The source told us, “In one group therapy session, Harvey arrived 15 minutes late. Then, when it was his turn to speak, he launched into a speech about how this is all a conspiracy against him.”...Much of what people are accusing him of is criminal. How is he supposed to participate in group therapy if frank, sincere discussion would entail confessing to crimes? Both sources seem to be revealing that Weinstein is doing something I would regard as taking it seriously: being defensive against criminal liability. I'm sure that defensiveness is annoying to everyone else, especially if they think he's lying. But that doesn't make him unserious. It just makes him serious within a frame of reference that isn't how to stop being addicted to sex.
Another source close to Weinstein says... “He insists he never raped or assaulted anyone, and that all the encounters were consensual. He realizes he has acted like an a–hole, but he still insists he’s not a rapist...."
I haven't looked deeply into the evidence question, but I think generally the patient has a privilege to prevent other members of a therapy group from testifying, but the particulars are going to vary from place to place. You lawyers who are reading this: What would you say to someone in Weinstein's position who's trying to rehabilitate his business reputation by appearing to take his "sex addition" problem seriously, but who will be talking about things that could be used against him in a criminal (or civil) case?
And who are these people leaking information about what went on in group therapy? How can anyone feel secure about opening up in these sessions? I note that the Page Six article quotes the second source as saying that Weinstein doesn't do group sessions anymore — "for obvious reasons." If it's so obvious, why did he ever do them?
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89 comments:
He's not a sex addict, he's a dick.
He's a powerful bully and a twisted a-hole. No cure for that.
Weinstein has Bill Clinton disease. or does Clinton have Harvey Weinstien disease?
Harvey is not "in" sex addition rehab.
He is simply hanging out there (and staying at hotels at night) while his MSM/Dem/Lefty/LLR pals figure out their next move.
Of course, Harvey doesn't realize there is no "next move" for him or his pals. He is the sacrifice meant to atone for all of Hollywoods guilt after which the lefties and LLR talking point pals will launch Operation "Move On.Org" to focus on the real criminals...(and you know who that is....)
I'm an attorney. I would recommend that he discuss these issues only with a medical professional under the doctor-patient privilege and not engage in "group therapy" sessions. No reason to be discussing anything with random people.
Dickin' got their first, but I have seen little evidence he is a sex addict.
"Addiction" again serves the purpose of covering up moral failure.
I suspect he's still just deluded enough to think this is all no big deal and it'll just blow over. He probably believes that after some public acts of contrition (rehab) and a little time, he can safely resume his elite lifestyle of bullying and preying on starlets. After all, he got away with it for decades, why would he assume he wouldn't continue to get away with it?
My first advice would have been to go to a clinic in France.
"I'm an attorney. I would recommend that he discuss these issues only with a medical professional under the doctor-patient privilege and not engage in "group therapy" sessions. No reason to be discussing anything with random people."
Its pretty clear Harvey isn't talking to anyone at the rehab joint about anything, other than get me a sandwich and a tonic.....with gin.
If he were Catholic I would suggest :
- Making the pilgrimage to Compostela, on foot, in winter, flogging himself all the while.
- Joining a contemplative religious order.
- Crawl up the Cathedral steps on his knees daily, reciting the rosary.
- Join Opus Dei
Something like this should serve a bit to reprogram the mind.
I don't know what Jews would do along these lines.
... lawyers who are reading this: What would you say to someone in Weinstein's position who's trying to rehabilitate his business reputation by appearing to take his "sex addition" problem seriously, but who will be talking about things that could be used against him in a criminal (or civil) case? ...
“Fuck you.”
Fuck you Harvey if all you care about is your reputation.
“If you care about the truth, damn the torpedoes of shame, fall on your own goddamn sword, tell the truth.”
“If you don’t like this advice, go down the goddamn road of the yellow pages and find an attorney to charge you $200,000 to rehabilitate your reputation, and who will charge you again and again and make money off of your unrehabilitated state ... you and Anthony Weiner ... have the praise of men, you have your reward in full, now get the fuck out of my office.”
Oso Negro: "My first advice would have been to go to a clinic in France.:"
Nope.
He should head to Macedonia, visit Alexander's fathers tomb, hang out, drink wine, and not worry extradition.
I have trouble accepting the idea that he is an "addict." He's a serial rapist and exhibitionist. It's more about exerting power and humiliating his victims than satisfying a sexual urge.
There's probably no such thing as an opium addict. There is certainly no such thing as a sex addict. But you can earn get out of jail free cards if you plead you are one. If you do that you have to wear the suit and do the dance, and that leaves you open to criticism for the fit of the suit or the clumsiness of the dance.
Harvey should publicly issue an appeal that everyone pray for him; no danger, since prayer has never been shown to change anything, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian.
since prayer has never been shown to change anything
In your case, no. Once an asshole always an asshole.
jimbino: "Harvey should publicly issue an appeal that everyone pray for him; no danger, since prayer has never been shown to change anything, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian."
Sounds like you are working hard to convince yourself.
Good luck with that.
I remember one time that I prayed in hopes that the atheists wouldn't fill up a bunch of mass graves.
But those prayers went unanswered.
As a lawyer, no way in hell I let my client participate in group therapy sessions right now, if he's as well-known and in the news as Harvey Weinstein. It is an absolute guarantee that every word he says will get out to the public.
At this point, the only appropriate concern that any competent criminal defense lawyer will recognize is keeping the client out of jail. Reputation repair is for later, after you've kept him out of jail, or at least negotiated a short and reasonably comfortable jail term.
I've only been a prosecutor, never a criminal defense lawyer, but it's a very basic precept, and a complete no-brainer. Frankly, I would consider it malpractice if his criminal defense lawyer didn't do everything he could to convince Harvey Weinstein, at this moment in time, to NOT say a word in any "group therapy" session.
You know, it may very well be a conspiracy against him.
If Hollywood throws out enough guilty dead bodies, perhaps they can fend off a true investigation and inspection of what is really going on.
...since prayer has never been shown to change anything, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian.
shown to whom?
Rush says it won't work becausee he's a bully and a predator not a sex addict.
I suppose that means bully rehab.
Hey Laslo, I just can NOT believe that pony-tail girl doesn't have ANYTHING to say on the subject of Harvey! Did I miss it?
Sex addict. Can anyone say that with a straight face?
Advice and Consent.
" prayer has never been shown to change anything, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian."
Prayer is meant to program your own mind, if you want to consider it a purely secular activity. Repetition makes a habit. It wears a mental groove as it were.
My only surprise here is the vast sums of money used to keep the Hollywood juggernaut rolling. Why does story-telling merit such vast sums of money?
The thing is to give Weinstein something to do.
What position would Weinstein best fit in in Trump's cabinet.
Probably secretary of agriculture.
jimbino said...
Harvey should publicly issue an appeal that everyone pray for him; no danger, since prayer has never been shown to change anything, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian.
10/20/17, 3:21 PM
Science denier! Also This. There are more, just google (or duckduckgo)...
Page 6 is a gossip rag that's famous for running nudie pics for public enjoyment. A huge part of this Harvey Weinstein stuff is titillation and excitement at the secret sex and violence life of celebrities. Not surprising that Page 6 is all over Harvey Weinstein. But it is a sign that a huge chunk of this stuff is entertaining to people, and that's why we are reading about it. Vicarious thrills for the bored and jaded.
He is not taking it seriously because it is bullshit.
I imagine he has a team of lawyers to advise him during his stay in rehab. The first thing out of their collective mouths should have been to admit nothing unless it's in the privacy of his doctor's office.
He's gotten away with this for decades. It takes a lot to change deeply entrenched behavior. I don't think he can.
Do they have a clinic for men addicted to sexual assault?
How can any person in the public eye ever really do group therapy?
I am not a lawyer, but I know one thing, never talk to the police without a lawyer. Oh, and don't admit to random strangers who are undergoing therapy for "sex addiction" that I committed criminal acts.
I guess that's two things.
'who's trying to rehabilitate his business reputation by appearing to take his "sex addition" problem seriously' How seriously can he take it when normal people understand that sex addiction is the norm of male humanity. His problem isn't sex addiction, it's abusive behavior. Hire all the hookers you want, and treat them nicely.
Anthony Wiener was in the same boat.
I would recommend that he discuss these issues only with a medical professional under the doctor-patient privilege and not engage in "group therapy" sessions.
Group therapy that is led by a medical professional is still under the privilege. Why would it not be? You're there for therapeutic treatment and it's supposed to be confidential.
Note that the alleged source refused to identify himself or herself for the article. That usually means one of three things.
1) The newspaper is making it up.
2) The source is making it up.
3) The source is telling the truth but would get in trouble if identified.
If we go with #3, then the reason the source wants to be anonymous is because what he's doing could get him in trouble. What sort of trouble? Unwanted publicity, or kicked out of group, or maybe even sued by Weinstein's attorneys. Note too that the article doesn't even name the treatment center, let alone the doctor or any members of the group. Which circles back around to…
1) The newspaper is making it up.
2) The source is making it up.
3) The source is telling the truth but would get in trouble if identified.
I'm inclined to believe #1 or #2. If it's #3, the reporters are keeping the source, the medical facility, the doctor, and all the patients unidentified because of concerns of breach of privacy and legal liability. So, yes, there's an expectation of privacy in group.
"How can any person in the public eye ever really do group therapy?"
He can talk to a priest. Confessions won't be revealed.
Maybe a Rabbi also, I don't know how the rules work there.
"He's not a sex addict, he's a dick. He's a powerful bully and a twisted a-hole. No cure for that."
You seem to be implying:
1. There is a real thing that deserves the special label "sex addiction."
2. There is a cure for this thing, "sex addiction."
Everyone's dick to some extent. There's no analysis in just throwing that as an insult against Weinstein. For one thing, he deserves worse.
No such thing as sex addiction. At least that's what I think. Opium addiction, however, is very real.
I don't know what Jews would do along these lines.
Kvetch relentlessly?
prayer has never been shown to change anything
It has changed me.
What position would Weinstein best fit in in Trump's cabinet.
Probably secretary of agriculture.
Animal husbandry?
I don't know what Jews would do along these lines.
Pay retail.
Are there any potted plants at Harvey's Rehab? That might trigger him, you never know.
So if Trump is just as bad, when do we ban the song "Kiss the Girl." Read the lyrics, what was Disney thinking?
Does doctor-patient privilege extend to the other members of the therapy group ?
I'm just guessing Harvey's lawyers told him to keep his trap shut.
"There is a real thing that deserves the special label "sex addiction."
Well, you can be addicted to anything. Chocolates, Food, Sex, Alcohol, etc.
Usually, addictions are physically harmful and/or easily obtained and/or result in physical dependency.
Sex usually requires a lot of work, isn't physically harmful, and no one has suffered physically from its absence.
So i say no.
Didn't Weinstein go to "Anger Management" classes?
Well a "sex addiction" clinic is more or less the same thing.
BTW, I don't think the "Anger Management" classes worked.
Of course, Harvey's never killed man.
That we know of.
Does the OED show a relationship between "Therapist" and "The Rapist"?
Not speaking as a lawyer (although I played one for 40 years), but as someone who had a friend go into 12 step group therapy (it was a thing in the mid 90s around here) I would say: Assume everything you say will sooner or later become common knowledge among your social circle.
In Harvey's case, of course, with pay for say journalism and Hollywood's need for a scapegoat, we're talking a whole magnitude greater multiplier effect. Without any legal research, I can safely predict a courtroom will be the only place where these conversations might not be admissible. But since we all agree the therapeutic effect being sought is on his business reputation, group therapy is the worst cure he could seek.
"Group therapy that is led by a medical professional is still under the privilege. Why would it not be? You're there for therapeutic treatment and it's supposed to be confidential."
I don't see how that would work. Typically the client/patient controls the privilege and can waive it. Who controls the privilege in a whole group of patients? Any one of them could decide to waive the privilege and blab to the media. Now having everyone sign an NDA might be one approach, but even in that case it is a mess: you will get leaks and not know who to sue for breach of the NDA. Even if you know who leaked, the damage has been done, and the best you can do is litigate and try to prove damages.
What would it mean for Harvey Weinstein to take "sex addiction rehab" seriously?
I would imagine something akin to the Ludovico Technique, where electric shock and other stimuli are used that cause him to curl into a whimpering ball the minute he thinks about any woman in a sexual nature.
He could demonstrate this to the jury by gauging his reaction while strapped in a chair, as a woman stands in front of him and begins unbuttoning her blouse. Successful therapy could be used to limit his prison time and demonstrate his newfound fitness to reenter polite society.
"Group therapy that is led by a medical professional is still under the privilege. Why would it not be? You're there for therapeutic treatment and it's supposed to be confidential.
I think we've all missed the larger point. Harvey in group describing what he did to beautiful actress after beautiful actress is going to undermine the ability of the rest of the group to get well.
He has to drop out for the good of the group.
The patient has to want to be cured.
Ken B said...
"There's probably no such thing as an opium addict. There is certainly no such thing as a sex addict."
There is a physiological case for the use of the term "addiction". Addictive substances mimic neurotransmitters. They operate on receptors in the brain. Because the brain is a feedback system, it adjusts itself by lessening the level of response to both the drug and the natural substance. Therefore, a higher dose of the drug is required, and the system is unbalanced in the absence of the drug. These two physiological mechanisms explain the behavioral changes associated with addiction; 1) tolerance - more drug is needed to obtain the same response.
2) withdrawal - when the drug is withdrawn, time is required for the receptor system to return to its normal functioning.
Opiates are the classic example of these phenomena, but there are others. It is hard to say what it would mean to be a sex addict. An irrational desire for sex is the normal state of the system.
Alternatively, drugs can block neurotransmitters. In that case, the brain responds by increasing the number of receptors. Same two symptoms.
When you get right down to it, there just aren't all that many 12-step programs where the first step is "Deny everything".
Doubtful that there is a physician leading the group sessions. More likely a "cured" sex addict turned counselor in the bullshit business. Theodore Dalrymple's "Romancing Opiates" is worth a read to see the good Doctor's views on "addiction"
Can you become addicted to the lottery? It's not a drug, it's not "physically harmful." Harvey's predilections have cause anguish to his family and "friends" anyway, if not himself, yet.
AA said:
1. There is a real thing that deserves the special label "sex addiction."
2. There is a cure for this thing, "sex addiction."
Everyone's dick to some extent. There's no analysis in just throwing that as an insult against Weinstein. For one thing, he deserves worse.
1>"Sex addict" is it a thing? Perhaps. I don't know. I'm only a pedestrian psychologist and i'm certainly not a psychiatrist or an expert on real or not real disorders.
He deserves worse than insults, agreed. He probably deserves prosecution and jail time. But he's a big rich leftwing bully and they tend to get away will all sorts of crimes. See Clinton.
2> Good!
I think he's probably a big phony who is hiding behind "sex addict" to cover for his crimes of a) Power wielding bully who uses his dick b) actual rape, sexual harassment and sexual assault.
Every time people talk about Harvey Weinstein and going to rehab
I think of Amy Winehouse and this song REHAB
I don't see how that would work. Typically the client/patient controls the privilege and can waive it. Who controls the privilege in a whole group of patients?
If Harvey Weinstein is being indicted for rape, hypothetically, and the D.A. seeks to put a witness from his group therapy up on the stand, Weinstein is the one who controls the privilege. It's his privilege, as part of doctor-patient confidentiality. The other people in group are not "some guy" or "some stranger" but rather agents of the doctor. They are helping with the therapy. It's the whole point of group therapy. As agents of the doctor, listening in and offering commentary is not a waiver of the privilege.
I mean, try calling the secretary who transcribed an attorney-client conversation as a witness and say that she's just "some stranger" and privilege is waived. She's an agent of the lawyer and privilege is still there. Same with nurses and doctor-patient privilege.
All my life I've been addicted to sex. It's been finding enablers that's been the big problem........CS Lewis said that we pray not to change God's mind about us but to change our mind about God........If Voltaire we're alive today , he would view the Church's struggle with perv priests with particular relish. I take that same relish and delight in watching Harvey squirm on the hook and in watching all his former friends and admirers in Hollywood try to distance themselves from him........Here's a few (sort of) kind words about Harvey. He did some real damage to some women, but for the most part this is a Punch & Judy show where the disputants knock each other about with pig bladders. I'm sorry to hear that Harvey made a bathrobe move on Gwyneth Paltrow and Eva Green, but I don't think that the trauma left them with PTSD. They seem like resilient people who can recover from the trauma. In my estimation, Harvey is worse than Weiner but a tad better than Ted Kennedy who died with his honors and reputation intact and a dead body on his scorecard.
Any one of them could decide to waive the privilege and blab to the media.
It's not a group privilege. It's an individual privilege, held by every member of the therapy team.
Of course somebody could blab to the media and do tremendous harm to Weinstein. That's why you might advise him not to do group therapy. But in terms of testimony in court? None of that is admissible.
Of course somebody could blab to the media and do tremendous harm to Weinstein. That's why you might advise him not to do group therapy
Seriously. Since there doesn't seem to be anyone with any principles in the group therapy situation. Since nothing can be kept secret. Since, they are already blabbling. Can't keep their damned mouth's shut.......Weinstein would be a fool to talk in a group therapy session.
He may be all sorts of other things, but a fool...I don't think so.
If they make you go to rehab (no no no) then just start talking about anything and everything else BUT for the reason you are there.
The woman who signs off on his successful completion of the program will come away with a contract for a reality show about a sex addiction rehab center and a drug resistant venereal infection.
This is how a lot of "treatment" goes:
Step 1. I observe that you have more sex than I do (drink more than I do, use drugs more than I do, smoke more than I do, watch more TV than I do).
Step 2. I characterize your behavior as an addiction.
Step 3. (A) You can agree with me (and in doing so "take rehab seriously").
Step 3. (B) You can disagree with me, in which case, you are "in denial".
There is no room in this for the option that my characterization ("diagnosis" ) to be wrong. There is no way to treat that assertion as a testable (falsifiable) hypothesis. It is an article of faith. In this and many other ways "medical science" is not science."
He probably arranged to go to group therapy with six porn stars who are looking to give up the porn buzz and break into legitimate theater. He's there for them.
He probably arranged to go to group therapy with six porn stars who are looking to give up the porn buzz and break into legitimate theater.
Hey, what a good idea for a movie ! Oscar Gold ! What fun to cast !
"What would it mean for Harvey Weinstein to take "sex addiction rehab" seriously?"
He would be factual and tell the truth (as he sees it) about what he did, and why, and how it all played out.
If he's not serious about his therapy, then he's not going to be confessing to anything.
The article concludes that he's "not serous" because he didn't confess to anything.
But it may be that he didn't confess to anything because he didn't trust the privacy and confidentiality of the group.
What would it take for anyone to take sex addiction rehab seriously.
Dust Bunny is right on target. I can't imagine how this can be called a "sex addiction". Where is the sex? Mostly, it just pervy stuff.
I think it's clear that his objective was not sexual gratification. He enjoyed the horror felt by his victims. His intention was to hurt people and cause them harm. He is a sadist.
I'm pretty sure that rehab is the wrong rx. It's just a PR move. The actual corrective would be public guillotining of his junk. Let him pee through a straw for the balance of his pitiful life until he takes the hint and eats a barrel.
In the meantime, the mob needs to reflect on who is going to make and distribute the next Shakespeare in Love.
- Krumhorn
...actually, it was Dickin'Bimbos.
- Krumhorn
It's my understanding the reason you can be 'addicted' to something that isn't a physical substance (such as sex) is that you're addicted to chemicals your own brain is producing. Doing the thing you're addicted to gives you a chemical high.
Example: people who pursue high-risk activities because they crave the adrenaline.
Or people who can't keep away from social media because they think they need that little hit of dopamine one gets when one gets the right positive social reward.
Supposedly addictive brains are different from other peoples', so hopefully we will soon have the technology to test this theory & know one way or the other if there is truth to it - and, if so, what can be done about it. Surely we can do better than "group therapy" (where people talk about what you say to other people and there's nothing you can do about it).
But I doubt that will "fix" what is wrong with people like Harvey Weinstein.
I'm addicted to making snarky remarks about Harvey Weinstein and his Hollywood friends. It has been over two hours since my last comment, but it's a minute by minute thing. Easy thread is another thread. With the support and love of everyone here, I'm hoping to make it to midnight. Unless there's a new revelation. .
He might want to conserve the "I found God" angle to petition for early release down the line. Initially he'll be like this..
Todd,
closest I saw was:
Girl with the Pony Tail on the Treadmill:
Ewww.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
At the office today I went into the Ladies' restroom, and then: Ewww.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
Two people were having sex in one of the stalls.
(pony-tail swish, pony-tail swish)
--
He may want to create a new character for this special occasion.
But the published allegation of Harvey splooging into a plant is so over the top (and distinct from anal), Laslo will have to dig deep.
What are the logistics of running a sex addiction clinic? It seems difficult. You house a bunch of sex addicts together, and then... what? They stop? You ask all of them to wear chastity belts? You keep them tranqued the whole time? Is there some kind of anti-Viagra out there? How do you keep your sex addiction clinic from becoming a sex addiction resort?
He’d take his sex therapy seriously if failure to make progress meant a session with Rose McGowan and a bull emasculator tool.
But it is quite obvious that Harvey takes sex seriously.
"But the published allegation of Harvey splooging into a plant is so over the top (and distinct from anal), Laslo will have to dig deep. "
Does a fern have an anus? If anyone knows, Laslo knows.
At least you don't have to offer a plant a speaking role.
Could he have believed he was fighting global warming?
After sex did HW tell the actresses,"Just leaf now" and chuckle at his wit?
Can you tell I'm tired of the HW is bad 24-7?
You seem to be implying:
1. There is a real thing that deserves the special label "sex addiction."
2. There is a cure for this thing, "sex addiction."
1) I don't have personal knowledge, but I'm open to the possibility, and I've read about cases that would certainly seem to fit under addiction -- compulsive behavior that the person doesn't really enjoy, severely interfere with other life activities, and can't quit despite good faith efforts to do so.
I do think there's a difference between somebody who simply enjoys something a lot and has a lot of opportunity to indulge, and somebody who is an actual addict. There's a difference between a gourmand and someone who is eating himself to death.
One thing I notice -- if he was an addict, he never seems to have dropped his standards just to get his fix. Lots of beautiful actresses and models have come forth, but no cleaning ladies or secretaries. So he could keep it in his pants just fine if the women were plain enough. (This point subject to revision if further details emerge.)
2) Is anything psychological really curable?
Blogger Zach said...
if he was an addict, he never seems to have dropped his standards just to get his fix.
--
Right. And with his money, he could have the best of the best in terms of sex outlets...certainly better than his hand and a plant.
You know..lead a respectable life, like Charlie Sheen.
But Harv seems to need a risk element...as well as an element of exhibition.
He seems to have a need to take people down a peg. His activities could be theorized as being good for business, in that they capture the attention of the talent, focus their minds, give them an idea of their place in the Scheme of Things. Maybe it makes them more tractable, easier to direct, less apt to throw star power tantrums.
Well..I guess he was more protected working within the world he controlled..until now.
So many celebs and pols are likely paying hush money to sex pros..
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