The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide, called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government “scum,” referred to the assembled media as “sick people,” and even admitted his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”...Are the media going soft on Trump? If so, why? I suspect that if they are lightening up, it's because they've come to believe that constantly battering Trump has produced numbness and even sympathy. That's the effect it has on me. And the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem. To expose the misrepresentation, you must focus on the death of infants, and that generates powerful feelings that abortion-rights proponents may fear.
The New York Times did attempt to fact-check Trump’s lie about Democrats and abortion — Trump accused Democrats of supporting doctors who “wrap the baby beautifully” before they get together with the mother and “determine whether or not they will execute the baby” — but in so doing, the outlet demonstrated it doesn’t really have a vocabulary to adequately deal with Trump.
Instead of calling Trump’s lie a lie, the Times used the euphemism “revived an inaccurate refrain” in a tweet that was widely mocked. The accompanying article goes out of its way to avoid accusing Trump of lying, instead describing him as “reviv[ing] on Saturday night what is fast becoming a standard, and inaccurate, refrain about doctors ‘executing babies.’”...
The irony is that on Saturday night, as always, the media was one of Trump’s foremost targets of abuse — yet the very outlets Trump demeans continue to bend over backward to cover him in the most favorable possible light.
April 29, 2019
"Coverage of Trump’s latest rally shows how major media outlets normalize his worst excesses."
Aaron Rupar writes about the Green Bay rally at Vox:
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1 – 200 of 220 Newer› Newest»And the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem."
Indeed it is. It's called infanticide. A Democrat Governor supports that. And so do many Democrats. Trump speaking Truth to Power.
The accompanying article goes out of its way to avoid accusing Trump of lying,
Perhaps because he wasn't lying. Democrats do support laws that would allow babies born alive during botched abortions to die from neglect. This is infanticide, and in any other situation besides abortion an obvious crime.
Democrats are just mad they aren't facing their friends like Mitt and the Bush clan who were on their side.
They can't honestly say what they want to do. They can't deal with it when they get called out.
""Coverage of Trump’s latest rally shows how major media outlets normalize his worst excesses.""
Normalizing the truth. Can't have that!
called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government “scum,” referred to the assembled media as “sick people,” and even admitted his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”...
Lets see: FBI agents violating the law for political purposes are not scum? Making Sanctuary cities actually live up to their virtue signally is delightful sick. Great idea. Please Do It Now.
And the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem. To expose the misrepresentation
Did Democrats introduce, and support, bills that would allow doctors to kill babies born during botched abortions to die from neglect, thus deliberately killing (executing) them or not?
You've tried to defend abortion by claiming that the unborn have no rights as persons. How do you claim that those already born have no right to life?
"The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."--Ralph Northam (Va Gov)
If "the post-birth abortion lie" was a lie, then what is the discussion about?
Is "the post-birth abortion lie" a lie, or just something Democrats would rather not talk about?
The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide,
some falsehood!
“If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen,” said Mr. Northam, a former pediatric neurologist. “The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/30/ralph-northam-virginia-governor-defends-bill-allow/
The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide,
"Partial birth" abortion is infanticide.
called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government “scum,” referred to the assembled media as “sick people,” and even admitted ["bragged" is more correct] his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants[sic] to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”...
Sometimes you have to wonder why everyone doesn't love them some Trump.
I've read Gov. Northam's statement (indeed I've seen the video), and I'm hard pressed to say that Trump is lying or even inaccurate. I'm curious what interpretation Prof. Althouse puts on Northam's statement that would make Trump's paraphrase thereof inaccurate.
“wrap the baby beautifully”
But remove foil before microwaving.
"To expose the misrepresentation, you must focus on the death of infants, and that generates powerful feelings that abortion-rights proponents may fear."
Well, yeah. First, since there is no misrepresentation, it generates the powerful feeling that abortion-rights proponents are the actual liars. Then it creates the powerful feeling that if infanticide is evil, so is killing a fetus in the womb just before potential viable delivery. Those are bad, bad feelings.
Let's take a look at these so called "lies".
The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide
Sure it's hyperbolic, but is it not true that in NY and Virginia there's been Democrat produced bills around late term abortion? I certainly wouldn't classify Trump's comments as exactly a "lie".
called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government “scum,”
A subjective description of a group of people is not strictly a lie, it's an opinion.
referred to the assembled media as “sick people,”
Another subjective description.
even admitted his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”
And another.
These all seem like things that aren't really lies about Democrats, but opinions about Democrats. Is my analysis flawed here?
Aaron Rupar, Associate editor, politics & policy.
Just go to archive of the writings of this Trump-obsessed "editor" and see how he tries to spin events to the narrative.
And as with Democrats, where the "policy"?
https://www.vox.com/authors/aaron-rupar/archives
If Democrats don't support infanticide, why not allow protections for babies born alive in a botched abortion?
Let's all take someone who writes for Vox seriously, shall we?
President Trump does his own wet work. Then he refuses to walk anything back. As the posts identifies, President Trump forces the left to defend their position. 4th trimester abortions are hard to defend. That's why the NYT has to get all mealy mouthed about the subject. It's hard to defend the Legislature of NY leaping to their feet, giving a standing ovation giving legal cover for killing babies after birth.
The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide,
Here’s what Vox, an entity not exactly supportive of Republicans, had to say about Gov. Northam’s comments: “Gov. Northam, a Democrat, was asked about the bill in a radio interview on Wednesday, and his response only added to the controversy. Appearing to discuss what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion, he said, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government “scum,”
The record shows that these people tried to apply extra-legal maneuvers to remove Trump from office, while ignoring the plain language of the relevant statutes in the case of Hillary’s Email server (note to retired law professors — mens rea is not required, only that one mishandled the classified information, whether or not you meant to screw up)
referred to the assembled media as “sick people,”
If any White House correspondent laughed at Samantha Bee’s “jokes,” then they really are sick.
and even admitted his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”...
Good!
Okay, both you and Scott Adams insist the infanticide thing is a lie, and that no one wants that. But some do. If you search back on Coyne's site, whyevolutionistrue, you see explicit advocacy for it. I have seen discussions, especially in re Downs syndrome, on other left wing sites. And the Va governor's words leave no wiggle room — at least some babies in some circumstances would be delivered and kept comfortable before their fate was decided.
Example (there are others) https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/should-one-be-allowed-to-euthanize-severely-deformed-or-doomed-newborns/
And the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem.
Professor, how very disappointing! Unless "lie" has been redefined to mean "proven fact," then there's a bit of a problem with this statement. Of course, you're right that it's a very special problem, not because it's a lie, but because it's true.
The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide
I don't think the author knows the meanings of "falsely" or "infanticide".
Voting to legalize the killing of babies is legalizing the act infanticide. Democrats have passed bills to legalize this....thereby supporting the killing of babies and even young children.
Perhaps not every Democrat but certainly enough to make a majority in voting into law. So...not a false statement by Trump.
The author also seems to be confused about what is a lie and what is an opinion that he doesn't agree with. HINT: not agreeing with you doesn't make that person a liar.
The good German people also became numb to the efforts to reveal what Hitler really was. You are good Germans.
Agree that, in addition to being overwhelmed with Trump's rhetoric, the media senses that it's constant hair-on-fire fear-mongering is not working, and might be helping their enemy.
As for the misrepresentations themselves, Trump's supporters know what most voting people know: politicians lie. He lies in support of things they like, and tells the truth about the big problems other politicians lie about, like trade and immigration.
He bypasses the media daily with his tweets and rallies.
He calls them out and mocks them.
And they're powerless to stop him.
They're flummoxed and enraged.
He's setting the pattern and showing the way for future leaders.
It's a colorful clump of cells ("fetus") in a laboratory, a baby outside of an abortion chamber, a child in general usage, a human life from conception to death. #HateLovesAbortion
Democrats are anti-science and immoral for the sake of a wicked solution (selective-child) and social progress (e.g. recycled-child). In Stork They Trust
Deranged Donald misrepresents what happens in Wisconsin and twists a few facts for a base that eats it up because he narrows the focus to himself.
The larger point is that Trump is previewing the themes he expects to hammer on during the campaign. Democrats better figure out their answers soon, because "you lie" is not going to work.
"Execution" sounds more active while Northam's implication was that the infant would be allowed to die, but the end result is the same. I don't think "execute" is a lie, just hyperbole. Since all infants require care to survive, the decision to not provide care is essentially making a decision to kill it.
I bet I could find news stories from times when Republicans were talking about cutting welfare or other benefits where the media implied, or even stated outright, that the GOP wanted to kill poor people. Now they're mad because Trump plays their game better than they do.
roesch/voltaire: "Deranged Donald misrepresents what happens in Wisconsin and twists a few facts...."
Yeah, the 3 year Hoax Collusion liars chime in.
The good German people also became numb to the efforts to reveal what Hitler really was
The Nazis, Maoists, Stalinists, fascists, and other left-wing radicals were rabid diversitists, who carried out social justice campaigns without borders, and were Pro-Choice (e.g. selective-Jew) to advance science (e.g. recycled or Planned Jew). The black leftists in Africa would lynch other blacks, while international leftists would open abortion zones for their competitors, in order to secure natural resources. Then there are the Hutu-Tutsi cycles of redistributive and retributive change.
Deranged R/V supports infanticide, but would prefer if you not notice or mention it.
The lefties are calling the people who OPPOSE infanticide the "good Germans".
Let that sink in.
The frustration on the part of the left/LLR-left is becoming even more pronounced.
Their stalinist coup failed and they flail about looking for anything that will take Trump down.
The problem is, it's not a "lie" in the normal sense of the word (roughly "a knowingly false claim").
It's a hostile evaluation of their actual position as revealed by legislation, and interpretations of same.
In other words, it's a statement of opinion about their position.
(Note for the record that I think the opinion is very hard to justify and would categorize it as "trying way too hard" and more wrong than not ... but that's not the same as a lie.)
"Opinions I don't think are justified" are still not "lies", guys.
Does the author not know the difference? Does the author think their audience doesn't?
The 'baby that failed to be aborted and is then killed' is a lie, because baby power is like wind power, and can be stored in a very large battery called Heaven to be used later to power your refrigerator.
I am Laslo.
"The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide"
Falsely?
I think not.
Elective abortion (e.g. one-child, selective-child) is a summary judgment, cruel and unusual punishment, and termination of a human life that is disarmed and helpless and denied a voice to protest. Sometimes the executioners' planned methods fail, and the child survives. Infanticide is when she is subject to a second round of torture through deprivation of basic care from an audience numbed through semantic games and secular incentives.
The good German people also became numb to the efforts to reveal what Hitler really was. You are good Germans.
So the man who opposes killing innocents is a Hitler?
"death of infants" because the adults in the room stood by, denied it care, and watched it die. None dare call it murder.
I notice that many commentators have already critiqued Althouse's claim that the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem, so I won't belabor the point. The proposed legislation supported by Virginia Governor Ralph Northam is discussed and cited here. The National Review, a journal not noted for uncritical Trump support agrees that the proposed law would legalize infanticide.
National Democrats have had ample opportunity to denounce Governor Northam for supporting third-trimester abortion, but so far have only expressed outrage at his undergraduate hijinks in blackface. On the matter of infanticide, there has been nary a whisper of even mild disdain. Therefore, many of us conclude that the president's accusation has considerable merit.
I also notice that so far Althouse has declined to defend her claim that Trump's accusation is false, which I take to be significant.
Practically all of those asserting that post-birth infanticide is a lie are opposed to the born-alive bill in Congress that would require than newborns be provided ordinary medical care, the same as any other person.
"The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide..."
https://victorygirlsblog.com/democrats-say-trump-not-allowed-to-discuss-ralph-northams-infanticide-advocacy/
All unwanted babies should be dumped at the home of a right-winger who opposes abortion. All hungry children should be their responsibility, as well. Stop hiding in front of your TV that's stuck on Fox News channel. You should be raising troubled kids with all the free time that you waste opposing abortions, i.e., controlling women's bodies from your TV room. There's room for you to shut up as well. I'm thinking of you Dairy Queen Bitch!
Human evolution begins from conception. The Stork is a myth propagated by secular sects. When, and by whose choice, does a human life acquire and retain the right to life, to due process, to freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, to humane treatment following a failed execution?
Am I wrong when I observe that the most jejune and insipid trolls who skulk in the shadows and alleys of the Althouse blog delight in insulting the lights of Western civilization by appropriating their names and images?
"Deranged Donald" coined by someone who stands there and watches while babies die. Democrat party members are dangerous people. The mindset that infected Nazi Germans is at work with so many of the ordinary Democrat party member.
Democrats did not expect, and apparently still do not accept, the heavy push back on post-partum abortion. Once a baby if born alive -- and, note for all you abortion extremists, whether you perceive yourself as extreme or not, once it is born alive it is a baby, notwithstanding of whether you meant to abort it while it was still inside the mother. Even many people who support late term abortion draw the line at killing a baby born alive.
In the annals of supporting the underdog, it is hard to imagine anyone more of an underdog than an innocent baby that its mother tried to kill.
Pro-Choice or the wicked solution is two choices (choice, prevention) too late, which combined with recycle or cannibalized-child is highly progressive.
I use "deranged Donald" because that is what George Conway tweeted recently and given his nightly gossip with KellyAnna, I assume he knows a great deal more that I do about the king of the ad hominem attack --Present Trump. I would hope that a. President would focus less on himself and more on the nation and policies, but here is a quote to put the abortiion comments in perspective:Furthermore, opponents of the “born alive” bill and similar legislation say this is purposely inflammatory dialogue that omits crucial facts. Abortions after 24 weeks — when a healthy fetus is typically viable — are extremely rare and account for less than 1% of all abortions, per the CDC, reports The New York Times. Even then, these babies are not often healthy. They are not simply wrapped up and handed to their parents: severe birth defects and fatal conditions can keep a child from surviving on their own, or pregnancy complications can put both the mother and the baby at risk of injury or death.
"The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide"
No, he correctly and honestly quoted Democrat VA Governor Ralph Northam as he discussed what would happen under the bill he was proposing. And calling out Evers for his support for murdering born alive babies that survived the first abortion attempt
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timothymeads/2019/04/28/democrats-remain-dumb-deaf-and-blind-on-ralph-northams-infanticide-comments-n2545521
"called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government 'scum,' "
Missed that. But, if true, good for Trump. Gov't officials who misuse national security resources to spy on opposing political candidates, which is what those people did, are "scum". They are "criminal scum", and should all go to jail for their actions.
referred to the assembled media as “sick people,”
A clearly true statement. You all are aware the the Obama Admin misused US Gov't spying capability to spy on a political candidate, and are working hard to cover it up, not expose and shame. You are worthless scum
even admitted his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”...
That's "sick" you nimrod. Which is current slang for "really cool"
And it's a great idea. The only thing better would be to knock down the walls around the houses of every celebrity protesting Trump's wall, or protesting "family separation", or protesting deporting illegal aliens, or protesting border enforcement, and dropping a dozen illegal aliens / "asylum requesters" on the celebrities' property.
After first taking away any private security guards who are protecting those people.
Because if it's good enough for the rest of us, it's good enough for them
Deranged Donald misrepresents what happens in Wisconsin and twists a few facts for a base that eats it up because he narrows the focus to himself.
Deranged Donald= ad hominem attack misrepresents what happens in Wisconsin =great example of an accusation that carries zero specifics twists a few facts for a base =What facts are "twisted" no specifics, on top of being so common across the political spectrum (specifically the media) that it comes across as accusing a person of breathig.narrows the focus to himself= A candidate for office focusing on themself? What are they supposed to do?
The left only supports infanticide in certain,limited circumstances =/= the left does not support infanticide.
The left supports infanticide in certain, limited circumstances = the left DOES support infanticide.
infant (n.)
late 14c., infant, infaunt, "a child," also especially "child during earliest period of life, a newborn" (sometimes meaning a fetus), from Latin infantem (nominative infans) "young child, babe in arms," noun use of adjective meaning "not able to speak,"
He's semantically, technically, morally, if not ethically, correct.
From around one month a human life possesses the form of a "person" and a coherent nervous system. The Chinese had one-child. Their Western counterparts have selective-child. Here's to progress.
"come to believe that constantly battering Trump has produced numbness and even sympathy. That's the effect it has on me." Code for we give up,Trump has beaten us to a pulp. Always reminds me of the analogy of fox (liberal especially like Ann
) vs a roaring lion. The fox who has been surviving and controlling on his sly (faux intelligence) ways all of a sudden is confronted by a roaring lion. The lion doesn't even responds to any of the foxes wily maneuvers. The fox realizing his moves have no effect on the lion and that he will be eaten alive just slithers away. Ann slither back to the OED.
Let's be clear: so long as Democrat oppose laws explicitly protecting babies that have been born alive during an abortion, it is entirely legitimate to call them baby killers.
Once they're out of the womb, it's not "abortion", it's "infanticide." Good for Trump for calling the Democrats on this.
Bad for Althouse for giving them cover
I just ignore Vox. Wonder why that is...
The Pro-Choice code of ethics is two choices too late. Ms. Pro-Choice, tear down the walls.
Yeah, I see the media bending over backwards to treat Trump fairly. What planet does Vox work on?
The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide,
Really? He said Democrats supported infanticide- which some Democrats have done- and the writer is calling it a false accusation?
called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government “scum,”
I call them much worse, as do many online. I can understand his not wanting to use foul language and going mild on the scum in a public setting with children present. I admire his restraint.
referred to the assembled media as “sick people,”
Since the media have a documented record of distorting what he says- well, they are. And they spent over two years pushing the false bare faced lie of COLLUSION! That is really pretty sick, since it was an obvious falsehood from the gitgo.
and even admitted his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”.
And a good idea it is. All the people I talk to on a regular basis support it. Even those who live in the sanctuary cities- who had no voice when their "lawmakers" voted to support "lawbreakers".
"Are the media going soft on Trump? If so, why?"
I guess you pretty much answered this in your own post, but yes, it is because they are finally realizing that by their continuous stupid and dishonest attacks on him, they are turning lukewarm Trump supporters into enthusiastic Trump supporters.
I have said many times, it is hard to make a billionaire who is also POTUS look like an underdog, but our media organizations have managed to do that, to their own detriment.
Hey Trumpit, lets kill people on Welfare as they can't support themselves and lets execute everyone in prison since criminals are worse than useless and most of all, let's kill crazy loons like you. Deadbeats are unwanted, criminals are unwanted and crazies are unwanted.
When a person is constantly beaten down but refuses to fall, his stature rises in the eyes of the public. This is what the media has been doing for Trump. They are playing his game and apparently just now figuring out what the rules are.
The proposals to allow infanticide, and the Democrats unwillingness to roundly condemn it, takes the "pro-choice" people out of their abortion comfort zone. So they convince themselves, or pretend to convince themselves, that those proposals never took place. That way they can wash their hands of the deaths.
severe birth defects and fatal conditions can keep a child from surviving on their own
No human babies can survive on their own. Maybe you're confusing them with snakes.
"Let's be clear: so long as Democrat oppose laws explicitly protecting babies that have been born alive during an abortion, it is entirely legitimate to call them baby killers."
What you write is inflammatory because you make up a sentence "born alive during an abortion." I haven't a clue what you're talking about. If the fetus is being aborted then it is not being "born." I doubt your concern for "unborn babies" extends to pregnant wild animals that are shot or trapped by hunters. You don't give a shit about Bambi, or Boo-Boo Bear though you claim to care about Bamm Bamm and Pebbles. Mind your own business.
roesch/voltaire said...
Deranged Donald misrepresents what happens in Wisconsin and twists a few facts for a base that eats it up because he narrows the focus to himself.
True or false: Evers said he would veto any bill that provides protections for babies born alive during an abortion attempt?
It's true? Then Trump isn't the one "twisting the facts".
"Furthermore, opponents of the “born alive” bill and similar legislation say this is purposely inflammatory dialogue that omits crucial facts. Abortions after 24 weeks — when a healthy fetus is typically viable — are extremely rare and account for less than 1% of all abortions"
So? Then you should have no problem agreeing to the bill, if it would have no effect, no?
They're sick and deformed, then they will die anyway, despite the normal treatment.
"Even then, these babies are not often healthy"
So, you agree that there are, indeed, perfectly healthy babies, who the mother tries to kill, where the kill attempt fails, and the baby is out of mom's womb.
You think they should be able to kill that healthy baby, but claim you're not guilty of supporting infanticide.
Your position is morally and logically equivalent to someone saying "hey, it's no big deal that James Byrd was dragged to death behind a truck. It's only one case! It's not like it happens often!"
When I was in high school in 1980, I read Margaret Sanger speech she gave in the state of New Jersey that was delivered to a crowd of Ku Klux Klan and their sympathizers, I have, since then, understood it has always been about infanticide.
There is a direct line that runs from Sanger and her admirers to the Democrat party of the here and now. Infanticide is now one of the central planks of the Democrat party. No argument.
Trumpit said...
"Let's be clear: so long as Democrat oppose laws explicitly protecting babies that have been born alive during an abortion, it is entirely legitimate to call them baby killers."
What you write is inflammatory because you make up a sentence "born alive during an abortion." I haven't a clue what you're talking about.
Then you should STFU until you've corrected your ignorance.
Mom tries to abort baby. Bay makes it out of mom's womb, still alive
That baby has been "born alive" by any reasonable defintion of "baby", "born", and "alive".
Of, and Trumpit, how many illegal aliens, and how many "asylum claimants", are you supporting in your home? 0?
Then by your rules, you're not allowed to oppose deporting them, building a wall to keep them out, separating them at the border, etc.
... and that generates powerful feelings that abortion-rights proponents may fear.
Abortion "rights" (scare quotes intentional) are untouchable rights, much more than the acknowledged right to keep and bear arms, which is only one of the resemblances of the American pro-abortion subculture to the pro-slavery subculture of the antebellum South. Both flourish by dehumanizing its victims and both are only content when the supposed right expands in scope and political power. Perhaps this is because the advocates of both subcultures know that any restriction will eventually usher in its final doom.
Jack Klompus said...
Let's all take someone who writes for Vox seriously, shall we?
My thoughts exactly. When is a Vox piece not a) "Orange Man Bad," and b) poorly written and reasoned dreck?
Trumpit, what part of ""The infant would be delivered," in Gov. Northrup's statement do you not understand? "... the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."
They're sick and deformed, then they will die anyway
That would be a natural death, and happens too often. Most notably at an old age that signals the end of evolution for most human lives. Elective abortion is premeditated or planned for social progress and recycled-child for scientific progress.
"Coverage of Trump’s latest rally shows how major media outlets normalize his worst excesses."
As opposed to "normalizing" infanticide. That's perfectly acceptable.
I thought that the baseline right-to-life position was aborting a fetus at any point was infanticide.
And the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem.
If only kids still came home to watch the ABC After School Specials...
You are good Germans.
Thanks. I almost invented the diesel engine.
++
Hitler walks into his meeting room, turns to his trusted staff and says, "I want you to organize the execution of 10,000 Jews and a kitten."
Everyone looks around the table and, after a long silence, Goering pipes up. "Mein Führer, why do you want to execute a kitten?"
Hitler smiles and turns to the rest of the table. "You see, no one cares about the Jews."
The "Free Women From The Horrors of Motherhood When Killing The kid is Legal" group wants to be called heroes for killing live babies. And Bad Orange Man must sit down and shut up about it.
Only the Mother and the Baby Parts Sellers that grow rich off the parts business have any say in this. It's right there in the Constitution written in invisible ink.
They aren't softening on him, they just find that things they want to call lies are not really lies--like that more than a few Democrats have taken positions that logically imply infanticide, or that much of the media lied about him, lied about "collusion," and so forth.
Of course, if you're Vox, anything short of full-blown TDS is going soft on him.
r/v wrote: Even then, these babies are not often healthy...
There's an Aktion T4 for that.
I should point out that my name is actually "Fernandistein's Monster".
I thought that the baseline right-to-life position was aborting a fetus at any point was infanticide.
It is. That's not the problem. The problem is that the pro-abortion position is that allowing a newborn to die from neglect isn't.
Are the media going soft on Trump?
It's the end of the third quarter and the bench players are in the game to give the starters a rest.
The fourth quarter is going to be very intense and the MSM need everything the starters can give to the effort.
4th trimester abortions are hard to defend.
Yes and the fourth trimester might extend to kindergarten,
trumpet finally says something sane.
All unwanted babies should be dumped at the home of a right-winger who opposes abortion.
Yes, there are thousands of couples who would love to adopt an American baby. Instead they have to go to China or Russia or Romania to find adoptable babies.
Walls are immoral. Infanticide is moral. OK then.
And the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem. To expose the misrepresentation, you must focus on the death of infants, and that generates powerful feelings that abortion-rights proponents may fear.
The media has been hiding the bodies for a long time. All any Republican has to do in any discussion with any journalist is ask them why they have never published a photograph of an aborted baby in 45 years of so-called "journalism."
the collective left are reactionary asses. Common sense restrictions on abortion send them to the other end of the spectrum.
Hard to say that Trump's statement re infanticide is a "lie" or even a misrepresentation. I've forgotten whether it was Pelosi or some other unhinged female Democrat congressman or Senator from California who said that an infant was not a person or entitled to being treated as a human being until it left the hospital. People--including unhinged Democrat congress critters or governors for that matter, are entitled to their opinions. And I'm entitled to mine. Re late term abortions, or post birth "wrap up, leave them on the shelf" ala Obama in Illinois, my opinion is that people who support those positions are moral degenerates.
If I was lace curtain Irish--and I'm not, I'd sniff, "Those are not our sort of people dear."
AA: Are the media going soft on Trump? If so, why? I suspect that if they are lightening up, it's because they've come to believe that constantly battering Trump has produced numbness and even sympathy.
It's a better look than the "Well, I never!!!!" silliness from which venues like Vox can't seem to extricate themselves. (Of which this Rupar guy's article is a fine example.)
The hysterical ninny vote is already in the bag, and there aren't enough of them to make continually truckling to them worth the bother.
Only the Mother and the Baby Parts Sellers that grow rich off the parts business have any say in this. It's right there in the Constitution written in invisible ink.
Ah, the Twilight (a.k.a. "penumbra") Amendment... social justice that built the tomb of the unknown baby... fetus. Elective or planned abortion is anthropogenic. Science is a philosophy and practice in the near-domain and not a liberal meme. Morality is not a code of ethics. The tell-tale hearts beat ever louder.
The punishment for partial-birth abortion in Texas at the time of Roe v. Wade was life in prison.
Roe v. Wade says explicitly that it was not overturning that part of the statute.
The Texas statutes that concern us here are Arts. 1191-1194 and 1196 of the State's penal code.
Obviously the Supreme Court excluded 1195 from their opinion. And what does article 1195 of the criminal statute say?
From the first footnote in the case...
Art. 1195. Destroying unborn child
"Whoever shall during parturition of the mother destroy the vitality or life in a child in a state of being born and before actual birth, which child would otherwise have been born alive, shall be confined in the penitentiary for life or for not less than five years."
I read that to mean abortion while "a child (is) in a state of being born" (a.k.a. partial-birth abortion) is punishable by life in prison. Thus the people of Texas, and maybe the Supreme Court as well, considered in 1973 that killing a baby in the middle of birth was very similar to murder. Which is why the Court excluded that part of the criminal statute from its opinion.
Of course, the Supreme Court had no idea how risky late-term abortion was. It turns out that killing a baby inside a uterus can be very dangerous to the mom. Inducing birth was safer than doing an abortion. But instead of inducing birth and keeping the baby alive--or trying to keep the baby alive--the doctors started inducing birth and killing babies in the middle of birth. This is how a crime that was seen as just like murder became a "constitutional right" 27 years later.
The media's failure to report honestly and openly about the violence of abortion is similar to the media's dishonest reporting of all of Stalin's homicides in the Ukraine. The media didn't want to believe it. And so the truth was denied, hidden, repressed, for decades.
"I guess you pretty much answered this in your own post, but yes, it is because they are finally realizing that by their continuous stupid and dishonest attacks on him, they are turning lukewarm Trump supporters into enthusiastic Trump supporters."
I judge politicians by results, not by how eloquent and soaring their promises are. I voted for Trump because I couldn't stand Hillary, especially after the security compromises she directly approved of and condoned, and the 8 years of stagnation under Obama.
Trump was an unknown quantity, but at least he had SOME actual real-world accomplishments under his belt so how bad could he be?
And the answer was - "Holy shit, my 401k's through the roof, economy's taken off, NK's at least pretending to talk to SK, we're negotiating to sell RICE to friggin' CHINA and JAPAN, ISIS is pounded to a pulp, and unemployment is at record LOW levels across the board."
If those are 'excesses', I'll take more of them.
I was lukewarm, but now I'm enthusiastic. And I'm looking at the Dems and going "WTF do THEY have to offer? 3rd term abortion? Promises I know they have no intention of keeping? Plans that'll hurt me a lot more than they'll help?"
Yeah, that's not gonna work for me. I'm seeing how someone who's used to getting things done is getting things done, as opposed to our Elite Political Class who don't have any problems at all with promising and never delivering on it - or having things 'unexpectedly' go bad when they do.
I guess she's be a more zaftig patty davis is an alternate reality,
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/04/ilhan-omar-laughs-off-meghan-mccains-anti-semitism-criticism-oh-bless-her-heart/
Trump haters are in the position of arguing the definition of "kill".
Their hate for Trump is so extreme, many who believe that letting a live baby die is not right must argue it is ok in order to disagree with Trump. Kinda uncomfortable position , if you have a conscience or common sense.
The big thing, though, is that NYT, whose stories feed smaller MSM outlets, fact checking Trump, brings the conversation to many average people who are ignorant of the facts of late term abortion and the Va. governors statement.
indeed, Robert conquest tried to bring the story to light in the 70s, based on his experience with the international research department, and Applebaum, about four decades later in red famine, you still find holomodor deniers like grover furr of Montclair state, and of course Nellie ohr's thesis advisors at Harvard.
What a vile human being you are Trumpit. Do you realize your rhetoric does more to advance the cause of conservatism than liberalism? It does not convince a conservative, it will not convince a liberal, but it will drive moderates away from your viewpoint as they see the lack of humanity and reason in every vitriolic, hateful post.
All unwanted babies should be dumped at the home of a right-winger who opposes abortion.
I've adopted 6 babies, and not the perfect cherubic bundles of joy, but children with mild to moderate physical needs. I put my money where my mouth is, and I'd adopt more if the cost to adopt and the bureaucratic nightmare involved were not so onerous. Dump a few children on me, please. I know a few others who would feel the same, and I am sure there are enough of us to accommodate every "unwanted" child, and hence there would BE no unwanted child. Now, as soon as all the liberals are willing to park some migrants from the south in their basements and garages, I might take some of your positions to heart.
But you just keep on being an equine patoot and demonstrate the rank hypocrisy of the left. It is clear you don't care about people, you just care about demonizing your fellow citizens with no regard for truth or compassion.
Definitely not Inga. Not craving..
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The good German people also became numb to the efforts to reveal what Hitler really was. You are good Germans.
Trumpit said...
Stop hiding in front of your TV that's stuck on Fox News channel.
Wrong. OAN
In Latin, Vox means voice.
In English, it means Leftist lie-babies.
The pro-infanticide Progressives have been at this for over a century now.
Google Dr. Harry J. Haiselden and the movie he made and starred in, The Black Stork.
Dr. Haiselden was a eugenicist, and justified infanticide on those grounds. Today's Progressives have to use a more palatable justification, but at its core, it is the same argument.
RE:"And the post-birth abortion lie is a very special problem".
I need some help.
Can someone explain to me (I promise I will not argue with you) how someone thinks that what Trump said is a lie?
I saw the video of Ralph Northam. It seemed clear to me what he meant. How is Trump's characterization a "lie"?
And, to be clear, you can think that Trump was not lying, but if you could explain to me how people (presumably Pro-Choice) could think his comments are a lie I would really like to know. Please and thank you.
Trumpit,
RE: "What you write is inflammatory because you make up a sentence "born alive during an abortion." I haven't a clue what you're talking about. "
Assume a woman goes into a clinic for an abortion and in the middle of the abortion process, extracting the not yet born human life the woman sneezes and the human lifeform exits the womb, and slips through the care providers hand to the floor and once it does it starts crying.
A. Is the human life form on the floor a baby?
B. What should be done to that lifeform?
yet the very outlets Trump demeans continue to bend over backward to cover him in the most favorable possible light.
There is simply no way to address this level of insanity. One can ignore it - or point and laugh - but it's still out there.
And the worst part? People actually believe this crap.
The good German people also became numb to the efforts to reveal what Hitler really was. You are good Germans.
The Hitler Card. That's new and fresh.
Sick burn.
Please ignore Trumpit. She is either a parody sock puppet or a congenital idiot with unsupervised access to a device. Engaging her foam-flecked banalities only degrades the conversation.
The abortion thing is going to bite Democrats as they have trouble finding any limit.
There used to be a thing called "moderation" but it has gone to the same place manners went.
If they don't look out, Democrats are going to piss off enough people that reversing Roe v Wade will seem reasonable.
A. Is the human life form on the floor a baby?
B. What should be done to that lifeform?
You have too much time on your hands if that's what your worried about. Get yourself one of the new jobs Trump created sweeping abortion clinic floors. Make yourself useful.
Trumpit is performance art.
You people are being trolled.
I still don't see an explanation for how Trump's comments about infanticide were inaccurate. That is what Northam said. Isn't it?
What makes it really difficult is it is hard to tell the difference between a moby and someone who defends infanticide like democrats.
I don't think most democrat voters would support infanticide if they thought about it for a second. But they don't think. They just mouth the talking points given to them by their masters.
But they are not alone.
Republican voters used to do the same thing. We voted for people who didn't really want want we wanted. People like Mitt Romney. Marco Rubio. Paul Ryan. Any Bush you want to name. We got all sorts of Amnesty and Open Borders and Free Trade from uniparty cucks.
Remember the first leader to write and pass Obamacare was a uniparty cuck.
Medicare part B was passed by a house, senate, and executive controlled by uniparty cucks.
And you all voted for them for the most part.
Everyone needs to be self aware and honest with themselves.
reversing Roe v Wade will seem reasonable.
You should support the overturning of Roe even if you are pro-abortion. It is simply bad law and even worse reasoning. Easily in the top five of worst Supreme Court decisions ever.
Everyone needs to be self aware and honest with themselves [sic].
Yes, indeed, and we should have world peace and $1/gallon gasoline.
Minnesota has 10,000 lakes, and Trump has 10,000 lies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfFvzXbtBe0
Minnesota has 10,000 lakes, and Trump has 10,000 lies.
You keep shilling long after everyone has left the arena. Bless your heart, dear.
Althouse won't defend her statement because it is indefensible.
By that I mean, either you believe that a fetus is a person or not a person. And if a fetus 'finds its way out early' because of the actions of the mother...now the Abortion Rights people have a problem, because they have long asserted, loudly and consistently, that when that baby leaves the birth canal, NOW it is a person.
Because otherwise, how is anyone not 'abortable'?
Essentially, the mother is asserting the same rights over that fetus as a slave holder had over Uncle Tom: his/her personhood relies on her whims, and not a legal point.
This was easily foreseeable by anyone with a brain and a pulse but now the Left and Abortion Rights activists have a MAJOR PR problem.
But they have never been very good on 'personhood' for people they don't like or don't want around (see Jews, Gypsies, the non-photogenic crippled, Conservatives, children, etc).
GatorNavy @11:53: Sanger was about eugenics -- that included abortion, forced sterilization and infanticide. She hated the black race, and any people who were less than she was in the brain department and white skin department. A true racist, she was. Hitler publicly admired her, by the way, and her theories as to who should live and reproduce were gleefully imported to Germany, and fondly thought of in the rest of western Europe.
It's peculiar that the left calls the conservatives Nazis and at the same time defend and promote abortion and infanticide when the vast majority of babies killed are black. Vast majority by the millions. I fail to see how anyone can, without indulging true hyprocracy, defend abortion and infanticide. Yet, white and educated people praise Sanger to the very day (the likes of Hillary come to mind). We are practicing eugenics today, and have made it the law of the land -- just as it was done in Hitler's Germany.
When will the black population of American understand that eugenics is alive and well in the U.S and that abortion and infanticide is just lipstick on a pig?
You should support the overturning of Roe even if you are pro-abortion.
I do. I did abortions in 1969, three years before Roe. I still support the right in the first trimester for the reasons that abortions need to be available for desperate women. I have seen them and watched a few die when I was a medical student.
Roe v Wade is bad law but the abortion lobby, which has become very rich and powerful, insists no one has the right to control abortion. Another branch of the Deep State.
Can someone explain to me (I promise I will not argue with you) how someone thinks that what Trump said is a lie?
They think Trump meant women given birth in a hospital. Trump said something like: "The baby comes out, they wrap her up tenderly, they decide if they should execute it." They don't think you're talking about an illegal abortion doctor/ clinic like Gossnell.
They think you believe neo-natal nurses and doctors in hospital execute babies after labor and birth. They think you are saying that babies who are born dying because of brain tumors, or babies they can't save in a neo-natal unit -- they think you are saying that doctors and nurses in the neo-nate execute babies. So they think you're calling these doctors and nurses in hospitals and the neo-natal groups, when they try and cannot save save the babies -- they think you're calling them & the parents murderers of their dead infants.
Somebody, maybe Camille Paglia, a few years ago, said that abortion should stay legal but that women who have one must acknowledge they are killing an individual.
I agree with that.
when they try and cannot save save the babies
That's not what Northam said. You have to admit that he said what he said.
Then we can talk.
If a human life is aborted... planned behind ethically-urbane walls of politics, games, and beliefs, was she ever alive? Does a human life need to be labeled before she acquires and retains the right to life? A right to due process? A right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment? A right to keep her arms, and her head, too? For advocates of selective-child and other bigotry, there has been great progress since the 20th century under the Pro-Choice (e.g. wicked solution, two choices too late) code of ethics and Twilight Amendment to The Constitution, not limited to national borders. One step forward. Two steps backward. A human life from conception. A "person" with a coherent nervous system from around one month. #HateLovesAbortion
Elective abortion refers to premeditated or planned termination of a viable human life. Pro-Choicers need to recognize the fine line separating a witch trial and Nature's choice (e.g. terminal condition), and reconcile the rights, not rites, of mother, father, and child.
I'm pro-life -- way more then you, sounds like. I'm telling you what they think & how they are interpreting Trump's speech. They think he's talking about hospitals, not abortion clinics.
At this point media is so closed off the stories aren't getting through. I want to change hearts & minds. & I'm telling you what they think here: They think Trump is talking about hospitals and neo-natal nurses. They think Trump is saying that doctors and neo-natal nurses kill babies.
The problem that the Democrats have is that not only did the governor seem to admit that post-birth babies are killed, but the Repubs also have on video the Democratic VA legislator, Kathy Tran admitting that her own bill permitted 3rd trimester abortions, even up to birth.
Here's the article, with the video embedded in the middle of the article. How is it an "ambush" to quote someone?
It's unclear to me from this post what Althouse thinks. Althouse may think that Trump was referring to doctors in hospitals and neo-natal nurses, and not someone like Gossnell.
YoungHegelian,
Media stories are so isolated to one group or another, they aren't much getting out to the general public. Many have not followed the Virginia story & don't much know about it. They haven't followed it or heard about it if they aren't pro-life and following the news. Most people aren't newsies & only read headlines or watch briefly.
Obama and Biden sc4rewed the middle class.
Biden will now promise to be a champion of the middle class, all while he hikes middle cl;ass taxes.
@wwww,
Many have not followed the Virginia story & don't much know about it.
Well, the facts are the facts, and the case of what the legislator & the governor actually said is not difficult to discover. It's inconvenient for the Democrats, but that's all.
There are many situations where it's difficult to determine what exactly the facts are. This isn't one of them.
People either want to be informed or they don't. I can't believe a couple of Google searches are too much to ask for any person who actually gives a shit about the topic.
People either want to be informed or they don't. I can't believe a couple of Google searches are too much to ask for any person who actually gives a shit about the topic.
It's media isolation. News doesn't break through into different zones of news consumption.
I don't know what wwww is talking about.
They want to let babies die if they are accidently born. No woman is going to go through the trauma of birth just to kill it at the last minute...or at least so few as to be incredibly rare.
But the Democrats lied about when a person is a person...and now they are being shown for the lie.
This is inconvenient for Althouse.
They think Trump is saying that doctors and neo-natal nurses kill babies.
Northam is a doctor. Did you not know that ? The left and the Media, but I repeat myself, DO NOT WANT you to know those things,
Michael,
Stop talking to me as if I need to be convinced.
I followed the story. I know who Northam is. Most of these people have never heard of Northam -- a bunch of them. They heard Trump's words and they think he's talking about doctors in hospitals delivering babies with neo-natal nurses. A bunch of them have never heard of Gossnell. They think Trump is talking about hospital births.
A poster asked what these people are thinking & how they could think Trump is lying.
THIS is what those people are thinking. They think Trump is saying that doctors kill babies in hospitals with neo-natal nurses involved after a planned birth. They think Trump is talking about the babies that don't survive in the neo-natal centers. They think Trump, for some reason, thinks that doctors are killing babies. They think he's talking about babies that die in neo-natal centers.
@wwww,
They think Trump, for some reason, thinks that doctors are killing babies.
But, this is exactly what Gov. Northam was talking about! Doctors & neo-natal nurses & the mother quietly deciding that for whatever reason the baby should be euthanized, and then doing it. Not abortion clinics, but OB-GYNs at hospitals.
I'm now with FIDO & MikeK -- wwww, what are you trying to say?
It's impossible to change hearts and minds if we don't comprehend what is being misunderstood.
A lot of people think Trump is referring to hospital births with neo-natal capacity. They think Trump mean that after the birth, the doctor wraps up the baby carefully and lovingly, and then talks to the mother, father and nurses about murdering the baby. In a hospital. With neo-natal capacity.
They do not know that Trump is talking about Gossnell or abortion clinics. They think he's talking about murders at hospitals that are presently occurring with doctors, nurses and mothers & fathers all conspiring to murder newborns in the neo-natal units.
@wwww,
They think he's talking about murders at hospitals that are presently occurring with doctors, nurses and mothers & fathers all conspiring to murder newborns in the neo-natal units.
Who cares about what Trump said! That is exactly what Gov. Northam was discussing, & exactly what Rep. Tran's bill permitted! Do you think rep. Tran's bill made a distinction according to medical facility?
I'm now with FIDO & MikeK -- wwww, what are you trying to say?
I think Trump is talking about doctors like Gossnell who murders babies in clinics. I've got relatives who work in hospitals. There's lots of oversight. Hospitals don't murder babies. I'm unclear what you're trying to say. Do you think hospitals murder babies? Are you kidding me? There's tons of oversight in the labor ward. How do you think they'd get away with it?
Hospitals review deaths, and there's a lot of attention about how to save babies in neo-natal centers. Other doctors and nurses aren't going to ignore a murder.
"Coverage of Trump’s latest rally shows how major media outlets normalize his worst excesses."
Why is it that Trump's worst excesses always seem to be made up by the media?
If printing the lies is normalizing Trump, the media is in one hell of a fix.
@wwww,
Do you think hospitals murder babies? Are you kidding me?
Why ask me? I'm an IT geek. Ask Governor, formerly Doctor, Northam why he said hospitals euthanize babies.
We are talking here about what was said & by whom. Gov. Northam publicly discussed euthanizing a post-birth baby at a hospital. Rep. Tran's bill permitted, in her own words, late third trimester abortions.
How often does this actually happen? I imagine more often than we care to admit, but who knows? Who would have admitted to practices such as Gosnell's or Tiller's? Do you think that there are no longer abortion practices such as these two doctors ran?
Delusional Deplorables and Deranged Donald together, the gift that keeps on giving.
Other doctors and nurses aren't going to ignore a murder.
You'd think they wouldn't normalize murder either but they clearly did so. Apparently calling murder an abortion causes them to think differently.
You might apply this knowledge to your comment rather than wishcasting.
@anonymous,
Delusional Deplorables and Deranged Donald together, the gift that keeps on giving.
Ah, another drive-by lefty who thinks that an attempt at a cutting witticism actually passes for an argument.
Admit it. In your heart of hearts, you actually do think that.
Read the proposed Born Alive Act.
The idea was to move any births/labors from a clinic INTO a hospital. NO, hospitals don't allow people to murder babies. Think about it. There's tons of review, particularly of deaths. Especially of the deaths of babies. Hospitals try to improve birth outcomes for neo-nates. It's murder & there's the concern about criminal penalties, not to mention the hospital administrators and their concern about insurance and accreditation.
Rick,
Do you really think American hospitals are killing babies? You know hospitals don't do abortions, right?
Allow me to politely clarify (is it that time of year again?)
wwww, I am not suggesting that hospitals do not have oversight. I am not suggesting that a majority of neo-natal anything would be okay with infanticide. I am not suggesting that this is a main stream idea...yet!
I am saying that you are incorrect at how the public is taking this. Trump says that Dems favor infanticide...and this is true for some and it is a growing Lefty talking point. No one serious is breathlessly thinking he means all doctors everywhere which you seem to be asserting. You are responsible for how you take it...and I am responsible for how I take it.
And if there were a botched abortion in a neo-natal unit...would they try to save its life or...have a conversation? Do we know what the position of the law and the hospital administration is? So the idea that it is beyond the pale to suggest a neo-natal unit would LET A BORN FETUS DIE is not out of bounds and frankly a discussion that needs to be forced on Democrats and Ms. Althouse to defend instead of just write off as a lie.
Frankly, it is probably not a conversation she relishes.
@wwww,
Think about it. There's tons of review, particularly of deaths
Then, tell us, wwww, what was Gov Northam talking about? Is Gov Northam delusional, and given to muttering nonsensical things in public? Are we somehow misunderstanding what appear to us to be his plain meaning?
Forget about your fixation on what actually happens or not in neo-natal wards. Tell us what you think Gov. Northam was talking about.
wwww
WaPo (and they KNOW abortion!)
About 4 percent of the nation’s pregnancy terminations take place in hospitals, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive rights think tank, and hospitals comprise more than a third of the nation’s abortion providers. Most do this work quietly, compared to the more visible standalone clinics such as Planned Parenthood.
But a legal complaint filed this week on behalf of Diane J. Horvath-Cosper, an obstetrician-gynecologist at MedStar Washington Hospital Center in the District and an outspoken abortion rights supporter, has shined a bright and, in the case of MedStar, unwelcome light on this little-known function of hospitals.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/04/yes-hospitals-do-abortions-this-washington-doctor-says-her-hospital-forces-her-to-keep-it-quiet/?utm_term=.a2ba2c19b501
NO, hospitals don't allow people to murder babies. Think about it. There's tons of review, particularly of deaths. Especially of the deaths of babies.
This misdirection is pretty amusing. Of course hospitals review deaths of babies. But to them the results of abortions aren't babies. It's almost like this is the exact point of disagreement. Why would someone tout a review process that would not be applied to the circumstances under discussion?
“Do you really think American hospitals are killing babies? You know hospitals don't do abortions, right?”
Why bother reasoning with them? They are too far down Trump’s rabbit hole.
You know hospitals don't do abortions, right?
What a ridiculous assertion.
@DDDD,
Why bother reasoning with them? They are too far down Trump’s rabbit hole.
Yet another lefty drive by with no arguments, just an ad hominem.
One phenomenon I've noticed in the course of my life (also noticed by Roger Simon) is just how stupid the average lefty has become. In the good ole days of the Marxist Left, you actually needed a brain to understand Marxism. Now, with the advent of post-Marxist Identity Politics all you need are your "lived experiences", and you can safely lecture the rest of us on our yuuuuuuuge moral failings.
About 4 percent of the nation’s pregnancy terminations take place in hospitals, according to the Guttmacher Institute,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/04/yes-hospitals-do-abortions-this-washington-doctor-says-her-hospital-forces-her-to-keep-it-quiet/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f9fa8e53b6f3
So...96% of all abortions are not done in hospitals.
Hah - it took 30 seconds for two of us to find the facts referenced in the notorious right wing echo chamber WAPO.
But continue your lecture. Only we will be concerned with facts.
"Althouse won't defend her statement because it is indefensible." FIDO Said. From what I read -I think Althouse gets it there is a dead baby. She seems OK with calling out the hyperbole on the right out but not the hyperbole from the left. If a being is born alive and medical care could save it and you let die is it not at best euthanasia mercy killing? In the end a decision is made to kill.
Althouse is usually the word person with definitions. The word lie is paramount here. Those that are saying killing or letting a baby born alive die, is execution or murder are perhaps "misrepresenting" Althouse, The bigger lie is those that tell us it is not killing or never wrong for a women and her doctor to kill the child. In the end the FOCUS is on death - optional death. The unvarnished truth - dead baby call it what you want. The baby does not care.
@DDDD,
So...96% of all abortions are not done in hospitals.
So.... you think that for a medical procedure that doctors are asked by hospitals to keep on the QT that a low figure like 4% which is a first pass figure arrived at the Guttmacher Institute is correct?
That a procedure that hospitals publicly claim not to do at all is found at first investigation to be 4% of such procedures done, and that's the end of it?
Really?
wwww, Thanks for answering my question, I never thought that those calling Trump a liar thought of it that way.
"The president falsely accused Democrats of supporting infanticide, called the FBI and Justice Department leaders he’s purged from government “scum,” referred to the assembled media as “sick people,” and even admitted his proposal to punish blue states by relocating undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities was “actually my sick idea.”"
-- This is part of the left and right not even trying to have a common language. I dislike abortion, but am willing to let it be legal. But, when doctors and governors are discussing how they might let actual living, breathing babies die because they survived an abortion, I move much closer to wanting to further limit abortion because the people in power are showing they cannot be trusted.
Given what Comey and others have called Trump, I don't see why we don't expect Trump to fire back. Punching at the media is punching down, but, all politicians do it. As for "punishing" sanctuary cities with undocumented immigrants -- I think the point was that Trump wanted them to accept that it WASN'T all sunlight and rainbows. They proved his point; they don't want them either.
Trumpit is performance art.
Nope. As I've said before, I've read way too many letters to the Editor from people just like her.
"National Democrats have had ample opportunity to denounce Governor Northam for supporting third-trimester abortion, but so far have only expressed outrage at his undergraduate hijinks in blackface."
-- More like "mild shock."
Hospitals review deaths, and there's a lot of attention about how to save babies in neo-natal centers. Other doctors and nurses aren't going to ignore a murder.
You seem to be having trouble with the fact that Northam, who is a pediatric neurologist, described a full term delivery followed by a decision whether to allow it to live. Trump didn't say that, Northam did. Hospitals are obliged to perform abortions by a law, possibly a EO by Obama, and they do. There was some pushback by doctors and nurses who objected but they were slapped down by Obama and the abortion industry.
By the way, some abortion clinics do very late abortions, not just Gosnell.
wwww, Thanks for answering my question, I never thought that those calling Trump a liar thought of it that way.
You're welcome. It has been kind of stressful. I'm a member of some high risk pregnancy support groups; I know too many people who have been in emergency and horrific situations. Do you understand why people think American hospitals do abortions? I'm confused by several responses on this thread.
Michael,
I was asked why some people thought Trump was lying. I explained why some people thought that. I know what Northam said. That does not mean
(1) that Lots of other people were tuned in and hear Northam
(2) That hospitals murder babies in labor wards
Millions of people didn't follow that Virginia story. Millions of people have never heard the name Northam. You're a news junkie and the majority of the population is not. So, they don't know what' Trump is talking about and they're assuming labor wards in hospitals.
Hospitals are obliged to perform abortions by a law, possibly a EO by Obama, and they do.
Not only is this statement an outright lie with absolutely no basis in fact but it is internally contradictory. An EO is not a law and a law is not an EO.
The people in the neonatal care unit do heroic things. They are not murderers.
And as a Doctor, you can't (or shouldn't) even claim "I thought that was the law".
Yoo-Hoo Freder,
Google is your friend.
So, tell us again, why does a judge block a legal mandate that doesn't exist?
Askin' for a friend.
Hospitals review deaths, and there's a lot of attention about how to save babies in neo-natal centers. Other doctors and nurses aren't going to ignore a murder.
The bill signed by NY State precisely provides legal cover to extinguish the life of a live baby surviving an abortion. You are going to have to play with sematics of what is or isn't qualifying actions of an abortion.
Then, tell us, wwww, what was Gov Northam talking about? Is Gov Northam delusional, and given to muttering nonsensical things in public? Are we somehow misunderstanding what appear to us to be his plain meaning?
I don't know what he meant; I don't support him.
I am positive about this: Hospitals in America do not murder babies. The people who work in labor wards and neonatal units are heroes. I'm shocked as to why you would think the doctors and nurses in American labor wards and neonatal units murder babies. But, perhaps I have misunderstood you and you do not believe that American hospitals murder babies.
The bill signed by NY State precisely provides legal cover to extinguish the life of a live baby surviving an abortion. You are going to have to play with sematics of what is or isn't qualifying actions of an abortion.
I'm talking about American hospitals, not abortion clinics. It's murder to kill a baby. Anybody giving birth in a hospital is in a LABOR WARD. Labor wards don't kill newborn babies.
But, perhaps I have misunderstood you and you do not believe that American hospitals murder babies.
Hospitals might not, but abortion mills sure as Hell do.
I am confused as to why people think abortions and murders are occurring, legally, in American labor wards in American hospitals. I'm confused why people think labor room doctors and neonatal nurses are killing infants.
The proposed Born Alive Act wanted require that any labor situations or medical emergency situations be moved to hospitals precisely because of these concerns & to prevent another Gossnell. I think Trump was talking about clinics, not about American labor wards in hospitals.
During labor, everyone rushes in if they're doing a crash-C. Belly monitoring is standard. Doctors know when the baby is in distress. They do everything possible to save him. Lots of people run into the room. The baby is rushed into neonatal care. There is no discussion. Everyone is running about. It would be impossible to keep a murder secret.
Hospitals might not, but abortion mills sure as Hell do.
Some people in this thread do not think there is a difference --which I find shocking.
@wwww,
I don't know what he meant; I don't support him.
You don't support him?! What sort of a non-sequitur is that?
What he meant is what he said. That he, as a pediatric neurologist had witnessed & participated in the euthanasia of at least one newborn.
I have no idea why you feel it's so important to make heroes of the OB-GYNs & the neonatal units. You said that hospitals do not do abortions. Evidence was presented by both Dr. Mike & links to a Guttmacher study that said the opposite, as was a link I posted that had the Obama admin using the force of the Federal government to insure that abortions were performed at hospitals.
Sometimes doctors on the front line of medicine have to make very hard decisions. You are probably white, middle class, & fairly functional. You are probably close to a perfect patient. But, neo-natal specialists have to deal with cases of patients who are in terrible physical shape (e.g. overweight), borderline retarded, multiple STDs, no idea who the father is, who probably would have difficulty taking care of a pet hamster, and who has now delivered a baby with multiple physical issues that will require years of specialized care with little chance of ever having a good quality of life.
Neo-natal wards in places like Baltimore or Appalachian coal towns have patients like this all the time. And you ask me if I think doctors on the front lines with patients like this sometimes practice euthanasia. I say "hell, yes, they do", and even I, as a Catholic opposed to abortion & euthanasia, understand why they do. What decision would I make in that case? I'm glad I'm not the soldier on point forced to make the decision is all I have to say.
wwww,
"I am confused as to why people think abortions and murders are occurring, legally, in American labor wards in American hospitals. I'm confused why people think labor room doctors and neonatal nurses are killing infants. "
IMHO, largely because of Northam. There was an abortion bill pending before the VA House of Delegates (or whatever they call themselves). governor Northam was on a radio show and the host asked some polite but direct questions.
From VOX (yeah, I know):
Gov. Northam, a Democrat, was asked about the bill in a radio interview on Wednesday, and his response only added to the controversy. Appearing to discuss what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion, he said, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
It is easy (for many people) to conclude that the "discussion" would be about the continued life of the infant.
Also, from that VOX article it says that all abortions after the first trimester need to occur in a hosptial. So, given that requirement and Northam's comments it is easy to understand why there are people that believe there are abortions in hosptials, and with Gov. Northam at the helm easy to believe that had the bill become law that there are infants that would be allowed to die.
Link to article.
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/1/18205428/virginia-abortion-bill-kathy-tran-ralph-northam
you want us to take you seriously, you don't cite vox except in tv and movie reviews, and to ridicule that decanted juicebox posse,
I am confused as to why people think abortions and murders are occurring, legally, in American labor wards in American hospitals.
Only you are asserting they happen "American in labor wards". I'm enjoying this case study in how people convince themselves others are extreme by inventing the extreme language which proves their views false.
Do you understand why people think American hospitals do abortions?
Because they do. It's revealing you refuse to follow the links.
Some people in this thread do not think there is a difference --which I find shocking.
Again, you are conflating things and getting it wrong, maybe on purpose.
When I stared in practice in 1972, abortion was legal but St Joseph's Hospital in Burbank, CA did not do them. It was a Catholic hospital and did not do them for religious reasons.
Years later, the hospital where I practiced for 30 years was sold to nuns. They ruined it but that is another story. When Obama required abortions be done, they started doing them in the surgery center owned by the hospital. Some nurses declined to participate and the hospital accommodated them but there was pushback.
I'm sorry but you just don't know what you aren talking about.
The Democrats - and it clearly was a Dem style hit - quickly tried to discredit Northam with that black-face picture after he spoke too truthfully about - and dashed Dems' planned incrementalism on - abortion. Didn't work. Trump is correctly summarizing Northam's comments. Looking forward to his discussion of the New York statehouse erupting in cheers at the signing of authorization for abortion nearly up to birth. Better baby parts should drive better sales.
wwww, ever wonder if Mengele ever saved anyone's life? Could you see that people could do both good - even heroic - things and, especially if compelled to by state licensing boards and state statutes and federal funding strings, evil things?
In phillip Kerr's take on mengele, he was not only a mass murderer, but an abortionist in late weimar Germany
“Aborted” survivors were being left to die in Illinois hospitals prior to 2008. Obama refused to oppose this infanticide. When pro-life activists raised the issue, he and his campaign lied about his position on the legislation and the media covered for him.
Infanticide is a Democrat issue, not a fabricated issue.
You have to realize how many abortions 1% is. There were 638,169 abortions in 2015 so 1% is 6,381. Only about 2% of the late term abortions are because a major fetal defect has just been found. Most are because social or economic circumstances have changed. So these are healthy babies likely to born alive in a third term abortion and able to survive - 6,000 cases a year. 60,000 cases in ten years. 240,000 cases in forty years.
These late term abortions are very often done in hospitals as the procedure is risky to the mother. Basically labor is induced but the unborn child is supposed to be killed just before labor is induced. Since this involves poisoning the child (who is viable at 24 weeks) there is risk to the mother of an effect from the poisoning. Yet if the child is delivered by normal labor it might be born alive. It has to be killed on the way out if it isn't poisoned in the womb. To repeat - 6,000 cases a year. 60,000 cases in ten years. 240,000 cases in forty years. It would be easier to induce labor, deliver the (viable) child and kill it then and this is what they are trying to legalize. And this would be infanticide.
If Governor Northam wants to say that he has only attended late term abortion cases where at 24 weeks there was a suddenly discovered major unsurvivable neurological fetal defect, that is possible. It's not at all common in the era of ultrasound and it isn't the reason for the majority of the hundreds of thousands of late-term abortions since 1973. The two situations should not be confused.
Yoo-Hoo Freder,
Google is your friend.
Hey dumbass, Google may be your friend but the Moonie owned Washington Times frequently lies or obfuscates the truth.
The HHS guidelines they are referring to is whether religiously affiliated hospitals and health providers' insurance plans (for their employees, not the patients they treat) cover abortions. It does not require a hospital to actually perform abortions.
Michael K is, and always will be, a liar. I came him a liar because I know he is not so stupid to understand the difference between what an insurance plan must cover and the procedures a hospital must provide. So he is just spewing bullshit.
If one wishes to understand the ubiquity of the argument for late term abortion slipping into infanticide, one should take a look at the moral philosopher Peter Singer. From Wikipedia:
Singer holds that the right to life is essentially tied to a being's capacity to hold preferences, which in turn is essentially tied to a being's capacity to feel pain and pleasure.
In Practical Ethics, Singer argues in favour of abortion rights on the grounds that fetuses are neither rational nor self-aware, and can therefore hold no preferences. As a result, he argues that the preference of a mother to have an abortion automatically takes precedence. In sum, Singer argues that a fetus lacks personhood.
Similar to his argument for abortion rights, Singer argues that newborns lack the essential characteristics of personhood—"rationality, autonomy, and self-consciousness"—and therefore "killing a newborn baby is never equivalent to killing a person, that is, a being who wants to go on living". Singer has clarified that his "view of when life begins isn’t very different from that of opponents of abortion." He deems it not "unreasonable to hold that an individual human life begins at conception. If it doesn’t, then it begins about 14 days later, when it is no longer possible for the embryo to divide into twins or other multiples." Singer disagrees with abortion rights opponents in that he does not "think that the fact that an embryo is a living human being is sufficient to show that it is wrong to kill it." Singer wishes "to see American jurisprudence, and the national abortion debate, take up the question of which capacities a human being needs to have in order for it to be wrong to kill it" as well as "when, in the development of the early human being, these capacities are present."
Singer classifies euthanasia as voluntary, involuntary, or non-voluntary. Voluntary euthanasia is that to which the subject consents. He argues in favour of voluntary euthanasia and some forms of non-voluntary euthanasia, including infanticide in certain instances, but opposes involuntary euthanasia.
The position Peter Singer holds is the Ira W. DeCamp Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University. In other words, he is not some whack-job nobody associate professor at East Bumfuck Community College. He holds an endowed chair at an Ivy League university, i.e. he is at the absolute pinnacle of the academic profession. He did not get to that position by having everyone ignore what he wrote & said.
Every bioethicist on staff at a major hospital has read & somehow come to terms with Peter Singer since at least grad school. When the Catholic Church refers to a modern "culture of death" they know of what they speak, and they know it comes from the commanding heights of our culture, as exemplified by Peter Singer.
I like how wwww thinks people aren't getting good information.
That's a pretty harsh indictment of the MSM, coming from a loony Leftist Collectivist.
According to wwww:
The media refuse to cover stories that make Democratics look bad.
Therefore when Democratics don't know what Trump references, it may be Trump's fault.
And the confusion of the people who listened to the MSM (mostly Democratics) was caused by Democratics.
Fucking damning indictment offered by wwww.
And finally I found a point of agreement with the dumb ass.
- I have never heard of abortions being performed in US hospitals. I will read the links to learn about it. All of the articles I've read discussed late term abortionists of running their own clinics.
- I am pro-life. I commented because I was answering somebody else's question about why some people believed it to be a lie. I answered the question, but it's what other people think. I've said what I think Trump meant: abortion clinics, not L&D/ NICU units in hospitals.
- I do not believe L&D or NICU doctors & nurses murder babies during or after birth. Nor do I believe abortions are performed in L&D units or the NICU.
- Any doctor or any person who executes a baby is a murderer. Intentional neglect is a crime. Neglect that causes death may be prosecuted as murder. Any nurses or other medical personnel who are aware of the murder are accessories to the crime of murder. Any individual who is aware of such acts has a responsibility to report these actions to the police.
-It's blood libel to falsely accuse L&D/ NICU doctors and nurses of murder and intentional neglect that leads to death. They are heroes in the NICU units and L&D. Anyone who has been through a harrowing, high-risk birth knows it. I'm beyond grateful for what they did because I and my babies wouldn't have made it without them.
Yeah, no nurse has ever killed.
Google?
What does it do?
https://thehornnews.com/black-widow-nurse-murdered-patients/
@Freder,
Stop being a ninny, please.
Do you think the judge is also a moonie?
Here is the text of the HHS ruling itself. Read it. It covers procedures practiced by hospitals, not just what insurance coverages must be offered.
Which was exactly what the judge ruled on, which can be read about in this article, which supported the Obama's ACA ruling, and says, in essence, exactly what was said in the Washington Times article.
Stop being kneejerk! Do the research! Don't just read what's in The Nation or whatever it is you peruse & swallow it hook, line, & sinker. Google is your friend.
The Born Alive Protection Act would require that all babies be transported, immediately, to hospitals. Ben Sasse's Born Alive Protection Act : “It also requires that the living child, after appropriate care has been given, be immediately transported and admitted to a hospital."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/ben-sasse-reintroduces-born-alive-abortion-survivors-protection-act-ahead-of-march-for-life
There are deranged individuals. There are people who have stolen babies out of L&D wards. Those people need to be brought to justice. Anyone who is aware of these actions and does not immediately report it to police is an accessory to a crime.
Other doctors and nurses aren't going to ignore a murder.
They used to do abortions in hospitals. There was a doctor in California, Dr. William Waddill, who was doing an abortion. The mother was in the 29th week. He injected her uterus with saline solution, to burn the baby to death. What happens with a saline abortion, you give birth to a dead baby. That's what is supposed to happen, anyway.
In this case, the baby was not badly burned by the saline. She was 2 pounds and 8 ounces. The nurse was about to put her in a bucket when she started to cry.
The nurse had no idea what to do. One nurse suggested that they should put the baby in a bucket anyway. Yet another nurse testified that she had seen the baby moving but had not said anything to avoid distressing the mother.
The baby was placed in a neonatal intensive care unit. They called for Dr. Waddill. He cleared all the nurses from the room and instructed them "not to do a goddamn thing for the baby."
Waddill proceeded to strangle the baby to death. "I can't find the goddamn trachea," said Waddill. "This baby won't stop breathing."
He was charged with murder, twice, and was not convicted either time.
They've pretty much stopped doing abortions in hospitals since then. You can't have all those happy moms with the aborting moms. It just doesn't work.
Waddill told him the baby must be killed because she would be severely brain-damaged by the saline solution and he would be hit by a multimillion-dollar malpractice suit.
Freder" Hey dumbass, Google may be your friend but the Moonie owned Washington Times frequently lies or obfuscates the truth.
Are you fucking kidding? You worship the NYTs!
People who spent the last 2 years being fed with a shovel by the like of Wapo and the NYTs over Mueller's nothing burger should be barred from every commenting on the credibility of anyone or anything for the rest of their lives.
Also, they can't use the word "dumbass" unless they are confessing to how easily they were conned by CNN and MSNBC.
"They used to do abortions in hospitals."
That's horrific. But it was in a community hospital 50 years ago. I've never heard of abortions in hospitals in anything I've ever read. The poison shot is always given in a clinic.
In the hospital, when the baby is in distress, a bunch of people run into the room. They are ready to save you and the baby. That's how they do crash C-sections and save the baby. I don't see anyway a murder could be hidden during a labor in a modern hospital.
"And you ask me if I think doctors on the front lines with patients like this sometimes practice euthanasia. I say "hell, yes, they do", and even I, as a Catholic opposed to abortion & euthanasia, understand why they do. What decision would I make in that case? I'm glad I'm not the soldier on point forced to make the decision is all I have to say."
I hear you. But I want to ask: who gave these soldiers the authority to judge who lives and who dies. Even as a US Marine I did not have that sole authority.
YoungHegelian said...
@anonymous,
Delusional Deplorables and Deranged Donald together, the gift that keeps on giving.
Ah, another drive-by lefty who thinks that an attempt at a cutting witticism actually passes for an argument.
Admit it. In your heart of hearts, you actually do think that.
4/29/19, 4:00 PM
Anonymous sounds like Inga. That's the sort of comment Inga would think is clever. And it would be entirely like Inga to hide (once again) behind a different nic, since she had some sort of breakdown after it (slowly) dawned on her that the Mueller Report was going to be the end of The Donald. She's been making herself scarce since then but I'm sure she's still glued to this place and can't resist making what she believes to be a devastating, cutting witticism, but is nothing more than an angry little mouse fart.
As admirable as Althouse can be, she has her blind spots. Abortion is one of them.
I am confused as to why people think abortions and murders are occurring, legally, in American labor wards in American hospitals. I'm confused why people think labor room doctors and neonatal nurses are killing infants.
If you give birth prematurely and your baby is around 22 weeks, it's entirely possible some hospitals will refuse to admit the child to the NICU.
If you're ever in this situation, I would suggest you add a few weeks to your baby's age.
People who are "pro-choice" should note that babies are being denied access to a NICU against the will of the parents. What happened to choice? And also that abortion leads to more and more premature births. That's not the choice of the parents, either, but that's what happens.
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