The NYT is too polite to embed or even to link to the video, but the video is powerfully clarifying, so I will put it here:
This stirred up old memories of advice to women who want to avoid physical attacks. I've heard: Don't wear a ponytail, because someone could grab you by the ponytail. It's common enough advice that there's a Snope fact-check on it.
Posts
159 comments:
A guy with a ponytail has never been in a fight.
That ain’t right.
He is pissed. I'd like to know why? Not that it matters.
It's sports - calm down.
Proud of her teammate who... had her back, literally.
This is the best of women's sports: teaching women to stand up for themselves. The worst is what women like Riley Gaines learned: be quiet, conform, do what they tell you...
She found her voice only belatedly, protesting injustice when it was too late to make a difference in the competition. The more men and women who can stand up for themselves, in the moment, when they know something is wrong, the better.
Women like Gaines, and truth be told? althouse too, are counseled and thus counsel to ... wait, wait, wait until the men are there to protect you. If people had listened to ann's advice regarding gay marriage and equal civil rights for queers, we'd likely still be waiting.
"You can’t do things like that when you’re an older man with a young kid."
Is that line from the Pizzagate movie, or from the Jeffrey Epstein biopic?
The coach said she swore at him, or earlier threw a derogatory term/curse word his way... No excuses. Never ever ever put hands on a child not your own to "discipline" them.
The issue is how much agency do you give to the woman here.
Can she stand up for herself? Can she deal with something she feels is inappropriate?
Does this apply to this one female only or does this apply to women in general?
If you fire this coach over this then that is society determining that every man everywhere will have to treat every woman everywhere like an infant.
But it increasingly looks like progressives think women are weak stupid infants who must be coddled and protected by the "community."
Never touch the money or the students.
If you don't know that, get out.
Control your emotions.
It's instructive.
Yes, it's hard to do. Don't pretend the job is for everybody.
Achilles would be fine with him getting all sniffy on a minor high school girl ala Biden too.
Mature men should keep their hands off minor girls. Nothing about what he did is professional or is needed to effectively coach HS girls basketball.
What that coach should do is have all the images of him pulling that girl's hair scrubbed from internet searches like that laptop photo of Hunter Biden pulling the hair of a woman.
https://www.redbubble.com/i/photographic-print/Hunter-Biden-Hair-Pulling-by-StefanysAppares/120828223.ZRLK5
Plus get a retroactive blanket pardon for all crimes committed since 2014.
Our PE teachers would challenge high school students to fight. Nobody got fired. Someone's feelings got hurt, maybe a black eye, but nobody git fired for mixing it up a little.
Mark said...
Achilles would be fine with him getting all sniffy on a minor high school girl ala Biden too.
Mature men should keep their hands off minor girls. Nothing about what he did is professional or is needed to effectively coach HS girls basketball.
You are a terrible human being who purposely misunderstands and misrepresents.
I am teaching my daughter how to use knives and guns.
I hope you "get sniffy" with my daughter or some other properly trained and armed female at some point. Most leftists like you end up outing themselves as dishonest pervs.
a feel good post for the women…
Guys who approach coaching with the attitude this guy demonstrates should never be allowed to coach any sport for any age group. Some parent would not have been misplaced in taking this asshole to the woodshed. Inexcusable.
Who won?
Just more proof that women in team sports are a joke. I'd love to know WHY he pulled her ponytail, and what he was shouting at them. He probably trying to get her to stop crying because..y'know...there's no crying in baskeball.
Always this absurd leftist/feminist double-think. OMG, a girl got her ponytail pulled. Will it scar her for life? And then... we need women in combat, they're rough and tough. Stop saying otherwise, you women hater!
I don't know ponytails were back. When going to HS in the late 70s , it was thought of as a 50s thing. Something you'd see in Happy Days.
There is a reason why progs like Mark want women coddled and kept innocent while they are in school like this.
But it isn't because they want women to do well or be protected.
It is because Mark wants women to grow up weak and unsure/unable to defend themselves so he can attack and abuse them or feed them to his leaders to attack and abuse.
If you look at leftist men they are predatory rapists, abusers, and assholes. I can pick from a whole stable of examples but lets just start with Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton is a:
1. Known Rapist
2. Physically violent during his rapes.
3. Married to a sociopath that helps him cover up his rapes.
Leftists want women who shut up, stay quiet, and cry in their room alone afterwards and get free abortions.
I can’t believe he is made it to that age as a coach without learning how to discipline someone with out touching them. I only saw the short video, but it looks like something had happened previously to upset the girl. Good on the teammate standing up for the other player.
Achilles, you are right about Mark, but wrong about this situation. How much agency do you give minor girls when being coached? The question answers itself. These are minors.
We have no idea what is upsetting this girl, but she is upset. If the coach cannot get her to comply, the thing to do is not touch her. Send her to the locker room to compose herself.
And old boomers and their dumb old rules. Don't ever hit a woman (even if she cuts your balls), dont ever touch a minor girl. Good God, do these people ever interact with real life girls and women in 2025?
So if she had planted one firm swift kick to the coaches groin, making sure to contact the sensitive bits, could we call it even?
The old dude had no business touching her at all. He should get fired just for being an ignorant human.
Context: The team lost. They were standing there awaiting their opponents to end the celebration so as to do the handshake line. The coach was telling them to be good losers. The girl told the coach to F#%k off, at which point he pulled her ponytail. Not an excuse. He needs to be the adult and control his own emotions. These are kids after all.
If HS girls can't handle someone pulling their hair, how can they handle women's boxing, women's wrestling, women's rugby, or even women's soccer. Evidently, they shatter into a million pieces if someone touches their hair, wrist, or arm or foot.
Apparently the game was over, his team lost, and he chose to take out his frustration publicly on one of his players. It was bush-league behavior regardless of the respective genders of the coach and athlete.
Ann is right as usual. Seems clear to me. Props to the teammate who told the coach very clearly that he was out of line. Firing offense in my opinion.
- Krumhorn
Good on her teammate for stepping up.
Anyone defending this is not a sportsman or a gentleman.
I must admit I am mildly shocked by the misogyny demonstrated by some of our faithful commenters. Would they want someone coaching their kids - male or female- to physically abuse them? One finds that most girls/women playing basketball - and goodly number boys/men wear their hair in some kind of ponytail to keep it out of their eyes. I suspect RC Ocean has never spent much time around sports if he really thinks this is acceptable behavior by any coach toward a participant of any sex in any sport.
"So if she had planted one firm swift kick to the coaches groin, making sure to contact the sensitive bits, could we call it even?"
I wish I bottle the stupidity of this comment and sell it for $10 a pop. When did a kick in the groin = pulling a ponytail? Your hair is not the same as the rest your body. Barbers don't get arrested for assault.
So, he was disipline her, because she was acting like a spoiled brat. I agree it shouldn't have pulled her hair, he should have just left, and told everyone that Girls sports are a joke, and that ALL women's teams should be played by women, watched by women, and referred by women. And their dumb Dads who live vicariously through them.
Dumb Lefty Mark: "Mature men should keep their hands off minor girls. Nothing about what he did is professional or is needed to effectively coach HS girls basketball."
LOL
It is official policy of the New Soviet Democraticals that grown, mature men be allowed in bathrooms with young girls AND that young women should be forced to change in front of biological males in locker rooms AND have those biological males change in front of the young women AND that adult males be allowed to speak about sexual matters with young girls in schools without parental knowledge or input.
I'd say we've already had quite enough lectures from the New Soviet Democraticals on how girls/women ought to be treated.
I view this as the equivalent of a football coach grabbing a players face mask and shaking it. I think both are wrong.
But why does this have to be about the sex of the player? It is wrong regardless of the memories of the women watching it and the young player most likely doesn’t have that memory.
I've heard: Don't wear a ponytail, because someone could grab you by the ponytail. It's common enough advice that there's a Snope fact-check on it.
I read the Snopes fact check. They are correct — eschewing ponytails will not prevent. OTOH, it will make the assault slightly harder and that can help.
As it happens, back in my younger days (40s and 50s) I studied aikido and my sensei taught rape prevention classes. He used some of us students as “attackers,” reminding the students in his rape prevention class that if they were attacked it would be by big ugly guys (like me) so they needed to be able to deal with guys our size.
The most important thing he taught his students was situational awareness and listening to their sixth sense. If you get an uncomfortable feeling that someone — who does not mean well towards you — is staring at you then get the Hell out of there . That applies even if you cannot identify who it is that is staring at you.
Leland said...
I can’t believe he is made it to that age as a coach without learning how to discipline someone with out touching them. I only saw the short video, but it looks like something had happened previously to upset the girl. Good on the teammate standing up for the other player.
1. The coach is probably an average coach. Most coaches suck. Most players suck. Most people suck.
2. The teammate probably has a good father and will probably do very well in life. She got a chance to step up and she did. She received approbation for it.
3. This event has immense benefits for society at large. We need more opportunities for leaders like her to step up and this coach while bad is going to be the most benign challenge available for these girls to face. The coach also tested his limits and there is a learning experience for him as well. The teammate who stepped up is a future leader and will be more likely to step up and be successful in a much more dangerous future situation.
Achilles, you are right about Mark, but wrong about this situation. How much agency do you give minor girls when being coached? The question answers itself. These are minors.
But not all minors are the same. The problem is that if you fire this coach then all coaches will get the message.
Don't touch. Don't yell. Don't push. Don't expect more. Don't challenge.
This coach is most likely not an abuser or bully. He just doesn't really know how to be a leader of young women. This describes at least 90% of men.
This team is going through a crucible. This is how you sort the wheat from the chaff. Without this opportunity the Teammate who stepped up never would have got a chance to step up. These small instances are what builds the fiber of the social fabric.
Coach is a shithead.
why does this have to be about the sex of the player
It shouldn't be. There was nothing sex-specific about this action, and in light of modern reporting, is wholly inconsistent with their popular handmade tales. Perhaps AI could construct a style guide that is at least internally consistent.
For the moment, let us set aside the particulars of this incident and contemplate the generalities. Is there any way s man can physically restrain a girl who's spoiling for a fight? There was a time when girls were very disinclined to brawl, but that's not today. In many school districts the girls are as likely to engage in physical violence as the boys, and there are others in which girl-on-girl violence is even more prevalent than violence among the boys. How does a man deal with that situation? Does this ponytail-pulling incident argue in favor of a ban on coeducation and a return to sexually segregated schooling where men teach only boys and women instruct only girls?
It was a jerky, emotionally undisciplined act unbecoming of an adult. It was also a battery. It would have been the same thing if he had done it to a boy. Both would have been justified in smacking him in defense. That guy is manifestly unfit to coach kids.
I thought this was going to be a post that united commentary opinion. Guess not.
FWIW, if that was my daughter and I saw that, I'd throttle him. If a male coach wants to get tough with my son, I'll let my son handle himself. No man touches my daughter like that, for any reason, ever.
That coach should have been fired immediately, and I believe he was.
Our varsity basketball coach threatened us with “I’ll ream yer rectums!” if he thought we weren’t running “sets of six” during practice with enough enthusiasm.
So while the ponytail yanker is an a*hole, it could be worse…
This affirmative action is analogous to DEI selecting individuals for equitable inclusion, human rites denying life for social, clinical, criminal, political, and climate progress, etc.
"Mr. Zullo told News10 ABC that before the episode, the player had directed an expletive at him when he instructed her to shake hands with the opposing team."
Context. Still not a good move. He should have just ejected her from the field.
So he’s now Big Ugly Mike.
... males in female spaces and faces is a progressive principle that has overtaken the traditional lady and gentlemen social protocol.
Big Mike said...
As it happens, back in my younger days (40s and 50s) I studied aikido and my sensei taught rape prevention classes. He used some of us students as “attackers,” reminding the students in his rape prevention class that if they were attacked it would be by big ugly guys (like me) so they needed to be able to deal with guys our size.
I taught these classes in college 20 years ago. The class for the teachers and TAs was just getting beat up the whole time. There are 2 challenges in teaching self defense to women in the US.
The side quest is teaching women how to hurt a man. We taught punching and kicking and kneeing and stomping mostly as ways to break programming and to keep them from hurting themselves. But for actual defense women have to resort to surprise attacks and things like tearing off ears, stabbing with pens/pencils/picks, eye gouges, tearing lips biting etc.
The biggest challenge is overcoming the social programming to not hurt people in these situations. Most women just cannot hurt other people even if they have the means. We would start them with yelling at us. Then punching us. Then pulling hair etc.
As they learned how to control their violence and overcame the programming we taught them increasingly devastating attacks. But the vast majority of 18-22 years that came to our classes entered as lambs to the slaughter.
Coach “Pops” should return to his retirement. He ain’t no Hubie Brown.
Swish, swish.
This is why Nature has evolved humans with two sexes to permit socially acceptable, tolerable discipline of each sex without spooking the herd. Lions do it in pride parades. Modern humans have progressed in a dysphoric state, trying to emulate AI where Anthropogenic Intelligence (i.e. internal, external, and mutual consistency) is required.
Reading the hysterical comments, you'd think the coach raped her, instead of pulling her ponytail to get your attention and chastize her for acting like a spoiled brat. BTW, this is not a 12 y/o girl, this is a HS BB player, probably 17 or even 18 years old.
But OMG, he pulled her ponytail. Oh, he should be shot. Her Dad should beat him up in the parking lot. Maybe we should put him in jail, no? These from the same people who were blase about Ashli Babbitt getting murdered, applauded the Genocide in gaza with 40,000 dead kids and old women, and approve of sending arms to Ukraine to kill "Ruskiees".
Talk about your whacked out values. Dead Palestinian girls - thats OK. Dead Ukrainian girls - that's Ok. Pull someone's ponytail - OMG lets beat the basterd up!
Narr said...
Coach is a shithead.
We have all been shitheads at one moment or another in our lives.
Some more than others.
So many rules today! The cancel culture morphs into every niche.
And who the hell sits down watches a GIRLS BB championship on TV? I mean except perverts and their family members? Again, i find the whole situation absurd. A male coach trying to treat girls as boys. A society pushing female team sports like girls are boys. A society that wants women in combat but cant accept a ponytail being pulled.
In a sane society, no one would care about Girls BB game, assuming one even existed. Nor would we be putting women in combat, or assuming girls and boys are the same. But y'know...'murica.
Generally it would be a good idea to let kids take at least partial responsibility for what happens to them. One, it lets them feel more in control; two, it's part of growing up, at least traditionally.
That coach looks so old I'm surprised he didn't try to dip her pony tail in an inkwell.
Joe Bar said...
"Mr. Zullo told News10 ABC that before the episode, the player had directed an expletive at him when he instructed her to shake hands with the opposing team."
She deserved worse than she got then.
Context. Still not a good move. He should have just ejected her from the field.
Or told her to find a new team.
You people are creating Karens. This is how Karen is created and everyone that wants this coach fired is participating in that cycle.
The coach made a mistake. I am also quite certain that everyone calling for him to be fired and have his career ended have made way bigger mistakes at some point in their life.
Yeah, that was rough and inappropriate. But to be honest, you shouldn't do that to anyone. It's a good way to get a knuckle sandwich.
This was clearly an assault. If I were still a prosecutor, I would have no qualms about filing charges, even if it was just a misdemeanor assault.
RCOCEAN THE SECOND beating the shit out of some straw men while defending the still "40,000" "Palestinian" children who Israel killed the first week of retaliation as I recall. You'd think the Jews would have killed 6 or 10 million little terrorists by now because GENOCIDE!!!!
But anyway, we don't suspend rules, laws and customs because of what's happening in other countries, Kamala. We still say Merry Christmas and we still slap the shit out of grown men who get handsy with teenage girls.
Whatever happened the the commentator who would write little stories about "ponytail girl"?
Disciplinary actions are also considered when a kid exercises liberal license invoked by an emotional forcing from another kid.
And if he had grabbed her by the arm to get her attention, Lonejustice?
Quaestor said...
For the moment, let us set aside the particulars of this incident and contemplate the generalities. Is there any way s man can physically restrain a girl who's spoiling for a fight? There was a time when girls were very disinclined to brawl, but that's not today. In many school districts the girls are as likely to engage in physical violence as the boys, and there are others in which girl-on-girl violence is even more prevalent than violence among the boys. How does a man deal with that situation? Does this ponytail-pulling incident argue in favor of a ban on coeducation and a return to sexually segregated schooling where men teach only boys and women instruct only girls?
I think this is a good start for a long discussion.
But the starting and ending point of this discussion is making sure that all women grow up with a father who provides at least some example of what a man should be and having the men in schools be fathers of other young girls as well.
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Whatever happened the the commentator who would write little stories about "ponytail girl"?
laslo was a very busy person. Screenwriter among other things I believe.
People come ang go. There are 3 or 4 people like that of exceptional talent I miss.
>RCOCEAN II said...
Talk about your whacked out values. Dead Palestinian girls - thats OK. Dead Ukrainian girls - that's Ok. Pull someone's ponytail - OMG lets beat the basterd up!<
The really idiotic culmination of your dumb ravings on this subject. No one said any of those things.
And if the coach had been a female would the firing have still happened?
3/23/25, 12:44 PM
She wasn't on a treadmill.
*****
I appreciate the comments that gave context. If the players don't know how to lose graciously, telling them to be nice then wasn't going to help.
The context makes her sound like a brat, but I could see feeling the same way if the ref had obviously been favoring the other team.
I agree 100% with 12:58 Achilles.
How do adults respond to first-order forcings of other adults, kids, babies/fetuses? Do they pull the metaphorical "ponytail" to relieve their burden?
BTW.... Neckties can be yanked to.
lonejustice said...
This was clearly an assault. If I were still a prosecutor, I would have no qualms about filing charges, even if it was just a misdemeanor assault.
It is sad and unfortunate just how juvenile and short sighted people are.
If a girl yells at a coach and tells him to fuck off when he tells her to shake hands after a game what should the consequences of that action be?
Lone Justice wants to make an example made of that coach and end his career, put him in jail, and make him a felon.
Thus all men in the country will see the example made of that coach and cower in the face of every little bitch like this girl for fear of losing their freedom and livelihood. This girl probably doesn't have a father and will likely grow up abusing men like this on a daily basis.
This is why 60% or women in the US grow up to be Karen right now.
You people are all causing this. You and your juvenile short sightedness.
I thought girls were coached by women.
That coach is a most unkind fellow, very reminiscent of coaches I had in my heyday back in the 1970s. Guess some things never change all that much.
Here’s an example of a male high school coach doing essentially the same thing to a male high school student and getting fired for it. Leave the kids alone.
https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/sports/jesuit-high-school-football-coach-fired-after-video-shows-him-punch-player/
A veritable insurrection.
Achilles wrote: Thus all men in the country will see the example made of that coach and cower in the face of every little bitch like this girl for fear of losing their freedom and livelihood.
The coach was way out of line. But what provoked him? I agree with Achilles that this should not embolden young women to openly defy authority for no reason--especially male authority.
These are troubling times for young women: Half the population still votes for a party that cannot bring themselves to ban boys from playing in girls' sports. And from what I see, these same people openly despise the authorities who are trying to ban boys from girls' sport.
Here’s an example of a male high school coach doing essentially the same thing to a male high school student and getting fired for it. Leave the kids alone.
Shoot, a few months ago I was reffing a club U12 soccer game where the coach of the WINNING team took his team out to a corner flag after the game and yelled at them so loudly I could hear it as I was walking back to the ref tent a few fields away. They may have even been younger, U10. I would have taken my kid from that team and demanded my money back. Imagine paying $1k-2k to have your young kid yelled at like that. Teenager? No problem. Competely age-inappropriate for what it was.
Eric the Fruit Bat: That made me laugh out loud. Thanks for remembering that!
I did not want coaches of my kids jerking them around. Pulling hair? Pushing? No. Coach, you are an adult. If you cannot control your emotions, and if you can't figure out a way to get teens to do something without manhandling them, you're in the wrong field.
I thought the coach was supposed to be on the same side as the kids/teens?
That clip is short and lacks context. I didn't see any of the girls "spoiling for a fight"
“If a girl yells at a coach and tells him to fuck off when he tells her to shake hands after a game what should the consequences of that action be?”
1. She was the star player and had been fouled earlier in the game. She was visibly shaken and responded emotionally. Which was wrong. The coach responded by letting his emotions get the best of him. How was his response supposed to teach her to keep her emotions in check?
2. That’s what he says. Whether it happened the way he said it did, no evidence except his recollection.
3. Life lesson: don’t make a bad situation worse - especially if you’re in charge. Kudos to the girls who shielded her from the coach who was obviously out of control.
The coach could have tagged her mother to step into the ring.
Loudogblog said:
"Yeah, that was rough and inappropriate. But to be honest, you shouldn't do that to anyone. It's a good way to get a knuckle sandwich. "
My thoughts, as well.
RCOcean - dead Israeli citizens - kidnapped, kept in tunnels.
Iranian Islamic Supremacist Ayatollahs - paid big American tax payer dollars to fund terror/ perpetuate Jew Hate/ and subjugate Iranian women with backwards pro-male rules.
F off & Stop your whining.
Lem, women in America today want to pound the table to demand equal representation for women's teams regardless of the number of women actually interested in playing. They want to push Caitlin Clark or Angela Reese on us like it is an insult that they are not already at LeBron James level of fame. They want equal pay for women in sports while maintaining wildly more favorable benefits (see women's national soccer).
What they don't want to do is actually help achieve any of this, by coaching them or by paying to attend WNBA games or watch them on TV (or, apparently, by teaching them to show any respect for the person who did sacrifice considerable time and effort to coach them - interesting that several of you above commented that the girl's father should have taught her to lose gracefully but no one thought the mother should have done the same).
Eva Marie - that is what the coach says, we cannot know what the girl did just prior (or earlier in the game, or during the season, or during her entire HS career that was able to exist in no small part because he gave up a chunk of his life to coacch). But I suspect it is accurate, else others would have spoken up. ALWAYS be wary of a video that starts just before one person does something that looks unprovoked - what are the odds that the camera person just happened to turn the camera on at that precise second versus edited to remove the provoking incident. Also, don't cut her slack because she is the "star," that approach is likely what led to her being a sh*t sportsman.
Planned Ponytailhood? Planned Playerhood? There are progressive choices. Did the coach, player, both, NYT, or other react stupidly? Why did this minor anomaly garner national attention?
A throwback aircheck:
++++
All of a sudden I'm in the trunk of some guy's car. That shit happens.
Girl with the Pony Tail on the Treadmill:
I was doing my routine on the treadmill yesterday when I noticed this guy across the room. Got a weird vibe.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
He was trying to be sly, but I realized he had his phone out, and he was filming me.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Psycho.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Like I don't know what he's going to do with THAT when he gets home.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Sick.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Then I realize: that's creepy enough as it is, but -- I don't know -- what if he put that on the internet?
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
There could be people all over the world right now, staring at my ass as I'm running.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Maybe there's an entire web community out there that shares video of girls working out at the gym. Ew.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I don't even want to know what the comments are.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
What if one of them tries to find me? Like some creepy Russian dude? With all those weird Russian tattoos?
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
All of a sudden I'm in the trunk of some guy's car. That shit happens.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
It's probably all right.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
It was just one creep. That's all.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
My ass IS looking good right now...
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
I am Laslo.
++++
Who doesn't miss that guy?
- Krumhorn
“Also, don't cut her slack because she is the "star," that approach is likely what led to her being a sh*t sportsman.”
You’re right - although that’s not what the coach’s response taught her. It taught her the exact opposite: You need to have even more power to treat people like shit. The coach was showing her that he had more power and therefore he could treat her anyway he wanted. She had less power so she didn’t have his options. It’s a bad life lesson.
I am not defending the coach, it is obviously something he shouldn't have done. Just reminding us all that there is certainly a lot more that led to this than we know.
I think firing is an overreaction. And what if it was a boy with a ponytail. I'd be angry if my coach got fired for correcting me like that for being an ass. Maybe the school demands an apology, but even then, I'd apologize back, and probably say I deserved it, and it was no big deal. Decent people give others some slack, especially in emotional situations, and we look for conciliation over punishment and revenge for minor issues. They both screwed up, but today is all about the coliseum and doing that thumbs down thing. See, as a guy, I had to get the Roman Empire in there. It's always top of mind.
That guy should never coach again. You just don’t touch kids, period. Those days when you could give a kid a hug or a pat on the back are over. And you could never get away with touching them in anger.
When I was in 10th grade, I wrote an op-ed in the local paper complaining about school staff behavior. My swimming coach read it, and brought it up during practice. When I admitted I wrote it, he proceeded to paddle me in front of the whole team. Not painful, and I laughed the whole time, and there was never any residual issue between us afterward, but 1974 was different, a more natural time, when things were handled directly and in person. Freedom of speech has consequences.
We are not better off with the current puritanism, especially when the culture also embraces abject hedonism.
“ RCOCEAN II said...
And old boomers and their dumb old rules. Don't ever hit a woman (even if she cuts your balls), dont ever touch a minor girl. Good God, do these people ever interact with real life girls and women in 2025?
3/23/25, 11:48 AM“
That’s some sick thinking no matter how old or how young you are. You never touch anyone in anger unless they touched you first. That is as old as humanity.
They should apologize to each other and the girl and her teammates should say that they want coach back and he should apologize to the school and the community for not dealing with the (bratty) girl in a different way. Everything is so overwrought and gets more so.
The problem with posters like Achilles is that they never even bother to read the posts they respond to. They just vent. I stated that I would, as a former criminal prosecutor for 20 years, have no qualms about filing misdemeanor assault charges against the coach, not FELONY assault charges. At most he would have a criminal conviction for Simple Misdemeanor Assault, be put on probation for 6 months, and ordered to take some anger management classes. No jail time. If he got a left-wing, liberal, soft on crime Judge like Achilles, he may even get a deferred judgment, in which the conviction would be wiped off of his record if he successfully completed his 6 months of unsupervised probation and anger management classes. Yes, he would probably lose his job as a coach, but that would be up to the school to decide, not the criminal justice system.
Why are people talking about whether he should be fired? That’s an assault. He should be arrested.
Lots of people are calling her a kid. The Democrats want to let her vote.
"The coach was showing her that he had more power and therefore he could treat her anyway he wanted. She had less power so she didn’t have his options. It’s a bad life lesson."
He could have expressed his authority differently but it's not necessarily a bad life lesson. Sometimes, you're in a situation where you're not dealing with others as equals. You need to be able to recognize that and act accordingly.
@Achilles (12:39), aikido is a defensive martial art that relies on using an opponent's strength and speed to throw him. The trick is to create muscle memory in the student (both in the dojo and in the rape prevention class) so that in the event of an attack one responds automatically to maintain one's balance while taking the attacker's balance. My sensei believed, and I agree, that teaching a woman to punch and kick is pretty worthless -- there are some women who hit really hard, but on the whole women's punches and kicks will be shrugged off by anyone who has been through a few brawls. As my sensei put it, how many times do you have to hit someone in the face before he stops coming, versus how many times do you have to slam his face into a concrete sidewalk before he stops coming?
My problem was that I was raised that no real man ever hits a woman, but most of the techniques my sensei taught his students in the rape prevention class won't work well unless the attack is a real one. I had to overcome my upbringing to throw real punches at the female students and to make real, forceful grabs as though I really intended to immobilize them and rip their clothes. Fortunately the first thing one learns in martial arts such as judo, ju jitsu, and aikido is how to fall (or be thrown) without hurting yourself, and consequently the results of the techniques, combined with a very realistic (meaning full strength) attack, was the women with their eyes wide as saucers as they watched Big Mike, all 6 feet of him, as he sailed through the air on his way to a collision with the mats.
I hope they never had to use any of those techniques to defend themselves, but if they did, I hope their attacker got busted up good.
I guess some of us have forgotten Woody Hayes getting fired from OSU for punching a Clemson player in the throat during the Gator Bowl in 1978,
I think a lot of you don't have a clue what you are talking about unless you have coached. I've volunteer coached almost my entire adult life. Youth baseball 16 and under, youth wrestling, and adult softball coed and male.
If you are coaching competitively you have to maintain some semblance of discipline. There's just no around it. And good coaching in any sport requires physical contact. A simple example is athletic stance. The easiest way to teach it is to have the player stand in front of you, tell them to take an athletic stance, and the push on them. Hard enough to knock them over if they have a poor stance. Do it again until they learn to bend at the knees and waist. I went through this with a coed, zero experience, who wanted to learn how to bat. She fell over when I pushed her and got up mad as hell, quit the team, and threatened to sue me. Thank God I never had a girl wrestler! There's a fielding drill in youth baseball I use. Glove foot forward, glove on the ground, knees bent, back straight. Hold the position until the thighs burn. Throw them a grounder just as the can't hold it any longer. Great muscle memory drill. One kid refused to do it after the first try. Okay, run hard laps while we do the drill. Next practice two other kids decided running laps was easier and refused the drill. All three of them got to run laps the entire practice. The two got the message and did the drill after that. The original holdout still refused, so I sat him for the next game. After the game I got to listen to the parents go on a tirade for 15 minutes, how dare I? I explained what I was trying to achieve to no avail, and the league administrator evidently got an earful about it. Luckily he understood. Discipline is a part of sports. Self discipline is best, but that has to be taught sometimes.
If I got a FU from a player refusing to shake hands at game end I would have made it unmistakably clear that was not acceptable. Unmistakably.
Peachy said...
Loudogblog said:
"Yeah, that was rough and inappropriate. But to be honest, you shouldn't do that to anyone. It's a good way to get a knuckle sandwich. "
My thoughts, as well.
What should happen to you if you tell your coach to fuck off after refusing to shake hands with the other team?
No, not charged with assault.
No, not a good thing to do.
No, he's old in the tooth and should not be coaching anymore. He should apologize and retire. IT's bad, but it's not the end of the world. Not a crime, just an old man who didn't know when it was time to hang up the coach's whistle and support the team from the stands. Maybe... maybe... there's a woman (basket)baller in the community who could make a good coach and role model for the young women. It's not about sports, it's about sportsmanship, staying fit and working with others in team sports. (I was a runner and a swimmer, not so much a team player, and ... it shows in who I am today. ;-(
Big Mike said...
@Achilles (12:39), aikido is a defensive martial art that relies on using an opponent's strength and speed to throw him.
I know exactly what aikido is. Trained with Aikido instructors quite a bit. I try to be respectful of all martial arts practitioners. People who practice martial arts should have their fun and try to master their art.
Aikido is not for self defense. Neither is taekwon do or most karate do/jitsus. Most jiu-jitsu is completely impractical for self defense. All of these disciplines will get people hurt mostly because they create a false sense of security in graduates of short term (3-4 month) courses. Aiki do only works on good partners.
We made sure that the people who went through our self defense courses knew exactly where they stood up against a bigger stronger opponent in a fair fight. Towards the middle/end of the course we weren't the only people going home with bruises. At that point some people decided to take more traditional martial arts. But they all learned how to win dirty.
You should read my post a little more closely about what was taught and why.
tim maguire said...
Why are people talking about whether he should be fired? That’s an assault. He should be arrested.
Because some of us act like adults and actually look at the consequences to society if we let our children act like that.
"Generally it would be a good idea to let kids take at least partial responsibility for what happens to them. One, it lets them feel more in control; two, it's part of growing up, at least traditionally."
Yeah, except its a girl. Probably a 17-18 y/o girl. so she must never have her hair touched - by anyone. Unless its the Transgender Guy next to her in the PE shower stall.
lonejustice said...
The problem with posters like Achilles is that they never even bother to read the posts they respond to. They just vent. I stated that I would, as a former criminal prosecutor for 20 years, have no qualms about filing misdemeanor assault charges against the coach, not FELONY assault charges. At most he would have a criminal conviction for Simple Misdemeanor Assault, be put on probation for 6 months, and ordered to take some anger management classes. No jail time. If he got a left-wing, liberal, soft on crime Judge like Achilles, he may even get a deferred judgment, in which the conviction would be wiped off of his record if he successfully completed his 6 months of unsupervised probation and anger management classes. Yes, he would probably lose his job as a coach, but that would be up to the school to decide, not the criminal justice system.
lonejustice has an IQ of somewhere between 90-100. But he managed to get a law degree and thinks he is smart.
The little bitch refused to shake hands with the other team and told the coach to fuck off. She earned a choice between:
1. Leaving the team and eternal dishonor.
or
2. An ass whuppin with a chance to redeem her honor over coming months.
I tore your stupid post apart, then I pointed out the results your stupidity has on our society. Stupid people like you are the reason we have a Karen problem right now.
This wasn't a case of a simple assault. There was a limited cause and effect. Identify and resolve them, individually, together, inclusively, and their progressive modes.
He got fired, fine. But charged with assault? That cheapens the concept of assault, which is not a good thing. Prosecutors are supposed to use discretion.
Why are people talking about whether he should be fired? That’s an assault. He should be arrested.
Only if he's a Republican.
On self defense...
I recommend "When Violence Is the Answer: Learning How to Do What It Takes When Your Life Is at Stake"
By Tim Larkin
Test. There's a reason.
Also, Lone Justice seems to think an assault conviction would be no big deal to the coach, so long as it isn't felony assault. But it would mean, in addition to the criminal penalties, that he would forever be unemployable by schools (at a minimum), and never able to participate in anything requiring a CORI form, so no cub scouts, no other coaching, can't even drive a school bus), all for something that at no point threatened actual harm.
"all for something that at no point threatened actual harm."
Exactly. As I said; discretion. He ain't got none. Glad he's retired.
My comments are based on the video.
I'd only add -perhaps firing was harsh - esp if this was a first for the guy. Assault? eh, no. An irritated Coach making a bad decision.
No matter what she did in the realm of poor sportsmanship - hair pulling was just dumb. Good gravy - everyone is in such a hair-pulling snit. I thought hair pulling was just for girls?
tommyesq said...
Also, Lone Justice seems to think an assault conviction would be no big deal to the coach, so long as it isn't felony assault. But it would mean, in addition to the criminal penalties, that he would forever be unemployable by schools (at a minimum), and never able to participate in anything requiring a CORI form, so no cub scouts, no other coaching, can't even drive a school bus), all for something that at no point threatened actual harm.
--------------
Yes, it is a big deal. And I had to once prosecute a coach for assaulting a junior high school football player who was misbehaving on a school bus. He lost his job. He appealed his case, and he lost. Adults do not lay aggressive hands on minors. Case closed.
I think (with all due respect to Prof. Althouse) this is getting WAY out of context.
We are talking about a high school game and a high school student and a high school coach. Yes, if it had been one of my granddaughters that got her hair pulled, I'd have been po'ed! But on the other hand, I don't think ANY of them would have deserved it.
But the discussion seems to be about a high schooler who complained about the coach's treatment of her. Gosh Almighty! When I was that age, I didn't have a pony tail (being a guy in the '50's) but that's what coaches were SUPPOSED to do. It was supposed to make you BETTER!
. But it would mean, in addition to the criminal penalties, that he would forever be unemployable by schools (at a minimum), and never able to participate in anything requiring a CORI form, so no cub scouts, no other coaching, can't even drive a school bus)
-----------
Unless he's really aged poorly, that old man is well past retirement age. Give him an out... he shouldn't be working with kids at that age. Mandatory retirement for more school coaches would be a good thing. Doubt the guy is on the teaching staff... they often have to bring in guys from the neighborhood, not the school, for the p-t coaching contracts, especially girls' sports. Hence my hopes for a female teacher (trained to work with that age group) who can ball herself. The women are out there, you just got to get the old men to retire, find another hobby that's healthier for all.
When I was that age, I didn't have a pony tail (being a guy in the '50's) but that's what coaches were SUPPOSED to do. It was supposed to make you BETTER!
------------
You came up in a stupid place, in a stupid town, with stupid parenting.
Anybody who tolerates letting people put hands on their kid is sick. Say it with me???
I used to play pickup Bball games 50+ years ago and had a ponytail. If someone grabbed me by the ponytail (putting me in an extremely vulnerable position) I would have punched him hard in the throat.
The young lady should have punched that coach as hard as she could in the throat.
I guess I am getting old.
If I ever told any of my high school coaches, or teachers, or anyone in an authority position (especially one who was telling us to behave appropriately) to "Fuck off," I would have been immediately kicked off the team and suspended. And my parents would have backed the coach. If she said that in front of the team (as she apparently did) she ought to be suspended, regardless of what happens to the coach.
Is this really how we want high school students to behave?
I have a daughter who played competitive sports all through high school. I would be mortified if she had ever done anything like this (she never did anything like that, of course, and I am extremely proud of her).
The coach was trying to get her attention. And yes, he was pissed. Have you ever had a teenager under your responsibility tell you to "Fuck off" in public? The pony tail was the equivalent of grabbing her arm or shoulder. I wonder how any of us would have responded in that situation.
This should not be a national incident.
But like I said, I'm getting old.
"But like I said, I'm getting old."
You and me both. If that's what truly instigated it, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the girl. Not that the coach's action was wise in this day and age.
"Not that the coach's action was wise in this day and age."
I mean, you've got lone justice spoiling to put in in jail.
Yanked. Not pulled. When I was about 2 I had sisters aged 12, 10 and 9. Mid fifties. Many chances to experiment.
At the middle school level, I've coached both all boys and all girls basketball teams. Two different animals...
Also--Am I the only one who thinks, as a practical matter, that if you are subject to being deeply emotionally traumatized by having your ponytail pulled, you probably shouldn't be playing BASKETBALL with a ponytail? Maybe put it in a bun or something?
"Not that the coach's action was wise in this day and age."
According to the article, the coach has apologized and expressed regret over his actions. Apparently, the reporter did not include a response from the child involved.
"According to the article, the coach has apologized and expressed regret over his actions."
toughjustice doesn't care.
boatbuilder said...
I guess I am getting old.
Me too. The country is infested with mean bitchy AWFL Karens and nobody thinks about why this is.
The coach was trying to get her attention. And yes, he was pissed. Have you ever had a teenager under your responsibility tell you to "Fuck off" in public? The pony tail was the equivalent of grabbing her arm or shoulder. I wonder how any of us would have responded in that situation.
He should have grabbed her shoulder and turned her around. He made a mistake imo.
But nobody here seems to want to address the situation in an adult manner.
The coach had a player acting like a bitch not shaking hands after a game. She told him out loud in front of the team to fuck off when he told everyone to shake hands with the other team.
If my daughter did that to one of her coaches I would be ashamed of myself. But it is a very strong possibility this girl didn't have a father.
The main problem with this post is the Misogyny. A large number of posters on this thread think Women are pathetic losers with no self respect or decency an that no woman should ever be made to feel bad about anything no matter how poorly they act.
1. Coach should have just kicked her off the field and either suspended her or expelled her from the team for poor sportsmanship - if the story is true.
2. Male coaches of girl's teams should be allowed to pull ponytails only if dads are allowed to kick his ass with impugnity. Fair Dinkum? This will teach lessons all the way 'round.
3. Failing that, pulling a girl's ponytail from behind is the exact opposite of Leadership, not so? Coach fails as a leader. Can't argue with the decision to fire.
Would be great to see response from rest of the teammates. They gonna side with usually jovial coach, or with constantly bitchy prima donna?
Re: "children"
Wilfred "Wilfredo" Benítez (born September 12, 1958) is an American-born Puerto Rican former professional boxer and the youngest world champion in the sport's history. Earning his first of three career world titles in separate weight divisions at the age of seventeen,
Bobo OlsenUsing a fake identity card Olson obtained a boxing license at the age of 16. His earliest fights were in his native Kalihi, Hawaii. He had won his first three contests, two by knockout, before his true age was discovered.
Sometimes only one days difference between 17 year old child and 18 year old adult.
"Male coaches of girl's teams should be allowed to pull ponytails only if dads are allowed to kick his ass with impugnity. Fair Dinkum?"
Is pulling your ponytail the equivalent of getting your ass kicked?
"The main problem with this post is the Misogyny." Could be. What are you thinking?
"A large number of posters on this thread think Women are pathetic losers with no self respect or decency an that no woman should ever be made to feel bad about anything no matter how poorly they act." Oh. Huh. So the people who think that a grown man shouldn't be putting his hands on girls are the misogynists, and the people who think that the girl had it coming are the defenders of women?
Yeah, I don't think that's the main problem. It was not so many generations ago that men were expected to be gallant and protective towards women, and it would have been universally understood that this coach was out of line. But in these days of post-modern chivalry, the gentlemen are all about beating up girls to show how much they care.
3/23/25, 6:51 PM
“And old boomers and their dumb old rules. Don't ever hit a woman (even if she cuts your balls), dont ever touch a minor girl. Good God, do these people ever interact with real life girls and women in 2025?”
The guy thinks Gazans/Hamas “interacted” with Israelis on that sad October day in 2023.
What if it wasn't the coach who puller her hair, but her dad, or mom? Grandpa or Grandma? Still prosecute?
Is it the act, or the person?
What if mom catches drunk 17 year old daughter sneaking home through window at 3.a.m. and daughter says "Fuck off and throws a punch at mom?
I'm almost 70. I played HS and early college football. That's just for context.
If this coach was fired for pulling that pigtail, then there is no place in athletics for females.
Teach them checkers and cooking. Softly, with no criticism.
FullMoon said...
What if it wasn't the coach who puller her hair, but her dad, or mom? Grandpa or Grandma? Still prosecute?
Is it the act, or the person?
What if mom catches drunk 17 year old daughter sneaking home through window at 3.a.m. and daughter says "Fuck off and throws a punch at mom?
3/23/25, 8:40 PM
Pretty easy answers here. This isn't a Solomonic dilemma here, folks. Yes, it's different when a family disciplines a child then when a non-family member does, particularly when that discipline becomes physical. Non-family members don't enjoy the same privileges and rights as non-family members, socially or legally.
bobby said...
If this coach was fired for pulling that pigtail, then there is no place in athletics for females.
3/23/25, 8:52 PM
So, unless men can physically assault teenage girls, then women shouldn't play sports. Huh...
I got a better one: If that coach can't figure out how to correct a girl's behavior without assaulting her, then men need to stay out of women's athletics.
Probably the best solution is that girls/women’s sports only be coached by women or men who identify as women. Problem solved.
Michael Fitzgerald said...
Pretty easy answers here. This isn't a Solomonic dilemma here, folks. Yes, it's different when a family disciplines a child then when a non-family member does, particularly when that discipline becomes physical. Non-family members don't enjoy the same privileges and rights as non-family members, socially or legally.
3/23/25, 9:08 PM
So, ok for relatives to physically assault children for mis-behaving?
Needs pony tail self defense training. Here it is done right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fByBrng1U
Mikey Fitz, the old days of gallentry imposed social rules on both sexes. Men didn't hit women, women didn't tell men to fuck off, particularly when what is so upsetting to the woman was something (here, losing a high school basketball game) that was far more her fault than his.
By the way, what disciplinary action is the school taking against a student athlete who told her coach to fuck off for demanding that she accept her team's loss gracefully and shake hands with her opponent? Isn't that the kind of lesson that justifies schools spending taxpayers money on sports?
Michael Fitzgerald,
Thirty years ago I was discussing a mild behavioral problem of my son, with his second grade teacher. In passing, I demonstrated (on my own face) a technique I had used once or twice, at home, to regain his attention. Lightly tapping his cheekbone with two fingers.
This candor resulted in me having a record with county CPS, as the teacher, in her role as a mandated reporter, decided to report me.
The state here, Calif, even then, was well on its way to criminalizing parental acts.
Aikido is not for self defense.
@Achilles, glad I didn’t know that because when I absolutely needed to defend myself I used an aikido technique and it worked just fine. And I never got above 2nd brown.
Aggie said...
1. Coach should have just kicked her off the field and either suspended her or expelled her from the team for poor sportsmanship - if the story is true.
Agreed. But if she refuses to shake hands that is dishonor to the coach, to the school, and that kind of primadona BS
2. Male coaches of girl's teams should be allowed to pull ponytails only if dads are allowed to kick his ass with impugnity. Fair Dinkum? This will teach lessons all the way 'round.
If my daughter acted like that I would be apologizing to the coach and promising she never treated him that way again and there would be consequences for her acting like that.
3. Failing that, pulling a girl's ponytail from behind is the exact opposite of Leadership, not so? Coach fails as a leader. Can't argue with the decision to fire.
That is stupid. The girl acts like a complete bitch and the coach trying to correct her gets fired. Yeah he did it in a way that wont work but at least he tried unlike everyone else around this woman.
You people just like having Karen run things in these schools it seems.
“I don't know ponytails were back. When going to HS in the late 70s , it was thought of as a 50s thing. Something you'd see in Happy Days.”
Back when my daughter entered HS, maybe 15 years ago, she and the few other girls who had short hair, grew it out. Mandatory athletics meant that they all wore ponytails when they played sports. In HS, that’s what a ponytail meant - female athlete. Then, they had kids (mostly early 30s), and many got “mommy” cuts.
We live a mile from Scottsdale to the east and the south. And around there, you find a lot of ponytails in older women. Common look in the middlemen aged women is well toned bodies, dressed for tennis, or maybe golf, expensive coloring job, in a ponytail.
So a hall of fame coach in boys basketball retires from coaching. Then after 13 years takes his first job coaching girls when he moves to a new town for his ailing wife (who since dies). He must have talent, going to state championship both his first 2 seasons. But sounds like at 81 he was, in his own word, a dinosaur, completely unsuited to takimg up coaching teen girls.
First Daughter wearing a ponytail: WATCH: Ivanka Trump Captivates the Internet with Viral Video Showing Off Her Jiu-Jitsu Skills.
To clarify a bit. When my daughter was in high school, the style was long hair. Those few girls who had worn it short in middle school, grew it out. They wore it straight, and in school, often pulled back behind their ears. They had mandatory athletics, which means that they all worked out after school, most often playing some team sport. And the solution to long hair, on the playing field, court, etc, was most often ponytails. Not unusual to have 20 or so girls out on the field, at onetime, all wearing ponytails. Lasso would have been in Heaven.
Long hair remains fashionable, especially maybe with that generation. We see AG Pam Bondi with her long straight golden hair. And others, in his Cabinet, at MAGA rallies, etc. And still in colleges and universities, and a ponytail means that they work out, whether it’s jogging, bicycling, or Jiu-Jitsu, in the case of Ivanka. And, I think in Scottsdale, where the women are a bit older, it suggests the same thing - that they exercise. Several today at the grocery store looked like they were between tennis matches. Or maybe had been out jogging.
Let me add, that my partner, old enough to be on Medicare, often sports a ponytail. We have packages of elastic hair ties everywhere. Around the house, she tends to wear it straight. But when we go out anywhere, it goes into a ponytail. No grey hair yet, so she can get away with it. Her sister and daughter have what she calls “bowling ball” faces, and look good in shorter hair. She though has classic French features, and looks best in longer hair. Daughter talked step granddaughter (a beautician) into cutting it the same length as she wore. Big mistake. That short of hair freaked her out so badly that I found myself one Sunday running around Phoenix finding her hair extensions. Luckily, a year later, it’s grown out long enough that she is back to normal.
I played three high school sports in the 70’s. I remember one defensive line coach who would grab guys by their facemasks. Nothing else. Ever and those were hard ass coaches. Well not my soccer coach, he was definitely a hippie pothead who knew little about the game. He was cool, bait we were never good.
I need to proofread.
BTW, the coach is 81 years old. I wondered last night why there was so much hysteria over this. I think its because it combines two current day values (1) The hysterical almost feminine reaction against any kind of physical violence no matter how minor or harmless, and (2) the dumb white knight, mostly boomer, reaction against any physlcal violence by men against any women (My Lady, I wilst die rather than touch a hair on your head).
The spoiled brat player, who cried, refused to shake the other teams hand, and cursed out her coach, can now be proud of herself. She now the victim, the poor little girl almost raped by the bad ol' man.
Anyway, I hope the Girl's father, beats up this 81 y/o man who tried to teach his daughter some sportsmanship.
Final comment. I had humorous experience with this hysteria over minor physical infractions a month ago. I was at a used book sale, one man reached over to look at a book in front of an old boomer and touched his arm. "Excuse me" the man said. the Boomer then said "yes, that's the correct thing to say. But you touch me again, and I'll take you outside and teach you some manners". He then glared menancing at the other guy, who said nothing but walked away.
Imagine this was at a fucking book sale! Over a touch on the arm.
As the youngsters say: "Da fuck?"
Some of my high school coaches were of the Bobby Knight mold and did worse to me and my teammates. But, we were boys becoming men, and any of us complaining about it would have been ridiculed.
I suppose that even in those distant days of tough men, yanking a girl's ponytail would have been frowned upon.
Can you pull on the top knot of the Trans players?
Life is so confusing when the rules are gone.
I keed, I keed.
The oldest coaches out there grew up in a time of (largely) male athletes and an attitude that acts like this would toughen you up.
They'll be gone soon.
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