From "TikTok Teens and K-Pop Stans Say They Sank Trump Rally/Did a successful prank inflate attendance expectations for President Trump’s rally in Tulsa, Okla.?" (NYT).
So... are we going to be celebrating the tricky use of the internet to interfere with campaign events?
The article proceeds to discuss "K-pop stans." Quite aside from whether the cutesy slang "stans" belongs in a serious new report — and it is serious news even if it's news of a prank — are we talking about Americans? Or is this foreign interference in our elections?
K-pop stans have been getting increasingly involved in American politics in recent months.The word "American" suggests that we are talking about foreign citizens acting in very large numbers — colluding — to harm an American political candidate — to waste the campaign's assets and to create confusion and embarrassment. Because the candidate is Trump, readers are going to be complacent. Ha ha, the kids got that guy. You have to imagine a candidate you like getting humiliated and wasting scarce assets and turning away sincerely interested event-goers.
Obviously, the campaigns themselves need to come up with ways to counteract these kinds of pranks, but I wish the mainstream journalists would do something more serious and independent than just laughing along with the kids.
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156 comments:
The fact that the President of the United States was out thought by a bunch of teens of TikTok is a legitimate news story.
Live by trivialities, die by trivialities.
Unfortunately women vote trivialities, so there you are. You don't see that on the news either.
I'm wondering how we even know who the K Pop fan accounts even are. TikTok is a Chinese company. They could be using "K Pop" bots. I know I've gotten up early in the morning to see the #1 trending twitter subject is something Kpop. I guess I find it hard to believe teenage girls who tweet about Jungkook smiling on a Korean television show really want to get involved in US politics.
I wonder how cute Occasio-Cortez would find this if it were (duhn duhn duuuuuhhnnn) Russia pop star fan accounts.
The Fake News probably knew about this but held the story so they could run countless pieces on the lack of attendance. Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper will go wild on this point today.
This is most definitely foreign election interference.
And what the hell is wrong with these South Korean kids? We saved their country once and now defend it from the Norks. Fucking ingrates.
When R's talk to anybody outside the US: Impeachable criminal interference in American elections
When D's actively involve foreign citizens in US elections: "Prank"
Remember, Trump is the one destroying our norms. Or that’s what we’re told.
What would the NYT story about Russians disrupting Biden campaign events look like? What would AOC tweet about that?
What would it look like if Trump supporters were tearing down statues they didn’t like?
Mainstream media do something serious?
Are you serious?
we kept it on the quiet side where people do pranks and a lot of activism,' said the YouTuber Elijah Daniel, 26, who participated in the campaign.
Thanks for giving us your name, Elijah. We'll let you know when charges are pending.
Major league gas-lighting is going on about this event.
Inga, Howard and the Troll Patrol dominated your comments on the Trump rally--"It's a flop, a total flop"--from beginning to end. Was there an attendance issue? I don't know. I wasn't there. It looked pretty good on the feed, but I didn't see the upper balcony. The corporate media have made themselves about as trustworthy as the spinners employed by political campaigns. Why are you even asking why the NYT is having a giggle-fest?
By the way, does a truthful report that there was a request for a million tickets hurt Trump? Team Trump says they had 4 million online viewers. Spin away, folks, but don't expect me to believe any contradictory reports from the corporate media. The NYT and others are just spinning for not-Trump--which at the moment means Grandpa Biden, who is as goofy as a car full of clowns. Wait until Joe turns mean and starts blurting racial slurs. Dementia is a beast.
Take your pick: monumental hucksterism or elder abuse?
TikTok is a Chinese communist company. I think we need some FISA warrants on Biden, his campaign, DNC, AOC and TikTok group leaders.
We need to know if anyone is colluding with a foreign government to interfere in an US election.
If you look at Ann's thread about the rally below, like the first 10 comments include nearly every resident leftist mocking the rally for the issues caused by this prank.
Post 1, Freder: "I thought there were a million ticket requests. Place looks about 1/3 full."
Post 2, Mark: "Surprised at the empty seats."
Post 3, sunsong: "donald could even fill a 19,000 seat arena. "This has been a major flop...it flopped big time!" ~ Al Sharpton"
Post 7, Inga: "Lots of empty seats and the outside venue was cancelled due to lack of people. Looks like there just might be Trumpists who didn’t want to take the risk. "
Post 12, anti de sitters pace: "...If they couldn’t get in because of Antifa blocked the venue, just email them. Or use Tik Tok to directly reach those rascals."
Post 15, ARM: "It's over."
Post 19, Chuck: "The arena is not full."
I've NEVER seen such an intense concentration of the leftists at the very start of a post.
It's almost like they were advised that the prank in question had happened and to make as much political hay out of it as possible before the prank got revealed.
It's almost like a coordinated political psy-op.
Almost.
Plenty of k-pop fans in the US to have done it, you sound like a boomer grasping at straws of youth trends. Remember Al Gore doing the macarena? That's the look you're modeling.
When the campaign said a MILLION tickets were requested, why couldn't they get 19.0000 people to actually show up?
Wonder how many will show on Nobember 3?
Typical. Democrats using foreign actors to win campaigns... Hmmmmm….and AOC brags about it.
I’m sure the left will now see why ‘vote by mail’ is a bad idea.
Ann, I'm sorry, but if you still trust or believe the Main Stream Media...the joke is on you. They are laughing about this, but what would have happened if the shoe was on the other foot?? Would they be laughing?? Would you??? People had better wake up......
I would guess team Trump will use this info in his campaign. He's pretty good at the art of the set up! Collusion 2.0 for the dems.
"Fen's Law" pretty much covers it. The Left (and that of course includes virtual all of the mainstream press) only cares about foreign influence when it benefits their opponents.
If true, charge every single one of them with a $1000 surcharge and call it a "prank".
Trump said something about getting a million requests for tickets. According to reports, he actually got a million requests for tickets. Hundreds of thousands of them were bogus but he still got them - which is what he said. Did his campaign actually expect a million people? Of course not. Not if they stuck with the venue that holds only 20,000. We're there empty seats in that venue? Yes, there were. Given the anti-Trump protesters and the hysterical news reports from media who didn't care about the virus for 2 week, I am surprised there were not more empty seats. So the result of the prank was ????? The most consistent news story of this election is that each major party candidate has mental illness or dementia. Good chance they are correct about at least one of the 2. Maybe the media could look into who would actually be running the country if that person wins.
There were unlimited tickets available, so even if a bunch of kids registered as a prank to boost the ore-rally numbers it wouldn’t have interfered with attendance by anyone who wanted to do so.
Publius said...
I’m sure the left will now see why ‘vote by mail’ is a bad idea.
Ha! Great point.
Trump failed to construct a list of known reliable verified supporters.
He failed Politics 101, just like he failed Governance 101.
I wish the mainstream journalists would do something more serious and independent than just laughing along with the kids.
The MSM = a bunch of overgrown kids with their paws in the cookie jar. I wish they'd stop blaming the jar.
Mark said...
When the campaign said a MILLION tickets were requested, why couldn't they get 19.0000 people to actually show up?
They may no longer have enough people to fill the stadium. It was a potential death trap for seniors, Trump's most reliable base.
But insofar as the campaign sought out a larger facility, planned an overflow event, hired extra security, etc., the prank did waste scarce assets.
I think it was Jean Kerr who said, "Not for nothing is youth called callow."
Of course they think their stunt is not just clever but ethically correct. And of course AOC thinks so too.
I'm not sure how to counter this move, though. I guess more robust verification, or charge people for the tickets and refund them when they show up (which, while it'd possibly work, is a political loser). Of course turnabout is fair play, but the R side doesn't have the chops for this gambit, I don't think, much less the willing assistance of tech "platforms" if it came down to what search results came up in what order, who was fact-checked and how, and perhaps even whether a site was robust enough to handle its traffic.
After a nine-minute story about walking down that slippery, angled ramp, in which he exposed and ridiculed the #FakeNewsMedia's take on it, the pathetic Lib Dems needed something else to lie about. The president, at about 1 AM and after a very long day, leaves Marine One looking tired with his tie off and shirt unbuttoned and trending on Twitter is #WalkofShame. They claim he's defeated, and 2020 is in the bag for the Biden crew. THEY have no shame.
THEOLDMAN
IMO, he looks like a tired bridegroom after the reception, heading to the hotel suite. Just like the bridegroom, PDJT is saving his energy for his beautiful wife. The Left is envious.
"The fact that the President of the United States was out thought by a bunch of teens of TikTok is a legitimate news story."
And Hillary Clinton was out-thought by Trump. So by the transitive property of out-thinking ...
Of course, then there's Joe Biden.
"...but I wish the mainstream journalists would do something more serious and independent than just laughing along with the kids..."
"...And, more importantly, why isn't mainstream media delving into the details of why the police are not acting to protect city artworks and to restore order? Where's the journalism?!..."
"...And it's bad not only as bad journalism, but it's bad on the subject of police brutality...."
"...What a perverted business! Let the journalists get their principles in order and tell us what's really happening. Put the truth first. They are so far from that..."
"...After the ousting of James Bennet a few days ago, you would think the NYT would feel extra pressure to show that it will pursue high journalistic principles and not skew things to please the people who are demanding propaganda. I can't say I'm surprised to see this sanitized portrait of George Floyd, but I want to go on record saying that this is bad...."
(re-quoting from an article) "We’re not retreating from the principles of... objectivity. We don’t pretend to be objective...."
"...I don't know what "Enterprise reporter" means, but I think what I'm enjoying is "narrative journalism..."
"...What godawful talking points did they come up with?..."
"...Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests? A rational inference is that they are not pursuing it or they are suppressing what they have because it impugns the left. Please rebut that presumption if it's wrong, NYT...."
"...I experience this NYT article as part of the "death panels" agenda — getting old people to accept their fate and go down easy...."
"...But what I'm seeing in the photograph is not a respectful appropriation of the statue as a speech prop. It's really hostile defacement and damage...."
"...Look at that headline. It says we're going to get you anxious and excited about people you're expected to care about who've got their emotions stirred up. Yes, that did get me emotional. The emotion was annoyance that the professional news media does not give me a straight factual story!..."
" I'd say they should be scrupulously careful not to do any of the ordinary political partisanship that had already badly infected journalism. There's a lot of ruined credibility out there. Everyone ought to be trying to crawl back toward the truth.... They're looking for ways to blame him, to worsen his credibility. Why not help?..."
At some point, when they are trying so hard on selling you something, you might realize that what they are selling is suspicious in intent.
And what they are selling is narrative.
Who benefits from the narrative?
And why would you go along with the narrative's politicians that are trying so hard to con you?
Abortion + LGBTQWERTY, I guess.
Fire sale: everything must go.
I am Laslo.
Plenty of k-pop fans in the US to have done it, you sound like a boomer grasping at straws of youth trends.
So what's your theory on why k-pop fans would be into doing this? Elijah Daniel is into pranking, but does he have any idea who he asked to participate? He isn't a K-Pop YouTuber or star. He isn't a Kpop Stan account. Does he have any control over which "Kpop fans" got involved/
Remember, we are supposed to say the Russians interfered with our 2016 election because they placed some Facebook ads.
Still shocked that the media is complicit? Really?
"I’m sure the left will now see why ‘vote by mail’ is a bad idea."
Why, it would be illegal to certify falsely identity or eligibility.
The Demmies are showing their respect for the laws daily in the streets.
And that nice Chief Justice Roberts shows HIS unique understanding of the Constitutional system quite regularly: President BHO could not legally issue the DACA executive orders, but President DJT cannot repeal them. Also, Roberts did a great job supervising the FISA Court.
2020 has been somewhat disappointing.
We have laws against individuals who 'circumvent' ticket access.
The Better Online Ticket Sales Act of 2016
but that applies I guess to reselling of recreational events and not political.
Who do you fear more, COVID-19 or the crazy Left? Which would make you stay away?
Wonder how many will show on Nobember 3?
That's what this is all about. The campaign has begun again. Too bad you don't have a candidate.
Qwinn said...
I've NEVER seen such an intense concentration of the leftists at the very start of a post.
This is a good thing. It was getting stale around here. There is only so much of Drago's inanities that even the most diehard supporter can take.
Letting it out that attendance was limited because of a prank also lets people know the lower attendance isn't because Trump can't draw a crowd. So good for you, lefties.
"but I wish the mainstream journalists would do something more serious and independent than just laughing along with the kids."
The problem is, they are the kids. They have the same mentality, same worldview, same temperament as kids. Only difference is that they've moved out of their mom's basements.
From the crowd scene scans of the auditorium ,the empty seats were in the nosebleed area behind Trump. Where the people would have a binocular view of the back of his head. Who even WANTS to sit there during a game, much less just see the back of someone's head?
Many more were standing in the area before him. Which was very tightly guarded by some really buff (and studly) looking dudes wearing grey t-shirts. The crowd was huge outside, until the Atifa Marxists rioters decided to appear.
So..not quite 19,000 people inside. Meh. Better than the 19 that Joe can draw at his "events" or the people who refused to even look at Warren when she was annoying them at a coffee shop.
I believe that the viewing numbers on the TV broadcasts of Trump's speech was about 500,000. That's half a million people taking time out of their lives to virtually participate. CNN would swoon to have such numbers.
ARM: "The fact that the President of the United States was out thought by a bunch of teens of TikTok is a legitimate news story."
And had it been done to Biden, it would be cause for a Congressional investigation and 3 years of breathless reports from Todd Chuck. (really, he looks more like a Todd than a Chuck) on foreign influence in our elections.
I guess the door to Dirty Tricks 2020 is open. I hope the other side enjoys the ride.
Alt-TikTok? What is that? I mean, TikTok is pretty much a kid's thing (sorry Ann). Is Alt TikTok a platform for radical 13 year olds who believe they matter?
I think that it can be cut down significantly. Start by treating it like two part verification, where you have to input a 6 digit code that you are texted. Keep the list of phone numbers, and look for duplicates for future events. Require phone verification if the phone number has been used before. Tie ticket numbers to phone numbers, then treat those phone numbers of tickets used as legitimate. If that doesn’t significantly reduce the mischief, start charging for tickets. Start with a token amount on a credit card. Run credit card verification, and reject cards from out of the country or not tied to physical addresses. Keep track of the card numbers, tied to ticket numbers, and maybe phone numbers. Require drivers license numbers. Etc. If properly framed, Trump fans who really want to attend will be willing to go along with this and those trying to screw up the events will be caught out. They just need to become aware that this group of people are trying to screw them out of getting Trump re-elected.
I agree. This was a preplanned operation. Our leftist trolls all knew about it, and were out in force last night. It shouldn’t surprise anyone - Trump’s rallies were always one of his strengths, and the Dems needed some way to counter them. Well, at least for awhile, they found one. But I don’t think that it would be hard turning these operations into the commission of federal crimes, including wire fraud, by the way that the ticket transactions are structured. Scoop up a bunch of these pranksters on federal warrants from their parents’ basements, and it will stop fairly quickly.
ARM
Be prepared for a Trump landslide.
The children and their idiot leftist enablers were just having fun, apparently with the help of the CCP.
Is anyone surprised?
https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/453336-dem-senator-introduces-bill-to-prohibit-campaigns-from-using-bots
"Former Special counsel Robert Mueller's report released earlier this year said his team found that "dozens" of political rallies were organized by a Russian troll farm that was later indicted for attempting to interfere with the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
A study released last month found that the troll farm carried out a "a highly professional campaign" that was "incredibly successful at pushing out and amplifying its messages.”
People acting like a troll farm to interfere?
“ I'm not sure how to counter this move, though. I guess more robust verification, or charge people for the tickets and refund them when they show up (which, while it'd possibly work, is a political loser).”
Then bite the bullet. For example: Charge for tickets, and treat the cost of tickets as a campaign contribution. Maybe $10 a ticket, which is low enough to be inconsequential for people who want to see Trump, but can add up fast if they are trying to screw with his campaign. Then, all of the wokester soyboys pulling this scam can be proud of the money they are contributing to the Trump campaign. Offer refunds for unused tickets when the venue mostly fils up. Etc.
Laslo - great post! Unfortunately, some people of good intent will not see what is staring them right in the face, and will not process the information in a way that allows them to see where things will inevitable end.
LOL the conman got conned
Dave Begley said...
Be prepared for a Trump landslide.
Should I buy Chinese stocks?
Democrats are cheering foreign influence in US Presidential election via Chinese Communist Party's Tik Tok and Korea's K-Pop.
I can see how this prank affected expectations, but I don't see how it could have reduced attendance. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
I think it's likely a lot of people were just sensible and didn't want to spend hours jammed in with a massive crowd during a pandemic.
Threats of violent riots may also have caused some to change their minds. Would you take your family into a situation like that? Or even your pickup truck?
Trump voters being sensible and prudent doesn't translate into a lack of motivation to vote for Trump.
"There were unlimited tickets available, so even if a bunch of kids registered as a prank to boost the ore-rally numbers it wouldn’t have interfered with attendance by anyone who wanted to do so."
People might have decided not to go because they thought it would be way too crowded and they'd have to camp out for days to get in. If that was not true, and they could have just gone over in the afternoon, maybe they'd have gone.
Also, because of the worries about coronavirus, the sense that it was overcrowded would be more of deterrent than usual. The city authorities were warning people about the virus and you had to decide if you should heed them.
"The fact that the President of the United States was out thought by a bunch of teens of TikTok is a legitimate news story."
You say that as if you don't realize that's MY point.
The NYT should cover it as news, not act like they think it's fun and they're laughing along with the kids.
The Times will on other occasions demand that we take foreign interference with the election as a matter of utmost seriousness, so that should have been part of this story.
"At some point, when they are trying so hard on selling you something, you might realize that what they are selling is suspicious in intent."
At some point, you will express appreciation for what I am doing. Your inference that I don't know what I'm doing here is quite simply wrong.
Democrats and the main stream media celebrate foreigners interfering in the US Presidential election by faking Trump rally ticket reservations. The coverage makes it blatantly obvious the main stream media is on the Democrats side.
I’d say the Tulsa mayor acting like this was going to turn his town into the next virus hotspot was the bigger factor on attendance. All the pranking did was screw up an email list.
It's okay for foreign actors to intervene in an election when they are intervening against the guy we hate.....
The NYT is worth critiquing.
Those of you who are waiting for me to stop reading the NYT... What can I say? I've said it all before. I'm reading it because it is so important, and it's my thing to critique it. The other sources of news are bad in their own way, but not so much worth my time writing about. The NYT gives me lots to work with, every day.
I really don't understand why you would want to read this blog if you don't understand that.
It's a good thing we on the right don't have to worry about Joe Biden drawing a big crowd.
"are we going to be celebrating the tricky use of the internet to interfere with campaign events?"
We, hmm. Progs, yes. The rest of us, no. Which side are you on, Althouse?
"I wish the mainstream journalists would do something more serious and independent than just laughing along with the kids."
I wish! It's so sad they would do that! They shouldn't! It's not right!
Anyway, when you decide to see what you're observing, which side are you on?
Trump used the fake ticket requests to pump up interest in the event. As usual they are a victim of their own short-term thinking. The dismal turnout looked a lot more dismal after this initial publicity pumping.
Almost every aspect of Trump's failed presidency can be tied back to his propensity for short-term thinking. He is used to conning the marks and walking away with the money. In this setting the marks are still sitting there, judging his performance.
What was the attendance, about 19k?
I think it says a lot that Trump could attract 19,000 people to his rally during a pandemic and with the threat of violent protestors waiting outside.
Joe Biden was happy if 19 people showed up to hear him speak before the Covid came along and he's still only managing to send out random signals from his basement.
Trying to decide who are the bigger heroes: the journalists who uncovered ths bombshell or the brave souls who used their phones to register for an event they had no plans to attend.
So brave. So admirable. It’s like Sophie’s Choice.
"Your inference that I don't know what I'm doing here is quite simply wrong."
I am not inferring that what you are doing is wrong. Nor do I want you to stop reading the NYT; I read it, too.
My quotes of you above show your awareness of the deception and sleight-of-hand.
I am asking about insight into what it is like when something that has many of your leanings has to go so far as to attempt to deceive others in purpose of those leanings.
Like the people who manipulate Scripture to make their point might be seen by other Christians, perhaps.
I am Laslo.
Ann, if it helps, I agree the NY Times is worth critiquing. And I think you do a good job of it for someone who emotionally leans left. I guess the rest of us are just wondering what it's going to take, how bad the Left has to misbehave, before you are willing to come out and explicitly emotionallu reject the Marxist moment we find ourselves in. Cause it's pretty obviously "systemic" at this point, isn't it? Not just "this particular thing is bad" but "the Marxist bad is so systemic, corrupt and inseparable from all other facets of the leftist movement that I can no longer in good conscience support any of it, because any such support WILL be misused, and I know now that it doesn't protect me from cancel culture anyway".
That you are far more willing to admit to bad actors and actions on the Left, and willing to concede that the Right has a valid point on occasion, IS appreciated, since as you can tell from your own leftist commenter is incredibly rare (you, Greenwald, Kaus, once in a blue moon Taibbi...who else? No leftie commenting here, thats for sure).
Orwell was wrong about the two minutes hate. It is 24/7, and we are ALL Emmanuel Goldstein. Even JK Rowling, FFS.
Fine, cons can now be fussy re this online ticket thing. Presumably now it’s also bad for the Russian gov to hack and attack the Ds. So lets have some retroactive jabber.
But, isn’t it also part of the story to look at how people could get the point that they didn’t know the million tickets ordered was BS? This is re both the pros* and the normal folks who are just regular members of the DJT cult of personality.
Not to mention, if cons are fussy about this, what about the fact that many states have made it very hard to vote? Is that an upsetting distortion of our democracy? Or just kids ordering a million tickets online? Cause nobody coulda figured out that that was fake.
*
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1263147585625305088
So the super funny joke here is that instead of just turnng away 20,000 or 50,000 people — like every other Trump campaign event — they turned away 1,000,000!
HAHAHAHAHA. Good one, I guess. If you say say, TikTok kids.
Trump used the fake ticket requests to pump up interest in the event. As usual they are a victim of their own short-term thinking. The dismal turnout looked a lot more dismal after this initial publicity pumping.
That may be true, but now they know.
"Your inference that I don't know what I'm doing here is quite simply wrong"/"I am not inferring that what you are doing is wrong."
I didn't say you were inferring that what I am doing is wrong.
I said you were inferring that I don't know what I'm doing and that your inference is wrong.
Anyway, you seem to be denying that inference too. Fine. Then what is your point? You say "I am asking about insight into what it is like when something that has many of your leanings has to go so far as to attempt to deceive others in purpose of those leanings."
Huh? That's really garbled, as I'm sure you know. I'm supposed to provide insight in a different form than the way I've been choosing to write for 16 years. I don't want to. And as for all this "leanings" business... what exactly are you interested in there that is an interesting topic for me to write about? All along, I say what I have to say. I'm not protecting or coddling the NYT. You want me to add extra sentences that chide the NYT more than I already do? I'm not seeing any worthy writing that you are asking for. You just want more of a sledgehammer at the end or something. I hate that sort of thing.
“What was the attendance, about 19k? “
Under 6200.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/06/21/turnout-at-trumps-tulsa-rally-was-just-under-6200a-fraction-of-the-venues-19200-capacity/#2330193c1fed
Bruce Hayden (8:23 and 8:34) for Deputy Secretary of State!!!
There were more people in the restroom at Trump's rally than were in total at Biden's.
THEOLDMAN
so they don't actually have any proof, if I read it right, after whitewashing marxists on three continents, the times should be read with a gimlet eye, professor,
ARM
Go right ahead and buy Chinese stocks. You can’t trust the numbers. No SEC. No Rule of Law.
Trump's revenge: Every one of those pranksters are now on the Trump campaign's distribution list and will be spammed everyday through November.
Sorry to be garbled.
And I am certainly not wanting "more of a sledgehammer" -- I can get that (almost) anywhere on the internet.
I thought writing "Like the people who manipulate Scripture to make their point might be seen by other Christians, perhaps" made it more clear (perhaps I shouldn't have cut out my Pharisees riff), but if I'm not conveying my point with enough articulation, I will let it drop.
As the Russians say, it is not enough to know the Norwegians, you must drink with the Norwegians.
They also say pretty much the same thing about the sneaky bastards in Finland.
I am Laslo.
Well the New Democrat darling AOC certainly condones and supports it. Of course she is a Democrat communist.
Via an Instapundit link.
Donald Segretti, an aide to Richard Nixon, went to prison for pulling stunts like this. He and his friends changed the date of Democratic candidate appearances. They forged other campaign literature. They planted vicious rumors in the press about Democratic candidates. They called it “ratf**king” and it caused enormous headaches for Senators Edmund Muskie and Hubert Humphrey — Democratic candidates running for the nomination.
They should be proud that they have sunk to Nixonian levels of dirty tricks. They should also get the same reward that Donald Segretti got.
I am surprised this has not been done before - free tickets.I expect a nominal charge of maybe $5 per seat for future events to help prevent this.Is there a way with technology to charge $20 then have that money automatically refunded when your cellphone enters the event?
Even years ago when I organized a few group trips 100 people would claim they wanted to go.Then when the time came to pay the number might actually halve.
Apparently ARM thinks it's OK to sabotage attendance at a campaign event by outright deceit.
Thats all we need to know about ARM.
Ann..how do you feel about the Democrat party and the media ginning up this destruction, media being actual advocates for anti Trump sentiment..does it give you pause in terms of supporting the Democrat party or any of its candidates? Personally when someone shows me very clearly that they are willing to use any means to get their way..I feel they need to be taken out of the game. Any principled person couldn’t possibly vote for a Democrat for any role in the near future. They need to be taught their lesson..that bad behavior gets punished.
Scott Adams today says if TicToc isn't shut down in the US by next week the govt ought to be voted out. The Chinese determine what goes viral on tictoc.
I say girls are the problem.
It seems to me the Trump rally organizers should have suspected something when the ticket request numbers were so astronomical.
"does it give you pause in terms of supporting the Democrat party or any of its candidates? "
I don't need to "pause" because I don't support the Democratic Party. I'm very critical of it. I also don't support the Republican Party. I'm probably less critical of it but only because I'm less interested in it. I don't support either party or any party. I'm interested in writing about politics not in being a political activist of any kind.
"Presumably now it’s also bad for the Russian gov to hack and attack the Ds. So lets have some retroactive jabber."
We tried to have some retroactive jabber about it a few weeks ago when we found out that the only supporting evidence that the Russians hacked the Ds, Crowdstrike, actually said that even *they* didn't find any evidence of Russian hacking. Oddly, no Ds I'm aware of were interested in revisiting the conversation, until you, just now, pretending that never happened.
anti-de Sitter space said...Under 6200.
Thanks. I hadn't seen anything official. I think my point is still valid, though.
I see Dust Bunny Queen beat me to it at 8:19.
"I thought writing "Like the people who manipulate Scripture to make their point might be seen by other Christians, perhaps" made it more clear (perhaps I shouldn't have cut out my Pharisees riff), but if I'm not conveying my point with enough articulation, I will let it drop."
I know I didn't directly respond to that line. I actually don't think it expresses something very useful in talking about the NYT. Obviously, people who use scripture choose the text they want and offer it for the purposes they want. It would be more properly religious to open yourself to the text itself and to ask what it is saying and, if you believe the scripture is the word of God, you should do that and align yourself with what that text really says.
Is that a terribly good analogy for what the NYT is doing when it's looking at real world events and composing its own text that does things they want to see done? I don't think so, because it's not the NYT interpreting a supposedly authoritative text. What are the points of comparison other than that people are always pushing for the things they want and shaping their speech in pursuit of it.
If YOU think you've got something there worth saying, you should just directly say it yourself, not fault me for failing to speak in those terms, but apparently you don't because your answer is simply to let it drop.
I am surprised this has not been done before - free tickets.I expect a nominal charge of maybe $5 per seat for future events to help prevent this.Is there a way with technology to charge $20 then have that money automatically refunded when your cellphone enters the event?
What the lefties don't understand is that these rallies are data entry for the fall. If a bunch of kids requested tickets and did not show up to sabotage the event, their IDs are now in the database as enemies. They will be identified if they try this again. The attendees have their data recorded for fall communication. GOTV and similar purposes.
"I don't need to "pause" because I don't support the Democratic Party."
Didn't you recently confirm that you voted for Hillary in 2016? I know it wasn't an enthusiastic vote, but still, it qualifies as support.
"or any of its candidates" was a pretty key part of the question, I think.
Ann Althouse said...
"You just want more of a sledgehammer at the end or something. I hate that sort of thing."
That's why I both love and hate the cruel neutrality thing, and I think that's your intent. One great virtue of this blog is that you expose the ludicrous things that people write or say in media outlets and news releases. That you don't always come down to agreeing with positions I like is hard to take sometimes, but I'll take that any day over not getting cruel neutrality- based insights into what the Left is into.
Well Ann I appreciate what you are doing in posts like this. Your critics here want you to get all PJM/CNN with wild denunciations and dodgy paraphrases. Perspective is undervalued.
"Didn't you recently confirm that you voted for Hillary in 2016? I know it wasn't an enthusiastic vote, but still, it qualifies as support."
I do vote. I've voted for candidates from both parties, and it's basically always a lesser-of-2-evils vote. I'm not a party member and I dislike both parties. How am I supposed to vote? I voted for Romney in 2012, and I voted for GWB in 2004. I voted for Gore in 2000 and Obama in 2008. I've never happy with the options and whatever you want to say about the word "support," I don't support any *party.* I do *vote* for candidates. That's the only way you *can* vote.
It’s funny that Trump's team got plunked, but it’s also an attempt to interfere with other people and with campaigns. Dirty tricks in politics were once frowned upon in polite society, but now they are celebrated.
Notice the only ones telling the truth and acting in good faith were the Trump campaign.
Speaking of voting ... how much better off would the country be if we were in the second Romney term?
Wait a minute. Just yesterday the big story was how much violence we could expect at this rally. So that negative story didn't happen, as usual, so now we have this. We know what they are trying to do every single day. We just wait to see how they choose to do it each day. I assume they have a few negative stories lined up, and they wait to see which one can plausibly be sent up the flagpole. Journalism.
Be nice to read a true after action report on what happened, and who caused the attendance issues.
I was wondering what else Trumps enemies could do in the 4 1/2 months till election.
Gut feeling the actions that caused the lack of attendance were coordinated.
As was the highlighting of the lack of attendance.
Be interesting to see what Trump does about it. He does retaliate. And the actions were probably interstate, so DOJ. I don’t know if charging people would be a negative?
anti-de Sitter space said...
“What was the attendance, about 19k? “
Under 6200.
This is a lot worse than I had realized. Difficult to spin this.
watch out if these guys get together LOL:
"Lincoln doesn't know much about K-Pop stans or TikTok Teens.
But I welcome them to this great cause, and want to understand more.
If you stan K-Pop or are a teen on TikTok and want to help — or if you can explain this phenemon to me — please contact
@ProjectLincoln ASAP."
~ The Lincoln Project
adSs: "Presumably now it’s also bad for the Russian gov to hack and attack the Ds. So lets have some retroactive jabber."
LOLOLOLOL
Just like Inga, adSs thinks its still Jan of 2017!
Het adSs, we know now from under oath testimony (the kind that Inga hates) from the FBI and NSA and CEO of democrat-aligned Crowdstrike that there officially exists ZERO evidence that:
1) Russia hacked the DNC
2) Russia collaborated with wikileaks
3) Russia wanted Trump to win
4) Trump colluded with Russia
4) Any claim from the hoax dossier was actually verified
Zero. From the mouths of those directly involved.
But by all means, continue with your Inga act because I am sure most find your inability to deal with this amusing.
Although it had to be a big pain in the ass for Trump's campaign ( I suspect they were a bit wary of the high numbers beforehand) it's actually a pretty harmless use of social media compared to some of the other shit that goes on. Of course it may be giving Trump too much credit, but does anyone think that this rally in the reddest of red states was intended to smoke out what the opposition was up to?
I and a lot of other people requested tickets in order to show support. The ticketing page collects your contact information and each registration is verified by sending a code to the phone number listed. They just collected a million verified phone numbers.
I would have been pleased to see a huge attendance, but did not expect it to be. The Left will mock now, but attendance numbers will grow and Trump will be able to mock the early reports about low attendance. At that time, he can blame whatever he wants for the lower attendance - COVID, protesters, the lying media - and that reason will become dominant in the narrative. If the stadiums go from partially full now to full later, it will look even more like "winning". Everyone loves a good story with a comeback.
"...but I wish the mainstream journalists would do something more serious and independent than just laughing along with the kids."
They aren't capable of that, because they aren't really journalists. They are partisans and Democrat Party political operatives posing as journalists.
K-pop fans are no joke. The biggest boy band in the world BTS gave $1M to BLM and K-pop fans raised a matching amount. They have enormous power.
This was a spontaneous crowdsource ratfuck not one organized and paid for by the committee to elect the president. It's nice to see your pussies clutching your pearls over this. you're just pissed off because you didn't think of it and you didn't have the balls to pull something like this off.
“I do vote. I've voted for candidates from both parties, and it's basically always a lesser-of-2-evils vote. I'm not a party member and I dislike both parties. How am I supposed to vote? I voted for Romney in 2012, and I voted for GWB in 2004. I voted for Gore in 2000 and Obama in 2008. I've never happy with the options and whatever you want to say about the word "support," I don't support any *party.* I do *vote* for candidates. That's the only way you *can* vote.”
This is dangerous, because Ann is a contrarian. But my guess is that she votes for Trump this time. Her pattern seems to be to vote for the Dem on the first election of a two term Presidency, and the Rep on the second. Or just alternated DRDRD since 2000 (she admitted awhile back to having voted for Crooked Hillary). Should be an easy choice for her if senile China Joe Biden is still at the top of the Dem ticket. Harder, I think, if he is replaced by a woman.
Which makes her a lot more interesting as a voter (and probably person) than I, who voted RRRRRRRRRRRR in Presidential elections, since our first vote in 1972.
"I do *vote* for candidates. That's the only way you *can* vote."
Sorry, no. You vote for a team along with the candidate. But to each her illusion.
The exception is Trump: since he was at odds with the party, voters really picked him, in part to vote against the GOPe (and against Hill, of course).
I think Althouse does a great job in sustaining interest in her blog, and part of that is her challenging approach to the pieties and pathologies of both parties. I am a partisan Republican, and I find her willingness to engage with issues refreshing in a world where everyone is trying to sell me something.
JS Mill got it right: “He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of it.”
Kudos to Althouse for actually thinking and writing about this stuff.
TikTok is ChiCom owned.
So now the dems are proudly celebrating colluding with the ChiComs to influence a domestic political event at the very moment the dems seek to launch Sham-Peachment 3 - Electric Boogaloo.
Interesting.
Quick note: The Lenin statue in Seattle remains beautifully pristine and protected by the explicitly marxist antifa and BLM.....but whatever you do, dont call them commies!
If I do Ferengi math :
capacity = 19,000
city required? fire marshal monitored? social distancing? >>> every other seat at least
"profit" = 9,500 = final crowd estimate
where goes the story of empty arena?
'It spread mostly through Alt TikTok — we kept it on the quiet side where people do pranks and a lot of activism,' said the YouTuber Elijah Daniel, 26, who participated in the campaign. 'K-pop Twitter and Alt TikTok have a good alliance where they spread information amongst each other very quickly. They all know the algorithms and how they can boost videos to get where they want.'...
Pretty good one, actually. Like I said a hundred times before, this is how the left gets boycotts gong . This is how it gets thousands of emails and phone calls to advertisers. This is how it gets thousands of protesters at a moments notice
If the right was as organized, they might be able to balance things out as far as intimidating the head of companies into doing what it wanted A million phone calls to advertisers of "the View" might induce a change of attitude.
Scott Adams mentioned the online ticket trick days ago. He said it wouldn’t work because the overflow crowd would simply take the empty seats. He must not have figured on the immense Anti1a and BLM crowd blocking entrances, possibly tampering with metal detectors, and intimidating any Trump backers on the scene.
The Trump campaign was hyping the event to boost tickets and expected 40000 at an overflow event.it was done to harvest names for fundraising. I think what this does is put into question their fundraising list.
Bob Boyd said...It seems to me the Trump rally organizers should have suspected something when the ticket request numbers were so astronomical.
What makes you think that they didn't suspect something?
The dominant narrative of the Tulsa rally is Democrat dirty tricks. That seems like an advantage for Trump because the tricks really accomplished nothing but to make twits (like ARM, Howard and Inga) feel good for a short period of time. It was like they were masturbating to it.
No shows in database as enemies? Ha! I have $5 each to Trump and Clinton in 2016 to get on their mailing lists. 4 years later I am bombarded almost hourly with flattering and pleading emails and texts from the Trump campaign. Email algorithms treat them as spam.
Well it's an interesting idea as far as campaign subterfuge. Personally, I see two distinct events: the TikTok prank to reserve tickets and the rally itself. I'm with those that suspect that the lack of attendance was more due to concerns about congregating in large groups.
But it is nice to know how AOC feels about the deception. Karma, and all that.
We on the Right are planning the best prank - re-electing Trump.
TRUMP 2020 - Because F*$! You Again!
This has all the earmarks of another circling torpedo. Within a week the narrative about this will have changed and ARM will be back to his demoralized self and Inga will be babbling insensately about Boogie Nights and Don Ho.
The important line was, "And why would you go along with the narrative's politicians that are trying so hard to con you?" Lazlo
What impressed me about Lazlo's initial comment was the number of times Ann expressed regret that higher standards are not being upheld by journalists who are aiding and abetting the Democratic political apparatus. In other words, at what point do you get off the fence and abandon a neutral stance? At what point do you declare that what is happening in the Democratic Party is beyond questionable but is unacceptable?
... I'm not sure how to counter this move, though. I guess more robust verification, or charge people for the tickets and refund them when they show up (which, while it'd possibly work, is a political loser).
-------------==============
willing refund claimants can be organized and hired to walk in > claim; walk out > walk back in > claim and so on.
if refused refund >>> will become noisy story.
... Of course turnabout is fair play, but the R side doesn't have the chops for this gambit, I don't think, much less the willing assistance of tech "platforms" if it came down to what search results came up in what order, who was fact-checked and how, and perhaps even whether a site was robust enough to handle its traffic.
------------===========
citizens pay when Rs won't even call Ds war POLITICS much less WAR
Q: who then is lesser of two evil per standard for her vote by Professora
Fair enough Professor, though at this point every single Democrat is so rigidly conformist, so utterly in lockstep with every other Democrat that I don't see how voting for a candidate isn't exactly the same as voting for the Party. Democrats themselves are widely using that as justification for voting for Biden. It doesn't matter if he has dementia, you're voting for the Party!
Anyway, with AOC and our resident lefties all cheering the awesomeness of fraudulent ticket reservations to get Trump, I wonder what *possible* plausible reason they expect us to buy that they won't apply the exact same self-justification for massive mail in voter fraud. I said plausible.
Ann appreciate you reading the NYT so I don’t have to ...and I appreciate your clarification of your views. I have supported some Democrats in the past..I liked Russ Feingold way back when..but now feel that party has veered so off course of what I hope it means to be American that in my opinion..they need to get completely voted out in literally every position possible to send the message that they need to reform their party. Republicans had that happen to them against their desires with Donald Trump getting elected..I think that was a most important bellweather of what Americans want in their country.
Ann appreciate you reading the NYT so I don’t have to ...and I appreciate your clarification of your views. I have supported some Democrats in the past..I liked Russ Feingold way back when..but now feel that party has veered so off course of what I hope it means to be American that in my opinion..they need to get completely voted out in literally every position possible to send the message that they need to reform their party. Republicans had that happen to them against their desires with Donald Trump getting elected..I think that was a most important bellweather of what Americans want in their country.
Brad Parscale is a problem in the lead campaign manager's role. He should step back to digital work only or step aside.
What you are not applauding this? This argument must be more persuasive to get over the inherent intellectual hypocrisy.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Trump failed to construct a list of known reliable verified supporters.
He failed Politics 101, just like he failed Governance 101."
Considering he beat Hillary in 2016 he certainly did pass politics 101. As for governance, exceeding Obama is a very low bar but it is a bar nonetheless and Trump exceeded that and more.
Rosalyn: "In other words, at what point do you get off the fence and abandon a neutral stance? At what point do you declare that what is happening in the Democratic Party is beyond questionable but is unacceptable?"
At no point. Commenters noted before that at some point, approaching bad-faith outrages with good-faith how-could-theys itself becomes a form of bad-faith encouragement. Prog outrage # 3999: I wish they wouldn't do that! #4000: it's terrible they do this!
The Althouse line is that she is a "writer," into "observing." A writer who occasionally chides the next prog for the next outrage that "I wish" they wouldn't do.
Though observing is better than nothing (if you know what I mean), the best writers have the courage to see what they observe.
Ken B said...
Notice the only ones telling the truth and acting in good faith were the Trump campaign.
Are you arguing that the Trump campaign did not know that the number of requests for tickets was wildly inflated? Even I don't think they are that stupid and incompetent.
I don't think they can be embarassed,
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/06/21/liberals-crowing-about-blocking-tickets-to-trump-rally-are-silly-and-embarrass-themselves/
Are you arguing that the Trump campaign did not know that the number of requests for tickets was wildly inflated? Even I don't think they are that stupid and incompetent.
I'm not sure why I respond to a liar like you but others may see this.
I don't know how this ploy was done but it will only be done once. I suspect the CCP was behind this and possible the dnc, as they are allied now.
Are you arguing that the Trump campaign did not know that the number of requests for tickets was wildly inflated? Even I don't think they are that stupid and incompetent.
I'm not sure why I respond to a liar like you but others may see this.
I don't know how this ploy was done but it will only be done once. I suspect the CCP was behind this and possible the dnc, as they are allied now.
Quite aside from whether the cutesy slang "stans" belongs in a serious new report…
This is the first time I've ever seen or heard that word in my life. Yet it hasn't shown up on this feed that "tweets words when they appear in the New York Times for the first time."
The children and their idiot leftist enablers were just having fun, apparently with the help of the CCP.
Is anyone surprised?
Indeed but the weighting should be:
CCP
Presstitutes
App bots
Pranksters
I think Laslo's point is, since the NYTimes and their readers already agree politically, why the need for so much deception in their paper? How do you feel, as someone who seems to lean-left politically, when the once highly esteemed paper of record has decided to become a DNC propagandist, and to do so it needs to lie to you? What does it say about the leftist agenda that it's followers must be fed a daily stream of hate and lies in order to keep the faith?*
It says to many of us that the NYTimes is a corrupt institution, that has willfully aided in the corruption of the Democrat party by not reporting on the policy failures of Dem controlled cities or downplaying the corruption scandals of Democrat leaders. And it is willfully misinforming its readers to keep them voting Democrat.
All of us know that you are not in the group of NYTimes readers who wants to be lied to; but do you know how misinformed you are if you get most of your news from left-leaning outlets?
Many of us gave up on the Democrats years ago, not out of any love for Republicans, but because we saw how media, such as the NYT, was covering up corruption in service to the Democratic Party. We predicted the chaos we're living in now because we could see the divisiveness inherent in leftist identity politics; and we warned about the coming attacks on conservative speech.
Your subtlety leads some to think you still do not see that the Democratic party has been corrupted by a compliant media, and has been taken over by a radical-left, anti-American platform. If you don't want to use a sledgehammer approach in your critique of the NYT you have to be prepared to accept that it will lead to ambiguity among you readers as to what you believe. Some will wonder, are you willfully blind, woefully misinformed, and/or still playing at "cruel neutrality"?
______________________________________________
*I apologize to Laslo if I'm misinterpreting his point. And yes I'm aware there are probably right-wing "news" sources that distort the truth and feed hate. But they are not on the level of influence and trust as the NYT. (Although that trust in the NYT is eroding.)
The shorter version of my comment above: If the leftist paper of record told the truth to its readers about the failures and corruption of the Democrats, the party could not continue to win elections. Laslo and others are just wondering whether you see this as clearly as some of us do.
Pretty much it, Night Owl - thanks.
I am Laslo.
Beijing Boy: "Are you arguing that the Trump campaign did not know that the number of requests for tickets was wildly inflated? Even I don't think they are that stupid and incompetent."
The more the global Great Awakening to the ChiCom's perfidy in pushing the ChiCom flu advances, the angrier ARM becomes.
And its fantastic.
readering: "No shows in database as enemies? Ha! I have $5 each to Trump and Clinton in 2016 to get on their mailing lists. 4 years later I am bombarded almost hourly with flattering and pleading emails and texts from the Trump campaign."
BREAKING NEWS: Political campaigns use different rhetorical tactics (messaging/content/media) to raise funds.
Shocking! Unprecedented! Impeachable (no doubt)!
Ken B: "Speaking of voting ... how much better off would the country be if we were in the second Romney term?"
We now see clearly that a Romney second term would equate to an obama 3rd term.
Howard: "This was a spontaneous crowdsource ratfuck not one organized and paid for by the committee to elect the president. It's nice to see your pussies clutching your pearls over this. you're just pissed off because you didn't think of it and you didn't have the balls to pull something like this off."
Howard out-Inga's Inga in the mindreading category to come up with this latest hilarity.
Mindreading must be how Howard knows the Park Police used tear gas even though no police officers were wearing gas masks.
Howard is "smart" that way. Not dumb, like some people say. But smart. And dammit! He wants to participate in the conversation!
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent: "This has all the earmarks of another circling torpedo. Within a week the narrative about this will have changed and ARM will be back to his demoralized self and Inga will be babbling insensately about Boogie Nights and Don Ho."
This.
TikTok would have been a non-issue in this if it had been possible for the overflow crowd to fill in, but the crowd was only there to protest democracy, not participate in it. That AOC praised the filthy ChiCom trick and Korean collusion tells us that Democrats don’t believe in democracy.
“The Althouse line is that she is a "writer," into "observing." A writer who occasionally chides the next prog for the next outrage that "I wish" they wouldn't do.
Though observing is better than nothing (if you know what I mean), the best writers have the courage to see what they observe.”
The Trumpists chide Althouse for not going Full Trump.
The "TikTok" action just backfired cause it makes Trump supporters mad and creates 'Crusaders' for Trump. Moreover, given the 'Pandemic' and BLM harassment of Trump supporters at the "Tulsa Event', I'm suprised at the size of the attendance at Tulsa. Even Bloomberg News acknowledged that online viewing of this event was estimated at over 10 million internet viewers. That's the 21st Century way to view these political events.
"I wish the mainstream journalists would do something more serious and independent than just laughing along with the kids."
Like laughing at Gen-Zs, implying that they lack reason and assuming that their Trump countermove was frivolous?
On the other hand, I have always thought that the media wasted its time and that of most readers by attending Trump's fantasy press conferences and actually reporting his useless stream-of-consciousness blabbering about himself or personally attacking anyone, except Putin, who disagrees with him.
Inga: "The Trumpists chide Althouse for not going Full Trump."
Tell us more about russia collusion.
Gadfly is still living in January of 2017 like you and needs a pick me up.
Pirated versions of Bolton's book are available. So if you don't want to support Bolton but do want to read the book that is now an option.
https://data.ddosecrets.com/file/The%20Room%20Where%20It%20Happened%20-%20John%20Bolton.pdf
Open Question: Will the democratics in Congress stay true to form and impeach Trump because lefties colluded with ChiComs to impact US elections?
Admit it: If right-wing teen pranksters did this to Biden you'd all be chortling.
Many of us gave up on the Democrats years ago, not out of any love for Republicans, but because we saw how media, such as the NYT, was covering up corruption in service to the Democratic Party. We predicted the chaos we're living in now because we could see the divisiveness inherent in leftist identity politics; and we warned about the coming attacks on conservative speech.
That'd be me. And maybe one day, Althouse.
Nobody needs to do anything to Biden. He’s already been did.
Earnest Prole: "Admit it: If right-wing teen pranksters did this to Biden you'd all be chortling."
Admit it: If right-wing teen pranksters did this to Biden you'd be screaming for congressional investigations and impeachment.
Beijing Boy: "Pirated versions of Bolton's book are available."
Probably thru ARM's Beloved and Heroic ChiComs.
Admit it: If right-wing teen pranksters did this to Biden you'd be screaming for congressional investigations and impeachment.
You’ve confused me with someone else.
You don't have to donate or do anything to get emails from the Trump campaign. I get at least two a day, and I have never voted for Trump or given anything to them. The closest I may have come is to click LIKE on Facebook for something I agreed with.
BTW, about these pranks,as They say, "All's fair in love and war." This ain't love.
As for how the presidential campaign has my information, in the depths of my despair on Election Eve 2008, I sent a small contribution to mccain-palin. I believe that campaign has been selling my information ever since. Or whoever are its heirs.
Some people say Drago is tedious, as an attack dog on leftist idiocy, lying and other perfidy.
It's a tough job, but somebody should do it, and I thank Mr. Drago.
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