“Words can barely describe how embarrassed, dejected, and hurt my wife, daughters, and I feel right now,” [Union City Police Chief Darryl] McAllister wrote in a lengthy, emotional message on the Union City Police Department’s Facebook page. “Violence and hatred is not what we have taught our children; intolerance for others is not even in our vocabulary, let alone our values.”Difficult to comprehend? The successful two are the daughters. The "wayward" child is the son. What do boys need? You can't say this child didn't have a strong father figure in the house. His father is the Chief of Police. Tyrone McAllister is just one individual, and who knows his particular story? I'm not going to generalize, but the sex difference between that father's successful children and his unsuccessful son is too glaring not to mention.
His son, Tyrone McAllister, was arrested along with a 16-year-old on charges of attempted robbery, elder abuse and assault with a deadly weapon. Police say that one of them waived [sic] a firearm in the air as they left the scene of the attack....
“Despite having the desire any parent would have in wanting to protect their child, my oath is (and always will be) to the law and my vow of integrity guides me through this horrendous difficulty,” Darryl McAllister wrote in the Facebook post. “My stomach has been churning from the moment I learned this news.”
McAllister said his son began running away and “getting involved in a bad crowd” a couple of years ago. “He pretty much divorced his friends and family, associating with people none of us knew.”
He spent some time in a juvenile center after getting in trouble for theft-related crimes, and was again arrested for theft as an adult, his father wrote. After spending about three months in jail, he “has been wayward and has not returned to our family home for several months,” McAllister wrote.
“It’s difficult for us to comprehend how one of three kids who grew up with the same parents, under the same roof, with the same rules and same values and character could wander so far astray,” McAllister said. His 18-year-old son has two sisters, McAllister said, “one corporate and the other about to start law school.”
IN THE COMMENTS: Karen of Texas said:
Begs the question - was dad a strict disciplinarian while his son and daughters were growing up who punished his son for transgressions in ways he did not punish his daughters? It would also appear the son is the baby of the family. Perhaps mom was too permissive when her last child came along - and dad had higher expectations of his male heir.MikeR said:
Who knows what the family dynamics and dysfunction were. The blanket statement that they were all raised under the same roof, yada, is and indication that dad (and mom) are unable to self examine to see if perhaps they did treat son differently - and perhaps not in the "good" way they think they did.
Sad story. But I didn't like the police chief's statements about his son; his son needs his love right now. The chief shouldn't be speaking publicly about it. It feels like he's throwing his son under the bus to save the family's reputation.
I have three sons. One had a hard time but now is doing well, one has been doing very well, and the third is still having a very hard time. It really makes no sense to wonder about whether their gender or any other external factor led to their circumstances. Everyone ultimately makes their own choices.
"The thing to do with this young man is put him in jail for a long time." There are no circumstances where it ever makes sense to put anyone in jail for a long time. Give him lashes if you think it will help, put him in a chain gang to work off his debt if he can, transport him to a colony if you have one, or execute him. Civilized human beings do not keep people in cages.
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It is difficult to persuade me that the story of the Prodigal Son is not the legend of one who didn't want to be loved. When he was a child everyone in the house loved him. He grew up knowing nothing different and, being a child, he grew accustomed to their tenderness of heart. But once he became a youth he wanted to cast all that aside. He wouldn't have been able to say it, but even when he spent the whole day wandering around outdoors he didn't want the dogs with him ever again because they loved him as well; because looking in their eyes he could read watchfulness, sympathy, expectation, and concern; because when they were with him there was nothing he could do that didn't either delight them or hurt their feelings. But what he was aiming for at the time was that indifference of heart which early in the morning out in the fields sometimes seized him inwardly and with such purity that he would start to run in order to leave himself no time or breath to be more than a weightless moment in the morning's returning consciousness.
- Rilke, The Notebooks of Malte Laurids Brigge
“one corporate and the other about to start law school.”
IOW at least one of the daughters is starting down a potentially criminal path.
You raise your children and you hope for the best. Who your kids come to associate with is pretty much out of your control at some point. What a nightmare for this Chief and his family. But I hope there is room in him for forgiveness.
Pretty bad when your own father won't publicly give you the presumption of innocence.
per rhhardin and Rilke, Freud might speculate that the prodigal son was likely very close to his mother.
lawman father makes a son's adolescent rebellion particularly dangerous.
Different boys need different things. Men are much better at figuring out boys, but certainly not perfect.
that the beating involved two perpetrators offers some hope that this incident may mark a turning point for this young man.
I blame the alt-right.
"Pretty bad when your own father won't publicly give you the presumption of innocence."
1. "Presumption of innocence" is a legal concept that applies only in the justice system. Even as Chief of Police, the father is not required to speak about his son from that legal perspective.
2. The Chief did not assert his son's guilt in this matter; he expressed shock and sadness that his son had been arrested as a suspect in the crime, and he spoke about his son's history of criminal mischief and crime, a history which, we must presume, was adjudicated in each instance.
It’s tough enough struggling with a wayward child but to then have to publically “confess”.
Speaking from personal experience, the day you realize that the next call may be the one informing you of your child’s death is an awful day.
Did you ever hear the stories in high school about the minister’s son being the wildest, worst kid in town? Why would it be different with the police chief? Lots of boys want separation from their parents, not approval. It looks like chief junior achieved it.
This highlights one of my big questions about the unproven platitude that the troubles in the black community being a function of no strong fathers in the home. We all know wonderful people who are the products of single mother homes. None of them would have benefited from a strong, drug-dealing burgler in the home. The lack of two parent homes is a symptom, not a cause.
Begs the question - was dad a strict disciplinarian while his son and daughters were growing up who punished his son for transgressions in ways he did not punish his daughters? It would also appear the son is the baby of the family. Perhaps mom was too permissive when her last child came along - and dad had higher expectations of his male heir.
Who knows what the family dynamics and dysfunction were. The blanket statement that they were all raised under the same roof, yada, is and indication that dad (and mom) are unable to self examine to see if perhaps they did treat son differently - and perhaps not in the "good" way they think they did.
Since the father and son are people of color, maybe the thug element had a more powerful influence on the son.
Good points, Cook, but he still could have been more reticent until adjudication, or whatever it's called. Now it's national news.
Speculating on family dynamics is more specious than speculating on life on far distant planets.
Ralph L said...
Pretty bad when your own father won't publicly give you the presumption of innocence.
There's a video. Steve Sailer has it if you're interested. Presumably, the Chief recognized his son.
As Bob Grant used to say, this is an individual who has "served notice" on society that he is not fit to live among others (with his juvey and adult record [keep in mind that those are only the times he got caught]). The thing to do with this young man is put him in jail for a long time.
My grandmother's late maid/LPN had 5 girls, 4 boys. The girls all did very well, the boys all didn't. She got a single grandchild (which she raised) from one of the boys. He went to prison soon after turning 18.
Only black woman I've known with freckles.
joshbraid, is that because we're so likely to get it wrong, or just because it makes you (and other people, of course) uncomfortable?
And the sex difference in the engineering field is too glaring not to mention.
The adolescent process of separating from your parents is difficult. It is even more difficult when your peers are involved in criminal activities. The call to be "authentic" is strong, even more so when you father is the chief of police. The dysfunction of black culture has destroyed many lives.
Sad story. But I didn't like the police chief's statements about his son; his son needs his love right now. The chief shouldn't be speaking publicly about it. It feels like he's throwing his son under the bus to save the family's reputation.
I have three sons. One had a hard time but now is doing well, one has been doing very well, and the third is still having a very hard time. It really makes no sense to wonder about whether their gender or any other external factor led to their circumstances. Everyone ultimately makes their own choices.
"The thing to do with this young man is put him in jail for a long time." There are no circumstances where it ever makes sense to put anyone in jail for a long time. Give him lashes if you think it will help, put him in a chain gang to work off his debt if he can, transport him to a colony if you have one, or execute him. Civilized human beings do not keep people in cages.
He's only 18. He can turn around. His father is doing the right thing by making him suffer the consequences of his actions. I will pray that this boy finds his way back to his family and away from his troubles.
Just a few minutes ago I finished watching the second part of the current six-part documentary television series about Trayvon Martin. Therefore I immediately perceived similarities between Trayvon Martin and this Tyrone McAllister.
The TV documentary about Trayvon Martin is a whitewash. Since he was a Dextromethorphan (DXM) addict, he became a criminal and a maniac. Eventually he attacked George Zimmerman, who fortunately was armed with a gun and so was able to save his own life by shooting Trayvon to death in self-defense.
In one of my blogs, I wrote a series of four articles about Trayvon Martin and the consequences of his DXM addiction. I'll summarize them in my following comments.
"It’s difficult for us to comprehend how one of three kids who grew up with the same parents, under the same roof, with the same rules and same values and character could wander so far astray,"
No, it's not difficult to understand at all.
Absent extreme abuse, "parenting" doesn't have much effect on children, hence "no convincing evidence that one way [of parenting] produces better results than another."
And in this case the juvenile history indicates....
"...about 50% of the total liability to developing ASPD [antisocial personality] has been attributed to genetic factors."
Speculating on family dynamics is specious because without actual observation of true family dynamics and structure (not available via the media I assure you) is like speculating on life on other planets where observation is impossible currently (even given spectral analysis, etc.).
"You can't say this child didn't have a strong father figure in the house."
Actually, you could say that. Or not. We have no way of knowing what the parents were like. Maybe the mother was domineering. Maybe the father's job significantly limited his time at home. Maybe he was too strict, and the son is rebelling.
Maybe the son just got into the wrong crowd - peers have as much, often more, influence as parents. A black teenager whose father was a policeman probably had a hard fitting in, and would have been under a lot of pressure to "act out."
Just speculation and click bait. Need more info to make rational opinion.
Lear had two "wayward" children — both of them daughters.
Following up my previous comment at 7:54 AM, I now will summarize my blog article titled Trayvon Martin was paranoid because of Purple Drank.
Trayvon Martin was killed on February 26, 2012.
At about the end of June 2011, when he subscribed to the YouTube log of Purple Drank addict Andy Milonakis. Martin’s subscription coincided roughly with Milonakis’s upload, on June 21, 2011, of a rap-music video that Milonakis himself had created. Milonakis's video is titled Red Lean Purple Lean and is illustrated by photographs of bottles full of Promethazine Codeine and drinking cups full of Purple Drank (aka Red Lean Purple Lean).
On June 27, 2011, Martin asked a friend named MacKenzie to help him obtain DXM in order to make a Lean drink.
The known side-effects of chronic DXM intoxication include
* Mania
* Violent ideations
* Antisocial behavior
* Paranoia
* Psychosis
Martin's fascination with abusing DXM began in June 2011, and he was killed in February 2012, so his abuse might have continued for more than a half year. By mixing DXM with watermelon juice cocktail and Skittles and sipping it addictively, he was chronically consuming up to 25 times the recommended maximum dosage.
My article includes a long excerpt of an article written by a professional writer who suffered one DXM overdose. The excerpt begins as follows:
[quote]
…. Last night I drank about eight ounces of DM [DXM] cough syrup. I was feeling kind of achy and wanted to see if it would kill pain. After a couple of hours all my pain had gone away, and I went to bed. It was midnight, but I felt neither awake nor asleep. It was like a typical narcotic high--mildly content, kind of nodding -- but not as pleasant.
At four o'clock in the morning I woke up suddenly and remembered that I had to go to Kinko's copy shop and that I had to shave off about a week's worth of stubble from my face. These ideas were very clear to me. That may seem normal, but the fact was that I had a reptilian brain. My whole way of thinking and perceiving had changed. I had full control over my motor functions, but I felt ungainly. I was detached from my body, as if I were on laughing gas.
So I got in the shower and shaved. While I was shaving I "thought" that for all I knew I was hacking my face to pieces. …..
The world became a binary place of dark and light, on and off, safety and danger. I felt a need, determined it was hunger, and ate almonds until I didn't feel the need anymore.
Same thing with water. It was like playing a game. I sat at my desk and tried to write down how this felt so I could look at it later. I wrote down the word "Cro-Magnon." I was very aware that I was stupid. ….
[unquote]
The professional writer's description of his one DXM overdose continues at length.
Trayvon Martin was overdosing on DXM chronically for about a half-year.
See Dumbledore's speech to the parents of Dudley in Harry Potter 6...
Yet my own first two boys are fine, and it's my third child, a daughter, who is by far the most wild. Even after our fourth child, another son, was born, the daughter continually tried to get away from the family, tho going to Scout Jamborees each summer was a pretty acceptable way for her to reject the family a bit.
First summer in 4 years the almost 20 daughter came with us, this year to Albania. We, once, were throwing a ball around with 5 from our family - daughter invites an older, lonely looking man to throw the ball around, too.
A - it's nice to be nice to lonely people.
B - it's funny weird sad to be nicer to strangers than to family.
She wasn't even aware that this behavior was a clear, small, rejection of the family.
At least she's growing up and has, so far, avoided the huge teenage problems and trouble that problematic kids can get into.
There's no doubt the cop could have done things differently -- but it's highly unlikely that all involved would agree on what those different things are.
Every person, including every young person, is a real individual. Choosing friends is a HUGE issue for young people.
A black teenager whose father was a policeman probably had a hard [time] fitting in, and would have been under a lot of pressure to "act out."
Good point.
Furthermore, we have no real information about the daughters or the father, just opinions. The whole family could be rotten.
Otto, read this --
LINK TEXT
Whoa. I got a tag!@!
I'd like to thank all the little people who helped me get where I am today.
Following up my comment at 8:12 AM, I now will summarize my blog article called Trayvon Martin's paranoia made him belligerent.
Trayvon Martin began abusing DXM, in the form of Purple Drank (aka Lean) drinks, in late June 2011. By November 2011, he became remarkably suspicious and belligerent. The contents of his cell phone's text messages provided a series of text messages, in which he explained to a female friend why he was engaging in various fights with other students, with a teacher and with a school bus driver.
On or before February 21, 2012, Martin received a tweet from his cousin, who remarked about Martin trying to hit a bus driver. The tweet said: “yu ain’t tell me yu swung on a bus driver”.
Perhaps this “swung on a bus driver” incident had coincided with Martin's suspension from his high school on or about February 14 (see the last text message, above). If so, then Martin tried to hit a school bus driver.
I think that Martin's paranoia -- about other students "snitching" on him and about being disrespected by teachers and school staff -- was caused basically by his addiction to Purple Drank.
My blog article includes relevant excerpts from Martin's text communications with his friends.
"You can't say this child didn't have a strong father figure in the house. His father is the Chief of Police."
One doesn't necessarily correlate with the other. So it actually can be said.
Mike S, I followed Zimmerman's trial and pre-trial reasonably closely, and Martin's drug use other than pot must have been suppressed pretty well, because that's all news to me. It does explain why the mother sent him to his father.
Following up my comment at 8:32 AM, I now will summarize my article titled Trayvon Martin paid for Purple Drank by burglarizing.
The most expensive ingredient in Trayvon Martin's Purple Drank concoction was Promethazine Codeine. The cash price for a 240-millimeter bottle was around $23. The juice and candy to accompany such a bottle would raise the cost to, say, $30. So, sipping Purple Drank all day, every day, is a habit that costs some money.
Martin was a high-school student who did not have a known wage-earning job. Martin earned money by burglarizing homes. In late October 2011 -- the exact date is unknown -- he was detained because he had vandalized lockers in a restricted room in his high school. The School Resource Officer searched Martin's backpack and found at least 12 items of ladies jewelry, a man’s watch, and a flat-head screwdriver described as “a burglary tool”.
When Trayvon was questioned about who owned the jewelry and where it came from, he claimed he was just holding it for a “friend”, whom he would not name.
On October 21 -- before Martin was detained in the school -- a home was burglarized a few blocks from the high school. The items found in Martin's backpack, as described in School Police Report match the items stolen from the home.
However, because the school district was trying to minimize the disciplining of African-American students, the school police report was not forwarded to the local police department. Instead, the items in Martin's backpack were classified as merely "found items" and were placed in a lost-and-found property room.
After Martin was killed in February 2012, the incident involving his backpack was investigated and was revealed to the public. Eventually the items found in Martin's backpack were located in the property room and returned to the family whose home had been burglarized.
Following up my comment at 8:39 AM, I now will summarize my article titled Trayvon Martin waited for darkness before casing homes to burglarize.
On February 26, 2012, the day of Martin's death, the sky began dark in southern Florida at the following times:
* Sunset = 6:21 p.m.
* Civil twilight = 6:44 p.m.
* Nautical twilight = 7:11 p.m.
The sky was cloudy, and rain was falling.
The expressions civil twilight and nautical twilight are defined as follows:
[quote]
Civil twilight is defined when the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon. .... in the evening it is called dusk.
This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished .... the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination.
.... in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities. ...
Nautical twilight is defined when the sun is 12 degrees below the horizon.
At the ... end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.
[end quote]
In order to make another mixture of Purple Drank, Martin walked to a store to buy Skittles candy and Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail, his favorite additives to the main codeine ingredient.
The store's closed-circuit camera recorded him paying the cashier for the candy and juice at 6:24 p.m.
Instead of walking directly home to make his Purple Drank, however, he waited until the sky became dark.
[continued in my following comment]
The bane of the middle class black family is the son who goes with the gang bangers. It is very common and must be the worst fear of black middle class parents.
My sister lives in an integrated neighborhood in Chicago. It is a\called "Beverly" and 50 years ago was mostly rich people. It is now mostly middle class but has the crime so typical of Chicago middle class areas now.
Her next door neighbors were a nice black couple but one night the police came for the son. He was arrested and convicted of murder.
The couple continued to live there until the mother died a few years ago.
The whole racial pathology thing is a real problem with boys who buy into the racialism of the race pimps.
Girls are probably less at risk when they come from intact families.
If he is black in a Democrat-heavy region, then probably he has been encouraged by friends, teachers, the media, etc. to believe that his father, as a policeman taking orders from non-black authorities, is a race traitor. It doesn't matter whether those authorities are Democrat or not, they are insufficiently radical and the police are the oppressors.
Maybe this is a way of playing out some kind of father-son conflict in public and of embarrassing his father. The main goal, though, is reprisal against POC choosing to side with the other side, like the father and like victim. The personal is political here. He probably sees himself as a latter-day Vietcong member.
Mike Sylvester, the Trayyvon Martin case is what got me started reading Conservative Tree House.
I spent an entire Saturday reading their posts and have been an enthusiastic reader ever since.
Continuing my comment t 8:47 AM
As Trayvon Martin waited for the sky to become darker, he first stayed right in front of the store and asked three men to buy him a cigar that he could use to make a marijuana blunt. (Martin was too young to buy the cigar himself.) By the time the three men bought the cigar and gave it to Martin and then he walked away from the store's front, the time had become 6:30.
Sunset had occurred at 6:21, and civil twilight would occur at 6:44. The sky was cloudy, and it was raining, but it still was not dark enough for Trayvon to begin looking into home windows.
The distance from the store to the apartment complex was about a half-mile, so Martin could have reached the complex by about 6:40 -- a normal walking pace is three miles an hour, so a half-mile is ten minutes.
However, Martin apparently found a nearby place, covered from the rain, and smoked his blunt for a half-hour. He did not enter the apartment complex until about 7:05 p.m.
At that time, the sky was turning from civil twilight into nautical twilight, which occurred at 7:11. The sky turned dark a few minutes earlier than normal because of the clouds and rain
Right after the sky turned dark and Martin entered the apartment complex, events developed as follows:
7:09:34 – 7:13:41 — George Zimmerman calls the Sanford Police Department from his truck.
7:11:33 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.
7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know Martin's location.
7:13:41 — The end of Zimmerman's call to Sanford police.
7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.
Because Martin was addicted to Purple Drank, he was chronically paranoid, and he attacked Zimmerman murderously. Fortunately, however, Zimmerman was armed and was able to shoot Martin in self-defense.
Michael K at 8:51 AM
the Trayyvon Martin case is what got me started reading Conservative Tree House.
That is when I too began reading The Conservative Treehouse.
In particular, I began reading the CTH analysis of Trayvon standing in front of the store and asking the three men to buy him a cigar.
The disparity is too stark not to mention, sample size 1?
Hey! Look at that, “Althouse” is an anagram of “rhhardin”. I never noticed that before.
Ken's Third Law: The plural of anecdote is selection bias.
"There are no circumstances where it ever makes sense to put anyone in jail for a long time"
Unfortunately, there are. From Georgia:
"Fulton County Superior Court Judge Doris Downs decided last year to give Jayden Myrick — the teen accused of shooting a man this month as he left a wedding reception — a chance to turn his life around.
Myrick had been arrested at the age of 14 for his role in an armed robbery and agreed to a negotiated plea of 15 years, to serve seven years in adult prison, according to the Fulton County District Attorney’s Office.
But after two-and-a-half years in juvenile detention, the judge gave him a break. She put Myrick on probation and placed him in a special program whose director confidently claimed her program could keep tabs on Myrick and reform him, just as it had many other violent youths, according to a transcript of the hearing.
“I don’t want anybody else to be held at gunpoint by this man,” the judge said in court when a prosecutor objected to her plan, according to the transcript. “I want to end it. You’re interested in punishment. I’m interested in rehabilitation and community safety for the future, because he is going to get out, and I want him to be a positive influence in the community.”
Now 17, Myrick is accused of shooting Christian Broder, 34, a restaurant manager from Washington, D.C., who was waiting for an Uber ride as he left a wedding reception earlier this month at Atlanta’s Capital City Country Club. Broder, an Atlanta native, died Friday as a result of the wounds he suffered in the shooting. He is survived by his wife and a 9-month-old daughter."
"Civilized human beings do not keep people in cages."
Civilized human beings don't allow murderous thugs to prey on the innocent.
@allens.
Thank you, i read the article. Indeed a sad story. However for Ann to say the sexual difference between the good and bad children should be noted is faux feminism at worse and most obvious at best.
Throughout history men have dominated in crime and in warfare. The reason is simple: men are physically stronger than women. When there is a conflict , problem or misunderstanding that dimension of using physical force to resolve a situation is a resource that is available to a male that is not as readily available to a female.
I mentioned above that I just finished watching the second part of a six-part television documentary series titled Rest in Power: The Trayvon Martin Story.
The series has been worthwhile for me because it is reminding me all the political pressure to arrest George Zimmerman and to put him on trial.
After Zimmerman killed Martin, Zimmerman was questioned and released by the police. After all, Zimmerman had killed Martin in self-defense. Of course, Martin's family objected that the police were letting Martin get away with murder. So, there were mass demonstrations and protests until the Florida State government relented to charge Zimmerman for second-degree murder.
In those circumstances, a show-trial of Zimmerman just had to be conducted. The show-trial did produce the social benefit of educating the public that Martin had attacked Zimmerman and had tried to beat him to death and that Zimmerman indeed had shot Martin in self-defense.
The show-trial ended in a correct verdict. The jury unanimously acquitted Zimmerman on all charges.
The show-trial would have produced even more social benefit if the judge had allowed the defense attorneys to present Martin's text messages and Facebook pages that showed his DXM-intoxicated, maniac, violent behavior. The public should have been educated also about that factor in Martin's death.
Martin's chronic abuse of DXM made him a paranoid maniac. In order to get the money to buy DXM he had to burglarize homes. He went to the store to buy ingredients to make another batch of Purple Drank. In order to find a home he could burglarize, he waited until it was dark before he headed back home.
Zimmerman saw Martin walking in the rainy dark and looking for a home to burglarize. Zimmerman did a good deed to call the police about Martin's activities. Martin became enraged that Zimmerman was watching him, and so Martin attacked Zimmerman and tried to beat him to death.
More Trump white-supremacism!
"Civilized people do not keep people in cages."
Misses the point. Keeping uncivil people in cages isn't done for their benefit, it is done for the benefit of the civil people. A cavalier mental leap to physical abuse, slave labor, execution, or exile indicates that there hasn't been a lot of thought put into the result of "caging" vs these other punishments on the perpetrator.
Fulton County Superior Court Judge Doris Downs decided last year to give Jayden Myrick — the teen accused of shooting a man this month as he left a wedding reception — a chance to turn his life around.
The killer is Black, which is what I guessed.
It's just a fact that the best guesses are Black males and Moslem males.
>>Civilized human beings do not keep people in cages.
I'm uncivilized by your definition, as I have put a fair number of people in cages.
What should I have done with the guy who stabbed his girlfriend? Or burglarized his neighbor's house? Or was driving so drunk he ran off the road?
I put them all in a cage.
So, enlighten me. What should I have done instead?
"Civilized human beings do not keep people in cages."
Civilized human beings don't allow murderous thugs to prey on the innocent.
A lot of behavior is genetic. This is going to be come more apparent as genetics progresses.
There are some people who cannot be released on society until they are over 40. Maybe that is not enough.
Capital punishment needs to come back and eventually it will if we survive as a society long enough.
@Sebastian. "Civilized human beings don't allow murderous thugs to prey on the innocent." Sebastian, I gave you a list of alternate choices. You didn't read it, or you didn't think those were better?
Should I have included cutting off hands, starting with the one he holds a gun with? I don't actually think much of that one.
Ancient societies didn't have prisons, of course. They are far too expensive for any society less wealthy than ours. They did have something called "dungeons", which is much cheaper. It costs a crust of bread a day, plus somebody to walk around and collect the slop pails, and eventually to dig a hole in the ground for burial. None of these showers and exercise yard.
The idea is the same: For whichever reason you aren't willing to kill the person, so you found another way to throw him away. This allows us to think of ourselves as much more moral than those other barbaric societies. The US currently is throwing away three million people, at very great expense.
The killer is Black, which is what I guessed.
I fear the young highway patrolman in Phoenix was killed because the cops were afraid to shoot the crazy black perpetrator.
I understand a Taser was unsuccessful in restraining him. That is a bad sign. I wonder if he was on meth.
Chicago is going up in smoke because cops are afraid to take on black criminals.
>>The US currently is throwing away three million people, at very great expense.
So tell us what to do instead.
Ralph L said...
Pretty bad when your own father won't publicly give you the presumption of innocence.
**************
Well, I'd like to know how a policeman can arrest anyone for anything, if he's supposed to presume the arrestee is innocent.
@mikee "A cavalier mental leap to physical abuse, slave labor, execution, or exile indicates that there hasn't been a lot of thought put into the result of "caging" vs these other punishments on the perpetrator." See my comment above on dungeons. I don't know why you put caging in quotes.
Let me ask you, personally: 10 lashes. We'll have a doctor make sure you don't go into shock and for emergency help, but you will have terrible pain, lacerations and permanent scars, and presumably some hospital time afterwards. Horrific.
Or three years in prison. Which do you choose?
I've been asking people this for a while; I don't think anyone chose the prison. Maybe it was your quick assumption that was cavalier.
@DantheMan "What should I have done with the guy who stabbed his girlfriend? Or burglarized his neighbor's house? Or was driving so drunk he ran off the road?" Good questions; no easy answers. I offered some suggestions earlier, none of which is very good, all of which were done by many societies along the way. But all of which are better than putting a person in a cage, which is absolutely cruel and absolutely useless.
Chicago is not "going up in smoke" or whatever metaphor you want. It is suffering from poor financial management, to be sure, which may eventually cause a "Detroit". The politicians in Chicago are allowing gangs to kill people without consequence, often randomly. Someone or ones are profiting from them doing so. If there was no profit, the killing would be stopped.
Chicago is not "going up in smoke" or whatever metaphor you want.
OK What would you call it?
I assume you live there and known more than I do. All I have is most of my family there,
But all of which are better than putting a person in a cage, which is absolutely cruel and absolutely useless.
Why not take them home with you ?
I'm sure the career criminal you adopt will appreciate it.
"What do boys need?"
What I'm begging for every day, that I alone seem to want: social coherence. A little consistency.
I'll lay you a bet this kid is remarkably aware of the difference between what his dad says and the world his dad deals with, but he doesn't have anyone who can make sense of it for him. I don't know a cop who can and I know three. They started as a slave chasing org - a way to make a buck, right? - so don't count on them being big on ripping that history apart to examine it's blindspots for clues to it's dysfunction. They huddle together and protect their own.
I feel for their family as much as the ones I'm familiar with. A clueless man with a gun has ramifications.
>>which is absolutely cruel and absolutely useless.
Completely wrong.
1) It is not cruel to protect the innocent. It is the only moral choice.
2) It is not absolutely useless. It's very useful to those who will not be killed, robbed, or assaulted by the guy in the cage.
"Why not take them home with you? I'm sure the career criminal you adopt will appreciate it."
Why do I get the feeling that some of the people commenting did not actually read my list of suggestions?
>>A clueless man with a gun has ramifications.
So now I'm not only uncivilized, but a clueless former slave chaser.
My question remains, Crack: Do you still support killing of police officers based on race of arrestee and officer?
Why do I get the feeling that some of the people commenting did not actually read my list of suggestions?
I actually did because I was looking to see who had made the ridiculous comment about keeping people on cages.
None were serious.
Behavior is mostly genetic. Kids who begin a criminal career as teens are probably not salvageable.
We once had "reform schools" which were a pretty good idea but racialism intervened and the black family collapsed, which left hundreds of thousands of feral teens on the street. And millions of guilty whites making excuses for them.
Boys need the freedom of action and adventure tempered with discipline.
The sad facts are that kids are more likely to be abused by people they know than by strangers, and the families of cops suffer more abuse than do those of civilians, yet here in Kenosha, Wisconsin we have cops proud to go around preaching "Stranger Danger" [moms, teach your kids not to talk to strangers], even though it's strangers who pay their apparent mis-education bills for 13 years in public school.
Did I miss all the comments supporting the 71 year old victim of these penny ante thugs? Beating up on the elderly has become a staple of thug life and this one hits very close to home. Because I’m 79. And live in a community plagued with violence 42% of which is committed by young African American males. Who comprise maybe 4-5% of the population.
1/2 of child rearing success comes before the age of 2 and the goose is fully cooked by age 6. Thinking parents have no influence is the same nonsense as Christians who believe works don't count, just belief in the get out of hell free card if you believe in heyzeus. It's an excuse for benign neglect and failure.
Iggner beats Sikh Man, Crackhurt blames wypipo.
I have four children. My eldest, daughter, is my only female child. She is fantastic.
Then I have three sons. My oldest boy is high functioning autistic. He is 16. I also have a 14 and 13 year old boys.
The difference between my 16 year old and my other 3 children are night and day. If you met all four of them you'd probably think my oldest boy belonged to another home.
But perhaps that is explained by his autism.
"None [of my suggestions] were serious." Don't know why you say that; as I mentioned, all of them were standard responses to crime by various societies, and often still are.
The fact that they aren't very good responses doesn't make prisons one whit better. If all you want is to protect the society, some of the suggestions do that cheaper and more surely. If you possibly want to rehabilitate the criminals, some of the suggestions do that better, and none could do it worse. If you are unwilling to do cruel things, prisons are more cruel than most of the things on the list.
Prisons are terribly cruel, don't rehabilitate at all, and are extremely expensive. Our society ended up using that as our standard go-to for crime because it crossed off every other possibility. And it can't cross off prisons as well because then it would have nothing left.
It's just a way to kick a can down the road: We'll deal with this guy in a few years. He'll be worse by then, but that's their problem. We're willing to spend a lot of money and take away most of the guy's life so that we can pretend we've dealt with it now.
Parenting does count, but even with the best parenting, a person can make a wrong choice. This is the human condition. We have free will and sometimes we choose badly, even when we've been taught otherwise. See rhhardin's opening comment on the prodigal son.
1/2 of child rearing success comes before the age of 2 and the goose is fully cooked by age 6.
About half or more occurs at conception.
Much of that is not allowed in polite conversation because of the crude attempts at Eugenics by Margret Sanger and friends in the 1920s before anybody knew anything about genotypes.
It's just a way to kick a can down the road: We'll deal with this guy in a few years.
I don't deny this but the old rules of civilization are breaking down. We have lost the ability to enforce rules on kids who are genetically inclined to crime and violence.
Fools who think prisons rehabilitate will keep turning these feral young men, and increasingly girls, on innocent society.
Traditional Sikhs carry a dagger. To bad the old man didn't have one.
We had a friend, now thankfully retired, who taught fifth grade in a “challenging environment “. She used to make note of the names of kids who were problems in her class and wait for them to show up in the police reports. The ones who didn’t were most often dead before they reached adulthood at 18.
Family reputation counts for a lot in a traditional culture.
The notoriety of one taints all, and not just the nuclear family.
Modern society is confused on the question.
As for Crack, this confusion and many other sorts as well, are inherent in modernity.
The human animal did not evolve for the conditions of LA in the 1980s.
I spent some of my childhood in a traditional Spanish village. This sort of place is the obsolete but necessary intermediary between Los Angeles and the Neolithic.
1) Ann you had two sons, you certainly are qualified to answer your own question.
2) On the whole teenage boys are much stronger than their mothers so physical beatings are moot.And most teenage boys can stop their father.
I always tell the story of how my mother would come after me with a metal spoon.
Then one day when i was 14 i turned around and just held her arm. She didn't say a word and never came after me with that spoon again.
DanTheMan said...
"So now I'm not only uncivilized, but a clueless former slave chaser."
Did I say you? Or ALL cops. I know the history, I have my experience, and then there's the people I grew up with, who knew nothing of my life as they embarked on becoming overwhelming forces in it, while I knew theirs *pretty well* and would've told all three to give me a break. What qualified to you police me? Did you fix the race problem? Do you understand it? You're just another person who got full of himself to me.
"My question remains, Crack: Do you still support killing of police officers based on race of arrestee and officer?"
Depends on the situation. I know it's unfair to blacks, going in, so don't expect me to cry for you. You wanted to play Howdy Doody.
Char Char Binks said...
"Iggner beats Sikh Man, Crackhurt blames wypipo."
No, I blame a cowardly American society, trying to win a war of attrition by just letting shit go until generations burn the past away, and damn who gets killed in the meantime and how.
That's called "American Values."
IOW, yes. HAHAHAHAHA!
buwaya said...
"As for Crack, this confusion and many other sorts as well, are inherent in modernity.
The human animal did not evolve for the conditions of LA in the 1980s."
Nah - imagine you have a past but you can't grasp it - and you're walking into the future that way. Where are American blacks from? You don't know anymore than I do. That's not how the rest of you are engaging with the world. Things you take for granted don't exist for me. Never have. I can't go "home" whether it's the place of my birth or the place of my people.
America doesn't deal with THAT shit either.
Mike R said: "The thing to do with this young man is put him in jail for a long time." There are no circumstances where it ever makes sense to put anyone in jail for a long time. Give him lashes if you think it will help, put him in a chain gang to work off his debt if he can, transport him to a colony if you have one, or execute him. Civilized human beings do not keep people in cages.
I agree. Why is it cruel and unusual punishment to put jailed criminals on a chain gang doing hard labor but not keeping them in a cage? Work enables self-respect whereas merely housing someone only gives the criminal more time to stew in his/her anger. I'm sure there are alternatives to hard labor for those physically incapable of it. The point is to do something productive in preparation for re-entry to society. They can study for degrees at night while in jail.
My step-brother was the only white defensive lineman at the "Remember the Titans" HS. Later, he got to guard some of his teammates at the city jail. He and his brother were turned to doormats by the single-mom Step-Monster, and they keep marrying women as crazy and spendthrift as she was.
Where are American blacks from? You don't know anymore than I do.
West Africa, of course. Do you think the black slave hungers went to Kenya ? Come on.
We have un-chained gangs under guard clean up the interstate, and the next county has a prison farm they keep trying to shut down and sell for development. But those are probably all low-level offenders.
One of my best friends has two boys. My friend does well and the family lives a comfortable life. Both boys are now young men in their late twenties. One is an accountant married to a pharmacist. As far as I know he has never been in trouble in his life. The other has been in and out of jail for the last 5 years or so. The difference between the two? One got involved in drugs and the other one didn't.
"Give him lashes if you think it will help" I am not opposed in principle, but I don't think it will help prevent the Jayden Myricks from killing innocent civilians. Which is my priority.
"put him in a chain gang to work off his debt if he can" The point is not just to "work off debt," but to protect society.
"transport him to a colony if you have one" Where -- Mars?
"or execute him" Again, I am not opposed in principle, in the case of heinous crimes, but I think it is more humane, to the offender and to society, to put a violent young delinquent in a "cage" rather than to execute him right away.
Having successfully raised two boys and three girls to adulthood, my response is more along the lines of "There but for the grace of God go I." People, especially those of the upper-middle-class persuasion, place immense faith in nurture over nature. While I agree that's the best philosophy for raising children, I've come to appreciate how genetics are the more powerful force (and twin studies have borne this out). It's especially noticeable within the same family; some children are genetically lucky, while others inherit the temperament of a great-grandparent they never knew. You can nurture all you want and it still may not be enough.
Michael K said...
West Africa, of course. Do you think the black slave hungers went to Kenya ? Come on.
Hey, Everybody, I'm from the nation of West Africa! Hooray!
Michael K has changed my life [rolls eyes]
No buddy knoz duh trubble Crack seen
No buddy knoz butt Crack
I bet he feels like a motherless child, sometimes
Michael K has changed my life [rolls eyes]
You're welcome. Genetics may just show you where your ancestors came from. Stay tuned.
Millions of people been jailed once and never went back.
Some people are born bad.
Some good people go bad influenced by drugs or peer group
Most people rise above bad childhood and adversity
Agreed but at least half is genetics. Parenting is important but not the last word.
Michael K said...
"You're welcome. Genetics may just show you where your ancestors came from. Stay tuned."
I knew that already, of course, but where - and by who? Y'all take it for granted you got yours, and of course, jackasses like FullMoon will belittle it's importance in people's lives because he's got his, but it is a crippling pain in some cases. One America doesn't think about or act like it's real.
Y'all just carry on - it makes blacks hate you.
rhhardin said...
It is difficult to persuade me
You're funny, rh. Every so often I read something under your name that reads like it was written by a human being. I read on, eager to appreciate this new side of you and... Yep, it's a quote.
Michael K,
That's a great example of how white people are: "West Africa" is apparently a satisfactory answer for you - and nothing for me or any other black person I know.
That's how interviews with black conservatives go: the white person will ask something. The black will say "West Africa" and the white is satisfied. No follow-up question. Nothing deeper. He's happy.
And the white conservative audience applauds, thinking they've got some brave insight the rest of us are lacking.
It's a farce.
Doc Mike: "About half or more occurs at conception" I was talking about the nurture (rearing) half of nature-nurture.
So what you are saying is gestation is responsible for a full half of the "nature" half. This must mean, therefore, ergo environmental factors (diet, drugs, stress, strain, etc.) are another major reason why climbing out of economic and social poverty is so difficult.
Y'all just carry on - it makes blacks hate you.
Yes, I know and it is killing you.
Young black males are doing what they can about the crime problem by killing each other and you hate whites.
Your paranoia is not helping.
This must mean, therefore, ergo environmental factors (diet, drugs, stress, strain, etc.) are another major reason why climbing out of economic and social poverty is so difficult.
I hope so or all the trouble we take with our kids is wasted.
Some of the trouble blacks have had the last 50 years is policy, begun by Johnson. Some is genetics, which Crack hates.
The hollowing out of physical labor and "blue collar" jobs by immigration hurts black worse but Crack hates whites.
The Griggs vs Duke Power hurts blacks and low income whites worse but Crack hates whites.
Stephen Pinker believes all behavior is genetics but I hope he is wrong. I think the high tech left does believe it.
Like Presbyterians, the left thinks getting into Harvard/Yale is an indicator of intelligence. Then they suck it out again with idiot professors. What is taught, once they are in, is of secondary importance.
aint no cuntry cawl wess afracuh so aint no buddy from wess afrucuh! DUH!!!
If no one else said it, obviously the boy has brain damage. He is mentally retarded. He is a functional retard, which is the worse kind.
His brain damage may be from drugs, it may be from some environmental poisoning during pregnancy, we can never tell.
Bottom line: most brain damaged people should be removed from society. A few of them should be allowed day trips to enjoy donuts, or the beach, but by evening they should be back in their padded room.
Have you expounded on how you almost had to kill a man?
I almost shot a man in Reno, just to watch him almost die.
Michael K said...
Y'all just carry on - it makes blacks hate you.
"Your paranoia is not helping."
It's not paranoia to know history - it's a crime whites don't know it.
It's not paranoia to know history - it's a crime whites don't know it.
Making up your own history is not a crime, either, but it is pretty stupid.
Tell me which countries were in West Africa in 1700?
I blame a cowardly American society, trying to win a war of attrition by just letting shit go until generations burn the past away, and damn who gets killed in the meantime and how.
That's called "American Values."
There are plenty of whites who want to improve blacks American circumstances. Unfortunately this requires partnership with blacks and essentially all politically engaged blacks would rather express their hatred for whites than work to improve circumstances for black Americans. This includes groups like BLM and also non-affiliated racists like Crack.
Every time Crack responds with his whitey hating rhetoric he reinforces that his priority is venting hatred not helping blacks. Most people aren't going to work with or allow themselves to be motivated by open racists. That's all there is to it.
"Where are American blacks from?"
Where are second-gen Bangladeshis from? Razib Khan say?
Or my wife? She knows no-one in Mexico.
They can't go home again either.
The US and especially places like Los Angeles are seducers, separators, blenders.
I may be wrong on this point, but I have been to Georgia and North Carolina.
I thought that the traditional peasantry of the Southern US lowlands was mainly black.
That is, the black American heritage is of villages and small towns, a rural population.
Oppressed sharecropping peasants like billions of others on Earth, of a lower caste even there, as also in the case of billions of others on Earth.
The urban populations are relatively new and just like any third-world migration to cities this involves dissociation from their rural roots.
I have to say that this mockery of The Crack Emcee is just not working for me. Not that anyone cares, go fuck myself, fine. And I certainly disagree with a lot he says. But the contemptuous disrespect is...not good. Pointless. If you think him low, then why lower yourselves to his perceived level? Why don't you just ignore him instead of playing Monty Python? You think he's faking it? You are all Ritmo.
Why don't you just ignore him instead of playing Monty Python? You think he's faking it? You are all Ritmo.
No, I think he really believes this stuff. I am not ridiculing him. Genetics will probably help blacks find where their ancestors came from, even without the fiction of "Roots."
If genetics can find the Golden State Killer, I think Crack could find out where those who share his DNA came from. Of course there has been a lot of mixture over the centuries but I suspect that a lot of slaves came from the same areas and same tribes.
I interview African blacks joining the US military. I have had African blacks as medical students.
The difference between them and most American blacks is mostly psychological.
Slavery is much to blame but blacks were making great progress until 1965. Read some of Thomas Sowell's books.
"The TV documentary about Trayvon Martin is a whitewash. Since he was a Dextromethorphan (DXM) addict, he became a criminal and a maniac. Eventually he attacked George Zimmerman, who fortunately was armed with a gun and so was able to save his own life by shooting Trayvon to death in self-defense."
George Zimmerman's behavior in the years since he killed Trayvon Martin simply convince me all the more that Zimmerman was the instigator and aggressor in the encounter that ended with Martin shot dead on the ground.
Michael K said...
"Tell me which countries were in West Africa in 1700?"
That's not my history - thanks to you.
That's not my history - thanks to you.
Nice dodge.
I assume you are not interested is discussing real things, even if they might accomplish something for you.
OK, I'll take the advice to ignore you.
You cannot define most american blacks by what you read on internet or see on tv.
OK I guess you and Crack don't want any discussion. Fair enough.
Rick said...
"There are plenty of whites who want to improve blacks American circumstances."
I understand that.
"Unfortunately this requires partnership with blacks and essentially all politically engaged blacks would rather express their hatred for whites than work to improve circumstances for black Americans."
Tell that to Drago and FullMoon and Michael K, who will jump down the throat of any black in sight for showing up, and then get back to me.
"This includes groups like BLM and also non-affiliated racists like Crack."
Right. I have lots of white friends, but I'm a racist because I want the same think MLK did. Y'all never did like him. I know why you pretend otherwise. And that too is a lie. It's amazing.
"Every time Crack responds with his whitey hating rhetoric he reinforces that his priority is venting hatred not helping blacks."
That's what happened. I showed up and starting spouting racism and all the white people were calm, cool, and collected, like I had interrupted a room full of William F. Buckley's, right?
Didn't I tell y'all about my first day at a white school? They sat me between to white boys, minding my own business, when one leans over and says "Hey, Scotty, you like niggers?" And the other responds, "Yeah, I think everybody ought to own one."
I got blamed for the fight.
That was the beginning of cutting school, something I'd never done before.
That's what this man is trying to do here.
"Most people aren't going to work with or allow themselves to be motivated by open racists."
Black people would certainly agree.
"That's all there is to it."
Thanks. Now go kill the Jews, or kick Indian heads down the street, or whatever you people do when you're not misinterpreting everything involving black skin.
Jeez.
You can reconstruct an identity, recreate an ethnicity.
Or create a new one, partially artificial. But who is to say what was artificial and to what degree, this is a fuzzy subject, and should not be lightly dismissed.
This all has been done, surprisingly often, and goes very far back. The Romans went through periods of re-adoption of old customs. In modern times its almost ubiquitous in post-colonial societies. There was, as I understand it, such a program with respect to Africanisation in the US. Contrary to the ridicule I think it was a sound idea.
Recreated languages, reintroduced customs and national identities are all over. The Basques for instance, created a modern and useful form of Basque, when it was near death (it was near gone when we lived there, my grandfather spoke none at all), and reintroduced it, and made it mandatory in schools. The whole thing has been an amazing success.
The same sort of thing could certainly have been done in the US, with respect to some West African tongue and its associated customs. I think the mental discipline of this helps cohesion and social discipline.
Michael K said...
That's not my history - thanks to you.
"Nice dodge."
What makes me the expert on African history? Didn't this start with me describing the DISCONNECTION I have from the place? Then why would you think I know it in 1700?
Let's talk AMERICAN HISTORY - what's occurred here - since that's where the crime I'm upset about happened. This is where whites violated their own laws, not in Africa - that's your dodge.
Step up, Boy-o and let's have at it:
I'll have you sucking Jefferson's dick for dinner.
MikeR, who you quote, is not only an idiot, he's a damned fool.
Actually, you could say that. Or not. We have no way of knowing what the parents were like. Maybe the mother was domineering. Maybe the father's job significantly limited his time at home. Maybe he was too strict, and the son is rebelling.
Quite. One of my brothers in law was an outstanding man. He had a 35+ year naval career that started when he was drafted during Vietnam, zoomed up to chief (the youngest in the history of the Navy at the time), became an officer, and retired as a captain. He had a son who distinguished himself in the Army, a daughter who distinguished herself in the Air Force, and another son who started his long and rocky love affair with drugs and crime in junior high and didn't stop until his girlfriend/drug partner told him she was pregnant and he promptly walked out of their fleabag motel and into traffic, ruining his family's and some innocent driver's lives with his suicide. You just never know how people will turn out.
Full Moon, you need to work on your hostility.
Also your facts.
What you get when you search "Model A 1933 Ford."
Everybody but you calls them Model As. But go ahead. You got all pissy when I mentioned my daughter and housing prices near Cupertino. I guess you just like to fight.
No thanks. Talk to yourself.
Crack, you were the one who objected to a comment about West Africa.
You and Full Moon deserve each other.
Not the normal IQ levels around here.
I have lots of white friends, but I'm a racist because I want the same think MLK did.
Ah, the old "some of my best friends are black" routine. Compelling.
"Y'all never did like him."
Oops, your racism slipped out again.
Tell that to Drago and FullMoon and Michael K, who will jump down the throat of any black in sight for showing up,
Not for showing up, for expressing your racism. Like this:
Now go kill the Jews, or kick Indian heads down the street, or whatever you people do when you're not misinterpreting everything involving black skin.
Didn't I tell y'all about my first day at a white school? They sat me between to white boys, minding my own business, when one leans over and says "Hey, Scotty, you like niggers?" And the other responds, "Yeah, I think everybody ought to own one."
I got blamed for the fight.
That seems a shame. But to be analogous to the circumstances here some random black kid from another class (or another school) would have to be blamed for the fight. After all you think people who share skin color are guilty of each others acts.
You cannot define most american blacks by what you read on internet or see on tv.
OK I guess you and Crack don't want any discussion. Fair enough.
8/9/18, 2:20 PM
Discuss the murderers family.
Discuss any middle class blacks you know personally.
Discuss any upper class blacks you know personally.
C'mon doc, let's argue.
Discuss your stupid generalization about American Blacks.
I don't give a rat's ass about your ignorance re: Model A's. I am in the culture.
I don't give a fuck about your repetetive ignorance about housing in Silicon Valley. I live here. Your daughter could have rented or leased a decent place for a couple of thou. Case closed.
Btw, the attack on a Sikh man by Nazis in Modesto CA smells of horse shit.
The men supposedly ambushed him at night while wearing hoods, and threw sand in his eyes, and yet he was able to see that they had blue eyes.
AFTER THE BEATING they painted an obscure Celtic symbol used by Nazis on his truck, a symbol that naturally would strike fear in any Sikh, LOL.
Someone noticed that if you watch something moderately political on YouTube, the autoplay algorithm will serve up increasingly radical fare, until without lifting a finger you’re watching the most extreme, loathsome bile of Left or Right (depending on where you started).
Althouse’s comments are like that.
Robert Cook at 2:00 PM
George Zimmerman's behavior in the years since he killed Trayvon Martin simply convince me all the more that Zimmerman was the instigator and aggressor in the encounter that ended with Martin shot dead on the ground.
There was a long trial, televised, and the jury unanimously acquitted Zimmerman on all charges.
That's more significant than your impression of Zimmerman's behavior after the trial.
Robert Cook at 2:00 PM
George Zimmerman's behavior in the years since he killed Trayvon Martin simply convince me all the more that Zimmerman was the instigator and aggressor in the encounter that ended with Martin shot dead on the ground.
Trayvon Martin was a codeine addict who paid for his codeine by burglarizing people's homes. He was kicked out of his school for fighting and vandalism. He was kicked out of his mother's home for fighting.
George Zimmerman was attending college classes, majoring in criminal justice. He was a neighborhood-watch volunteer.
There was a long trial, televised, and the jury unanimously acquitted Zimmerman on all charges.
"That's more significant than your impression of Zimmerman's behavior after the trial."
There are many trials where innocent people have been convicted of crimes, and guilty people acquitted. I served on a jury where we acquitted the defendant of a crime that most of us thought he was probably guilty of, because the state failed to prove his guilt to us beyond a reasonable doubt. His lawyers provided a very plausible defense that the prosecution failed to even address, much less to counter, and their witness against him--and his testimony from a prior trial held for our defendant's accomplice--did not do the prosecution's case any favors.
Did this mean we believed he was clearly innocent? No, it just means there was sufficient doubt that we agreed that acquittal was the only just verdict.
"Trayvon Martin was a codeine addict who paid for his codeine by burglarizing people's homes. He was kicked out of his school for fighting and vandalism. He was kicked out of his mother's home for fighting.
"George Zimmerman was attending college classes, majoring in criminal justice. He was a neighborhood-watch volunteer."
This is not pertinent to the specific facts of what happened that evening. Just as Zimmerman's later behavior is not legally pertinent to what happened that evening. But my reading of the reported events of that night, coupled with Zimmerman's own behavior in the years since, leads me to believe, as I said, that he was the instigator and aggressor that night.
Lively discussion here today.
Learned a lot about how things go south quickly.
Learned that white folks have a hard time having a civil discussion with minorities.
Learned that minorities have a hard time having a civil discussion with white folks.
Unless one side shuts up and nods.
Different cultures.
Lots of one-upsmanship.
Lots of fingers in ears, la la la.
Everybody should cool their jets.
Or not.
Be Best.
Or not.
In short, even a drug-addicted burglar has a right not to be gunned down if he is not caught in the act of a crime and is not seeking a confrontation, (but is pursued and harassed by a stranger in the night).
This is not pertinent to the specific facts of what happened that evening. Just as Zimmerman's later behavior is not legally pertinent to what happened that evening.
Note that when the evidence supports Cook's politics he considers it regardless of the legal issues. When it contravenes his political interest the legal requirements prevent him from considering it even outside the legal framework.
This is how bias works. People can always find a reason to dismiss inconvenient evidence as long as they are sufficiently motivated to do so.
Cookie, some of us read the whole thing on CTH including videos from teh 7-11 and a ,lot of stuff that did not get in the papers or on TV,
The events were pretty clear and some were altered by the TV. Like Zimmerman's call to 911.
Full Moon, you have problems that I choose not to get involved with.
"Note that when the evidence supports Cook's politics he considers it regardless of the legal issues. When it contravenes his political interest the legal requirements prevent him from considering it even outside the legal framework."
This is not a "political" judgement, but is my opinion of what happened based on what I have read about that night and about Zimmerman's character as illustrated by his subsequent history.
Considering what Zimmerman went through in and out of the legal system, it isn't that surprising he went off the rails. He must feel like there's a target on his back even now.
It's possible the public kick in the pants this father gave his thuggish son will counteract what prison time will do, but I have my doubts.
Michael K said...
Full Moon, you have problems that I choose not to get involved with.
8/9/18, 6:49 PM
Can't handle correction, eh? HaHa!
Something for Crack and Full Moon to watch
Blogger Michael K said...
Something for Crack and Full Moon to watch
8/9/18, 8:01 PM
Uh, NOPE. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Here is a nice Model A for ya !
Beautiful 1931 Ford Model A Tudor Sedan. Original straight 4, 3-Speed. Show quality. Interior immaculate. Two-Tone Black & Brown with red pinstripe/rims. Tan interior.
$15K or best offer
based on what I have read about that night and about Zimmerman's character as illustrated by his subsequent history.
And also your dismissing what is known about Martin's character by applying a legal tenet you know isn't applicable.
This is not a "political" judgement,
It's too late to turn to comedy.
Full Moon, are you also black ?
Just wondering. There is certainly a similarity. Just asking.
Blogger Michael K said...
Full Moon, are you also black ?
Just wondering. There is certainly a similarity. Just asking.
8/9/18, 8:24 PM
List a couple of 'similarities', or stereotypes. You decide.
Mike K.
Are you a toothless revolutionary. There is certainly a similarity.
Not, I guess.
FullMoon said...
Michael K said...
Full Moon, you have problems that I choose not to get involved with.
8/9/18, 6:49 PM
Can't handle correction, eh? HaHa!
8/9/18, 7:51 PM
Full Moon, pray consider what you are about.
When, at a party, some guy tells you that you're drunk, you can call him an asshole. When five or six people tell you that you're drunk, sit down and start hitting the black coffee.
You're making Ritmo look like a reasonable chap. Please stop doing that. Have some coffee.
And, https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars-for-sale/ford-model_a-for-sale?limit=100
Has in the first page, listings for $75K and $85K, and plenty from $30-40K.
So YMMV.
The Crack Emcee said...
buwaya said...
Nah - imagine you have a past but you can't grasp it - and you're walking into the future that way. Where are American blacks from? You don't know anymore than I do. That's not how the rest of you are engaging with the world. Things you take for granted don't exist for me. Never have. I can't go "home" whether it's the place of my birth or the place of my people.
I'm 63 and 4 generations removed from my last ancestor who could have owned slaves. Which means you're at least 4 generation removed from anyone who could have been a slave in the United States. You're actually pretty lucky to be here. If your ancestors hadn't had economic value to their captors to be sold as slaves, they'd have been killed. Your last African born ancestors were in one way or another, losers. But that's a whole different thing to consider. What you and I both have in common is- we're Americans. There is no other place for me to go back to. I can trace where my ancestors came from, but I've never been there.
There are lot of blacks around with my mother's surname. Odds are a DNA test would show we're related. Which means their ancestry tracks back to pre-revolution days. My black distant relatives include a Tuskegee airman, Colonels and privates, doctors and preachers, and more recently, inmates. My white distant relatives with that surname include pilots, but not from Tuskegee, Colonels and privates, quite a few Navy types, doctors and preachers, and a lesser number of inmates. The ones who've had brushes with the law seem to be concentrated in one state, one family line...
You don't need to know where you're from to know where you're going. No one's future, in America, is determined by their ancestors. We have no royalty or hereditary castes.
Gospace said...
"I'm 63 and 4 generations removed from my last ancestor who could have owned slaves. Which means you're at least 4 generation removed from anyone who could have been a slave in the United States."
You forget sharecropping was a form of slavery, or that slavery didn't end immediately. White people got away with crimes against blacks for centuries without anyone raising a finger to stop it. I knew these people: ancient old black women who spit tobacco and told stories of how it was, then living in a Los Angeles home in the ghetto, growing collard greens and tomatoes and watermelon where white ladies plant their roses.
I hate to say this - but do repeatedly: you guys are so removed from the nation you live in, and the experience you unleashed on blacks, that you really ought not speak on it because you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. You can't grasp the level of distrust because you don't acknowledge the true depth, or length, of the crimes. You believe lies and bullshit and have never checked to see if that's what they are.
In that way, you're the equivalent of hippies.
Gospace said...
"I'm 63 and 4 generations removed from my last ancestor who could have owned slaves. Which means you're at least 4 generation removed from anyone who could have been a slave in the United States."
You forget sharecropping was a form of slavery, or that slavery didn't end immediately. White people got away with crimes against blacks for centuries without anyone raising a finger to stop it. I knew these people: ancient old black women who spit tobacco and told stories of how it was, then living in a Los Angeles home in the ghetto, growing collard greens and tomatoes and watermelon where white ladies plant their roses.
I hate to say this - but do repeatedly: you guys are so removed from the nation you live in, and the experience you unleashed on blacks, that you really ought not speak on it because you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. You can't grasp the level of distrust because you don't acknowledge the true depth, or length, of the crimes. You believe lies and bullshit and have never checked to see if that's what they are.
In that way, you're the equivalent of hippies.
Thank you, Althouse, for the "IN THE COMMENTS" nod. Gave me a dopamine hit, lol.
Your blog has been a go-to since the Walker protests. Hope you're blogging away for many, many more years to come.
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