Althouse: "I don't give a shit whether the upper middle class and Beverly Hills in Bel Air have got to pay actual American citizens to do their lawn or, you know, clean their gutters."

July 1, 2025

"I don't give a shit whether the upper middle class and Beverly Hills in Bel Air have got to pay actual American citizens to do their lawn or, you know, clean their gutters."

"And people say, oh, we'll never get American citizens to do it. Well, hey, if you have to pay a decent wage in a competitive market because you don't have millions of illegal aliens that are prepared to work for slave... look, we can't have a country that's based upon servitude. That's what this is."

Said Steve Bannon, quoted in "Steve Bannon’s Battle for the Soul of MAGA," today's episode of the NYT podcast "The Daily" (audio and transcript at Podscribe).

72 comments:

traditionalguy said...: Bannon is one tough guy. And he knows it.; 7/1/25, 10:29 AM
Lazarus said...: One thing some viewers found incredible about "Mad Men" was that 60 years ago, highly paid professionals mowed their own lawns and cleaned their own gutters.; 7/1/25, 10:30 AM
Political Junkie said...: Lazzarus. Remeber the scene where Don was driving by the old house and saw Henry out "cutting" the grass?; 7/1/25, 10:32 AM
RideSpaceMountain said...: Some people loved their slaves. Some just can't give them up and have been griping about it since forever. Neither can their favorite political party.; 7/1/25, 10:34 AM
FormerLawClerk said...: How many employers has Donald Trump arrested?

The CEO of Tyson Foods REFUSES to hire American citizens. He ONLY hires illegal aliens. It is the same for the meat packers in the United States. They ONLY hire illegal aliens.

Not a single fucking one of them has been arrested. It's a FELONY CRIME what they're doing. Not to mention how they're cheating the federal government out of tax money that would be paid in if they had to pay competitive wages for American citizens.

Donald Trump has already been pushed by the restaurant and hotel industry to relax his stance on the hiring of illegal aliens and the removal of those already here.

Trump: “Our great farmers and people in the hotel and leisure business have been stating that our very aggressive policy on immigration is taking very good, long time workers away from them, with those jobs being almost impossible to replace.”

Trump is himself in the leisure business. His golf courses and hotels employ THOUSANDS of illegal aliens.

They are safe with Trump protecting them. The Republican-controlled Senate just guaranteed these illegal aliens free health care.

I can't figure out why the illegals are freaking out. Trump is their best buddy.; 7/1/25, 10:37 AM
Achilles said...: Watching the urban elite and the laptop class lose their unearned status and wealth is enjoyable.

I remember Howard saying a lot of things about where wealth was created in this country.

I would be interested to hear what the new and improved Howard has to say about this. His posts have been insightful since the election.; 7/1/25, 10:39 AM
Original Mike said...: "Remeber the scene where Don was driving by the old house and saw Henry out "cutting" the grass?"

I don't remember when "mowing the lawn" replaced "cutting the grass". It was always "cutting the grass" when I was growing up.; 7/1/25, 10:41 AM
Original Mike said...: You want to fix "income inequality"? Stop importing illegals.; 7/1/25, 10:43 AM
Two-eyed Jack said...: Original Mike said "I don't remember when "mowing the lawn" replaced "cutting the grass". It was always "cutting the grass" when I was growing up."

What did you use to cut it back then? A grass cutter or a lawn mower?; 7/1/25, 10:46 AM
narciso said...: the scam was illustrated by strother martins snake cult in Harper, it was the front for an illegal smuggling ring,; 7/1/25, 10:46 AM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...: Political Junkie said...

Lazzarus. Remeber the scene where Don was driving by the old house and saw Henry out "cutting" the grass?

I remember that scene and if I remember correctly he was using a push mower.; 7/1/25, 10:47 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Grok: "The shift from "cutting the grass" to "mowing the lawn" started in the early 20th century and solidified by the mid-20th century, driven by lawnmower adoption and suburban culture. It signifies a move toward mechanization, middle-class aesthetics, and linguistic specificity. The change reflects how small shifts in technology and society can reshape everyday language."; 7/1/25, 10:47 AM
MikeD said...: It's also a good way to get the single with no children off Medicaid & SNAP.; 7/1/25, 10:48 AM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...: Lazarus said...

One thing some viewers found incredible about "Mad Men" was that 60 years ago, highly paid professionals mowed their own lawns and cleaned their own gutters.

I suspect an equal number of viewers would have been amazed to find out that those highly paid professionals only did that until their male children hit puberty, then it became the kid's job.; 7/1/25, 10:50 AM
Original Mike said...: "Grok: "The shift from "cutting the grass" to "mowing the lawn" started in the early 20th century and solidified by the mid-20th century,"

Our family was always a little old fashion, I guess.; 7/1/25, 10:53 AM
Original Mike said...: "What did you use to cut it back then? A grass cutter or a lawn mower?"

I think lawn mower, IIRC.; 7/1/25, 10:55 AM
Joe Bar said...: There's a topic on X that's gained some traction: "Why isn't anyone hiring young US men?" The jobs mentioned aren't white-collar, either. Perhaps a hard reboot is really needed.; 7/1/25, 10:58 AM
Original Mike said...: "I suspect an equal number of viewers would have been amazed to find out that those highly paid professionals only did that until their male children hit puberty, then it became the kid's job."

Yep. Became my job. Never having had children, I've always had to do it myself.; 7/1/25, 10:59 AM
gspencer said...: Wealthy lefties w/regard to your domestic help: Pay your fair share.; 7/1/25, 11:04 AM
Douglas B. Levene said...: Bannon’s a dweeb.; 7/1/25, 11:06 AM
Rusty said...: Achilles said... 10:39
He was trolling us. Then he saw which direction his 401K going.; 7/1/25, 11:08 AM
Old and slow said...: Rhhardin uses a scythe to cut the grass, much like the grim reaper.; 7/1/25, 11:11 AM
effinayright said...: Lazarus said...

One thing some viewers found incredible about "Mad Men" was that 60 years ago, highly paid professionals mowed their own lawns and cleaned their own gutters.
***********

The only scene I remember as being totally false came when the Draper family finished up a picnic by tossing their blanket into the air and littering the grass with all their paper cups, plates and other trash.

In that social class, that just wasn't done.

(except maybe by the Kennedys, notorious for being the seagulls of Cape Cod. Restauranteurs hated to see them coming, as they knew they wouldn't pay their bill, just "Chew and Screw."); 7/1/25, 11:15 AM
narciso said...: he's dealt enough with these sorts on both coasts,; 7/1/25, 11:16 AM
rehajm said...: Yes, Bannon is a doofus but he recites some basic economic principles that are always in tension in a market economy..; 7/1/25, 11:16 AM
Marcus Bressler said...: For a few short months after we moved to NJ and left our riding mower behind in PA, I had to cut the grass with a rotary blade push mower. Let me tell you, I never procrastinated again (as a 12 year old) as the longer grass was the devil to cut.; 7/1/25, 11:17 AM
Original Mike said...: "I suspect an equal number of viewers would have been amazed to find out that those highly paid professionals only did that until their male children hit puberty, then it became the kid's job."

For some reason, it remained my job even after my younger brother got old enough to do it. Probably because I did a good job and he did a shitty job.; 7/1/25, 11:21 AM
Original Mike said...: Shoot. Italics off.; 7/1/25, 11:22 AM
Lazarus said...: Not everybody grew up with a lawn, so if you got your first house and first lawn mower at about the same time, it was always "mow the lawn."

Sitdown mowers came later. I remember my parents laughing about the guy who moved to the suburbs and spent every weekend riding his "paramour."; 7/1/25, 11:35 AM
Smilin' Jack said...: "I don't give a shit whether the upper middle class and Beverly Hills in Bel Air have got to pay actual American citizens to do their lawn or, you know, clean their gutters."

There are already robots that will mow your lawn and clean your gutters. And now they’ll get better and cheaper faster.; 7/1/25, 11:44 AM
ronetc said...: Thornton Wilder, "Our Town," set 1901-1913, with newspaper publisher Mr Webb mowing his own grass: "one man in ten thinks it's a privilege to push his own lawn-mower."; 7/1/25, 11:52 AM
JIM said...: Unscrupulous capitalism is to blame; like the polluted rivers and streams of mostly yesteryear, a clean environment is now much the norm. Time to pay farmworkers far more than burger flippers. And there definitely needs to be a more robust guest worker visa process. Make being a legal resident the norm.; 7/1/25, 12:02 PM
Gospace said...: Smilin' Jack said...
There are already robots that will mow your lawn and clean your gutters. And now they’ll get better and cheaper faster.

And they're heavily advertised. Perfect for most suburban homeowners on a previously manicured lot. Not so perfect on 8½ acres of brush and field and swamp.; 7/1/25, 12:11 PM
Just an old country lawyer said...: 1. As a skinny, but robust, teenage male living in a suburb of Atlanta during the sixties, I cut the grass and cleaned the gutters. My father was always prepared for my attempts to shirk my duties. "But Pa, it's Labor Day, a holiday!" "Labor means work. Go on outside and cut the grass."
2. Aren't the people complaining about losing their slave wage employees part of the same crowd that is always itching to raise the minimum wage?; 7/1/25, 12:15 PM
tommyesq said...: Not a single fucking one of them has been arrested. It's a FELONY CRIME what they're doing.

Sure, that is why you were pounding the table on this issue during the Biden administration.; 7/1/25, 12:18 PM
tommyesq said...: Bannon’s a dweeb.

Can we assume from your failure to rebut that you think Bannon, however dweeby, is correct on this issue?; 7/1/25, 12:19 PM
bagoh20 said...: It's a bit dishonest. Most illegals make damned good money doing what they do. You don't tell some Mexican guy who is going to do your yard work that you won't pay him what he wants because he's not legal. You don't even know that. You pay his price like any worker.
They have busineses, buy houses, send kids to private school, college, buy cars, go on vacations, and raise big families. Just like everyone else, they do well if they're industrious. I've known many over the years, and saw it happen.
Now, under the new immigration sensibility, the atmosphere has changed dramatically. Most are panicked by the new enforcement that never existed before. It's shown me that some people I thought were legal are not. They are suddenly wary when they never were before. It's a huge change.; 7/1/25, 12:28 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: principles that are always in tension

That requires some explanation. How do you keep a principle in tension?; 7/1/25, 12:28 PM
Deep State Reformer said...: Yah. Everybody wants everybody else to Buy American! However when they look at the American price tag their eyes pop out and they stutter uncontrollably. Go figure? Did the"invisible hand" stick a finger down their throat?; 7/1/25, 12:31 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Just an old country lawyer said...
2. Aren't the people complaining about losing their slave wage employees part of the same crowd that is always itching to raise the minimum wage?
Yes, they are. Because one of the major purposes of raising the minimum wage is to make Americans' not price competitive with illegals.

Because Americans with jobs are far more likely to vote Republican; 7/1/25, 12:32 PM
bagoh20 said...: On my 1.2 acres I don't have a blade of grass beyond some occasional weeds. Somehow the property used to be mostly grass 30 years ago, but today that would cost at least $1000/ month just in water, and it would still probably all die in by July 4th. I embrace the stoic beauty of the rock and cactus. Their tenacity and stubbornness sends a message.; 7/1/25, 12:37 PM
effinayright said...: Original Mike said...

For some reason, it remained my job even after my younger brother got old enough to do it. Probably because I did a good job and he did a shitty job.
*****************
I suspect that was his plan all along, thinking: "If I do a shitty job, the folks will never ask me to do it again."

It's called "strategic incompetence".; 7/1/25, 12:37 PM
Rocco said...: Lazarus said...
Not everybody grew up with a lawn… Sitdown mowers came later. I remember my parents laughing about the guy who moved to the suburbs and spent every weekend riding his "paramour."

In 2008, we moved from an urban neighborhood with a house on a 1/5 acre lot to the suburbs with a 1/3 acre lot. Part of me has always suspected that the minimum of a 1/3 acre was mandated by someone who owned a lawn service or a riding mower dealership.; 7/1/25, 12:39 PM
Old and slow said...: Bagoh20 seems to be the only one who understands that Mexicans do not work for slave wages. Though their presence in the labor force drives down wages for comparable jobs. On balance, I'd say that more immigration means more wealth for everyone. We do need to make building new housing MUCH easier though.; 7/1/25, 12:40 PM
MadTownGuy said...: Ann Althouse said...
Grok: "The shift from "cutting the grass" to "mowing the lawn" started in the early 20th century and solidified by the mid-20th century, driven by lawnmower adoption and suburban culture. It signifies a move toward mechanization, middle-class aesthetics, and linguistic specificity. The change reflects how small shifts in technology and society can reshape everyday language."

Shorter version: they're both idioms, shaped by changing technology. If you like your idiom, you can keep your idiom.; 7/1/25, 12:54 PM
effinayright said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/1/25, 12:55 PM
effinayright said...: tommyesq said...

Hopelessly Credulous Fake Law Clerk said:

"Not a single fucking one of them has been arrested. It's a FELONY CRIME what they're doing."

Sure, that is why you were pounding the table on this issue during the Biden administration.
**************
Note further:

*No CEO or high exec at Tyson farms ever said they would hire only illegals.

* "A Tyson Foods associate director of human resources named Garrett Dolan made statements about the company's hiring plans, but these were **misrepresented** in a March 2024 Scripps News article that was later retracted. The **retracted story** claimed that Tyson "wants to hire 52,000 asylum seekers for factory jobs."--- AI Claude

*40% of meatpacking workers are citizens, and the illegals generally come armed with faked papers. That makes it easy for owners to (wink wink) claim they didn't hire them knowing they were illegals.

"The meatpacking industry does rely heavily on immigrant labor - immigrants make up an estimated 40 percent of the U.S. meat processing workforce- Newsweek and around 23% of workers in the meatpacking industry are undocumented according to Wired Magazine. However, this appears to be a result of the industry's labor needs and working conditions rather than explicit corporate policies to hire only undocumented workers."-- AI Claude

(of course, the citizens whose identities were stolen by those illegals have to go thgouh serious trouble to get them back)

* Trump does NOT hire thousands of illegals. Years ago, someone found a dozen or so, and they were fired. "In 2018-2019, Eric Trump announced the company would begin using E-Verify to confirm employees' immigration status." ---AI Claude

A lot of us have wondered what Law Clerk's prior handle was.

By now, it's very clear. It was Roseanne Roseannadanna.

Never mind.; 7/1/25, 12:57 PM
stlcdr said...: How many people actually work for minimum wage? In KY it is 7.25. The actual wages are so far above, that it's a meaningless number. And should be. People should be paid for the value they add, not because of what a remote politician has deemed you are worth.

I'm sure that illegals are paid more than minimum wage, but less that what a legal worker would be paid (I don't know, but its a WAG). The fact that the employer pays another ~7% on top of that for legal workers. Plus the government taking a percentage of whatever you give the employee. The actual exchange of take home dollars to value is what counts to the employee and the employer effectively making up the difference.; 7/1/25, 1:18 PM
Original Mike said...: "I suspect that was his plan all along, thinking: "If I do a shitty job, the folks will never ask me to do it again."

It was, and I knew it. I was incapable of playing the same game.; 7/1/25, 1:21 PM
Original Mike said...: When it came time to "clean the basement", my brother would raise such a fuss that my sister and I kicked him out. Our mother said: "He's just doing that so he doesn't have to work". "We know and we don't care; just send him away".; 7/1/25, 1:29 PM
Iman said...: “Bannon’s a dweeb.”

Takes one to know one, Levene!; 7/1/25, 1:35 PM
Spiros said...: Democrats and RINOs -- illegals work hard and contribute tax revenue while consuming few government services. Let's keep them.

MAGA -- Illegals pay little in taxes, consume more services than natives, are violent and drive down wages of working class Americans. Our country is better off deporting them.

I think MAGA is right.; 7/1/25, 2:23 PM
Jaq said...: Not only are all of these criticisms of the policies that flood the labor market with illegals largely true, and I only qualify this because I haven't read every post on the thread, but we just increased the load on our health care system by 10% or so, and the number of these illegals who are qualified health care professionals is vanishingly small, in case you are wondering why you might have to travel to a different city and still wait six weeks to get an eye exam, that you used to be able to get within a day or two, if not just a walk in appointment. It's the same with all of the other doctors around here.; 7/1/25, 3:08 PM
hawkeyedjb said...: When I was a kid we had one of those damned manual human-powered grass cutters. Even worse, we had no meat because there were no illegals.; 7/1/25, 3:13 PM
KellyM said...: effinayright said...

I suspect that was his plan all along, thinking: "If I do a shitty job, the folks will never ask me to do it again."

It's called "strategic incompetence".

**********************
That’s what got my sister out of helping to stack wood in the drying sheds during the summer!; 7/1/25, 3:14 PM
John henry said...: Formerlawclerk,

The reason the execs are not arrested is because they have done nothing illegal. Or, perhaps, even wrong.

When anyone shows up at the plant the have to document that they can legally work. They have to fill out an I9(?)form and be USG certified with e-verify. If not, they cannot be legally employed.

The employer is not allowed to question the docs, only the govt can do that.

If they pass muster and are not hired because the employer thins they are illegal, the employer can be sued

What do you suggest the meat Packer do in this situation?

And what would you arrest them for/

John Henry; 7/1/25, 3:26 PM
John henry said...: There are self driving lawnmowers that can learn a yard and cut it perfectly e very time.

On a program, not randomly blundering about like aroomba (not a criticism of roomba a)

Seems like there would be a business of loading 3-4 in a truck and Turing them loose in years, supervising them remotely and picking them up when they say they are done.

Some of felons walking robots to do the trimming

John Henry; 7/1/25, 3:33 PM
John henry said...: Effinay,

Are those workers "undocumented"? Seems like they could not be hired if not documented in e-verify compliance.

Would a better descriptor be "falsely documented"

I didn't read the article so don't know. Serious question, though.

John Henry; 7/1/25, 3:37 PM
John henry said...: Elon robots, not felons robots; 7/1/25, 3:38 PM
FormerLawClerk said...: "Eric Trump announced the company would begin using E-Verify to confirm employees' immigration status."

And all they did was hire American sub-contractors who then hire the illegals. So that the Trumps could then claim they don't hire them.

Who do you think is cleaning all those thousands of hotel rooms?

Don't be a schmuck.; 7/1/25, 3:50 PM
Michael said...: Trump's critical error in his first term was pushing Bannon out. The guy has monster political instincts. Bannon would have stiffened Trump's spine and sharpened Trump's sword against the likes of Schiff, Cheney, Pelosi and Fauci.; 7/1/25, 3:51 PM
rehajm said...: And all they did was hire American sub-contractors who then hire the illegals. So that the Trumps could then claim they don't hire them.

I know they aren’t doing that at Doral. Housekeeping is part of Trump Management and they verify on the first I-9…; 7/1/25, 4:14 PM
phil said...: In NH young American males (and a few females) do landscaping. Be like New Hampshire.; 7/1/25, 4:41 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Old and slow said...
Bagoh20 seems to be the only one who understands that Mexicans do not work for slave wages.

Bullshit. They work for less than the prevailing wage, because if they didn't, there would be no reason to hire them, rather than someone who's actually a native speaker of the English language.

On balance, I'd say that more immigration means more wealth for everyone.
On balance, you're either an idiot, an ignoramus, or a liar.

Because it's long been known that the illegals basically get the entirety of the "economic benefit" of their presence in the US. It's a wash for Americans, but it's a "wash" where upper income Americans are better off to the same amount hat tower income Americans are made worse off.

If you're a complete scum bag, you like a policy that combines violating the law and making poor Americans poorer while making rich Americans better off.

If you're not, you want to close the border and deport all the illegals; 7/1/25, 4:42 PM
boatbuilder said...: The NYT seems to be awfully fascinated with Bannon. Who is a loose cannon even by the high standards of the Trump era.
Is he really that influential?; 7/1/25, 4:47 PM
traditionalguy said...: NB: it’s never been about immigrants in seasonal harvest work. they are not the problem. Never have been. It’s the sudden mass invasion of welfare dependent world populations arranged by Soros and the Dems to destroy our system of American born youth in starter jobs from which they move up.; 7/1/25, 4:57 PM
Rusty said...: While nobody was looking crime went down precipitously in Chicago. Wonder what happened there.; 7/1/25, 5:03 PM
Mason G said...: "Wonder what happened there."

Off the top of my head, I can think of two possibilities:

1. Crime actually went down.
2. People realized the government won't do anything about it so they stopped reporting them and nobody knows if crime has really gone up or down.; 7/1/25, 6:20 PM
Greg The Class Traitor said...: Rusty said...
While nobody was looking crime went down precipitously in Chicago. Wonder what happened there.

Crime didn't go down in Chicago, REPORTED crime went down in Chicago.

Because the police do little, and the prosecutors do nothing, so there's no longer any incentive to report the crime.; 7/1/25, 7:07 PM
Kakistocracy said...: The plutocrats want to expand the imperial war across the Muslim world and militarize the rivalry in the Far East.

The Maga realists want to defend America's 1914 borders.; 7/1/25, 7:23 PM
Old and slow said...: People hire Mexicans not to save money but because they actually work. Most young Americans are really undependable and lazy workers. I'm no longer in a position to need workers for the most part, but I employed lots of people a few years ago, including restaurant staff, housekeepers and laborers. Everyone passed E Verify, but it was widely known that most were illegals. The very few native born people I encountered (with a few exceptions) were unreliable and on drugs. I wish it were otherwise. I was paying $18/hour + tips for housekeepers, and $25+ for laborers. Without Mexican workers, we would have had to close the doors. The few local anglo kids who were actually willing to work simply had better job options and made more money. I consider that a good thing. They certainly preferred making more $ for less work.; 7/1/25, 7:53 PM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: “I suspect an equal number of viewers would have been amazed to find out that those highly paid professionals only did that until their male children hit puberty, then it became the kid's job.”

You didn’t have to mow the law until you hit puberty? Man, you had a sheltered childhood. By that time I had a well-established lawn mowing business.; 7/1/25, 9:22 PM