"... a Washington Post-ABC News poll finds.... Americans’ confidence in police appears shaken after a wave of national protests following Floyd’s killing. Compared with 2014, fewer Americans say they are confident that police are adequately trained to avoid using excessive force. Meanwhile, more people say recent police killings of black people are 'a sign of broader problems' in police conduct. The share of Americans saying that black people and other minorities do not receive equal treatment in the criminal justice system has risen by 15 percentage points from 2014 — and this year marks the first time a majority of whites has held this view.... Almost 6 in 10 white people, along with just over half of Hispanic people, oppose removing statues of Confederate soldiers, while over three-quarters of black people support their removal. Opposition is even greater to the removal of public statues honoring former U.S. presidents who enslaved people, with 68 percent of Americans opposed and 25 percent in support of their removal. But while at least 7 in 10 white and Hispanic people are opposed, 6 in 10 black Americans support removing these statues. Half of Americans oppose renaming military bases currently named after Confederate generals, while 42 percent support the changes. Once again there is a significant partisan split, with 81 percent of Republicans and 50 percent of independents opposed and 66 percent of Democrats in favor. A majority of Americans ages 50 and older are opposed to any renaming, while a plurality of those under 50 support the change."
WaPo reports.
So 25% of Americans support taking down statues of George Washington?
The top-rated comment over there is: "If a crowd of citizens decides to pull down a racist statue, I'm all for it. After all, it was probably a handful of racist white guys who decided to put it up in the first place. So don't act like democracy is in tatters because a hateful symbol has fallen."
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81 comments:
Do they support the Black Lives Matter movement? Or do they support the idea (fact) that black people's lives matter?
It's an important distinction. Because the movement is a whole 'nother thing.
Also in the poll taken about Democracy, when asked about what to have for dinner, 2 wolves thought lamb was good. 1 sheep thought lasagna would be preferable. But hey- Democracy.
Wow. Talk about your non-sequiturs.
Those handful of white guys were elected to make those decisions.
A majority of Americans say they support the Black Lives Matter movement.
A majority of Americans say they will vote for someone other than Donald Trump.
Would a majority of Americans also say they don't trust the polling?
I'm more than a little skeptical of the spectacle. The timing is just too good for it to be anything other than a political exercise designed to help Democrats win and I reject the lessons that are supposed to become of it- they will all be gone by mid-November...
I don't have a problem with pulling down statues. The confederates were erected to help heal the nation after a long war. Now ya wanna pull them all down fine. Just don't put up bad art or new ones to 'heroes' that are a stick in the eye to people you don't like, though I suspect that's the idea....
The polling on "Defund the Police" and desecration of the Virgin Mary must be terrible if they're having to sanitize the questions this heavily.
If a crowd of citizens decides to go after a criminal, I'm all for it. After all, a group of people are better able to handle it than the police. So don't act like democracy is in tatters because of a little vigilante justice.
The issue is, who decides which statues are "racist"?
If I "feel" the Martin Luther King statue is somehow "racist" you are OK with me spray painting it and pulling it down?
OK.
I didn't make the rules. You did. Enjoy!
The poll is full of inaccuracies.
Is there really an increase police killing black people? I have serious doubts. And a public dialogue is forbidden. To doubt the premise of question is racist.
Just one statistic I heard on the radio provided some insight. 70% of 911 calls, in one city, were made by blacks. That means 70% of already bad situations involve blacks. That means comparisons to white/black altercations cant be compared to % of population but rather % of police contacts. That would skew the data to tell us Whites are more vulnerable than blacks.
My dad had "the talk" with me. It included an observation that very little good and moral activities happened after midnight. MY CHOICE, to "run with that crowd" signified my ability to take responsibility for my actions. A call at 2 in the morning would probably not move my dad to action, unless medical care was called for. He also told me to obey police. Follow their orders explicitly. While I might be able to out drive the cops in a chase, its impossible to out run radios. If the authorities get wrong, we would work it out within the system. Shut up. Obey. Of course my dad was only trying to keep me alive. He had no desire to sacrifice life in a stupid attempt to take a political stand.
No one wants to talk about the demands.
There is an election in November. City councils, mayors, state legislators, governors, standing for election. Pick your issues. Make your choices.
But no. Riots are the answer for Democrats, because they can't advance the desires of the people. All these cities have been Democrat Party Rule for decades.
Look at Mayor Lightfoot. She is installed as the Mayor of Chicago. The very best, most able leader to advance the Democrat agenda. The. Very. BEST. The very best, murders 100 blacks a month. That has to be the goal, because nothing is happening to change the trajectory.
Most people didn't care about statues, as Charles Barkley said, "Scenery". The whole issue was ginned up by a few for partisan political reasons.
That quote kinda misses the point about George Washington.
I always say, if you want an insightful and reasoned opinion, look at a poll.
Is there really an increase police killing black people
No. Police used to shoot people in the back who were running away, now that's a big no-no.
former U.S. presidents who enslaved people
That would be none of the Presidents; the slaves in the US were enslaved black Africans and Arabs.
It's a shame that people have largely ruined education and much of the legal system to mollify blacks, especially since it seems to have had the opposite effect.
Why are we talking about statues?
Put up or shut up. Go straight for the Constitution.
If we can live under a system of laws designed by slave owners, why would we have a problem with statues?
The WaPo comments section is a cesspool. But it hasn't yet reached the depths of NYT Slack channels.
"If a crowd of citizens decides to pull down a racist statue, I'm all for it. After all, it was probably a handful of racist white guys who decided to put it up in the first place. So don't act like democracy is in tatters because a hateful symbol has fallen."
What an incoherent statement. Rule by unelected "crowds" in a country of hundreds of millions is as much the antithesis of democracy as rule by an autocrat. That and that this is the top rated comment is ample proof that democracy IS in tatters for the writer and those who upvoted this frightening nonsense. For every statue razed, I'd like to compare the crowds of that which was at its dedication to that which tore it down. Which group more deserved the label crowd and which more deserved the label handful?
No we don't. I don't support a Soros funded Marxist group. I stand with blacks that are normal Americans...and babies that are getting murdered by the thousands for their parts from Planned Parenthood. I refuse to bow down to the Communist wannabe's like DeBlasio....
Okay then I get to choose what “hateful symbols” I destroy too. Deal?
First up, any graffiti or public mural depicting white people in an unflattering light, as I see it. Seems fair.
To heck with pulling down statues of Confederate generals that's small potatoes. I say it's time all those racist Confederate States changed their names. If your going to remove any sign of the Confederacy let's do it right.
A racist statue
And are they in favor of destroying the nuclear family? BLM is.
> soros funded
Bad news bro
It's corporate supported
Go to AT&T twitter
Full of thumbs up
Corporate money
And corporate rules
We lost this culture battle already
I support the Bureau of Land Management. I do not support the Burn Loot and Murder movement. I hope that clears up my poll answer.
Unknown said...
> soros funded
Bad news bro
It's corporate supported
Go to AT&T twitter
Full of thumbs up
Corporate money
And corporate rules
We lost this culture battle already
7/21/20, 8:11 AM
Yes...Corporations that lefties hate so much are funding their hate....I won't bow down to them either...You seem like you already have. Too bad.
So 25% of Americans support taking down statues of George Washington?
Yet another daily argument against public schools.
"presidents who enslaved people..."
If they inherited them, or bought already enslaved slaves, did they "enslave" them?
Does the PC locution really help in avoiding "slave owners"?
How much ambiguity and historical inaccuracy does the rewording introduce?
Time for Althouse to do one of her famed word analyses.
Someone calls you from a number you don't recognize (or is blocked). Do you answer the call? Suppose you do answer and the person calling says he's conducting a poll. You don't know this person. You have no reason to believe he is who he claims. He has your phone number. Do you answer his questions at all? If you do, do you tell the truth, especially if you're planning on voting Republican? Remember, this is the age of doxxing. They have your number, so they also likely have the means to find out where you live and a lot of other information about you. So again I ask, do you tell the truth?
We'll see how the election turned out in November. My gut feeling right now is that the polls are seriously wrong and Trump is going to win big time. I've heard talk of "secret voters" - people who are going to vote for Trump but aren't telling anyone. That's a real thing. I seriously doubt most Americans are supporting what is happening with the riots and BLM. I doubt most Americans are in favor of tearing down the system and turning to socialism. Perhaps I'm wrong. We'll know more after the election.
I believe in checks and balances, not just between the branches of government but also between political beliefs. I think we need a sane and competent Democrat party just as much as we need the Republicans to balance against them. Today's Democrat party has gone off the rails. The only hope for them to come back to sanity is for them to suffer a massive defeat up and down the ticket. Then, whatever grown ups that still exist in the party can use that defeat to regain control and put things on a better footing. It happened in 1972 and again in 1984 when they suffered massive defeats. It needs to happen again this year.
We will find out in about, oh, 3 months and 13 days whether a majority of Americans support "Black Lives Matter."
This kind of story serves to remind the speculatively inclined that it might be a good moment to check the election futures markets.
I'm sure the pollsters informed people that both ANTIFA and BLM are part of the George Soros Hydra before they answered. Right?
Was there a poll question along the lines of: “It is appropriate for city governments to consider removing public statues based on their views on the people depicted, but inappropriate for mobs to deface or destroy statues for political reasons. Do you: a) strongly agree, b) agree somewhat, c) have no opinion, d) disagree somewhat, e) strongly disagree?”
thousand currents, susan rosenberg, but he provided the seed money,
“ Meanwhile, more people say recent police killings of black people are 'a sign of broader problems' in police conduct.”
How did they feel about BLM murdering 8 year-old girls? Perhaps the WaPo neglected to ask. Maybe next time....
I'm confused by which nouns and adjectives are capitalized in that piece. Seems pretty inconsistent.
were enslaved BY black Africans
“So 25% of Americans support taking down statues of George Washington?”
It’s a perfectly safe bet that 25% of Americans have no clear idea of who George Washington was. I exaggerate not at all.
Wa_Po is white. Tear it down.
I don't get the confederate statue thing. Losers aren't supposed to have this right. It'd be like us having let the Germans erect and keep statues of Hitler and his assorted generals after WWII, or allowing the Japanese to keep memorials honoring their bombing of Pearl Harbor.
Post Ferguson, there was a story that a community chose to remove a statue and put it in storage because people had taken offense to it. The anticipated cost was $500,000. Ultimately they got a deal and it only cost $350,000 but that is still a ridiculous amount of money. Most people have no idea what statue is where and wouldn't care if they did. If you do, lobby your local government to donate $325,000 to a community centers or a tutoring program or feeding program and leave the statue where people can continue to ignore it. Just in case someone does notice the statue, take the remaining $25,000 and add some updated plaques to the existing statue explaining why, in light of more current information, the person the statue memorializes is not worthy of the honor. Some people will get educated and more importantly some kids will get a meal.
RoseAnne
I say it's time all those racist Confederate States changed their names.
If the Democratic Party isn't ashamed enough to change its own name, I don't see why it has a claim on anyone else's.
"A majority of Americans support the Black Lives Matter movement."
Why the three capitals and risk conflation between the organization (proper noun) as opposed to a generalized sentiment or "movement"?
What does the AP stylebook say about the "L" and the "M"?
Almost everyone was appalled at Floyd's death. No one was excusing it, the officers were immediately suspended, and fired and arrested within a week. What else was supposed to happen? How was that not justice? Three years earlier it took them over half a year to fire and arrest a cop who killed a White woman after she called for help. I don't recall White people burning down the city and looting to their hearts' content.
To heck with pulling down statues of Confederate generals that's small potatoes. I say it's time all those racist Confederate States changed their names. If your going to remove any sign of the Confederacy let's do it right
Actually if we're going to cancel things for racism and ties to the Confederacy, we should get rid of the Democratic Party first.
Soros is funding much of this along with a lot of corporate money. Soros is more strategic, like funding incompetent DAs. I'm sure that poll is representative of the WaPoo readers.
Twitter is no more the world than the Jacobin club was in 1789. I am reading worried analyses that the riots may be swinging Democrats' votes to Trump.
Is there really an increase police killing black people?
Not really, according to this site. It seems to have had a very small uptick in 2019 (2018: 209, 2019: 235). There's also a number of homicides that were "unknown" race. Of course you could choose not to believe that this site is accurate I guess.
Some, select, Black Live Matter, or some, select Black Live Matter?
A majority of Americans are diversitists and adhere to the Progressive Church's Pro-Choice, selective, opportunistic religion?
It's corporate supported
A secular, religious revival.
Is a culture defined by the art they make?
You all know the answer to that question.
To force the issue is to be accused of racism.
The leftist of any stripe have no intention of living by the code they demand of others.
"So 25% of Americans support taking down statues of George Washington?"
No true American supports taking down statues of George Washington.
NFL Pledges $250 million to Black Lives Matter
https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2020/06/black-lives-matter-nfl-to-pledge-250-million-to-combat-systemic-racism-report.html
Blogger Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Okay then I get to choose what “hateful symbols” I destroy too. Deal?
First up, any graffiti or public mural depicting white people in an unflattering light, as I see it. Seems fair.
The only thing stopping you, Mike is your lack of initiative and courage. Try pulling that move near Garner and Sanborn in Salinas.
Part of the issue is the BLM is a motte-and-bailey. BLM the cause is about eliminating racism, which is a very popular position. BLM the organization is about Marxist totalitarianism. If you criticize the latter they retreat to the former.
Interesting how the questions were worded and set up. The polling on this must be really, really awful without the massaging.
From the quote of the article:
"The share of Americans saying that black people and other minorities do not receive equal treatment in the criminal justice system has risen by 15 percentage points from 2014 — and this year marks the first time a majority of whites has held this view..."
The propaganda has been pretty effective.
the money goes to act blue, which goes to the dnc, a ransom or jizda by other name,
majority of Americans support the Black Lives Matter movement... But the public generally opposes calls to shift some police funding to social services or remove statues of Confederate generals or presidents who enslaved people..."
translated:
I can go with the flow, but I'm not completely stupid. I want 911 answered...
Does anyone have any reasonable doubt that all of this...every single bit of it....is part of the campaign leading up to November? It’s only 3 and 1/2 months away, and is only going to get worse. Very much worse. The lefties seriously plan to burn the place down in order to get control of government, and when Trump wins, all blazing hell will be unleashed in a fit of Howard rage.
- Krumhorn
"If a crowd of citizens decides to pull down a racist statue, I'm all for it. After all, it was probably a handful of racist white guys who decided to put it up in the first place. So don't act like democracy is in tatters because a hateful symbol has fallen."
It was probably a handful of racist DEMOCRAT white guys who decided to put it up.
Who in their right mind would admit to not supporting the terrorist blm group at this point in time. I call bullshit.
William50 said...
To heck with pulling down statues of Confederate generals that's small potatoes. I say it's time all those racist Confederate States changed their names. If your going to remove any sign of the Confederacy let's do it right.
and all the States and towns connected to Indians? or Conquistadors? Looking at you LA!
If Wahington's statue has got to go, how about the Washington Post?
The Duke of York was an a$$hole. Therefore, New York, and by inference the NYT, etc, etc
As worthless as a book being a "New York Times best-seller." Popularity and quality are not always directly related.
Even less value if the question does not distinguish between the Maoist BLM political movement and the general 'blacks should be allowed to live' which nobody disputes.
Gahrie said...
"Almost everyone was appalled at Floyd's death. No one was excusing it, the officers were immediately suspended, and fired and arrested within a week. What else was supposed to happen? How was that not justice?"
What else was supposed to happen? Body camera recordings show that George Floyd was experiencing respiratory difficulties before the police restrained him, probably due to the overdose of fentanyl found at his autopsy. He was alive when the police loaded him into the ambulance they called for him, and he was alive when that ambulance arrived at the hospital where he died, probably from that same fentanyl overdose. The police were recorded discussing the fact that he might be suffering from "excited delirium syndrome", which was why they kept him on his stomach, as they had been trained. The autopsy found no evidence of asphyxia, nor of any serious injury to his neck. So how exactly was it "justice" to fire and indict the police officers who did their best to save his life?
Don't take my word for it, check out this link and the numerous references therein.
i DESPISE, DETEST, AND DISTRUST THE WaPoo.
"Almost 6 in 10 white people, along with just over half of Hispanic people, oppose removing statues of Confederate soldiers, while over three-quarters of black people support their removal."
These numbers aren't exactly surprising, are they?
After all, about 60% of white voters vote(R). We know a lot of them really dig the old Confederacy.
African-Americans vote(D) more than 75%, but I can see that people living in the north wouldn't care so much about Confederate statues that they never see. They probably would underestimate how many there are in the South by a pretty significant factor.
This WaPo commenter and his upvoters are credits to their teachers and parents. /s Left logic aside, this douchecanoe evidently can’t see that it is the riotous behavior of Democrat Brownshirts and Democrat city officials complicity therein that threatens the country.
What does GW have to do with racism? Oh, I see. WaPo and it’s minions are pretending that all slaves were/are black and all slavers/owners were/are white. Intellectual pygmies are dominating the left.
I noticed that the AP/WaPo/NYT etc. have all decided to not say "Slaves" but use the words "enslaved people". So, instead of writing "Slave owning Presidents" they write "President's who enslaved people".
I find it annoying as fuck.
Kevin said...
Why are we talking about statues?
Put up or shut up. Go straight for the Constitution.
If we can live under a system of laws designed by slave owners, why would we have a problem with statues?
***************************
Utterly asinine.
Our system of laws TODAY was not designed by slave owners. Slavery is now ILLEGAL. See the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments, passed more than 150 years ago. See further the 19th amendment and the various Civil Rights acts of the 1960's and after.
It takes a neuron-depleted person to claim that we are still living under legal slavery.
Blogger iowan2 said...
The poll is full of inaccuracies...."Is there really an increase police killing black people?"...7/21/20, 7:25 AM - Not according to AG Barr.
AG BARR, ON SUNDAY MORNING FUTURES [FOX NEWS WITH MARIA BARTIROMO, 6.21.20]
AG BARR stated: “…Instances in the shooting of black unarmed males has been dropping. It was 38 five years ago, last year it was ten [black population of 13.4 million]. Ten in the nation and six of those were involved in attacking the police officer. So while any death is too many. The fact is that in proportion it’s relatively small. I mean there were roughly 8,000 homicides of African Americans in our country every year. 8,000! Ten last year were shooting (by police) a black male…”
"If a crowd of citizens decides to pull down a racist statue, I'm all for it. After all, it was probably a handful of racist white guys who decided to put it up in the first place. So don't act like democracy is in tatters because a hateful symbol has fallen."
Ah, the "two-wrongs-make-a-right" theory of public discourse. So many questions, but mainly what is a "racist statue"? I get that the mob - er, excuse me - a "crowd of citizens", gets to decide, but eventually the tit-for-tat isn't going to end well.
Reminds of the times I've been told we shouldn't worry about due process rights of those accused of rape on college campuses because it's about time the roles were reversed and men get the shaft. Oh, and a woman would never lie about sexual assault anyway.
Two wrongs make a right, indeed.
If a crowd of citizens decides to pull down a racist statue, I'm all for it.
Fine by me. Two can play this game.
Just don't come bitching when your ox gets gored. Because it will.
Meh, it's the Washington Post which has opted for clickbait since summer of 2016. I presume it's some push poll full of loaded buzzwords and fuzzy concepts.
Lets see Democratic candidates propose this horseshit on the open road. As of this writing they are still trying to pretend 'Defund the Police' doesn't mean exactly what it says and are talking into their chests whenever a citizen on the street asks them about it on an open forum.
The press can only do so much shielding. The dems will need to make the case for BLM violence and statue removal and then we can take the countries temperature in November and see.
"how about the Washington Post"
You know that the word "Post" is a veiled reference to unbridled masculinity.
"Losers aren't supposed to have this right. It'd be like us having let the Germans erect and keep statues of Hitler and his assorted generals after WWII, or allowing the Japanese to keep memorials honoring their bombing of Pearl Harbor."
Yeah, but we made peace, a peace that accepted that slavery itself had been inherited by both sides, and that there were both flaws and valid arguments on both sides. So both sides got statues.
We also made a second peace, 50 to 60 years ago, where the voting and civil rights acts went through, the Southern Democrats gave up their support of segregation, and pretty nearly all the politicians stayed in office, in the Democratic Party, and assumed leadership positions even though the Dems held huge majorities in Congress and could have purged their ranks. The real segregationists died off with Robert Byrd in 2010, and ever since the Dems have been trying to take a pound a pound of flesh from people who never had anything to do with segregation.
We should follow the lead of the French president when he said, roughly paraphrased, 'France won’t erase any name from its history. It will forget none of its artworks. It won’t take down statues. We should look at all of our history together with the goal of truth instead of denying who we are.'
But if that approach proves too painful for American communities, they may remove statues through the democratic process. What the Post poll elides is that statues are being removed by mobs. And as the French president notes, 'Without republican order, there is no security or freedom.'
Blogger Mary Beth (the commenter) said...
If a crowd of citizens decides to go after a criminal, I'm all for it. After all, a group of people are better able to handle it than the police. So don't act like democracy is in tatters because of a little vigilante justice.
Indeed. After all, that’s democracy.
Blogger frenchy said...
I don't get the confederate statue thing. Losers aren't supposed to have this right.
So, no statues of Ponce de Leon in Florida (we fought a war against Spain).
No statues of Mexicans in California (we fought a war against Mexico).
No statues of native Americans (we fought many wars against them—you might say “the land was theirs”, but they were LOSERS).
So the gist of the story is "Democrats Hate America." That's a dog-bites-man story.
Robert E. Lee had statues put up because:
(1) he was an American Hero before the Civil War (2) his conduct AFTER the war was admirable and brought the USA together (3) he was not politician but one of our greatest soldiers (4) he did not support secession. Once VA left the Union, he went with it, because lime many Americans he felt himself a VA first and an American second, just like many people today consider themselves [insert racial/ethnic group] first, and Americans second.
Given how much 'muricans hate history and anything that doesn't involve money, entertainment, or present day politics, I'm surprised any historical statue is still standing. Robert E. Lee or not. We should simply tear them all down, and put up statues to Lady Gaga and George Floyd.
Several posts here refer the 'guys' who put up Confederate monuments. Most, if not all Confederate monuments were commissioned by the United Daughters of the Confederacy. They raised the money and paid for those statues privately. These were women who sought to honor their fallen fathers. If you know anything about Southern women, you know not to bad mouth her Daddy.
If you know anything about Southern women, you know not to bad mouth her Daddy.
I'm sure Southern women are the first they're going to rape and murder.
Howard said...
Blogger Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
Okay then I get to choose what “hateful symbols” I destroy too. Deal?
First up, any graffiti or public mural depicting white people in an unflattering light, as I see it. Seems fair.
The only thing stopping you, Mike is your lack of initiative and courage. Try pulling that move near Garner and Sanborn in Salinas.
7/21/20, 10:10 AM
Shorter Howie: might makes right.
Noted.
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