November 13, 2017

"Woman Says Roy Moore Tried to Rape Her When She Was 16 and Signed Her Yearbook."

Headline at The Daily Beast.
That night, Moore signed her high-school yearbook then offered to give her a ride home in his car, [Beverly Young] Nelson said. She accepted the offer, but instead of getting on the highway, she alleged, Moore parked in the back [of the restaurant where she worked]. Nelson said she asked Moore what he was doing.

“Instead of answering my question, Mr. Moore reached over and began groping me, putting his hands on my breasts,” Nelson said through tears. “I tried to open my car door to leave, but he reached over and locked it so I could not get out. I tried fighting him off, while yelling at him to stop, but instead of stopping he began squeezing my neck attempting to force my head onto his crotch. I continued to struggle. I was determined that I was not going to allow him to force me to have sex with him. I was terrified. He was also trying to pull my shirt off. I thought that he was going to rape me. I was twisting and struggling and begging him to stop. I had tears running down my face. At some point he gave up. He then looked at me and said, ‘You are a child. I am the District Attorney of Etowah County. If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you.'... He finally allowed me to open the car door and I either fell out or he pushed me out. I was on the ground as he pulled out of the parking area behind the restaurant. The passenger door was open as he burned rubber pulling away leaving me laying there on the cold concrete in the dark.”

201 comments:

1 – 200 of 201   Newer›   Newest»
pious agnostic said...

Burn the whole place to the ground.

harrogate said...

Alabama voters' response: "but so what because , Bortions!"

Mike Sylwester said...

That's a story I do not believe.

tim in vermont said...

I was for dumping him when he flashed a gun from a podium at a rally.

Mike Sylwester said...

He then looked at me and said, ‘You are a child. I am the District Attorney of Etowah County. ‘If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you...

Oh, come on.

Unknown said...

I suspect she had an encounter with Weinstein and has changed the name to suit her politics.

--Vance

tim in vermont said...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/10/doug_jones_ad_confederate_officer_brave_soldiers_believed_in_their_cause.html

Quaestor said...

Why now?

MayBee said...

Here's a mystery this is making me think about: Why did Gloria Allred, super Democrat and friend of Hillary, represent Anthony Weiner's accuser? What was going on there?

Tim Gilliland said...

I have no idea if this story is true or not, but Gloria Allred??? How many times has she trotted out a woman now to accuse some celebrity/candidate of sex crimes? Isn't this about her 4th or 5th time at bat? I have never heard of a single one actually coming to trial or settlement... Anyone know how that working out for her?

rhhardin said...

If a woman dislikes a man, it's because he did something bad to her. End of story.

wwww said...

He then looked at me and said, ‘You are a child. I am the District Attorney of Etowah County. ‘If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you...

Oh, come on.



As much as this sounds like some evil character out of a movie -- it's pretty typical for child abuse. They do say shit like this. Warn your kids to watch for it. Let your kids know you will believe them.

John Tuffnell said...

Naughty Boy Roy.

No mas. No mas.

William Chadwick said...

There's a good cartoon (as there is almost every day) in the IMAO blog. It shows Roy Moore holding a press conference to announce that he's changing his name to "Senator Bob Menendez." The press asks, "Who?" To which Moore replies, "Exactly."

tcrosse said...

Who pays Gloria Allred's fee, or does she do this Pro Bono ? Or is it on Contingency ?
Just curious.

sparrow said...

There's no way to tell the truth from a smear; and no way for an innocent man to clear himself.

AllenS said...

I expect 3,278 more juvenile girls/women to step forward with the same claim.

Martha said...

I do not understand why this teenager did not immediately tell her parents about the alleged assault.
How did her mother not see the bruises on her neck?
How did her family and boyfriends not notice that she was traumatized?

Until today, she told no one of the alleged assault.

does not add up

Kevin said...

‘You are a child. I am the District Attorney of Etowah County. ‘If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you...

Is there anything he could have said that would have been more incriminating? Is there anything he could have said that would make her more sympathetic to the pubic today?

I suppose he could have added, "You are an underage minor. The kind I like to sexually abuse. I estimate your age to be 12 to 14 years of age. And if you use that comment I wrote in your yearbook to validate that I not only knew you but took you out back, groped you, and left you crying on the pavement, I'm going to kill your family!"

Outside of that, I doubt it. So I doubt the accuracy of this statement.

Not that anything happened - I don't have enough evidence to decide one way or another. But the remembered wording of his statement seems way too on-the-nose to be remembered accurately all these years later.

Earnest Prole said...

Since your commenters apparently believe Republicans do not commit sexual assaults, maybe it will help them to know that Roy Moore was a Democrat when he committed this one.

Patrick Henry was right! said...

So, the GOPe is now talking about vetoing a decision by the voters of Alabama to elect Judge Moore by not seating him or removing him????

And its the conservatives who are the problem?????

McConnell talks like Bannon nominated Judge Moore, not the Republicans of Alabama. This is how political parties end. the GOPe is going the way of the Whigs. Good bye and good riddance.

Steve Bannon is right, the GOPe needs to learn how to lose a primary, be graceful in defeat and then go support the voters' choice in the general. But that never happens, does it.

They did this same thing to Ken Cuccinelli, promising that, in 4 years, Ed Gillespie would make everyone forget McAuliffe - who would be so much better than the main stream conservative Cuccinelli.

Patrick Henry was right! said...

Where is McConnell in the process expelling Sen. Menendez?????

Any day now.

hombre said...

Say, don't I remember that car doors in the seventies unlocked from the inside by lifting the handle?

Allred better win in the court of public opinion. This woman and her canned, detailed, 40-year old statement will not do well under cross-examination.

Patrick Henry was right! said...

One more thing, who in the world would try to rape somebody and then later that same evening sign their yearbook??????

Over-under on the recantation of these allegations after the election?

I'll take under 60 days.

readering said...

From news report:

Nelson said the alleged attack happened just days after Moore signed her yearbook on Dec. 22, 1977. Nelson said she had been flattered when Moore asked to sign her Gadsden High School yearbook. The book, which was shown at the press conference by Allred, includes this message: "To a sweeter more beautiful girl, I could not say Merry Christmas." Allred says it's signed by Roy Moore, of the Etowah County District Attorney's Office.

david rieck said...

This whole deal reeks to high heaven. Such a propitious time for all the accusers to sound off.

tcrosse said...

What's in it for her ?

Bay Area Guy said...

The allegation does have specifics. It's not rape, or even attempted rape, but, if true, is still unacceptable behavior. Were I the girl's father, I would have punched out Roy.

The problem is that 40 year old allegations have all sorts of red flags.

It could easily be they were making out, and old Roy tried to go from 1st base to 2nd base and got shut down. The fact that he was 30 and she 16 is no doubt creepy. However, the Alabama age of consent is 16, so he's in the clear legally.

I'm glad I'm not voting in Alabama.

Kevin said...

As much as this sounds like some evil character out of a movie -- it's pretty typical for child abuse. They do say shit like this. Warn your kids to watch for it. Let your kids know you will believe them.

"no one will believe you." Totally believable that he might have said it to her.

"You are a child." The child thing plays into the 14 year-old line the media was pushing. He would be saying she was totally without agency, which doesn't help his case. It does help the media's case that he dated "children", so I think it's more likely that she was fed these lines during questioning by the media and her attorney - "you were just a child, right?"

"I am the District Attorney of Etowah County." Seems way to on the nose to me. I'm a lawyer, maybe. I'm the District Attorney, maybe. But "of xxxx county"? Again, seems like the journalists and her attorney may have fed her, "and he was the District Attorney of Etowah County, right?"

Let's keep in mind he said he didn't remember her, so he can't challenge what he might have said. It creates a window that she can say he said anything at all, without his ability to challenge her version of events. I'm sure her lawyers are very clear about this opening and have molded her recollection "He said no one would believe me" into something more damning - and useful to their cause.

And again, I'm not saying that he didn't do what she said he did. I just think these words are a little too perfect for such a long-ago recollection.

Gospace said...

Wait a minute. She wasn't interested in someone twice her age. Yet, she had her HS yearbook at work- and asked him to sign it? WTF? That makes no sense at all whatsoever. The only people who signed my yearbook, or that of anyone I know- were teachers and students and others IN THAT HIGH SCHOOL! No one took their yearbook to the mayor or the DA or their boss at work or the guy who sat in the corner of the diner every night and said "Here, sign my yearbook please!"

Sounds like a made up tale from a woman scorned.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Make, model and color of the car he drove and that you claim you were trapped in... quick.

And who gets a high school yearbook in December?

hombre said...

Earnest Prole said...
"Since your commenters apparently believe Republicans do not commit sexual assaults,...."

Crikey! Did you guys say "Republicans do not commit sexual assault?" Shame, shame on you.

Matthew Sablan said...

Just to consolidate my comments; the yearbook signature is great, if our goal is to find the truth. It gives us a date and time to investigate. If, for example, it turns out he wasn't even at the diner on Dec. 22, 1977, then he's in the clear. If it turns out the yearbooks weren't published until the end of the year, then the signature becomes unreliable.

It gives us a point to start an investigation from; it existing isn't enough to prove he did anything.

Then, even if we CAN prove he signed it, that doesn't prove the assault. But, it does make him look a lot less trustworthy, since some thirty year old dude going to a restaurant to hit on the high school waitresses is skeezy.

Sebastian said...

"old Roy tried to go from 1st base to 2nd base and got shut down" Not excusing Roy, but pray tell, precisely how does one do so without the lady claiming harassment afterward? What move is acceptable, short of the feminist solution that a man just needs to wait to for a woman to ask, "wanna fuck?" And what, if anything, will protect a man against smears 40 years later?

The Godfather said...

Like hombre above, I don't think doors of cars circa 1977 could be locked by the driver so the passenger couldn't get out. Does anyone remember differently?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Is there anything he could have said that would have been more incriminating? Is there anything he could have said that would make her more sympathetic to the pubic today?"

-- He could have signed the yearbook with the date and location of the assault.

Gabriel said...

He wasn't the District Attorney, in 1977 or at any other time.

In 1977 he graduated law school. In December 1977 he was just hired to the DA's office. But he was not DA. He was brand new, fresh out of law school.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Oh, there's Gloria Allred. Now I'm convinced.

Quaestor said...

The story as related reads like a bodice-ripper by Barbara Cartland.

Gospace said...

BTW, Moore spent 5 years in the military as an officer following his graduation from USMA. At some point in the 4 years at West Point and his 5 years of service as an officer this type of behavior would have come out. Where's all the enlisted women he harassed? Junior officers? And what about his time at law school? After all, 1 in 5 women in college are raped- and Democrats are trying to paint him as one of the rapists. He must have raped more than his fair share.

Matthew Sablan said...

"One more thing, who in the world would try to rape somebody and then later that same evening sign their yearbook??????"

-- You have the the order of operations backwards. He signed, dated and notarized the location in the yearbook prior to offering her a ride and assaulting her, according to her statements.

Quaestor said...

She left out the part where Fabio, the infamous highwayman, galloped to the rescue.

Kansas City said...

What a mess. Story seems made up. He seems very weird. "Solution" seems evolving. He runs and wins. Then R's refuse to seat him. Seat vacant again. Governor appoints replacement. Then new election, at regular election in 2018.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Yet, she had her HS yearbook at work- and asked him to sign it?"

-- If we're going to attack her statement, let's get the facts right. She alleges he offered to sign it, if my reading is correct. She was flattered and said sure.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Governor appoints replacement."

-- Screw that noise. If I were the governor, there is no way I'd appoint someone. I'd say the voters have spoken, either seat their choice or go without your vote. If Alabamans decide they want Moore, then you give it to the voters -- good and hard.

Gospace said...

The Godfather said...
Like hombre above, I don't think doors of cars circa 1977 could be locked by the driver so the passenger couldn't get out. Does anyone remember differently?


From memory, which could be wrong, that started in the early '80's with foreign cars. Took a while longer to get to American ones. And was in the back seats before it made it to the passenger side. But that is a good question for someone who wants to do some research.

Sounds like the kind of detail that someone who's not aware of the rate of change of technology would include. Like perfect centering and proportional spacing on a routine ANG memo from the early 1970's.

James Pawlak said...

I suggest that such accusers be required to affirm their claims "on oath or affirmation" (Best before a magistrate) after being informed that their failure to provide, legally sound, proofs could result in jail terms for perjury or "false swearing".

Gospace said...

Matthew Sablan said...
"Yet, she had her HS yearbook at work- and asked him to sign it?"

-- If we're going to attack her statement, let's get the facts right. She alleges he offered to sign it, if my reading is correct. She was flattered and said sure.


Either way- name me one person you know who brought their HS yearbook to work and had it on display for people to see. For me, that would be no one.

hombre said...

I don't pretend to know what Moore did or didn't do. This course of events surely has confirmed my suspicions about Senate Republicans lacking integrity, courage and intelligence.

Also, it does seem handy that the two women claiming misconduct look to be nearly judgment proof.

Jim at said...

Nelson said the alleged attack happened just days after Moore signed her yearbook on Dec. 22, 1977.

Uh-huh. And everybody whose high school yearbook came out at Christmas time please raise your hands.

That's what I thought.

Matthew Sablan said...

No, I agree. That's not how I ever saw yearbooks being used in the late 90s/early 00s. But, I also never saw yearbooks printed in December. So, maybe Alabama in the 1970s were weird.

Or, maybe she got the yearbook, brought it with her to work since she went there straight from school, and Moore saw her carrying it. She may have no intent of having someone else sign it, but like she said, she was flattered and didn't say no when he offered to write a message in it.

I'm not convinced, but I'm glad we have a point that, if Moore pushes, we can investigate from and verify some points of the accusation to at least see if it stands up to the most basic levels of scrutiny.

Matthew Sablan said...

Wait -- I need to review her statement again. I thought the assault happened the same day as the signing.

William said...

I wonder what percentage of voters will vote for Moore not because they believe him but because they want to flip off Gloria Allred and the Washington Post. Some of the stories are credible, but the timing of these stories raises all kinds of red flags.

Drago said...

Its all very simple:

1. Lefties/LLR join forces to create a manufactured event against anti-Washington conservative
2. Once elected, Lefties/LLR's refuse to seat anti-Washington conservative
3. Lefties/LLR's get Alabama Gov to seat Hillary Clinton in his place
4. ????
5. Hillary is President!

hombre said...

"He wasn't the District Attorney, in 1977 or at any other time."

Gloria didn't finish her homework.

Matthew Sablan said...

Politico is an embarrassment. Headline: Woman accuses Moore of assaulting her when she was 16; in the body of the text: "After Nelson gave her statement, Allred presented Nelson’s high school yearbook from 1977, carrying a note from Moore, which is signed, “Roy Moore, D.A.” She was 15 years old at the time."

Can news agencies please figure out how AGES work?

Matthew Sablan said...

If the signature isn't from the same night as the assault... even if it is proven to be Moore's signature... it's... kind of useless. Because Christmas was Dec. 26, 1977, if my quick Google-fu is up to par. So, that really only puts the days he could have assaulted her between Dec. 23-24. Anything after that is pushing "a few days later" a lot. So, now Moore needs to come up with alibis for two days -- or more! If he has them for those days, I'm sure the goal posts will slide to, "Oh, it must have been after Christmas."

Put down a specific date. Give the guy a chance to defend himself.

Drago said...

"...but the timing of these stories raises all kinds of red flags."

The entire operation is as closely coordinated as a political hit job can be.

The dems and their LLR's are getting better at it since their surprise defeat last November. The sequencing of the accusations (MSM hyping), then rapid dem response (MSM hyping), then rapid LLR/establishment republican response (and MSM hyping) demonstrates clear calculation and prior planning.

However, it still looks like the Lefty/LLR Dan Rather supporting losers don't understand how to time it all just a tad closer to the election to make sure there is no response time, as there was with "W" and the lefts lies about his national guard service.



Martha said...

Jerry Seinfeld was 38 years old when he met a 17 year old Shoshanna Lonstein, a high school student, in Central Park.
They dated for years.

There was no outrage at the time—but some jokes:

"Jerry Seinfeld proposed to Shoshanna Lonstein on the night of her 21st birthday. Apparently he wanted to wait to make sure she wasn't just using him to buy beer."

-- Conan O'Brien, on "Late Night"

pious agnostic said...

There are any number of reasons why she might have a yearbook at her work. Maybe she wanted to show a friend something inside; maybe she expected to see someone (home for the holiday?) and get them to sign; maybe she was going to take somewhere after work. That's just three. The paucity of your own imagination in this area doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Other aspects of her story do sound contrived; but the yearbook's presence in it doesn't faze me.

AllenS said...

Is there anyone on this blog that can provide an alibi for Dec. 26, 1977? Anyone?

Matthew Sablan said...

My alibi is unimpeachable. I wasn't even a gleam in my daddy's eye, as the saying goes.

Lydia said...

I don't think doors of cars circa 1977 could be locked by the driver so the passenger couldn't get out.

The Lincoln Continental had a central locking system in 1961.

richard mcenroe said...

In 1977 he was fresh put of law achool. No way he was DA thst fast.

Mike Sylwester said...

And who gets a high school yearbook in December?

I too thought that was odd.

Gabriel said...

@richard mcenroe:In 1977 he was fresh put of law achool. No way he was DA thst fast.

He was never DA. In 1977 he had been hired to the DA's office, but he never was DA.

Matthew Sablan said...

Wiki lists him as the Assistant D.A. starting in 1977. Which I could see a high schooler losing that specific detail.

readering said...

Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?

gadfly said...

News media investigations clearly are not designed or organized to handle complex crimes like rape, incest or sexual assault. Yet investigative reporters have employed interview bias in order to dupe alleged victims into making countless allegations of sexual assault against public officials and famous people - despite the fact that said reporters lack both the tools generally available to law enforcement to ensure a thorough investigation. Trial by media is neither fair nor ethical.

Unfair proceedings that lead to unreliable outcomes benefit no one. Both victims and the accused suffer when allegations of serious felonies are adjudicated online by persons with an agenda. I am reminded of the daycare center fiasco of the late eighties and early nineties when so-called psychologists decided that children were being abused and these same professionals convinced young malleable minds that imagined acts were true.

Our drive-by media still believes that Bill Cosby has raped every woman he had sex with over the past fifty years but not a single charge has held up in court.

rcocean said...

Everything except a mustache twirl and a railroad track.

Gabriel said...

@Matthew Sablan:Which I could see a high schooler losing that specific detail.

Seems odd that he wouldn't know it though--since that's supposedly his signature "Roy Moore DA".

rcocean said...

And he didn't try to "rape her".

I'm also trying to understand how he could try to take her dress off, while having her hand at her throat and "bending it toward his penis" - sound incredibly awkward and difficult.

1977 - 40 years ago.

Unknown said...

“Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?”

Because they’re a bunch of Rightists and Trumpists. I’m not at all surprised.

pious agnostic said...

Blogger readering said...

Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?

By all means, weigh in. Do you have damning facts not currently in evidence? I for one would live to see what you come up with.

rcocean said...

And of course, she never went to her parents in 1977, or told the police. 'Cause everyone was scared of big, bad, "DA" Roy Moore.

Yeah.

And as a "life long Republican" she teaming up with Gloria Alred, another "life long Republican".

Yancey Ward said...

Was the yearbook from 1978 or 1977? When I was in high school, you got the yearbook the early in the next year (August for me) since it took the printer time to produce and ship them. I imagine there are number of high schools that worked that way. I can imagine that some schools got them done in time to get them in May or June of the same class year. So my question is pretty simple- what is the year on the book itself (not the date Moore is alleged to have added)?

Matthew Sablan said...

That's... a good point about his signature. I've not got a defense for that (like I was able to come up with why the yearbook was there). Maybe he was trying to impress her? Do we have any other signatures from that time for him; maybe he just signed DA instead of ADA because? I don't know, but if we want to impeach the signature, that seems like a good part to start.

RCOcean: When reading a statement, we have to give it the most generous reading. So, I think the answer is that he is alleged to have done all those things, though not necessarily at the same time. But, yes. I always thought sex in a car was awkward and difficult; I imagine it becomes more so if one of the parties is unwilling. This isn't to say I believe her, but I think that "That sounds awkward" is... probably the weakest argument to put forward.

Leland said...

From Moore's own website: "During his legal career, Judge Moore became the first full-time Deputy District Attorney in Etowah County, Alabama, and served in this position from 1977 until 1982."

So the question is, do Deputy DA's ever sign something "Me, D.A." when they are just a deputy? I'm fairly certain a Sheriff's deputy wouldn't sign something, "Sheriff", but I don't know about lawyers.

I'm mostly with Matthew Sablan on this, who signs, dates, addresses a yearbook of an intended victim? I realize criminals are dumb, but this is supposedly a criminal used to prosecuting criminals who knew what incriminating evidence looks like. I'll add to Matthew's comments; what kind of victim carries this incriminating evidence for so long against a politician and then only decides now to bring it forward?

I realize she's hard to believe now, but that's mostly because of all the previous missed opportunity and the #MeToo ism of it all.

rcocean said...

Those Republican shitheads led by Turkey McConnell are more interested in losing and maintaining their power then in holding on to the Senate.

Next week, McConnell and McCrazy will be endorsing the Democrat.

We need to vote these clowns out!

Matthew Sablan said...

“Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?”

-- I feel that's rather unfair, considering I'm giving some ways her statements could be true, and trying to defend points/correct people who are a lot more hostile to her statement.

I don't know who is telling the truth, but I'm willing to give her statements the most generous reading and ask questions that give Moore/his defenders a chance to validate or impeach her statements.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Because Christmas was Dec. 26, 1977, if my quick Google-fu is up to par.

Uhm . . .

rcocean said...

"RCOcean: When reading a statement, we have to give it the most generous reading."

WE don't have to do anything. Here's what "WE" have to do. "WE" need to stop encouraging political parties to take out their opponents with 40 year old un-provable claims of sexual harassment.

And "We" need to stop giving the Democrats weapons to destroy Republican candidates out of some dumbshit generosity or some desire to show how self-righteous we are.

rcocean said...

Steve Bannon says he's going to dig up some dirt on Turkey McConnell and I say go for it.

GOPe has shown they're only interested in rule or ruin.

I say to hell with them.

Matthew Sablan said...

HAH. Just HAH at my quick Google-fu. The 26th is the day that the calendar says Christmas was observed.

Leland said...

RCOcean; if they are life long Republicans, and one of the commenters claims he was a Democrat at the time (which is reasonable considering the Bible Belt voted block Democrat on the state and local level until Reagan); then you would think the signature would have been a gold mine much earlier.

Yancey Ward said...

And if Moore wasn't a DA at the time, that undermines the signature greatly- more on that below. The entire signature and note is a bit odd already. Sure, if he had set his sights on her, he might well have offered to sign the book, but it is still odd given what he is accused of doing later. The "Christmas 1977" is also an odd thing just by itself given that the actual date is included, too. The entire thing really does look a bad attempt to firmly secure an actual date to fix the girl's age at the time along with Moore's.

Now, about the "DA" part: this also is odd just by itself, but if he wasn't the DA, it really does make it seem like, at the very least, a recent addition to the entire note to make sure no one questions whether or not it is the same Roy Moore.

It is entirely possible the woman is telling the truth, but for me, the signature and the note, as a whole, make me less likely to believe her. If they can validate the signature and that it is 40 years old (things that can be done), then they should be required to do so.

Matthew Sablan said...

This one is provable though, or at least, Moore has the potential to disprove it. Which is why I'm all for us giving the statement a thorough reading and analysis. If he can demonstrate that, A) that signature isn't his; B) that yearbook can't exist on the date it was allegedly signed; C) he was not at the diner on the 22nd, then the accusation takes a big hit. Yes, I know that, since he's being accused, he should have the benefit of the doubt, but if he can prove any of those, that would be a coup for him.

Granted, even if he can't prove one of those things (or any other thing to defeat the accusation), that doesn't mean he DID assault her.

Leland said...

The 26th is the day that the calendar says Christmas was observed.

I clicked the link, so I say this really against them, but "Uhm..."

Mike Sylwester said...

readering at 5:27 PM

Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?

What have you yourself done to support her story?

Kevin said...

“Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?”

You might be new to this country, but here the burden is on the accuser and not the accused.

You might also find it fascinating that in trying to tear down the accuser's story her story is strengthened if the facts can withstand such scrutiny.

Matthew Sablan said...

I saw that "observed" and just mentally substituted that for "is." But, like Veterans Day, Christmas is a holiday with an actual set day, unlike a floating holiday like Thanksgiving. So, it is always Dec. 25. That just means the government and things give holidays/days off on the 26th that year. Because I'm stupid and didn't bother to think it through, because I trust the Google.

Jim at said...

Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?

Because - unlike the media and the left - we're just a tad more skeptical of stories coming out 40 years later. On a person who's been a controversial, public figure for decades. Wouldn't YOU question why all these things didn't come out before now? A reasonable person would.

I have no horse in this race. It's a Senate seat from Alabama. And it's going to be up again next cycle.

But these hyper-partisan, bullshit hit-pieces immediately right before the election have to stop.

Bob said...

Is it me or are we experiencing mass hysterias at an increasing frequency?


Lydia said...

Beverly Young Nelson shows yearbook that Roy Moore signed -- the front cover is shown and it says 1977.

Leigh said...

Tell me if this makes sense, from her and Moore's points of view (and these are all from her statement, except my own experiences working in a restaurant, in high school in 1979-1980)

Note to @Lydia and Gofather and Godfather: in her statement she said it was a two-door car and it was "an older car."

1. She's a well-developed beauty pageant contestant accustomed to passes by men; she has long red hair down to her waist!
2. Moore is flirtatious with her. And he's there sitting "in the same place, night after night."
3. She brings her yearbook to the restaurant in December and lays it on the counter (why?) and Moore asks to sign it. Signs it LOVE (her emphasis; it's meaningful to her)
4. But she has NO interest in him whatsoever! (So don't encourage him!)
5. A few weeks later, she and Moore leave the restaurant at the exact same time: 10pm, which is closing time
6. Her violent-tempered boyfriend is on his way to pick her up but he's late.
7. It's cold outside (she couldn't wait inside the restaurant where waitresses are electroluxing the carpet, re-filling condiments, rolling silverware?)
7. Moore offers her a ride home since her boyfriend is late
8. She stands up her (violent-tempered!) boyfriend to hitch a ride with Moore, though he's flirted w/her, and signed LOVE in her yearbook, and she doesn't want to encourage him. But she trusted him!
9. Moore stays ON the premises(!) and parks between the back of the restaurant and the dumpster to carry out his attack, knowing the boyfriend is on his way to get her. Worse, he parks between the back of the restaurant and the dumpster. After closing, the kitchen crew will be traipsing this path hauling garbage. What a bad spot for his nefarious attack.
10. He tries to rip off her blouse and attacks her roughly; her neck is so "bruised -- black and blue and purple" the next day (and for several days after), that she requires makeup to conceal the bruises
11. She finally escapes his car -- she'd tried to get out earlier but Moore reached over and locked the passenger-side door. Moore eventually "gives up" as she "fights him off" and "lets" her leave. (I guess he manually unlocked her door?) Physically stunned by the ordeal, she falls (or is pushed by Moore; she can't remember) to the "cold ground" outside his car. She can't believe he just left her there on the cold ground in the pitch black dark (why the shock over his bad manners, after his choke move?)
12. With the passenger door still open, while she's on the ground, Moore "burns rubber" out of the parking lot (which would clearly draw attention to himself) and drives off (passenger door presumably still swinging). Tells her, "I am the D.A. of Etowah County. You are just a child. If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you."
13. She pulls herself together and makes her way around to the front of the restaurant, and presto! The boyfriend is there to get her. She never says a thing to him. The D.A. of her county just physically assaulted her. He tried to choke her in an effort to obtain forcible oral sex and left her in the dark, on the cold ground, but she acts totally normal. Totally composed. Says nothing because her boyfriend -- who she'd almost stood up -- has such a violent temper.
14. At press conference, she displays an artist's sketch of her at Six-Flags and her yearbook picture to show how pretty she was when Moore groped & choked her (WHY? WTF?)

Sorry. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but these details don't add up. They're so bad, they make Moore's other accusers look untruthful. I'd love to CX this woman.

Jim at said...

Because they’re a bunch of Rightists and Trumpists. I’m not at all surprised.

And Dan Rather got a bad deal back in 2004, right?
Fake but accurate, right?
I mean, shit. Everybody knew those memos were the real deal.

Until they weren't.

Your stupidity is only surpassed by your partisan blindness.

Qwinn said...

It's true. Matthew Sabian is giving plausibility to her having her yearbook in December at her work in full view. I find that part alone wildly implausible. The rest is an avalanche of implausibility.

hombre said...

readering said...
'Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?'

Because many of us are lawyers who understand something of what makes accusations credible, that anyone can accuse, and that the accused is entitled to some presumptions.

Also, most of us are not Democrats who will do anything or believe anything that advances their political agenda.

n.n said...

“Why does this site attract commenters looking to tear down her story not support it?”

Neither and both. The majority of Americans are not Pro-Choice, so they respect due process for the accused, which implies a presumption of innocence.

Matthew Sablan said...

I wonder if anyone has confirmed some other comments. Did she quit the next day, like she said in her statement? Employment records might still exist that validate that. If she did, that gives us an exact date of the assault, which would be good for *both* parties, as it gives us a point of reference to look at.

Michael K said...

"Is it me or are we experiencing mass hysterias at an increasing frequency? "

Yes but only the lefties and the LLRs.

It is crucial for them to get Moore out before he can be elected. It doesn't matter if those things are true,

Get that redneck off the ballot !

Let a nice clubbable swamp creature have that seat, preferably a nice Democrat.

Sally327 said...

I miss the days when the sex scandals in politics involved hookers. Or strippers. Or getting caught having an affair. Regular grown-up misbehaving, not this pervy groping teen-age girls.

Michael K said...

"we're just a tad more skeptical of stories coming out 40 years later."

Nobody is going to accuse readering or Inga of something 40 years later.

They've never sat in a court room and watched a male teacher who was accused of sexual misbehavior by a teenaged girl.

His life was over until the jury acquitted him and probably not then. He would never be a teacher again.

I knew a pediatrician who was accused of sexual attack by a teenaged girl because he used a pinwheel, like we all use to test for anesthesia, on her leg without a nurse chaperone.

He was in a hurry on a Saturday in the hospital.

He killed himself about a year later.

steve uhr said...

The Althouse choir loves Moore precisely because while in his 60s he blatantly violated the rule of law and his oath of office, resulting in his removal twice from the Alabama Supreme Court. But now any allegation that he violated the rule of law while in his 30s is nothing but a political hit job and cannot be believed.



Unknown said...

“Locals Were Troubled by Roy Moore’s Interactions with Teen Girls at the Gadsden Mall

This past weekend, I spoke or messaged with more than a dozen people—including a major political figure in the state—who told me that they had heard, over the years, that Moore had been banned from the mall because he repeatedly badgered teen-age girls. Some say that they heard this at the time, others in the years since. These people include five members of the local legal community, two cops who worked in the town, several people who hung out at the mall in the early eighties, and a number of former mall employees. (A request for comment from the Moore campaign was not answered.) Several of them asked that I leave their names out of this piece. The stories that they say they’ve heard for years have been swirling online in the days since the Post published its report. “Sources tell me Moore was actually banned from the Gadsden Mall and the YMCA for his inappropriate behavior of soliciting sex from young girls,” the independent Alabama journalist Glynn Wilson wrote on his Web site on Sunday. (Wilson declined to divulge his sources.) Teresa Jones, a deputy district attorney for Etowah County in the early eighties, told CNN last week that “it was common knowledge that Roy dated high-school girls.” Jones told me that she couldn’t confirm the alleged mall banning, but said, “It’s a rumor I’ve heard for years.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/locals-were-troubled-by-roy-moores-interactions-with-teen-girls-at-the-gadsden-mall

Leigh said...

P.S. to @Matthew Sablan -- the location "Olde Hickory" was added by someone else with different handwriting, possibly at a later date. The specific date written before "Olde Hickory House" (12-22-1977) could also have been added later. Most servicemen I know write the date 22 Dec. 1977. Just sayin'

Matthew Sablan said...

"This past weekend, I spoke or messaged with more than a dozen people—including a major political figure in the state—who told me that they had heard, over the years, that Moore had been banned from the mall because he repeatedly badgered teen-age girls."

-- Why is this story "I was told," not "Mall management confirmed that."

Same with the YMCA. This may be true, but without confirmation, it is just a rumor.

Unknown said...

“Legat says that he saw Moore there a few times, even though his understanding then was that he had already been banned. “It started around 1979, I think,” Legat said. “I know the ban was still in place when I got there.” Legat recalled a Gadsden police officer named J. D. Thomas, now retired, who worked security at the mall. “J. D. was a fixture there, when I was working at the store,” Legat said. “He really looked after the kids there. He was a good guy. J. D. told me, ‘If you see Roy, let me know. He’s banned from the mall.’ ” Legat recalled Thomas telling him, “If you see Moore here, tell me. I’ll take care of him.’ ” Legat said that his boss, Eddie Hill, also told him to look for Moore. A phone call to Hill’s number was not returned.”

readering said...

From local news outlet:

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html

Drago said...

steve uhr: "The Althouse choir loves Moore precisely because while in his 60s he blatantly violated the rule of law and his oath of office..."

Member of the Clinton/Hollywood choir takes time out from ignoring the legions, I mean by now its literally an army of assaulters and enablers, lefties credibly accused to jump on board the very late in the process charges and coordinated charges against a republican.

And then can't figure out why we aren't listening to them.

Fix your clinton problem and maybe, just maybe, we'll give you fake russia dossier creators a listen.

Big Mike said...

The Post has raised career slaughter by innuendo to an art form.

If the GOP loses this seat, Steve Bannon will have a LOT to answer for.

Unknown said...

““These stories have been going around this town for 30 years," said Blake Usry, who grew up in the area and lives in Gadsden. "Nobody could believe they hadn't come out yet."

Usry, a traveling nurse, said he knew several of the girls that Moore tried to flirt with.

"It's not a big secret in this town about Roy Moore," he said. "That's why it's sort of frustrating to watch" the public disbelieve the women who have come forward, he said.

Five other current and former Etowah County residents also spoke to AL.com with similar accounts.

"Him liking and dating young girls was never a secret in Gadsden when we were all in high school," said Sheryl Porter. "In our neighborhoods up by Noccalula Falls we heard it all the time. Even people at the courthouse know it was a well-known secret.

Teresa Jones, who said she worked at the Etowah County District Attorney's Office with Moore, took to Twitter on Friday to say it was "common knowledge" that he pursued teenage girls.

She later told CNN that Moore often went to local high school events and other hangouts: "It was common knowledge that Roy dated high school girls, everyone we knew thought it was weird...We wondered why someone his age would hang out at high school football games and the mall."

Tony Hathcock is a photographer in Gadsden who told CBS News that he's known Corfman well for five years and believes her. They are both very conservative Republican voters, he said, and both voted for Trump. He said she had nothing to gain from speaking out, but felt safe speaking out now because her children are now adults.

He said that growing up in Gadsden, he'd heard rumors about Moore. Last week, he posted on Facebook a defense of Corfman. He said that even as a middle-schooler in Gadsden he'd heard stories from people he knew about Moore's behavior making them uncomfortable.”

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html

Drago said...

This entire story is being generated to deflect from the vast numbers of lefty donation kings/queens/enablers/law firms who assaulted women and attacked the victims for decades.

Think of it as the opening salvo of the democrats Operation Stop Talking About Us and Change The Subject Back to The Make-Believe Republican War On Women.

BTW, did you hear? Romney paid no taxes for 10 years.

We were supposed to believe that too.

Drago said...

Big Mike: "The Post has raised career slaughter by innuendo to an art form.

If the GOP loses this seat, Steve Bannon will have a LOT to answer for"

The Post and its GOPe allies have raised career slaughter by innuendo to an art form. If the GOP loses this seat, the GOPe will have a LOT to answer for.

Matthew Sablan said...

I'm pretty sure everything Legat said is, at best, hearsay. So, useful for us to make a decision, but legally useless. A real lawyer can correct me.

Drago said...

BTW, did you hear, Tom Delay broke the law and Ted Stevens is a criminal!

We were supposed to believe that as well.

You'd think more people would be aware of this now well-worn lefty/LLR tactic.

narciso said...

There's another interesting fillip to the Stevens kerflyffle. The lead witness William Allen turns out to be a rather unreliable witness but his FBI handler was say conflicted.

hombre said...

How does an Assistant DA get banned from a mall? How does an Asst DA get banned from a mall without consequences? Who bans an Asst DA from the mall?

As long as the Dems have money, we can expect more accusers. As long as there are more accusers we can expect the GOPe to be have like Democrats.

The swamp dies hard.

Michael K said...

"It's not a big secret in this town about Roy Moore," he said. "That's why it's sort of frustrating to watch" the public disbelieve the women who have come forward, he said.

Please explain why this never came out until the period after the GOP could not replace him on the ballot.

You are full of shit, Inga.

No matter whether any of this turns out to be true. My BS meter pegs when Allred shows up.

gramps said...

Gloria Allred is another way to say bull shit...

Gospace said...

Something pointed earlier- the yearbook is dated 1977- so it's the yearbook from the year BEFORE. And she's 16 when he signs it. It may be her yearbook, but it's not her yearbook because if she's 16 in December 1977, she's not a HS graduate yet. She won't have an individual picture in, but will be in a group picture with her class. I don't know about you, but I bought one yearbook in HS- my yearbook for the year I graduated. My wife has one HS yearbook- for the year she graduated. Each of my 5 children have one HS yearbook, for the year they graduated. Each of received the yearbook in May or Junes just a few weeks before graduation. That way spring sports and awards could be included, and everyone could go around signing them in the last week of school.

He addresses the salutation generically- he doesn't use her name. Doesn't sound like a regular customer to me; a regular customer would know her name. Oddity. She has a yearbook at work for a previous graduating class. Oddity. The entire story is odd. As in nothing about it makes sense. December 22 in 1977 was a Thursday, and I'll bet every school in the United States was already on Christmas Break. So she didn't carry the book from school. She brought it work. For him to sign.

Jason said...

If these accusations are true, then this guy was a real bastard back when he was a Democrat. Weird how this stuff never got out back then.

gspencer said...

"but he reached over and locked it [the door] so I could not get out"

In them olden days of the 1970s car had a pull out "button" (really a vertical shaft that you pulled out to unlock a door. Unlike today's cars where the driver can control the locking of all doors with an override.

In other words, I don't believe her. All she would have had to do is lift the "button" and the door handle would operate.

iowan2 said...

This is way out there. Maybe absurd on its face. Let the law correct whats in its purview. The law sides with Moore. He is innocent of the accusations. Also the law requires Moore stays on the ballot. The law is crafted for exactly this situation. Un-provable accusations, close to the date of voting. This is a political, not legal problem. I hope the people turn out in droves to vote for Moore.

Grant said...

Re: Gospace’s comment: I was a high school student in Alabama in the 1970’s, when it was not uncommon for every student to have an individual photo in the yearbook every year. It would have been completely unsurprising for her to have a yearbook from a year when she wasn’t a senior. Our yearbook was also delivered in early May so it could be signed before the school year was over, but even so, it doesn’t surprise me that she would be carrying it around the following December.

Lydia said...

All she would have had to do is lift the "button" and the door handle would operate.

Did you read her statement? She was struggling with the guy -- he had his hands on her breasts, he was squeezing her neck trying to force her head down, and he was trying to pull her shirt off. Pretty hard to simply lift up that lock button during all that.

narciso said...

Yes that's what alreds script read like, its as telegraphed as the fusion dossier.

Michael K said...

Th Democrats, with the help of the GOPe, will win this seat and further obstruct Trump's agenda.

The result will be one that Robespierre would have approved.

It will bring the Revolution closer.

AReasonableMan said...

Uh Oh.

REVEALED: Donald Trump Jr was secretly corresponding with Wikileaks in the lead-up to the presidential election as his private exchanges are laid bare

Howard said...

Doc Mikes revolutionaries: Obese welfare couch potatoes high on oxy watching Fox News... the Elites are quacking in their suede testosterone boots

Howard said...

See what happens when you drag a lollypop through a daycare

narciso said...

Shixki fly ritmo misses the boat, the anchor and the sandbar. In other news bolsanero seems to moving closer to challenging Lula who by all rights should be in jail.

Gospace said...

Leigh said...
P.S. to @Matthew Sablan -- the location "Olde Hickory" was added by someone else with different handwriting, possibly at a later date. The specific date written before "Olde Hickory House" (12-22-1977) could also have been added later. Most servicemen I know write the date 22 Dec. 1977. Just sayin'


You're right. Not sure what significance it has. But the 7's in the 12-22-77 are different than the 7's in the 1977. Meaning it was added later. How much later? Last week when they needed evidence? Or right after because his signing it meant so much to her? I'll go with last week. Maybe even yesterday. Again, tit brings up another question with no sensible answer. Why write "Olde Hickory House" over a photo of a place that isn't "Olde Hickory House"? Since it's obvious with even a quick comparison that there's two different writings, the way the date was written is unimportant. I still use dd-mmm-yyyy and I've been out of the military since 1994.

narciso said...

Shockingly, one tube yearbook may be the only true thing is this affair.

Boxty said...

This YouTuber does a lot of videos on body language and says the accuser is lying:
https://youtu.be/kRRGbLVIW84

She says it was typical back in the day for politicians or other adults in small towns to sign kids yearbooks.

David Baker said...

Salient analysis of Roy Moore's handwriting (as displayed on Drudge) - specifically taken from a yearbook notation to the supposed victim, dated 12-22-1977:

Absolutely no indication of potential or active aberrant behavior found in the above specimen. In fact, Moore's writing shows quite the opposite of a sexual deviant, with evidence of strong emotional stability, spirituality, and predictability. Also, no indication of dishonesty or deception. In short; not a rape candidate, not even close.

Earnest Prole said...

The partisan tribalism here is worthy of Gloria Steinem circa 1998.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

I was on the yearbook staff my junior and senior years in high school (1980 & 1981) and I can 100% state that you try and time the yearbook so that it comes out as close to the end of the school year as possible. Trying to put the year book out mid-year means that you end up having to include the previous year's baseball and softball teams since the current year's baseball and softball teams haven't been picked at mid-year, much less begun their respective seasons. (Golf and tennis teams, too. If your school is hoity toity enough to have them.) Also, you miss any performances the drama club might put on and any recitals the band and/or chorus puts on because they're targeted for the spring due to the need for rehearsal. And you miss any chance to put in any pictures from that year's prom.

I can't say this is 100% certain, but if Moore signed her high school yearbook in December it was most likely the previous year's yearbook.

PB said...

14 year old girls. Where are there parents?

David Baker said...

"P.S. to @Matthew Sablan -- the location "Olde Hickory" was added by someone else with different handwriting..."

How do you know it's someone else's handwriting?

Unknown said...

ARM,

It’s a constant drip, drip drip, plop, plop, plop, plop....until the dam breaks and it will.

Unknown said...

“Absolutely no indication of potential or active aberrant behavior found in the above specimen. In fact, Moore's writing shows quite the opposite of a sexual deviant, with evidence of strong emotional stability, spirituality, and predictability. Also, no indication of dishonesty or deception. In short; not a rape candidate, not even close.”

Hahahaha! That’s it, he’s innocent!

Unknown said...

Looks like the rats are jumping ship.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/360205-cruz-pulls-support-from-roy-moore-allegations-merit-criminal-prosecution-if

“Sen. Ted Cruz on Monday withdrew his support from Alabama GOP Senate nominee Roy Moore, saying allegations of sexual misconduct should be looked at by prosecutors.

“As it stands, I can’t urge the people of Alabama to support a campaign in the face of these charges without serious, persuasive demonstration that the charges are not true,” the Texas Republican told reporters, according to a Texas Tribune reporter.

“Both last week and this week, there are serious charges of criminal conduct that if true, not only make him unfit to serve in the Senate but merit criminal prosecution,” he added.”

anti-de Sitter space said...

"“Absolutely no indication of potential or active aberrant behavior found in the above specimen. In fact, Moore's writing shows quite the opposite of a sexual deviant, with evidence of strong emotional stability, spirituality, and predictability. Also, no indication of dishonesty or deception. In short; not a rape candidate, not even close.”

Hahahaha! That’s it, he’s innocent!"

Not to mention that wasn't he the lone vote to excuse the rapist of a 4 yo because (according to him) it couldn't be shown that the 4 yo was forced into getting F-ed?

[Because there was no evidence in this case of an implied threat of serious physical injury…or of an implied threat of death, Higdon cannot be convicted of sodomy in the first]degree “by forcible compulsion.”

You cons really know how ta pick em'.




https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/roy-moore-cast-the-sole-vote-in-favor-of-a-man-who-raped-a-four-year-old/

anti-de Sitter space said...

The only good thing to come from this is that y'all are getting rid of shitty coffee makers.

anti-de Sitter space said...

lemonade outa lemons.

Michael K said...

"Doc Mikes revolutionaries: Obese welfare couch potatoes high on oxy watching Fox News... the Elites are quacking in their suede testosterone boots"

Howard has no idea how amusing he is. There are 300 million guns in thos country and he is a memeber of a group that cannot even describe an "assault weapon."

Good luck Howard.

Mean while, the frenzy goes on.

Pundits and talking heads without evidence echoed each other with ever more preposterous charges. Voting machines supposedly had been rigged by a monstrous man who later had stooped to remove the Martin Luther King bust from the West Wing. We were also told that all good souls of the Electoral College clearly should have vitiated their constitutional duties and denied Trump the presidency.

We were lectured at the height of the collusion frenzy that Trump would be 1) impeached, 2) removed by the emoluments clause, 3) forced to resign under the 25th Amendment, or 4) simply quit in shame.

If not, how many ways could (or should) one kill Trump? Hanging? Decapitation? Dismemberment? Combustion? Shooting? Stabbing? Jet crash? As the madness grew, no obscenity from Stephen Colbert or physical threat from Robert DeNiro or Johnny Depp or Kathy Griffin or even Snoop Dogg seemed to suffice to express hatred of Trump.


Now, we have a candidate for the Senate who is discovered, four weeks before the election and after the deadline to remove him from the ballot, that may be he dated 16 year old girls.

The ick factor is heavy but why the rush? Why not find out after the election ?

anti-de Sitter space said...

BTW, at what point can Lynyrd S sue Moore?

Seems like we're past that point.

Sessions seems to be in jeopardy, too.


Just sayin'

David Baker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rabel said...

Roy's gotta go. Take one for the team. Know when to fold 'em.

That said, here's my version:

The teen tart waitress had been mutually flirting with Roy for months. He finally talked her into the car for a make-out session behind the restaurant. She was giving him a hand-job and he decided he wanted a blow-job, but she wasn't that kind of girl. Hilarity ensued.

How do I know this? In her story the aged tart says that he tried to force her head down into his crotch. So, when did his dick get loose? I don't think he would have made the effort just to rub her face in his khakis. That's right, it got loose for the hand-job.

I base my analysis primarily on my personal perception of the propriety of blow-jobs by Southern girls in the seventies. This woman probably still hasn't sucked a dick.

Just go away, Roy. You ain't worth the effort.

steve uhr said...

Michael K -- do you seriously not know the difference between dating and assaulting? You don't have to believe them but you shouldn't misstate what they allege unless you are basically a dishonest person.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"Howard has no idea how amusing he is. There are 300 million guns in thos country and he is a memeber of a group that cannot even describe an "assault weapon."

Good luck Howard."

Even being an individual owner is a different shade of unjustified peace.

Unless you got mercs and means, you're toast.

David Baker said...

"But the 7's in the 12-22-77 are different than the 7's in the 1977.'

Disagree. Look closely, they're virtually identical. Pay particular attention to the identical angles, height, and depth (thickness) of the writing.

All the writing contained in the yearbook specimen was executed by the same person/writer.

D.B., Certified Graphoanalyst

Gospace said...

David Baker said...
"But the 7's in the 12-22-77 are different than the 7's in the 1977.'

Disagree. Look closely, they're virtually identical. Pay particular attention to the identical angles, height, and depth (thickness) of the writing.

All the writing contained in the yearbook specimen was executed by the same person/writer.

D.B., Certified Graphoanalyst


I'm looking carefully at the 7's, since they're the reappearing numbers. The top line of the 7's. On the left side, a significant drop down line in 12-22-77 7s. That drop down is missing in the 1977 7s. Both sets of numbers are written by a right hander. The second set, the 12-22-77 isn't slanted as far as the first set. "Olde Hickory House" is printed, not written. So a direct letter comparison can't be done. But the letter slant lines up with the 12-22-77 number slant.
I'm using the picture on the UK Daily Mail. Like you, I don't have the original to work with.

I assume your certification as a Graphoanalyst came from a blue light special.

Unknown said...

Roy Moore has admitted that inscription in the yearbook is his handwriting. But go right ahead and keep debating the shape of the 7s. LOL.

Mac McConnell said...

The people of Alabama will decide Moore's political future. That said it's obviously true that if these allegations are true it means Moore is a piker as compared to Bill Clinton. At least Clinton is smart enough to pull his dick out before the rape begins.

David said...

He wanted to rape her so he pulled into the parking lot where she worked?

anti-de Sitter space said...

Good Lovin's Hard To Find
One Thing
Can't Take That Away
Best Things In Life
The Last Rebel
Outta Hell In My Dodge
Kiss Your Freedom Goodbye
South Of Heaven
Love Don't Always Come Easy

oleh said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
oleh said...

A deputy DA says he's "a" DA. He doesn't say he's a "deputy" because that's for lowly SO deputies. He doesn't say he's a DDA, because no one knows what that is.


The elected DA says she's "the" DA. A chief DA will day he's a chief DA because the title matters to him. The Assistant DA will day he's the ADA because he's focused on becoming the DA.

David Baker said...

Gospace,

The variation you see in the comparative 7's is statistically insignificant. Look instead for the comparative similarities, which in this case far outweigh the differences - which are minor, and typical.

In fact, it's more unusual to find exact replicas of one's handwriting, which usually indicates a forgery (or mechanical auto-pen). For example, I challenge you to write your own, everyday signature the exact same way twice. It's impossible.

"So a direct letter comparison can't be done."

It can be done, and is done successfully all time. The only difference here is in the style (print vs. cursive), not the basic stroke structure.





Mac McConnell said...

What the fuck is a guy with political ambitions hanging out at the mall and attending local high school games for? I bet this prev talked to his neighbors and people at the local groceries store too. I wonder if he attended the local Baptist cult on Sundays?

We should ask Lisa Bloom's mom.

Leigh said...

Interesting twitter thread by Thomas Wictor on the topic here:

https://tttthreads.com/thread/930229004765822976

The Godfather said...

I have no affection for Moore. If I lived in Alabama, I would have voted against him in the primary. There are/were legitimate arguments regarding display of the 10 Commandments and regarding gay marriage, but a judge is supposed to obey the orders of the higher courts. Furthermore, if I had known at the time of the primary that Moore was in the habit of dating teen-age girls (albeit above the age of consent) when he was in his '30's, that's an additional reason that I would have voted against him (I wouldn't have supported Jerry Steinfeld either).

That said, if I were an Alabama voter now, with a choice between voting for a Democrat whose character is unimpeached or Moore, I don't know why I should vote for a candidate who will support policies I disagree with, just because I have been told that Moore did things I disapprove of in his personal life 30-40 years ago. If serious charges against Moore can be proved, he could and should be removed from office.

PS: My gut tells me that this most recent story is BS, but I don't know. And neither do the voters of Alabama.

HT said...

"Please explain why this never came out until the period after the GOP could not replace him on the ballot."

State offices and national offices have two totally different levels of scrutiny.

"And neither do the voters of Alabama." Except for a few in Gadsden.

Mac McConnell said...

If I was an Alabama voter I'd vote for Moore for pure political reasons. The balance in the Senate is too important not to at this point. Let the Alabama Governor decide if the Senate rejects Moore.

Jonathan Graehl said...

Regardless of the truth value of this lurid tale, vote Moore or you condone 11th hour F-you Republican smears.

Pre-primary or not at all should be the rule.

Otherwise we all have to endure routine false allegations as in almost every child custody = $$$ divorce lawsuit.

Steven Wilson said...

Short version of the The Godfather.

The democrats have been ruthless in supporting the deviants within their party from the time of Chappaquiddick. For a long time the Republicans fell on their swords when indiscretions popped up. Now that the stakes are so high, I am prepared to be ruthless. Let Moore win, let the Republicans refuse to seat him and let the governor of Alabama appoint another interim senator.

The stakes are too high to be morally squeamish at this point. It may be too late, but the contingent in control of the democrat party would drive this country over a cliff given the opportunity and they would tell us they were doing it for our own good. And they might believe it.



HT said...

A beauty, a doll
Caleb get the Uhaul, said the cowboy of Gadsden Mall.

Holstering his tiny tiny pistol

anti-de Sitter space said...

"....and they would tell us they were doing it for our own good. And they might believe it."

An interesting way to end after jabbering about the justification re electing a child molester to the US Senate.

anti-de Sitter space said...

In prison murders and the scum of the earth live by a code such that they butt F child molesters.

Some in the R party justify electing a child molesters to the US Senate.


Carry on.

anti-de Sitter space said...

Rapists cons in prison draw a line re child molesters, but not many cons re the election of a US Senator.

Mac McConnell said...

You are politically naive, at this point Moore will never see the inside of the US Senate. Moore is just a proxy for what ever Republican the Governor appoints.

anti-de Sitter space said...

Mac Mc,

If he'd child molested a girl in your family, would you still vote for him to be a US Senator?

anti-de Sitter space said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUXz4wFDAo0

anti-de Sitter space said...

"I was terrified. He was also trying to pull my shirt off. I thought that he was going to rape me. I was twisting and struggling and begging him to stop. I had tears running down my face. At some point he gave up. He then looked at me and said, ‘You are a child. I am the District Attorney of Etowah County. If you tell anyone about this, no one will believe you.'..."

Mac McConnell said...

anti-de Sitter space
No girl in my family would get into a 30 year old's car. We don't raise idiots. I discussed this with my five sisters and two nieces tonight, ages 35 to 73. They called it BS.

I don't personally care if Moore is guilty or not. But, explain to me why Alabama who voted for Trump with 62+% of the vote should elect a Democrat to the US Senate.

Etienne said...

I don't really care if the story is true or not.

There are other, more important disqualifications for him ever going to Washington to participate in the federal government, let alone state or city government.

People like him should be run over by a truck when they are still in their 20's.

cubanbob said...

“Both last week and this week, there are serious charges of criminal conduct that if true, not only make him unfit to serve in the Senate but merit criminal prosecution,” he added.”

Funny how that standard was never applied to Ted Kennedy, Chris Dodd or Robert Menendez.

Big Mike said...

@Drago, candidate vetting is part of the basic blocking and tackling of politics. Moore is Bannon’s candidate, whom he pushed in opposition to the candidate backed by McConnell and Trump. Now Moore is starting to look like another Sharon Angle or Todd Akin or Richard Mourdock or Christine O’Donnell, except worse on some ways. It certainly isn’t Mitch McConnell’s fault that a terrible candidate is running to replace Jeff Sessions.

@rcocean, if Bannon is going to dig up dirt on anyone he’d best be digging it up on Jones.

Guys, politics ain’t beanbag. If you’re going to push a bad candidate then expect to lose the seat. There’s a lot not to like about the GOPe, but Moore is not their fault.

AReasonableMan said...

Big Mike said...
Guys, politics ain’t beanbag. If you’re going to push a bad candidate then expect to lose the seat.


They are not going to lose the seat.

Big Mike said...

For a change I hope you’re right. I trust you will agree with me that Steve Bannon is an asshole who’s nowhere as knowledgeable about politics as he thinks he is?

David Baker said...

For those interested, I'll explain in part how the process of handwriting analysis works - as Roy Moore's yearbook inscription offers an excellent example:

First; Questions To Ask Regarding Appearance:

Is the writing neat and organized? Does it have a rhythmic, eye-pleasing appearance? Are the baselines consistent, or confused and irregular? Are there signs of disturbance in the way of ill-formed letters, words, or sentences? Is the writing legible? Is there adequate spacing between the letters? Is the writing intended for others, or is it essentially private (in most cases, we may exclude notes to ourselves, doodles and the like when applying this critical criteria).

Now, notice the smoothness of Moore's writing, this in spite of the spontaneous nature of the inscription. The writing is neat, consistent, and legible. With minor exceptions, the letters are well formed, and the spacing is nearly ideal (in handwriting, spacing is a first indicator when evaluating emotional health).

Now, as a layperson, how does the appearance of Moore's writing strike you? Do you see anything disturbing - such as radically changing baselines (words with letters above and/or below the writing line). Does the writing appear natural, as opposed to stressed or forced?

It's impossible to execute a writing sample like Moore's on the fly. Or to offer it up as a disguise to deceive others. Or to anticipate a handwriting expert. It's also next to impossible to betray one's own character short of taking potent drugs or experiencing severe head trauma.

Although handwriting analysts cannot predict precise behavior at a particular time, we can assign probabilities. And in Roy Moore's case, the probability of deviant behavior is virtually nil. In fact, deviant behavior would represent such a departure from character, it would be the first example, ever.

To Summarize: Look at the appearance of the writing as the beginning measure of character and personality. Look for consistent baselines, legibility, and attention to details - such as T-crossings and "i" dots (rounded, not "jabbed"). Check for consistent depth (width). Overall, if it's pleasing to the eye, the writer will be pleasing to others.

Finally, weigh the handwriting evidence against the writer's known personal history. Excluding recent accusations, is there anything disturbing or especially unusual in Moore's past? Has he, like the others (ie Weinstein & Co.) left a deviant trail? Then factor in Moore's various professional positions, important community positions of responsibility. In short, consider the known, not the conspiracies.

AllenS said...

I want everyone to remember, Trump didn't back Moore, but his adversary Luther Strange. Trump is all wise. A man before his time so to speak.

Jason said...

EVERYBODY SHUT UP UNTIL WE HEAR FROM A GYPSY FORTUNE TELLER

AReasonableMan said...

Big Mike said...
I trust you will agree with me that Steve Bannon is an asshole who’s nowhere as knowledgeable about politics as he thinks he is?


I agree with half of this.

Big Mike said...

@ARM, I think both assertions are self-evident.

Leigh said...

@GoSpace and @DavidBaker --

Check out @ThomasWictor feed on Twitter. He has an enlarged color picture of the the entire inscription, signature, dates, etc. in the yearbook.

The inscription and the "Love, Roy" are written in one color of ink. The "Moore, DA" and "Olde Hickory ...." are added in different ink, written by a different person.

And remember -- once the restaurant closes, waitresses stay to refill condiments, eletrolux the carpet, etc. The kitchen staff starts cleaning up. The backdoor to the dumpster is propped open and trash is hauled out. It's a busy place betweeen the back of the restaurant and the dumpster after closing. http://blog.zenput.com/5-things-to-check-before-closing-a-restaurant

There's no way Moore would park there to carry out his attack. Nor would he park anywhere else on the premises, knowing her boyfriend was on his way.

This is a farce and everyone is falling all over themselves to believe it and crucify him, before giving it the slightest scrutiny. That's tragic.

She brought her yearbook from the last school year up to the restaurant for Moore to sign. She probably had a crush on him (why bring it up there for him to sign, and encourage him, if he'd been flirtatious and she had NO interest?). And sign it he did -- leaving a bland "Roses are red, violets are blue" type inscription common to that time period for a man his age. He signed it "Love, Roy."

What happened after that, and who inserted his last name, with "DA" and the location "Olde Hickory House" with a second, more specific the date (in a way servicemen don't date things) -- in DIFFERENT INK and handwriting -- is anyone's guess. But it didn't happen the way she claims. No way.

David Baker said...

Leigh said..."The inscription and the "Love, Roy" are written in one color of ink. The "Moore, DA" and "Olde Hickory ...." are added in different ink, written by a different person."

Wrong.

Here are examples of Roy Moore’s signature on official documents. Note that these various Roy Moore signatures match the signature seen in the yearbook.

It's ludicrous to claim someone other than Roy Moore signed "Moore," or added anything to the yearbook inscription.

Clyde said...

Of course, it would have been ludicrous to suggest that trusted member of the media Dan Rather would knowingly accept forged documents about George W. Bush's TANG service, but that's what happened.

It comes down to this: Either Judge Moore is lying or else his accusers have been put up to lying. I wouldn't put it past the Democrats (or the GOPe, unfortunately) to get an expert to create forged evidence. Yes, the signature in the yearbook matches Moore's. The question is, does the handwriting of the whole inscription match samples of his handwriting that could be verified from recorded documents?

The other question to ask is whether the people who have made the claims about Judge Moore have benefited financially from them.

Skippy Tisdale said...

The Godfather said...
Like hombre above, I don't think doors of cars circa 1977 could be locked by the driver so the passenger couldn't get out. Does anyone remember differently?


I do. I was in high school in the 1970's (class of '75 - GO CENTAURS!). I used to hitchhike around town. Lots of us did. I was picked up by a guy in a Cadillac and he was ably to lock my door from the driver's side. Freaked me out, which is why I've always remembered that. A DA could afford a car like that. I'm not saying it has any impact on the veracity of her claims, but I am certain that at least some cars back then had that feature.

Michael K said...

Some in the R party justify electing a child molesters to the US Senate.

Democrats, on the other hand, have no problem with murderers like Ted Kennedy.

Gabriel said...

@Skippy Tisdale: A DA could afford a car like that

He wasn't a DA, and never became a DA.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Plot twist ... Could the boy friend have been the choker bruiser and Roy is the White Knight ?

David Baker said...

"The question is, does the handwriting of the whole inscription match samples of his handwriting that could be verified from recorded documents?"

Yes.

Gospace said...

https://i.redd.it/sky87hi4byxz.jpg

Color photo and B+W photo of the inscription.

Big Mike said...

Getting back to Steve Bannon, if Roy Moore was barred from a mall, this should have been picked up by proper candidate vetting. If that never happened, then the GOP needs to run a big ad in the entire state pointed out the lies. If the signature is in two different inks, then that suggests a hoax and a clumsy hoax at that, David Baker's assurances notwithstanding. Again, needs a big ad buy to get the truth out.

And if some -- or even all -- of the other allegations turn out to be true, the fact that this allegation is false will get Moore elected.

OregonGuy said...

As I recall, if you pulled the inside door handle on a car, and pushed the lock button down, the door was locked until you pulled the lock button up. All you had to do was unscrew the lock button, and you couldn't open that door.

Anyone else remember this?
.

Jason said...

Hey,David!

So who’s “Ray,” and why is it that everything up to “Ray” in the yearbook inscription is in black ink... the person signed his first name, but M “Moore” and everything afterwards is in blue ink?

And why was the first publicized image black and white? Gloria Allred was hoping no one would notice?

narciso said...

Ray acton was the deputy district fatty in the next county over

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