A classic saga of male rage and refusal to accept defeat — that amused me. The boundaries of the manosphere are vast.
They say don't judge a book by its cover, but apparently it's fine to judge a person by the visible cover of any book they happen to be carrying. Remember back in May 2008 when candidate Barack Obama was photographed carrying "The Post-American World" by Fareed Zakaria? The NYT had just reviewed the book and said:
Zakaria’s is not another exercise in declinism. His point is not the demise of Gulliver, but the "rise of the rest.”... The real problem, Zakaria argues, is the rise of China.... Authoritarian modernization just hums along. The Party’s message reads "Enrich yourselves, but leave the driving to us,” and most of 1.3 billion Chinese seem happy to comply — and to consume. With power safely lodged in the Politburo, China does not conform to the historical pattern of "first rich, then rowdy,” which led to Tokyo’s and Berlin’s imperialist careers.....
How did we read his reading?
Posts
74 comments:
Wow, society really doesn't allow women of color to be vulnerable at work.
Good lord, these people are beyond parody.
"A classic saga of male rage and refusal to accept defeat"
Way to tell me you don't understand The Iliad without telling me that you don't understand The Iliad.
So recently an animated musical called, "EPIC: The Musical" has been making the rounds on various platforms. It is about The Odyssey and the tail-end of the Iliad. I wonder if that is linked to her reading choice.
"Authoritarian modernization just hums along. The Party’s message reads 'Enrich yourselves, but leave the driving to us,' and most of 1.3 billion Chinese seem happy to comply — and to consume. With power safely lodged in the Politburo"
Hmm, sounds like Marc Andreesen had something to say along these lines on Joe Rogan some months ago. Imagine that!
Lol.
""She was spotted carrying books including The Iliad, a classic saga of male rage and refusal to accept defeat, on the campaign trail."
"on the campaign trail" is a misplaced modifier. I guess a war is a "campaign" but that's not what the writer meant.
she was spotted!
Not enough FU's for the corrupt Soviet left machine.
"Refusal to accept defeat" is an interesting choice of phrasing from the side that just lost a national election and is vowing to resist.
"I wonder if that is linked to her reading choice."
I bet it was about the much discussed new translation. See https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/1b1lwp0/emily_wilsons_new_translation_of_the_iliad_brings/
"Hmm, sounds like Marc Andreesen had something to say along these lines on Joe Rogan some months ago. Imagine that!"
Meade and I were just talking about rewatching that episode. He's really worth listening to.
Just wanted to let everyone know you can get a kindle edition of The Iliad for $0.99 on Amazon.
The media is way too focused on personalities and way too little focused on policies and events. I admire Usha from what I can see and what little I know about her, but what difference does it make what she's really like?
Summary, Ds are always good and virtuous. Rs, dark, evil and forever plotting against "the people."
When those who ran Morgan's companies got control, back in March, 1915, of the 25 most influential newspapers, they and the then-deceased Morgan (d. 1913) made one good investment.
https://www.investigativeeconomics.org/p/jp-morgans-efforts-to-push-the-us
She should show up with "Fifty Shades of Grey"
Or, even better, "Story of O"
I'd love to hear the howls.
John Henry
It says "Books including the Iliad"
What other books? Anything interesting to add to my reading list?
What would it cost me to get her to flash my newest book "Secrets of Changeover"? Available via the Portal
John Henry
It was Melania’s. She swapped it for the Mahabharata.
It's an old joke, but worth asking the woke. Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov goes on, almost endlessly, about a debate among three brothers as to whether to kill their father. In a way the father is a pretty nasty person, perhaps unsympathetic, to an unacceptable extent, to the needs of victims. Does the author intend to justify the murder of parents if they are, you know, really yucky? Should the book be banned for its blatant acceptance of violence as a solution to one's personal problems? Violence by white men?
Begley, maybe you can get her the script of Frankenstein Part II!
JSM
America is so horrible. Amazing everyone wants in.
We cannot hate the democraxtic-Soviet media hard enough.
Let's just zoom in on this part of that humorous sentence: "rage and refusal to accept defeat." That perfectly describes the democrats after every election they lose.
Dammit you beat me to it.
So she reads Bronze Age poetry. Does she also read Bronze Age Pervert?
JSM
"A classic saga of male rage"
i always thought it was a classic saga of the pettiness of females..
particularly female goddesses; but also good looking females that like boats
Ah another classic saga of male rage. Three of them.
to be fair.. it WAS a Long war. The trail modifier seems better for the The Odyssey though
My god they're idiots.
I do wonder if it was that dreadful new translation by Emily Wilson, who doesn't seem to actually like Homer, judging from her interviews. Okay, to be fair, I haven't actually read it, but it sounds dreadful. She's the one who started The Odyssey with "Tell me about a complicated man.” Yeesh. If you want modern readability, go with Stanley Lombardo who wrote specifically with modern performance in mind and without the tendentious political axe grinding that Emily Wilson (allegedly) loaded up on in her translation.
It's only considered a classic and the first European novel (once put on paper after a long oral tradition), but in the hands of leftist media, it's a cudgel. If only Achilles' rage had been directed at healthcare CEOs!
Trump is, as is often the case. Here is her Wikipedia biography: Usha Vance. Summa cum Laude (and Phi Beta Kappa) from Yale, with a BA in history. Then a Master of Philosophy in early modern history in 2010 from Claire College, Cambridge, followed by a JD from Yale where she was the executive development editor of the Yale Law Journal, managing editor of the Yale Journal of Law & Technology, and an editor of the Yale Law & Policy Review. following this, she clerked for Judge Amul Thapar, Judge (now Justice) Brett Kavanaugh, and Chief Justice John Roberts. Yes, she clerked for the Chief. Each Justice has 3-4 clerks a year. And clerking for the Chief Justice means that she was arguably one of the 3-4 top recently graduated young lawyers in the country (out of maybe 50k LS grads a year).
And her interest in the Iliad shouldn’t surprise anyone, with a BA in history from Yale and a Masters in Philosophy from Cambridge in early modern history.
The author of this screed is Kase Wickman, who on her website describes herself as having "turned my passion for overthinking into a profession." I give her points for honesty.
Portney's Complaint - A classic tale of Jewish rage and masturbation
War and Peace - A Classic tale of Russian angst and death
Huck Finn - A classic tale of Southern barbarism and water
Pride and prejudice - A classic tale of female obsession and money
Gone with the Wind - A classic tale of Female Vacillation and Mint Juelips.
I don't recommend taking investing advice from Andreesen (A&H funds can't even beat the SP500 over the last 7 years), but his insight on that episode was the missing puzzle piece explaining the "why" of the previous administration's policies for many. It's worth a rerun for everyone.
That an MSM reporter would know about the Illiad is amazing. That she would describe it in such a half-ass ignorant manner, not so much.
Women don't get tragic heroism. The whole "man vs. man" and "man vs. god" genre is lost on them. We have the Iliad & The Odyssey. They have Harry Potter.
BTW I'd be impressed if Mrs. Vance was reading it in the original Greek, like Calvin Coolidge. But I doubt she is.
China hasn't got "Rowdy" because it has no need to. Nuclear weapons no doubt have something to do with it too.
The famous interview when Katie Couric asked Sarah Palin what she'd been reading, and Palin couldn't come up with an answer. Blank slate, which seemed fine to me, rather than conjure up some pretentious list. Bad credit is worse than no credit at all?
I doubt if this was Mrs. Vance's first encounter with the Iliad. It's more likely that she was checking out this new translation.
How did we read his reading?
Leave the driving to us.
- Krumhorn
https://worstkase.com/ she's real, or ai
I defy you to propose any theory of the career of JP Morgan that is not a "conspiracy theory". Extra credit - don't include the word "Rothschild".
certainly not emily wilson's translation
Help me out here. Is "refusal to accept defeat" supposed to be a bad thing?
Agree. Worth listening to - the man who (were it not for Microsoft's borderline or some say blatant antitrust violations) almost singly toppled MS Windows.
But interestingly, he was one person who I listened to at .75x speed, as opposed to 1.25x or 1.5x.
You know I suspect Trump was correct--Usha is probably smarter than her husband, and he's no slouch.
So she's probably re-reading it.
They inserted that silence into the tape by using a clip where she was waiting to be asked something; Katie and her producer bragged about it afterwards. This was the point when Glenn Reynolds started advising anyone going to an interview to bring their own camera. I'm kinda bummed that the false impression has survived so long, but at least you interpreted it kindly. Likely because you are conditioned to NOT trust the media's interpretation.
If you have a Kindle you can carry more books and others can’t see what you are reading. Carrying books seems like a way to send a message.
Zakaria was accurate about PRC in 2008. Then Xi took command in 2012. Could a book about USA in 2012 have predicted Trump?
Mike, Nice was in no way providing a kind interpretation. Nice probably knows that the interview was heavily edited dishonestly on that question to Palin but was simply hoping none of us knew.
Homer was writing in the 8th century B.C., which was well into the Iron Age.
Beat me to it, gilbar.
From NBC.
Her edition of the Greek epic — a celebrated 800-page translation from 2023 by University of Pennsylvania classicist Emily Wilson — has accompanied Vance across the country, briefly visible as she has boarded and exited campaign planes in Pennsylvania, Arizona, Michigan, Colorado and California.
“That's because our now 7-year-old decided in the spring that he was obsessed with mythology,” Vance said in a rare phone interview. “He picked up a child’s version of ‘The Odyssey’ and then ‘The Iliad’ and all these other things and became completely obsessed. So to keep up with him, I decided it was time to pick ‘The Iliad’ up myself.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/usha-vance-reading-list-glimpse-private-figure-campaign-rcna174303
Where is the evidence they inserted silence? Google provides nothing. I'm just curious. BTW, the person who sent Palin out on these extended interviews that were later edited was Nicole Wallace, current Joe Biden supporter, and liberal Democrat.
Thanks Duty.
I have personally read the Aeneid in the original Latin, at least the sentences with constant remainder divided by the size of the Latin class, those being the sentences I was called on to translate. You have some time while the rest of the class is busy to look up words in your sentence and figure out the verbs.
Hassayamper, good point about Homer being in the Iron Age. Still, he was describing events of his distant past, i.e., the Bronze Age. So his work is poetry about the Bronze Age.
JSM
One would think the reading of any great book would make the preposterousness of wokeism clear. When Paris, who is some kind of Asian, grabs Helen, a Queen in a Greek place, and takes her home to Troy, he may not be all that concerned about her consent. Her beauty is more of a consideration, and probably the satisfaction of hurting some Greeks where it hurts. Feminists might think this is an elaborate justification for a kidnapping and rape. But after she is in Troy for a while, she is asked if she would like to go back to the Greeks--especially if her doing so would end this terrible war. She says no: she and Paris are in love. So justice for groups is one thing; justice for individuals is something else. It might be crazy to emphasize only one.
Achilles stops fighting for the Greeks because he thinks he has been slighted. He deserved the top prize after one battle--a beautiful young woman, here we go again--but he is offered something less. The great king wants the girl for himself. In both cases I guess we're supposed to think it's not the sex, it's the honor or dishonor. What finally gets Achilles to strap on the armor again is the death of his boyfriend--the private and personal once again subordinating the "public" or political. He wants to "serve" the Greeks, but perhaps only if he can lead. He wasn't necessarily completely convinced that Helen justified a big war, but if your country calls, you serve; it is what you have grown up to do.
Achilles epitomizes what Aristotle called moral virtue, which certainly doesn't mean a complete lack of intellectual virtue. Odysseus or Ulysses is more known for intellectual virtue. During the war both sides assume that if Achilles fights with the Greeks, they win; if not, they lose. As if he were Mahomes with the Chiefs ("outstanding non-gendered persons"? "humanitarians"? "egalitarians"?) or something. What really wins the war is an ingenious breach of Troy leading to an ambush--the famous wooden horse. The Trojans expect things to be done in a gentlemanly way, and they are truly surprised. The horse is all Odysseus' idea. Is there an ascent from the Iliad, immersed in the details of the war, to the Odyssey which comes later, barely including even flashbacks to the war? More notable or complete intellectual virtue superior to moral virtue even at its best? An anticipation of someone like Socrates? Possibly in a different way the tech nerds of today? So many questions.
It's funny because she chose The Illiad specifically to stop journalists from speculating on hidden meanings.
The Iliad is as much about duty, suffering, male friendship and loss as it is about the demands of war. Do they intentionally pick the stupidest, least literate people for reporters today? It is also about a culture that seems similar yet with alien values, making it a wonderful book to expand young people’s horizons.
Meanwhile, Obama was reading the textual version of John Lennon’s slyly dystopic and fascistic “Imagine” — the perfect send off for Carter. Obama was an avowed Marxist and very self-pleased pseudo-intellectual in college but seemed to do little actual reading.
Mostly true. The Trojan War-- or at least the one (of at least five) that Homer was writing about-- took place shortly before the Late Bronze Age Collapse, as I recall. This would have been in the 13th or early 12th century B.C. and certainly the Mycenaeans and other Greeks were still in the Bronze Age, up until the Doric invasion from the north with iron weapons that overthrew Mycenae.
Iron was being smelted in the Balkans, Caucasus, and perhaps Anatolia and India by then, and it is interesting to speculate whether the Trojans had access to iron weapons.
Homer described weaponry in loving and exhaustive detail, and says that the Trojans did have iron weapons in both the Iliad and the Odyssey. But he was writing at least 400 years after the fact, and may have mentioned them anachronistically due to a lack of knowledge of the details of early metallurgical history.
Dad was certainly an A-Hole, but everybody else in the book ran around with their hair on fire most of the time. He seemed like the only sane one in the bunch.
Dad was certainly an A-Hole, but everybody else in the book ran around with their hair on fire most of the time. He seemed like the only sane one in the bunch.
I love The Iliad. Must be all my male rage.
I'm still processing the idea that Zakaria was right about something...
I've listened to Robert Fagles' translation of the Illiad and enjoyed it a lot.
Lots of translations to choose from: Alexander Pope, Lattimore, Fitzgerald, and Mitchell.
I bet it was about the much discussed new translation.
Oh, I hope she wasn’t reading that trash. Can we tell from the picture? The translator has expressed her, um, disdain for the characters. Doesn’t sound very Homeresque.
But he was writing about the Bronze Age;
"His spear fell from his hand, but his shield and helmet were made fast about his body, and his bronze armor rang about him."
What exactly is the circulation of Vanity Fair (and its demographic)? Why is this Mean Girls Rag linked almost exclusively on TDS news aggregators. Just about every day at Apple News (waste of $12 a month).
I suppose it is arguable that the Iliad is about men's rage, and refusal to accept defeat. But let's not forget what they were fighting about. Or should I say, "who"?
Now compare Usha Vance to Biden's embittered DEi-hire Karine Jean-Pierre.
I think she might have read Tina Trent's comment here, about how the Illiad and Odyssey tell us most of what we need to know about war.
Post a Comment