedrich said...

Dr Ellen and Simon: 'Maxine' and die neue Leser.bin.Ich are one and the same. 'Maxine' and many of the trolls around here are one and the same.

They're from what you might call Mockery Central, and are intended to degrade the conversation here to the point it becomes a joke. This is a hard left ploy to use soft trolling to oh so amusingly wreck this blog. Hard trolling is the sort of thing Luckyoldson used to do, but that asset finally became fully depreciated and was retired.

Althouse seems to be taking some steps, as I see that a number of comments with 'Maxine,' among others (including yours truly), have vanished. Much as I hate to see my own admittedly intemperate remarks evaporate, if some of 'Maxine' goes along with them, I won't mind.

Maxine Weiss said...

I haven't seen any of my comments vanish. So, if Althouse has her finger on the 'delete' trigger, she doesn't move very fast.

By the way, can someone please update this blog already? We've been on this same thread for an eternity, it seems.

somefeller said...

Hey, Inspektor, in this thread you intimated that you know how to track IP addresses as a commenter. Fen and I asked you to tell us (i.e.: prove to us) that you could do that, but got no answer. Since you may have missed that part of the thread and are now stating once again that various commenters are the same, I'd like to reiterate the question. How are you tracking IPs as a commenter? Or is that just a bluff?

Maxine Weiss said...

Simon: You don't know the epic story of the Sippican Cottage falling-out ??

It was Althouse's biggest contretemps yet.

What's contretemps?

Sippican went down in flames, and he's still licking his wounds. Stung for life.

He'll never get over it.

From Inwood said...

Gee, I thought internecine occurred only among the prepubescine in West Virginia or other parts of Appalachia, not in NY! What? That’s “incest”? Nevermind.

Actually, I had to listen to Bush 43 mispronunciations for years now from people who ignored any such similar mistakes by Democrats. So if Chuckie mispronounces something and none of the Right People hear it does it make a sound?

rhhardin: since you brought this up, when speaking the phrase describing truth masking as fiction, even if one wanted to sound more French than the French, why would one drop the "f" in “Clef”? (Why drop any consonant from a word in which convention requires it to be sounded, except with the final “X” in that cable news network which is not part of CNN or NBC?) Also it's "Roman" without an "s".

All this reminds me of Jimmy Breslin reporting on his having heard someone using the non-existent term “jackal bins” since he’d never heard of the actual term “Jacobins”.

TmjUtah said...

I'm going to sneak into the Dem convention and park a '72 Plymouth Newport sedan between the Illinois and New York delegations.

The back seat will be stuffed with Ancient Age bourbon whiskey and the cheapest canned beer I can find.

The unlocked trunk will be full of brickbats, pick axe handles, lead pipes, and two foot lengths of chain.

Just about the time the DNC chair begins to explain why Florida's and Michigan's superdelegates but not their delegates can't be counted to decide the issue by acclamation, I'll push the button that turns on the car alarm, with it's attendant honks, flashing lights, and siren.

Never let it be said that I never did anything for the Democrat party.

2008 is going to make Chicago '68 look like the summer stock version of "The Sound of Music".

I've already got my popcorn lined up.

smitty1e said...

Is it just me, or is all this thumb-wrestling about how to get the Florida/Michigan toothpaste back in the tube a completely negative statement about the Democratic party?
The Republican strategy is just to point out how the loser in the thumb-wrestling match has been given the "bonus plan", and you can't trust the Dems any more than you ever could.

Simon said...

Maxine Weiss said...
"I haven't seen any of my comments vanish. So, if Althouse has her finger on the 'delete' trigger, she doesn't move very fast."

You may have noticed that she's been very tolerant of your posts thusfar - the reason of which is the subject of much musing between me and some other commenters. We go on and on... Anyways. I don't know what the deal with Sippican is, and I'm Switzerland at best so far as such matters are concerned. If a declaration of intent to vote for Barack Obama didn't change my mind, it's hard to see what would.

Fen said...

Barack: If she wants a united party, Hillary should drop out now.

Hillary: You first. Besides, how will you run as a "uniter" if you can't even unite your own party?

John: Uh, Hillary? By "unite" he means for you to do what he wants.

Inspektor Friedrich said...

somefeller: I can't track IP addresses directly as a commenter. No one can. But you can use the Sitemeter to give you some excellent hints.  In this case, it was late on Feb. 5, and there were fewer and fewer people on.  I had been ragging on Maxine on this thread for quite a while that evening.  I was doing other work and amusing myself with odd comments.

I started turning other computers on, and finally wound up with three computers (two Mac OS X and one WinXP) with two separate internet connections and five browsers (2 Firefox, 2 Safari, and IE) open simultaneously.  By correlating the activity on the three or four Sitemeters I had open simultaneously with the activity in the comments, it became obvious from the sequence and timing that 'Maxine' and 'fstop' were coming from the same IP.  This is only possible if there are few visitors, because of the slowness and unreliability of the Sitemeter and the obvious chances for error with a large number of commenters.  If you have a small number of visitors, and only a few happen to comment on the same thread, it can be pretty obvious what's going on.  You do need to monitor your suspects simultaneously, though, refreshing pages constantly, so you'll need several browsers open at the same time.

While this is not incontrovertible evidence, like a server log, it seems pretty strong to me.  It's also hard to document, because you need quite a few screen shots sorted in order to demonstrate what's going on.  People can obviously use proxies and other IP masking techniques, but it appeared that the guard was down in Mockery Central that night at least, and I finally was able to get a peek behind the curtain.

As for comments vanishing, perhaps it's my short-term memory, but I distinctly remember recently telling 'Maxine' that God should damn her to hell, seriously. That little contretemps, not to mention a set-to this morning between Middle Class Guy and our perennial fave, 'Cyrus Pinkerton' seem to have gone up in a cloud of electrons. Anyone else notice?

Joan of Argghh! said...

If ever a man was more apt for Hillary than Bill, it would be Chuck Schumer. And if Bill keeps on like he's be going, Mr. Schumer just might be in Hillary's sights as the next star for her to hitch her wagon to.

Maxine Weiss said...

Inspektor: It might shock you to know, that I am about 85% of the commenters on this blog.

Just about all of the traffic Althouse gets is coming from me and my alter-egos.

Hilarious, ain't it?

Inspektor Friedrich said...

No, 'Maxine,' it just seems that way.

Maxine Weiss said...

Inspektor: I already explained this to you.

I'm sitting in a room filled with a dozen different servers that can be scrambled simultaneously. In fact, I've got so many control panels, wires, and cables coming from every which way....I even tripped over a few.

Just this morning one of my cables snapped and the whole place started smoking....

Inspektor Friedrich said...

Joan: You know, I had a very nice dinner tonight at a new Chinese restaurant a few blocks away. We know the owners, and had quite a lovely time sampling the excellent cuisine.

And then you had to come along and spoil it. How I'm going to get the image of Senators Schumer and Clinton in flagrante dilecto out of my mind, I don't know.

Ann Althouse said...

Inspector: Please email me the info. I use the Site Meter too and know how to figure out the IP addresses that way, but it can be time consuming.

Maxine: Improve now or you will be gone. I'm sick of your trolling, and it is trolling. It's a shame. You were once one of my favorite commenters, but you've really gone to hell.

Stephen Snell said...

Point of parliamentary procedure:

When I said "say a-pro-pose" for "apropos" I was being facetious, in keeping with Schumer's flub. Jeeze, tough crowd...

Clyde said...

"Defeating George Bush" is one of Schumer's main goals for this election? What, did they repeal the 22nd Amendment when I wasn't looking?

Jeebus. Dubya's going home to Crawford no matter which party wins in November.

rhhardin said...

Young males invent competitive games spontaneously, like how high up the wall you can kick with both feet.

There will follow immediately a superior performance and dispute about rules, and then a falling out.

These rules are not actually rules, like you'd have in baseball for example, because it's not a perfected game.

Some Schmuck said...

Well, I think this is going to make an excellent campaign commercial down the road.

"Democrats! They don't even keep the promises they made to their own party. What do you think is going to happen to those promises they made to YOU."

Oh yes. Chucked can expect to meet that "self-interest" quote again.

Of course it will be considered "dirty politics" by the media.

Mortimer Brezny said...

I guess Maxine is a guy.

Bill4500 said...

Palladian posted: "[W]hat is [Shumer] implying about his party's candidates, that they're going to beat each other to death with clubs? Now that would be quite a debate format..."

My money's on Hillary if it ever comes to clubs...

rhhardin said...

I like Maxine. She should do a book Gamesmanship for Women.

Some tangents aren't so great, but who's great all the time.

Do we judge Poe from For Annie?

Roger said...

Inspektor F: I didnt think a lot of your suggestion that Amanda marcotte and Cyrus were one and the same until that most interesting thread popped up re John Edwards. In all of Mr.P's commenting he doesnt much address American politics (other than defending the Clenis from time to time). But talking about Edwards must have raised a red flag and he rose to the topic in a way only someone intimately associated with the Edwards campaign would. short of content and long on invective. Talking points in hand. I think you just may be on to something re a marcotte sockpuppet. Some content analysis to go along with your IP analysis.

Pogo said...

Criminey. I hardly have time anymore to post. Who has the time not only to post but to post in a false troll persona meant only to be divisive and controlling?

I usually skip Maxine just because he/she is so goddamned mean. Cyrus was infuriating until Revenant clued me in on the passive aggressive.

I just don't understand the point of their existence in blogs. So miniscule in scope and intent. Why? To what end?

They are sand in the internet's swimtrunks.

bearbee said...

Oily politician

(1)

(2) post-internecine

Ralph said...

I wouldn't have thought Marcotte was clever enough to disguise herself as a member of the Patriarchy.

I noticed Schumer's pronoun disagreement in the post title immediately, but I hate the sound of "his or her" even more, even though it was actually appropriate in this case.

former law student said...

I don't want my power plants run by folk that say nook-yoo-lur.

There's a term for that in linguistics that I forget, that explains why nooc you lur is a perfectly reasonable way to pronounce a tongue-twister. I permit Cheeseheads to call their native state either 'Sconsin or Wiss-sconsin, and I don't shudder when Cream Citizens omit the 'l' in Mi-wau-kee, so I'm gonna give the nuclear engineers a pass.

Trooper York said...

Chucky: What would Martha Stewart say?
Tiffany: Fuck Martha Stewart! Martha Stewart can kiss my shiny plastic butt! I've spent all day over a hot stove, making cookies and making Swedish meatballs, and for what? A man who doesn't appreciate me! A man who can't even wash one fucking dish! A man who isn't even a man at all where it counts if you get my drift! -to Jade- Believe me honey, plastic is no substitute for a nice hunk of wood!
Chucky: I didn't hear her complaining last night.Any guy who is a big hunk of plastic is probably battery operated to get a reaction out of you in bed. And by the way, where the hell did you learn to bake?
(Bride of Chucky,1998)

Middle Class Guy said...

Rob said...
I once shook Chucky's hand at a festival and he seemed sketchy from a distance of an easy 10 feet away. That is more clearly sketchy than most politicians.

Did you count your ingers afterwards?

Middle Class Guy said...

Inspektor Friedrich said...
...not to mention a set-to this morning between Middle Class Guy and our perennial fave, 'Cyrus Pinkerton' seem to have gone up in a cloud of electrons. Anyone else notice?



Please tell me what set-to I was involved in this morning with anyone? What disappeared? I was not on here until a few minutes ago.

You sir are a liar, a charlatan, and a fraud. And a very poor one, at that. Of course that is the worst and lowest form of liar.

Maybe others will let you get away with being a liar, but I will not. I have zero tolerance for people like you.

Paddy O. said...

I think Maxine and the Inspector are the same person. Fstop, lucky, and the rest had a different psychology. They were aggressive in order to get a response, suggesting an adolescent need for dominance coupled with the adolescent reality of real-life passivity. So they could indulge in an anonymous forum and feel the supposed thrill of argument without any real possibility of shame. Commenting for them is like playing a video game on the easiest level. They get a thrill, but only because they can't survive real challenge. They don't accept standard etiquette or rules in discussion and instead seek only to dominate. But because they are adolescent in mentality, this attempt becomes increasingly forced and shrill... thus more sad.

Maxine, and the Inspektor, however, are much more schoolmarmish, wanting to dominate through often tangential enforcement of rules. It doesn't matter what people say, for the most part, but rather what they do. It is all about decorum and standards and some supposed order of things. Maxine is also very attentive to seemingly extraneous aspects of any given post, zooming in with sharp, if sometimes irritating, observation, much like the old fashioned teacher who doesn't comment on the argument in the essay, but does mark down for beginning sentences with "and" or not always using a comma in the right place.

The enforcement of some, oft arbitrary, rule becomes the primary motivation. Fstop and the others are primarily motivated by perceived alpha male achievement. Maxine could care less who is the alpha male, as long as they don't pee on the flowers, but keep to the lawn.

Inspektor Friedrich said...

Middle Class Guy:  I am sorry.  I referred to the wrong date.  I was just re-reading this thread yesterday morning, where you, in fact, did have what might be called a set-to with Cyrus Pinkerton about John Edwards.  You may think of me as a charlatan if you like, but I'm basically sympathetic to your point-of-view and mean you no disrespect.  I just have a habit of reading these threads when I have time, and some days go by without my having the time to do it, and then I read and re-read them.  Sorry for the mix-up.

In my case, I distinctly remember telling Maxine to go to Hell in no uncertain terms recently, and that has indeed vanished.  I use the "ScribeFire" extension on Firefox, and have a record of it, complete with misspelled "read" for "real."  It's now nowhere to be found on Althouse, and a Google search doesn't turn it up, either.  I would really like to know what's going on here.  Perhaps I shouldn't be so concerned about trolls if this place is starting to become a house of mirrors.

PaddyO:  You may be right, in that I value decorum, but I think your psychoanalysis is way off.  Maxine plays a passive-aggressive, increasingly venomous character, who has said some truly vile things in an offhanded way.  You may see for yourself what she writes and interpret it any way you want.  My view is that 'she' is horrible.  I think Pogo and other commenters may have similar opinions.

I'm not here just now to discuss the sins of Maxine, which are manifest, and about which Althouse can make up her own mind.  I am a longtime fan of Althouse, and have commented sporadically, but I am definitely NOT Maxine or any other troll.  Althouse asked the question on the thread linked above if 'Titus' and 'Maxine' were possibly the same person.  This inspired me to share what I had learned the other week, that very possibly 'Maxine' and 'fstopfitzgerald' were the same.  I would not have said anything if Althouse had not asked a related question.  And for those of you who think I may be a charlatan, you are perfectly free to do your own research and confirm or deny what I say.  But please remember that I am only engaging in informed speculation.

But at least it is informed speculation, unlike some of the other crap I'm reading around here just now.

Pogo said...

Schumer is the Maxine of the Senate.

AJ Lynch said...

I attended a graduation at Fordham University in 2004 (Tim Russsert gave the keynote) and Schumer actually crashed the ceremony. By that I meaning he was not listed as a speaker but got up and grabbed 10-15 minutes of our time anyway.

From Inwood said...

Prof A

We're off the point so let me say that there's a photographer who calls himself "f-stop Fitzgerald", he having matured before the age of the digital camera and computer, who did the photos for a book with Ken Follett called "Pillars of The Almighty" (I’m looking at it now, which photos are reminiscent of your close-up building photos, though yours are, of course unique & his are unique (suck up, suck up).

Inspektor Friedrich said...

Not to belabor this, but in case I wasn't perfectly clear in my response to Middle Class Guy above, what happened is that I lost track of his comments with Cyrus Pinkerton on this thread.  I thought they had been deleted, especially after I did a Google search to try to find it.  I was wrong.  I just couldn't find them.  I made an honest mistake, and I am sorry.  But I definitely am not a liar.

I definitely cannot find my own comments to Maxine that I am sure I went through the motions of posting, however.  I would not blame Althouse for deleting them, as they were very intemperate.

This is an example of why you should not try to insert anything extraneous in your remarks.  If they are wrong or inaccurate it undermines your whole point. 

p.t. fogger said...

Once, I worked for a Democratic congressman. During this time, Schumer was in Congress, but in the House of Representative. One day, fairly early on the job, I walked onto the House floor looking for my boss's chief of staff, who I found talking to a small group of people that included Democrat and Republican congresspersons. Schumer was among them, though I did not yet know his name or his party (though the context made clear he was a rep). After a few minutes of listening to him talk, I thought to myself, "I hope this guy isn't on our side. He's a creep." Alas!! He was.

Inspektor Friedrich said...

Wow. This is very strange.  Althouse didn't delete my comment as I thought she did, either.  I didn't remember just what thread it was on, so I Googled the nasty phrase I used, limiting the search to Althouse.  Nothing.  Googled my name.  A number of hits, but NOT on this thread.  Googled my name AND Maxine.  Several hits, but not THAT one.  I poked around trying to find it, but couldn't, so I assumed it was gone, and used that 'detail' and the non-missing Middle Class Guy contretemps with Cyrus as passing illustrations of how Althouse sometimes deletes bad content.

They were both wrong.

Several lessons:

1.  Chatty little details added for color need to be checked just as assiduously as your main point.

2.  Google is not totally reliable for finding blog content, even on relatively high-traffic blogs such as this.

3.  Keep an independent record of not only what you say in comments (which I do), but exactly WHERE you say it, 'cause Google won't always hold your hand.

Damn.

Ann Althouse said...

I think Google may not search the comments, but you're right you can't rely on it, even for the front page stuff. I get all the comments in my gmail account, and the search within that is much more reliable. That's why I was able to find the comment you thought I deleted.

somefeller said...

Inspektor: Thanks for the clarification on the IP issue, per my request. While I'm not sure you're correct on your conclusions, that's some good detective work.

richard mcenroe said...

I wonder how much mileage Schumer and other Democrats get out of "Bush-McCain."

The ANSWERbots I countermarch every week in studio city are already trying this one on.

I've making up a sign that says, "You're gonna miss George..."

smitty1e said...

>You're gonna miss George.
The Russian proverb about not wishing for a new king?