From "American Kennel Club Harms French Bulldogs’ Health, PETA Says in Suit/The animal rights group argues that the standards the kennel club promotes for several dog breeds, including America’s most popular one, cause physical deformities" (NYT).
What's the legal basis for a lawsuit and for standing to sue? Let's read the complaint, here. Go to paragraph 120 to read the cause of action. It has to do with requiring the AKC to follow its own bylaws (which include a primary objective to "advance canine health and well-being").
By the way, PETA doesn't need to win this lawsuit, only to convince people that it's socially unacceptable to acquire a French bulldog: To be part of the market for this breed is to be part of a system of deliberate cruelty. What the human perceives as cute, the dog experiences as suffering. Once you know that, the dog ceases to be cute. At the very least, you lose the ability to enjoy your public image as an adorable dog person.
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--- PETA's suit
That's funny all by itself.
...a similar argument could me made for the common ailment for nearly every AKC breed- goldens and hips, TTs go blind, bulldogs, pugs...they pick on frenchies because that's where the attention is...
A lot of parallels to transitioning of children, and driven by the same human weaknesses.
"...a similar argument could me made for the common ailment for nearly every AKC breed- goldens and hips, TTs go blind, bulldogs, pugs...they pick on frenchies because that's where the attention is..."
No. I picked the Frenchies because I didn't want to quote the whole article and they are the #1 most popular breed.
The lawsuit covers other breeds, including pugs, but also dachshunds and shar peis.
PETA killed over 2,000 cats and dogs in 2022, and more than 47,000 animals since 1998. It has been successfully sued a number of times for doing so illegally.
bagoh20 said, "A lot of parallels to transitioning of children, and driven by the same human weaknesses."
And related to the last post, most of these breeds were curated and cultivated by British women.
Munchausen Syndrome by Doggie.
Whats with all this oolala frenchie stuff? Why not a good ol' fashioned English bulldog? That aside, it seems both have a major health issue:
Brachycephalic Obstructive Airway Syndrome (BOAS): Their shortened snouts and airways make both breeds prone to breathing difficulties, snoring, exercise intolerance, and a higher risk of heatstroke. This can manifest as difficulty exercising, noisy breathing, gagging, and even collapse in severe cases.
Its sad but "cute" funny shaped dogs always seem to have major health issues related to their backs and spines too : Bassett Hounds, Dakes, Bulldogs, etc.
Some of those wolves should've listened to their packs.
PETA overestimates its ability to persuade anyone.
I agree regarding standing. I don't think it's a huge burden, but the complaint does not appear to allege that the plaintiffs are members of the AKC. How does the advocacy group have any right or interest in the AKC enforcing its own bylaws? *
*I would guess that there are many members of PETA who are also members of the AKC. But the complaint doesn't allege that.
Isn't this a public health/safety issue? Enforceable by animal control authorities, per statutes?
Puppy CPAP?
PETA consists primarily of attention whores, and the law suit should be interpreted entirely within that context.
I hate PETA and despise its members and donors, but I find myself somewhat sympathetic regarding French bulldogs, pugs, English bulldogs, and other squash-faced breeds. These dog were selectively bred to resemble human babies to appeal to childless women, regardless of the runny eyes, wheezy breathing, and maloccluded dentition these animals must suffer. However, they do have long lives compared to large breeds, so their daily discomfort doesn't seem to do anything objectively bad for their health.
Grok lays out a lawsuit against PETA, based on its kill shelters, where they make a whole lot of money killing dogs and cats:
"PETA operates an animal shelter in Norfolk, Virginia, which functions as an open-admission facility, meaning it accepts all animals regardless of their condition. This shelter kills dogs and cats, often at significantly higher rates than other shelters in Virginia, according to data from the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (VDACS). For example, in 2023, PETA killed 74% of the 2,886 animals it took in, including 718 dogs and 1,374 cats, while only about 3% were adopted out. Over the period from 1998 to 2019, PETA reportedly killed 41,539 of the 49,737 dogs and cats it received."
PETA is a dog killing machine. And you know what they say about serial killers.
I'll take a good old mutt over a purebred any day.
The petition alleges that AKC maintains a process under which anyone can file a complaint concerning certain violations of the AKC’s purpose of promoting canine well-being. PETA alleges that they submitted six such complaints on April 15 and paid a filing fee of $625 to AKC for each complaint. The basis for the petition is the allegation that AKC has done nothing to investigate the complaints, as required under its bylaws. As far as I can tell, the petition doesn’t explain why it’s not premature: I don’t see any indication that the bylaws require AKC to begin an investigation within a set period of time after accepting a complaint. However, if the complaints are indeed pending before it, AKC may undermine any argument that it should be given a chance to review the complaints if it responds to the petition by challenging the merits of PETA’s arguments about the six breed standards at issue, as that would suggest AKC can’t be trusted to conduct a fair investigation of the complaints.
Move to sanction thePETA lawyers. Request $$$ and a requirement that before PETA files another lawsuit they need permission from the court first.
Winston Churchill could have told us that bulldogs were inherently British. French meddling with that was bound to go wrong.
Big dogs live short lives. Is that something PETA would like to litigate?
Unless you are somebody who shows dogs...get a rescue mutt. They are the best!!!
1) The AKC doesn't write breed standards. The breed standards are written by the national breed club, which takes its responsibility very seriously. I'm looking at the FB standard (no more than a written description of the ideal dog) from 1991 and 1947 and they're almost identical.
2) An AKC registration means that it's certifying that this Frenchie is the product of two Frenchies. It's not a certification of quality or health. A responsible breeder will perform all appropriate tests available to try to make sure that the litter is healthy.
3) It's possible to breed sound, healthy dogs but there's a lot of work, thought and heartbreak involved. Understanding strengths and weaknesses, reinforcing the good points and breeding away from the bad ones, compatibility of pedigrees, all that goes into sound breeding. And still disasters can occur. We may be going through one ourselves.
"How does the advocacy group have any right or interest in the AKC enforcing its own bylaws?"
I'm not studying the complaint in depth, but if I remember from my skimming PETA seems to be saying that it costs them money to have to engage in this litigation to force AKC to follow its own commitment to animal welfare. If AKC would do what it held itself out as doing, then PETA would have more resources to devote to other matters.
This is in state court, remember. There's a state statute at the heart of this that created some procedures and obligations, so I would look there.
If I'm right about the standing argument, it's very bootstrappy. I'm able to bring this litigation because it's a burden to me to have to bring this litigation.
But I'm not purporting to know NY standing law. Perhaps the statute says anyone can sue, and that's the beginning and end of it and there's no state constitutional requirement like the federal court requirement.
Wait till Greta Thunberg finds out. That will end this.
The law in question is Article 78 of the New York Civil Practice Law and Rules.
As to its commitment to health, the AKC has a Canine Health Foundation that funds studies in canine health and diseases. And inspectors can and do find instances of abuse and neglect. The Secretary's Page of the AKC Gazette prominently features notices of fines and suspensions.
PETA runs shelters for dogs and cats in the US that have kill rates far higher than - up to 13 times higher - than other shelters in the same areas. They are a terrible organization that needs to go away.
Fuck PETA, and I drive by their headquarters frequently. Norfolk, VA of all places. They went there because rents were low.
fun fact: a local morning radio show used to have a "PETA fishing tournament" every year right next to their headquarters.
Well...it's a brachycephalic breed. Of which there are a few, such as Pugs, Bulldogs, Boston Terrier, Boxer, Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Shih Tzu and many others. And...all of them are very popular breeds.
Good luck with their quest.
Every dog breed was bred for a specific purpose, or purposes. And it's already happened. What are you going to do? Insist the breed die out now?
I agree with Craig Mc: PETA overestimates its ability to influence the masses.
I'm all for protecting the animals, but not by killing off a breed. These days I'd rather eliminate activists and protestors.
PETA ran mobile kill "shelters." They literally took a dog from someone's front yard and killed it in their van within an hour, and then dumped it in a random dumpster. Not kidding.
Look at Para. 23 of the petition. The allegation is that AKC invites anyone with an interest in purebred dogs to file a complaint that an AKC chapter is violating the AKC’s purpose; PETA is claiming the six chapters’ breed standards constitute such violations. I don’t think the issue here is the breadth of Article 78; it’s the breadth of the AKC complaint process. The AKC could have restricted complaints to ones submitted by members, but they chose not to. Of course, AKC might determine that PETA doesn’t fit the definition of a person interested in purebred dogs. But I think it’s key to recognize that AKC has a State charter to operate as a not-for-profit, which confers various benefits, in exchange for which they’ve necessarily agreed to be bound by State procedures—that is, Article 78 proceedings—for enforcement of their bylaws. It’s true that because this is a State proceeding in the nature of mandamus, it’s not governed by Article III standing requirements that would apply in federal court. But I don’t think that’s an important point here.
Ebb and flow. Tea Cup Chihuahuas, poodles, Labradoodles, Frenchies. Just like fashion on the runway you have to get the latest and greatest.
The inverse of the "Oh my gawd they are vicious" cycle, German Shepards, Pinchers, Rotties and Pitties.
Lots of "pure" breeds have significant health issues. This is click bait unless you want dogs to revert to wolves.
If I'm right about the standing argument, it's very bootstrappy. I'm able to bring this litigation because it's a burden to me to have to bring this litigation.
Too bad the Trump voters didn't think of that in 2020. (sarc)
I hate French bulldogs because they are aggressive little shits. When I’m walking my passive, calm black lab, the frenchies are trying to cross the street to attack her. They are horrible dogs.
If there is a state statute that confers standing on just about anyone to sue a nonprofit corporation to enforce its bylaws, then my question is answered. Thanks.
bagoh20 said, "Wait till Greta Thunberg finds out. That will end this."
Lol. She'll make a big deal and show up like she did in Gaza only to be sent packing with a doggy bag.
People for the Euthanasia of Throwaway Animals
Are they still a viable corporation?
One of my favorite book series as a child was Big Red, Irish Red, and Outlaw Red, three books about Irish setters who had somehow managed to escape the pretty-but-dumb effects of their breeding. I understand that in whatever organization judges hunting dogs, Irish can be bred with English setters to get some brains back into the breed, and they end up being good hunters again. You can't show them in AKC events because they aren't purebred any more.
I don't hunt, so I can't opine knowledgeably. But when I was a kid, I loved the idea of such a beautiful dog's also being really good at something.
We have a weimaraner and was looking for a second dog as a playmate, but smaller. We looked at the doodles, but were told by a lot of owners and our vet that they have lots of health problems. The breeders are just breeding dogs indiscriminately without screening for genetics. We ended up getting a beagle.
DBL: "When I’m walking my passive, calm black lab, the frenchies are trying to cross the street to attack her. They are horrible dogs."
I don't doubt your lived experience, but maybe those Frenchies are atypical. I live in DC, which has more Frenchies than Republicans, and I have never seen a misbehaving Frenchie, or heard one bark. All the ones I know will approach a new friend cautiously.
For the most part, DC Frenchies just look at you with morose get-me-out-of-here expressions.
Maybe they are Republicans.
RR
JSM
PETA a pity was exposed operating Planned Pupphood (PP).
I have two English Labs. I love Labs, and have had no other breed my entire life. As dogs go they're great generalists, and do almost everything well and in specific cases can be trained for specialization (guarding, support, etc.). They're wonderful with children and have a great sense of alertness.
To me, any dog lighter than 20lbs is just a big cat. I have no problem with them, but they're not for me and I genuinely don't understand people's desire for ultra-minis. In my experience the smaller a dog is the nastier it is.
@n.n., "Planned Pupphood (PP)", Lmfao.
Greta has her own concerns with a pushed-in face, possibly from fetal alcohol syndrome. Mamma never did care about her. How dare you!!
"In my experience the smaller a dog is the nastier it is."
Jamie Wyeth's painting "A Very Small Dog" pretty much sums up my impression of minis.
"To me, any dog lighter than 20lbs is just a big cat."
Depends on what they were bred for. Jack Russells were bred to go into holes and fight foxes. Dachsunds were bred to go into holes and fight badgers. Real dachsunds, not the minis.
Apparently I have somehow ended up in a weird alternate universe where I kind of agree with PETA. The real villains are the people running puppy mills who are in-breeding the dogs to reach maximum conformity with the breed standard. If you absolutely have to have a pure bred dog buy it from a local breeder and insist on a seeing the environment it was bred and kept in. Also, get the breeder to give you references and go and visit those dogs if possible. If this seems like a lot of hassle, well so is having a dog!
It seems that's PETA's argument for ethical treatment is genocide. Such and such species shouldn't exist, because its existence causes untold pain and suffering.
PETA ran mobile kill "shelters." They literally took a dog from someone's front yard and killed it in their van within an hour, and then dumped it in a random dumpster. Not kidding.
@Jeff Weimer, the incident happened in 2014. The owner of a trailer park commissioned PETA to collect feral cats and dogs from the property. Along with the feral cats and dogs, however, PETA scooped up a little girl’s pet Chihuahua “Maya” right from the front porch of the family’s home.
When the family realized what had happened they went to PETA to retrieve “Maya.” Too late. Virginia law requires shelters to keep an animal a minimum of five days before euthanizing it, but PETA hadn’t kept poor “Maya” alive five hours. Once apprised of the screw-up, the head of PETA in Virginia sent the family a fruit basket by way of apology. Incensed, the family responded with a $7 million lawsuit.
In 2017 the suit was settled for $49,000 and the family’s acceptance that PETA had made a serious mistake but had not acted out of malice.
My two takeaways. First, it is disgustingly typical of do-gooder organizations that they consider the law to be something they can (and do) safely ignore because, after all, their heart’s in the right place. (A variant on the old “law is for the little people” meme.)
The other thing I note is that outfits like PETA are primarily staffed by the children of the privileged. I cannot imagine that this played no role in this incident. A family in a trailer park has a nice pet? How dare they! The do-gooders will decide what they are allowed to have! Really, does anyone imagine that had they accidentally killed the pet of an affluent family that they’d have sent the angry family a fruit basket???
RSM posted a link to the photo meme I immediately thought of.
And it expresses my feelings about miniature or smashed in face dogs. I would not be in favor of a law prohibiting folks from selective breeding to the extent that the creature's appearance no longer gives any hint that it was descended from wolves, but I could probably get behind a law that says you can't call the resulting animal a Dog.
I remember when PeTA founder and president, Ingrid Newkirk, sent a letter to his "Excellency" Yasser Arafat imploring him to stop using animals in his acts of terrorism against the Israelis. Seems an explosives-laden donkey was the delivery device for a PLO-sanctioned bombing in Jerusalem.
Such moral people, those PeTA freaks are. Priorities!!! Screw the human lives lost! What about the donkey?!?
Maybe their whole shitty organization should take a big step backward and fuck their own pinched little faces before they carry on with any more of their morally-retarded stunts.
@Kirk Parker, the meanest "dog" I ever met was a colleague's ShihTzu that couldn't have weighed 4lbs soaking wet. That ankle-biting piece of shit was some kind of reincarnated demon that genuinely hated humans. It wasn't even very fond of its owner. Anyone would immediately suspect abuse, but I knew that not to be the case.
She told everyone who came to her house to not immediately open the unlocked door because even the sound of your approach would make that little psycho shoot across the apartment like a fluffy rocket with a fang-filled-war-head. She would shortly arrive and in her presence it would just yap and hiss at you incessantly. You dared not turn your back on it.
I would've loved to have been able to tie it to an APKWS and shoot it at some haji in a Hilux. They would've deserved each other.
"@Kirk Parker, the meanest "dog" I ever met was a colleague's ShihTzu that couldn't have weighed 4lbs soaking wet. That ankle-biting piece of shit was some kind of reincarnated demon that genuinely hated humans. It wasn't even very fond of its owner. Anyone would immediately suspect abuse, but I knew that not to be the case."
The problem with dogs like that is that the owners treat them like children, and they aren't children, they're dogs. They don't set limits, they don't train them, a lot of the time the poor things hardly get to set their feet on the floor because their owners carry them around all the time. So, since dogs are hierarchical, the dogs try to take charge because the owner isn't doing so and since they know they are tiny and don't feel safe, which is a basic need for dogs, just like humans, they are afraid all the time and therefore act like a "reincarnated demon."
notice how this woman actually rewards her dog for being aggressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ05CPhQDj8
How affluent does a society need to be for this to be someone's biggest issue?
Transbreed therapy follows progressive principles prosecuted with liberal license.
We are truly a rich society. I think we should measure a country's prosperity by the number of lawyers it has on a per capita basis. Clearly, when you go beyond the must-have lawyer stuff, like wills, patents, contracts, etc, and have lawyers to pursue these inane type of lawfare, you are rich!
Well, that's interesting. Most popular? The big dog rescue in my area cannot save all the Frenchies that are being surrendered to shelters or being kicked to the street. In the owner's words, "It's raining Frenchies. Too many problems. Too many expenses. Too much work." They pull 1 or 2 at minimum from shelters and off the street several times a week.They might be popular initially, but they sadly become throwaway dogs at some point - at least around these parts. Popular until reality slaps the owner upside the head.
"These dog were selectively bred to resemble human babies to appeal to childless women"
Interesting theory.
Support?
Ride Space Mountain @ 2:15
That was genuinely funny; thank you.
@Greg Hlatky, thank you for explaining how AKC and national breed clubs work! I read many of your dog show blog posts years ago.
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