Said Vivian Jenna Wilson, quoted in "Vivian Jenna Wilson on Being Elon Musk’s Estranged Daughter, Protecting Trans Youth and Taking on the Right Online/In Teen Vogue’s special issue cover story, the estranged 20-year-old daughter of Elon Musk talks about the 'cartoonishly evil' Trump administration and being a young trans woman today" (Teen Vogue).
The "[essentially]" is Teen Vogue's. I guess they're afraid the accusation of defamation is itself defamation and want to avoid seeming to be adopting that defamation. The "book" in question is, I believe, Walter Isaacson's biography of Elon Musk. What specific statement of fact has she called defamatory? I asked Grok — and maybe Grok defamed her — but I gather she is displeased that Isaacson deadnamed her and that he presented her as something of a gay male stereotype. Saying one has been "defamed" is quite different from suing for defamation. You can use words however you want, but I can see how Teen Vogue wants to distance itself. Consider whether Isaacson has a cause of action. Did Wilson defame him when she said that he defamed her?
My next question to Grok was this: Did Isaacson show any sensitivity or remorse about writing so invasively about a person that young? Is that normal for biographers, going into the details of the youthful confusion or troubles of their subject's child, attempting to explain her psychology? Isn't that morally wrong?
Wilson was 19 when Isaacson's book came out.
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71 comments:
"...a gay male stereotype."
Why yes Grok, most of them are very mad at their dads, just like Vivian.
the magazine that pushes communism and street walking as vocation, well I am shocked,
I guess i'm not surprised how stupid and shallow she ? is
I assume this person started out male. Hard to tell at this point what to call them. Do they have a Penis? Did it get chopped off?
I feel bad for this person and the damage that was done to them mentally and physically while they were a minor.
But they are adults now and they are trying to create a situation where this happens to more people who are young and vulnerable. This is gross.
This is very much like Muslim women holding their daughters down and cutting out their clitoris's. It is evil.
We are scolded by the left to embrace men in dresses in women's spaces.
We are also scolded by the left that trannies are less than 1% - so stop all your bitching.
As an "estranged daughter" I'm sure she is working full time, living check to check, and not benefiting at all from her father's money. If she hates her Dad so much, I'm sure she would refuse any money or financial help.
From your headline and its use of "Honey" I expected to read a story about a middle-aged Southern woman.
Or, on further thought, a gay dude.
@Gusty Winds, the publicly activist and independent part of his personality would never, but the emotionally stunted, rebelliously narcissistic part of his personality says gimme gimme gimme.
The "Nazi salute" is a woke Democrat / leftist lie. Musk is right. The woke mind virus stole his son from him. So much so, he/she or whatever, is now just another among the growing mass of the leftwing brainwashed.
In the interviews I've seen (does not include JP) Elon literally says he "lost" his son Dillon, that Dillon is essentially dead and Vivian has taken his place. That sounds like explaining more than "dead-naming" and the explanation is consistent with the logic of the term dead-naming. Is there some reason we have to avoid any reference to the "dead-name"?
Oh yeah, that was it. Musk said, "Lost my son to the woke mind virus." Thanks, Gusty. I knew my memory left something out.
I have noticed something online and via in-person confrontations witnessed on the web that drives transprysns insane, and that would be anything that alludes to them being just gay men, or worse, gay bottom men. It makes them furious, probably because of how close to home it hits.
With every year that passes I am becoming more aware that much of this hysteria is a psychologically and medically-assisted denial of something these people hate deeply about themselves, that being mentioned above.
There's a lot of justification for this because In the entire history of humanity, in almost every culture with an infinitesimally small number of exceptions, being a male and the willing recipient of anal sex is nothing to be proud of. Even in advanced neolithic societies with no Abrahamic or pre-Colombian contact like the Aztecs and Maya, being a bottom/receiving male homosexual was punishable by death. Not even ancient Greek society – held up as the paragon of pre-pride homosexual glorification - was genuinely accepting of a full-grown bearded male citizen’s desire to get fucked, seeing only younger men who hadn’t yet put on the ‘Petasos & Chlamys’ or slaves as being acceptable for that purpose.
Modern uncensored anthropology (emphasis on uncensored) has a bunch of theories for why this is, which I won’t get into here, suffice to say that when you hear them they make sense, such as when homosexuals refer to archetypal people like Vivian as "angry bottoms".
When all is said and done, society has evolved and I don't think people really actually care, but you can tell these people clearly have a mental block regarding just being homosexual bottom dudes, and it drives them insane.
Sooner or later, it will happen: "Well don't look at me like I'm frickin' Frankenstein. Give your father a hug."
RSM, ref low status for gay bottoms: It’s deep (pun intended) in our primate DNA. Most apes establish their peck(er)ing order among males by ceremonial mounting, either simulated or with actual penetration. Something must resonate in old parts of a gay bottom’s monkey brain that, no matter how pleasurable it may be or how genuine the love for the other partner, the act is a humiliation.
JSM
@JSM, the humiliation is A) part of the kink I'm sure (forbiddenness) and B) also associated with an increasing public awareness of the 'autogynephilia' phenomenon.
All of this falls squarely under you-do-you, but I think most people globally are becoming heartily sick of being coerced if not outright forced to play along in this charade. It is time to stop letting these people thought-police everyone else's language while simultaneously letting them go be happy in whatever way seems doable for them...
...but what's interesting is it doesn't appear to make them happy. At all.
When your best argument is "Otherwise they kill themselves"...
I don't give a f**k about him. I really don't. It's annoying that people associate me with him. I just don't have any room to care anymore
I've known a lot of 20-yos who talk like this about their parents. Maybe I was one of them back in the day.
It's annoying that people associate me with him. I just don't have any room to care anymore.
Who is this person and why are they allowing Teen Vogue to interview them?
In the Isaacson book, Elon claims that, before she was trans, she was communist and hated him for having money. It’s documented that, at one point, he sold all his property to make her happy. It didn’t work. Then the kid became trans, so the relationship was poor for awhile.
Hey Teen Vogue!
Still standing with Jackie?
You know-Jackie Coakley who lied about being raped, which you, Rolling Stone, Vox, HuffPOSt, and all the other morally ajd ethically bankrupt leftwing pink slime factories masquerading as journalism outlets loved and supported?
We should care/believe anything you publish why?
In ancient, democratic Greece, they would penetrate the back hole of both boys and girls when grooming them to take a knee in servile obeisance. A loving act of sodomy and a modern act of transgenderism and sexual fetish. All's fair in lust and abortion, they bray.
Obama, too. Democrazis. The ethics of the story is just don't wave.
Vivian sounds like a lovely, happy, well-adjusted person. Clearly, modern medicine has done wonders. The angry bottom vanquished.
Next up: the return of lobotomies. Remember, the inventor of the lobotomy got a Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1949. The patients became calmer after treatment. Another Kennedy "tragedy".
When adults, including pediatricians, "persuade" pre-puberty children and minors, that they are in the wrong body is simply evil. As an adult if you want to live a different gender, that's your choice. Trying to bully everyone else into your reality expect some nope.
Undoubtedly a self-supporting child.
I've somehow lived my entire life without accidentally heiling the zeig and Musk does it, twice, on the podium, at Donald Trump's inauguration.
At best, might this show a lack of judgement maybe? A failure to understand and anticipate how things might be interpreted? Tough to be a CEO if you have those blind spots.
When Musk said he was tricked, maybe that’s not the word he used, into co-signing his daughter’s transition, I took that to mean he believes she’s confused and may come to regret her decision to transition.
LLR-democratical and Failed Business "Analyst" (LOL) Rich: "I've somehow lived my entire life without accidentally heiling the zeig and Musk does it, twice, on the podium, at Donald Trump's inauguration."
Of course, this never happened. Like 99% of everything Abacus Boy posts (I'm assuming he might get the day of the week right at times).
These transparent lies, historically weak gaslighting that fools no one, is one reason for the collapse of Li'l Richie's beloved David Hogg led New Soviet Democratical Party.
Which is good given Richie and his ChiCom/Islamic Supremacist alligned pals lack the ability to adapt and thus are destined to continue on their pathway to lunatic lefty-dom failure-ville.
---- Did Wilson defame him when she said that he defamed her?
A truly post-modern question. Cut that baby in half and see if anyone wants any of it!
Families are always interesting, and sometimes horribly so.
That the Left believes its own lies is a surreal aspect of current politics. In future years the Elon Musk "Nazi salute" lie will be listed right up there with the lie about GWBush's serving up a "plastic turkey" in Baghdad to US troops, th elie that a US embassy was overrun by a "spontaneous religious protest" over an unseen film, and the lies about Trump's "Russian collusion and pee tapes."
I, for one, look forward to the next iteration of being told not to believe my own lying eyes, but rather to blindly follow what I'm told to think. To hell with them, and to hell with that.
Everybody with three working synapses to rub together knew that that was not a Nazi salute. This is another problem the Democrats are having with "messaging," there "messaging," and by "messaging" I mean "lies," are just too transparent. It's like when the propaganda chief spokesman for Ukraine couldn't bring himself to keep claiming that all of Russia's missiles had been shot down in this attack or that, when everybody knew it wasn't true. Kiev just doubled down and got a spokesman who would say it with a straight face, but ultimately, it just destroyed their credibility.
Kaki--Musk gestured from the heart to the crowd as virtually all politicians do from time to time (there are pictures). Notwithstanding your self-serving professions, I conjecture even you have raised an arm to salute boon companions whose achievements you admire...or maybe you don't have any friends. The "Nazi salute" is a blown up non-scandal intended to excite credulous morons. That is not you, is it?
The worst thing about the Nazi salute lie is the follow on propaganda that Nazis should be killed. That's one of those statements that I tend to agree with, as long as we have an agreed definition of "Nazi."
"Said Vivian Jenna Wilson, quoted in "Vivian Jenna Wilson on Being Elon Musk’s Estranged Daughter, Protecting Trans Youth and Taking on the Right Online/In Teen Vogue’s special issue cover story, the estranged 20-year-old daughter of Elon Musk talks about the 'cartoonishly evil' Trump administration and being a young trans woman today" (Teen Vogue)."
Corrected version:
Said Vivian Jenna Wilson, quoted in "Vivian Jenna Wilson on Being Elon Musk’s Estranged Son, Encouraging mentally ill Youth and Taking on the Right Online/In Teen Vogue’s special issue cover story, the estranged 20-year-old son of Elon Musk talks about the 'cartoonishly evil' Trump administration and being a young mentally ill man today" (Teen Vogue).
And I'm supposed to give a shit about what he thinks, why?
He's 20 and 'trans'? Come back in 20 years when you're not insane and then let's see.
(edited for proper pronoun.)
First, the Nazi Hitler salute did not come into universal German until after the Stauffenberg assassination attempt in 1944. All officers before that would offer military salutes. See: Ian Kershaw's book - The End: The Defiance and Destruction of Hitler's Germany, 1944-45. Every member of the German military was desperate to separate themselves from the conspirators. And this was an outward public sign. Second, that salute is extremely common in western history going back to Roman times. I'm too lazy now to check my Greek histories but I would assume it was so then, but rarely mentioned. Third, I do not understand either ungrateful children or the trans social hallucination. All I know is that i will not be a part of their delusions. They can't make me call them by what they wish, anymore then I can demand they call me Marcellus Vespa, Legionnaire of the XX1 Legion of the Roman Empire. We used to ridicule the Napoleon is the mental ward, now it seems to be universally celebrated on the left. Leave me out.
Would Vivian be in Teen Vogue if the estranged father was a claims adjuster in Peoria?
Disparity, you're making me wonder if Harris' step-daughter is still a fashion model.
@Disparity, If Vivian's estranged father was a claims adjuster in Peoria he just would've joined the Zizians for the sweet sweet fame and moral omnipotence he seeks.
todd galle said, "Second, that salute is extremely common in western history going back to Roman times. I'm too lazy now to check my Greek histories but I would assume it was so then, but rarely mentioned."
Nobody go telling the plains indians or Zulus that raising an open hand in greeting might be misconstrued.
This is practically a genre, isn't it?-- "I wish everyone would stop asking me about the only reason anyone ever paid me any attention in the first place."
Family squabbles.
Musk's children with his first wife -- a set of triplets and a set of twins, all male at birth -- were quite young when their parents divorced. Bitterness at the father who left is not unusual.
How is "Teen Vogue" allowed to exist? Everything I read about it seems evil. This would seem to be a prime target for Glenn Reynolds suggestion that Conservatives should start buying up women's magazines, and alter their messages.
I wonder if the NGO's plotting the Tesla Takedown have see the Greenpeace ruling?
>"But other than that, I don't give a f**k about him. I really don't. It's annoying that people associate me with him."<
Yeah, OK, whatever works for you. But damn, dude, that is going to cost you really a whole lot of money...
At 19, she had the most cathartic moment of her whole life.
Ok.
Althouse--you may have defamed this person by describing her "youthful confusion."
I don't make the rules.
Nobody can make you play along with their delusions.
Per what Ridespacemountain wrote above:
Over the past few years I have known three M to F trans that went at least as far as serious quantities of hormones (I don't know about surgery). One's family was orthodox Jewish, one was Muslim, one was Roman Catholic, and I wonder if those religious backgrounds are not entirely coincidences.
Maybe M to F trans is what happens when young men who have the desire to have sex with other men have internalized the belief, from their religious upbringing, that such sex is morally wrong: since they can't accept that they are morally wrong, they convince themselves that they are actually women, which explains why they desire to have sex with men.
(**This is an observation and a hypothesis, and is not meant to be a potshot at the stricter religions or a sneaky effort to imply that religions should be less strict. I have no idea, and I'm sure there are many complex trade-offs in play. Also, since I'm not a Neocon, I don't believe in evaluating religions in terms of whether or not they might manipulate people into doing things I happen to like.**)
@Prof. M. Drout -- The Shia mullahs in Iran actively encourage (and in some cases probably compel) the medical procedures associated with "transitioning". The idea is that a gay person actually changes sex, and therefore is no longer gay.
Funny how we never hear from the estranged family members of Democrats.
Wilson was 19..
I'm PRETTY SURE, that if you're old enough to castrate yourself..
You're old enough to man up & take it when they call you by your name.
[here in iowa you'd need to be 18]
RSM said..
" psychologically and medically-assisted denial of something these people hate deeply about themselves"
i think, that the Key to gender dysphoria.. is that it is:
DYSPHORIA.
That is; unhappiness with, their bodies, themselves, their genders.
Everything.
They are SO UNHAPPY, that they Willingly mutilate themselves.
IF we were a kind, caring, people; we'd be working with them,
to STOP HATING Themselves.
And i don't think charging them thousands of dollars for drugs and surgeries is the kind caring way.
Of course; on the other hand:
If we are a cash hungry, mercenary bunch of quacks;
Raking in the dough makes perfect sense.
What ARE WE?
"Bitterness at the father who left is not unusual."
Elon Musk has 14 children with four women. Go figure......
Remember kids: It's impossible for us to ever hate Trans people more than they hate themselves.
So these men who dress like women are really just gay men who are ashamed of being gay. They think that dressing and acting as a woman doesn't make them homosexual because they call themselves transsexuals.
Gender refers to sex-correlated attributes (e.g. sexual orientation) is binary: masculine and feminine. Trans refers to a state or process of divergence. The transgender spectrum includes homosexuals. Trans/sims are individuals in a couplet with a heterosexual fetish, where normally there is simply a behavioral contrast (e.g. dominance) between two homosexuals. Albinophobia is represented in Rainbow symbols and rhetoric celebrated by Democrazis in parade. #HateLovesAbortion
"But other than that, I don't give a f**k about him. I really don't. It's annoying that people associate me with him."
The ONLY reason the magazine printed your story was BECAUSE of him. YOU are a nobody without him, so sit down, shut up and enjoy being a boy pretending to be a girl while you can.
My family once owned a small chain of hair salons. We receive a lot of free magazines for our lobby. When Teen Vogue came in we immediately threw it in the trash. Where it belonged.
P.S.
We sold the salons years ago, but I still get my hair cut in one of them. Last time I went in I noticed that the magazine racks were gone. Now everyone just looks at their phones.
Prof. M. Drout said, "Maybe M to F trans is what happens when young men who have the desire to have sex with other men have internalized the belief, from their religious upbringing, that such sex is morally wrong."
That's a cogent theory. As an amateur historian I always try to place myself in the mindset that may have existed for our ancestors to get at the why of the ways things were. I think that for most of the world's people - even those without Abrahamic religious influence - homosexuality has been largely reviled (even if it was tacitly accepted, such as Asia) for the following reasons:
- Disease: there can be very little scientific debate any longer that male homosexual behavior (and frequency) isn't a serious risk vector for communicable disease transmission. Homosexual behavior spreads disease, not just HIV/AIDS and STDs like Monkeypox, but also parasites like hookworms, pinworms, public lice, and tapeworms. Homosexual behavior assists disease, period.
- Group cohesion: gay male activity - even in those cultures where it was tolerated - has always been segregated either de facto or de jure. In essence, it forms a subculture or almost a separate society within a pre-existing one. Not only does this lead to friction, but it could lead to a significant proportion of the labor and fighting forces of a society being unwilling to participate in needed activities instead of just grooming each other and having sex all day.
- Procreation: Obvious. In pre-modern societies where male and female demos are roughly equal, too many dudes doing dudes could lead to lower fertility, not too mention other social ills of female abandonment in eras when a woman without a man was at a significant survival disadvantage.
- Anti-social co-morbidities: we now know homosexuals have an extremely high rate of mental illness. Homosexuals are extremely and disproportionately represented in deviant sexual practices like fetishism, public indecency, and encouragement of same. Ancient societies probably saw this and realized that not only were the homosexuals in their societies not very productive, but were a net drain on social resources that could be otherwise diverted to needier demographics.
- Pederasty: To my knowledge, no human society has ever embraced homosexuality without also embracing pedophilia. Where male homosexuality was practiced and tolerated, pederasty was a feature in all cases.
How sharper than a serpent’s tooth it is to have a thankless child.
"Wilson was 19 when Isaacson's book came out."
Well, plenty of 19 year olds landed on Omaha Beach and Iwo Jima. She was old enough to vote when the book came out, so spare me the tender age sympathy.
Jenna is a common name for 20 somethings. Vivian is an old lady name (and an even older old man name).
•
It's annoying that people associate me with him.
No one would know or care who Vivian Wilson is without Elon Musk.
•
Defame and defamation. I didn't make the connection at first. For a minute I thought defaming meant taking away someone's fame.
The number of older M->F transsexuals who are in relationships with women (Caitlin Jenner being the obvious example) is significant, so possibly when younger men consider themselves to be women it isn't entirely about homosexuality. Add to that the children who feel at an early age that they aren't what their anatomy would suggest. Some are prompted by a parent, but not all. Are they gay? Perhaps, but concepts and categories and ideas about what is fundamental or foundational change over time. Right now, homosexuals are trying to figure out if transpeople are essential allies or renegades who have been misled and have betrayed the cause. Is sexual orientation fundamental or is "gender identity" an equally valid and essential category?
Forgive me if I don't take seriously the viewpoints of a man who thinks he's a woman. Reality is a stranger to this person.
"And then I was like, Okay, whatever...."
Valspeak for everything I just complained about is really meaningless to me, but thanks for listening.
Kakistocracy said...
“I've somehow lived my entire life without accidentally heiling the zeig…”
No, you’re just mostly ‘Haß den Reformern.’
And ‘heiling the zeig’ sounds the same way Tim Walz looks when loading a shotgun.
"Heiling the zeig" would mean "hailing the index[finger]."
Even in advanced neolithic societies with no Abrahamic or pre-Colombian contact like the Aztecs and Maya…
The Aztec (in the north) and Inca (in the south) societies were not “neolithic.” Smelting and working of metals such as copper, gold, silver, and others was already ancient by the era of European contact after about 1500 A.D., while bronze technology specifically—and therefore the Bronze Age—in the Americas dates to about half a millennium earlier: i.e., around the turn of the 2nd millennium A.D. (following a similar transition to bronze in the Old World some 4 millennia before).
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