July 28, 2025

"The solipsistic escapism of post-grunge lived on earlier this month too, when Alpine Valley [Wisconsin] became a respite from the real world...."

"A few festivalgoers wore their politics on their sleeves in the form of T-shirts about 'Making the Gulf America Again,' but there were more faux campaign tees emblazoned with Creed ’24 ('Take Me Higher') than MAGA shirts.... Eventually, it was time for Creed to close out the festival.... [A]ll eyes were on front man Scott Stapp, who looks fit and focused.... [I]t was fascinating to watch him interrogate his own failings and turn them into inspiration for the audience... issuing Facebook status wisdom like, 'The past is the past — it does not define today'.... Things threatened to come off the rails when Stapp was at his most political. The meandering message touched on surveillance, taxes, bank runs, credit card interest rates and the true meaning of 'power to the people.' 'If you want change, stop being gaslit by the media, the government and by everyone in charge,' he said conspiratorially, before course-correcting and calling for positive, constructive change — not disruptive anarchy. Then the band launched into 'One,' an anti-affirmative-action missive that preaches unity and now sounds like the theme song to the All Lives Matter movement...."

Writes Chris Kelly, in "I went to see the world’s most hated bands party like it’s 1999/Creed, Nickelback and other leading lights of the post-grunge era explored the nostalgic limits of rock’s most reviled sound at the Summer of ’99 and Beyond Festival" (WaPo).

That's a free-access link, so you can see some interesting photographs of the deplorable crowd and a good overview of the Alpine Valley setup. Maybe you're planning to — or wonder if you should — go to Alpine Valley to see Bob Dylan there on September 19th. I went to Alpine Valley. Once. It was 2 decades ago. I would not go back. Not for Bob. And therefore not for anybody.

64 comments:

Dave Begley said...

And Dylan will certainly give the same disappointing performance he gave in Omaha. No hits or favs. Mostly crappy new stuff from his latest album. Sad!

peachy said...

testing

phantommut said...

"I traveled to an amphitheater outside Milwaukee to see if there’s any joy to be drawn from nostalgia, or if this school of rock has simply curdled like Wisconsin dairy products in the summer sun."

Life of the party. And we know which Party.

Seriously, when did our cultural betters decide pissing on all joy in life was a good way to win heart and minds?

Immanuel Rant said...

How many "Gorillas in the Mist" articles can they possibly write about literally *anything* in flyover country?

Mr. D said...

A Wapo writer accusing others of solipsism? He musta pulled a thesaurus out of his navel.

The Genius Savant said...

Why wouldn't you go there again? Alpine is a great venue!

Lazarus said...

Are there actual mountains in Wisconsin? Or just a lot of Germanic people?

Achilles said...

Bezos isn't getting his money's worth from the WAPO. Running a globalist pravda rag isn't getting him much return with the oligarch crowd anymore because Trump is removing the taxpayer money spigot one parasite at a time.

Iman said...

May your hand always be busy
May the Kleenex be close at hand
May you have some Jergen’s Lotion
Within reach on your nightstand
May your heart always be joyful
May your bell always be rung
And may you stay forever dumb
May you stay forever dumb

Leland said...

I’ll admit to never really being a Dylan fan. That’s not to say I don’t like him. I just don’t follow him closely enough to be called a fan or interested in seeing him. I did watch the biopic movie on him during a flight. Going by the movie, they made a point of noting Dylan hates playing hits or favs when he performs. He seems to like coming up with new stuff and bringing the fresh new stuff at every performance. A greatest hits live performance seems the antithesis of a Dylan concert.

peachy said...

Not a free link on my end.

peachy said...

oh wait - they ask for an e-mail. Ugh. just no.

peachy said...

The Soviet Democrats demand all music artists comply. If you do not - you will be labeled a deplorable.

tommyesq said...

"Most hated bands" - Creed has sold 53 million albums worldwide, and Nickelback has sold over 50 million.

tommyesq said...

Also, putting the constant politics aside, when did WaPo writers become so bad? The prose reads like a junior high school pretentious girl trying to hide the lack of underlying point.

tommyesq said...

"Most hated bands" - Creed has sold 53 million albums worldwide, and Nickelback has sold over 50 million.

Oh, forgot to contrast - WaPo has 130,000 print subscribers. Apparently the secret to not being "most hated" is to be "most ignored."

gilbar said...

i remember going there to see UFO, back in the '80's..
it MUST have been pretty good..
i have NO RECOLLECTION of the concert or the ride home

Peachy said...

If Soviet Media are labeling bands as "Most hated" - that is Soviet media acting as Soviet media.

These bands might not be in line with the Soviet Democratics -- which is wrong think. Obey.

Mark said...

"A greatest hits live performance seems the antithesis of a Dylan concert."

Correct. If you want to listen to his old albums, put one on.
If you want to see Dylan perform, you get what is current or relevant to Dylan.

At his age, I doubt the issues of his 20s are something he still needs to work through with song.

phantommut said...

"Most hated bands" by all the people hangs with.

In this future all the cool kids are Pauline Kael.

Reddington said...

Then the band launched into 'One,' an anti-affirmative-action missive that preaches unity and now sounds like the theme song to the All Lives Matter movement

lol i'm old enough to remember when a post-racial society coming together as one was an aspiration

Immanuel Rant said...

By a strange coincidence, I saw Solipsistic Escapism open for Creed in 1994.

RCOCEAN II said...

That blog post from 20 years ago makes the Concert seem like hell on earth.

Jamie said...

Ok. I don't understand the aesthetic sensibility behind not liking popular bands. It just seems precious to me. I'm not saying they have to be your favorite, but why can you not like a thing if lots of other people like it?

(Of course I know the rub is what kind of "other people." But what makes aesthetes so sure that their taste is good taste?

MadTownGuy said...

peachy said...

"oh wait - they ask for an e-mail. Ugh. just no."

Eh. I do it anyway, then unsubscribe when the first email arrives. I did keep the NYT emails coming - their "The Morning" often contains info of interest.

Jupiter said...

"That's a free-access link ...."
No, that's a create-a-WaPo-Account-for-access link. No thanks, Jeff.

jaydub said...

I can do Althouse one better: I wouldn't walk across the street to see Bob Dylan.

Paddy O said...

"Ok. I don't understand the aesthetic sensibility behind not liking popular bands."

Sometimes it's social posturing. Like if a blog posts about a current celebrity, movie, or music someone will often take the time to share about not knowing them or not caring or not owning a tv or gone to the movies since 1975. People don't like to not be "in" so subvert the popular by dismissing it.

Or, sometimes, it's actually aesthetic awareness. A lot of popular musicians or books are actually poor at the craft compared to other less famous alternatives, but have been picked up for other reasons.

Both of these reflect an apparent need to not be among those with bottom of the pyramid tastes, but to express some kind of higher awareness, either by one's own learning or to try to associate with those with such.

A lot of junior high trying to fit in with the popular kids or high school nerds making fun of the jocks type stuff never really goes away.

Eva Marie said...

1. Didn’t want to open an account at the WaPo so I just googled Alpine Valley. Looks like a beautiful venue for concerts.
2. Not playing favorite songs. That was the wonderful thing about Jimmy Buffet. He had a list of 7 songs he always played at every concert. When he was asked if he got tired of doing that, his response was - are you kidding. Those songs bought me my plane.

Paddy O said...

Those who do know the craft, though, often can point out why they find certain bands or books of undesirable quality, and one can learn from them. Sometimes such people are around here in the comments sections, though more in the past than the present.

n.n said...

Affirmative action is Discrimination, Equivocation, and Inequity (DEI). Affirmative action is Levine's Dreams of Herr Mengele. Affirmative action is a wicked solution, planned parenthood, elective abortion of lives deemed unworthy of life. Affirmative action is normalization of qurer sexual orientations.
Affirmative action is forward-looking backward.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Obviously they are NOT the most hated bands if they are headlining a festival still. I've never understood that hipster anti-Nickelback pose. Also didn't realize the stink had rubbed off on Creed too. Althouse has a knack for finding unsympathetic complainants lately, as if the Universe was full of people crying out, yet I'd never know their pain except I read about it here.

Peachy said...

google mapped Alpine Valley event center. Agree - it looks like a very nice venue.

Iman said...

Tain’t no Red Rocks…

Marcus Bressler said...

How many print subscribers does the Washington Post have?
As of 2023, The Washington Post had 130,000 print subscribers.
However, The Washington Post's paid average daily print circulation recently dropped to 97,000, with roughly 160,000 on Sundays. This is a significant decrease from the 250,000 average daily circulation five years ago. (From Google) Can't stop laughing.

Mason G said...

"2. Not playing favorite songs."

I've never understood that mindset. If you don't want to play the songs people want to hear, why are you selling tickets?

Peachy said...

Red Rocks is cool. Everyone should go to a show there at least once to see a favorite band.

Iman said...

Talking Heads @Red Rocks… yes!

Narr said...

Like some others, I back off any link that asks for my email to let me proceed. But I didn't follow this one because I know nothing about today's popular (or unpopular) bands.

Narr said...

I wasn't around here in '04 so missed the Prof's critique . . . what she described is exactly why I stopped going to concerts
where large numbers of young people gather, even if there's a band I like.

john mosby said...

Alpine Valley has a pavillion - why didn't you use that, Prof?

I always get pavillion seats at Wolf Trap, Merriweather, etc. It's the best of both worlds: you still feel like you're outdoors, but you've got the orderliness of auditorium seating.

RR (Rock n Roll!!!)
JSM

john mosby said...

Of course, I am eagerly awaiting the night I can go see Marillion in the pavillion....

(ducks)

RR
JSM

Anthony said...

I don't really like Creed, Nickelback is just kind of Meh to me as well, and Dylan bores the living s*** out of me.

I'm a huge Rush fan so I'm used to not being in the Kool Kidz Klub though.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

While I was never a super fan of Creed or Nickelback, I find that certain songs from both bands are tremendously fun to play when practicing guitar. This has provided me with tons of learning motivation over the years.

Long love the bands that everyone hates.

mccullough said...

I haven’t been to Alpine since Stevie Ray Vaughn’s chopper crash.

Salubrious201 said...

I've been at Alpine Valley for the Outlaw Festival the past two years. Getting in and out is a huge pain, and the whole operation seems like a massive effort to sell overpriced alcohol. On the plus side, there aren't many chances to hear a lineup of legendary artists for $60 a ticket. I've seen Bob quite a few times since 1989, and he always provides an interesting mix of new and old, sometimes throwing in a new cover. If you want to know what to expect, just check out his setlists: https://www.boblinks.com/

Eva Marie said...

I would love to see Bob Dylan perform but he’s not headed out west. And that concert at Alpine Valley looks to be very good. Just a little to far.

Jim at said...

A few festivalgoers wore their politics on their sleeves in the form of T-shirts...

To each his/her own, but I've never owned a piece of clothing depicting my politics let alone wore it at a large gathering of people.

Heck - except for a long-faded NRA sticker on my truck - I've never even sported a bumpersticker.

I don't get it. Why would you announce your politics to complete strangers?

Iman said...

“I haven’t been to Alpine since Stevie Ray Vaughn’s chopper crash.”

Man… I forgot this is where that happened. What a loss to the music world that was.

Jamie said...

Those who do know the craft, though, often can point out why they find certain bands or books of undesirable quality, and one can learn from them.

Yeah.... that was more or less the mindset of my ex, a huge fan of (old, at least) Springsteen (I have no idea how he feels about his last 20 years or so) and of Rush. "Look at the craft!" In both cases it was frankly the overwrought lyrics, though he did appreciate Peart's drumming - not so much out of his own musical sense but because he read in lots of magazines that he was the godfather of percussion.

What I'm getting at is that a good toe-tapper or shower song can come from anywhere, and just like a liking for, say, McDonald's french fries, it's a bit self-conscious to decry everything declasse when perhaps you secretly enjoy some of it. The emotion of shame (which appears to me to be the driver behind a lot of people's "Nickelback, ew!" response) is wasted on such things. Save shame for things you should actually be ashamed of.

But I'd also add that there's a difference between knowing the "craft" of music and knowing the "craft" of writing - and despite the fact that you can demonstrate skill at music in a way you cannot in writing, in either case, if what you create is unappealing to almost everyone, maybe it's you.

Btw, I am also, more or less unabashedly, a fan of overwrought lyrics.

Mark said...

That Stevie Ray show is one of the best I have seen there. Getting in and out was a nightmare then and has barely improved.

Have only been in the pavilion if I go there of late. All the benefits of the outdoor space but with good sound, sight lines, and a little less wondering why its now wet when I sit on the grass.

Sean said...

Nickleback isn't hated. It is simply the butt of jokes. Like, cool an alternative rock band... oh it is Nickleback. People enjoy their songs but likely think it isn't "real" alternative. I thought Creed was out of favor due to their Christian focus. Not edgy enough for the cool kids.

WhoKnew said...

Lazarus: You got it, no mountains in Wisconsin but lots of Germans. (I have often said that if Wisconsin had mountains, it would be perfect). I haven't been to Alpine Valley in decades because I don't deal with crowds that size anymore. But I saw some great bands there; Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Manhattan Transfer. I saw the Dead there once, too. One of only two concerts I bailed on. I was bored and beating the traffic jam on the way out was worth far more than the last hour of the concert.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
john mosby said...

Jim at: "I don't get it. Why would you announce your politics to complete strangers?"

Signs, bumper stickers, and other merch are the only ways the silent majority can tell each other they're not alone.

I recall a major sub-theme in the comments here during the late campaign was the lawn-sign count, as a more accurate estimate than the polls.

RR
JSM

john mosby said...

"Boycott Jane Fonda - American Traitor Bitch" was a popular bumper sticker in the 80s, when she was getting big movie roles and the MSM never mentioned her AA gunnery.

Related, the POW-MIA flag became such a cultural phenomenon that it's now a fixed feature of government buildings, no matter which party.

RR
JSM

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Sean said...

Nickleback isn't hated. It is simply the butt of jokes. Like, cool an alternative rock band... oh it is Nickleback. People enjoy their songs but likely think it isn't "real" alternative.

I think Nickleback has the same problem a lot of other Canadian bands have; Canada's cultural protectionism makes it a lot easier for them to get recorded and get played on the radio up there. They don't spend their early careers having to be as competitive as the US and UK acts and don't develop the edge those bands do.

I thought Creed was out of favor due to their Christian focus. Not edgy enough for the cool kids.

I think hate is mostly focused on Scott Stapp for that reason.

Jim at said...

Signs, bumper stickers, and other merch are the only ways the silent majority can tell each other they're not alone.

Or maybe the silent majority can send the signal they're not alone by not having their cars plastered with political stickers.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Jamie said...

Yeah.... that was more or less the mindset of my ex, a huge fan of (old, at least) Springsteen (I have no idea how he feels about his last 20 years or so) and of Rush. "Look at the craft!" In both cases it was frankly the overwrought lyrics...

I'm somewhat in the same camp as your ex, however, it's not the overwrought lyrics as much as the fact that a lot of cases they're just not good. After Born To Run Bruce got conned by John Landau into believing he was John Steinbeck reincarnated, which he ain't. (Mellencamp suffers from the same affliction.). I'm little more forgiving to Rush, they had some good periods but there were times I'd swear that they were using lyrics Peart had written back in Junior High.

Josephbleau said...

No mountains in Wisconsin? Go to the Baraboos, in addition to Precambrian quartzite there is volcanic rhyolite flow breccia of Proterozoic age! And the gem of the Midwest, Devils lake.

MC said...

Alpine Valley is a great venue for music and atmosphere, but exiting a concert is awful. It took an hour to get out of the Tyler Childers concert last weekend.

walter said...

No worries, Althouse. I predict minimal "playing beanbag" at Bobfest. What became of Tonya?

walter said...

With likely prevalence of emphasema in crowd, the oxygen bar may make an atypical appearance.

Ann Althouse said...

"No worries, Althouse. I predict minimal "playing beanbag" at Bobfest."

I only went that one time, but I've been in Wisconsin for 40 years. I'm going to assume that with those numbers and the outdoor setting, that there will be tailgating and there will be beanbag (AKA cornhole). There's nothing about Bob that's going to make it not Wisconsin. He used to live here, you know. He's drunk a lot of beer.

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