February 11, 2025

"What’s unspoken in Vance’s tweet is the well-established power of courts to police the limits of that discretion, i.e., to decide which exercises of power by the executive branch are, in fact, 'legitimate.'"

"Thus, there are examples of courts interfering in military operations—granting habeas petitions to individuals in military custody; blocking military commission prosecutions; and even, during the Biden administration, blocking the military’s COVID vaccination mandate as applied to certain active-duty troops. There’s even a single example of a federal judge blocking an active military operation—Judge Judd’s July 1973 injunction against President Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia.... That ruling might have been wrong; it certainly wasn’t 'illegal.'... calling a judicial decision 'illegal' certainly sounds like a basis for refusing to abide by it—especially if one believes... that such rulings are 'a violation of the separation of powers.' The proper remedy, of course, is to appeal a decision you believe is wrong. And if the Supreme Court, the federal court of last resort, reaches the 'wrong' decision, there are legal ways to seek to overturn it; refusing to follow it isn’t one of them. But the reality is that there is no history or tradition in this country of presidents ignoring judicial rulings on the ground that they are 'illegal.'..."

Writes lawprof Steve Vladek in "What Vice President Vance Did—and Didn't—Say About Judicial Power" (Substack).

Here's the JD Vance tweet under discussion:
If a judge tried to tell a general how to conduct a military operation, that would be illegal.

If a judge tried to command the attorney general in how to use her discretion as a prosecutor, that's also illegal.

Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power.

105 comments:

The Vault Dweller said...

It is the emphatic duty of all citizens to say what is illegal.

Steve said...

A big problem with these TRO's which are typically granted based on the information provided by one side is that the injunction bonds are either ignored or set at a laughably low rate. The Musk TRO included a $10K bond while spending is billions a day. In NY Trump was expected to post a ~$400M bond just to appeal. Make the injunction bonds commensurate with the risk to the people (government) and most of this will go away.

john mosby said...

Reposting from last night's cafe as it's on point here:

Actual legal question here:

Could Congress pass, and Trump sign, jurisdiction-stripping legislation making presidential NON-spending non-reviewable?

Eg “no federal court may rule on the failure of the president to spend monies appropriated by the Congress, and no federal court may review any rulings of any court on such matters.”

JSM

Gusty Winds said...

We are living under liberal judicial tyranny as an entire nation and in the State of Wisconsin. Shopping around for a corrupt, sympathetic judge is not "democracy." These activist judges are crooks.

Reddington said...

Why is any district court in New York or Rhode Island issuing an injunction that applies nationwide?

Kevin said...

That ruling might have been wrong; it certainly wasn’t 'illegal.'

Perhaps the correct term is illegitimate, but the culture of the country is based on illegal/immoral and Vance communicates with it as such.

Gusty Winds said...

Why should some shit lib federal judge be able to decide that the overhead charge on NIH payments remain at 60% rather than the Executive Brach being allowed to lower it to 15%? Musk is right. These liberal judges are protecting the corruption.

ChrisSchuon said...

I don't understand the constitutional theory that executive actions and legislative actions can be illegal, but judicial actions can never be illegal.

James K said...

The writer is taking Vance's "illegal" too literally. Presumably Vance meant "contrary to law," or "unconstitutional." And I suspect there *is* a "history or tradition in this country of presidents ignoring judicial rulings on the ground that they are 'illegal.'..." Isn't that what Andrew Jackson did? Maybe Jackson didn't use the term "illegal," but it was in the spirit of what Vance is saying.

Gusty Winds said...

How do liberals claim to respect the "rule of law" when their appointed judges make up laws as they go, which is not assigned to them anywhere in The Constitution. Especially courts underneath the Supreme Court. When Democrats and libs can't win and election they 1) cheat and 2) revert to corrupt lawfare and corrupt judges.

narciso said...

of course boumedienne and the two previous decision ignored hundred year old precedent, ignoring that citizens and enemy combatants are not the same thing
the decision on covid vaccinations challenged a fraudulent power, that the Dems had conjured up out of whole cloth,
the 2017 order on the immigrant pause rested on statutory language the judges had ignored from the 2016 omnibus and so on,

Eva Marie said...

We need a method by which Congress by supermajority or some combination of Congress and the President can overturn a judicial decision. The courts are left to police themselves and their decision making process.

Lawnerd said...

The appeals will be interesting. At some point a liberal President will need to exert executive power. A thoughtful liberal justice will need to weigh the impact of their rulings against such future possibilities. The District Courts can write absurd rulings because they carry little future weight.

Quayle said...

“ That ruling might have been wrong; it certainly wasn’t 'illegal.'

Did you catch this doozy? ‘ The President’s usurpations of power are illegal. The Article III judge’s usurpations of power are just wrong decisions.’

Peachy said...

Ending democrat corruption will not stand!

RCOCEAN II said...

Oh heavens, oh my "Democracy is in danger". Or rather Judicial power is in "danger". And reason the MSM-DNC cares is because its a Republican POTUS. Wasn't Chuck Schumer threatening the SCOTUS a little while back, and trying to pack the court?

I hope Vance/Trump take on the Judiciary and this insane system whereby one of out 900 District Judges gets to block the POTUS from doing almost anything. They have unlimited power. Where is that in the constitution? Its not.

Constitution says that congress may create lower federal courts and decide what their jurisdiction is. The truth: Our elites used (and have used) the Federal Courts to impose their will on the American public and do an end run around the voters.

Taney used to help Slave Power. The Republican judges used it to prevent child labor laws and regulate big business. The Democrat/Uniparty used it to force porn, busing and anti-Christian regulations down the throat of the public.

And now the D's are using it to block Trump.

The Vault Dweller said...

Could Congress pass, and Trump sign, jurisdiction-stripping legislation making presidential NON-spending non-reviewable?

If it couldn't be fully stripped, perhaps it could be taken away from the district court level to avoid the situation of shopping for a judge who will grant a nation-wide injunction.

Drago said...

Lawnerd: "A thoughtful liberal justice...."

LOL

Take a look at the calendar baby. It's 2025. Where do you think you are?

narciso said...

I am reminded, that summers and sachs were the godfathers of the oligarchs through the austerity program they imposed on post soviet Russia, that worked somewhat better in Poland

RCOCEAN II said...

I think is all just talk on the part of Trump and Vance. They will just bluster, and then appeal, and judges will decide whether the other judges can run the Executive branch or not. They love the power.

The Vault Dweller said...

It is also worth noting, the author uses Vance's comment to speculate that the Trump administration won't abide by it even though in it's filing asking the TRO to be lifted the administration stated it was abiding by the court order.

Gusty Winds said...

Why do we even bother voting?

Lawnerd said...

Maybe it’s time for Marbury v. Madison to be overturned or modified.

RCOCEAN II said...

Congress has always had to ability to strip the lower courts of jurisdiction. Its not gone anywhere, because the D's don't want it and the Uniparty Republicans don't want it. The Uniparty R's are really liberal/leftists who've play MAGA/Conservatives at election time.

They may go through a show. R House passes it. Then it goes to the Senate, and whoopsie, it get filibustered. Sorry, R voters we tried (snicker snicker). Gosh darn, that filibuster. (snicker snicker).

You'll notice that when the Uniparty R's want a bill to pass the filibuster gets thrown out the window or it gets attached to some Reconciliation. Its all just a con job.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

narciso: "I am reminded, that summers and sachs were the godfathers of the oligarchs through the austerity program they imposed on post soviet Russia, that worked somewhat better in Poland"

Larry Summers had quite the little relationship with Jeffrey Epstein....and yes, long after the truth about Epstein had already come out. Which is to be expected of course since Epstein gave a nice chunk of cash to Summer's wife's non-profit ($100k+) which involved....poetry.

Context. They were paid, and many still hope continue to be paid, from laundered cash thru the New Soviet Democratical looking glass by fellow corruptocrats. Jamie Raskin is another one.

RCOCEAN II said...

Amazing how dumb Rightwingers are. You say nothing about the judiciary, then when they get stopped by Judges, its "hang those judges" Bluster bluster. "We'll get rid of Marbury v. madison" bluster bluster. LOL!

narciso said...

there are a whole bunch of inconvenient facts, that I find hard to forget, like the exparte merryman and quirin precedents, which roberts and co, blithely ignored,

narciso said...

no, we look to the statutory authority or there of, now progs work backwards they do a thing, and then find the pretext

narciso said...

so if the administrative procedures act, can prevent the nullification of daca, it should apply at all times,

Saint Croix said...

there are examples of courts interfering in military operations

There are also examples of courts interfering in federal elections. For instance, the one we just had.

Gusty Winds said...

RCOCEAN II said... You say nothing about the judiciary, then when they get stopped by Judges, its "hang those judges" Bluster bluster. There is a difference between the equal power of The Supreme Court and the Executive Branch, vs some shit lib Rhode Island Judge who is merely there so the Supreme Court isn't overwhelmed via case load. Of course you miss the main point of the entire argument. I assume its purposefully ignored. SWING AND A MISS!

We have known, and are now realizing further, there are hundreds of politically appointed unelected presidents of the United States wearing black robes, both liberal and conservative.

Peachy said...

You shall not bomb the left's wasteful corruption!

btw- Americans want good schools and fine education - in every corner. It's the corrupt Democrats who want to keep our young people dumb, angry and propagandized.
We spend more money per pupil and our public schools are (mostly) failing our kids.

narciso said...

that injunction about cambodia, is another such artefact, the problem with that intervention is it came late in the game, thanks to prince sihanouk, the one who gave us the khmer rouge, he had allowed the RVA sanctuary in his lands, as the Pathet Lao had done to the North,

Gusty Winds said...

In 2020 our courts system failed to stop, correct, or rectify obvious voter fraud. In 2024, after too big to rig succeeded wiping out fake Trump trials run by corrupt judges, we see corrupt judges protecting theft, money laundering, kick backs and all kinds of crimes. They are in on it and benefit from it.

narciso said...

there is the nub of it, the spending and the criteria around various programs, which the Progs and assorted types, seem to have just occasional qualms about, say the 2002 NIE, well then they insisted on additional safemeasures, the 2001 NCLB and all the slithy toves that arose from it, like Common Core and CRT

narciso said...

Yes indeed they even abetted the proscription of the discussion about the fraud, something they hadn't done in 2000 2004 and 2016,

Sebastian said...

"there are legal ways to seek to overturn it" Namely . . .? SCOTUS aside, who will check and balance lawless partisan judges, and how? And pray tell, what's not "legitimate" about the president carrying our a thorough audit and stopping disbursements not specifically authorized by Congress?

Lawnerd said...

Boy somebody got their panties in a bunch over my joke about Marbury. Cope and dilate baby.

Saint Croix said...

In 2024, after too big to rig succeeded wiping out fake Trump trials run by corrupt judges

The courts are still calling him a felon, which is an ongoing joke and makes a mockery of any criticisms they have of him, legitimate or not. The American people do not believe you! The judiciary has done incredible damage to itself. Why would it remind us of how awful it is by now trying to protect the corrupt money flowing out of USAID?

narciso said...

if you don't know the players, the program they offer seems plausible, of course the prog side of the vaccine mandate were woefully ignorant of the actual science, the ones in the detainee fight dismissed the precedents, almost all challenges to executive power ignore section 2 of the constitution,

The Tangerine Tornado said...

I'm sure all his examples are totally apples to apples. Those Executive authorities he referenced were swept away overnight without a hearing, right? Sweeping nationwide injunctions issued without the defendant having even been heard. I'm sure.

Iman said...

WHAT are they ALL trying to hide?

narciso said...

bribes subterfuge and skulduggery,

Iman said...

And now we’ve got Nancy Mace threatening to rain Hell on 4 alleged male jackals…

robother said...

All but one of the court rulings cited did not deal with "military operations," but with matters peripheral to military action. And that one (the TRO against the Nixon bombing campaign), the professor concedes was wrong.

Mark said...

J.D. Vance might benefit from a visit to Nuremberg. Maybe read up on military leaders like Wilhelm Keitel, Alfred Jodl, Erich Raeder, Karl Dönitz, and other members of the German High Command. And then tell us about whether judges have authority over generals.

narciso said...

now it just so happens the architect of the Foreign Aid law, that governs AID is the same segregationist that gave us the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which he subsequently challenged because he had been misinformed, how many other pieces of legislation are so bereft of reasoning,

doctrev said...

I am so happy. Not because the agenda is being delayed, but because the ability of low-rent Obamajudges to dictate the national agenda must be curtailed. And the problem for the Supreme Court is even more stark: if they insist that every normal action of the Presidency has to be run through years of lawfare first, they're really tempting President Trump to reverse Marbury vs. Madison- at gunpoint.

There would never have been broad support for that in the first Trump term, but you'll see the MAGA base doing the Mario with judges if every halfwit with a gavel can delay Congress. What did you all think would happen?

doctrev said...

I'll call that bet: read up about Roland Freisler to see how armed generals can decisively veto a judicial system.

Lazarus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lazarus said...

It seems like the argument is about semantics, but then a lot of legal arguments may be about semantics. Vance's tweet seems basically correct as far as it goes, but one has to find a word that is more appropriate than "legal" to complete the sentences. "Legitimate"? "Permissible"? "Binding"? "Appropriate"? "Constitutional" might be a very good fit for what Vance is trying to say.

The other thing at issue is the timeline. Judges have ample opportunities to act against rogue prosecutors once cases are brought to trial. Can they exercise "prior restraint"? That does sound like it could violate the constitutional separation of powers.

Lazarus said...

I wonder if Marbury's family went to the trouble of having him stuffed like Jeremy Bentham, so that if the judgment in his case is overturned, he can finally assume the judgeship he was promised. The federal bench could use a man like him, and if nothing else, his mummy could probably sit on a bench well enough.

gilbar said...

let's play, What Would A Democrat SAY??
"John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it"

Iman said...

“J.D. Vance might benefit from a visit to Nuremberg.”

And you’d benefit from a visit to a proctologist, who may be able to help you extract your cranium from your stanky nether region.

narciso said...

Vance was exactly on point, thats why vladeck cries squirrel, I've pointed out the faulty foundation of most the premises that he argues, except the vaccine mandate he was in favor of,

the boumedienne precedent, was the one utilized in the release of a dozen AQ top operatives, so the past is never truly past,

Howard said...

Didn't the Supreme Court grant itself powers of review that is not enumerated in the constitution.

Leland said...

When should we note the previous administration threatening to pack the Supreme Court?
Here is Vox, complaining about, well just read the title “The Supreme Court put itself in charge of the executive branch”: https://www.vox.com/scotus/23791610/supreme-court-major-questions-doctrine-nebraska-biden-student-loans-gorsuch-barrett

For those that feel inclined to ask, what is the difference? Biden wanted to spend money not appropriated by Congress or mandate everyone take an emergency vaccine. Trump wants to control discretionary spending rather than have executive branch bureaucrats control that spending.

rehajm said...

Its abuse of the justice system unlike anything previously accepted. Political propaganda disguised as scholarly examination doesn’t change that…

…if you want non legal types to find you credible you shouldn’t want to die on a hill of government corruption…

Lazarus said...

Nuremberg, apart from being an international tribunal with its own rules, was after the fact -- after crimes had been committed. Unfortunately, no judge was brave enough to take action against the Wehrmacht when the atrocities were being committed (it wouldn't have done much good in a dictatorship), but how do war crimes and crimes against humanity compare with the issues before the courts right now? There's not much in common.

Rocco said...

Mark said...
J.D. Vance might benefit from a visit to Nuremberg.

Mighty far to go to just get some good bratwuerst. Who do you think he is, Harrison Ford flying up the coast for a cheeseburger? When home in Cincinnati, he’s prolly not that far from a Jungle Jim’s.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Obviously, given the shear volume of these crazy District Judge injunctions, Trump has once again baited his opponents (unlike Democrats I cannot call opposing political actors "enemies" so casually) into overreacting to the max. There had been some discussion of CJ Roberts' wimpiness and anti-Trump animus that has informed some of his weirder SCOTUS rulings (like him + the 4 libs).

Now we are reaching the level of absurdity and as discussed yesterday, Trump is saying he is complying for now and there's no evidence he is not, so that as they pile up and start contradicting each other the TROs are becoming Roberts' problem. Justice Thomas has already introduced to SCOTUS the proposition they will need to reign in these District Judges from issuing nationwide TROs. And as they appear to issue more preemptively the intrusion on the Executive Branch becomes plainer.

Roberts will have to act and act decisively. And he won't have any Trump disobedience of lower courts to trigger his hissy fit side. He will have to address the merits and the order will be binding and Progressives will lose. They will no longer have these local judges to do nationwide TROs to oppose the President.

jim said...

What will you "conservatives" say when Trump defies the courts? Does it depend on the issue?

Gusty Winds said...

Cops show up while your house it is being robbed, and they stop it. Firefighters show up and put out the fire. Liberal judges show up while the American taxpayer are being robbed blind and the country is burning down via fraudulent spending and they say, "we're gonna let this continue." That's what we call a justice system??

Unknown said...

Says ChatGP: "The U.S. Supreme Court is the only court that has the authority to hear cases where one state brings legal action against another state. This jurisdiction is granted by Article III, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, which provides the Supreme Court with original jurisdiction in cases involving disputes between states." How then does a state that files action against the President not go to the Supremes? Or alternately, could another state file an injunction against a lawsuit filed against the Pres based on the fact that the suit affects said state to force the matter upward?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

To highlight Leland:

Biden wanted to spend money not appropriated by Congress or mandate everyone take an emergency vaccine
vs
Trump wants to control discretionary spending rather than have executive branch bureaucrats control that spending

This is exactly the dilemma Leftists have created for themselves and their situational ethics are catching up with them.

Gusty Winds said...

Jim asked - What will you "conservatives" say when Trump defies the courts? Does it depend on the issue? Go for it! Time to challenge the entire corrupt system. We have one chance and a team of competent people now willing to do it. Now is the time. These district judges are challenging the will of 74 plus million voters. Bring back the tar and feathers.

Yancey Ward said...

"J.D. Vance might benefit from a visit to Nuremberg. Maybe read up on military leaders like Wilhelm Keitel, Alfred Jodl, Erich Raeder, Karl Dönitz, and other members of the German High Command. And then tell us about whether judges have authority over generals."

A terribly inapt analogy, Mark, at least for the point you are striving to make. It wasn't the judges' inherent power over the defendants- it was the power of the allies' military governance. In short, none of those were ever real trials- the outcomes were foreordained. The judges in the Nuremberg trials had no power at all- the trials were simply a facade to put legal lipstick on what the generals and the various political leaders were going to do anyway.

Unknown said...

Assumes state Atty generals involved; if not, get a state actor to file action then cross swords.

Meade said...

“What will you "conservatives" say when Trump defies the courts? Does it depend on the issue?“

Probably the same thing we said when Biden defied the courts. Why, what did you say?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Why ponder hypotheticals, Jim?

What are you leftists going to do if Trump continues to comply with the orders as he has so far?

Yancey Ward said...

If SCOTUS refuses to hear these cases within the next month then we will know the system itself is too corrupt to reform itself or to allow itself to be reformed.

I will lay this marker down right here- even if Congress passes legislation signed by the President enacting everything DOGE is doing, there will be 100+ district judges and at least 3 appellate benches that will issue injunctions against the legislation. While Congress can rein in the courts using the impeachment power, the super-majority requirement is unwieldly- as a practical matter, only SCOTUS can rein in these ridiculous judges.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Here's some more assistance for our slower and left leaning (BIRM) fellow commenters:

In fact, these TROs are rolling off Trump's back like water off a duck, because he has the people in place ALREADY to effect changes. The Media and the Judges seem to think Musk is in there doing it all. But the DOGE teams are made up of career employees for the most part (HR and IT), bureaucrats who are doing what the new boss says to do, and many of them are motivated by the animus they have towards the political appointees who used to boss them around and make them do stupid shit. They DON'T have loyalty to the Democrat Socialists of DC like the old team.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

It'll be heard within the week, Yancy.

tommyesq said...

the reality is that there is no history or tradition in this country of presidents ignoring judicial rulings on the ground that they are 'illegal.'...

Didn't Biden ignore judicial rulings related to student loan forgiveness on several occasions?

Gusty Winds said...

Currently on X - "Federal Judge Amy Berman Jackson has just blocked President Trump from firing U.S. Special Counsel Hampton Dellinger."

This is just stupid and corrupt. Ignore the orders. They can refer this bullshit to the Justice Department and Pam Bondi can choose not to prosecute. It's time to challenge the entire corrupt system.

TreeJoe said...

If a Judge can make any ruling they want, and it's considered legitimate until or unless the executive appeals it and wins the appeal, then judicial power is superior to executive power in that it can PAUSE executive action (including military action) which by its nature is time sensitive and involves opportunity cost.

Further, what is the repercussion to the judge

Wince said...

"What’s unspoken in Vance’s tweet is the well-established power of courts to police the limits of that discretion, i.e., to decide which exercises of power by the executive branch are, in fact, 'legitimate.'"

I'd say the the courts are limited to saying which exercises of power by the executive branch are illegitimate, and explaining why.

Vance did speak to the distinction by using the word "control" rather than "police the limits." A court cannot "control (Vance's actual word) the executive's legitimate power."

Richard Fagin said...

Meade beat me to it. Then again, "that there is no history or tradition in this country of presidents ignoring judicial rulings on the ground that they are 'illegal.'" is a distinction without a difference. The state attorneys general who filed the application for temporary restraining order and their clients had no standing to sue, whether or not you think the grant of the order was "illegal" or something else. The president does not answer to federal courts on matters of public policy, but only as to cases or controversies within the meaning of the Constitution. Much as I hated Biden giving money away contrary to the plain language of loan agreements, the remedy was and is political. He paid the price.

Gusty Winds said...

Reposted by Musk on X - Judge John McConnell, the federal judge from Rhode Island who ordered the Trump admin and DOGE to unfreeze billions of dollars in federal grants has a daughter who currently works for the US Department of Education as a senior policy advisor and was appointed by @JoeBiden on Feb 14, 2022, which is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST since Trump and DOGE are planning to defund the Department of Education

Yup. They are all in on the theft. Even the judges.

Jupiter said...

Steve Vladek's dog bowl is located at Georgetown Law School, where it is cleaned and refilled regularly.

Gusty Winds said...

So Trump and the American people are supposed to obey these corrupt judges as if we are part of some Milgram Experiment? We're just supposed to turn up the amps and torture everyone because some shit lib judge told us to and because he wants to protect his daughters Dept of Education income? That's freedom and democracy? Bullshit.

tommyesq said...

Legal question - why does the Southern District of New York have jurisdiction over the inner workings of the U.S. Treasury, which is entirely located outside of New York?

wildswan said...

But the reality is that there is no history or tradition in this country of presidents ignoring judicial rulings on the ground that they are 'illegal.'..."

I wonder how he would characterize Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation in relation to the Dred Scott decision?
Trump swore to faithfully execute the law and the theft going on is breaking the budget and bankrupting the nation and is illegal. How can Trump faithfully execute the law when a judge says Trump has no right to know the evidence on how or whether the law is being obeyed by his agents in the Civil Service.?

jim said...

"What are you leftists going to do if Trump continues to comply with the orders as he has so far?"

Fine, but his dogs are setting up a future of ignored and defied rulings. We'll see what the supremes say, and where it goes from there.

BTW, not a leftist by your definition. Marxist maybe, but only technically.

Paddy O said...

"That ruling might have been wrong; it certainly wasn’t 'illegal.'."

Who judges the judges?

Seems like if a legal order is wrong, then it's the opposite of legal. What's a word for that?

jim said...

I have no argument following the money. I do have an argument with shutting down oversight of financial cons (of which trump just pulled off a big one!)

Aggie said...

So a law professor is asserting the supremacy of the Rule of Law over political will, constitutional order, and the national vote. But the premise of the Rule of Law only works if the law is understood to be fair to all. One side has become committed to using the law's slow progress and pace to its advantage, to put a stop to things it doesn't like.

The only real answer to preserve the sanctity of the Rule of Law is to prioritize such cases so that they are swiftly resolved and cannot be delayed. Why isn't that happening? A month, or even a week, is too long.

Leland said...

Trump complying with the Judges just puts responsibility for the wasteful spending on the judges and the AG’s that brought the case. An audits going to happen. About the only way to stop it would be to destroy the evidence, which would be a crime itself. The question is how much more blame do Democrats want?

Paddy O said...

"I wonder how he would characterize Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation in relation to the Dred Scott decision?"

This isn't too hard, since Lincoln only freed the slaves in those areas at war with the USA. It was a military declaration to give his military commanders guidance on what to do with the slaves in areas that were captured by the US forces. They were free.

To free all the slaves everywhere (in the border states esp that didn't join the CSA) there needed to be a constitutional amendment.

Lincoln very clearly had in mind to end slavery, and the rebellion gave him the very opportunity he needed to do that. He likely couldn't have done much had the South not seceded.

People argue that Lincoln didn't want to end slavery, not least because he said his purpose was to preserve the union only, but it's clear from his whole life and family history that he had abolitionist intent clothed in a pragmatic strategy.

Paddy O said...

I do think the legal issues here are really interesting and point to ways in which custom and propriety in the past, leading to self restraint, didn't address times when there would be obviously partisan manipulation of our judiciary.

Having lost the presidency and Congress, it seems the Left is deploying the judiciary in ways that it's not really designed for and in doing this will likely result in more formal limitations placed on it.

These are political questions. But people want to assert their political perspectives on others and use whatever means they can to do so.

Robert Cook said...

"Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power."

Aye, there's the rub. The judges may discuss (and possibly rule on) the nature and/or limits of the executive's legitimate power. It is not boundless. The president is in no kind a king, and he is bound by the law and by the Constitution, as we all are. He is of equal power with the Supreme Court and Congress, not greater power. Each branch shares equal power.

James K said...

The president is in no kind a king, and he is bound by the law and by the Constitution, as we all are.

As are judges, at least they used to be. And yes, the president is not a king, but he is king of the executive branch.

boatbuilder said...

And if the Supreme Court, the federal court of last resort, reaches the 'wrong' decision, there are legal ways to seek to overturn it;...

There are? Legislative, maybe. But this is news to me.

Also--does the good professor mention that Biden simply ignored both the Supreme Court and Congress on his student loan EO?

Kakistocracy said...

Interesting that the Reactionaries put so much effort into capturing the courts over the decades and now they are letting the Authoritarians totally disregard the courts. The Authoritarians are saying that they don't really need the Federalist Society anymore! The Authoritarians used the money of the Reactionaries to gain power but now they use the emotions of the Mob to project power and legitimizing support.

The Authoritarians always stay on the Commanding Heights by playing the Reactionaries off against the Mob.

The Reactionaries had been setting Wealth beyond the reach of the People through the courts decision by decision over the decades, but now Wealth only has its privileges if it pays fealty to the Authoritarians. Wealth's great protector -- the courts -- is being disregarded.

May not the Authoritarians to stay in power in the future -- when things inevitably get tough and the going hard -- start to feed Wealth to the Mob? Regime preservation, not wealth expansion, becomes the sole goal.

Wealth will no longer be a protector of wealth. Only being in the Inner Circle will be a protector. See Russia and the oligarchic entourage. Complete submission will be required. And the Wealthy thought only the People's freedom was being fed into the wood chipper!

If you are not within touching distance of the throne, you are not in the Inner Circle. Proximity is the new meta metric.

Just where is your seat in the dining room at Mar-a-Lago?

boatbuilder said...

I suggest that a Trump-friendly state or states--say, Texas and Florida--petition a friendly District Court judge for a "nationwide" ruling that the interests of the states in limiting spending and having federal operations remain solvent (in order to continue to support benefits provided to the states) require that the President be permitted to audit and regulate spending within the agencies under his control, and accordingly injunctive relief barring other states from interfering with that power is in order.
Then the Supremes would (at least in theory) be forced to take up the issue of whether District Court judges may issue nationwide injunctions.

n.n said...

The House sets the budget. Is the Executive compelled to disburse all the funds to meet specific objectives? What happens when the Executive is running a deficit, once, twice, more? Does the Executive have auditing authority and a fiduciary obligation to the People and our [unPlanned] Posterity to sustain a viable Republic? The kleptocracy is without joy and has brayed abortive intent. We live in interesting times.

Rabel said...

tommyesq said...

"Legal question - why does the Southern District of New York have jurisdiction over the inner workings of the U.S. Treasury, which is entirely located outside of New York?"

Good question. It looks to me like they could have filed in a Federal District Court in any of the states whose AG was listed as plaintiffs.

"(1) In general.—
A civil action in which a defendant is an officer or employee of the United States or any agency thereof acting in his official capacity or under color of legal authority, or an agency of the United States, or the United States, may, except as otherwise provided by law, be brought in any judicial district in which ... or (C) the plaintiff resides if no real property is involved in the action."

hombre said...

Remember A. Lincoln? If he had adjusted to judicial excesses, there would have been no Emancipation Proclamation. Judicial arrogance and Democrat stupidity obscure their understanding that Deep State cleanout likely extends to the judiciary. Vance has warned them. Biden and Obama had a history of ignoring court orders. Trump may put the icing on the cake.

Peachy said...

uh oh:
X
"A Yale law professor says JD Vance is right: the federal judge who blocked DOGE from exposing wasteful spending by the Treasury Department violated the Constitution."

Rusty said...

Mark and Yancy. By the time the Nuremberg trials started all officers had been stripped of rank.

Cook bleated, " He is of equal power with the Supreme Court and Congress, not greater power. Each branch shares equal power."
Exactly so why are lesser courts flexing instead of the supremes.

jim said...

Isn't supreme court inevitable?

Peachy said...

via Harry Bolz:
"The Biden Administration should ignore the court" - AOC, 2023

ChrisSchuon said...

Leland -

We are well past caring about whether R's or D's will "take the blame" for out of control spending. The D's don't care, because in the media, the blame will *always* be placed on the R's. We just have to get the spending under control and stop shoveling money into programs or organizations that are causing actual harm to the country.

Iman said...

“Just where is your seat in the dining room at Mar-a-Lago?”

Go wolf down some kak, Kak. We’ve had enough of your bullschiff.

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