Said Lauren Kassell, a professor of history of science and medicine at the European University Institute and the University of Cambridge, quoted in "Young people are flocking to astrology. But it comes with risks" (WaPo).
The article quotes a 38-year old actress named Caroline Kingsley, who (like so many other people!) reads her horoscope every day:
“It makes me feel good,” she explained. “It feels more like a space, almost like a journal I don’t have to carry around or write in. Just an internal conversation with myself.” In Kingsley’s eyes, the fact that astrology is not scientifically sound is neither here nor there. “Whether I believe it or not doesn’t matter,” she said. “It’s more fluid than I think most of our culture is built.”
Kingsley was raised Christian and struggled to relate to the religion. Astrology, she said, resonates more. “Astrology gets such a bad rap for being non-sciencey and being fake, but at the end of the day, it’s about looking at the stars in the sky, and in my opinion, that’s less weird than looking at a mysterious book of stories dropped off in the desert,” she said, adding that astrology is generally less prescriptive than religion. “I think that’s the beauty of it,” Kingsley added. “You can use it any way you want to.”
Our lives are filled with non-sciencey things. Attack somebody else's non-sciencey thing and they may turn around and attack yours. Now what?
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57 comments:
"...deeply tied to the skepticism about science and individualistic thinking."
Yes......because everything about me is the same as that other guy with the same birthdate.
Did she think that up all by herself? Isn't that a little..... dangerous? A little......individualistic?
"Uttering idle words from a reprobate mind
Clinging to strange promises, dying on the vine"
They're always after me lucky charms.
"Indian Matchmaking" on Netflix is a great show. The matchmaker regularly uses astronomy readings (and a face reader!) to help determine if it's a good match. What sounds super flighty in America becomes very interesting when part of a cultural tradition.
I learned recently that the Talmud has several references to, and acceptance of, the influence of celestial bodies on human behavior.
Jung had charts done for all his patients. Whether it's "real" or not, it offers a rich system and language to talk about personality.
Science has rarely been 'pure', with a history of incorrect dead ends, political abuses, and pseudoscientific gurus who tend to be discredited after death. Science has often moved backward per a willingness to censor for political goals, for being corrupted by government funding, and for rank sophistry by repackaging simple ideas as new and original.
Astrology and religion and wokeness offer quick and easy universal answers. These are recreated by those seeking comfort and security in each generation, and indistinguishable from bad science.
Individualism? Huh? That's gratuitous propaganda. The history of science is full of isolated outsiders who were right then the establishment was wrong and when it crushed the truth. Individualism has NOTHING to do with either astrology or science, and is just a dig at those who don't conform to the will of Global Team Bully.
Astrology has always been a thing, and historically it's been more prevalent among the wealthy classes. There's a desire to believe that one is not helpless to the uncertainties of life, especially if one is used to power, or the benefits of good fortune. And don't give me the "unscientific" crap. Astrology used to be a side business for astronomers. The scientific community have always been whores to the powerful.
In a way, the modern growth of astrology is a result of the scientism of the past fifty years. Vaguely scientific sounding words and rituals were used to imbue everything with a greater sense of authority. The managerial class became obsessed with measurements, metrics, and quantifying everything, and the result was a pseudoscientific veneer over everything. Policy-makers discuss "evidence-based" approaches while waving the latest studies with questionable methodologies. Businessmen and bankers build ever-increasingly complex financial constructs based on complex models. Bureaucrats tell children to mask up in schools for eight hours a day because some CDC official somewhere suggested it in a white paper. Of course, none of these people had much scientific training or inclination. Instead, they often doubled-down on the words and rituals, even after they were proven ineffective, or outright harmful.
Skepticism about science is one of the most fundamental traits of a properly trained scientist. The "skepticism about science" that causes people to turn away from it stems from the mistaken idea that when scientists are shown to be wrong about something it indicates a failure of the system. Such events are, in fact, the greatest strength of science.
The funny thing about astrology is that it's been pooh-poohed for eons, laughed at by virtually everyone, from our best and brightest to our Democrats. It's been mocked, ridiculed, and has created so many eye rolls that ophthalmologists regularly donate to astrology groups.
Yet, it continues through all the ages. Go into any 'new age' shop and you'll see rows of books on it, schedules of in-house astrologer ready to give you a 'reading'.
I'm telling you, it's a grift just waiting to be tapped into for some of us retired folk.
Astrology is another gateway to the occult. According to Father Vincent Lambert, a Roman Catholic priest and exorcist in Indiana, there is an alarming rise in demonic activity in this country.
“The problem isn’t that the devil has upped his game, but more people are willing to play it,” Father Lampert said. He pointed to rampant pornography, illegal drugs use and the occult. “Where there is demonic activity, there is always an entry point,” he said.
I wouldn’t fool with it.
"It’s more fluid than I think most of our culture is built.” I tried and tried to decipher this word salad but, being a Virgo, I can't make heads or tails of it. This is what I get fro graduating from university before the postmoderns had completely trashed the place.
Used to sell a lot of newspapers
People's opinions regarding astrology provide some real insights about them (far more so than any information related to their birthday). How willing is the individual to indulge in the luxury of false belief? How elaborate the self deception? Does (s)he understand the difference between tropical and sidereal astrology? What are the mechanisms that the person believes to be responsible for astrology's usefulness?
None of us knows enough true things. Believing false things is generally a bad idea, though I have to concede that many priests and intellectuals have made a good living at it, from the sophists onwards to today.
Wasn't DEMOCRAT Eleanor Roosevelt into this occult stuff?
It's not really skepticism about science, it's distrust of scientists.
"Astrology gets such a bad rap for being non-sciencey and being fake, but at the end of the day, it’s about looking at the stars in the sky, …"
Yeah? I bet she can't name one.
I have never seen the Party of Science(tm) take a stand against astrology, crystal healing, tarot reading, essential oils, homeopathy, spirit animals…
Astrology, paganism, voodoo, witchcraft or wicca as today's practitioners call it, are always simmering beneath the surface in society and ready to raise up. There appears to be an innate need for humans to believe in something. So the question society needs to determine is- which something is best to encourage?
For over a billion people their society embraces islam, which ruthlessly enforces the beliefs and doesn't allow competitors. IMHO- not the right way to go.
How did the USA rise rapidly- in historic terms- from being a breakaway colony of the most powerful country in the word to being the most powerful country in the world? By embracing Christianity, all forms, with a civic religion of tolerance and belief in individual freedoms. Which if one generation fails to bring up it's children in their beliefs creates the seeds of collapse. And DemoncRATs are doing their best to bring it about. Hey- You can change your sex if you want to! You're not stuck with what you were born with? Wicca, pagan, or something else? It's not rational, scientific, nor Christian. Funny thing- islamic Iran is a center for sexual reassignment surgery- which doesn't actually change someone's sex- and even forces it unwillingly upon those who deserve it. Deserve it according to islamic belief. https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/02/22/iran-gay-forced-gender-reassignment-surgery-the-sun/
I agree with Sheldon Cooper on this subject.
Years ago, I rejected a guy because he revealed an interest in astrology. I told one and then, separately, another law professor friend this funny story, and both of them told me they believed in astrology.
I've been absorbing that reality for 30+ years.
Benson Bobrick's "The Fated Sky" is a history of Western astrology, and a good read.
The science of astronomy grew out of astrology, much as modern chemistry grew out of alchemy.
"I told one and then, separately, another law professor friend this funny story, and both of them told me they believed in astrology."
Apparently, you don't have to be very smart to be a law professor. (Note: That doesn't mean you can't be smart).
Considering how badly the scientific and medical community failed us during the pandemic, I am just dumbfounded that people would turn instead to astrology. No more chemistry courses at the universities! They’ll teach alchemy instead.
/sarc
I used to read my horoscope every day in the newspaper when I was a teenager. I don't believe for a second that I gave it any credence, but there it was, and I would read it, and promptly forget what it said, but for that that short moment, it had as much value for me as reading about Nancy and Sluggo.
In the '60s, asking 'What's your sign?' was a conversation starter, with potential benefits.
The twilight faith, a secular ethical religion, a liberal ideology.
That said, a butterfly is an egg, is a larva, is a pupa, is an adult, is an insect.
Astrology is another gateway to the occult. According to Father Vincent Lambert, a Roman Catholic priest and exorcist in Indiana, there is an alarming rise in demonic activity in this country.
“The problem isn’t that the devil has upped his game, but more people are willing to play it,” Father Lampert said. He pointed to rampant pornography, illegal drugs use and the occult. “Where there is demonic activity, there is always an entry point,” he said.
I wouldn’t fool with it.
I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that even though astrology is bullshit, it has caused "an alarming rise in demonic activity".
Believing that there is an alarming rise in demonic activity (and the harm done by charlatans driving the demons out) is much worse than believing Mercury affects electronics and contracts.
So astrology is on the rise in an era of narcissism. Who woulda thunk?
Newspaper horoscopes are written to be so vague that they can mean whatever you want, making them both unfalsifiable and generally useless. Psychics and the sort try to probe their marks for personal information, only to reveal this acquired personal information to display their "powers," then provide either vague futures which match the information or tell the mark what they want to hear. If you want to pretend to believe in something without having to make any actual sacrifices, then modern astrology is sufficiently acceptable bull****.
A serious Babylonian astrologer would consider these people blasphemous, not to mention stupid.
'Try not to get too worked up over other people's actions that don't concern you. Recent events may have triggered responses from others that now have a serious effect on you. Take some time to really think about what part you wish to play in this drama. Is it in your best interests to get involved? It's undoubtedly time to distance yourself from the situation'.
That's today's horoscope for Pisces
The rest of you are fucked
I however am a Pisces cusp
Cross your fingers for me
I don't believe in astrology myself but I do think there's a difference between newspaper horoscopes and the kind of thing people serious about astrology do, where the star chart is predicated not just on bithdate, but the specific date and time and (for some) the longitude and latitude (presumeably so they can track the movements of stars and planets relative to your birth sky more precisely (or something like that). I have an aunt and a friend who are very keen on astrology so I've absorbed what little I understand all indirectly, but I can sort of see how people could get into astrology as a means of making sense of the "chaos of nothing" that is life.
Ridiculous that so many embrace the idiocy of astrology but reject, out of hand the truth behind phrenology....
The astrology charts are based on the stars in the positions they were at several thousand years ago as seen in India. They've moved a bit since then, enough so that statements about "the stars at your birth" are incorrect. Not that the real position of the stars matters to people reading astrology predictions. Those who are looking to the position of the stars as the stars would have been on their birthday had they been born in ancient India for answers about their future in the suburbs in Wisconsin are entirely impervious to fact or they'd notice how often the predictions are wrong.
The astrology charts are based on the stars in the positions they were at several thousand years ago as seen in India. They've moved a bit since then, enough so that statements about "the stars at your birth" are incorrect. Not that the real position of the stars matters to people reading astrology predictions. Those who are looking to the position of the stars as the stars would have been on their birthday had they been born in ancient India for answers about their future in the suburbs in Wisconsin are entirely impervious to fact or they'd notice how often the predictions are wrong.
Nancy Reagan reportedly used an astrologer to make scheduling decisions for President Regan.
I once heard an astrology skeptic say that the pull from the obstetricians forceps during birth is exponentially greater that the gravitational pull of the stars.
The Magi were astrologers, and the stars led them to the Christ Child.
Well, now that "Woke Science" has disgraced itself beyond ridiculous, what are people to believe? Medical schools are teaching that birth sex is not real. Mothers are looking a ultrasounds of fetuses to see what sex they are. Medicine is turning in to a clown show. Sir William Osler would be so disappointed to see what has happened.
Any more, the opinions of "experts" as reported in the mass media are often less accurate than the information given out by astrologers. So why not go with astrology instead of what the media calls "science."
Any more, the opinions of "experts" reported in the mass media are often less accurate than the information given out by astrologers. So why not go with astrology instead of what the media calls "science."
Astrology and religions are all bullshit! I believe the truth to human existance is in reading fortune cookies.
Crimso,
"Science is the belief in the fallibility of experts." - R. Feynman
C’mon Althouse.
“What’s Your Sign?” was just a pickup line.
In simple physics terms, the gravitational force between two people in the same room is greater than that between a person and any celestial body other than the earth. To think that the positions of celestial bodies has an influence over our lives is absurd.
In the '60s, asking 'What's your sign?' was a conversation starter, with potential benefits.
Today we have to start with, "What's your gender?"
Not an improvement.
I prefer truly random advice like one gets from throwing the I Ching.
"Astrology and religions are all bullshit! I believe the truth to human existance is in reading fortune cookies."
...in bed.
"So why not go with astrology instead of what the media calls "science.""
Oh, IDK. Perhaps because there is no data that says it works nor any plausible mechanism for how it would work.
Just spit-ballin'…
““What’s Your Sign?” was just a pickup line.”
Yes, but this came up an hour into a conversation that had me thinking there was some compatibility. I was also looking for an out so it was convenient.
“Years ago, I rejected a guy because he revealed an interest in astrology. I told one and then, separately, another law professor friend this funny story, and both of them told me they believed in astrology.
I've been absorbing that reality for 30+ years.”
It might be that some lawprofs have a sense of humor. Or maybe it was just a nonconfrontational way of saying “Nope”.
I was also looking for an out so it was convenient.
And you, a law professor!
The modern science of astrology has moved to climate change. They take very careful measurements of the world and invest them with imaginative interpretations.
she said, adding that astrology is generally less prescriptive than religion. “I think that’s the beauty of it,” Kingsley added. “You can use it any way you want to.”
As long as you feel good about yourself, right? I mean- you wouldn't want some mysterious book to harsh your mellow, would you?
And you call yourself a scientist.
Belief in astrology is just one of many things that reveal the deeply rooted irrationality and magical thinking that is inextinguishable in human beings, ( e.g., believing Donald Trump is a good and honest man who cares about anyone else other than himself or that he actually won the 2020 election).
Using astrology as Divination is a dangerous occult activity. So maybe it’s better to shun it as most educated folks do. The horoscopes in news papers is a daily divination and junk. But the human cultures on earth for tens of thousands of years used the stars for finding meanings about crops and about relationships.
A compromise would be learning the insights into personalities that we can see still used in Meyers Briggs and Eharmony. Just never use the teachings for divination. Use them for understanding why some people like you some people hate you.
OK. It is almost like cheating to use these teachings to understand personality types. But the computer services today can do that. The basics seem to be that Sun signs are of very little value while the planets (that are the Moon sign
and the Mars and Venus and mercury and Jupiter placements ) are the most important.
For instance the same birthdays in different years make very different personalities because of those other placements that are different. My son and I are the same birthday but different in our other “ planets”. And we are more different than the same.
Practice tip: find a trial lawyer who combines a Sun, Moon, and Mercury in Gemini with a Mars in Aires.
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