Said JD Vance/Pete Hegseth, quoted in "Now Europe Knows What Trump’s Team Calls It Behind Its Back: 'Pathetic'/Trump officials have demanded more European military spending and questioned the continent’s values. Leaked messages show the depth of the rift" (NYT).
Wouldn't want that to get out, now, would you?
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82 comments:
Chuckle ...
Whether incompetent folly or deliberate machination, the "leak" serves two useful purposes: showing the main players talking sense and willing to disagree, and signaling to Europe the depth of US revulsion at pathetic inaction and weakness (while, like our domestic inferiors, they presume to patronize us).
Europeans shocked! shocked! to learn that not everyone loves them.
Antipathetic
I got $10 that says every Trump official who has visited Europe to discuss NATO taking more responsibility for themselves was just as blunt in their private conversations.
To be fair, Europe's been coasting on defense for decades. But hey, they're so much better than us, right? They've got TRAINS!
Sigh. 80 years, and their economies are unhealthy, Germany's industry is having a tough go with their energy crisis. France's immigration situation's 'interesting', the UK's economy is stagnant to declining and they may be turning into an Islamic nation with no freedom of speech (as we recognize it) so... exactly how much aid do we owe them considering how little they actually care for us?
Well. opposition to EU freeloading - and saying so out loud -- is an impeachable offense, and the punishment is death.
Right - leftists?
Flyover country? Bitter clingers? Sympathetic? Empathetic? Learn to code? Not viable? Sequester that thought. #NoJudgment #NoLabels
Will.. has Europe suffered the progress of European cultural dysphoria?
Yeah, the Trump administration had done such a great job up until then of hiding their disdain for the fucking Eurotrash.
The Europeans new leaders, have known this was coming, and have been talking tough about defense spending increases and stalwart support of Ukraine. Then after a week or two of number crunching, the bad news: They are shocked to discover that the US has been underwriting their lifestyle for the past 2½ decades.
It's a bit odd, almost a condescending, reverse form of noblesse oblige, whereby the American country-bumpkin peasantry is honor-bound to be generous and responsible for the welfare of the European elites.
I think we should call it raw-boned diplomacy.
Dear EU - the American Tax Payer is not your war-time piggy bank.
"Freeloading" in the sense that USA has been protecting Europe from Russian aggression for a long time. But Europe is engaged in its own self-aggression against which it does not wish to be defended: the importation of millions of aliens who do not share (and often actively hate) the values formerly espoused by European citizens. Britain has been Islamizing for decades, to the point where King Charles now calls himself the "Defender of the Faiths." Plural. Why spend American treasure defending that?
Do you think this was intentional? Would not be surprised. The day of the Franco-German free ride are over. The Germans in particular need to do some serious rethinking about their own defense. They are making the right noises, but noises are all so far. When they start getting serious about the failure of "renewable" power we will know that they have seen the light.
Germany is coping with collateral damage from climate progress and [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] immigration reform forced by ethnic Springs. How green could they be to go Green and DEI/IED/DIE, too.
Many EU leaders hate us - and revile our constitution and our free speech.
Many EU leaders are so corrupt - they will imprison your ass for speaking out against them. (Like US leftist wet dreams)
https://x.com/eugyppius1/status/1904596671801286981 this is one example of their contempt for us,
Wouldn't want that to get out, now, would you?
And here I thought getting Goldberg included in the chat was an accident.
The problem isn’t that they’re pathetic, the problem is do they have the energy and/or inclination to do fix themselves? Like the Democrat party, it’s far more comforting to make fun of Trump and continue on the same sad road.
Do we really want a militarized and energetic Europe devastating the rest of the world?
Gravel: "Yeah, the Trump administration had done such a great job up until then of hiding their disdain for the fucking Eurotrash."
Fair.
"Do we really want a militarized and energetic Europe devastating the rest of the world?"
Me personally? No. But is that the only possible, or even probable, outcome if they start spending more on defense?
Spiros Pappas: "Do we really want a militarized and energetic Europe devastating the rest of the world?"
If there were really a possibility of the Euro-weenies actually militarizing themselves this question would be quite relevant.
However the Euro-weenies had all of their actual warrior blood families killed in the last century so no danger of that ever re-emerging.
However, in about 20 years, once all of western europe is muslim and under sharia law with islamic supremacist governments, we will have to address a variation of the original question posed by Spiros.
thats a member of the old east german communists, in a high office in current west germany,
Europe is what happens when the world view shared by American Democrats is implemented with out restraint.
On its present course, most of Europe will be islamic and under sharia law in less than a generation.
Yeah, no problem there Democrats, it's what they want for the USA too.
Muslims with more nukes, shouldn't be a problem at all, right leftists??
That goodness we have the NYT to publish the obvious...
Not only intentional, but Goldberg was on it, very likely. They swerved debate from "We are colluding with Israel to bomb Arabs" to "we are colluding with two Arab countries - Egypt and SA - to open shipping lanes to Europe". Goldberg is continuing with his "hero of anti-Trump movement", MW is at "he learned his lesson" stage, while still a neocon contact, etc. Quite brilliant if true.
The EU? Why should we care SO MUCH about the lives of others?
"Wouldn't want that to get out, now, would you? "
Especially not after JDV expressed himself on the same subject in a slightly more wordy fashion to the Europeans in Munich a month or so ago. Best way to keep it secret is to keep on saying it, and then making sure it gets leaked to one of the usual suspects to republish it all as a scoop.
ISWDT Iman
....the old candid comment into a hot mic trick. Classic...
Iman: "The EU? Why should we care SO MUCH about the lives of others?"
Nicely done. Perfect sub-reference.
BBC has a darker spin, as "Disdain for Europe in US Signal chat horrifies EU":
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c204vl27n2qo
Europe is gonna have to stand up for themselves. WW2 penance is over.
With the exception of a few Eastern European countries, the rest of the place can piss right off. They're not our allies. They're parasites. And it's long past time for them to shit or get off the pot.
"exactly how much aid do we owe them considering how little they actually care for us?"
Based on their actions, they don't care for *themselves*.
The issue is that the Europeans don't even try to strengthen their defensive capability. They simply carry on with their daily silliness, confident that Uncle Sugar will protect them.
Guns or butter? Ima European; give me all the Land 'o Lakes you got.
Think of it. No more US taxpayer money to prop a Europe that is bent on killing itself. Nor more thousands of troops and weapons sitting at bases all over the Continent and the UK. Stop the dollars and bring the troops home. WWII is over and so is the cold war. Europe can fend for itself. They can just inform their enemies that they are morally superior and thus the enemies must go away and not bother them.
I am sure it will work out just terrific for them.
I think you're forgetting that thing that the EU and NATO helped us on that was vital for our defense. You know, the uh..that thing. You rememeber, right? Anyway, we need to help Europe because otherwise they wouldn't be our allies. And then we couldn't help them.
NATO lost its reason to exist when the Berlin wall fell. But we keep acting like the Cold war didn't end 35 years ago.
So its a scandal that administration negligence accidentally leaked highly secret information, right? So then its a criminal offense for the reporter and the NYT to release this information, right?
Jerry:
"Germany's industry is having a tough go with their self-indlicted energy crisis"
FIFY
Yeah, it's not as if he didn't say that to their faces.
Who was the staffer who did this? We all need to know.
He/she should be fired.
Blimey
In the next one,
---the Brits bring the tea and crumpets
---the Germans bring the bratwurst and sauerkraut
---the French bring the croissants and the wine
---the Belgiums and the Danes bring the beer
---the Italians bring the canolis
---the Spanish bring who-knows-what
and the Muslims will bring themselves, eat the food and kill as is their wont,
and the Americans don't show up.
Gotta admit, the Soviets won. They funded the green and disarmament movements in Europe. I just wonder some times what Vlad, the old KGB agent thinks about the way things turned out.
So, IOW, they invited Goldberg to the conversation so they could let the Europeans know that it's put up or shut up time?
Sounds good
It's nothing new, and Europe knows it already. They have been freeloading off of us, drawing us into their wars, for over a century now.
Basically the shock is that they say the same things in private as they say in public.
I think DJT is pissed off that the Europeans are siding with
Ukraine instead of Russia, his preferred ally. Trying to shame them. Tacky
Drago, I think a lot of what you're saying is nonsense. Europe has avoided hegemony because of intense geopolitical competition between its various nations and peoples. Even the most virulent Germanic tribes were unable to eliminate their rivals and dominate Europe. It has nothing to do with its people being sissies or anything like that.
Also, I don't think you realize just how much Europeans hate the Muslim refugees. The anti-immigrant stuff in the United States is not too bad. In Europe, it's genocidal.
There will be another genocide in Europe. Bet on it. The only question is who/whom?
https://pjmedia.com/charlie-martin/2025/03/25/counterintelligence-and-canary-traps-n4938265
Spiros @5:10pm
I agree with everything you wrote......but its not going to matter in the end. The muslims will simply be too strong, too numerous, too willing to pay whatever price to "win".
The euro-weenies are committed to their own destruction. Only in Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe is there even a willingness to fight back....and those elements are slowly being isolated and outlawed from even running for office.
“Also, I don't think you realize just how much Europeans hate the Muslim refugees.”
If they hate them so much, why do they keep electing governments that are soft on immigration? It seems whatever hatred of the Muslim refugees is there is dwarfed by the fear of being labeled “far right,” “Neo-Nazi,” or worst of all, “Trumpist.”
Thee NATO experiment worked very well vs. the Soviets while the USA was paying the bills and calling the shots. Europe was at peace (with some minor ructions in the Baltics and in the old Soviet empire) for 80 years, and the Soviet Union dissolved peacefully. That blew up with the Afghan/Iraq wars, when the USA bit off more than we were willing to chew. At the same time US/EU diplomacy proved itself unable dictate the status of Ukraine, which is right at Russia's doorstep. Also the formation of the EU gave rise to the feeling here that anything as large and prosperous as the EU should be able to at least pay for its own defence. Which is where we are today. I will be extremely surprised if the EU mounts anything serious in its own defence, and I can't see Ahmed and Mohammad, residents of France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Hungary, etc., leaping into uniform to defend the values of Western liberalism. The posturings of Carney of the Great White North (after years of Trudeaupian mush) are ridiculous. My Canadian friends remind me that no French Canadians in WWII had to leave North America unless they volunteered to do so. That showed some cultural commitment!
I sincerely hope that the Europeans/Canadians pull themselves together to defend Western values, but I see a long, hard, bitter road ahead.
When we speak about fairness and defense budgets, it's worth remembering that the poorest state in the USA (Mississippi) is roughly as wealthy as Germany and the UK, and the US as a whole is twice as wealthy as the EU as a whole in terms of per capita GDP.
"If they hate them so much, why do they keep electing governments that are soft on immigration?"
The Europeans have a tiger by the tail and are afraid to let go.
Biff--that is true, but Europe is rich compared to most of the rest of the world, including Russia and the Middle East.
Yes, we have more wealth, but they live there.
I dunno. Hegseth and Vance come right out and say what they really think. As for Biff at 6 :00 pm it's true that relative wealth is one thing. But the US's request is for a simple percentage of the various countries GDP. Yeah the pie is smaller and 2% of a smaller pie is a smaller amount. Those countries need to step up and fly a little bit right.
Peachy said...
Dear EU - the American Tax Payer is not your war-time piggy bank.
We’re not their peace-time piggy bank, either. It’s way past time for them to grow up and pay their own way.
Amadeus, I don't think it was a matter of size. The Euros found out the hard way in the Balkans in the 1990s that 'soft power' doesn't have much meaning without the ability to reach out and touch somebody.
RCOCEAN II said..."Anyway, we need to help Europe because otherwise they wouldn't be our allies. And then we couldn't help them."
Exactly.
I am only belatedly coming to realize how much Europe needs a threatening Russia to keep the US on the hook for their defense spending.
I watched a BBC panel discussion recently between European officials, ostensibly on providing for their own defense, but their primary concern was which country could be the arms provider of an integrated defense force (i.e. who could profit from it). I don't see these guys getting their act together anytime soon.
I dunno. I had too much Hist West Civ in high school and college. I still think of us and Europe as best buds, together forever, come what may.
Original Mike: "I am only belatedly coming to realize how much Europe needs a threatening Russia to keep the US on the hook for their defense spending."
"The accomplished and insightful British general Hasting Ismay is remembered today largely because of his famous assessment of NATO, offered when he was the alliance’s first secretary general. The purpose of the new treaty organization founded in 1952, Ismay asserted, was “to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.”
Lazarus: "I dunno. I had too much Hist West Civ in high school and college. I still think of us and Europe as best buds, together forever, come what may."
20 years ago I would have agreed with you to an extent. Since then, the suicide pact the EU is running by seeking to literally replace their populations with immigrants that hate the West and everything the West stands for (in general, not every single immigrant, just most, which is enough) will be their undoing and the people doing this will be defending it right up until the moment some islamic supremacist takes their heads.
"I had too much Hist West Civ in high school and college."
The European version of West Civ is certainly on the road to being history. Don't suppose muslims will be teaching it, though.
The Europeans are SO angry at Muslim immigrants that they…. That they….. That they…..
I asked Grok a few days ago to come up with an estimate for how much the US had spent on NATO. The estimate was about $21 trillion.
I think the sobering thing for the Eu is the realization a majority of American's want out of NATO and have no interest in subsidizing their defense any further when they are still importing the bulk of their energy from Russia, their supposed enemy. All of their collective chest thumping about sending "troops" to the Ukraine is laughable. We no longer share any values that I recognize.
Oso Negro: "The Europeans are SO angry at Muslim immigrants that they…. That they….. That they….."
......make videos with young caucasian girls that are shown in muslim nations inviting muslim men to come to Europe.
.......create new processing and housing centers in the middle of ancient towns and villages with numbers of single, military age men who immediately outnumber the town's original inhabitants.
.......allow sharia courts and sharia vigilante mobs to enforce sharia law to rise up in No-Go zones where muslim-land are now firmly established.
......allow muslim mobs to pour out by the thousands into street to block all commerce and traffic while the muslims pray....and then arrest and imprisons any non-muslim that dares complain about it or say anything negative about it on social media.
......change their primary and secondary schools academics to include learning and teaching of the koran while eliminating study of Christianity and Judaism.
.......Force entire communities to go full halal and "respect" and adhere to ramadan practices
.........Allow muslim immigrants to have multiple wives (under a different "marriage" type arrangement) with many, many children while providing the muslim families with extraordinary financial benefits without any work requirements.
.......Reuse to prosecute muslims for mob violence against non-muslims but will arrest Christian women for silently praying on street corners. Literally.
This list could go on for another hour.
Jay said...
"Gotta admit, the Soviets won. They funded the green and disarmament movements in Europe. I just wonder some times what Vlad, the old KGB agent thinks about the way things turned out."
Yes, the 'win' they gained will end up being their loss...Islam is the plague that will destroy them. And perhaps us here in the US as well.
I think DJT is pissed off that the Europeans are siding with
Ukraine instead of Russia
I think he is more pissed off that Europeans are siding with Ukraine using our money and Ukrainian's lives rather than their own instead of Russia.
When we speak about fairness and defense budgets, it's worth remembering that the poorest state in the USA (Mississippi) is roughly as wealthy as Germany and the UK, and the US as a whole is twice as wealthy as the EU as a whole in terms of per capita GDP.
Meaning what, exactly? That the US is bound to pay for the defense of every nation poorer than it? By that logic, we should be funding both Ukraine and Russia, and both Hamas and Israel (wait, we are - or at least were - doing exactly the latter of those).
Spiros Pappas: "Do we really want a militarized and energetic Europe devastating the rest of the world?"
Well, that depends. As others point out, they're currently rather... um... emasculated at this point. So I'm thinking they've likely got 100 years or so of moderate peace if they can get their asses away from the green fantasies that are making them poor.
But they're importing a militant strain with Islam, and the administrations of the various EU countries have apparently decided that come hell or high water, Islam will be a common binding force in the future. Which is not selling well to their populations - but who cares what the peasants want when the 'elite' make the decisions for the country?
With that - they've got maybe 25 years max before the Islamic-controlled countries in the EU decide that they can't coexist with the non-Islamic countries like Hungary and Poland and Denmark.
We'll see.
Someone in Europe is going to be upset. Should we expect a strongly worded letter?
Europe's ears are burning. How dare they say that about me!
Yeah I guess there are only two alternatives:
1) Status quo where we let Europe freeload off us and drag us into WW III with Russia. Or...
2) Cutting off all trade with Europe, burning all movies, music, and books from Europe, and withdrawing into fortress America.
Seriously, what the hell does Western Culture have to do with it. We're talking trade and foreign policy.
Well put, Drago.
Seriously, what the hell does Western Culture have to do with it. "
Everything.
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