The decriminalization won’t do much to change New Yorkers’ lives — few people faced ticketing for jaywalking even before the change.
Good then. I don't like to see a law that's not enforced lying around waiting to be enforced on someone. Who? Why?
I'm the sort of person who follows rules because they are rules, and I think it's unfair to people like me to get stuck with limitations that are not restricting the freedom of the people who merely factor in the likelihood of getting caught and punished.
We need to worry about "'pretext offenses' — acts that are criminalized to give cops a pretext to stop, arrest or otherwise manage an unruly or dangerous actor," which may be "a license for cops to harass innocent New Yorkers, particularly black and brown ones."
And: "Jaywalking is, as many have claimed, a 'New York tradition.'"
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The cabs were the worst, hitting the gas as they approached the crosswalks. In high school I was walking through midtown and stupidly walked into the cross traffic. A cabbie decided he’d spare my life. I cheered that I got a cab to slow down, which drew a chuckle from my fellow jaywalkers…
Post editorial makes a pretty good argument, I think.
I jaywalked all the time when I lived in NYC, so did everyone. Judging the traffic patterns was part of the game.
In Boston pedestrians always have the right of way when it’s raining. At least we think we do…
First day of Civ Pro the Prof got into a discussion with one of the students who followed the rules regardless of how stupid. The Prof said, you are one of those who stops at a red light in the middle of nowhere with no one on the roads at 4AM in the morning.
I got a jaywalking ticket in Tucson in 1986; had to appear at a night court to take care of it. It's still my only 'crime.'
Dustin Hoffman was lucky that guy didn't get out of his cab and teach him some manners. But maybe everyone in NYC back then was 5-6 with a loud mouth. (Joke alert - I know its a movie. thank you in advance).
First, I thought they had to have the jaywalking law for insurance and legal liability in case of accident reasons. Second, there's jaywalking and there's jaywalking. Remember the "Gentle Giant" who was walking in the middle of the street and got stopped by the police in Ferguson? And are the going to "de-crimnialize" people "jaywalking" accross a 6 lane highway?
Finally, when are white people going to stop with the "we need to stop this because poor people of color are hardest hit" nonsense? Its been going on my entire life, and I think its fake. If the cops are stopping blacks more then asians/whites in NYC, its probably because blacks commit a lot more crime per capita than asians/whites.
Even usually apathetic corporate HR types will acknowledge the value of having rules on the books that are only enforced in excessive or extreme situations.
But isn't Jaywalking a potential crime Letitia could use against Donald John?
I often see the local high school running club running down Pennsylvania Avenue here in Oak Ridge. There is a light at the intersection with New York Avenue and the runners have to navigate crossing that intersection which is a moderately busy one at that time of the day (4 PM) but is easily jaywalked if you start paying attention just before you reach it so you don't actually have to stop running (I used to do it all the time when I was still running on those routes). In the 14 years I have lived here, I have never once seen one of the runners cross against the light. I can't imagine the kids I grew up with following the rules that way.
Third Coast said...
But isn't Jaywalking a potential crime Letitia could use against Donald John?
They have already changed laws to charge him with things he did in the past.
The Stalinists wouldn't even notice this as a problem.
Adam Carolla has an epic rant about a jaywalking ticket he received in California. The policeman who issued it made an illegal u turn to give it to him. Adam went to court to have it thrown out, but the process was the punishment.
"Jaywalking is, as many have claimed, a 'New York tradition.'"
Yes and no. It depends a lot on the neighborhood.
This white guy got ticketed twice within a few years of moving from NYC to LA. Then stopped. I think there was move to reduce a punishment that was not being evenly applied.
What's the over/under on the time it takes for the "sudden increase" in pedestrian deaths in NYC to be attributed to Trump and White Supremacy?
“First day of Civ Pro the Prof got into a discussion with one of the students who followed the rules regardless of how stupid. The Prof said, you are one of those who stops at a red light in the middle of nowhere with no one on the roads at 4AM in the morning.”
Got pulled over at maybe that time (4 am), by Frisco, CO, pulling off I-70, by CSP, for failure to signal a left turn in a left turn only lane. Not another car in sight. It was a pretextual DUI stop. Ended up blowing .02%, 1/4 the legal limit.
I did kinda got even. I was arrested for DUI. after refusing to take a voluntary roadside sobriety test, on the grounds that in his training and experience (nice rote speech taught at the CSP Academy), I was drunk. I belonged to the (very small) bar there, and offered the criminal defense attorneys to testify against him in his DUI cases, and then told his supervisor that I had done so. I also told him that, in retaliation, his officer had refused to drive me back either home or to my car, after I had been released. It was maybe 10°, and I was lightly dressed at the time. In any case, he was gone fairly quickly after that, presumably transferred (hopefully) to some remote outpost in E CO.
I was also pretextually ticketed several times in my early 20s. In one case, I got two tickets, two blocks apart, on 16th street in Denver, for failing to turn right in a right turn only lane. The big problem was that you couldn’t see the lane markers, because of the snow on the ground. And, yes, it was slick enough that my right rear tire may have swerved into that lane. I couldn’t tell, and neither could they. Two tickets, by two officers, with each cross signing as witnesses for the other, dated a week apart. If I had gone to law school, as my peers had, right after college, instead of having been a ski bum, I might have beat it. But Denver PD had long been far more corrupt than the CSP, so maybe not.
Walking in NYC has become far more dangerous with the widespread use of super quiet electric bicycles going 25 MPH inches away from the sidewalk. Be ultra careful, jaywalking or not.
Jack Klugman did a G-rated version of Dustin's encounter with the cab in the credits for TV's "The Odd Couple."
Watching the short clip it's hard not to think it's Dustin Hoffman talking to Jon Voight. You need more of the movie for the illusion to sink in.
That all said, about pretextual stops by the police, I think that I am more a rule breaker than a rule follower. Or at least that is what my partner says. Fundamentally, I think that, comparatively, women are more the rule followers, and males the rule breakers. She does break rules, and I bet that Ann does too. Just not as often, nor as visibly. My partner had a lead foot, and a series of very fast cars. Her father used to call her “Parnelli”.
Another aspect of this is that attorneys are both better and worse at rule following. It’s our job to know where the lines are, but also where they can be bent. Some respect the law enough that they never challenge it. My father, a rule following attorney, got one ticket in my lifetime. He paid it, despite it being in a judicial district where he was well known by the judges. He could have beat it, but didn’t try. I offered to fight it for him, and he refused. I, on the other hand, have beaten, or significantly bargained down, every ticket I have had, since starting law school. My next brother, also an attorney, is more like our father.
“ Walking in NYC has become far more dangerous with the widespread use of super quiet electric bicycles going 25 MPH inches away from the sidewalk. Be ultra careful, jaywalking or not.”
Electric scooters too. Buzzing down the street between the lanes, often faster than the cars, and then going straight at intersections, cutting off cars turning right from the right lane. Add in that so many wear black, and ride black bikes or scooters, and you have daily disasters just waiting to happen.
Another step toward an IRL Thunder Dome eh NYC? Sheesh. Let that ******* place burn. FTP.
"The decriminalization won’t do much to change New Yorkers’ lives"
Except for the ones who get hit by vehicles. These laws are in place to protect pedestrians. The problem is that since more minorities jaywalk, more minorities were getting tickets for it. But now we'll have more minorities getting hit by vehicles.
Ampersand said...
"Walking in NYC has become far more dangerous with the widespread use of super quiet electric bicycles..."
Also many electric cars and trucks are very quiet. I almost got hit backstage at Disneyland when I walked out between two buildings and a Taylor Dunn small truck was driving past. I didn't hear it at all.
Jaywalking in Boston is so common that I look with scorn on anyone who wastes my time by hitting the "walk" button.
Before it was just conventional bikes, but now people are riding electrical bikes and electrical scooters on busy Chicago sidewalks. Some will walk them but some don't bother.
Lazarus, remember it was Hoffman's second film lead and Voigt's first. Voight has described how he had to discipline himself to stay in character when a cab pushed through the intersection and Hoffman improvised his reaction, including the insurance line.
My grandfather got a ticket in NYC for jaywalking back in the 1960s. He swore that he was the fist ever. He was also convinced that he got it because he was Italian and the cop was Irish. I always suspected that he got the ticket because he told the cop to F-off. He hated the Irish like most of his generation of Italian-Americans.
We had a similar issue here in Seattle a few years ago. Blacks were being arrested more often than any other group, because they jaywalked more often than any other group. So even though the law was being applied in a neutral fashion, it was racist because it disproportionately affected black people. This was the "reasoning" of the Seattle city council.
I, for one, applaud the re-institution of Darwinian street crossing law in New York City.
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