5:51: It's LBGT time. A video, with Obama saying we need to see a man with a man or a woman with a woman as equally worthy as a man and a woman. Then a young man named Zack Wahls — from Iowa — says he was raised by 2 moms, and: "I'm awesome at putting the seat down."
5:55: A really sweet and charming video about the woman who started the "Fired up/Ready to go" chant in Greenwood, South Carolina, some 4 years ago, Edith S. Childs. Ah, it's on line: here. Watch it. I liked that.
5:58: "They really got through the gay stuff quick," I observe.
6:01: Jim Messina, the Obama campaign manager is begging us for money. There's a sob in his voice. He sounds genuinely desperate.
6:28: Foo Fighters emote. [ADDED: Meade says: "This is kind of depressing music, and it goes along with the whole convention.]
6:32: The Foo Fighters are singing "I never wanna die" over and over. It's this song, "Walk":
I never wanna dieNo, no... that's not an argument for a politician's reelection.
I'm on my knees
I never wanna die
I'm dancing on my grave
I'm running through the fire
Forever, whatever
I never wanna die
I never wanna leave
6:34: Now, there's this really gloomy video. Faces on a dark background. Woebegone people agonizing about how they "did everything right," and yet they are "one mistake away from losing the little that we have."
6: 47: An. act.tress. Kerry. Wash.ing.ton. I'd never heard of her before, but she's emoting big time, like she's talking to a bunch of idiots who never think about politics. But politics is thinking about us, she says ominously. Uh, we're the people watching the convention. We're not your Hollywood friends. "The other side" — "side," pronounced as a series of trembling, upscaling notes — "wants. to. take. our. voi.ces. a.way. and render us. invisible" — big wagging finger — "but we" — "we," rendered in the trembling, upward 4-syllables for a 1-syllable word, like she's really trying to scare us — "are not. invisible." Her doe eyes scan the crowd. Did they understand? Did they com.pre.hend? Did they fath.om the depths of. my. words? [ADDED FROM THE COMMENTS: Fiftyville said: "I loved Kerry Washington's statement... 'You may not be thinking about politics, but politics is thinking about you.' If you have to steal, Dems, why steal from Yakov Smirnoff?"]
6:57: Scarlett Johansson. So the beautiful actresses are all getting dumped in an early hour. Unlike Kerry Washington, the actress Johansson is able to act like a normal person. "We are the generation who feel our voices haven't been heard," she says, repeating something Chelsea Clinton said earlier in the convention. Johansson enthuses about voting. It's a speech that seems more appropriate to a bunch of young kids. And, sorry, I don't understand the basis for this whole generation believing that their "voices haven't been heard." You get to vote. Like everyone else. Why do you feel there's more of an entitlement than that? If you have something to say, say it. You kids have the whole internet. Twitter. YouTube. My generation didn't have that. What's this "no voice" business?
7:04: Debbie Wasserman Schultz aids a woman who is struggling to walk onto the stage. With great effort, she struggles to blurt out the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. My God, it's Gabby Giffords. Many tears run down many faces.
7:09: "As a Catholic woman, I take reproductive health seriously," says Caroline Kennedy, reading the script robotically. She complains about states putting restrictions on "access to reproductive health care."
7:13: Jennifer Granholm, "from the great state of Michigan, where the trees are just the right height." (She lifts Mitt Romney's gentle joke about home, and Meade and I disagree about whether she's showing some affection for her fellow Michigander.)
7:17: Granholm has a good (if unfair) line — referencing Romney's supposed lack of concern for auto-industry workers — "The cars get the elevator, and the workers get the shaft." You have to know that Romney had a car elevator installed in one of his homes.
7:21: It's "actress Eva Longoria." Not sure why Caroline Kennedy and Jennifer Granholm broke up the parade of actresses. Longoria sounds like an intelligent person who actually has followed politics in the normal way that people who like politics follow politics.
7:43: John Kerry. American exceptionalism demands an exceptional President, and that President is Barack Obama, he says.
8:05: As a tribute to servicemen and women goes on at the convention, email from Obama comes in, saying, "Ann -- Before I go on stage to accept the nomination, there's one thing I need to say... Can you pitch in $25 or more right now?"
8:44: Jill Biden warmed us up to think of Joe Biden as the embodiment of human caring, and now Joe Biden is doing the same for Barack Obama. He tells us he "loves" Obama. Obama was "gutsy."
9:40: Obama is giving his speech. Here's the whole text. His inflections are polished, but nothing is jumping out at me as different from what I've heard him say many times.
9:55: "We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense." Is that controversial?
10:03: The word "hope" appears 15 times in his speech. The last 3 come near the end: "And I think about the young sailor I met at Walter Reed hospital, still recovering from a grenade attack that would cause him to have his leg amputated above the knee... He gives me hope. I don’t know what party [various heretofore mentioned] men and women belong to. I don’t know if they’ll vote for me. But I know that their spirit defines us. They remind me, in the words of Scripture, that ours is a 'future filled with hope.' And if you share that faith with me – if you share that hope with me – I ask you tonight for your vote." Other people give him hope, the Bible refers to hope, and if you hope like he hopes, you should vote for him. Because... hope!
10:17: The speech ends, and there's a flurry of confetti. No balloons, because an indoor presentation hadn't been planned. Obama steps forward and waves. There's a closeup of his face and I think I see his lip curl with a bit of disgust, and I rewind and ask Meade to interpret the face and he says: resignation. Subjectively, we think we see in his face that he knows he's going to lose. Michelle and Malia and Sasha come out, looking perfectly glossy and pretty, and then there's Biden and Jill and Mrs. Robinson and various other relatives, milling around, waving a bit, and then the long view of the stage shows they've clumped toward the rear wall. Why are they huddling there? The shots of the crowd show some ecstatic delegates — all women — and many stolid/dispirited faces — male and female. At one point there's a hitch in the Bruce Springsteen music — a silent gap — but then it plays again. And now they're gone.
10:26: The Cardinal wanders out to the lectern. He's got his benediction written out on folded sheets of paper. "Help us to see that a society's greatness is found, above all, in the respect it shows for the weakest and neediest among us." He thanks God for giving us those "inalienable rights — life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." He thanks God for "the gift of life" and asks that we be given "the courage to defend it." In subtle defiance of the convention's abortion-rights theme, he says: "We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected."
11:03: The Democrats didn't have anything oddball, like Clint Eastwood. Nothing surprising. Nothing to talk about. Speaking of nothing, on Intrade, Obama re-election shares today experienced a 0.0% change. Oh! I checked back, now he's down 0.2%. (Romney is up 0.7% on the day.)
11:12: I just realized I fast-forwarded through Charlie Crist. Looked like another white male governor. I forgot about the whole former-Republican thing. Does anyone really care?
Posts
784 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 784 Newer› Newest»We the people....form a more perfect union.... Just WHO do you think the Government IS?
AllieOop said...
TWM, oh yeah, I forgot that only conservatives were allowed to read the Constitution. The sacred text of conservatism, secret pass word and handshake needed to access it
Apparently, we're the only ones who understand it as written.
The Lefties feel the need to rewrite it because they can't live under a system built on freedom.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
Geez Ed, sense of humor, much?
A very good one. Joe never fails to make me laugh.
But i'm still waiting for Ritmo to say something funny.
I gotta love being lectured on math by a guy that uses words like "gi-normous".
" If the Democrats win on a set of issues this few and not very significant, then the Republicans will definitely have a lot of rethinking to do"
Yeah, the Republicans would really have to step up the shameless demagoguery, xenophobic hatred, and insulting condescension. The GOP's fallen way behind the competition.
But let's be serious. When you lose, friend, as will almost certainly happen, will you be doing any rethinking?
AllieOop said...
We the people....form a more perfect union.... Just WHO do you think the Government IS?
Not what we all belong to and not what owns us.
And it's whom.
Can they stop playing this same damn U2 song every time?
"We the people....form a more perfect union.... Just WHO do you think the Government IS?"
Seriously, you think that this passage means the individual BELONGS to the government? Really? Say you are joking? Please!
The government works for US. Not the other way around.
Learning that Dems were comfortable believing that they belonged to the government really scares the hell out of me . . .
U2, obviously doesn't mind Democrats using their music.
Hey, Shout, Choom just walked into the small venue.
I'm sure Ted Nugent will be happy to play for the Republicans.
I play for whoever pays me.
I've done gigs for Democratic and for Republican functions.
"U2, obviously doesn't mind Democrats using their music."
Screw em. They are all corporate whores and that's what royalties are for. Anyone can use them
TWM, oh yeah, I forgot that only conservatives were allowed to read the Constitution. The sacred text of conservatism, secret pass word and handshake needed to access it
Allie: It's your guy who said, "We are five days away from fundamentally transforming America."
Sure, you can read the Constitution, but you really don't like it much unless you can change it, and this goes back to Woodrow Wilson.
The first thing Obama did was remind everybody of Clinton's wife line.
U2 goes out of their way to avoid paying high taxes.
Rusty said...How can you tell? Does get more intelligent?
I guess you're employing Biden-speak. Let me try to deploy it in response:
No, he get less intelligence. He not intelligent.
Besides, he drink too many rum today. Maybe Scotch. Maybe Vodka. Me not sure.
He not dumb as post, but he usually talk better than post. He today talk like post.
Appropo of very little, a MD democrat writes the owner of the Baltimore Ravens to tell him to have one of his players shut up on the issue of gay marriage. Turns out the player supports gay marriage, and the Democrat apparently believes football players don't get to say things like that.
Dems: For free speech, as long as you agree.
Y'know, all this emphasis on Joe Biden's loyalty is . . . interesting.
Isn't U2 the band that split Ireland to enjoy lower tax rates on the continent?
Seems appropriate.
You guys need to cut Biden some slack. The guy is medically brain damaged.
Our plan is to pin the haves and the haves not.
Note that Obama, right now, is not drunk, by comparison to Biden. Obama seems quite sober. He's just a jerk. Not drunk.
I don't know why you keep judging him because his allegiance is to reason.
Y'know, all this emphasis on Joe Biden's loyalty is . . . interesting.
Theres got to be something Old Joe is pissed about.
and at 9:31, Obama starts attacking the straw man again.
WHEN, after 4 years, will this guy ever start taking responsibility?
Back to Clinton. Right now he is on the phone with Hillary saying, "I think you are set for 2016, babe."
I was merely trying to talk down to your level, Ritmo.
Look, friend, one thing you have been working assiduously to convince us of is that there is no topic that you will discuss in a rational fashion. The people in my experience who are most like you are the Creationists. Truth means nothing to them or to you. Reality means nothing to them or to you. You cannot be partner to any rational debate without flinging feces like a colubus monkey (figuratively speaking, of course).
And Allie is so much like you she might even be a second google account that you run.
Frankly, Ritmo, you can only be ignored or suppressed. From here on you will be ignored.
FDR opposed unionization of public workers, Mr. President.
Wait... is Obama taking to the right?
Not every ill can be solved by a government program?
"We the people....form a more perfect union.... Just WHO do you think the Government IS?"
The Government isn't a person, Allie. It's a thing. We, the people, created it and allow it to act on our behalf within the strict limits we proscribe. It owns nothing and contains nothing and consists of nothing that has not been lent to it by you and I. Governments belong to citizens. Only slaves belong to governments.
Bama is actually arguing for tax increases!
First time I've ever seen a presidential candidate stake his fortunes on that.
So far his speech is lamer than most everyone else's I've heard. Why? Because he's talking like he always does, and he's been talking and yammering to Americans for years.
I hadn't thought about that coming into the convention, but not I'm experiencing it. And it's a bit weird. The Man turns out to be the most banal speaker of 'em all. Heck, Fauxcahontas was more interesting...
There was a lull there after he said not every problem could be solved by government where he expected applause. He got some, but not a lot
Obama reinvented the auto industry and now it's better than ever. Whatta man!
TWM said...
You guys need to cut Biden some slack. The guy is medically brain damaged.
Shit, does this mean we can't mock Allie either?
Leftists, like Allie, will love this speech. Dems in general will say they love it. But in the end, votes will go the other way.
Now he is announcing trade wars.
Glad you learned about the concept of being figurative, Mike. It will help in your quest to disseminate rationality from your on-high auspices.
Bryan C, but corporations are people my friend.
<blockquote>"It's not the Federal Government's place to define marriage..."
--BarryD (6:10 PM)<blockquote>
That's right. For example, if I want to rent to, hire, or give spousal benefits only to married people then by right only how I "define marriage" should count.
That's the libertarian way.
Evil oil companies. Eeeeeeeeevil.
"Bryan C, but corporations are people my friend."
Corporations are people. Rather they are groups of people who bind together legally for a purpose. Attacking a corporation like it is some scary monster is just childish and silly.
But then that's the Democratic Party.
How does the president talk about supporting natural gas and then not talk about their opposition to fracking?
Come on. Are you guys really pissed that a venerable and significant American industry was revived, that all those manufacturing jobs were saved, that the Big Three became competitive and profitable?
You can't be this cynical and hateful of the diversity this economy, or any healthy economy requires.
Even Clint Eastwood, the guy who talked to a chair, was happy about that.
No, affirmative action was the "gateway" for you and Michelle.
I can't hear him. Are they using that echo machine?
Millions are paying LESS for education? Who? The online schools?
Is it me, or does our President live in a different country?
There's a popular thing among pundits. People who make their money like to say roughly that "this is the nanosecond in which the inevitable happened".
Obama is toast. He's talking right now, as I type, as though he's a waffle, or something. He's toast. I don't know when it happened exactly. These things don't have certain points in time. It's OK to be un-sure.
Shouting Thomas said...
Bama is actually arguing for tax increases!
First time I've ever seen a presidential candidate stake his fortunes on that.
Not your taxes, silly. Their taxes--the other guy's.
Just reminding, but I know it means nothing to many.
Yes, it is said that compassion for the poor means nothing to Democrats.
Not sure why that means you keep voting for them, though.
Tough love is the only kind that really helps.
You are "compassionately" stealing from me to give people fish every day, instead of teaching them to fish.
Why aren't you allowed to feed animals at national parks, again?
C'mon, Allie, you are capable of turning on a computer, you can figure out the obvious answer to that last question.
Wow,his entire speech thus far has been demagoging and misstating what conservatives actually are even suggesting.
I love how the idea of ANY deregulation is a bad choice. And his idea of going forward is moving backwards to Keynesian policies that are proven not to work, but are not even new ideas.
Right, because conservatives are not for exports, and jobs for America. /sarc.
And now we he's talking about controlling our own energy, he who blocked pipelines and propped up Solyndra.
Ugh.
You know Obama, it's not that we are necessarily against some of the things you are for, (though based on your rhetoric it sure sounds like you think that) we just don't think your policies will in any way lead to those results.
And neither do you apparently since of course you gave yourself an incomplete on the economy and need four more years to get the job done. What are YOU going to do differently than more of the same?
We can choose these future for America, just not with Obama doing the same old.
I'm not even watching his speech and I know what he is saying.
He might as well put his finger in the shape of an L on his forehead for as much good as this will do.
Also, AllieOop, the DNC has been so meanspirited and full of lies and distortions and strawmen, it really makes me think less of you that you are having so much fun with it.
Christopher said...
People who bitch about outsourcing are one step away from claiming that we should block imports.
Protectionism: Because Smoot Hawley worked so well the first time around.
=======================
For most of it's history, until we found the industrial infrastructure of most advanced nations destroyed by WWII, America defended its Market and development of domestic industries by sensible tariffs.
Good thing, too...or we would have been outcompeted and essentially remained a low-educated food and raw materials exporter only, for the finished goods we could swap in trade.
AS for the people with the money paying a huge share of taxes because wealth has been concentrating at the top while median workers wages have been stagnant since 1980....being terribly unfair to the Hero Jobs Creators who care for us all???
The tragedy of noble Jobs Creators was even worse in 1950s Paraguay, where the 200 Families, cursed with owning 95% of that sordid little backwater nation's wealth, were persecuted.
Yes persecuted because the 200 families who were the Jobs Creators and who working harder and smarter than the mere proles and peasants...paid 93% if the income tax!!!
(A good deal of which went to the Hero Soldiers and Hero Police to help protect the Hero Jobs Creators from having their lands and wealth taken by ungrateful serfs and peasants,,,)
Please, God, may this be the last time I hear "Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive" or anything approaching its equivalent.
Nathan Alexander, is that supposed to mean something to me?
What a bunch of freaks and weirdos.
At the DNC, too.
Millions are paying a little less for education. Now. Because the govt. is subsidizing them. If course it's all borrowed money, so they will pay for it later--in much greater amounts--because of the debts being incurred and the way in which all this debt will diminish future prosperity. Let alone the future taxes needed to pay the incredible debt load.
Bama is actually arguing for tax increases!
First time I've ever seen a presidential candidate stake his fortunes on that.
Walter Mondale did...and he even won his home state.
Yes we want to take us back to a blustering foreign policy. That's exactly what republicans are saying. And of course, this is the same part that can't say that Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel.
OMG.. Russia does everything to undermine everything we are trying to do and we should not call them on it?
What a clown for a president we have.
Oh, is he really chiding the opposition for their foreign policy inexperience? Is he really taking Romney to tax for "insulting our closest ally"?? Does he think we all have amnesia???
O Ritmo Segundo said...
Come on. Are you guys really pissed that a venerable and significant American industry was revived, that all those manufacturing jobs were saved, that the Big Three became competitive and profitable?
This would be closer to true had GM gone through a non-political bankruptcy initiated solely to ensure Democratic Party constituents received more favorable treatment than was warranted. But unfortunately GM will be back in bankruptcy within a decade. In the meantime Ford, a better managed company, will be weakened possibly to the point of failure.
In reality very few jobs were saved.
Higher taxes!
Shouting Thomas said...
Bama is actually arguing for tax increases!
First time I've ever seen a presidential candidate stake his fortunes on that.
Oh, come on, Shout, you remember '84.
"Ronald Reagan and I will both raise your taxes. he won't tell you. I just did."
Fritz barely carried his home state.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
Come on. Are you guys really pissed that a venerable and significant American industry was revived, that all those manufacturing jobs were saved, that the Big Three became competitive and profitable?
It has? When did this happen and why was I not informed?
(now that's funny)
Actually, if the Feds hadn't bought up all the Volts, GM would be in receivership. The only place GM can sell cars is outside the country, so there's goes competitiveness.
As it is, the taxpayers have taken a $25B loss - no profit.
That's an odd revival.
And manufacturing has been contracting for the last 3 months.
Of course not.
Voucher hands over power to individuals to choose.. cant have that.
Wait, Obama wants people to retire with the dignity they've earned?
Heh.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/22/private-emails-detail-obama-admin-involvement-in-cutting-non-union-worker-pensions-post-gm-bailout/
Obama is done.
I don't think I can continue listening. This is just plain awful.
"that all those manufacturing jobs were saved, that the Big Three became competitive and profitable?"
The "Big Three" didn't all get bail-outs.
How good would Ford be doing now, if their competition wasn't chosen as a "winner" by the government?
Do you think, somehow, that people who do a good job cheer when the next guy over who is a moron gets the same rewards? There's a huge amount of rancor built up when you do all the right things, pay your bills, make the hard choices, work through the difficult times and then... you feel like you get squat because the other guy who didn't give up the comfortable things you gave up, or made the hard choices, or had the better business plan gets "saved" yet again.
and at 9:51, our president erects another straw man, and this time he almost knocks him down!
Alas, he doesn't know it. Much like Bill Clinton, he doesn't know when to shut his trap.
Over a half an hour and so far I haven't heard anything new.
Obama is repeating the same tired lines.
The cob just said that Obamacare will cost double the estimate? So how are you reducing health care costs you jackass?
Bigger tax cuts and fewer regulations are the ONLY way, if you don't have I durance hope you don't get sick. Right that's exactly what conservatives are saying.
And we of course don't believe in citizenship. What a demagoging a hole.
That's right, borrowing from one's parents is not what we're about. Borrowing from taxpayers is what we're about. That's CITIZENSHIP!!
now Joe Biden is doing the same for Barack Obama. He tells us he "loves" Obama
Billy Dee Williams he ain't.
I'm right here, KS *waves*
The text of the opening paragraph of Obama's speech, as published:
Michelle, I love you. The other night, I think the entire country saw just how lucky I am. Malia and Sasha, you make me so proud…but don’t get any ideas, you’re still going to class tomorrow. And Joe Biden, thank you for being the best Vice President I could ever hope for.
Here is a man who needs a teleprompter to express love to his wife. Otherwise he might fuck it up? Now that is really creepy.
We the people....form a more perfect union.... Just WHO do you think the Government IS
That would be an excellent point... if I'd written the preamble to the Constitution.
But I do find it amusing that you think the Constitution was written to sell later generations into bondage to their government.
So, what Obama is basically saying is: "You did build that."
Has he said "Some say...." yet?
Oh, now I get it.
If the change doesn't work out, it's OUR fault!
It's official. He has nothing.
"But I do find it amusing that you think the Constitution was written to sell later generations into bondage to their government."
I actually thought Allie was being disingenuous. Sort of playing with us. But now, I really thing she believes this stuff.
That is very frightening.
We don't think that govt is thesaurus of ALL our problems either. Or gays or immigrants, and the others we are told to blame.
Who is saying we should blame gays and immigrants for ALL problems. How about we blame govt for the problems it causes.
We believe in self govt? Or rather, YOU believe in self govt?tfunny that's not what you have been arguing. And the tax code certainly doesn't reflect that. Right now a minority pays for the lion share of taxes, and a majority pay no taxes. That's self govt?
The change we fought for is impossible? Is that what we have been arguing? Apparently, unless we ascribe to the solutions Obama has offered (that haven't worked) then we don't even think change is possible.
Worst presidential speaker ever?
As if you have any idea what Lincoln went through.
jr565 said...
The cob just said that Obamacare will cost double the estimate? So how are you reducing health care costs you jackass?
The CBO also said unemployment will hit 9.1 next year, so he's just going to use ObamaTax to send everybody that's out of work and their families to Auschwitz-on-the-Chattahootchie and there'll be so many fewer people to pay for.
So the President who rated himself 3rd or 4th best in history now becomes aware of his failings?
Ai Yi Freakin Yi.
Has he said "Some say...." yet?
Also, has he tried to make anything perfectly clear?
Peter Ryan said...
Oh, now I get it.
If the change doesn't work out, it's OUR fault!
Adolf had a similar view.
these narcissists are all alike.
Thank each and every one of you for listening to this nonsense. That's kind, by the way, my saying nonsense.
I actually thought Allie was being disingenuous. Sort of playing with us. But now, I really thing she believes this stuff.
She's trying to be clever, and I do get some amusement value from that. It is like watching a dog try to walk on its hind legs.
"OMG.. Russia does everything to undermine everything we are trying to do and we should not call them on it?"
Dude, Putin says he prefers Obama to Romney. Obama obviously can't risk losing the crucial KGB Dictator endorsement.
"More flexibility", and all.
Invoking scripture (paraphrased) at the same convention that booed the inclusion of God (at leas the PROCESS of including God) in their platform?
Can we be any more cynical?
THe usual musical formula: Open with U2, close with Springsteen.
Did anybody faint?
Same old 'Librulism' - promises everything to everybody ...
Vote NO. to B. H. Obama this fall.
Do it for America.
_Jim
The prez is forever telling me that I deserve my fair share, but he never tells me what that "fair share" is.
Tried for the big finish. Failed. In fact, the whole speech is a massive fail. Are there any balloons??
Obama sez, "...everyone plays by the same rules – from Main Street to Wall Street to Washington, DC." Er, uh, except for my cronies who get waivers.
Nathan Alexander, is that supposed to mean something to me?
Yes. I think he means that the poor are somehow like park animals and that they haven't had things hard enough to teach them how to survive.
"Are there any balloons??"
Nope. They didn't plan for any since they were doing it in the open stadium. But then, you know, the horrible, terrible downpour or rain kept them from doing it there so they did it in here. And no balloons were ready.
Sad really.
Just took a look. His face seems to say he knows it was a massive fail.
DJ Doesn't know what to play.
Country?
I thought they had given up on white males.
Obama talked about how Romney wants to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for a tax cut for the rich.
Here is a comparison of their plans:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2012/09/tax-foundation-romneys-tax-plan.html
President Obama’s tax plan, however, is largely at odds with any commonly held notion of tax reform, including Simpson-Bowles. It would result in dramatically higher tax rates, on the order of 50% to 90% higher than the Simpson-Bowles rates on personal income and investment income. While the president has voiced support for eliminating tax expenditures, his specific proposals tend to add more than are taken away, although he has proposed limiting them for high-income earners. Not only does this fail to simplify the tax code, it fails to spur the economy, ultimately resulting in insufficient tax revenue and perpetual deficits.
I didn't see the river of tears I recall from 2008.
Ok, so Synova thinks the fall-out on the rest of the economy would have been a great price to pay for making sure the domestic auto industry failed as planned.
YOu know, THEY deserved it and therefore, so did WE.
Thanks but no thanks.
Ritmo, I meant the part where he says he thinks less of me.
... I feel much, much better for Romney's odds after that. Good speech, but not amazing.
I've seen only one woman crying so far.
Dolan?
Oh.. they had to let God in so they figure.. ok let Dolan in.
Let us close this convention with a prayer because we finally allowed God back into the hall.
Well, at least Barack and Michelle are better off than they were 4 years ago. And their future looks very bright indeed.
The rest of us didn't do so well.
Vote accordingly.
Now you know how hitler did it -
Words ... powerfully spoken to arouse the multitudes ..
_Jim
.
Well, didn't watch it, can't judge it, BUT, I cannot believe this convention swayed one person on the edge. Not one.
BOrowitz sez:
The $16 trillion debt is all Obama's fault. He should have gone back in time and stopped Bush from invading Iraq for absolutely no reason.
Life!
Ok Dolan.. we asked you to pray not preach.
He thinks less of anyone he can find to think less of.
I've always thought it was too easy to be a liberal.
You never have to make tough choices.
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. - I've always thought that this meant a more perfect union of the States, not of the people as some monolith in subservience to the government.
Bama is an incredibly effective public speaker. You can tell that his handlers have been reading the criticism, too... that his speeches have way too many "I"s in them. He avoided making the speech about his ego, which is a major improvement.
He promised everything. Government can do everything. No surprises there.
Then he launched into the great theme.
Republicans hate all government and want to turn America into a Wild West with no safety net. Republicans don't care whether their neighbors live or die. Republicans hate women, gays and blacks.
And, somehow, he's still trying to sell the notion that Republicans are more in the pocket of big biz and Wall Street than the Democrats.
This is such bullshit. It's beating a strawman to death, picking up the corpse and beating it some more. I, frankly, have no idea how a sentient person believes this shit, but there are plenty of people on this board who do.
It will be interesting to see how Romney counters this in the debates.
O Ritmo wrote:
Yes. I think he means that the poor are somehow like park animals and that they haven't had things hard enough to teach them how to survive.
so that upper 8% unemployment rate can't possibly be a ringing endorsement for obamas suggestion that he is helping the poor.
"The prez is forever telling me that I deserve my fair share, but he never tells me what that "fair share" is."
The new Department of Fairness is gathering the data even as we speak. Now, let's talk about your party membership...
Maybe they should just nominate the Cardinal. Best speaker of the night.
Did you see people flinch when Cardinal Dolan mentioned religious freedom?!
Wasn't that mayor talking now, caught canoodling with a news anchor in Los Angeles?
jr yet again brings his predictably warmed-over oversight on how the Republicans in Congress NEVER HAD ANY EFFECT ON OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION WHATSOEVER!!! IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!!!1!1 HE HAD MIND-CONTROL AND MADE THEM BLOCK HIS LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVES!1!1!!!!
'Elmer Gantry' or 'A Face in the Crowd' anyone?
People *CRYING* listening to him?
It reminded me of films of people watching Hitler gave speeches in Nazi Germany.
The new Department of Fairness is gathering the data even as we speak. Now, let's talk about your party membership..
Oh, that's okay then. I'm one of those highly sought-after independents.
Actually he didn't say that Shouting and Romney will "counter" Obama by disagreeing with one of Romney's own previous fifteen positions.
"We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense."
Therefore, ipso facto, some of us should use the absolute power of the state to force you to give your property to us to distribute as we see fit.
(He obviously doesn't know why the founders broke from King George, who was bound to them with a father love and a firm guiding hand.)
"Ok, so Synova thinks the fall-out on the rest of the economy would have been a great price to pay for making sure the domestic auto industry failed as planned."
The *auto industry* would not have failed. People need cars (if they can afford to buy cars) and there were solvent manufacturers in the US. What expansions would they have made to their operations that they were not able to make?
It is absolutely arguable that it would have been better for everyone to get the pain over all at once, but it's *arguable*. We, as a nation, took the other route. It was not *automatically* the best route to take, though it's also not *automatically* the wrong route to have taken.
But you state things as if it's absolute... as if the "auto industry" consists of GM, or even that it consists of Union Workers who work for GM. But GM isn't the whole of it, and even if it was, it's not a perpetual motion machine. It can't fund it's own operation as a closed system while the rest of the nation slugs along at 8% or better unemployment, under employment, and significantly lower average household wealth.
It's unsustainable.
Growing jobs (and often poorly paying ones) at the approximate rate that new people enter the workforce (or what is about the birth rate in the US) is not going to fix that.
The number of jobs that belong to GM really aren't that many in the context of the whole country. Certainly not enough to pull us out of this, even if it kept the Union bosses fat and fed.
Ok Shouting. Republicans do care if their neighbors live or die. Just not if the government had anything to do with it.
Got it.
Of course, Ritmo, Republicans had an effect.
They opposed Obama, which is what their constituents sent them to Washington to do.
You still can't grasp this concept? I've known first graders who can understand this.
I'm glad the Republicans tried to shut down Obama's frenzy of borrowing and spending. I voted for that, too.
My favorite part about that whole thing was where Timothy Dolan was did a prayer at the end and I'm sitting here going, God I always hated public prayers because I'm thinking about you hearing that and knowing its a speech and not truly sincere from his human heart direct to you. And God said don't worry about that. There really are people out there feeling it and they're making up for the thing you're seeing, those sincere people more than make up for it but none of that is your concern. And right then the camera showed the people squeezing their eyes and people in deep earnest prayer and I was happy because the camera did not show the people who were looking around impatiently, watching other people as I was doing, talking, texting, taking pictures, picking their noses, pulling their pants out of their butt crack.
The key to remember from Obama's speech is that you did do that.
That's pretty patriotic of you, Synova. The prime minister of Japan could use more plants like you to make the case for his country's industry in America.
I'm glad the Republicans tried to shut down Obama's frenzy of borrowing and spending. I voted for that, too.
Then you share in the blame for the horrible effect that had, Mr. First Grade Teacher.
I really think it's going to come down to the debates.
The Democrats are trying to frame Romney as the bogey man, the very emblem of the great Banking Scam of 2008.
The scam was bipartisan. Both parties are dirty as hell.
If you look at their personal bios, however, I think you'll see that Obama was directly involved in the scams, while Romney was not.
Your a poor student, Ritmo.
Hopeless, in fact.
Things have improved since 2010, when the Republicans put on the brakes.
Haven't you noticed?
Also, Synova, it seems that someone here never heard of something called a "multiplier effect".
Jobs beget jobs.
There was one woman Chip that didn't like what the cardinal was saying.. she looked indignant.
When the Dolan prayed for Romney and Ryan... she looked like she didn't like that part.
Things have improved since 2010, when the Republicans put on the brakes.
Provide a source or reason for or fact supporting this, Mr. Intelligence.
The $16 trillion debt is all Obama's fault. He should have gone back in time and stopped Bush from invading Iraq for absolutely no reason.
FORWARD!
Shouting Thompson wrote:
This is such bullshit. It's beating a strawman to death, picking up the corpse and beating it some more. I, frankly, have no idea how a sentient person believes this shit, but there are plenty of people on this board who do.
It will be interesting to see how Romney counters this in the debates.
easy, he can say he wants to keep taxes low because he cares about the middle class. He can say he is agai st govt bloat because he cares about the middle class. And he can show that despite all the empathy expressed by dems nothing helps people more who are suffering than jobs, so you do what you can to most stimulate the economy. How do you jumpstart hiring.
Giving millions to infrastructure jobs that aren't there? No, you lower the corporate tax rate so that businesses can compete. That's not ALL you do, but Obama and the dems have got to get off this demagoging business kick.
But rahter than try to stimulate the economy, he I stead tried to pay off his constituencies and grow unions because of "fairness". Unions are not going to jumpstart an economy when we,re in a recession.
He is simply incapable of getting past his biases to see that his policies do not actually help poor people.
Romney should talk about why deregulation is often (not always but often) a way for businesses to innovate and streamline their business so as to increase production and therefore jobs. And having a knee reaction against ANY deregulation (and fuck it, I'll state his position as an absolute since he's so willing to do so to his opponents) is bass ackwards and anti progress.
Romney should lay out the many ways that obama uses his "some might say" arguments to completely misrepresent his opponents actual positions, because otherwise he'd have to defend HIS own positions, which he can't do based on the numbers.
The financial and housing markets stabilized.
Best part of the evening? Cardinal Dolan's benediction.
Obama's speech was empty.
Outsourcing, per se, isn't a bad thing. My tiny little company provides services to other companies that don't have the skill sets or personnel or time to provide these services themselves. I want companies to outsource to me.
I can transcribe, proofread, edit, do a website, maintain one, and many other services. Why shouldn't I be able to use my skills to help a company that maybe doesn't need a full time person to do some of the things I can do for them?
Bama is an incredibly effective public speaker.
I must be immune. This speech was just like every other speech he's given. Boring and phony.
Fascism is the horse upon with rides the totalitarian government into town.
The horse is in the town gate.
Lem, her face of consternation cancels out her whole thing. She doesn't know how that group energy prayer thing works. It's disqualifying. I'm pretty sure about that. Too bad.
So most folks figured Clinton would outshine Obama at this convention. But who'da figured Biden would too?
"Ok, so Synova thinks the fall-out on the rest of the economy would have been a great price to pay for making sure the domestic auto industry failed as planned."
No one gives two shits about domestic DVD player industry.
When Eva Longoria appeared, the closed captioning on the TV I was watching rendered her name as "Eva Logorrhea." Make up your own joke.
The financial and housing markets stabilized.
Nothing to do with regulation and legislation passed beforehand. Not a thing. It was all to do with spending cuts.
What malarkey. Who believes that? Find an economist to support this fantasy you pulled out of your rhythm stick.
AND the water levels began to drop.
Oops, that was 4 years ago already.
Well, garage, you've focusing on the content.
I'm focusing on the emotional effect.
I'm a musician. I know how to play a crowd. You can play a crowd with any kind of message. It's a skill.
Obama's got it. I'll give him that.
Worst part of the evening?
The beginning because it led to all the rest.
"jr yet again brings his predictably warmed-over oversight on how the Republicans in Congress NEVER HAD ANY EFFECT ON OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION WHATSOEVER!!! IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!!!1!1 HE HAD MIND-CONTROL AND MADE THEM BLOCK HIS LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVES!1!1!!!!"
Yelling doesn't make your warmed-over rant any fresher.
Obama absolutely managed to do what he wanted to do, what he prioritized, he DID. He got Obama-care through.
Republicans HATED Obama-care.
So what's the difference, Ritmo? Why could Obama get what he wanted and then not get what he wanted?
The "poor little helpless Obama" theory doesn't add up. It's illogical. You can't argue that the Republicans supported Obama-care and that's why the cases are different.
The difference is... Obama prioritized Obama-care because he *believed* that the economy had been taken care of, that the influx of money would do the job, and all he had to do was wait. So he did what he cared about the most.
And in the end... it's his job to get what he CAN and not what he'd prefer. This is not the first time a President has had a Congress that had other ideas. If he can't let Congress decide how to solve things and then sign what he gets sent, maybe he should have stayed a SENATOR.
Bama is an incredibly effective public speaker.
not really. He relies on flourishes that are completely see through and phony, and he sounds like Ernie from sesame street while doing so. He tries for the MLK or even the Clinton enthusiasm and clever associations, but he is such a cold fish it comes across like he's playing at making an inspired speech, rahter than actually making an inspired speech.
EMD, you're just proving you don't care about employment.
If you (reflexively, of course) deny that the multiplier effect of the domestic auto industry is greater, then you haven't a clue about the make-up of the American economy.
Wow!
Nice work Professor! I'm seeing over 500 comments. Ya' know at some point in time ya hafta displace Brian "Butt Lips" William.
I think you might have a second career!! You might be the future of reporting!!
Lem, her face of consternation cancels out her whole thing..
Thats mighty magnanimous of you.
Why could Obama get what he wanted and then not get what he wanted?
Uh, I think it's called timing and how the make-up of a body of government changed over time.
The caps lock was just to play with jr and his sermonizing, theological certitude.
Outsourcing, per se, isn't a bad thing.
Your company employs 1000 people.
You're getting your ass kicked by foreign and domestic competitors who have access to cheaper labor.
You have a choice:
A. Hold the line and hope that somehow you can convince consumers to pay more for an identical product, or
B. Outsource 50% of your workforce to another country and cut labor costs.
IYou go with A, costs eat up your profit margins, you lose business and go bankrupt — 1,000 people hit the unemployment office.
You go with B, maintain a healthy bottom line, and provide domestic livelihoods for 500 Americans.
Sometimes, outsourcing isn't evil ... it's a survival technique.
Business wants Obama gone.
I don't blame them, because he's taking their money in campaign contributions and bad mouthing them at the same time. This creates bad blood. Businessmen are people, too.
Big business is sitting on a treasure trove of cash, waiting out the election before it decides to start hiring again.
Business has more confidence in Romney.
Romney is a RINO. The picture that Obama is painting of him is off the wall. After all, Romney was governor of MA. I don't see any indication that Romney is going to go on a campaign to make abortion illegal.
And, I think that, like most candidates, Romney is mostly gassing about a lot of things he's going to do to inflame the far right. I think he'll govern from very close to the center.
As the pundits begin their comparison of last night's nominating speach with tonight's Obama speach, Clinton's deft upstaging will become very difficult to ignore.
EMD, you're just proving you don't care about employment.
I bought a Ford. Go America!
ST - if we've already tipped past 50% to the TAKERS our republic is gone.
By now Obama is winging his way back to DC, while a handful of platinum-level, jilted DNC donors get the consolation prize of pressing the flesh with Unky Joe.
Ritmo, the car companies could have just gone through bankruptcy and reorganization.
Which is what Romney said he preferred.
The companies wouldn't have disappeared.
But, the stockholders wouldn't have been shafted in favor of union pensions either.
Yeah, EMD. Because Germany outsources a lot of those employed by BMW and Mercedes. You know, the Chinese can't beat us in their race to the bottom if we can use their near slave labor.
The American worker is just too, you know, entitled, to think that he should be a slave laborer competing for shit jobs to make shit products.
That's pretty much what you think.
Outsourcing, per se, isn't a bad thing. My tiny little company provides services to other companies that don't have the skill sets or personnel or time to provide these services themselves. I want companies to outsource to me.
I can transcribe, proofread, edit, do a website, maintain one, and many other services. Why shouldn't I be able to use my skills to help a company that maybe doesn't need a full time person to do some of the things I can do for them?
The only problem is if you're in India.
Resignation on Obama's face?
Resignation is not that far from contempt.
The companies wouldn't have disappeared.
But a huge number of their workers and those who supply them would have.
Which is, I suppose, just the way you and Romney and everyone else who doesn't care about unemployment wants it.
How can you not see that? What blindness.
Ritmo, you use the same strategy every time... which is to paraphrase your opponent's ideas in the wildest manner you can imagine.
Sometimes, this works.
More often, it's just lying.
The American worker is just too, you know, entitled, to think that he should be a slave laborer competing for shit jobs to make shit products.
Oh, so you've driven a Volt.
I hadn't seen Clinton in a while.. so there a newness that comes from estrangement.
I heard Clinton..
Obama? not so much.
Ritmo,
The government cannot be in the business of insuring that corporations never go out of business.
Your idea that they should be in the business is absurd.
Ritmo, you use the same strategy every time... which is to paraphrase your opponent's ideas in the wildest manner you can imagine.
Sometimes, this works.
More often, it's just lying.
It's seeing the conclusion that you seem to not be able to follow.
Ritmo, you use the same strategy every time... which is to paraphrase your opponent's ideas in the wildest manner you can imagine.
And I'm just trying to think of the stupidest jokes I can to counter this "strategy."
Four out of four PBS talking heads agree...way better than the republican convention...Brooks even got a "policy tingle" up his leg (he actually said that).
Your idea that they should be in the business is absurd.
I only support doing that in extreme situations. I prefer it to wallowing in the extremely worse alternative.
That's because I'm somewhat fair minded and inclined to believe that my opponent is operating from a standpoint of honest self-interest.
You assume your opponent is the devil.
That's because I'm somewhat fair minded and inclined to believe that my opponent is operating from a standpoint of honest self-interest.
No matter how poorly informed he is. Yes, you and I are different in that regard.
You assume your opponent is the devil.
No. Just poorly informed. And only when proven. Never assumed.
The inflection and grandiose delivery was there... but I found the entire exercise empty.
It was a chocolate eclair missing the cream filling, sure looks tasty but not at all satisfying.
You're going to tackle entitlement reform and the debt Mr. President? Really? How? Your opponents have a plan. You may disagree with the plan, but it exists. It can stand and fall on its own merits. You had a commission, they presented a plan... and you preceded to ignore them (see: all 4 of your budgets which in many cases failed to win a single vote from your own party in congress). I just let my jaw drop when this part of the speech came. Complete lack of credibility on this.
And this bit was the most surprising part of the speech; I know he's dipped his toe into the debt/entitlement reform pool in previous speeches (2008)... I just didn't expect him to concede the point that something had to be done. Seems he had to, but I think having him give this boilerplate mention of it tonight is going to backfire. Romney/Ryan can both say with a straight face "here's our plan. This is it. Where's yours mister president?" And when Obama's only advantage on entitlements is to point out specifics that some may disagree with... he will completely lose this should he offer a "plan" of his own. It will either be to vague to score, or be shown as "not serious".
In short; Obama's entire chances seem to ride on hoping he can keep the country from asking to see his plan.
"Also, Synova, it seems that someone here never heard of something called a "multiplier effect".
Jobs beget jobs."
Oh dear gawd. Have I not heard of the "multiplier effect?"
There is no such thing as perpetual motion. Repeat that. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.
That is why I specifically said "It can't fund it's own operation as a closed system..."
Henry Ford priced his cars so his workers could afford them, but he could not stay in business ONLY selling to his employees. The localized prosperity created by keeping an auto plant open has to be fed by auto sales outside of the local area so that money keeps on coming IN.
There IS no multiplier effect. It is a Keynesian fantasy. North Dakota is doing well because it's pulling money from the ground. You can't pay your gardener $50 and have that $50 multiply to $60. The government can't, no matter what Nancy Pelosi said, pay out unemployment and get back more than was paid out.
Yes, yes, yes... people pass money around. But it's not a closed system that can be primed and then chuck along "multiplying" itself.
Someone other than employees have to BUY the cars made in these plants.
You're getting your ass kicked by foreign and domestic competitors who have access to cheaper labor.
Germany produces twice the number of vehicles as the U.S. and pays their workers twice what we pay. How this is this possible? they're 100% unionized as well. they're outsourcing cheap labor on our shores.
and btw, if corporations aren't 'people', then how come governments somewhow are?
"future filled with hope"
Did he just quote Jeremiah? That seems appropriate. Does he realize that Israel's sinful ways and terrible leaders had to be crushed and purged to realise that hope? I think of poor Jeremiah all alone in a cave watching the destruction of his people. I guess he wasn't going for that image. Good thing most Dems are Bible illiterate.
theribbonguy: Which particular policy made him tingle?
When it comes to politics, nobody is "poorly informed."
Politics is about advancing one's self-interest.
Every person in this country knows what that is. It doesn't take an intellectual to grasp one's self-interest.
Wow.
DId I just read several paragraphs of Synova lecturing me on how jobs geared toward supplying operational auto manufacturers with parts, jobs that require an auto manufacturer, did I just hear her proclaim that they do not exist?
Astounding.
The wax has melted. The boy Icarus is falling to earth. With all his education at 'top' schools, apparently he never read the Greeks, who knew all about Obama type characters.
Ok, Shouting. Everyone has access to perfectly complete information. I guess you and I will have to disagree on that one.
YOu and I and anyone who's ever taught a basic economics course.
"DId I just read several paragraphs of Synova lecturing me on...."
No.
This speech was just like every other speech he's given. Boring and phony.
Now you are teasing garage.
You loved every minute of it.
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