"... in the fraud case. In an August financial disclosure filed with the Office of Government Ethics, he listed hundreds of bank and investment accounts with a total value of between $252 million and $924 million.... Trump has to keep some cash on hand to operate his properties, such as his golf courses and hotels, as maintenance or investment needs require, according to banking experts. Freeing up hundreds of millions of dollars more would almost certainly require Trump to borrow against or sell some of his real estate.... A surety company might accept Trump’s properties as collateral, but that carries its own risks. Experts in issuing bonds may not be equipped to do their own investigations into Trump’s property values, and they may not know what his assets are really worth...."
From
"Clock is ticking for Trump to post bonds worth half a billion dollars/Experts say a cash crunch in coming weeks could thrust the former president’s business into greater uncertainty than it has seen in decades" (WaPo).
"they may not know what his assets are really worth" — Ironically, that is what the case itself was about.
I wonder if Trump's claim that he has "400-plus" million dollars influenced the judge to come up with $355 million penalty (plus interest) as the penalty in the case.
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45 comments:
This civil and criminal pursuit of Trump is really the most disgraceful episode in American legal history.
Experts in issuing bonds may not be equipped to do their own investigations into Trump’s property values, and they may not know what his assets are really worth...."
Wait until they say the bond was a "sweetheart" deal and is either a bribe or an illegal campaign contribution.
“I wonder if Trump's claim that he has "400-plus" million dollars influenced the judge to come up with $355 million penalty (plus interest) as the penalty in the case.”
Please allow me to allay your confusion: that judge pulled his figure out of his own narrow ass.
That's OK, donors will pay his legal bills.
"They may not know what his assets are really worth" — Ironically, that is what the case itself was about.
Yes, so much irony in the collapse of a democratic republic. No one "knows" exactly until the property actually is sold, then the sales price is the value for that moment. Shortly thereafter, uncertainty prevails again, and only one's best estimates are useful. Oh irony! This is exactly why the case was flawed from the beginning, also it was intended to devalue his properties in the process. If an interested party cannot secure a loan from "a bank that does business in New York" because that would benefit Trump, then his options are narrowed, and economic laws apply: the demand curve cannot be dismissed.
"I wonder if Trump's claim that he has "400-plus" million dollars influenced the judge to come up with $355 million penalty (plus interest) as the penalty in the case."
Well, if you really want to form a nuanced opinion about that, you'll need to look at all the loan-fraud cases that have been tried in front of the Right Honorable Judge Engoron, former taxi driver, and try to determine how often he imposed $455,000.000.00 fines. I imagine the NYT has a couple reporters beating the bushes right now, looking for a Professor of Applied Idiocy at We-Rip-You-Off University, who is plagiarizing such a study even as we speak. Patience.
I don't see how trump have trouble raising the cash if he already has millions in cash, and much more than 400 million in assets. The only question is how much will he have to pay to borrow the 400 million.
I'm still puzzled as to how a judge can declare you must put up a "bail" in order to appeal. Why is that legal? And why is there no dollar limit on the amount? Remember the store that sued Olberlin college. Did Olberin have to put up 100 million in cash in order to appeal? I dunno. You tell me.
Everyone involved in this preposterous political persecution is one of the "domestic enemies" our forefathers warned us about. I can only imagine how they would have dealt with such rank oppression. I hope there is a legal reckoning for it, because any extralegal means of redress would be OK by me too.
I suspect the "Trump Curse" will hit New York very hard, as everyone with any money to invest realizes it could all be stripped away without even a jury trial if a prosecutor and judge conspire to punish those who fail to bend the knee to the Democratic Party.
If this is not "official oppression under color of law", I don't know that such a thing exists. Nothing from the McCarthy era remotely compares to what these enemy scum have done to Trump from Day 1. Words fail to express how much hatred and contempt I have for the Democrats, and how much hardship I am willing to see this country endure to permanently rid ourselves of their fanatic tyranny.
Mark said...
That's OK, donors will pay his legal bills.
2/26/24, 1:59 PM
Unlike the Clintons, and Bidens. Taxpayers pay ...every time.
Low Information Commenter Mark said...
"That's OK, donors will pay his legal bills."
Yeah, Trump will be ok. How about the NY residents losing their jobs as business exit the hostile business environment of NY State?
This is before the ruling was official:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/wall-street-firms-are-leaving-new-york-taking-1-trillion-with-them/ar-AA1fC7d1
But you showed Trump and his silly donors who is boss! Congratulations on your, um, winnings.
Not a single bank or lender was defrauded by Trump.
This creepy ugly WHITE left democratic-Stalinist Judge is an asshole.
Judge Stalin Author Engoron(D)
'I'm still puzzled as to how a judge can declare you must put up a "bail" in order to appeal. Why is that legal?'
Lefties would be screaming if this applied to blacks.
So the fine is not based upon law or precedent but on what the judge thinks the plaintiff's new worth/cash on hand is? What justice is there in that?
"Experts in issuing bonds may not be equipped to do their own investigations into Trump’s property values, and they may not know what his assets are really worth...."
I know of a judge who can provide them with the exact valuations.
The original case suggested a $250M punishment. James upped it to I think $325M in the final weeks of the case. It’s still not clear who is owed the money.
Also, apparently NY law states you have to put up the $ to appeal. That seems unconstitutional to me.
rcocean - It's NY.
Mark - none of your business who helps him - Stalinst.
Mark wrote: “That's OK, donors will pay his legal bills.”
It’s not ok because if Trump pays, he enriches law fare scum. Law fare needs to be starved of cash, not Trump.
Trump should just refuse to pay. Make it hard for them. Let Letitia James try and take his NYC properties as she has threatened.
it is the policy in new york state, however the fact this was a non offense, is the curious bit,
I was briefly involved in one of the most notorious appeal bond situations in US corporate history. Texaco's plight in December 1985 after losing a Texas state court case over its snatching of Getty Oil, which had agreed to be acquired by Penzoil. A Texas jury awarded Penzoil $11 billion including punitives for tortious interference with contract. No way Texaco could get a bond for its appeal. So NY based Texaco got a White Plains federal judge to issue an injunction against collection efforts pending appeal on 14th Amendment due process grounds. The Second Circuit affirmed, but the US Supreme Court vacated the injunction. So Texaco filed for bankruptcy. The judgment was largely affirmed in Texas with reduced punitives. Texaco management would not settle, so Carl Icahn bought a big position in Texaco and forced a settlement for $3 billion. Joe Jamail's contingency fee made him the richest trial lawyer in America until Dickie Scruggs supplanted him from tobacco litigation.
I feel like playing MegaMillions, and winning the big prize, and announcing that I'm giving it to Trump to pay off this fine.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. And this Real Estate case is an injustice.
(p.s.: I doubt the things in the first sentence will happen, but it's something to ponder, of only for the reaction it would cause!)
I'm still puzzled as to how a judge can declare you must put up a "bail" in order to appeal. Why is that legal? And why is there no dollar limit on the amount?
Many states have a rule where you have to post bond before being able to appeal. The general idea is to ensure that you don't spend away money that could have gone to pay damages, and the amount is usually set at the amount of damages awarded, although they can include extra amounts to cover costs and interest during the pendency of the appeal.
The thing with this case is, there is no defendant who got screwed by Trump who now is being compensated for the alleged damages, so there would seem to be no need for an appeal bond. The money, in fact, appears to be a giant windfall for NYC (or NY State, perhaps).
I’m disgusted the big brained former law prof blogger can’t muster disgust. Said not to try to bait, only in disgust…
The money, in fact, appears to be a giant windfall for NYC
The state will get an offset from that windfall with the tax rebates from the new ‘objective’ court approved lower property valuations …and should miss out on the back end if there’s still a reasonable judge on appeal…
It would be hilarious if NY took possession of one of Trump's buildings at u issue in the case and held a public auction to liquidate, only to find willing buyers agree with Trump's valuation.
I would also find it hilarious if the sale price was far closer to the state's valuation.
If a court’s order says that you must pay money damages, and court rules say you must put up a bond on appeal to avoid collection pending appeal, but the court order says you can’t borrow money in the state to put up a bond, doesn’t this start to raise due process questions?
Has anyone looked at his most recent financial statement filed with the FEC. It lists his net worth. If he misrepresented it, it is a felony. It would certainly be something to add to the other 93 or so.
Well, has anyone? What is his net worth?
I'll wait.
John Henry
Seems to me like it's a Bill of Attainder, according to the NY Governor. And in breach of Eighth Amendment, but I'm sure they don't apply if Trump is the defendant.
"The money, in fact, appears to be a giant windfall for NYC (or NY State, perhaps)."
Democrats operate under the assumption that everything belongs to the government and, on occasion, they allow you to use a portion of it as they see fit.
When Trump wins on appeal, who repays the "bail" money?
Trump will have to put up a bond, that's a given if he wants to stay the execution of the judgment. Why that has to be a cash bond instead of a surety bond is another question. If as commented above a Newy York based lender or insurer is not allowed to lend or insure, then this will become a huge matter, one for the federal courts.If ever there was a case for reigning in prosecutorial and judicial immunity this is it.
A law that punishes for frauds where there is no victim, the parties that entered into the contracts both performed their legal contractual obligations and are quite willing to do business with each other again is beyond offensive. Prosecutors who campaigned on punishing an individual who they had no actual evidence of civil nevermind criminal wrongdoing, are not prosecutors but persecutors and thus criminals. The court that went with the persecutors is equally as criminal as the persecutors. They need to all be held personally responsible for their abuse of power and forced to pay the damages from their pockets and fired and disbarred for life and stripped of their pensions. As for the law itself, has it ever been enforced before? If so, in any case that the facts are comparable? If not, then why after all the years why target a man whom they have a personal animus towards? If this travesty is upheld, no victim will be compensated but the grifters will be richly rewarded. And with that, anyone with any money would be wise to leave New York as fast as possible as New York can come after you, no matter how long ago the business transaction will completed. The New York State and City governments aren't governments but shakedown artists and extortionist. What is even more worrisome is if New York gets away with this banditry, is that it sets the example for a number of states to do the same and that in turn will result in other states to null the enforcement in those states. An all-around cluster.
wall-street-firms-are-leaving-new-york-taking-1-trillion-with-them
The rotting apple.
Democrats operate under the assumption that everything belongs to the government
Democratic Socialists (Dezis) complements the far-left Nazi party with inclusive diversity (i.e. color judgment, class bigotry) enhancements, and other transconstitutional emanations.
What if Trump decides not to post bond?
Prima facial evidence of a dupe admitting being in a cult.
Blogger Dave Begley said...
This civil and criminal pursuit of Trump is really the most disgraceful episode in American legal history.
Howard: “Where’s Walden Pond?”
Madge: “Your head’s soaking in it.”
Howard said...
Prima facial evidence of a dupe admitting being in a cult.
Blogger Dave Begley said...
This civil and criminal pursuit of Trump is really the most disgraceful episode in American legal history.
*********
Is cubanbob's analysis above prima facial (sic) evidence he's in a cult as well?
Letitia James, the NY AG, posts the current judgment amount daily on X. As of 2/24, the judgment was $464,805,336.70.
I'm impressed how many ordinary Americans are OK with this. What kind of country do I live in?
WSJ has this proof of disgorgement:
As Donald Trump’s real-estate empire comes under pressure from a $355 million civil-fraud verdict, one of its most recent sales looks particularly well-timed.
The Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C., put up for sale the long-term lease rights for the hotel in the former Old Post Office, likely because he could no longer violate the Emoluments clause to grift more money from the government.
So he sold it in 2022, to Miami-based investor CGI Merchant Group for $375 million (with a big chunk provided by A-Rod) — a price that was tens of millions of dollars more than the other offers.
This month, the new owners defaulted on a $285 million loan related to the property, according to people familiar with the matter. The missed payments on that loan reflect higher interest rates and the above-market price the firm paid the Trumps, industry executives say. Hilton holds the lease and is looking for a new player.
Howard said...
Prima facial evidence of a dupe admitting being in a cult.
Blogger Dave Begley said...
This civil and criminal pursuit of Trump is really the most disgraceful episode in American legal history.
2/26/24, 5:45 PM
Ignorance is bliss Howard, and you are ignorant about this. Dave isn't in the Trump cult (as you Obama cultists call it), he is for Vivek, but Dave is smart enough to see corruption where YOU are blind to it. You idiots calling anybody who sees your corruption cultists is a joke and we are laughing at you, and can't wait until Trump wins to see you cry.
" Ironically, that is what the case itself was about. "
I would only use the term "ironically" if the case were brought in good faith.
"likely because he could no longer violate the Emoluments clause to grift more money from the government."
Do you know what an "emolument" is? It's collecting money for doing your job as a government official. For instance, Hillary Clinton collected hundreds of millions of dollars from people who had business before her as Secretary of State, and the only recompense these "donors" received were meetings with her, and of course the records of these meetings were destroyed by her, in direct violation of Federal law, and since the records were destroyed, it's kind of hard to know what these people got, but we do know that Vladimir Putin got control of North American uranium after giving her hundreds of millions of dollars.
Donald Trump provided his services as an innkeeper to paying customers.
NY AG Letitia James, who ran for office promising to bring down Donald Trump, is now taunting the former president by posting on X each day's additional interest in the massive judgment she won against him. Could be premature, given Trump appeal, but she seems to be enjoying it.
https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1762423902800605280
"NY AG Letitia James, who ran for office promising to bring down Donald Trump, is now taunting the former president by posting on X each day's additional interest in the massive judgment she won against him."
Do they teach that at law schools?
What happens if he doesn't pay?
And why can't such an unreasonable penalty appealled directly to the Supreme Court given its political implications?
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