June 21, 2006

"If any of us blog on this right now, we fuel the story. Let's starve it of oxygen."

TNR publishes a message "Kos sent earlier this week to 'Townhouse,' a private email list comprising elite liberal bloggers" and mocks their "sheep-like obedience to his dictat."

I wonder how much this sort of thing goes on. I'm not on any private email lists like that and have never seen any behind-the-scenes plotting about what should or should not be blogged about. And I wonder who's the leaker among the elite bloggers.

Now, the underlying story -- the one in need of oxygen starvation -- is even more disturbing than the notion that seemingly independent bloggers are "sheep."
Are Jerome Armstrong and Markos Moulitsas (of the famous Daily Kos) engaged in a pay-for-play scheme in which politicians who hire Armstrong as a consultant get the support of Kos? That's the question that's been bouncing around the blogosphere ever since The New York Times's Chris Suellentrop broke the news last Friday about a 2000 run-in Armstrong had with the Securities and Exchange Commission over alleged stock touting.
Trouble in blogland.

UPDATE: The Suellentrop piece that should be getting a lot of a attention is behind the TimesSelect wall -- and it's a blog. Crazy! Kos and Armstrong may have found a catastrophic way to screw up blogging, but the NYT has found a supremely boneheaded one. Anyway, here's the TimesSelect link if you can get there. And here's Mickey Kaus ridiculing TimesSelect for keeping Suellentrop from getting credit for his scoop. And watch him talk about "Kosola" on "BloggingHeads."

ANOTHER UPDATE: Glenn Reynolds quotes the leaked email message -- which TNR called "the blogosphere's smoke-filled backroom" -- and writes: "As usual, I wasn't invited, but then I don't smoke that stuff." But don't you suspect that if they have an elite private list, we must have an elite private list? I note that I get a link on that post, my second Instapundit link of the day. Don't you readers think Glenn must have an email list going out, telling the minions to open up the oxygen tanks and get that fire going? Or do you think: Email? Who needs email! Email is for losers. This blogging thing is all done with links. It's utterly transparent. Anyone can look at the patterns and say whatever they want about how bloggers behave. Emailing behind the scenes is lame... and so embarrassing if it gets out.

AND: But if we did have a list, what would we call it? Not "Townhouse." And why did they call it "Townhouse"? What's the connotation there? Less of a smoke-filled backroom, more of an exclusive private residence.

58 comments:

Dave said...

dictat?

Or diktat?

I always thought it was the latter...

Sanjay said...

Yeah, but their explanation for the lack of a story stinks. Mickey Kaus had been commenting on how the stuff wasn't getting play in the mainstream media either (even Suellentrop's stroy was behind the wall).

On the other hand it's not totally clear to me it would make a bang given that much play. I mean, it sure ain't illegal and my guess is most Americans feel like political consultants of verious stripes more or less work like this anyway (and that idea writ large is why "culture of corruption" type attacks rile up the electorate a little but mostly get a big yawn: rightly or wrongly there's a bit of a "they're all like that" feel).

On the other hand I suppose the people who'd be most incensed are the wild-eyed true believer partisans (of whichever stripe) who will be upset that Kos is so impure. So I imagine this could both cost Kos big-time, and not be much of a story).

Wow: "duxtbg."

Ann Althouse said...

Here's what Kaus says on BloggingHeads: "It's morally corrupt if you're a political activist and you say something you don't believe because somebody's paying you money."

At the least, it undermines the credibility of a blogger, doesn't it?

Verification word: dkxboom. The ex-boom of a blog called Daily Kos?

RogerA said...

I am with sanjay--this is a story that will tear up the lefty blogosphere but will have almost no impact on the rest of the "world."

And as far as blogger credibility: depends on the blogger and his/her agenda. My wife is driven to distraction because I participate on blogs--she asks why, and I tell her its like writing letters to the editor, and the editor, or the readers respond--how good is that?

I dont regard bloggers as a source of truth--athough I have gotten some great insights from many bloggers--I regard them as a source of intellectual stimulation.

I think this blogosphere contretemps will be an interesting one to watch.

37921 said...

That is too rich ... maybe it explains why Kos is always accusing conservative bloggers of taking marching orders from Karl Rove. He thinks that's the way the world works.

Greg D said...

Damn you, 37921, you bewat me too it! "Gosh, we get, and obey, 'marching orders' all the time. So of course the republicans must do the same!"

:-)

Sanjay said...

Bloggingheads --- I watch about 2% of them essentially because I never have the big chunk of time, but they're weirdly compelling. When Kaus takes a sip from his big BIG 7-11 coffee cup we all cheer over here.

AJD said...

Yawn.

I guess that folks whose whole life is about blogging think that this kind of story is fascinating and vital.

Word verification: KOSENVY

Simon said...

Ack, this sucks: I have to do that which is most distasteful: I have to defend Kos. Look, this is not that big of a deal. What The Idiot ctually said was this:

"Jerome can't talk about it now since the case is not fully closed. But once it is, he'll go on the offensive. That should be a couple of months off. My request to you guys is that you ignore this for now. It would make my life easier if we can confine the story. Then [in a couple of months], once Jerome can speak and defend himself, then I'll go on the offensive, and anyone can pile on. If any of us blog on this right now, we fuel the story. Let's starve it of oxygen." (Parenthetical ommitted; emphasis added).

It seems pretty clear to me that Kos is basically saying "look, there's nothing to these remarks, but there is legal action pending that means we can't talk more fully about it." It seems to me that Kos isn't trying to bury the story, he's just trying to delay the fight over it until he's free to speak freely about it. Now, if two months come and go and no explanation is forthcoming, then sure, go after the story like rabid dogs. But it seems to me that he's politely requesting a continuance from some friends, and I don't think that's a problem. This story shouldn't be forgotten or buried, or even starved of oxygen, but I don't think this exactly rises to an attempt to suppress the story.

I've long thought Kos is an idiot, and his site a cancer, but I don't think he has ever given anyone any reason whatsoever to question his personal integrity or the honesty of his commitment to his (gravely flawed) cause. Cut the guy some slack.

Balfegor said...

It seems to me that Kos isn't trying to bury the story, he's just trying to delay the fight over it until he's free to speak freely about it.

Oh yes. That worked so well for Karl Rove.

Mr. Snitch said...

It's like he said, he's an asshole. [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0601.wallace-wells.html] So, OK, he's acting like an asshole. Is anyone surprised?

alikarimbey said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
PatCA said...

I haven't been following it too closely, but how can a case be "not fully" closed?

I have an inkling we will see this Jerome fellow on the beach in Rio some time soon.

DaveG said...

It seems that the only statement I can ever seem to come up with for all-things-Kos is "screw him."

I wonder why that is.

Balfegor said...

Re: Patca
I haven't been following it too closely, but how can a case be "not fully" closed?

This is an SEC matter, right?

Often, SEC cases are resolved not through a court trial, but through a settlement process, under which the subject of the SEC investigation undertakes to do this and that and so on, so that he will never trouble the investing public again. These undertakings may still be in progress, or they may be in negotiations about whether they are finished to the SEC's satisfaction, etc. Alternatively, the SEC is kind of undermanned, and it may be the case that they simply haven't accorded this matter a high priority, so the investigation is still wrapping up, years later, even though the primary substantive results of the investigation are known. Really, there's all kinds of reasons it might not yet be "fully closed."

SteveR said...

What's the old saying.. If you see a situation you don't understand (0 for 19 or 1 for 20 whatever) look for the financial interest. Anybody can pick a winner, but you got be real sharp to pick a loser and get paid to it.

WV: ojnethl O. J. Simpson's web site in hell.

jpe said...

But for Kos's email, does anyone seriously think lefty blogs would get fired up about this anyways?

Ernst Blofeld said...

There's an interesting misdirection in Kos' letter. He claims he can't talk about it because of Armstrong's legal entanglement with the SEC. But that's not responsive to the political "pay for play" allegations, which involve Armstrong being hired by Warner, tool of the satanic DLC, and Warner receiving positive treatment by Kos. That can be addressed independently of the SEC document.

BTW, the SEC document mentions Armstrong's address as Seaside, Oregon, a resort and vacation village. The document was filed in April, admittedly the off-season, and perhaps it is his parent's house, but it's still suggestive of not being a poor grad student. (There are no universities nearby.)

BTW, remember Kos' pending declaration of war against the DLC? His infamous post said "two more weeks before we take them on, head on." That was on August 22, 2005. Apparently Mark Warner hired Armstrong in August, 2005. The exact date of the hiring would be interesting to know.

Rob said...

"I feel nothing... They aren’t ... there trying to help the people make [the world] a better place. They are there ... for profit. Screw them."

Oh, irony... what a whore you are.

kmg4 said...

If you really peer deeply into the leftist mind, you will find that an 'the end justifies the means' psychology is dominant.

Nothing matters - truth, facts, even the physical safety of others. Nothing.

Jacques Cuze said...

Do you actually have any details?

According to the TNR, in 2000, two years before DailyKos was started, Armstrong got into some trouble with the SEC. And because of that according to the TNR, Armstrong and Kos are now engaged in a pay-for-play.

That's a non-sequitur.

How does B follow A?

Do you have any details, or just the usual Althouse smear? Have any politicians fessed up? Do any of the journalists have any evidence? Has the FEC said anything about this?

Anyone? Anyone? Althouse?

Are you really just upset that the popular girl isn't on any of these lists?

BurbankErnie said...

Ernst asked:

" Apparently Mark Warner hired Armstrong in August, 2005. The exact date of the hiring would be interesting to know."

According to MyDD, he announced his disclosure on August 20th, 2005.
Maybe it was all coordinated to up the price from the DLC.... who knows.

Ernst Blofeld said...

Actually, a Zephyr Teachout, a Dean consultant and director of internet operations, said that they hired Kos and Armstrong to keep them on their side and ensure positive coverage during the 2004 election. There was no allegation that kos/Armstrong knew this was the/a reason they got hired, but maybe they've gotten smarter about that in the last couple years.

Sanjay said...

Well, Kos has given us reason to question his personal ethics actually. I consider myself a left-winger (and live in Berkeley where I have seen the little weasel hold court) but I stopped reading him pretty much cold when he did his little "screw them" over the deaths and mutilation of civilian contractors in Iraq.

(Truth guiltily be told -- but now and then over the past year when things are slow, I do peek over there --- it's a big clearinghouse of stuff).

Quxxo is flat goofy, and doesn't link to TNR for that reason. Armstrong's had ethical problems. _And_ Armstrong and Kos are in a situation which could be described as a pay to play, and would be scandalous if a politician did it. But it's not a "one follows from the other" thing. It's a point a, point b thing. Without Armstrong's old SEC issues the payola issue is still there (and in fact Kaus raised it before, as far as I can tell, being aware of the SEC issues.

Why quxxo is trying to say, everyone's saying the two are linked when they don't follow, is beyond me, since it just gives you one more reason to question Armstrong. It's weird. So I take back my takeback to Professor Althouse: your trolls _are_ in fact, weird and wonderful.

Comment verification: "yebme." Yep, it's me.

JCJim said...

Move along here......nothing to see


or perhaps it should be "Ignore that man behind the curtain" ?

Elizabeth said...

Ann, in your update, who are "we" and who are "they"?

Charlie (Colorado) said...

I think the 5-digit commenter is on to something; I've suspected for a long time that one strong way to figure out what is up among the left's activists is to see what they're accusing the right of doing. It makes operfect sense that the reason there's a constant murmur about the right-wing conspiracy --- which, if it exists, must not be very effective considering some of the things going on on the right recently --- is because they're aware that that's the way they do it.

WWB said...

The list is named for a bar in the Dupont Circle neighborhood of DC, I believe favored by Stoller (who I'm pretty sure is the list's creator).

A number of DC Dem bloggers have held meetings, or perhaps more plausibly happy hours there before.

It's not a bad bar, but if you're on 17th & R, the much better Fox & Hounds is just a block away.

highcotton said...

As a frequent reader who hasn't posted here before, I find my curiosity driving me out of the woodwork today. Perhaps someone with legal expertise can clear up my confusion.

When I first read Mickey Kaus's comments, it really seemed like a non-story. A few blogs had more details on the SEC lawsuit, but it was like following the trail a slug leaves -- a little slimy, but no more than you'd normally expect. This private email has changed my opinion entirely, though.

Tom Maguire at JustOneMinute did a follow-up post, with all the legal documents, etc. (Sorry, but I can't seem to access his site right now to provide a link.) If I read them correctly, Armstrong entered a plea of 'nolo contendere', and one of the stipulations he agreed to was that he would never claim that the charges against him were false or misleading or without merit or any of that stuff. In other words, he broke the law but the powers-that-be decided to let him skate. Not worth the time and money to prosecute, but they weren't about to let him bad-mouth them afterwards. (This is strictly a layperson's take. Feel free to correct/chastise my interpretation as you see fit.)

So, here's my question to you lawyers (finally!): Isn't that a Randy Travis-type pact Armstrong made with the SEC? As in "Forever and Ever, Amen"?? Even if the case isn't officially closed, Kos's claim that Armstrong CAN and WILL be free to come out swinging in a few months is total misrepresentation, isn't it?

Two possibilities occur to me: 1) Markos is pretty nervous about the reaction of 'elite' left-wing bloggers if this story develops traction, and he's taking some serious steps to head it off at the pass; or 2) I've drifted into Oliver Stone territory. LOL

Tim Sisk said...

The way the SEC thing connects to the pay or play is that Armstrong was accused of doing with stocks what he is now accused of doing with candidates. The SEC charges came because Armstrong was pumping up stocks on some website while being secretly paid by the companies to do it. The suggestion is that this is part of a swarmy pattern. In the case of the candidates, it wouldn't be illegal but it would be immoral.

Kos maybe unfairly tagged with a lot of this because of his previous business relationsihp with Armstrong (that has apparently been severed). There is an interesting 180 degree turn around regarding an Ohio congressional race endorsement when Armstrong became employed by one of the candidates. Until Kos completely distances himself from Armstrong there will always be questions about how "genuine" Kos' endorsements might be even as he denies being a paid consultant.

What little he has provided by way of response to all this seems to be kind of evasive, which probably doesn't help his case. The fact that he seems to be deliberately not responding ("starve" via Townhouse email) only encourages these kind of speculations.

Sanjay said...

That's being too nice to Kos, Sisk. Yeah, Ohio is the only place where you find Kos doing a 180 where Armstrong is involved. But as I recall Dean supposedly hired Kos (and Armstrong) for good press, and in the Warner and Corzine cases the actual Kos-hyping happened _after_ Armstrong was brought on board, in classic pay-to-play fashion.

That's not to deny (1) it could be a coincidence that the candidates Kos plugs are the ones who hire Armstrong and (2) Kos is well within his rights to support guys who pay off his friends. But as Kaus originally pointed out if a politician did this it would stink mightily.

crosspatch said...

The suggestion is that this is part of a swarmy pattern. In the case of the candidates, it wouldn't be illegal but it would be immoral.

I believe the smarmier issue is "get in line and stay in line or I cut off your advertizing revenue" angle. Or possibly "get in line and stay in line or we cut you out of our secret cabal of 'cool kids'".

sonicfrog said...

Ernst noted:

"BTW, remember Kos' pending declaration of war against the DLC? His infamous post said "two more weeks before we take them on, head on." That was on August 22, 2005. Apparently Mark Warner hired Armstrong in August, 2005. The exact date of the hiring would be interesting to know."

Yea I waited for that shoe to drop also. And I waited, and waited, and waited....

Ann Althouse said...

Elizabeth: "They" is (obviously) the "Townhouse" group of elite bloggers. "We" is the alternate group I was joking about that would include Glenn and whoever people would imagine are in league with him.

Boghie said...

Kos,

I would like to be the first to welcome you and Armstrong to the Townhouse Lobbyist Club...

TLC has helped many politicians - in return for a little friendship at a later date.

Thank you Markos.

And, you don't even have to win!!!

Johnny Nucleo said...

No one loathes Kos more than I, but I don't think the payola story is a big deal. If it's illegal, it shouldn't be.

What is a big deal is the Secret List. The Secret List is funny and creepy. The Secret List is gold.

(I know it's not secret and it's not really a list, but Secret List sounds better than Private Communique or Private Email or Lefty Blogger Cabal Strategy Memo. Let's try to get Secret List out there. But let's be cautious. Let's keep it a secret.)

Ernst Blofeld said...

Maybe it was all coordinated to up the price from the DLC

Maybe getting kos to call off the declaration of war on the DLC was the first task the DLC-aligned Warner gave to Armstrong.

Ernst Blofeld said...

The SEC stuff might go to the character of Armstrong, but the pay for play charges can be addressed without kos/Armstrong saying anything legally sensitive about the SEC matter.

Tim Sisk said...

When I commented I was responding to jacques cuze. I had forgotten the jc was quxxo reborn! I wouldn't have bothered had I made the connection.

Speaking of quxxo, what is with this weird obsession with Ann? An the blog Altmouse? Isn't it a bit creepy and sad to spend hours of your life trying to prove that one specific person is wrong (about everything!)? Will your life's mission be somehow fulfilled if this one person (Ann) were to suddenly say, "you know you are right, I'm wrong, I agree with everything you say." And at what point do you realize that all of the investment has been for naught? The popular girl isn't interested in you. Who has that kind of time? If I dislike or disagree with a person that passionately, I generally do everything that I can to disengage rather than engaging with them. Is it masochism or sadism that motivates you?

Thank God, I don't spark that kind of adulation.

Don't know what to do with this word verification: slakox

Tim Sisk said...

Rereading my previous comment, I think it may strike a tone that I didn't intend. So to be clear, I don't mean to attack quxxo/jc personally when I wrote what I wrote. I intended it be more along the lines of "Hey think about how much time your wasting engaging and interacting with a person it appears that you either dislike or who stubbornly disagrees with you." Wouldn't you be happier if you took a step back?

I just worry about people in general who spend so much time being caught up with things that make them unhappy. (Which is why I gave up following my favorite college football team. They almost always disappointed me. Why spend so much time obsessing about them?)

Ha! I just struck a blow for sports metaphors on the Althouse blog.

Elizabeth said...

This is starting to look like a big pile of crap. Not a surprise, with TNR as the source. Doesn't look like they've done much interviewing of any of these liberal bloggers. So much for confirming information with multiple sources. You know, journalism. Meanwhile, what's the approved topic over at Jammies Media tomorrow?

buck turgidson said...

I was shocked that Ann did not get the "Townhouse" connection. Haven't you ever heard of "Townhall.com", Ann? You know, that brainchild of the Heritage Foundation that supplies the RIGHTY blogosphere with its talking points? And not just the blogosphere--the media too. In fact, most right-wing rumors that have circulated over the past six-eight years (including Swift Boaters), got their origin on one of Heritage Foundation sites, including Townhall.com.

Personally, I believe it is idiotic for any blogger with any pretense to credibility to blog on any topic solely because someone sent out a memo. But why should bloggers be any different from radio and TV talking heads like Hannity or Krauthammer?

altoids1306 said...

As they say, the cover-up is worse than the crime. The "corruption", or whatever it is, as Kaus says, might not even be illegal.

What's embarrassing, and what's "bloggable", is that Kos has a mailing list of elite liberal bloggers working together to squash the story.

So what? True, so what - but it certainly contradicts the projected image of a spontaneous, grassroots organization transformed into a political movement. It would be like a movie star picking her nose during an interview. Nothing illegal, just the utter destruction of a cultivated image.

Wickedpinto said...

Dear Women that I have slept with in earlier years?:

I have been accused of being an unpleasent sexual partner, and while you MIGHT agree with it, can we please stand off on reporting this information until I have convinced my current lady to say "I Do?" I'm closely attached to her, and really care, but if she finds out I'm a "dead Lay" that might harm my argument to the otherwise.

Out of respect, and out of allegiance, please, withold all clearly validated arguments about my basic physical incompetance, until there is no other choice, but to accept me?

Thank you,

complete loser"

knoxgirl said...

Kos' whole schtick is that his site is driven at the grassroots level, by the dedication and contributions of the "little people" ... if it comes out it's driven by paid endorsements, well, that's gonna hurt.

I can't believe people are jumping on this thread all mad because Ann's writing about this story. Is Kos so inviolable? This confirms my suspicions that he has some jedi mind trick that he does on people: "you must give me money and loyalty, despite my dismal track record..."

Ann Althouse said...

Elizabeth said..."This is starting to look like a big pile of crap. Not a surprise, with TNR as the source. Doesn't look like they've done much interviewing of any of these liberal bloggers. So much for confirming information with multiple sources. You know, journalism. Meanwhile, what's the approved topic over at Jammies Media tomorrow?"

What's with the TNR slam? That's just weird. As is bringing up Pajamas Media as an indication of organization on what you perceive as my side. I was a prominent critic of PM and got slammed by various PM types for it. (But no one ever emailed me and told me to be nice. The whole thing was in the open, on the blogs.)

As to the Townhall/Townhouse similarity, while I'm familiar with Townhall, I think it would be idiotic for lefties to play off Townhall with Townhouse. Townhall connotes an open public meeting and hence democracy. A townhouse is a rich person's city dwelling, symbolizing elitism and aristocracy.

AllenS said...

"A townhouse is a rich person's city dwelling, symbolizing elitism and aristocracy"

Bingo.

Old Dad said...

Just more evidence that Kos is not ready for the bigs.

He's got a very popular blog--good on him, but a kingmaker he is not.

He's a pay day for politicians.

Netroots, nutroots, bah.

Elizabeth said...

Ann, I'm well aware of your history with Pajamas Media, and didn't make that comment to associate you with them, but to point out that bloggers being organized isn't anything new. TNR has a dog in the hunt, and I don't think their journalism practices are sound if they're not interviewing bloggers supposedly under Kos' marching orders.

Elizabeth said...

I should add that I am not just aware of, but respect your position regarding Pajamas Media. Wasn't there a story recently about someone stepping out of their association with them, out of not wanting to be told what to blog about? I believe this is about two weeks ago, and at the time I felt it was a good support for your decision.

Mary said...

Ann, in your update, who are "we" and who are "they"?

"We" is the alternate group I was joking about that would include Glenn and whoever people would imagine are in league with him.
...
As is bringing up Pajamas Media as an indication of organization on what you perceive as my side.
-----
So, if I've got this straight:

You may, or may not, be in bed with this group, but you're definitely not wearing pajamas! That is a probably a pretty good marketing strategy...

So what was the cat's name? I am thinking it may have something to do with your talking on the phone when petting it, and your voice and tone not being directed at the animal. An indoor/outdoor cat? Or it may just be old. Are the rabbits still around? The best animals, in my book, aren't domesticized and don't let you "pet" them.

Ann Althouse said...

Mary: The cat's name is Sam. And I know from past experience -- never talking on the phone before -- that cat acts like it wants to be petted but then tries to bite you. I usually avoid petting it, but did it anyway. Talking on the phone may have slowed my reaction time. I've just missed getting bitten by that cat before.

The point about the size of cats is a great one. It made me picture a regular domesticated cat the size of a St. Bernard. I pictured it walking around in my house -- quite terrifiying!

Jacques Cuze said...

What's with the TNR slam? It shows how little you have done your homework.

TNR is part of the warhawk dem coalition, like you yourself claim to be.

Kos, et. al., are part of the reality based, anti-Iraq-war coalition.

TNR and Kos have been beating each other up for years. Strange that you wouldn't know this or acknowledge it. It is definitely part of the story. Objective TNR is not.

michael a litscher said...

Mary said...

**Raise your hand if you're being paid to shill for this administration and are using this blog as a tool.**
8:09 AM, June 19, 2006


You know, I'm beginning to understand why the lefties assume us right-wingers must be paid shills.

watchlivestreaming said...

Popular resort areas

watchlivestreaming said...

furniture88

onherveleger said...

Dsquared Clothing Dsquared Hoodies Dsquared Jeans Dsquared Shoes Dsquared Sweater Dsquared T Shirt Dsquared Belt Dsquared Women Heels Shoes Dsquared Cap Dsquared Jacket Dsquared Polo Shirt Dsquared Shirt Dsquared Pants Dsquared Swim Dsquared Coat Moncler Doudoune Moncler Shoes Moncler Vest Moncler Coat Moncler Jacket Moncler Hoodies Moncler Sweater Moncler Polo Shirt Moncler Down Jacket Moncler Boots Moncler Cap Moncler Down Jacket Moncler Pants Moncler Shorts Moncler Kids Belstaff Leather Belstaff Bag Belstaff Leather Jacket Belstaff Leather Jacket Men

onherveleger said...

Belstaff Leather Jacket Women Belstaff Women Jacket Tory Burch Shoes Tory Burch Tote Bag Tory Burch Wallet Tory Burch Flat Shoes Tory Burch Sandals Tory Burch Suede Shoes Tory Burch Boots Tory Burch Heels Shoes Tory Burch Wedge Shoes Tory Burch Flip Flops Tod's Shoes Tod's Ballet Shoes Tod's Boots Tod's Fall Shoes Tod's Handbag Tod's Loafers Tod's Maccosins