That's what people whose candidate lost have said about why the winner won after every election since 1996, according to University of Pennsylvania polisci prof Diana Mutz, who's been taking surveys on this question.
Quoted in "America, We Have a Problem/The rise of ‘political sectarianism’ is putting us all in danger" by Thomas B. Edsall (NYT).
Edsall wants to say that now people must stop behaving like this, but why would that happen? The idea — which doesn't strike me as too promising — is that with Trump people have finally gone too far. And Trump himself stoked these ideas. Edsall quotes Harvard psychology prof Steven Pinker:
What’s extraordinary about the present moment is how far most Republicans have gone in endorsing beliefs that are disconnected from reality and serve only to bind the sect and excommunicate the unfaithful.
At some point, Pinker says, "reality will push back."
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166 comments:
I can’t remember any elections before 2000, but ever since then not one election has gone by without charges of fraud or illegitimacy.
Is being divorced from reality include believing virtually every historical bellwether indicator and statistical analyses say that there is no way that Biden won the election? Because I’d have to plead guilty then.
We got our way. Now stop doing that.
I am Laslo.
Thomas Edsall gets a lot of press and looks when he writes something. Which is curious because he's been consistently unable to put his finger on the correct pulse of things.
I'll go with the election when one of these experts or media talking heads telling me to just forget about it, don't pay any attention to what you saw happen, and believe this:
Joe Biden, who was not the actual popular selection by his own party, who stayed in his basement for most of the year, who, when he did come out, gave us a large gaffe- daily, who held campaign rallies in front of throngs of, oh...35 or so people, or 20 cars, who selected the least desired person in his own party as his Vice Presidential candidate, who had a record of making racist statements, and who promised to kill the fossil fuel industry- this guy ended up with 11 million more votes than Barack Obama did in 2008 when Barack got 99% of the Black vote and every other vote available?
Is there any adult in American who can swallow that Joe Biden got more votes than Barack did in 2008 or 2012? That, while Donald Trump received more votes than any incumbent in history, it was still not enough to stem the tidal wave of enthusiasm for the gaffe machine that spent a year in a basement? That, though Trump had a huge increase in Black and Hispanic voters, he still lost by 7 million votes, though he led in key states by hundreds of thousands of votes going into the wee hours, when those states suddenly shut down, kicked out observers, and 3 hours later all somehow got Joe Biden spikes to take the lead?
If you believe that a Sack O'Potatoes could get more votes than Barack Obama, you can accept this election.
I cannot. The evidence of my senses won't let me take the word of CNN, or NBC, or Thomas Edsall.
This will not sit well with 80 million people.
The usual double standard applied by Dems on a daily basis.
At some point, Pinker says, "reality will push back."
"Systemic racism" is just as real as women turning into men, gosh darn it!
Biden captured 20% more voters than Hillary in 2016. I'd like to see political scientist explain, based on analyzing Biden's primary and general campaign; how did that happen?
Bush in 2000: selected not elected.
Bush in 2004: Some Democrats voted to reject Ohio’s electors due to “fraud”
Stacey Abrams is the real governor of Georgia.
2020 Iowa Congressional seat lost. Dem lost by seven votes and is appealing to Pelosi to seat her.
Democrats can’t accept losing.
The issues with the election are bad enough; then throw in the media malpractice with how they cover Democrats vs how they cover Republicans. Yeah, reality is going to have a say at some point. Hopefully not the point of a spear held by China.
Simple election law will stop all of this
Very simply, require the 1)Number of votes cast (not counted) by 10:00am the morning after the election 2) partial results not released until 10:00 am the morning after election.
What’s extraordinary about the present moment is how far most Republicans have gone in endorsing beliefs that are disconnected from reality
How bizarre to say that, after people on the left spent years saying that Trump was in bed with the Russians, a Russian asset, a spy for Russia, and Russians won the election for Trump in 2016. Not to mention all that time saying he was Hitler. Talk about a disconnection from reality!
The impeachment of Donald Trump, for nothing, was a remarkable event. That impeachment represented the culmination of reality denial. They simply would not accept the results of an election. So they impeached him to deny that reality, to make him disappear. Even today Joe Biden seeks to undo everything that Donald Trump did. Apparently this even includes peace in the Middle East.
"At some point, Pinker says, "reality will push back." Perhaps reality pushed back in the 2016 election.
When will reality push back on Pinker? Good and hard.
At some point, Pinker says, "reality will push back."
Funny enough, that's what Trump supporters have been saying for years about Pinker et al. They are the ones who continue to live in a fantasy world of their own design, where all their beautiful theories about how people behave and how the world works come together, no matter the damage done to the rest of us. Trump was a reaction to their failures, and they can't handle it.
Leland said...
Biden captured 20% more voters than Hillary in 2016. I'd like to see political scientist explain, based on analyzing Biden's primary and general campaign; how did that happen?
Playing Devil's Advocate: People voted against Trump, not for Biden/Harris.
The reality is that we have a system that has no way to audit elections in time to do anything about it, even when fraud is huge and obvious.
The Democrats seem to be under the impression I was happy with them before Trump.
This confuses me, greatly.
Strawman fallacy. He ignores mail-in voting.
What a fucking fraud.
What happened during the counting pause on election night then?
Where was Obama at the time of the Benghazi attack?
How does Jeffrey Epstein end up dead in custody while on suicide watch?
Yeah. We’re the delusional ones for asking questions nobody seems to have good answers for.
At some point, Pinker says, "reality will push back."
"Let's take a serious five-part look, at a marriage break-up, in reality:"
"Republicans have gone in endorsing beliefs that are disconnected from reality"
The reality is that the U.S. electoral system is far more open to fraud than any European system.
Let's follow the European model. Enlightenment Now!
Same thing with "Russian collusion." Similar with Kerry's Ohio delusion (which was too far-fetched to go get much traction, though Kerry may still believe it himself).
When it comes to politics, everybody is in a bubble. The Times bubble. The Harvard bubble.
Bubble sweet bubble, there's no place like our bubble.
How weird that after four years of every prominent Democrat calling Trump illegitimate and treasonous, the fact half of America feels cheated and expresses it offends Thomas whatcaniwritetohelpdemocratsnow? Edsall is offended! Poor Tommy. He will also be shocked to learn reality has been pushing back for four years. That’s why Trump accomplished twice as much already as the last Democrat did in eight years. You’re about to get what you voted for Tommy good and hard.
Blogger Lem says...Yeah. We’re the delusional ones for asking questions nobody seems to have good answers for
This is the basis for any religion.
How bizarre to say [what Pinker said]
That's what I thought, but Pinker has had a bad case of TDS all along, thanks in part to his own tribe of academic morons[1] and his own tribal thinking.
[1] "There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them."
The vote-counters in Atlanta, Georgia, said that there was a flowing-water incident that began at about 6 a.m. on Election Day. Some said that a waterpipe burst in a room that was near a room were absentee ballots were stored. Some said that a toilet overflowed in a bathroom that was near the room where absentee ballots were stored.
Whatever or whereever the problem was, it was fixed by 8 a.m.
Ballot-counting started at 8:30 a.m.
In the early evening, journalists were told that the flowing-water incident had delayed the vote-counting by at least two hours.
At 10 a.m. an announcement was made that vote-counting would be suspended from 10:30 p.m. to 8:30 a.m.
While the Republican observers departed, the vote-counters loitered. After the observers were gone, the vote-counters pulled ballots from under a table and resumed counting votes for two hours -- from 11 p.m. to 1 a.m.
Some Republican observers were told that voting had resumed in the middle of the night, so the observers headed back to the voting location. A few minutes before the observers arrived, the vote-counters put all their stuff away and got out of the location.
My explanation of what happened
At some point, Pinker says, "reality will push back."
"We will have to wait, and their accumulating lies will smoke them out. It's all we can do, because they won't just stop. Which is fine, because - reality is such - it can't help but to come back and bite them on the ass. And that's gonna be a great show."
Y'all should be reading TMR more often.
I’d like the democrat election experts to answer two questions: what were the final results of the Iowa Caucus? Can we enforce a real voter ID law just one election nationwide since we are now in the era of experimenting as we go?
"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them."
E.g., Pinker's employer claims that racism makes black people get fat.
What’s extraordinary about the present moment is how far most Republicans have gone in endorsing beliefs that are disconnected from reality and serve only to bind the sect and excommunicate the unfaithful.
Isn't it amazing in that all the "pundits" always call out Republicans/conservatives as being the ones that go too far. I don't believe it was that group that believed/pushed Russia or the pee tapes. It was not that group that played at #Resist for 4 years. Not that group that called the Tea Party fascists and Nazis while allowing the Antifa brownshirts to riot and burn their cities for months and months or supported OWS for months and months.
Hey Dems, watch and maybe learn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
Howard equates questions about millions of life forms suddenly appearing out of nowhere with questions about millions of mail in ballots suddenly appearing out of nowhere.
Okay. I'll buy that.
Considering that all of the American citizens outside of metropolitan areas are effectively disenfranchised, there will/must be a change. One way or another.
"What’s extraordinary about the present moment is how far most Republicans have gone in endorsing beliefs that are disconnected from reality and serve only to bind the sect and excommunicate the unfaithful."
Not like "The Democrat Party, who wrongly - and immediately - accused [Trump] of not only cheating with Russian hookers, but (most heinously and too-incredible-to-believe-unless-you're-crazy) being a traitor just to pee on them in Russian hotel rooms for Putin."
That - and Good Ol' Boy, Jeff Sessions, working for the Russians - totally believable.
Clever. Do a historic election cheat and try and gaslight people into thinking that it's a common loser thought. Fuck you, cheaters. See you in court or see you in Hell.
Maybe she needs to understand reality. Reality is actually our perception of reality. Liberals have a different perception of reality than conservatives.
That's what the argument is really about. Whose perception of reality is the closest to actual reality?
Howard has given us the answer as to how all those Trump votes were switched to Biden votes by the voting software. They evolved! Science!
Politics is bad. It only divides people. We need to leave politics behind. We need to come together in unity. We have science and data and experts who know what to do. We just need to get out of their way and let them do it.
Like in China.
Have you seen the cool bridges they have over there? And they've lifted millions out of poverty. The people never complain or go on strike or demonstrate or want more than they have or wish things were different. They just go to work and do their jobs. That's how it should be. They only have one party because that's all they need.
Why can't we be like that?
RichAndSceptical said...
"That's what the argument is really about. Whose perception of reality is the closest to actual reality?"
Not true, because then it would be a mere matter of persuasion, and evidence - but persuasion, and evidence, don't work on Democrats.
So we're dealing with something else,...
I certainly wouldn't trust a Harvard professor of psychology to be in touch with "reality". Reality tends to be a manufactured commodity, witness Russian collusion, the Charlottesville hoax, and the numerous other hoaxes foisted upon an unwary population. A currently popular delusion in academia is that Biden will be motivated by "science". Delusions about BLM, Floyd, green energy, and many other things persist. We live in a world of dreams.
You guys have to say it. Don't make me say it. I've said it enough.
After all these years - and my guidance - you should've already been saying it, a long time ago,....
The universal belief in conspiracy theories has always been nibbling at the edges but now with social media the algorithms have driven many more people on both sides of the political fence into those delusions.
Fortunately you people are still a minority. Unfortunately social media amplifies minority voices well beyond their equitable representation of the population at Large.
It's canceled culture all the way down.
Fortunately as an ubermensch I am immune from the powers of persuasive mass delusion in modern ad hoc online group therapy sessions.
So we're dealing with something else,...
Dems are not just attacking their opponents or their opponents ideas. They are attacking politics itself. They want to eliminate it entirely. They see politics as impeding progress.
It's much more difficult to build, maintain and restore something than it is to tear it down.
The more damage you do to the system, the more you can point to the system and say, "Look, the system is broken, it's no good, it's failed, it's old. Let's raze it and we'll build a really great new one, but let's not get balled up in the details. First things first."
Fortunately as an ubermensch I am immune from the powers of persuasive mass delusion in modern ad hoc online group therapy sessions
Howard imagines himself standing on the Kremlin Wall, waving to the parade.
Howard will find himself in the execution block of the Lubyanka with a pistol pressed against the back of his head.
Bob Boyd: Republicans attack politics all the time by doing everything they can to make voting more difficult for people of color. The Democrats respond by increasing their efforts to get out the vote.
I think what is frustrating for Republicans is that Democrats actually get out and do more to win elections. Everyday I read how Democrats are quote" activists as if it's a bad thing. I find that someone ironic that people that pride themselves on bootstrapping your way to success and the free market economy have a problem with people who bootstrap themselves to win elections by activism.
The Republican excuse is always well worth too busy working real jobs to be activists because the Democrats are all on welfare and have government jobs and have lots of time.
Oprah Winfrey's main "Spiritual advisor" has always been Shirley MacLaine, though she also answers to former Presidential candidate Marianne Williamson, who famously counseled Hillary Clinton in the White House, after Bill cheated. And Arianna Huffington, who runs the MSIA ("Messiah") cult.
Oprah Winfrey made not one, but two quacks - Dr. Oz and Dr. Phil - into America's Doctors.
Oprah Winfrey campaigned on behalf of a President who - in true con artist fashion - has left his followers with no political legacy to speak of.
Oprah Winfrey was one of the earliest, and (thanks to "the Oprah Effect") most important promoters of the anti-vaccine movement now plaguing the entire world.
Oprah Winfrey was using her platform on American television, by 2008, to nationally promote the paranormal, psychic powers, new age spiritualism, conspiracy theories, quack celebrity diets, past life regression, angels, ghosts, alternative therapies like acupuncture and homeopathy, anti-vaccination, detoxification, vitamin megadosing, and virtually everything that will distract a human being from making useful progress and informed decisions in life.
Oprah Winfrey has recently nre-written history, executive producing a Netflix movie, turning the Central Park Five rapists into the "Exonerated Five" - knowing full-well they're not innocent. (Let's not forget her two days promoting the now convicted rapist, John of God and the murderer, James Arthur Ray).
Oprah Winfrey is re-writing history, again, executive producing a Netflix movie supporting the NYT's "1619" project.
But, somehow, I can't convince anyone she's anything but a force for good in the world.
That blows my mind.
Talk about people stuck in a harmful delusion,...
When will reality push back on Pinker? Good and hard.
A bunch of linguists wrote an open letter trying to get him cancelled over some tweets he made. He survived and it appears he learned nothing, but he wasn't really the target. His position in academia was not in peril, the goal was to make sure that the thousands of other professors and grad students who didn't have tenure and didn't have his high public profile would think twice before voicing an opinion.
There shouldn't have been an attempt to cancel him just because he talked about evidence for things that went against prog popular opinion then. He shouldn't be trying to shut up people who are voicing ideas about evidence that goes against prog popular opinion now.
Trump wins bigly everywhere in the country except four specific urban areas that changed election laws this year and violated their own state’s laws in order to game the system for Biden. The Democrats said they would “make sure” Trump lost, the makers of the voting machines vowed Trump would lose, and Joe said out loud that he had put together the largest coalition to commit voter fraud of any campaign ever. The officials in those same four states declared Trump would lose before they even counted the votes.
But anyone who denies it was a fair and free election is a conspiracy theorist? Good luck selling that.
But, somehow, I can't convince anyone she's anything but a force for good in the world.
I'm with you on this. I don't understand how she bamboozles so many people.
What an All-Star lineup! Howard, Crack, Tank, rhhardin, Laslo!
It’s like All-Star Jam Tuesday night session at the Joyous Lake with The Band. 2 to 3 songs, 10 minutes tops for each of the jammers.
I wasn’t gonna say anything, but if “you people” or “y’all” gonna take a turn, so am I.
Stealing this election was a year long psy-ops campaign. The CCP and the Dems were either deliberate or opportunistic allies in this psy-ops campaign.
Don’t focus just on the voting.
Howard said...
"Bob Boyd: Republicans attack politics all the time by doing everything they can to make voting more difficult for people of color."
Howard, I'll be 60 years old soon. I've been voting since I was 18, and never had a problem voting. I've never knew anyone black - not one - who had a problem voting. The only problem I've ever had, voting, was when I voted for McCain against Obama and the poll workers tried to make me feel bad for it.
That, and the other lies your side tells - on my behalf - don't speak well of you.
A bunch of cunning linguists couldn't lick a little Pinker. How anticlimactic.
I was incorrect to use the term Dems. It's not about the parties.
So let me rephrase.
Our ruling class is not just attacking their opponents or their opponents ideas. They are attacking politics itself. They want to eliminate it entirely. They see politics as impeding progress.
Trump wins bigly everywhere in the country except four specific urban areas that changed election laws this year and violated their own state’s laws in order to game the system for Biden.
This statement is simply a lie. You repeating it does not make it true.
Shouting Thomas said...
"Stealing this election was a year long psy-ops campaign....Don’t focus just on the voting."
If you ignore the channels the NewAge Movement exists in, you're insane.
Shorter Thomas Edsall: People have been complaining about it for years. Therefore it never happens. At least not when the candidate I voted for wins.
Get out of your own head, Crack. Every thing isn't about you or your experience of relative freedom in California.
This is considered bad behavior only when Democrats appear to have won.
It's always Those Other People who need to Stop Acting Like That.
Ok Bob. I agree with that. The global billionaires play both ends against the middle.
Crack, if it makes you feel any better, I have always had huge disdain for Oprah, ever since she claimed 20% of heterosexuals would be dead from AIDS by 1990.
You have indeed provided even more evidence of how loathsome she is, and my opinion of her has dropped even further accordingly.
And my estimation of you has increased with your acknowledgment that the Central Park Five were guilty as sin. I wouldn't have expected that.
Out of curiosity, what is your position on Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown?
Hey, I’ll give the other side’s real argument, since nobody has appeared to do that:
Fucking China is a reality! 1.4 billion people. Lotsa Nukes. Tons of money, most of which we gave to them by floating paper.
They built a huge military, and opened up their consumer markets with our bucks.
You really want to fight a war with these motherfuckers? Better to go along with the California commies and keep the Walmart well stocked.
Our ruling class is not just attacking their opponents or their opponents ideas. They are attacking politics itself. They want to eliminate it entirely. They see politics as impeding progress.
I disagree. The ruling class wants to make everything politics. It's far easy to brainwash and control people if everything is political. It's far easy to convince people that they can stick it to Trump by wearing a mask than it is to talk about the science of viral loads, etc.
And, yes, Crack is correct about the influence of airhead New Age BS in California.
New York State, too, particularly the Hudson Valley.
Bob Boyd said...
"I was incorrect to use the term Dems. It's not about the parties."
NewAge doesn't discriminate.
Dr. Oz is a Republican - but his wife is a NewAge homeopath in the TV industry. Conservative radio firebrand Michael Savage is a homeopath as well.
Chris Cuomo's wife sells "alternative remedies" out the back door - doesn't that make you trust his journalistic integrity?
The conservative QAnon is now sucking up the antivaccine movement run by who? Andrew Wakefield (now going with Elle MacPherson) Jim Carrey (Joe Biden on SNL) Jenny McCarthy (Jim's ex) Robert De Niro (he promoted the "Anti-vaxxed" film) Bill Maher (host of whatever show he has) and, of course, it's all being led by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr..
How do I know this stuff and y'all are still pondering what just happened?
Howard said...The universal belief in conspiracy theories has always been nibbling at the edges...Fortunately you people are still a minority.
At last count, 80% of Republicans and over 30% of Democrats think there was significant election fraud. The evidence for it is overwhelming and the resistance to providing plausible explanations for the anomalies is part of the reason it won't go away. It's been known since it was first proposed that mail-in voting without clean voter rolls and procedural safeguards was an open invitation to fraud.
You can argue about whether it was enough to change the outcome, but you can't argue it wasn't there.
What Trump voters seem to ignore is Trump was not that popular and the majority of folks were/are tired of the Trump shit show, These voters knew better than to show up at rallies (Herman Cain example) just show up and vote. Further what I don’t understand if this conspiracy was so vast and well coordinated with help from North Korea, and China why didn’t they rig the down ballot selection? Does this mean the Republicans also won because of fraud?
Howard said...
"Get out of your own head, Crack. Every thing isn't about you or your experience of relative freedom in California."
I can provide hard evidence for everything I'm saying. It's already been stated - this is, in part, a debate on the nature of reality - well, I've come more-than-well-prepared to defend it.
If you can prove ANYTHING I'm saying untrue, do your worst, or prepare to accept reality - before it consumes you.
I can't wait until the right starts its own gaslighting:
"None of the offenses you claim your various identity constituencies suffer actually occur - they're all conspiracy theories - for the simple reason that none of your identity distinctions actually exist. Yep: they're all conspiracy theories, every single distinction.
If these social distinctions don't even exist - how could they? they've all already been debunked as baseless conspiracy theories - how could they possibly suffer harm?
No, don't bother, we won't be having any conversation; everything you say is obviously the product of a delusion."
Shouting Thomas said...
"Fucking China is a reality!"
I haven't been there since 1980, but they were still pushing oxen in rice paddies. They have one aircraft carrier to our 18.
I see China as a problem, not a threat. We make the situation worse than it it ourselves.
Only Trump was willing to do different.
tim maguire: those poles resent represent beliefs that may be a mile wide but they're an inch deep. The nutters who post here regularly represent a distinct minority of conspiracy mongers those are two different types of people.
We can survive without China, China can't survive without us. The United States is too big to Rich too powerful to fail. For the last four years we have heard nothing but whining and complaining from our allies around the globe that the United States was backing off on its leadership. That's why they were so looking forward to Joe Biden returning so that the United States would once again impose its will on the world because they want us to be in charge.
Nobody ever got rich doubting the strength and resiliency of the United States.
You’re one of the nutters here, Howard.
I say that with as much affection as I can muster.
roesch/voltaire said...
"What Trump voters seem to ignore..."
After the last four years, no one should talk of what anyone but Democrats "seem to ignore". I mean, Bill and Hillary and Biden's BFF, Ed Buck, was literally killing blacks for two years and THAT party still has supporters.
What Democrat Party voters seem to ignore is they're running a dangerous cult.
Or saying "Grab 'em by the pussy" is equal to murder.
They did put Jim Jones of the murderous Peoples Temple in office as well. Killed 900 blacks with that one.
Red flags, People, red flags.
Bull shit.
When Obama won everybody said "wow, blacks and young people turned out like never before for a guy who received 98% positive coverage."
And most conservatives added "And John McCain sucks donkey balls. Fuck him."
When Mitt Romney lost most people thought "Romney did not attack when he should have. Fuck him for being a loser."
Explain this sequence, anybody:
1. Vote counting is said to be stopped and oversight is removed in multiple key states, nearly simultaneously.
2. Vote counting is continued without oversight putting the lie to #1.
3. All of Biden's spikes in votes occur a few hours later on those key states.
Nobody has tried to explain those known facts.
Some have tried to lie in furtherance of their earlier lies.
Howard said...For the last four years we have heard nothing but whining and complaining from our allies around the globe that the United States was backing off on its leadership.
Obama explicitly said that his foreign policy goal was to reduce America's leadership and to manage the country's decline. If someone says they are looking to his VP to fix that, they are either delusional or they are lying to you.
Qwinn said...
"My estimation of you has increased with your acknowledgment that the Central Park Five were guilty as sin. I wouldn't have expected that. Out of curiosity, what is your position on Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown?"
I think the right's gaslighted those two stories, focusing on trying to make dead kids into bigger threats than they were, and making their death's meaning unrecognizable. All we have to do is look at the further history of Zimmerman and we should KNOW Trayvon Martin didn't stand a chance. He was a kid. And Michael Brown also lived somewhere blacks couldn't win - anything - until he died. His guilt is irrelevant to me - as is the story of "hands up, don't shoot" - In both of those cases, it was America at it's worst, and the right didn't handle itself well at all.
I think the outlandish lengths the left's now will to go is, in part, because the right has been so obstanant to the truth, racially, it makes people desperate and hopeless, so what the fuck?
Might as well cheat,...
tim maguire said...
"Howard said...For the last four years we have heard nothing but whining and complaining from our allies around the globe that the United States was backing off on its leadership."
So fucking what? We're a young nation competing with old hands at running the world - by force.
When do Americans decide we get to chart our own destiny without answering to those conniving assholes?
r/v: I have no doubt whatsoever that Republican primaries have been rigged for decades in favor of the GOPe. Bush, McCain and Romney, favorites of the conservative movement? The farthest left Republicans in the party at each point in time? Please.
I also have no doubt that, once a leftist has infiltrated a Republican office, that the Left has engaged in voter fraud to keep them in. Leftist traitors in our midst and occupying a slot a real conservative would otherwise hold is every bit as useful to them, maybe more so, than an open Democrat.
That's why the endless litany of "You're wrong because even Republican X disagrees with you!" is so boring and predictable. We've been on to that game for years. But we get that its the only argument you have, and you'll keep flogging it forever.
I don't understand how the Fulton County water pipe "burst" that Mike Sylwester walked through isn't a bigger deal. NBC was reporting it all night- don't they want to find out why they were lied to?
I do actually understand, but it still makes my jaw drop. If people really want opponents to accept election results, they really have to do everything in their power to not let things be hinky.
The NewAge Movement can do ANYTHING and none of you are watching.
The Catholic Church probably envies them at this point.
Tim: This is the first hit when I googled your comment about Obama
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-states/2020-01-23/why-america-must-lead-again%3famp
After your side has consolidated all of the power, ONLY THEN is enough enough.
Crack: Disappointing. Martin was 5'11" to Zimmerman's 5'7" - some "kid" who "didn't stand a chance". I would've thought the physical evidence that Zimmerman's head was pounded repeatedly into the pavement to matter, but I guess not. And Brown was a monster and a thug, and yes that matters. Not sure what in all that from the Right constitutes "gaslighting", we just want at least SOME of these examples of horrible injustice to blacks to not come loaded with exculpatory evidence for the supposed evil white people that doesn't get buried every bit as much as Hunter's laptop. Oh well, at least we can agree on the CP5.
More academic pap for pinheads. I've lived through a bunch of elections and, unlike this one, most people actually think their candidate lost because the other candidate got more votes, popular or electoral.
The NYT excels at putting forth their pet professors and lawyers, etc., to tell us reality just ain't so. The real danger is that the pinheads believe them.
The probable reality here is that the "winner" didnt get more legal votes!
roesch/voltaire seems to believe Trump was unpopular.
But the most accurate pollster had him with 52% approval on Election Day.
The polls that were wildly wrong about Election Day had his approval in the low 50s but they were wildly wrong about everything else.
The MSM, which was wrong on nearly every front, is what roesch/voltaire pretends to believe.
I am being charitable with that interpretation.
---------
Howard believes blacks are too ill-equipped for modern life to secure IDs.
That is the sort of endemic racism blacks face from Democraticals.
I think Howard's views are absurd and think much more highly of my countrymen.
Crack, if you replace 'New Age' with 'Satan' I would certainly agree. New Age is merely one of Satan's tools.
Oh, and I do *very much* appreciate your putting lie to the "racist voter suppression" narrative, Crack. That's a big deal. Thank you.
Go read Crack's stuff. If you engage with him here and you haven't, you're probably wasting his time and yours. Seriously.
The Dems stole this fair and square, by leveraging everything they thought they'd need. The fact that they got Biden into office in the worst way possible illustrates the combination of hegemony and incompetence they bring to the party. It also shows what they think is most important and illustrates how they underestimate the proles. That's what will bite them in the ass.
Entropy brings pain.
Frankly, Crack, if you wanted to get more people to acknowledge current injustice toward blacks, you'd get a LOT of the Right on your side if, instead of defending thugs like Martin and Brown, you focused on false accusations of rape against innocent black men by women (both white and black) on college campuses, where the black men don't stand a chance in their rigged system. Is it because innocent white men also get destroyed in this way, and we can't be seen to oppose that too? Oh well.
So, is it the end of politics or the apotheosis of politics - politics über alles? In the culture, it's all politics all the time. Everything is identity and everything is grievance.
But in the world of government, we are supposed to "follow the science" and listen to the "experts" like Dr. Jill who will explain and resolve everything for us. And what can't be solved by "science" is a question of "rights" to be reserved for the courts. There's not much room for disagreement or politics in Bidenworld.
It's reminiscent of the 1960s world of the "end of ideology" with problems solved by intelligent machines programmed by men of compassion and vision. Of course that didn't work out so well. The country got disillusioned with all that as the decade went on. Even the left didn't like the rule of the liberal technocrat elite.
Trayvon Martin. We don't know how that confrontation with Zimmerman started or how it escalated. We'll never know. Given the way Zimmerman's been acting since the killing, he does seem like a hothead who may have started something on his own. Not the best hero or victim one could find.
The NewAge Movement can do ANYTHING and none of you are watching.
Yes, and no. None is a smaller number than you thought it was.
Go watch this Crack, I bet you'll enjoy it. NewAge is a religious order under the Cathedral. They're having a good run right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LUjUbikkk&ab_channel=TheDistributist
More amazing voter fraud testimony going on right now in PA. Current guy is testifying to massive fraud in Nevada. Over 19,000 people voted from out of state, not including any military ballots or students. Over 40,000 people voted twice. Nearly 2,000 dead voters. In total, over 130,000 fraudulent votes identified in Nevada. That number is not derived from estimates based on statistical anomalies, but actual comparisons of lists via name, date of birth and addresses.
Staggering mountains of evidence, all being ignored in service to the Deep State.
This testimony is being broadcast live on Newsmax right now.
Oh wait, I don't think this is a PA hearing, I think this is on Capitol Hill.
You probably get 67% of US buying into some parts of new age happy horseshit. However, vegetarians are stuck at 5%. they're able to have very good market penetration and they're able to get high percentage of people to spend some money but they're only converting a very small number. That's the way the world always works.
Panic sells. It's like multi level marketing. So many people like to be the sheep to be shorn. Thank you Sir, may I have another?
Holy fuck. Krebs is testifying now. And he's claiming that everyone handling elections should be congratulated because of the great job they've done assuring every voter that the election went smoothly, and things are so much better now because when he took over in 2017, we'd just had our elections compromised by THE RUSSIANS.
Firing squad nominee.
Quinn's right, we are seeing a lot of staggering but no results. Same as it ever was.
"Howard believes blacks are too ill-equipped for modern life to secure IDs.
That is the sort of endemic racism blacks face from Democraticals.
I think Howard's views are absurd and think much more highly of my countrymen."
Well. He lives in Vermont or someplace like that where they don't have black people to interact with. he has to go by what he sees on TV. He's never been exposed to an urban environment.
I agree with Quinn 9.22 about college sexual assault accusations.
You seem to ignore real problems and buy the "systemic racism" bullshit. But you and I don't agree on much.
Fortunately you people are still a minority. Unfortunately social media amplifies minority voices well beyond their equitable representation of the population at Large.
We are certainly a minority of accepted ballots in the election. Your confidence that you represent "the population at Large." is amusing.
Fernandinade@7:26AM/
Err, iirc, the complete Orwell quote goes: "Some ideas are so absurd that only an intellectual could possibly believe in such things--no ordinary person could ever BE such a fool!"
I'm sorry I just don't have time to acknowledge all of my fans. Just know that your patronage is appreciated.
“Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously.” Chesterton.
This is apparently now true of “with education.”
The reality is that we have a system that has no way to audit elections in time to do anything about it, even when fraud is huge and obvious.
We don't just "have" this. We made it this way, on purpose, over many years, but with the most pernicious innovations being very recent ones in the name of COVID era poll access. Maybe the silver lining of the great Biden heist of 2020 is that it is so blatant, it will give some impetus to create space to change the system.
This Senate hearing is insane. Guy testifies to 130,000 directly provable fraudulent votes in Nevada. No questions to him.
Put up Krebs. "The election was secure!" Questions: "Mr. Krebs, have you heard any credible evidence of fraud?" Krebs: "No, of course not, didn't you hear the AG?" Senator: "Clearly there's no evidence."
Oh. It's from the NYT! I despise, detest, and TOTALLY distrust the NYT! (The WaPoo, too. And the network TV.)
Just to clarify, when I referred to “most people” at 9:09, I was not referring to the braying asses of the ruling elite.
Howard said...
"Get out of your own head, Crack. Every thing isn't about you or your experience of relative freedom in California."
Shorter Howard: You aint black!
To find the real, to be stripped of every fiction but one, the fiction of an absolute.
Reality IS pushing back. That's why the Dems are so upset
The NYTimes is a propaganda outlet.
iowan2 said...
Simple election law will stop all of this
Very simply, require the 1)Number of votes cast (not counted) by 10:00am the morning after the election 2) partial results not released until 10:00 am the morning after election.
FL reports every day during early voting all the ballots received, and all the people who've early voted.
Election Day, FL reports every 20 minutes who's voted in every precinct.
Combine that with not taking absentee ballots after the polls have closed, it makes fraud very difficult.
Shock of shocks, Trump went from winning FL by 1.2% in 2016 to 3.4% in 2020.
Yet another reason why we find Biden's "victory" incredible (as in "lacking in credibility"): the fewer the chances for fraud, the better Trump did.
tl;dr: You don't need to wait until 10 AM the next day
what a great actress Vivian lee was! Amazing in Streetcar and GWTW, among others. Although, my favorite role of her's is "Mrs. Hamilton".
In other news, RINO traitor Mittens was on CNN calling for everyone to fall in line and support Joe Biden because "There is no fraud and Biden was legitimately elected". LOL! what a liar and fraud Mitt Romney is. He doesn't care if he lies as long as it hurts Trump and allows him to soak up some Liberal MSM Love. I've never understood how this liar always gets tagged as "moral Mitt Romney" "A good man". He's not a good man. He's a liar, and he's lied to the public about his policies, and lied about being a Republican, and lied about Trump. He was considering becoming Biden's HHS secretary, but I guess Biden couldn't get that past the Leftists who control him.
The reality is that we have a system that has no way to audit elections in time to do anything about it, even when fraud is huge and obvious.
Sure we do. They just were allowed to refuse to do it.
See GA, and auditing the ballot security envelopes. There are multiple affidavits submitted saying the people say unfolded "absentee ballots" being counted. As you can't mail back a FL absentee ballot without folding it in half, these are clearly fraudulent. A count of the signed envelopes, compared to the number of "absentee ballots" counted, would be revealing.
So revealing they refuse to do it.
The fact that they're allowed to refuse is a failure of will to deal with vote fraud, not a failure of ability
Hilarious, the Democrat Senators have NO questions for anyone alleging fraud. The ONLY questions they have is for Krebs, and every one of those is to get him to reassert that there is no fraud.
The reality is that we have a system that has no way to audit elections in time to do anything about it, even when fraud is huge and obvious.
In any event, the reality is simpler than that:
If you block poll watchers from being able to monitor and object to anything and everything the poll workers are doing, the election is fraudulent, with no way to recover.
The proper response to Detroit refusing to let poll watchers in should have been to immediately shut down all counting there, and invalidate every single ballot that was there while the watchers were excluded.
The proper response to Philly refusing to let poll watchers be in a position to actually watch what the poll workers were doing should have been to immediately shut down all counting there, and invalidate every single ballot that was handled in any way while the watchers were blocked.
If you're not going to enforce poll watching, then you're not interested in honest elections. That's not a failure of the law, it's a failure of the judicial system to enforce the law.
The voters of Detroit and Philly were made victims of the vote counters, and the courts just didn't care
Every single Democrat Senator has completely ignored every piece of testimony as to provable, prosecutable election fraud, and instead engaged in 100% appeals to Krebs' authority. Literally no other response.
And at no time was Krebs asked to directly comment on the presented evidence. His entire testimony has been to mindlessly repeat "nothing to see here", without explaining in any way what was wrong with the presented evidence.
Blogger Howard said...
I'm sorry I just don't have time to acknowledge all of my fans. Just know that your patronage is appreciated.
Your "fans" Howard are about as numerous as the votes by living humans for your addled condidate.
Howard said...
Bob Boyd: Republicans attack politics all the time by doing everything they can to make voting more difficult for people of color. The Democrats respond by increasing their efforts to get out the vote.
Typical racist thought. Blacks aren't capable of doing things the way whites and Asians do- things must be made easier for them. WHo cares about fraud!? It must be easier for blacks to vote than anyone else, else they'll be disenfranchised!
It would be vastly better if Edsall and other writers at the Times would stop with the business of trying to con us into believing that this was a fair election, or even that, yes, there was cheating, but strictly de minimis and it didn’t affect the ultimate outcome. This sort of crap insults our intelligence. Edsall (and Althouse) would do better just to stand up and say “Of course this was a stolen election, but with judicial stonewalling we’ve made it stick through the Electoral College voting so suck it up, Buttercup.” Now that would be honest, and demonstrate a degree of integrity from the left of center that has been sorely lacking.
Unproven theory that I haven't heard advanced: Passing out blank ballots to people likely to vote for your candidate of will get results. I'd like to say regardless of whether they can legally vote or not, but honestly I don't think that matters.
I don't think the GOP did it, pretty sure the Dems did. I'm also pretty sure they did it legally, but the GOP didn't. Who invented 'ballot harvesting'? Dems were prepared to take advantage of the situation and they did.
Reliable, sectarian, liberal NYT projects with an em-pathetic appeal after colluding to conduct a 16 trimester spread of disinformation and cover-up of Obama/Biden/Clinton spying, obstructing, and colluding with parties foreign and domestic.
It's just bullshit, piled on bullshit, piled on bullshit.
A person can believe anything they want if they never challenge their ideas by looking hard at them. This election is an amazingly good example of that. There seem to be hundreds of things that are radically wrong with this election. To believe that this election was legitimate you have to ignore -- to never even seriously think about -- those hundreds of things.
And that is exactly what I see people doing.
Trump is nice compared to what comes next.
I, for one, look forward to the 2022 US elections, which will have about 400,000,000 votes cast. Hey, the Republicans can play ballot creation, ballot harvesting, ballot multicounting, and ballot vote tally falsification, too. May the biggest fraud win!
Trump is nice compared to what comes next.
He has been extraordinarily patient, measured, and reserved in exercising liberal license to indulge progressive intrigue.
"To believe that this election was legitimate you have to ignore -- to never even seriously think about -- those hundreds of things."
The only people around here that I think this applies to is our hostess and J. Farmer. Their worldview and self image is completely and utterly dependent on the notion that the "far left" and "Trumpist right" are just mirror images of each other, which they can stand far above and feel morally and intellectually superior to. If the "far left" complained of voter fraud in previous elections with no basis, and the "far right" is complaining now, that can also have no basis. Because of this weakness in their thinking, the perpetual leftist tactic of projection of their own crimes onto the Right is 100% effective against them 100% of the time.
The rest of the lefties around here know the fraud happened, and are covering for it because they like the outcome. As one of them told us, "Fraudulent or not, if Trump loses, it's a win for me."
"What’s extraordinary about the present moment is how far most Republicans have gone in endorsing beliefs that are disconnected from reality and serve only to bind the sect and excommunicate the unfaithful."
I am rather surprised that Pinker said that, and I wonder what the context might have been. Pinker is usually rather level-headed, for a flaming liberal. He is aware, for example, that your sex is determined by your chromosomes, and cannot be changed by surgical mutilation.
My own view on the massive fraud in the recent election is somewhat colored by the fact that I live in Oregon. Democrats always win my state in a massive landslide, and I am reduced to hoping that my fellow Americans are able to deprive my shithead neighbors of their desired outcome. Thus any pious claims I might make about wishing to see "every legal vote counted" ring a bit hollow. I would like to see the good Republicans of rural Pennsylvania kick the Commie bitch shit right out of the vermin occupying Portland.
I have challenged Leftists for years - both personally and on these comment boards - to identify a single individual who has been unable to vote because they did not have a government issued ID.
I'm still waiting.
Although of late it has been occurring to me, that we have had vote-by-mail here in Oregon since 1999, and we have had rule by Democrats here in Oregon since 1999. Interesting coincidence. Perhaps I've been too hard on my neighbors.
Jupiter is correct about Pinker. He has gotten into trouble with the left for such serious crimes as using gender terms corresponding to reality. His rebuttals to Stephen Jay Gould put him on the side denying the "New Soviet Man" of the behaviorists. "The Blank Slate" is still pertinent and now is supported by genetics.
Maybe he just didn't like Trump.
I confess I was alarmed when I learned two-thirds of Democrats believe Russia literally hacked voting machines in 2016 to steal the election from Hillary Clinton. (The Economist/YouGov Poll: Two-thirds of Democrats believe it is "definitely true" or "probably true" that "Russia tampered with vote tallies in order to get Donald Trump elected.”)
I feared there was a chance this would lead to armed conflict — either war with Russia or civil war in America.
But I’ve since come to realize Democrats don’t literally believe what they say they believe.
Instead it falls into the category of “Stupid shit you say to salve the sting of disappointment you feel when you realize your guy lost the election.”
You know, like 2020 Republicans and the Kraken.
In a few ways, this election fraud is like the battle for abolition in the 1860's. The wrong needing corrected required such an enormous remedy that just refusing to face it was the easier course. The obviousness of the wrong in both cases had little power to lead to a responsible, even if painful, remedy. Both were of huge national scope splitting the nation into two camps. Another similarity was the voices saying that it was wrong, but we just have to accept it. The final similarity is that the Democrats were on the side of continuing and even protecting the wrong. Let's hope that all this does not lead to a final similarity that became inevitable when the reasonable and peaceful solutions were deemed too difficult.
Rand Paul just put Krebs in his place.
Krebs is a hack and the Democrats on that committee are just douchey shills.
Nobody is accepting any of this.
For those who believe the left respects democracy as much as the right, that delusion will become more and more obvious as the next generation leaves behind it's exceptional inheritance for leftism and totalitarianism.
Today's example:
"Cornell University’s student government removed two executive committee representatives who voted against a resolution to disarm the police at the Ivy League campus.
The Student Assembly on Dec. 8 removed Annie Gleiberman for voting against a resolution to disarm the university's police department, saying she condoned "acts of racism, physical aggression, and emotional violence" by voting against the resolution.
And when a fellow executive rep, Morgan Baker, said she wouldn’t vote for it either — becoming a procedural block because a unanimous vote was needed — members temporarily removed her to get to a unanimous tally, The Washington Free Beacon reported."
Why even have a vote? That's what we will all be asking across the country.
Isn't (or wasn't) Hillary all in on Russian collusion hoax - encouraging it even 3 years after the election? Why should the Trumpists play nice?
Ah, my mistake. Earnest Prole is definitely in the company and our hostess in what i said earlier (I'll repeat it here for convenience):
The only people around here that I think this applies to is our hostess and J. Farmer. Their worldview and self image is completely and utterly dependent on the notion that the "far left" and "Trumpist right" are just mirror images of each other, which they can stand far above and feel morally and intellectually superior to. If the "far left" complained of voter fraud in previous elections with no basis, and the "far right" is complaining now, that can also have no basis. Because of this weakness in their thinking, the perpetual leftist tactic of projection of their own crimes onto the Right is 100% effective against them 100% of the time.
Read Earnest Prole's last post, and tell me how it doesn't fit *exactly* into what I said above.
Reality IS pushing back and that’s why we see Proud Boys in the streets of DC wearing yellow and black kilts like crazed bumble bees burning banners that hang on DC churches. Even here in these comments threads there is a crack in the Trump wall with a few formerly loyal Trump commenters. It’s been interesting watching it happen.
Oh I had a good chuckle when I read that the manufacturer of those yellow and black kilts donated money from the sales of the kilts the Proud Boys bought to The NAACP.
Proud Boys aren't racist. Some of their leaders are black.
What the Proud Boys are proud of is Western Civilization.
Racist leftists think that Western Civilization only belongs to and only includes white people.
And if you disagree, you ain't black.
While Inga is running her fucking mouth about the Proud Boys, take a good like at her people.
Inga's People
This is not 4 miles from my house. I know it's four miles because it used to be the route I ran. Used to be. This picture was taken across the street from where I used to pick up my dry cleaning. Used to.
These thugs have been marauding around Olympia for months now, and it's only getting worse.
So shut your ass about the Proud Boys and own the fact these are YOUR people.
This is the war YOU are starting. Own it. All of it.
Howard said...
Bob Boyd: Republicans attack politics all the time by doing everything they can to make voting more difficult for people of color. The Democrats respond by increasing their efforts to get out the vote.
You are such racist pigs.
Every functional adult in the US needs State issued photo ID. Requiring people to show State issued photo ID in order to vote, and making it easy / free for low income people to get said ID, is a win-win for everyone, but those who wish to commit vote fraud.
As for the rest of hte rules, apparently you and Bob Boyd think that following simple directions (sign the back of this form, and then write your address) or planning ahead (you must register x weeks before the election) are capabilities lacking in "people of color".
What's it like, being such a disgusting racist pig?
Joe Smith said...
After your side has consolidated all of the power, ONLY THEN is enough enough.
12/16/20, 9:07 AM
You would think that would be the case but you would be wrong. For them, enough is never enough. All is not enough. EVERYTHING is not enough. Once everyone constantly sings their praise with earnestness due to actually believing it in their hearts and souls (a. la. 1984) that still won't be enough.
As a movie line goes (Tombstone I believe): A man like Ringo has got a great big hole, right in the middle of himself. And he can never kill enough, or steal enough, or inflict enough pain to ever fill it.
The Democrats are "Ringo".
Explain to me why counting stopped in 4-5 states in predominantly democrat controlled locales.
Explain to me why republican monitors were forcibly removed from the counting areas.
Explain to me ( by running an experiment ) if the Dominican machines are trustworthy.
Instead it’s:
Don’t have standing, it’s too late, summary rejection of signed affidavits and analysis.
And censoring of criticism.
Yea, it’s on the up and up all right. The democrats have stolen an American election for president.
RESIST
Qwinn said...
"Crack: Disappointing."
If you called me out just to agree with you, then you should've expected that.
"Martin was 5'11" to Zimmerman's 5'7" - some "kid" who "didn't stand a chance"."
I had a nephew who was bigger than I am and the world treated him like a monster, too. You guys should consider the effect of such thinking. Kids are still kids, and deserve a chance to mature, before you destroy them for making it to the age of being confused teens. My nephew is dead already.
"I would've thought the physical evidence that Zimmerman's head was pounded repeatedly into the pavement to matter, but I guess not."
You guys think anything you want to matter, should matter, so you put parameters around what you think is important, and declare everything else a heresy. Democrats are good at doing that now. Like I said, they learned how to cheat from you.
"And Brown was a monster and a thug, and yes that matters."
Brown was a kid in a tough place, being a tough kid. He, too, would've grown out of it if given a chance. America is a cruel place to crow up. That whites, who created it, don't take responsibility for it is, to me, shameful. Their patriotism is compartmentalized.
"Not sure what in all that from the Right constitutes "gaslighting", we just want at least SOME of these examples of horrible injustice to blacks to not come loaded with exculpatory evidence for the supposed evil white people that doesn't get buried every bit as much as Hunter's laptop."
Trying to absolve yourself of the responsibility you hold for what you've created is your first mistake as a citizen. That the country has gone to Hell with such examples is no mistake. You want "Hands up, don't shoot" to overwhelm the decades of injustice the whites of Michael Brown's community inflicted on the blacks. You want the whites to mean nothing. I disagree - strongly.
I am an American. I take responsibility for ALL OF THIS. I didn't duck when blacks said I side with racists and Trump, and I've never shied away from saying the Republican Party is as racist as the day is long. I know where I live. You try to imagine yourself, and your shitty ideas about other Americans, as better than you are. I'm going to always deal with the reality.
"Oh well, at least we can agree on the CP5."
I think you just want to find blacks to dislike, because you feel no more connection to the country than Democrats do the people of "Flyover Country."
You're not a good person.
mockturtle said...
"Crack, if you replace 'New Age' with 'Satan' I would certainly agree. New Age is merely one of Satan's tools."
Meaning, it's still stupid Christianity, run amok.
Why 21st century humans want to believe the rantings of pre-1st century madmen from the Middle East will baffle me to my grave.
Qwinn said...
"Oh, and I do *very much* appreciate your putting lie to the "racist voter suppression" narrative, Crack. That's a big deal. Thank you."
You're welcome, but no need:
I call 'em as I see 'em.
mezzrow said...
"The Dems stole this fair and square,..."
I LOVE that.
Qwinn said...
"Frankly, Crack, if you wanted to get more people to acknowledge current injustice toward blacks, you'd get a LOT of the Right on your side if, instead of defending thugs like Martin and Brown, you focused on false accusations of rape against innocent black men by women (both white and black) on college campuses, where the black men don't stand a chance in their rigged system."
Your obsession with "thugs" is upsetting. Sorry black people aren't shrink-wrapped for your convenience.
"Is it because innocent white men also get destroyed in this way, and we can't be seen to oppose that too? Oh well."
American women call themselves "goddesses" now and you pussies say nothing. Figure it out.
mezzrow said...
"Go watch this Crack, I bet you'll enjoy it."
You bet wrong: too slow and long-winded.
Greg The Class Traitor said...
"Reality IS pushing back. That's why the Dems are so upset"
Yep.
Bill Whittle is closer to the mark, on how the election was stolen, than anything I see here or in the news.
BTW - mezzrow, this was a video I enjoyed.
What's it like, being such a disgusting racist pig?
Dion't expect an answer from the party of slavery and Jim Crow.
Qwinn said...
"Crack: Disappointing."
Martin and Brown grew up in places where that is how you survive.
We need to admit that there are place in this country where most kids cannot grow up without being criminals. There is always the sheltered one off that escapes that everyone focuses on or the star athlete. But focusing on them is garbage.
We are all in a place where we are criminals Qwinn. Believing in open honest elections is about to be a crime.
At minimum you need to feel empathy with Martin and Brown or nothing will get better.
@ Greg The Class Traitor re 2:11pm
You're confused. Howard is not quoting me. He is arguing with me. I did not say that which is in italics, Howard did and I do not agree with it. Don't lump us in together. Read the thread before you go calling people names.
You're wrong to call me a racist. I doubt Howard is a racist either. He's just wrong.
I admit that the Democrat Party out working the Republic Party must seem unfair, like stealing candy from a baby.
"What’s extraordinary about the present moment is how far most Republicans have gone in endorsing beliefs that are disconnected from reality and serve only to bind the sect and excommunicate the unfaithful."
I never got the 'Team' concept of politics. Dem/Rep. Elephant/Donkey. Red/Blue. It's like marketers designed the script for the News Media to promote. It's almost like there's a Bell Curve of intelligence, and the marketers target the sweet spot at the top of the curve.
Some say Satan rules this world. Well...Jesus said that. Those on the right side of the curve can get those on the left side to get credit cards and pay 19% on their immediate gratification balance. What does it benefit them when they gain the world, and lose their souls.
We're here for a short time.
Achilles said...
"Martin and Brown grew up in places where that is how you survive. "
I had my lunch money stolen, every day, before I learned how to fight. Once you get there, and realize you can now take other people's money (and no one's going to do anything unless they do) that's when you have a choice to make about life. It can take years to sort that out. And - again - that's only because America made it this way. I've lived elsewhere. I know this.
"We need to admit that there are place in this country where most kids cannot grow up without being criminals."
Oh, bullshit. We need to admit that this country was settled by criminals.
"There is always the sheltered one off that escapes that everyone focuses on or the star athlete. But focusing on them is garbage."
You guys believe myths, even with blacks around to correct them - that's also very much like the Democrat Party.
"We are all in a place where we are criminals Qwinn. Believing in open honest elections is about to be a crime."
The much is true. And whites played a MAJOR part in that, by starting the nation off, being unfair to people. Now that - and the resentment it fostered - are part of the national DNA.
"At minimum you need to feel empathy with Martin and Brown or nothing will get better."
AMEN.
Trump flipped the lights on in the kitchen at 3am and we all got to watch the DC cockroaches scurry.
But we are the ones disconnected from reality.
OK boomer.
The cockroaches like it better when the lights are off.
I just love being lectured by arrogant bubble-dwelling know-it-alls about the nature of reality, don’t you?
Who wouldn’t?
It’s such an attractive side of the Left.
Crack MC. After 5 decades living amongst, and working with blacks, I confess that I moved to the whitest place on earth to take a breath...to get a way from the emotionalism, the instant gratification, the sudden and unexpected violence of Africans. (Except Nigerians)
You can make the point that Africans didn't ask to come here, but your tribal ancestors wanted to get rid of your ancestors and gave them up to the Muslim slave traders.
Look at the trajectory of Africans in America. It is one of triumph.
At the moment the Declaration of Independence was printed, there was an obvious disconnect. 'All men are created equal.' Uh, what about the institution of slavery that had existed for thousands of years? The moment this American experiment started, there was that friction. Everybody else in the world did it, but this American thing was different.
Your ancestors were taught to read the Bible. Your tribal people saw your story in Exodus. They prayed to God to 'swing low, sweet chariot", and God answered those prayers.
An entire continent went to war against itself to make it right.
Africans in America are now preferred for Educational and Employment opportunities.
This is not your world though. Someone who was bullied, and learned to fight, might have chosen to protect the weaker, instead of 'taking other people's money'.
This is not your world. Your world is elsewhere. Find it. I found mine, away from people like you. (Most of the time I enjoy your posts, and we would probably be friends, but I can hear you are not happy.)
It's not my job to make you happy. BTW, we got black people here. They came here for the same reason I did.
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