Althouse: "People can't just decide to be lesbians. It just doesn't work that way. Right?"

June 20, 2005

"People can't just decide to be lesbians. It just doesn't work that way. Right?"

Tonya asks.

13 comments:

Ann Althouse said...: A wisecrack answer to Tonya's question is: it sure doesn't work that way if you're a man.

Dave: I think the woman being interviewed was relying on stereotype, but the show itself seems to have been about how people delude themselves. The woman realized in the end that what she was doing didn't make sense. So wasn't the show busting stereotypes rather than parroting them?

I didn't hear this one, but I love "This American Life." It's a great, great show.; 6/20/05, 9:08 AM
CM said...: After living in several places with strong gay communities, I can understand that desire to be part of the community. Some gay social circles are pretty exclusive. They don't want to include anyone who isn't gay or doesn't strongly identify with the queer community.; 6/20/05, 9:42 AM
Tonya said...: There's an episode of Sex and the City in which Charlotte insinuates herself into a Power Lesbian social circle. For her, it provides the sisterhood that she misses from her college sorority days. But, they boot her out of the group because she just can't make love to a woman.; 6/20/05, 9:46 AM
Anthony said...: I tried to comment on Tonya's blog but it kept crashing Firefox. . . . .

There was a story arc of Buffy the Vampire Slayer on this very topic, which kind of made me irritated with the show afterwards. Seems one of the characters (Willow the witch) was het het het all through about Season 5 I believe, even having a long story arc about her passionate relationship with a man (who turned out to be a werewolf) which then ended terribly. You know, the usual.

Then all of a sudden she decided she was a lesbian and had that whole story arc about her passionate relationship with a woman (who turned out to be a so-so witch herself) which then ended terribly.

I never bought the idea except as a load of PC-ness brought on by the show's fans screaming about how there weren't any gay characters on it. Plus there's the stereotype issue which worked in that case on many levels, especially the one where all lesbians are supposed to be mother-goddess worshipping Wiccans deeply in touch with Gaia.

And, um, I probably also would have minded less if the characters had been, you know, hotter.; 6/20/05, 11:39 AM
Simon Kenton said...: So far as I know or have encountered, a man may get some personal or erotic pressure to become gay, or at least to have some gay experience. The pressure is personal. But I've known a couple of women who were pressured to become lesbians for political reasons. "You can't really be a board member of the women's coop if you're straight." "You're not really a feminist unless you choose women on every level." As a member of the sex which is celebrated in many savage jokes for its willingness to lie any lie and drive any drivel to get laid, I had a connoisseur's interest in these specimen statements. They would not have worked on me, but on their intended targets? (The reporting parties claimed these lines were ineffective.)

One of my friends did try a lesbian affair. This got her into the lesbian crowd at law achool. At one get-together, they all said, "You've never felt like this before, have you? The intensity...?"

"Yes, I have, with some of my boyfriends." (Not the right answer.)

She told me that comparatively speaking the breakup of her lesbian affair was a lot messier and more full of tawdry social misbehaviors and tacky loud scenes than her hetero breakups.; 6/20/05, 12:38 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Leland: Just type option-e then e.

"Six Feet Under" also uses this plotline (with Claire).; 6/20/05, 2:20 PM
Anthony said...: So, basically, mainstream TV is finally getting around to adopting the basic premise of 90% of porn movies. . . . .; 6/20/05, 2:44 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Anthony: Thanks for sharing your expertise!; 6/20/05, 2:51 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Slac: I don't see a problem with your question. And note that the fundamental point here is do people choose their sexual preferences? It is in the interest of the gay rights movement to answer this question "no."; 6/20/05, 5:23 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Leland: Right. I think it is in the short run in the interest of the movement, in the legal/political context, to portray sexual orientation as not a choice. Opponents of gay rights rely heavily on portraying homosexuality as a "lifestyle choice." In the long run, it would be better to reach the same answer whether or not it's a choice. By the way, years ago, in the late 80s, some gay rights proponents feared that a biological level cause for homosexuality would hurt the movement because it would confirm the perception that homosexuality is a disease. There was a very strong belief that portraying homosexualty as a matter of choice would bring more respect. That view is rarely heard anymore, but I vividly remember having my head bitten off by a well-known lefty lawprof for saying that finding a biological basis for homosexuality would help the cause of gay rights! Apparently, I was a terrible person for thinking such a thing!; 6/20/05, 6:01 PM
brian said...: I still cannot understand how anyone could think that it is a choice. For the heterosexuals out there, did you choose to be heterosexual?

When you see Brad Pitt or Cindy Crawford (or, for some of you, your spouse), do you have to consciously decide that you feel sexual arousal? I'm a heterosexual male, and I must say that my physiological sexual response to a beautiful woman occurs regardless of what I'm consciously thinking. Looking at things that way, I can't see how sexuality is a choice.; 6/20/05, 6:22 PM
knox said...: Anthony: Thanks for sharing your expertise!

LOL!; 6/20/05, 6:56 PM
Gem said...: Homocon, this has always intrigued me about the idea that sexual preference is genetically inevitable. If that were strictly so, wouldn't both identical twins be gay, always?; 6/21/05, 7:13 AM