Toxic masculinity” has become a catchall term.... But when researchers first began using the term, they meant something narrower and more specific: a culturally endorsed yet harmful set of masculine behaviors characterized by rigid, traditional male traits, such as dominance, aggression and sexual promiscuity. Men trapped in this man box, as it is sometimes called, are less likely to seek medical care and are more likely to engage in risky behaviors detrimental to their health, such as binge drinking or drug use.... Even seemingly positive attributes associated with traditional masculinity, such as providing for one’s family... can have negative health consequences. They may put work ahead of addressing medical concerns.... Or they may take on dangerous jobs or work extreme hours. But why do some men hold so tightly to these cultural notions about masculinity that lead them toward worse health? The answer may be traced to how fragile manhood itself can feel....
August 25, 2025
"How many Americans even know what color the ribbon is for prostate-cancer awareness?"
From "What Does It Take to Get Men to See a Doctor? Men in the U.S. live six fewer years than women. One clinic is trying to persuade men that getting checked out could save their life" (NYT).
60 comments:
Americans have ribbon fatigue. Go away.
Healthcare is expensive. We’re all going to die anyway.
Lots of men have prostate cancer that is diagnosed at autopsy, after they die of something else. Because it is a slow-growing cancer. But now they have the PSA test, they can diagnose it decades before it causes any problems, so they can cause the problems surgically. Ka-Ching! Medicine!
I'm sure all the right people would prefer men to die, as soon as possible. Men are problematic don't ja know!
My PA nagged me to get my PSA and it probably saved my life.
Not so lucky for my high school classmate who died from prostate cancer. His dad was a doctor and he was a smart guy. His Gleason score was over 100. His doc said he'd never seen one so high.
What a line of bullshit.
Plenty of women avoid doctors.
There are lots of good reasons to not want to see a doctor, especially for driven people with daily responsibilities.
Men do manly things because they are men. Nobody asks why women do self-destructive things, except as a setup to blaming it on men.
Women are at least as self-destructive, but men don't have someone to blame it on, or bail them out, and often don't want that. Women easily except help, and often count on it.
We need to get men out of the man box and leave the dangerous jobs to the people in the illegal alien box.
Would the men on this blog be so kind as to comment on "how fragile manhood itself can feel"?
What does that even mean? Do you men have to cling by your fingernails to the concept of manhood, to your identity as men? Are you constantly at risk of losing your sense of manhood - and what do you think is waiting, skulking in the shadows as it were, to take its place?
Helen Reddy convinced me, when I was about five years old, that womanhood was powerful, that a woman was a strong thing to be. But I think I can honestly say that if she hadn't done her roaring thing back then, I very much doubt that I would have "experienced" my womanhood as "fragile." It just is what it is. Is it somehow different for men?
The NYT characterizes a vast segment of adults within the homo sapiens species as helpless children unable to perceive the superior gender wisdom of Helen Ouyang. Please leave us alone, Helen.
John Henry Syndrome (apologies to the commenter). Just as the legendary steel drivin man worked himself to death, a lot of men, including but not limited to minorities for whose physiologies the postwar American diet is poison, work long hours, don’t exercise outside of whatever physical exertions are involved in their work, and eat trash.
RR
JSM
(PS: John Mosby syndrome is when you get lots of exercise riding all over the place and kidnapping generals, then you live to 83!)
Men are whack to ignore prostrate, blood pressure, blood sugar issues. It is just flat out stupid. You can get all of those tests except psa from walmart for $40 bucks. If you have ANY medical coverage at all, those tests are almost free. Get a yearly physical you idiots.
The PSA screening test is discouraged for men over 70, literally because they assume that men that old will die of something else before any prostate cancer could kill them. That's how the health system views men.
A very old black triple-Harvard-degreed lawyer/Episcopalian priest in my building once said, based on his own experience, that every man gets prostate cancer, and if you live long enough, you get it twice. He is still alive and kicking.
RR
JSM
The medical community goes back and forth on the PSA tests. When I see them recommending against it, because it's 'slow moving' and 'old man's disease', I perceive that this is the administrative arm of medicine deciding that these tests cost money that Medicare Advantage Plans don't need to spend.
The use of that word 'Advantage' is a clue - the advantage of the plan they're selling falls to them, not the customer. I know someone that decided to use his imagination instead of insisting on testing and diagnosis. Once diagnosed, he decided against surgery because of concerns of masculinity and incontinence. Now he's getting androgen shots, and has no testosterone. He's not yet 70, but Stage 4, into his bones, and getting weaker and more depressed by the day, giving up. It's painful to see it. You have to be your own advocate in medical issues, and you have to focus. Prostate cancer is a battle best fought early.
We can always try shaming men.
Or offer them ribbons.
I once was on a flight where there was a young mother and her rambunctious toddler son right behind me. She tried to keep him calm, which only worked sort of you might imagine. I told her his behavior did not bother me. We need people who jump out of airplanes and run into burning buildings. Her son may well be one, this is how they start out. She liked that thought.
The ribbon should be camo, and designed so that it can be used to strangle a bear.
Would the men on this blog be so kind as to comment on "how fragile manhood itself can feel"?
Dunno. My lady doctor says that my recent PSA is at the high end of normal, and she said to get an appointment with a urologist. So I did. I suspect that she didn't want me to assume the position in her office.
- Krumhorn
Sex is a choice. Medical care is a choice. Let's begin with the assumption that men and women have the capacity for informed choice.
My doctor has left the practice. Health problems that nobody is willing to talk about (HIPAA applies to doctors as well as patients?). Anyway, the other doctors I've called are scheduling physicals almost a year in advance, so I'm still shopping. With so many doctors leaving the profession and so much paperwork involved, yearly physicals aren't as effortless to arrange as they used to be.
¬
About masculinity and doctors: is it really about masculinity or fragility? People put things off. They don't like to worry about things that aren't an immediate concern. They aren't "proactive." They'll "get around to it sometime."
This may be more common among men than among women, but is it really something to gauge one's masculinity by? Are men really fighting to preserve some fragile sense of masculinity by not going to the doctor?
And I said, "may be more common." I suspect procrastination, especially where doctor visits are concerned, is as common in some female demographics as it is among men.
I had to ask my care provider to add the PSA to my lab work a couple of years ago, because I never had one done before that. She did, and it was normal, but I must wonder if I had waited until our medical group deigned to add it to the protocol, what the results might have been.
[Kramer is cornered in an alley for not wearing the red ribbon at the AIDS walk]
Bob: So, what's it going to be? Are you going to wear the ribbon?
Cosmo Kramer: No! Never!
Bob: But I'm wearing wearing the ribbon.
[points to Cedric]
Bob: He's wearing the ribbon. We are all wearing the ribbon! So why aren't *you* going to wear the ribbon?
Cosmo Kramer: [yelling] This is America! I don't have to wear anything I don't wanna wear!
Cedric: What are we going to do with him?
Cosmo Kramer: Huh?
Bob: I guess we will just have to teach him to wear the ribbon!
[Kramer to escape up the fire escape, but is dragged down by the other AIDS walkers]
Men go quicker because we get nagged to death…
Narrower and more specific. Those rigid traditional female traits, poisonous femininity. Let’s spend a few years ripping those apart and see how valued and respected women feel.
Why don’t we accept both ends of the pendulum? There are a$$holes and evil people at both ends - don’t think those are sex specific.
Imagine measuring masculinity by an intricate knowledge of colored ribbon. Yeah. Sad!
I must be missing something. Quest Labs charges about $65 for a PSA test. So thats $10 a year if you have it once every five years. And it is a blood test, not an embarassing rear-end
test. I don't understand why this is any kind of issue (except that maybe men don't want to know). Related thing with colonoscopies after 75, though they are more intrusive. But
it's not just "oh, you'll die of something sooner with colon
cancers." It's, if you're 80 years old, you are probably in more
danger from the surgery than the polyps. Insurance issues may enter into some of this, but let's not go all Luigi about it.
What a great world it would be if men were cured and nobody would take dangerous jobs.
"Anyway, the other doctors I've called are scheduling physicals almost a year in advance, "
Oddly, in the millions of migrants Biden invited in, walking over the border, very very few of them are doctors and nurses, and yet they all need medical care... Being a doctor is not like being a truck driver, you know, apparently you can walk over the border and get a CDL license in California for just registering to vote illegally.
"One clinic is trying to persuade men that getting checked out could save their life."
Men, plural. They do not share one life. Each man has his own life. Together they have lives, plural. Jesus Christ on a stick! These NYT editors are university graduates, and they can't even master simple English grammar.
Before blogs there were message boards and guestbooks. My favorite hangout was Carolyn's and she had "The most comprehensive ribbon list on the 'Net". You are welcome to check it out.
BTW, men are all aware of prostate cancer. Very aware. But you know...
I was just in Home Depot in the plumbing section and there was a doctor there on the phone with his office, talking about a patient who, according to him in this overheard conversation, had refused colonoscopies, and now she was having her colon removed. She... just saying.
There is toxic masculinity.
Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, and Doug Emhoff are all perfect examples of controlling rapists who demean and attack women while exhibiting greed and hedonism as primary motivations.
Cutting the cord... ribbon is a milestone in human evolution.
Jamie said...
Would the men on this blog be so kind as to comment on "how fragile manhood itself can feel"?
I think you described it perfectly for normal people of all kinds.
I'll add that--despite or maybe because of the Hellen Reddy song-- I've always regarded fragility as a feminine trait. Masculinity is not fragile.
While we are on the subject of colon cancer it won’t be long before you cannot talk about colon cancer without bringing up vegetable oil much the same way cigarettes and lung cancer are paired.
At least McDonald’s uses tallow now.
Ribbon Awareness Campaign (tongue in cheek)
"Everyday, thousands of impoverished ribbons are inhumanely sliced up into pieces so their fabric can be made into cheap clothes produced in ribbon sweatshops. Others are forced into bondage and made to hang on their master's shirt. They live in constant fear; many have gone underground, living in vans down by the river.
They need your help. By pasting this ribbon on your page, you spread the word about the monstrosities that are committed against ribbons."
After 75, many docs in the US are reluctant to test for prostate cancer. The reasons they give are pretty lame.
“Helen Reddy convinced me, when I was about five years old, that womanhood was powerful, that a woman was a strong thing to be.”
Meh… Helen died in 2020, while her coke head/manager/ex-husband Jeff Wald died in 2021. 🤔
Suck it, Helen!
There's some cross messaging between the doctors saying have the PSA test and those saying that after a certain age don't bother with it.
¬
Setting up a straw man - the strong, silent man - and then knocking the straw man down, calling the man weak and cowardly and fragile is a common practice in recent years. Are "strong women" similarly weak and breakable deep down inside?
It seems that this chronic inability to make nouns agree in number stems from misgendering paranoia. Every Democrat must, on pain of social cancellation, use they/them formulations at all times, in all situations, avoiding he and she even when the biological sex of the subject is know. They can't even use it when referencing a non-human animal, e.g. using woke they/them constructs when referring to molluscs. Is everyone at the New York Times clinically mad?
Jamie said...
Would the men on this blog be so kind as to comment on "how fragile manhood itself can feel"?
I would if I'd ever felt that way, but I never have.
What does that even mean?
No idea. I can tell you though that that's the kind of stuff you get out leftie women like the one that wrote the NYT article. It's basically a stab at snarky female supremacy designed to make her feel superior. I know the author would be so mad she'd drop about big load in her Spanx if she read that, but it is what it is.
Do you men have to cling by your fingernails to the concept of manhood, to your identity as men? Are you constantly at risk of losing your sense of manhood - and what do you think is waiting, skulking in the shadows as it were, to take its place?
No, mostly I feel like I'm unappreciated, but along the lines of what Bagoh is saying above; no one wants to hear men complain so what's the use in doing so?
Or men die earlier because they want to was the old "joke".
Awareness ribbons. Anyone with an awareness ribbon on his lapel or, God help us, the image of an awareness ribbon attached to his automobile, is someone a chasm in his mentality wide enough to drive an armored division through sideways. Just what does the ribbon-bedecked one mean to communicate? If it's anything other than See my creds? I'm better than you are, the wearer is a dunce.
Yancey Ward stole my line.
It's something to consider when viewing the nonsense we've lived through for the past 40 years.
Brown? Is the color brown?
"The ribbon should be camo, and designed so that it can be used to strangle a bear."
I like it. Tactical prostate ribbons.
If you are a mentally healthy adult male, there's nothing fragile about manhood. You is what you is, so to speak. I'm almost 82 now--when I was younger and dumber I could and did work 120 or more days at a stretch without a break if that's what it took to get a project done, You do that several times and you learn when and how your body will tell you total exhaustion and collapse is imminent. The trick was to get the project done before that happened. Then you go rest. Would I do that again? In a New York minute--of course I'd have to be the same age.
As for prostate cancer--yeah, I had it. Diagnosis was in my late 70s and acute radiation made it go away. My primary care physician monitors its return by means of an annual PSA test. Does spare me assuming the position at the annual physical. I will say that manhood is in your head--not necessarily in the rest of your body.
OK, so let's as they say "follow the science". Over time the incidence of prostate cancer per 100 000 men (age adjusted) has nudged up slightly. More screening, more Incidence, so no surprise there. Death rate per same cohort has nudged down slightly. Steady odds that about 1/6 men with prostate cancer die "of it". Background: family history or black ethnicity puts men at an increased risk, especially for the "outside of norms" early and aggressive version that likely accounts for many of the deaths from, versus with, prostate cancer. But it remains an odd disease, one where predictions are difficult. In general, screen earlier in the higher risk groups mentioned. The decreased death rate per 100 adjusted K might come from treating those guys. Also in general, screen average risk guys in the cohort where its reasonable. Opinions vary, but 40 to 70 is in the ball park. After 70 its a judgement call. Don't screen in guys who won't live to 80? Maybe do so in real healthy guys with a family history of turning the odometer over past 90? There's casualties on the sidelines of either aggressive or conservative screening. Some guys have much reduced quality of life after major surgery. What odds of living longer would you accept at age 65 in exchange for permanent incontinence? Some who should have said yes to screening die of prostate cancer, and a nasty death it is. There are other ways to improve your odds of living long and well, other conditions to ward off. Me, I'd do a lot to reduce odds of a stroke that would leave me a burden to my family. Some other easy calls....if I get pancreatic cancer I'm going to spend all available time partying with whatever energy my old carcass retains! Men can make their own decisions. https://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/prost.html
Blue?
I have become skeptical of arguments based on life expectancy because a simple average is hugely influenced by deaths at early ages (the average life expectancy of a population of 2 where one dies at 2 and the other at 100 is 51 years). Men generally have a lower overall life expectancy due to early non-medical deaths so unless you are explicitly stating a difference in years to live at a given age it is hard to judge.
Dave Begley said "His Gleason score was over 100. His doc said he'd never seen one so high."
A Gleason score is the sum of two grades from 1 to 5, so the maximum Gleason is 10.
Nonetheless, I think the fact that most men are not conversant with Gleason scores and PSA levels does tend to bear out the idea that better education would be helpful.
Just want to jump in here because I'm seeing some misinformation about prostate cancer here. Men, it's not something to ignore.
There are three "speeds" of prostate cancer. Copied this from elsewhere:
1. Slow-growing (Indolent): These cancers grow very slowly, often remain confined to the prostate, and may not cause significant symptoms or require immediate treatment. They are typically low-grade, with lower Gleason scores (e.g., 6 or below) and lower PSA levels. Active surveillance is often recommended for these.
2. Intermediate (Moderately aggressive): These cancers grow at a moderate pace and have a higher potential to spread beyond the prostate if untreated. They typically have intermediate Gleason scores (e.g., 7) and may require treatments like surgery or radiation, depending on other factors like stage and patient health.
3. Fast-growing (Aggressive): These are high-grade cancers that grow quickly and are more likely to spread (metastasize) to other parts of the body, such as lymph nodes or bones. They often have high Gleason scores (8–10) and elevated PSA levels. Aggressive cancers usually require more intensive treatments, such as hormone therapy, chemotherapy, or advanced targeted therapies.
So, they are NOT ALL THE SAME. About half are Slow Growing, 40% Intermediate, 10% Fast Growing.
You might say "I like those odds!" but in that case you haven't read this far.
I thought conventional wisdom was it was selfless mothers who didn't seek medical care enough?
I do have to badger my wife to go to the doctor.
One thing we can be sure of: If women don't see the doctor enough, it's men's fault. On the other hand, if men don't see the doctor enough, it's men's fault.
We grew up on cowboy movies, and riding off into the sunset seems kind of natural. It's not an imposition, it's Romantic in the original sense of the term, the Romantic era, I mean, the renunciative hero meets his tragic end. People loved those books because the resonate with human nature.
As for fragile hold on manhood. Only a woman could come up with that one, since they have a harder time understanding us, I think, than we have understanding them.
I just checked Grok. There are more cases per 100,000 of breast cancer than prostate cancer. Must be something to do with how fragile the sense of femininity is.
So what color is the ribbon, and how many Americans know it?
We're hoping that my son will be released from the hospital today. He went in last Tuesday because an abcessed tooth got infected.
They have used barrels of high-end antibiotics, and he'll need them for at least another week--then maybe they can do a root canal, which was already scheduled for the day after he was hospitalized. Did he delay dealing with it too long from an excess of guyness?
He's about as doctor-shy as I am, which is about average AFAIK.
How did I know the author was a woman before I read the article?
Everybody knows there's always a color and nobody pays any attention to ribbons. The last successful such campaign was the pussy hat, and everybody got that wrong thinking it was a physical representation of a vulva and not cat ears. Limbaugh, cleaning it up, always called them vagina hats.
If they wanted that kind of pussy they'd have used garrison caps.
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