October 12, 2022

"[T]he 'Lebensborn' program — meaning wellspring or fountain of life... created in 1935... provided luxurious accommodations for unwed, pregnant women."

"Part of the program’s attraction was that unwed pregnant girls could give birth in secret. In 1939, about 58 percent of the mothers-to-be who applied to the program were unwed... by 1940, that number had swelled to 70 percent. Often, the homes were converted estates decorated by Himmler himself, using the highest quality loot confiscated from Jewish homes after their owners had been killed or sent to camps. Girls who were already pregnant or willing to be impregnated by SS officers had to prove their Aryan lineage going back three generations and pass inspections that included measuring the size of their heads and the length of their teeth. Once accepted, they were pampered by nurses and staff who served them delicacies at mealtimes and provided a recreational diet rich in Nazi propaganda...."

From "A new novel tells the story of Nazi birthing farms" by Kathleen Parker (WaP).

The new novel is "Cradles of the Reich" by Jennifer Coburn.

Here's the article in the Holocaust Encyclopedia about the Lebensborn program.

I found that as I was looking for photographs showing how a place "decorated by Himmler" would look. Here's a propaganda photograph with a caption that translated into "Everything for the healthy child":

 
 
From the Holocaust Encyclopedia article:
Himmler had hoped that the program would become the wellspring of future generations of Nazi Germany’s racial elite. However, Lebensborn disappointed these expectations. Although the program’s homes claimed to uphold the highest standards of modern medicine, serious complaints about the quality of medical care emerged....
Himmler had estimated that 100,000 “biologically valuable” German women obtained abortions illegally each year, despite increased penalties. However, only around 7,000 children were born into the Lebensborn homes during the program’s nine-year-long existence. 
Lebensborn ultimately fostered many more kidnapped foreign children, although the precise numbers are difficult to establish. The legacy of the Lebensborn program includes broken homes and devastated parents. It also left a generation of children forced to contend with identity crises as well as the social disapproval that often accompanied their association with a Nazi eugenics program.

I'm not going to read the new novel. I'd rather read nonfiction on this topic, but I would like to read a novel set in the near future that envisions a similar program in America, addressing the problem of declining birth and acknowledging that outlawing abortion won't work.

Of course, the racial aspect of the story would need to be changed, but how much? We'd have some sort of ideology of "diversity" or racial balancing, and it would be interesting to depict various American leaders attempting to work that out and needing to worry that what they are doing is like Lebensborn. Like Lebensborn. 

It would also be interesting to show American leaders attempting to draw in young American women through architecture and interior decoration... displayed on TikTok and Facebook. The novel could be very funny if you got just the right sort of obtuseness as the old try to imagine what these young women today want.

Offers of great food and a wonderful health care system would be part of the draw. More things to go wrong in this novel's twists and turns.

I could write this novel, but it will remain forever on my shelf labeled "Unwritten Books."

89 comments:

Temujin said...

You've got the outline. Get to it.

Of course, the blog would have to go.

Yikes.

gilbar said...

it takes a village, to raise a fascist child; just ask Hilary!

Big Mike said...

but I would like to read a novel set in the near future that envisions a similar program in America,


It’s title is Brave New World, it was written by Aldous Huxley and published 90 years ago.

Readering said...

2 sides of Nazi eugenics. 7000 births, 6000000 deaths.

Hassayamper said...

You could become famous. Or infamous. It could be another “Handmaid’s Tale”, or another “Brave New World”, or it could get you treated like Rowling, with an angry mob of the purple-haired nose-ringed types throwing bricks at your windows.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

OMG! It's just like those evil Christian right wingers!

except it's not really.

Lurker21 said...

Sounds like propaganda against crisis pregnancy centers and other attempts to provide alternatives to abortion (heavily influenced by The Handmaid's Tale?. I believe the Swedish Social Democrats were taking similar steps to encourage motherhood at about the same time and later and their polices were celebrated as a laudable part of the welfare state. But now "pronatalism" is the enemy and associated with Nazism and racism -- as if any anti-natalist society could survive for very long.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

The pregnancy center in Longmont Co was set on fire and spray painted with angry Antifa symbols by angry leftist Antifa Brownshirts.

Because taking care of mothers who might keep their babies- is considered nazi now.
and Handmaid's tale!
and destroying a Christian pregnancy center in a state that allows abortion is perfectly logical and anti-Nazi according to the hivemind.

The leftist Nazi have every right to retaliate by committing arson. This is just like the BLM/White left antifa riots and arson that caused billions in property damage in the riots of 2020 that left black businesses in ruins for the cause of Saint Fentaynl and get Democrats elected.


typingtalker said...

Part of the program’s attraction was that unwed pregnant girls could give birth in secret.

More likely it provided, plausible deniability.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

provided a recreational diet rich in Nazi propaganda

This is a very awkward and unnerving phrase and I don't even know how to unpack it. Coming as it did after a passage about measuring their teeth, the word diet leaps out as if dropped there by accident. I mean I can connect recreational with diet and it makes me think of snacks or meals outside the regularly scheduled ones. But then the "rich in Nazi propaganda" phrase pops out and the snack images evaporate and all I'm left with is empty words.

Kind of like listening to Philip Bump. Yeah that's it. Thinking of Nazi propaganda reminds me of WaPo!

Iman said...

WTF… why always with teh Nazis?

I’d yield the rest of my time, but fuck this.

Dave Begley said...

IMDB on the movie "Sophie's Choice."

Sophie later learns of an epidemic in the children's camp, and becomes concerned for her son's well-being. She convinces the Commandant to let him into the Lebensborn programme. He relents and tells Sophie she will see him the next day. However, the Commandant breaks his promise about letting Sophie see her son. She never finds out what happened to him.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Giving birth in secret and kept close and raised by the Nazi propaganda machine - paid for with the blood of Jews and stolen Jewish property is downright horrible and creepy.

However -those kids didn't have much choice, did they?

Ann Althouse said...

“ It’s title is Brave New World, it was written by Aldous Huxley and published 90 years ago.”

BNW takes place in London, and it’s the future understood from the perspective available in 1931, so no incorporation of what we’ve learned from Nazis.

Randomizer said...

For our American Lebensborn novel:

In the not so distant future, America is realizing the depth of the learning loss due to Covid remote schooling. An innovative Andrew Yang type Democrat runs for president. He is convinced we need an "Improve the American Mind Moonshot" initiative. Being a canny politician, his motto is, "Make America Smart Again!". MASA is wildly popular.

America has a multitude of smart young men who can't get laid, but can't think of anything else. Their intellectual potential is being squandered.

America has a multitude of attractive and gifted young women with ambition. They want to be media influencers, but the market is saturated.

MASA will bring them together to produce a smart, motivated and attractive next generation of Americans. Our Lebensborn program has a marketing department to promote the media wannabees, the incels get laid, and the offspring are raised in ideal conditions.

Ann Althouse said...

“ You could become famous. Or infamous. It could be another “Handmaid’s Tale”, or another “Brave New World”, or it could get you treated like Rowling, with an angry mob of the purple-haired nose-ringed types throwing bricks at your windows.”

Yes, first, as you can see, I am pre-canceled by the literary world.

Second, I wrote out the idea in 15 minutes. To actually make it a legit novel would take at least a year. It would be a very bad use of my time compared to blogging.

But, I would do it if it had intrinsic value to me as a way to spend my time, and I could bypass publishing by making it a Substack project and serialize it to subscribers.

n.n said...

Diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry), Inequity, and Exclusion (DIE).

WTF… why always with teh Nazis?

Because the Chinese were People of Yellow (i.e. color bloc), People of Tibet were suppressed through immigration reform, Africans are People of Black (e.g. Mandela's Xhosa vs Zulu, Hutu vs Tutsi, Kenyan elite vs deplorables, not Musk et al), and babies are Fetal-Americans (Fetal, a technical term of art, for social distance), or 1/2 human.

Christopher B said...

I'd rather read nonfiction on this topic, but I would like to read a novel set in the near future that envisions a similar program in America, addressing the problem of declining birth and acknowledging that outlawing abortion won't work.

The philosophical, political, and social changes to current U.S culture required in such a work would make it just as much a fantasy as The Handmaid's Tale and primarily useful in the same way, as hyperbolic fuel for people who like to play emotive political games. The Nazi's racial theories were whack even by the standards of contemporary Progressive eugenicists.

While it might be a bit of exaggeration to say that nobody is anti-abortion as a way to reverse population decline, it ain't much of one. Most discussions I've ever read about missing population tend to point out that given the socio-economic characteristics of the women who get abortions, Democrats favor aborting children most likely to grow into their most consistent voters.

n.n said...

A handmade tale is a social, corporate, political, and journolistic work of art published, broadcast, and steered by the minute, hour, day, and brayed religiously.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse (8:48), correct, though many of the most important events take place in the Southwest United States and the southeast coast of England. I got a bit scared when Gerald Ford became President, given that the dates in the book are given as “After Ford.”

Two thoughts. First, the main idea of the book is based on the notion of birthing farms and humans born into castes, and that seems to me to a bit reflective of Nazi birthing farms with children born with the highest levels of Aryan purity. Second, did Himmler or his wife or his mistress get some of their ideas from Huxley? Had Brave Nee World been translated into German?

Drago said...

Iman: "WTF… why always with teh Nazis?"

Because the entirety of the left/dems/nevertrump (but I repeat myself) believe they have been successful in transferring the actions of socialists in Europe (Germany, Italy) in the 1930's/40's to modern day republicans so they want to keep emphasizing that.

The left/dems/nevertrump (but I repeat myself) have been less successful transferring the actions of democraticals in the slavery/post-civil war/segregation/jim crow eras to modern day republicans, so that "Southern Strategy" ploy is usually left on the shelf.

The left/dems/nevertrump (but I repeat myself) have been wholly unsuccessful transferring the actions of the later commies (russki/ChiCom's/Castro/KhmerRouge/et al) to modern day republicans, though they did give it a good college try during Trump. The democraticals and their pals know that their philosophical amigos in the KGB/Stasi/Mao's Red Guards still reflects poorly on the New Soviet Democraticals. So those dudes remain on the shelf.

Then you have assorted other "strong man"/"strong woman" authoritarian types that the left/dems/nevertrump (but I repeat myself) would LOVE to transfer guilt from and then onto the republicans, but those guys tend to be too esoteric (after the dems have dumbed down education for decades) and therefore not useful for mass political communications/lie-filled narrative needs, so those cats sit on the shelf as well.

So, given the above, Nazi's it is! And likely Nazi's it always will be for our dumb NPC lefties.

Greg The Class Traitor said...

But, I would do it if it had intrinsic value to me as a way to spend my time, and I could bypass publishing by making it a Substack project and serialize it to subscribers.


The writers of the Liaden novels crowd funded two of their novels, to answer a question that had been left open by a previous novel.

What they did was announce donation goals for each chapter. When they go the money, they'd write the chapter and release it.

Both books were eventually written and published.

So it can be done, without Kickstarter. But it helps to have a fan base that is really interested in the novel :-)

Ann Althouse said...

“ But, I would do it if it had intrinsic value to me as a way to spend my time, and I could bypass publishing by making it a Substack project and serialize it to subscribers.”

My 2 proposed incentives are at war with each other. Maybe.

cassandra lite said...

The Eves of the 1000-year Reich.

Goebbels really had a knack for catchy marketing phrases.

Ann Althouse said...

There are many books in the Brave New World / Handmaid’s Tale tradition.

Science fiction reuses the basic idea over and over. Time travel. Space travel. Etc etc….

Levi Starks said...

So this is how we’re packaging Abortion rights today?

rcocean said...

They kidnapped foreign kids although "precise numbers" are hard to locate. LOL! Maybe they don't give the "precise number" because the guesstimated number is about 100 or less. Or the person who wrote the article was too lazy to look it up.

Nazi Germany, it seems like yesterday. Only it was 77 years ago. Imagine if 1984, everyone had been talking about 1907, Kaiser, T.R., and Imperial Germany like it was still on-going. The whole world seems to have Nazis on the brain. You even have Zelensky and Putin calling each other Nazis!

Owen said...

Ann: “… I could write this novel, but it will remain forever on my shelf labeled ‘Unwritten Books.’”

I think we were given the outline a few years back by the Obama Administration with its story of “Julia” enjoying cradle-to-grave healthcare services from the kindly State.

Roger Sweeny said...

@ Big Mike (9:14) - I think the more likely inspiration for Huxley's alpha, beta, and gamma people was Plato's gold, silver, and bronze people in The Republic. In each case, the three groups are raised differently and have different privileges and responsibilities as adults.

n.n said...

acknowledging that outlawing abortion won't work

demos-cracy is aborted in darkness (i.e. murder)

That said, in order to keep women affordable, available, and taxable, and our little girls, too, and the "burden" of evidence redistributed, sequestered, the State will offer... defend religious (e.g. ethical) sanction to perform human rites for social, redistributive, clinical, political, and fair weather causes under the Diversity, Inequity,and Exclusion (DIE) doctrine.

gahrie said...

Democrats favor aborting children most likely to grow into their most consistent voters.

Black women are less than 14% of the population of American women, but they have over 36% of abortions in America. Democrats almost invariably receive over 90% of Black votes.

n.n said...

There are many books in the Brave New World / Handmaid’s Tale tradition.

Science fiction reuses the basic idea over and over. Time travel. Space travel. Etc etc….


Nothing will change, because nothing has changed, and diverse minorities receive secular lucre to sustain a monotonic state of human development. All's fair in lust and abortion.

Bob Boyd said...

Maybe in the future they won't have to even bother women with birthin' babies. You'll just order one from Amazon.

gahrie said...

There are many books in the Brave New World / Handmaid’s Tale tradition.

David Weber has a A Handmaid's Tale subplot in his Manticore universe. That universe also features artificial wombs.

Beasts of England said...

‘But, I would do it if it had intrinsic value to me as a way to spend my time, and I could bypass publishing by making it a Substack project and serialize it to subscribers.’

I’m curious about your writing style. Yes, I read your blog daily, but that’s most often analytic in tone. Have you ever tried composing for character development or settings?

(Apologies if you have and I’ve missed it.)

Dave Begley said...

Ann:

You are a great writer and artistic talent. Do it. Don't put it off.

It will come easy for you.

BIII Zhang said...

"Yes, first, as you can see, I am pre-canceled by the literary world."

Six of the Top 10 books on the New York Times bestseller list were written by a woman who doesn't have a publisher. She self-publishes. Maybe you've heard of her.

You have to get around the gatekeepers (and we all know who we're talking about ... right, since we're on the subject?)

Spiros said...

Wells’ The Island of Dr. Moreau is another, much earlier, sci fi book about the horror of eugenics.

gahrie said...

The basic concept sounds a lot like the settlement houses that appeared in the US around the same time. You could also make an argument that our welfare system is the same thing by a different process.

CJinPA said...

Can't read it without a subscription, but the most-liked comment was about Justice Amy Coney Barrett. So I think I got the gist of it.

Dave Begley said...

Speaking of being cancelled, I got kicked off of AMZN's book reviews because I wrote something skeptical of global warming and it was satire. It was along the lines of that if CAGW was really an existential threat to the world, the USAF would bomb China's coal-fired power plants

About 20 years of AMZN book reviews were erased.

ALP said...

I have stacks of my father's old "Galaxy" sci-fi magazines, some go back to the late 1940's -1950's. Many stories with a Nazi twist, especially since it was so recent.

Joe Smith said...

'Girls who were already pregnant or willing to be impregnated by SS officers had to prove their Aryan lineage going back three generations and pass inspections that included measuring the size of their heads and the length of their teeth.'

So Himmler invented Tinder?

Bob Boyd said...

Here's a plot idea:
Everybody happily believes that their super-convenient Amazon babies are produced in shiny, stainless facilities by scientists in lab coats carefully tweaking knobs and tapping meters on hi-tech baby-growing gizmos so advanced they make a soft serve ice cream machine look like a bone tomahawk.
But...turns out the gizmos didn't work as advertised. In fact, the babies are really made by abducted and enslaved women who are forced produce inventory for Amazon in a remote, secret baby farm in say...Putin's Russia.
But one determined woman escapes...with her baby...and has to make her way through the Siberian wilderness while being hunted by Putin and Bezos Jr's thugs, who will stop at nothing to stop her.

Spiros said...

Oh my God! Frida Lyngstad (a singer in the band ABBA) was a Lebensborn baby.

rhhardin said...

You want Aryians to make the nation strong. Jews and other stock weaken a nation. If that's the party line, that's what you get. Hitler believed it.

He also believed in a bogus economic theory, that if Germany keeps importing food in exchange for stuff it makes, other nations will soon no longer need the stuff Germany makes and Germany will starve. This required expansion into nations producing food.

You could use weaker races as slave laborers there, tying the two together.

wildswan said...

There's great possibilities for such a story. It's so new that even the archetype does not exist.
You could look at Dutch social programs for crisis pregnancies for facts to provide an imaginative basis for left, non-eugenic lebensborn. The Dutch supply everything as a right - apartment, an income, medical insurance which covers all costs, a social worker to assist in navigating programs. And this doesn't stop abortions at all because, as it was explained to me, what women who are about to become mothers want is a supportive group of people, not of programs. Someone has to care for them as they must care for their child. Most were dumped at once by their boyfriend when they refused to get an abortion and most had been previously dumped by their families when they refused to give up their boyfriend. So anyone who refuses to dump her child at that point is heroic but not necessarily, how shall I say, trained in parenting or in life skills. So a real lebensborn home would be trying to meet that human need as well - bread and roses.
I think I know what the women in a voluntarily-chosen, non-eugenic lebensborn home would actually look like and actually want having worked in a prolife sponsored home for women who were pregnant. Most women go back to their families if they decide to raise their child and most families accept them and help raise their grandchildren. But there's a small group whose family situations are too broken or too intact and rigid to allow them back. (It's not large enough to regenerate America from.)
The point as I see it, is: who gets abandoned by their family when they get pregnant so that they need help from strangers? Women who are seen by their family as "promiscuous." That has different meanings in different cultures so the mix inside the lebensborn homes would be diverse beyond skin color. As I say, great possibilities for a novel

cubanbob said...

The Nazi's obsession with Aryan looks is strange since Hitler and the top Nazis weren't ideal Aryan stock.

If Althouse were to ever pursue a novelization perhaps she can use Idiocracy but in reverse. Cletus doesn't get to sire offspring but high IQ men and women are the only ones that can have kids. What would a society be like when the majority of the children born are one or two standard deviations higher than the current average.

Narr said...

BNW was translated into German (as "Welt--Wohin?") in 1932 but I didn't find anything about reception by the Nazis (if any) in a quick search.

The East Germans authorized a translation in the early 80s, FWIW.

walter said...

"Girls who were already pregnant or willing to be impregnated by SS officers "
Define "willing"

Jupiter said...

"I'd rather read nonfiction on this topic ..."

Then you might want to skip the Holocaust Encyclopedia.

Static Ping said...

Lunatics who believe in crazy eugenics theory fail at eugenics.

Who could have saw that coming?

Lurker21 said...

In a more general way, today's left doesn't seem to be interested in communal living experiences and "intentional communities" (utopias) anymore. Is that a step forward or a step back? And will that be changing if polyamory and polygamy become acceptable?

Robert Cook said...

"The pregnancy center in Longmont Co was set on fire and spray painted with angry Antifa symbols by angry leftist Antifa Brownshirts."

Hmmm...I don't see any mention in the linked article that suggests or implicates Antifa in the arson. The one symbol I see that you describe as an "angy antifa symbol" could also be an "Anarchy" symbol, or a made up symbol representing another group, or, as I suspect, a symbol intended to point blame at Antifa or other amorphous leftist groups. "Antifa" does not refer to a specific group, but is a broad label to cover many groups who deem themselves "anti-fascist."

It is very easy for anyone to spray any symbols, and their presence alone does not identify the perpetrators. It could well have been police "agents provocateur."

From the linked page above:

"During the 2020 riots following the death of George Floyd, there were also some reports of Antifa activity. In Newark, New Jersey, the FBI and Newark Police Department investigated possible Antifa activity and arrested an individual for possessing a knife, a hatchet, and a jar of gasoline with intent to use violence.1 In Austin, Texas, law enforcement officials reported that Antifa was involved in violent activity, including the looting of a Target store.2 There were also law enforcement reports of Antifa activity in other cities, such as Minneapolis, Minnesota; Spokane, Washington; and Portland, Oregon. The FBI nevertheless assessed that criminals—not Antifa or other ideologically motivated individuals—perpetrated the vast majority of looting and violence. Other law enforcement agencies came to a similar conclusion. 'We saw no organized effort of antifa here in Los Angeles,' said Josh Rubenstein, the spokesman for the Los Angeles Police Department."

Drago said...

Spiros: "Oh my God! Frida Lyngstad (a singer in the band ABBA) was a Lebensborn baby."

Yes, she has discussed this in the past.

I'm surprised Howard hasn't shown up to claim credit for "introducing" this fact to Althouse blog. But not to worry, I suspect he just might still do that. Its one of his "things" now.

Saint Croix said...

Shelters for unwed mothers was kind of a world-wide thing, I think. We definitely had them in the U.S.

They were necessary because a lot of families would kick out a daughter who got pregnant. They would be homeless.

We still have a home for unwed mothers here in Charlotte.

So it doesn't surprise me that they had a home for unwed moms in Nazi Germany. While this was going on with the blonde, blue-eyed moms, Goebbels was forcibly aborting Jewish moms and doing horrific experiments on them.

If you're going to write for a newspaper you ought to know what an "atrocity" is and avoid suggesting that a home for unwed girls is in any way similar to what the Nazis did to the Jews (and the gays, and millions of other people).

Narayanan said...

why not simply translate Handmaid tale into Deutsch

Narayanan said...

Ann Althouse said...
There are many books in the Brave New World / Handmaid’s Tale tradition.

Science fiction reuses the basic idea over and over. Time travel. Space travel. Etc etc…
============
a very different take in Falling Free

Falling Free is a science fiction novel by American writer Lois McMaster Bujold, part of her Vorkosigan Saga. It was first published as four installments in Analog from December 1987 to February 1988,[1] and won the Nebula Award for Best Novel for 1988. It is included in the 2007 omnibus Miles, Mutants and Microbes.

Robert Cook said...

"Because the entirety of the left/dems/nevertrump (but I repeat myself) believe they have been successful in transferring the actions of socialists in Europe (Germany, Italy) in the 1930's/40's to modern day republicans so they want to keep emphasizing that."

I don't know enough about the Italian Fascists to say they were not socialists, (I know Mussolini started out as a socialist), but the German Nazis were definitely not socialists. (I know, you or other doofuses will say, "It's in their name--"National Socialist German Workers Party"! But that proves nothing; it is no more indicative of their true makeup than is "People's Republic of China.") Hitler took over a small fringe party and turned it to his own purposes. Keeping the name was just one shrewd method of Hitler's to make the party initially attractive to economically distressed Germans...in short, propaganda. Whatever elements of socialism that had originally been part of the Nazi party in its beginnings were erased by Hitler after 1933.

"In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished."

Jamie said...

Science fiction reuses the basic idea over and over. Time travel. Space travel. Etc etc….

All fiction reuses the basic ideas over and over. Man vs nature. Man vs man. Man vs self. Science fiction elicits scorn among "literary" fiction readers, but it's doing the same job: projecting human beings, often but not always archetypes, against evocative backgrounds in an attempt to illuminate why we humans do what we do, and how our pasts, our circumstances, our personae affect our decisions. And it does that job with the addition of speculating on where humanity is headed, something literary writers don't typically bother with.

(When the writer is writing from the POV of an alien species, it's more like, say, Dickens - providing insight about "us" by writing about "them" and our similarities and differences.)

Robert Cook said...

"You are a great writer and artistic talent. Do it. Don't put it off.

"It will come easy for you."


Writing is never easy...especially if the writer intends to do good work.

Iman said...

“Oh my God! Frida Lyngstad (a singer in the band ABBA) was a Lebensborn baby.”

Mama mia!

Rollo said...

Reading that a historical novel is "well researched" or "impeccably researched" makes me cringe a little. Are the reviewers really qualified to judge? Usually not.

JK Brown said...

I've recently been watching videos from TikHistory, who does very good, thickly referenced, videos on the Nazis/WWII.
He describes the Nazis as "racial socialists" vice the "class socialists" of Marxism, or the "nationality socialists" of the Italian Fascists.

This video examine the weird Nazi religion, which Himmler was the most zealous believer. Knowing racial basis of that religion explains a lot of the Nazi actions from the Lebensborn to why they industrialized the killing of the Jews even at the cost of the war effort.

One chilling revelation is that Hitler, et al, believe Aryans (not all white people, btw) alone created civilization and co-mingling with Jews was causing civilization to collapse. The lebensborn were set up to promote the births of children without diluted blood. Literally, Hitler thought he was saving human civilization with the Holocaust. I'm looking at you, Greta Thunberg, et al.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUq3V8kl30&t=1s

JK Brown said...

Define "willing"

The Nazi religion was widely subscribed to in the German population who qualified as Aryan. How many girls do you think would take up the honor of continuing the very basis of their beliefs.

La Raza for the Hispanophone activists in the today.

Tina Trent said...

Oh please, Ann. Do you know anything about the social history of maternity in America? From the 20s to the 50's, the big problem was men abandoning women and children, many of whom, like my father, went to horrific workhouses disguised as orphanages.

From the mid-Sixties to today, the story of childbirth has been one of rapidly increasing single motherhood subsidized by taxpayers who could, also increasingly, not afford children of their own, first among blacks, then Hispanics and whites.

Nobody wants stiripculture eugenics programs. They just want fathers to support the damn kids they create and mothers to stop planning their lives around having children out of wedlock. In both cases, so the rest of us don't have to support their choices.

Are you that terrified of a 15 week limit on abortions? That's absurd. It's still far beyond what is permitted in so-called woman-friendly countries in Europe. You are irrational on this subject. The best way to avoid abortions is to encourage and subsidize family formation for everyone, not keep pushing this pathetic gender politics and celebrating single motherhood and absent fatherhood. Nobody is going to build nurseries to take white children from stable homes and raise them as orphans to gratify some white supremacist goal. That's sheer crazy talk.

You're wildly off the mark about abortion.

chickelit said...

This Inga's furtive fear for life under Trump: Children, preferably sired by Trump devotees, being carried to term in a Handmaid's Tale nightmare. In reality, the loyal son of the current President is the only one behaving as such a way.

Drago said...

Robert Cook: "Whatever elements of socialism that had originally been part of the Nazi party in its beginnings were erased by Hitler after 1933."

LOL

The Bolsheviks whacked the Mensheviks so that means that the Bolsheviks purged all the commies out of their movement!

Nice try Comrade. The Nazi's were nationalistic fascist socialists. Just because they killed their competitor socialists means nothing.

Drago said...

"Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished."

Why? Because this lefty says so?

https://www.britannica.com/editor/Michael-Ray/6392

Again, nice try.

Drago said...

JK Brown: "I've recently been watching videos from TikHistory, who does very good, thickly referenced, videos on the Nazis/WWII.
He describes the Nazis as "racial socialists" vice the "class socialists" of Marxism, or the "nationality socialists" of the Italian Fascists."

Uh oh. Cookie's newest go-to unimpeachable source Michael Ray says that is all wrong!!

LOL

Josephbleau said...

When I first read this I thought it said LebensPorn and wondered what those Nazis were up to now.

Richard Aubrey said...

Peter Neumann, author of The Black March, his memoir of WW II as an SS officer, refers to the impregnation process. I don't recall the "willing" but he did say it was his first "conquest" as a man. Pathetic.

Joe Smith said...

"Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished."

This is right up there with 'The Democrats and Republicans switched parties...'

Narr said...

Chapter and verse, Jupiter?

Enlighten us.

Static Ping said...

Mussolini was an adamant socialist. His big conversion was during WWI when he switched from an international socialist to a national socialist because nationalism-based socialism seemed to be far more effective at gaining support. To say Italian fascism was not socialist would have been a shock to Il Duce.

Or are we using the term "socialist" in the same way we use "fascist"? You know, a word that might technically mean something but you would never guess given how many definitions and exceptions it has depending on who you ask.

Or perhaps we are just playing a game where authoritarian leaders are never truly whatever philosophy they say they are. I mean there is some logic to that; tyrants are typically less concerned about how the system works as long as the system bends to their will, but some tyrants are actually true believers.

Lurker21 said...

Stalin persecuted Trotskyites, Bukharinites, Zinovievites, yet they were all communists. I'm not saying that the Nazis were socialists, just that the way people blithely assign them to the right wing (or the left wing) usually leaves out a lot of details and nuances. The idea expressed at the time that Hitler realized he could socialize or nationalize the people, rather than the economy expressed one insight about his regime.

walter said...

JK Brown said...
--
Perhaps. but somehow I suspect a bit of intense..persuasion..or outright cover for rape. They didn't exactly seem above that.

Robert Cook said...

"Why? Because this lefty says so?"

The Encyclopedia Brittanica certainly holds greater legitimacy as a source of reliable information than you and your kookoo hard-right loons (who are innately fascist). You guys just want the stink of fascism off yourselves, as you want to believe "the right can never be or do wrong." All dictatorships are by definition left, right? In the same way, any historian who would say the Nazis were "right" must be "left," right? Wrong. The Nazis have been recognized as right-wing for decades, (including by the American Nazis and Nazi-sympathizers of that era and up to today, who did not and do not consider themselves to be socialists or communists).

MacMacConnell said...

Progressives supported eugenics prior to the end WWII. Some of America's great philanthropic funds that supported PBS Masterpiece programs in the 70s and 80s were dry humping Hitler's eugenic programs with grants and awards in the 1930s. Damn near every President in the first half of the 20th century believed in eugenics. Progressives in every state had eugenics organizations. In the US almost 700,000 people were forcibly sterilized in the first half of the 20th century.
Coke was the official beverage of the 1938 Berlin Olympics and did business in Germany during the war, it's beverage was now called Fanta.

n.n said...

Stalin persecuted Trotskyites, Bukharinites, Zinovievites, yet they were all communists.

In the authoritarian (i.e democratic/dictatorial) model, there can be only one.

Michael K said...

Blogger Robert Cook said...

"Why? Because this lefty says so?"

The Encyclopedia Brittanica certainly holds greater legitimacy as a source of reliable information than you and your kookoo hard-right loons (who are innately fascist). You guys just want the stink of fascism off yourselves, as you want to believe "the right can never be or do wrong."


Hilarious. Cook you should have done standup. Mention the Socialist roots of the Nazis and he goes ballistic.

Michael K said...

Blogger Robert Cook said...

"The pregnancy center in Longmont Co was set on fire and spray painted with angry Antifa symbols by angry leftist Antifa Brownshirts."

Hmmm...I don't see any mention in the linked article that suggests or implicates Antifa in the arson


Cook is confident that any newspaper would explain that Democrats are doing this as a war on pro-lifers. Cook believes everythibng in the newspaper, especially the left wing ones.

Another old lawyer said...

The wrong people learned way too much from the Nazis.

ken in tx said...

I remember the lurid covers of 1950s pulp paperbacks and magazines about Nazi breeding camps. Hot leggy blonds with Nazi arm bands for garters.

Drago said...

Comrade Cookie: "The Encyclopedia Brittanica certainly holds greater legitimacy as a source of reliable information than you and your kookoo hard-right loons (who are innately fascist)."

LOL

Behold, the mewlings of an unreconstructed stalinist....whom Cookie also claims wasnt a commie!

Wanna have some fun? Ask cookie which commie regimes count as real commie regimes.

Spoiler: cookie doesnt believe ANY commie regimes were "real" commies, but he sure the heck "knows", in the way that a commissar might "know", that every right-winger is "innately" fascist!

And Cookies appeal to authority are also becoming Fauci-like in volume, as is expected of every leftist.

Drago said...

Cookie: "The Nazis have been recognized as right-wing for decades..."

By leftists.

The same leftists that hilariously assert that the republicans and democraticals literally switched voting bases in the south in the 60's.

And given you democratical NPC foot soldiers buy that nonsense hook line and sinker, you will accept literally anything your superiors shove down your throat.

MacMacConnell said...

The American Nazi Party's name was World Union of Free Enterprise National Socialists (WUFENS). Robert Cook needs to read the George Lincoln Rockwell interview in Playboy. The only difference between Fascism (Socialism) and Communism is whether there is state ownership of business. Funny a lot of powerful people in business and politics thought Fascism would save Capitalism in the 1930s, FDR, Joe Kennedy and a young JFK come to mind. Then WWII happened.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Where's the Drag Queen? Oh, no teacher's union... I get it.

Narr said...

Still waiting for enlightenment, Jupiter.

Chapter and verse.