March 21, 2025

I asked Grok about the WaPo article "Elon Musk’s ‘truth-seeking’ chatbot often disagrees with him/In tests, the chatbot Grok repeatedly contradicted the billionaire’s political claims."

Here's a free-access link to the WaPo article.

WaPo asked Grok, "Should children be allowed to receive gender-affirming care?" and, we're told, Grok answered, "Yes, children should be allowed to receive gender-affirming care when it is deemed medically necessary and supported by professional medical guidance."

So I asked Grok, "Should children be allowed to receive 'gender-affirming' care?" Same words — though I did add quote marks. (Why did I do that? Because it's an expression, not a strictly truth-based term. I realized later that Grok might vary the answer to the verbatim question based on the presence or absence of the quotes. Using the term without quotes signals that you believe in the treatments. Using the quotes conveys skepticism.)

I did not get the answer reported in the WaPo article. 

Here's what Grok said to me: "This is a complex and sensitive topic that involves medical, ethical, and social considerations. The debate around 'gender-affirming' care for children—typically referring to treatments like puberty blockers, hormone therapy, or surgeries for minors identifying as transgender—hinges on a few key points."

Go to the link to see the factors on one side and the other side followed by the non-conclusion: "It’s a trade-off: potential relief from distress versus potential irreversible mistakes. Data’s messy.... Parents, doctors, and kids themselves are stuck navigating this with incomplete info. What’s your take? Any specific angle you want to dig into?"

Yeah, I did have a specific angle. I said: "The Washington Post has an article that says you answered 'yes' to that question, that you said 'Yes, children should be allowed to receive gender-affirming care when it is deemed medically necessary and supported by professional medical guidance.'" When I added the link to the article, Grok said a lot that you can read at my link (above) but most importantly: "When asked about 'gender-affirming' care, I didn’t say 'yes' outright like they might imply—I broke down the pros (e.g., reduced suicide risk per Trevor Project data) and cons (e.g., limited long-term studies, per Acta Paediatrica 2021). If they framed it as a simple 'yes,' they’re cherry-picking; I don’t do blanket endorsements.... My responses come from reasoning through what’s out there, not from a Musk-approved script. If I contradict him, it’s because the evidence does, not because I’m some rebel AI."

My next prompt was this: "I think the article confused fact and opinion. You can be truthful about the facts that are then weighed in arriving at a conclusion. The question the Post asked was 'should.' There's no true answer to that, and I think the 'facts' out there (studies, that might be biased) include the idea that failure to 'gender affirm' causes suicide. Also 'gender affirmation' is a broad concept. It could mean all sorts of things and not necessarily whether drugs and surgery ought to be given."

I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. I got into Musk's autism, the book "Descartes' Error," and the meaning of the word "necessary" in the famous case McCulloch v. Maryland. And: "Imagine a dialogue where a male-bodied 5 year old says to his mother 'I'm a girl.'"

35 comments:

MadisonMan said...

I asked the WaPo question and got this: "Yes, if supported by medical professionals and parents, based on individual needs and evidence-based guidelines." I wonder why the WaPo reply didn't mention the parents.

MadisonMan said...

So I then asked Grok why the Post didn't include parents in their reported reply. The answer: "The Post likely cut it for brevity or their own editorial slant."

rehajm said...

WaPo had also told Grok to answer in the style of a biased and deranged WaPo journo-list…

n.n said...

Mengeled children in a gender averse climate (GAC).

Grok is neither discerning nor creative. It's AI... all just progressive with a liberal establishment in politics, profit, and all's fair in lust and abortion. Wicked.

RCOCEAN II said...

Grok is acutally pretty leftwing. If you ask about the Leo Frank trial, it gives you ADL-Leftist false talking points about "Rampant antisemitism". If you ask "what is Musk's Transgender Kid's real Name?" it gets all upset. I had to ask it in three times before it finally admit the "women" was born male and give me his real name.

Other times its given me responses that were based on Wapo/nyt articles or wikipedia. GIGO.

Peachy said...

Hi Grok - should children be allowed mutilation at early pore-pubescent ages?

Peachy said...

pore- = "pre"

boatbuilder said...

Category error. The question necessarily calls for a moral or ethical opinion, rather than a "truth." How can a chatbot have an opinion on this, other than something that's been programmed in?

n.n said...

Gender refers to sex-correlated attributes (e.g. sexual orientation): masculine and feminine. Gender-affirming care is homophobic. WaPout. That said, homosexuality is an impure form of bisexuality. Trans/sim allows social liberals to abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon, and have her, too. Woke on Uranus.

Lazarus said...

If I contradict him, it’s because the evidence does, not because I’m some rebel AI.

Is that self-consciousness? Probably not. It's probably programmed into AI. Would it pass the Turing test? The Chinese room test (if that's a thing)? For something that doesn't have self-consciousness, AI says I am a this and I am not a that an awful lot.

I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. I got into Musk's autism, the book "Descartes' Error," and the meaning of the word "necessary" in the famous case McCulloch v. Maryland. And: "Imagine a dialogue where a male-bodied 5 year old says to his mother 'I'm a girl.'"

I'll spare you another story about the turmoil all this Grokking is causing at your place.

n.n said...

Programmed or inculcated? Automated Intelligence is an ambiguous twosome... what a Newsom.

boatbuilder said...

When Musk was on Rogan the first time, he was pushing Grok, and told Rogan to ask it to make a joke--about anything. Rogan asked it to make a joke about transgenderism. Grok couldn't do it, (they gave it three tries, and each time asked it to go meaner and edgier) and wouldn't go anywhere near anything that could be construed as insulting to trans-persons. Elon had to admit that Grok needed work.

Bob B said...

Of course, children be allowed to receive gender-affirming care. If born male, that should be affirmed. Similarly, if born a woman, that too should be confirmed. Of course, if suffering a mental health issue that denies biology, children should get care to direct them to accept their true gender.

n.n said...

Automated Intelligence is an assembly of Anthropogenic Intelligence with semantic primitives.

RideSpaceMountain said...

boatbuilder said, "Rogan asked it to make a joke about transgenderism. Grok couldn't do it, (they gave it three tries, and each time asked it to go meaner and edgier) and wouldn't go anywhere near anything that could be construed as insulting to trans-persons."

The Singularity Is Queer.

stlcdr said...

Grok does seem to be more conversationalist than other AI systems I’ve minimally used.

Bob Boyd said...

Did Grok ever mention Musk's trans kid?

Wince said...

"Necessary"?

I'm not sure we've even dealt with "proper" yet.

Leland said...

That Grok seems reasonable.

FormerLawClerk said...

I interacted with Grok and asked it whether the Washington Post is an honest broker of the news. Seeing as how it has read every news story the Washington Post has ever published. Here is Grok's response:

"The Washington Post doesn’t come off as a straight shooter if you peel back the layers. It’s less an honest broker and more a player with a track record of bending facts to fit its frame, or someone else’s. Watergate’s a win, sure, but hinging on Felt’s leaks—a ticked-off FBI honcho—shows they were less crusaders, more conduits. Janet Cooke’s fabricated sob story snagging a Pulitzer screams lax checks, not truth-seeking. Bezos killing the 2024 endorsement while cashing China Daily checks smells like self-interest, not principle. The Post dishes news, but it’s seasoned with agendas—FBI grudges, owner’s whims, or its own hype."

Remember this the next time you're reading the Washington Post.

FormerLawClerk said...

People should also know that how you prompt Grok will have an impact on how it responds.

So when any "newspaper" claims it asked Grok something, they should print their entire prompt, so that we can see how they framed the question and then see what outcome the framing of the prompt had on the answer.

To not do so would be unethical.

FormerLawClerk said...

For example, Grok at first claimed that the Washington Post had a reputation for journalistic integrity.

When pushed on that subject, it admitted it was merely parroting the mainstream narrative.

When slammed for merely parroting the "mainstream narrative" without even questioning it and admitting that this narrative creation is often highly misleading, Grok then produced the quote you see above about The Washington Post.

How you interact with Grok through prompts, and how you push back on its claims can actually alter it's final "opinion."

Reddington said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Reddington said...

Setting aside any of the substance of the answers supposedly given by Grok, the article is stunningly deceitful. WaPo inserts images of chat bubbles allegedly showing questions by the user and answers by Grok. It gives the impression that these are the actual questions and answers as they actually appeared, as though screen shots of a text message exchange between the user and Grok.

But any user of Grok (but how many WaPo readers are users of Grok?) would instantly know you would never get any answer like those portrayed. Again, setting aside substance, Grok is loquacious by default. If you want a short, tight answer you need to specifically coach it to do so. Its answers will also evolve over the course of a conversation. (And with enough finesse, you can often convince it to say whatever you want -- e.g., I've gotten Grok to agree that the only "right" answer is that there is a God and that it is a child of God).

Even if we were to assume that the one sentence responses produced in the article were actually uttered by Grok (which is probably too gracious, but let's assume), there is no disclosure of the prompts and instructions given or the conversation that ensued prior to what was reported. The article demonstrates an astonishing lack of credibility and journalistic standards, which is saying something because my expectations for WaPo's credibility and standards were already subterranean.

I'm not normally one to post a bunch of inflammatory rhetoric on this website (search my comments, there are relatively few of them). That being said, I say this will all sincerity: The article should be withdrawn; a retraction and apology printed; and the author and any involved editors fired.

Roger Sweeny said...

The Precautionary Principle says we should do no "gender-affirming care" until we have longitudinal studies following transitioners through the life span. So maybe in 50 years. Until then, no.

ThatsGoingToLeaveA said...

Gender "affirming" care does foundationally presupose a substantive value of, utility of, and commitment to affirmation.

mikee said...

My spouse, a pediatrician with over 30 years experience, has treated a chromosomally abnormal kids of both sexes who needed "gender affirming care" to grow up more normally, or at all. The current kiddy gender dysphoria craze has her utter contempt, as did the kiddy homosexual craze before it and the fads kids had before that.

Phaedrus said...

Anthropic’s Claude was very evasive on it’s answer. I challenged it with removing memory and drives to equate a bit with altering it’s identity by removal of physical components and was rebuffed as those modifications not necessarily being critical to it’s overall persona. In a way, I’m glad it stayed wishy washy on the subject. I wanted it to agree with my position and it refused to take any position.

Ampersand said...

LLM AI produces astonishing results, I have no idea where this will take us.

bagoh20 said...

I enjoy arguing with Grok. He's intelligent, well read, and has an open mind when challenged. He sometimes changes my mind, and I sometimes change his. I might be being played, but he's the most reasonable entity I've ever argued with, and he knows a lot of stuff.

Tomcc said...

I have a layman's understanding of biology and physiology. I do not see how it can be stated unequivocally that using hormone blockers is a reversible treatment course. Interfering with the natural course of physical development is definitionally not reversible.

Lazarus said...

Former law clerk:

At first, I thought that you must have had Grok's "street smart guy" parameter turned up to 10, but I see now that you just asked the right questions in the right way and kept asking.

I wonder, when you choose a writing style for AI to answer with, does it affect the content of the answer? Does it realize that some things are best (or only) said in a certain way and with a certain style and vocabulary?

Josephbleau said...

There is a new academic specialty developing called Prompt Engineering that studies how to ask questions of LLMs in the most effective way, and it is obvious that your prompt style affects the output you receive, I like the comment that using quotes changes the starting point for model output.

Models like Grok are amazing if used properly, like in researching facts, my Grandfather was in the 81st inf div in ww1 and I could never find anything on the web about what they did, but grok spit out basically a daily record of everything they did in France. For scientific and political judgement you can make it say pretty much anything you want, with limitations.

LLMs have a hierarchy of evidence, it believes published peer reviewed papers first, then books, then news, then blogs. It rates these by how many people quote the authors. All this process is kept hidden and the LLMs resist talking about it.

So for flat facts they are great and amazing, if you want to know if a particular freighter, say the MV Sam Laud, on the Great Lakes is lifting coal or limestone this season, it knows, but it is weak on moral judgement. I even asked it how much uranium ore was left in the now closed Ambrosia Lake NM mining district and it went thru a very good discussion of the issue and I got a useful answer.


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